Check out episode two of “The Fleet Road Map” podcast, where Landre Eagleton, Director of Zero Emissions Consulting & Solutions for International® Truck and IC Bus®, breaks down the electric vehicle consulting process and why it’s so important that truck and bus fleets understand what to expect along their journey toward zero emissions.
Check out episode two of “The Fleet Road Map” podcast, where Landre Eagleton, Director of Zero Emissions Consulting & Solutions for International® Truck and IC Bus®, breaks down the electric vehicle consulting process and why it’s so important that truck and bus fleets understand what to expect along their journey toward zero emissions.
Fleet Equipment Host Jason Morgan:
Hi everyone. Welcome to the EV Fleet Roadmap, a Navistar podcast on your fleet's path to zero emissions. I'm Jason Morgan, your host, and today we're talking with Landre Eagleton Consulting and Solutions manager at Navistar. Landre, great to see you. Thanks for taking the time.
Landre Eagleton, Navistar Consulting and Solutions Manager:
Same here, Jason. Thank you.
Jason Morgan:
So we've been talking a lot about consulting and how this is a different approach and it's not just buying a vehicle, it's really partnering from a fleet perspective and the manufacturer perspective on a deeper level. So a lot of the times application drives vehicle requirements, right? I want it to meet my application. That's what we were refined for. Efficiency and productivity. What does that mean in an electric world? What applications make sense for EVs?
Landre Eagleton:
Yeah, right now, Jason, we've got a lot of really solid, really good use cases that we're experiencing in the marketplace right now, up and down the segment of trucks, whether it's medium duty where we're talking about drive van type applications out there where the trucks are doing a lot of stopping and going 130 miles or less on a daily basis. They sit overnight and be able to support overnight charging as well. School buses, another great example, very similar to drive bus application. If you think about it, a school bus perspective, it's really the best electrification opportunity that we have out there. I mean, the buses typically always drive less than 130 miles per day.
The route stays relatively consistent all year long. It's picking up kiddo from kiddo from bus stop to bus stop, and so you're able to maximize regenerative braking, extend the range of those particular vehicles, and after you drop the kiddos off in the afternoon, it just sits there overnight, right? It sits in the bus yard or bus barn, and so you've got an opportunity to overnight charge even at that point. So perfect application for electrification. When we're talking heavy duty, we see regional haul applications out there. Again, where you have a base depot, you're going from store to store 130 miles or less as well. So you got an opportunity to overnight charge again. Again, some really good use cases out there in the marketplace.
Jason Morgan:
Right? Yeah, I mean, even just touching on the school bus here for a minute too, I mean, we've heard that called kind of a beachhead for EVs, right? And a good place to start, a good place to learn. I know that you all have done a lot of bus, EV bus deployments as well. A lot of great learnings there. What do I need to know whether I'm operating medium duty, heavy duty, even in the school bus world, application is always specific to me. I know what I need, what my vehicles need to do, but what do I need to know to be able to have the conversation with you about EV?
Landre Eagleton:
That's a fair question. The regulatory environment right now, it's really accelerating the transition to EV. We see right now, obviously everyone knows California is leading that effort, but what we know for a fact, it's going to affect all of us at some point. So it's not a matter of if, but it's a matter of when. So that's the first reality check. But one of the most important things that we have to always do is as you engage in the conversation with the customer, understanding their specific applications. Understanding first and foremost, the routes that the vehicles are being used at, looking at their specific data, that's absolutely critical. Understanding their specific data.
Also getting a sense of what's your dwell time of your drivers? To get a sense on what times do you have an opportunity to charge battery electric vehicles overall. And then lastly, looking at the traffic flow in and out of the operation itself. That way you could figure out what is the best time to actually schedule those charges associated on a daily basis. So one of the takeaways that we always convey to customers, it's not a cookie cutter approach. It's really about your operations and your operations specifically.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Well, and I think that kind of reflects the commercial world now. I mean, we still build trucks to spec, right? But now this is just on a grander scale. You can't just take the equipment, you have to take the whole operation. One thing I did want to circle back on that you noted too, not just California, and I feel like that's a point of emphasis, right? Because it's a lot to see cars leading the way out there in a lot of ways. It could be easy for some fleets to look at that and go, well, "California is its own different world sometimes." But are you're consulting and rolling vehicles out with customers across the country.
Landre Eagleton:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And we see the regulatory environment changing, right?
Jason Morgan:
Yeah.
