Comparing SSI and SSDI with Amy Bellhorn

Welcome to Season 1, Episode 2 of Winning Isn't Easy: Navigating Your Social Security Disability Claim. In this episode, we'll dive into the complicated topic of "Comparing SSI and SSDI" with special guest, Amy Bellhorn.

Join host Nancy L. Cavey, a seasoned attorney specializing in disability claims, and special guest, attorney Amy Bellhorn, as they break down the basics of SSI and SSDI in a clear, easy-to-follow discussion. Together, they explore the key similarities and differences between the two programs, and share essential insights you need to know. In this episode of Winning Isn’t Easy, they cover topics such as eligibility for both programs, application processes, how benefits are calculated, and much more.

To connect with attorney Amy Bellhorn's firm, visit www.bellhornlawfirm.com, or call 727-822-7121.

Whether you're a claimant, or simply seeking valuable insights into the disability claims landscape, this episode provides essential guidance to help you succeed in your journey. Don't miss it.


Listen to Our Sister Podcast:

We have a sister podcast - Winning Isn't Easy: Long-Term Disability ERISA Claims. Give it a listen: https://wiedisabilitypodcast.buzzsprout.com


Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

LINK TO YOUR RIGHTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY: https://mailchi.mp/caveylaw/your-rights-to-social-security-disability-benefits

FREE CONSULT LINK: https://caveylaw.com/contact-us/


Need Help Today?:

Need help with your Social Security Disability claim? Have questions? Please feel welcome to reach out to use for a FREE consultation. Just mention you listened to our podcast.

Review, like, and give us a thumbs up wherever you are listening to Winning Isn't Easy. We love to see your feedback about our podcast, and it helps us grow and improve.

Please remember that the content shared is for informational purposes only, and should not replace personalized legal advice or guidance from qualified professionals.

Transcript

Amy Bellhorn [00:00:00]:
 Foreign.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:00:10]:
 Hey, I'm Nancy Cavey, a Florida Social Security welcome to Winning Isn't Easy. Before we get started today, I've got to give you a legal disclaimer. This podcast is not legal advice. The Florida Bar association says I have to say this. So now that I've said it, nothing will ever prevent me from giving you an easy to understand overview of the Social Security disability claims process, the games that are played, and what you need to know to get the Social Security disability benefits you deserve. So off now. Today we're lucky to be joined by our special guest attorney Amy Bellhorn, who's going to be joining us in discussing, comparing and answering common questions that we get about Supplemental Security Income, SSI and Social Security Disability Benefits. SSDI so I want to introduce Amy.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:01:02]:
 At the age of 15, she decided to become an attorney as a voice for the injured and the disabled as a result of being involved in a serious accident. So she brings to the table her understanding of what it's like be disabled and not having your voice heard. She has a passion and a desire to help others as an attorney and as a result, after he graduated from fsu, she went to law school. She went to Stetson University College of Law School here in the St. Petersburg area and graduated in 20 I'm sorry in 2000. She has served in a number of capacities for legal nonprofit organizations, worked at several law firms, and then she went out on her own in 2006 and established her own law firm. She's been recognized by Legal Directorate, recognized with Client Choice Awards, and recognized by Martindale Hubbell as being a fantastic attorney. So I want to welcome Amy, who is a Social Security practitioner and to whom I will refer cases, especially SSI cases.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:02:19]:
 So Amy, I would be asking you at least 50 questions and if people have any questions at the end of this they can go to your website at www.call you at 822-7121 or email you at bellhornellhornlawfirm.com There'll be lots of ways to follow up with you for any questions that we haven't been able to ask today. So we're going to take a quick break before we get started and then we are going to get going with these 15 common questions that we all get as Social Security and SSI attorneys.
 