Landre Eagleton:
Even if you think you're resistant to what's going on in California, it is going to at some point affect you in your respective area. So we want to make sure that as we engage with customers and what their specific fleet operation needs are, that they're taking into account that, again, it's not a matter of if, but it's a matter of when. So perhaps you need to be proactive to be ahead of it, to be prepared and have the operations well suited.
Jason Morgan:
Right. One thing, another thing I want to go back to, you mentioned data driven. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because there's data everywhere. I've got data this, data that data, I don't know what to do with it. I got a lot of it. What are you looking for in the data?
Landre Eagleton:
The easiest way to explain to a customer is we have the ability to look at how that truck is being specifically used in your operation. The times of the day is being used, the average amount of distance that is being driven on a daily basis. You want to identify those specific routes currently right now that lends themselves for electrification, and that's where the opportunity, it's all about your data. It's about getting the visibility to your data.
Jason Morgan:
And that's something you can help fleets and customers with because I mean, there are some fleets that are very good at it and can go, "Here's where I'm looking at." And there are other fleets that they have it. There's a lot of data, but it's overload sometimes.
Landre Eagleton:
And we've got a team at Navistar that's able to support the customer wherever they are in that journey. However, whatever level of data that they have, we're able to support them, able to identify opportunities for them overall.
Jason Morgan:
So you mentioned the regulatory environment. I know that can kind of also go hand in hand with funding, but honestly, this is a really complicated landscape. I have no idea what's going on, and it's my job to keep an eye on this. Right? And it's a lot to work through. How do you all work through it too to make sure you're getting your customers what they need in terms of meeting regulation and maybe funding options to help out with this?
Landre Eagleton:
Yeah, it is complicated. Absolutely. I think the beauty of working with Navistar is that we have a team of individuals that the consultant is going to be engaging with directly to really provide the level of details specific to you and your respective state. What we know for a fact right now, in many states right now, even nationally, there's funding available for buses, funding for trucks, and there's also funding for infrastructure. Also, what people may not be aware of is sometimes there's funding from the utility company because they have a vested interest as well to get you the electric via your fleet as well.
Jason Morgan:
I see. That's cool. Yeah, because even in so far as where your fleet is located could impact funding opportunities, hearing that there are some utilities that want to play this game and be on the forefront and offer incentives, that's cool too.
Landre Eagleton:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. Now let's take another step back in the diesel world. Now, if I'm a fleet manager, I'm going to oversimplify this a little bit, but if I'm a fleet manager, I spec my trucks, I go to my finance guy, say, here's the order for the trucks we plan for the year. Here's the price. Let's sign off on this and get moving. It's like one or two people at the operation that is really making that. There's a process. Everybody expects it. They know it. Who makes the decision to go electric vehicles? This is a much broader decision. What does that look like?
Landre Eagleton:
We all used to know who was that go-to person at the company. That's no longer the case. Right now today, there are a number of key stakeholders at every company, and we've got to make sure we have the ability to work with those specific stakeholders. It could be a sustainability manager, finance manager, purchasing manager, fleet operations manager. And to a great extent right now, individuals that we find really important are the drivers. And understanding the driver's adoption is going to be critical to make sure that we're able to maximize the performance in the range of those vehicles.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. Two follow-ups there. First, the interesting one, sustainability manager. I mean, you rattled off a number of managers and all those ones, yeah, I've heard of, but sustainability manager is a new one. Are you finding that a lot of fleets are putting someone in charge of sustainability efforts for this?
Landre Eagleton:
Absolutely. Absolutely. But it spans the spectrum to the level of engagement, a level of involvement. We have a very specific instance where that was where we started our engagement with that particular company. It was with the sustainability manager. And as we continue to work with that sustainability manager, making sure that our product met their overall goals that they had, and they gave us the go ahead, then we transition to have that dialogue and discussion with the purchasing manager. And as we have that conversation with the purchasing manager, they have their goals, requirements, expectations. Once we're able to meet that, now perhaps you're talking to the finance manager, and in this specific instance, once we engage the finance manager, they had their very specific requirements on total cost of ownership.
Jason Morgan:
Right.
Landre Eagleton:
It was going to be a make or break type of decision overall with this individual. And they wanted a complete solution. They wanted a complete solution for now. When I say complete solution, I'm saying they wanted the truck, they wanted a charger, and they wanted a service provider as well. They want it all rolled up in a complete package before they were willing to go forward.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Well, and something that you bring up here too, and the sustainability manager is something we haven't really touched on either is now I'm looking at the large scope, not just, okay, I'm going to have zero emissions at the tailpipe, but now I want have zero emissions or carbon-neutral in my operation. So there's value, fleets are placing value on that. You want to see TCO on your equipment as well, and the ROI there, but for some fleets, placing that value on sustainability, understanding there's a cost there. But there's plenty of benefit. Drivers are another really interesting one because they do affect the operation of the vehicle, but you mentioned getting them involved on the front end and fair or not. I think in the commercial vehicle world, they've had a lot of technology pushed onto them. You look at automated manual transmissions, you look at ELDs and there's been kind of a contentious relationship there. What are you seeing in terms of bringing the drivers in on the front end? Is this more collaborative in the EV space with the drivers?
Landre Eagleton:
Not only is it more collaborative, but it has to be, right? You have to have the team engaged. If you want to maximize the extended range of the vehicles, you want to work with the drivers to make sure that there's a specific way how you drive this vehicle and be able to leverage the technology that's in the vehicle itself. So the feedback that we're getting with companies right now is if they're engaging the drivers, they're getting the type of adoption that they would expect. We're all naturally resistant to change. That's no difference. It's human nature. So if you address that upfront, let them become more comfortable, know what's coming. We've found that to be the most successful situation to go into.
Jason Morgan:
Because the electric vehicles are a lot of fun. You get behind them, it's a whole different world. You can talk all day about taking away the vibration, taking away the noise. Until you get in it and drive it, you don't really understand what that means. It's a different world.
Landre Eagleton:
Absolutely. And you've got to be comfortable with the quiet as well. And if you're accustomed being a diesel product, you're accustomed to hearing that diesel engine roar.
Jason Morgan:
That's the other thing. Know where you're in the RPM. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So the fleet, the decision is larger than just me or the finance person. Now I've potentially got a sustainability person involved. I want to bring in drivers. I'm talking to a lot more people on my side. And then I'm also looking down of, I'm working with you all as a manufacturer. There are utilities, I'm assuming your circle's broadening them too. How does this work? Do I have to then try to go out and have a external relationship with five, six, seven new people, or how does that consulting work?
Landre Eagleton:
Well, the beauty of the consulting process is that it's our intent and our goal to make the process as simplified as much as possible. So we like to serve as a single point of contact, and we'll effectively leverage all of those key points that you've identified. We'll be able to engage with the sustainability manager, we'll engage with the finance manager. We will engage with the fleet operations manager, driver training, but we'll also engage with utility companies in order to talk about infrastructure specifically. We'll help facilitate grant applications with the associated municipalities that are involved as well. So as your single point of contact, we can effectively be the go-to person to take care of it all for you. We know that's going to be critical. If it's overwhelming for you, then it just reduces the likelihood that you'll move forward.
Jason Morgan:
Well, and I feel like too, the utility side of it is so completely new. So I mean, you have the opportunity to work with my local utility, so I can still call you, and you can facilitate that relationship. Even help me make the connection there, even you all can help drive that project home, right? But it's hard to figure out that landscape, I feel like.
Landre Eagleton:
And I think the key critical item for our customers is to understand that we'll be facilitating the process. We won't necessarily own the process. So the customer and the company will continue to be able to make those final decisions. We won't be making decisions on your behalf, but we'll be facilitating you to be able to engage with the right people in the marketplace.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. So can you give me an example of how this works? Let's say in charging, installation, right? I'm planning the project, I'm planning my infrastructure. I want it to go to scale. From your all's point of view, what does that look like in terms of me, the customer working with the utility and working with you to get that project done?
Landre Eagleton:
Sure. It depends on what's your specific plan. So for instance, we have specific examples. If you're a company, we have a company right now that we're working with, I have been working with, they had 10 units in their fleet, and they were planning to electrify all 10 of those particular vehicles, but they wanted to transition that plan over a period of time, working with the infrastructure, all the work that they needed to do at their facility as well, as well as working with the utility company. So they started out with two vehicles, and then last year they transitioned and added a third vehicle. And as recently as September, we added another three vehicles. So they're at 80% of their total 10 that they were expecting. And in the very near future, they'll flex up until they get to the last two vehicles in their fleet. But it's a process and it's an individualized plan. Again, like I said earlier, it's not a cookie cutter process. It's a process that looks at your specific operations, your specific requirements, your specific plans, and then we work with you on developing and executing into that plan.
Jason Morgan:
You had the long view there right from the bat. So I assume that's me as a customer working with you. And going back to your point of which vehicles can I electrify? Oh, I can electrify all 10. That sounds fantastic. But at that point, rolling it out, the utility has to know we're going to 10, it's not tomorrow, go to 10, but it's in a couple of years, go to 10. I still need to be able to get there, right?
Landre Eagleton:
Yeah. We use a word called future-proofing, right? And that's really working with the customer to understand that as we employ these plans over a longer period of time, let's take the actions right now to support it. You don't want to break up concrete multiple times in an operation. We want to build a plan that's going to get you there working with the key stakeholders, and one of those stakeholders may be the utility company. So we'll work with them directly to get there. And I think what's also critically important is that there's going to be some instances that you may have decided to launch immediately all 10 vehicles, but as we get into the consulting process, working with the utility company, we'll come to the determination that perhaps the facility won't support 10 now it may only support five, and then we'll transition over a period of time, and we see that happening quite often as well.
Jason Morgan:
Okay. So how do you then talk about, just in general, how do you prepare people for this timeline, right, because right now the timeline is I buy a truck, you put it on the order boards. I know when the truck's rolling off the line and then it rolls in, but this is more than that.
Landre Eagleton:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's a concerted effort. We try to make sure the timeline associated with us building a vehicle right now for a customer is a lot shorter than perhaps the timeline could be from an infrastructure standpoint. It could vary ... If you think about your local contractors and pulling permits with your local municipality, that could be six months, could be a year, it could be 18 months depending on what the infrastructure plan is in particular. So as we work with you from a consulting standpoint, we want to lay out a specific plan over a specific timeline and work towards that. But also being flexible because things change. If we initially got into it and we thought it was going to be 12 months, then all of a sudden now it's 18 months because the local municipality behind with permitting, we work with our internal sources to perhaps change their builds schedule for that vehicle and make sure it's ready. The last thing we want is the vehicle to be landed on the customer's facility and not having the charging infrastructure set up.
Jason Morgan:
No, for sure. And it's kind of interesting as we make this transition and work with new stakeholders in the utility and energy world too, because I think fleets, large fleets, even some mid-size fleets always had to pull through. You could pull through, you could get things done. If you're a large enough fleet, you could work with who you need to get through, and that demand will pull it through and it'll get done. When you go out into a larger world, there's other people that are also in line that also have big demands and requests. So having that support, being able to work with a team and not just being alone shouting into the void sometimes it could feel like I imagine is important. Okay. So you're out there, you're talking with a lot of customers, you're consulting with a lot of people. I want to be a good partner in this, right? So who's the perfect customer? What do I need to bring to the table in this conversation? What do you want me to know? Or what are some things, the advice for me in this process?
Landre Eagleton:
Yeah. I think one of the most critical thing is making sure a company does their homework. Understanding do they have chargers currently available? From an interoperability standpoint, do those chargers work with the equipment that you're bringing on board? And that's going to be one of the critical pieces there. Understanding whether or not you need flexible charging solutions to be able to support you. If there's some infrastructure bill that's going to take the 18 months that we've often here in the marketplace, making sure that there's an interim flexible charging solution that you have available to be able to support you as you ramp up into the operation. Because the last thing you want to do is have a scenario where it is interrupting your overall operational flow. That's the last thing, because then the driver engagement and the driver adoption is going to be challenged at that point. So just doing your homework, making sure that you look at and take that all into consideration.
Jason Morgan:
Right. Yeah. Understanding the vehicles, you're getting the charging plan, to your point, interoperability, which is a very difficult word to say, but basically it means that if you plug the truck in-
Landre Eagleton:
It works.
Jason Morgan:
Yeah.
Landre Eagleton:
The charger.
Jason Morgan:
Yeah. They'll talk to each other.
Landre Eagleton:
Talk to each other.
Jason Morgan:
Right, right, right. And charge. Perfect. Okay. Well, I mean, how do we start this conversation? If I'm a fleet and I want to get ahold of you, what's the best way to reach out?
Landre Eagleton:
Start with your dealer, reach out to your dealership. They are aware of our level of support and assistance we can offer, and then we'll go from there.
Jason Morgan:
Awesome. Awesome. Landre, thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate you educating me on everything that's going on. It was great.
Landre Eagleton:
Thank you.
Jason Morgan:
Thank you for watching the EV Fleet Roadmap, a Navistar podcast on your fleet's path towards zero emissions. I'm Jason Morgan, and we'll see you next time.