 Speaker C [00:03:04]:
 Filing for Social Security Disability or has your claim been denied already? Either way, you require a copy of your rights to Social Security Disability benefits, which will cover everything you need to know about the Social Security disability claims process. Request your free copy of the book@kvlaw.com today.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:03:29]:
 Welcome back to Winning Isn't Easy. We're going to jump in with some of the basics. So Amy, explain to us what is ssi?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:03:37]:
 Well, first of all, thank you so much for allowing me to be here. It is such a pleasure to do so and I'm happy to talk about ssi. So SSI is Supplemental Security Income. It provides monthly payments to adults and children who have income and resources below specific financial limits and who meet one of the following three criteria. First, they're age 65 or older two they are blind or three, they have a medical condition that keeps them from working which is expected to last for one year or results in death. This is the one that we'll primarily be talking about today. So for this one, the SSI benefits or disability benefits for those who have not paid into Social Security, disability insurance benefits, SSDI or have not paid enough into the insured. As I said, it is need based and you must be approved on a medical and non medical basis.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:04:34]:
 For the medical basis you have to have the you have to have a medical condition that meets the definition of disability under Social Security. However, it's unlike workers compensation, veterans disability, short term disability, long term disability and other types of programs here there's a very specific and strict definition. The definition is that your physical and or mental condition has lasted or is expected to be to last for at least one year or to result in death and it must prevent you from working not just at your past job but any type of job. Thus, it is important that if a person is thinking of applying for SSI as soon as they believe that their disability will prevent them from working for one year or more, that they use them. If you are approved on a medical basis, that's wonderful. Then you will have an interview with SSA to provide them information on income, assets and resources just like when they apply. And they'll have to be approved on a non medical basis as well. SSA has a SSI pamphlet in case anyone may want to look at it.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:05:43]:
 It's online or you can call SSA at 1-800-772-1213 and it has detailed information but hopefully we'll be able to get through a lot of the most common questions today on ssi.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:05:56]:
 Well Amy, as you well know, we have situations where a person has never worked at all in the course of their life. For example, they may have been married for many years and never went into the workforce or on the other hand we will have people who have worked and they've become insured by working at least 10 out of the last 20 quarters, but then they lose their insurance status because they wait too long to apply for Social Security disability benefits or they never had enough quarters. Is that your experience with SSI claimants?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:06:35]:
 Yes, exactly. If they've never worked, if they're under the amount of being fully insured, all of those things. However, unfortunately, unlike for SSDI where you don't have income, asset and resource limits, for SSI you have the income, asset and resource limits that you have to be under. So even if you've not worked and are not fully insured, in one of those examples, you do need to meet those criteria, like for an individual under $2,000 a month for a couple, $3,000 a month for income, asset and resource limits, just as a general overview. So that would be one of the concerns is even if they might not meet those fully insured status, they still need to be under those income limits, if you will.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:07:24]:
 Are there any other differences between SSI and ssdi?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:07:29]:
 Oh yes. So for Social Security disability benefits, as we had said, those you essentially pay into Social Security through employment for a certain amount of time, you have to pay into the system to be eligible for the benefit for at least five years and you have to be fully insured. And for those benefits you still have to meet the same definition of a physical or mental impairment that lasts for one year or more or results in death. Just like for ssi here though for ssdi, those income, asset and resource limits that are applicable for ssi, not for ssdi, you can have your however much money in the bank, maybe like Bill Gates. So that part is not looked at. You don't have the non medical criteria on your application. You don't have the interview after you've been approved if you have been for the medical portion. So those are like the main differences.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:08:35]:
 So I often asked, is my husband's income counted for ssd? We own a business, is that counted? You know, we have investments, we own real estate. Is that counted? And obviously we're talking about an SSDI case. None of those assets are material. But if it's an SSI case, any one of those could disqualify the person for eligibility for ssi. So the question I get a lot is can I be eligible for both? And what's that answer?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:09:12]:
 Yes, you can give both SSDI and ssi. It's called a concurrent case. I have it. I've had it happen a lot for people. There are some things that come with it, but yes, you can be eligible and be able to receive both SSDI and ssi.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:09:29]:
 Great question. Yeah. So when we're interviewing clients and deciding whether we're applying for SSDI and ssi, we ask obviously, what's the date last insured. And if they're insured, we generally aren't filing an SSI claim. But if we have a period of time in which they were insured and lost their insured status, then we're going to apply for both SSDI and ssi, right?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:09:52]:
 Yep.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:09:53]:
 Okay, so let's talk about what are the ways to apply for ssi?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:09:58]:
 Excellent question. One of the things that I hear a lot of is how people are so scared and fearful of the process. They don't know how to apply. They're not feeling well, they have pain, fatigue, and they're just not feeling like they're able to do it. Where to go, what to do. So happy to be able to provide some overview and easy tips on how to do it. There's three basic ways on how to do it. The first, you can set up a phone interview.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:10:25]:
 You can call SSA at 1-800-772-1213. Magic number of the day for SSA. And when you call them, it's a highly automated system, so don't get frustrated. Maybe play your favorite piece of music or have a book or a magazine handy. You might be on hold for a little while or more. And then when you get a human being, you can just ask them that you'd like to set up an interview to apply for ssi. There's no set time for those appointments. Sometimes it's two weeks, sometimes it's two days, sometimes it's longer.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:10:58]:
 And then you'll have a scheduled date and time for a phone interview to apply for ssi. When you have that phone interview, they are on average 35 minutes. They can go longer or shorter, depending upon how much information you have ready, handy and available. Also, if it's ssi, it's usually longer. And if you could be ready earlier, because sometimes they call early and sometimes they call later. You just never know. And also, if you have a minute phone, make sure you have enough minutes. You don't want it to run out in the middle of it or sometime and then they're gone and they haven't processed your application.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:11:36]:
 So make sure your phone is charged. Make sure if it's a minute phone, you have enough minutes. All those types of things sound stupid, but it happens all the time. Be prepared. And the other way to do it, out of the two other ways is online. You can go to www.ssa.gov. so there it has. It says apply for SSI or apply for SSDI.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:11:57]:
 And you can just click on that and it'll come up. For the most part, it's pretty easy. You can have your information ready, handy and available. Some of it you'll need to have like your simple things you probably know in your head. Age, education, work experience, where you went to school. A contact information is somebody that you know that knows your health information and your doctor's contact information, including medications that you take. Just some of those types of things make it a little bit easier as you go. If you do it online at ww.ssa.gov make sure if you exit at any time to hit save, write down your RE entry number.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:12:38]:
 If you don't do that and you click it down, it's gone. I hear it all the time from people and you can't go back and get it. Yeah. So make sure you hit the save and then write down or print out that reentry number. If and when you want to go back, you just enter your reentry number and there it all is. And you can take breaks, you can do whatever you need to do. If you need to elevate your legs or take medication or take a nap, you can come back to it. So it's wonderful in that way if you do it online.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:13:10]:
 However, sometimes for SSI and or child's ssi, you still have to. If you do it online, hear from SSA either on the phone or in person. Usually on the phone's fine, where they have to follow up sometimes on the financial information. Not all of that. They're getting better over the past few years of getting that part online too. The final way to apply is in person. You can go to SSA's offices. If you don't know which office, you can go to ssa.gov locator L O C A T O R and you can put in your zip code.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:13:47]:
 It's a zip code locator. And that will allow you to see which office is by you. It'll have the address, the hours and information. If you don't want to wait when you go, you can call the 1-800Number Magic Number of the Day for SSA, 1-800-772 and you can schedule an appointment at your local SSA office. Sometimes by the time they answer your phone, you could have already been seen at ssa. But whatever works best for you because sometimes with a person's health Conditions, it's difficult to sit there and wait. So if you want to go and apply in person or at least start the process, they can answer questions and be there and help you. And so those are the three main ways.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:14:28]:
 They have a new way too, or newer where you can like ask for them to contact you and you can do that online and then they'll call you a little bit later. So sometimes people do that too, but still it's by going online to www.ssa.gov. so those are basically the ways to apply and just be prepared. And you can take breaks if you do it online and be thorough and honest and just explain your conditions the best you can to help have someone else understand what it feels like to be you.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:15:00]:
 Well, there's a fourth way, and I prefer that way. And that is for them to retain a lawyer like yourself or me, because we will actually work with them in completing the form and doing it in a way that I think does a better job explaining a person's disability and their inability to do their own occupation or any occupation. So I find that there are many mistakes that can be made when the person tries to complete their own application. They can come back and bite them, if you will. So let's remember the fourth. And that's why you hire an attorney or a representative to make sure that that application is filled out completely accurately and tells a story of your entitlement, your benefits, most certainly. So Amy, you and I both know that most cases are denied at the initial application stage. I think the statistics are 66% of claims are denied.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:16:02]:
 And then you have to file what's called a request for reconsideration. It goes back to disability determinations. The state agency that makes these determinations at the first two stages and two thirds of the claims generally get denied, then we have to file they request for a hearing that gets us in front of the judges. So I know this is, I basically am very frank with my clients and I say it's a pain in the ass and it is. But I want clients to understand that neither you or I are in charge of this process or the timing of the process. Is there anything more about filing an appeal if your denied that I didn't cover.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:16:46]:
 That was a, I mean an excellent, excellent explanation and description. I think people coming in with those expectations and being aware that most client or most cases are denied and that most do end up at the hearing if they haven't hired an attorney, which is the most helpful because as you said, including for appeals, we would make sure that the appeal paperwork is filled out and it has to be done within 60 days from the date of the denial. The date of the denial is in the upper right hand corner of that denial letter from ssa. And you get five days from mail or it would go to their Social Security account or you get both. And so you have to do it within a certain time frame. If you don't, your case will be dismissed unless there is good cause. So it's important to make sure that you fill out the correct paperwork. If you don't have an attorney and it's the request for reconsideration or request for hearing, depending upon what stage it's at.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:17:46]:
 Disability report form form 3441 and the authorization to disclose medical information form SSA 827. So it's making sure all the forms are there within the time frame. And if they had questions and they don't have an attorney to call SSA at that magic number or going online or going in person, but an attorney would make sure it's within the time frame. And if it has already passed, we can sometimes ask what's called for good cause request if certain criteria have been met and know how to do that and look to see if that's possible because that's what happens sometimes people don't realize they missed the deadline. And so those are some other things to maybe look out for too.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:18:33]:
 So my advice to clients is never give up. Never give up, never give up. But at some point, if the claim has been denied, particularly at the request reconsideration stage and you're heading into the hearing stage, if you have not hired an attorney at that point, you definitely should because you don't want to be going into a hearing situation not knowing what it is you have to prove to get your benefits. And we'll talk about that in our next session. But in the meantime, let's take a quick break.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:19:20]:
 Foreign.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:19:24]:
 Welcome back to Bidding Amy. Let's talk about the overall process of an SSI claim and what SSI applicants need to know.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:19:35]:
 Certainly, as you had discussed initially, first it's the initial stage, which can take about three to six months for SSA to process. That's what they say on their website. I will generally say once in a while it can be much less than that. Those are usually more the Compassionate Care Allowance cases where most of those people have like end stage renal disease or something that's on the Compassionate Care Allowance list. So it's like fast passed at Disney World. So it goes really Fast and they get approved. Those are rare. Exactly.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:20:13]:
 So even though ssa, I rarely see cases even at initial that take that long. I would say sometimes they're a year, year and a half. And the reality is sometimes people get so overwhelmed at the fact that they don't have a decision, they get very upset and depressed and frustrated. But as you said, we don't have control over that unless there's some ways that they meet criteria to have it expedited, which is possible but rare. So if that's not one of the things, you just have to wait for your decision during that time, continue getting medical treatment, talking to your doctors openly and honestly, making sure they understand your conditions, take medications, write down information you have about any side effects to the medications, and if you get denied appeal within that time frame, the next stage is the request for reconsideration. Like we talked about. That's all. Paperwork as well can take a little bit around the same time, no specific time frame.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:21:20]:
 The next stage as you said, is in front of the hearing or sorry, it's in front of an administrative law judge. And as you said, that is most of the time if someone hasn't gotten an attorney, if they may want one, it's really crucial because the attorney has so many things to look for, like making sure all the medical records and non medical records are up to date, having all of those reviewed, possibly doing a pre hearing brief, going over the types of things that will be asked of you, of the claimant, the client and possibly any other witnesses talking to the judge, having potentially opening closing statements, potentially expert witnesses that they will have, such as a vocational expert, such as a medical expert being able to cross examine them based on the medical records. So there's so much that attorneys do and there's so much that happens at the hearing, making sure that person is informed, comfortable and ready for that process. Because sometimes just not knowing what's going to happen can be overwhelming, especially with a health condition, pain, fatigue, whatever's going on. And it helps to put the person at ease. If the decision comes back at the hearing, it's fully favorable, then it's wonderful the person has been approved. Now remember, for SSI they still have the non medical basis. So if they're approved, they'll then after the fully favorable decision at the hearing level or if it's earlier, they'll get a notice of award.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:22:53]:
 And if it's for ssi, they still have an interview with ssa. It's pretty brief though for the most part, but it depends and they'll go over income, assets and resources. They'll also ask about other people that live in the house. They'll ask about your living situation, including if you pay rent or not if you live in someone's home. So it'll be a full basis of questions and it's all done by phone. They will either says a newer thing over the last few years, they'll either put that in your notice of award letter or after you get your fully favorable decision if you receive one, and it'll have a date and time. Now they haven't asked you first if that's convenient. So if you get it and it's not convenient, make sure you call in advance as early as possible to change that if it is there.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:23:39]:
 Again, just like with the phone interview potentially for applying, make sure you have minutes, if it's a minutes phone, and make sure you answer all of their questions. They sometimes call early, they sometimes call late. So be ready and available. And if there's something that you don't know when they ask, make sure you follow up with them and provide them that information. Once they have everything, they'll process it and they'll see if you can also be approved on a non medical basis for SSI once you have. If you do so, then you will get information about how much your monthly payment will be as well as Medicaid information too.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:24:20]:
 So unfortunately, my experience across the United States has been that it's taking at least a year for a claims examiner to be assigned to looking at the initial application. And that's just the assignment. It can take a month or more for them to make a decision. If it's not favorable, then you've got 60 days to file a request for reconsideration. It goes back to DDS. That can take eight months to even 10 months. And then if that gets denied, I'm seeing it taking five months to eight months to get a hearing in front of a judge. So again, none of us like these time frames.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:24:58]:
 But you need to be patient and persistent in the course of filing a claim and proceeding on that claim. So Amy, what's the difference in proof from an SSDI claim and an SSI claim?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:25:11]:
 Yeah, great question. So for ssdi, as we talked a little bit about at the beginning, you have to be fully insured. So you have to have paid through your employment money into Social Security if you will, and have enough credits. And if a person's not sure, they can always find out their date of last insured from Social Security by calling that 1-800-772-1213 number, for instance, and finding out their date of last insurance. Essentially that's like when your credits expire and you have to have your health conditions. I won't go into all that but I'll say for SSDI you have to be fully insured and for SSI you don't have any type of, you can have never worked or not have enough credits for ssi. So that'd be the main difference for.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:26:02]:
 Yeah, the way I explain it is for SSDI you have to be in an insured status and for SSI you have to meet certain asset income and resource limitations. So I think that's an easy way to understand the difference. And of course now the million dollar question is how are those SSI benefits calculated?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:26:22]:
 Yeah, it's so important. So SSI has a set rate that generally for the cost of living each year has an adjustment. And so for 2024 this year it's 943amonth for an individual and 1415, 1415 for a couple. And then SSA says for the cost of living adjustment starting in January 2025 it'll be 967 per month for an individual and 1450 per month for a couple. However, the amount may be lower based on the income. Certain family members income, your living situation, other factors. I see those things regularly and so I just want to kind of make sure people know that because sometimes I think going in and if they feel hope and assume they're going to win, they sort of calculate that full amount and that may or may not be the case. So they have to understand that SSA looks at specific things, they count specific things that may or may not be looked at as income and resources and things.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:27:32]:
 And they all have definitions. So that number could go down unfortunately depending upon their calculations. And that's part of their SSA interview for the non medical basis and that's what they're looking at to determine how much that amount will be for the individual or couple.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:27:50]:
 So then how is that different from SSDI in terms of the amount of benefits?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:27:55]:
 Yeah, so SSDI is that person's paid money into the system and depending upon how much money they paid in, depending upon how long it's been, is reflective of how much they'll give back. It's kind of like that person, if they're found disabled at one of the stages and being approved, it's kind of like taking their retirement out early, if you will. So it's not a set rate like SSI and it depends on how much they've worked and how much money they've paid into the system. And if the case, if they haven't been reviewed and they continue receiving ssdi, then it will just go into like their full retirement. So it sort of rolls over, if you will. But the cases can be reviewed more common for younger people 49 and under and sometimes people that are a little bit older, it's a little more rare as they get to like a little like 62 or set, especially in your early retirement ages and things. But it's still something to keep being aware of because if the case has been reviewed then they can see if that person may still meet the definition of disability or not.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:29:20]:
 So as an aside, I will have clients who are struggling financially, we've applied for SSDI and then they want to apply for early retirement. And what I say to these clients is look for the period of time from you stop working until the time you decide to collect your early retirement. We're going after your full Social Security benefits based on your earnings record. But when you take that early retirement, you're probably going to get a reduction of about 25% of your Social Security benefits over your lifetime. So I understand you need the money financially, but now from the time you start collecting your Social Security retirement forward, what we're after is the difference between what you would get in SSD benefits and those early retirement benefits. So we can go after both. It's just obviously those benefits, SSD benefits after you've are collecting early retirement, are going to be small because they're going to be the difference between those two numbers. And you can find out what those numbers are by checking your account@www.ssa.gov.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:30:24]:
 amy, I'm always asked this, do I get medical benefits if I'm awarded SSI and what am I eligible for?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:30:32]:
 Yeah, in most states an SSI recipient will automatically get Medicaid. So that's a huge deal. Especially if you don't have health insurance, you may not be able to get medical treatment. And so if approved for SSI medically and non medically to be able to get Medicaid is a really important and wonderful thing.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:30:55]:
 So yeah. So one of the things that clients will always ask me, well, if I get ssi, do I get any retroactive benefits? The answer to that is no. But. But you automatically get your Medicaid benefits if you live in the, in the right state?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:31:10]:
 Yes, automatically, yeah.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:31:14]:
 So what's the difference between medical benefits if you're awarded ssdi, how does that work?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:31:20]:
 Yeah, for ssdi it's not Medicaid, it'd be Medicare and it's after a wait period. So it's a two year wait period. But I want to scare people because there's some really good things that can potentially go with that with your past due benefit and such. But I don't want to confuse people and go over all that. But I'll just say for ssdi, it's Medicare and that information, if the person is approved, will be in your notice of award letter. It'll explain that and then they'll follow up with the center for Medicare and Medicaid and get all that information. So it's wonderful too.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:32:02]:
 So basically there's a five month waiting period. So if you're found to be disabled January 1st of 2024, you would not get benefits for January, February, March, April, May, and your benefits would start June.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:32:16]:
 Exactly.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:32:16]:
 For Medicare purposes, you have to do that five month waiting period and then collect benefits for 24 months. So in essence there's a 29 month period of time where you would not have medical coverage. And of course, if you can get on your spouse or significant other's group insurance, that's important, or get out into the open market to get some insurance because there will be this gap of coverage just built into the Social Security system.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:32:48]:
 Exactly. And sometimes as you're saying, like those cases at initial level and, or at reconsideration level and even a hearing level can take so long. One of the positives is while waiting for that, sometimes they waited all that time that once approved they've passed that two year wait period for Medicare, which I have happen a lot. So you win the case if it is approved and the person is already eligible for Medicare because they passed that wait period. So it's exciting. They might not even know it's happened. But that's one of the positives of while they're waiting. And so it could be positive in that way that they not only accrued more money for a potential past due benefit, but they also get Medicare for ssdis.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:33:36]:
 So it's one of the good things of having it take a while sometimes.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:33:40]:
 And one of the things that folks need to understand is that once the claim has been decided, Social Security isn't going to speak to us about the amount of the back benefits. They're not going to deal with us about Medicare issues. You're actually going to have to deal with that on your own. And I know that's a pain in the rear end, but they don't want to talk to U.S. lawyers or representatives after that point. Got it. Okay, let's take a break and we will be coming back and talking about can you work while you're getting ssi?
 
 Speaker C [00:34:15]:
 Struggling with your Social Security disability case? The right attorney can make all the difference. Get our booklet the key to hiring a great attorney for your Social Security disability case. Discover how to find an experienced attorney attorney who will fight for your rights and navigate the process with ease. Don't leave your future to chance. Request your free copy@kvlaw.com today and ensure you have the expert support you deserve.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:34:46]:
 Welcome back to Winning Isn't Easy. So, Amy, I get this question all the time. Can I work while I'm getting ssi?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:34:54]:
 Yeah, you can. However, there are special rules for SSI to make it possible for you to work and receive your SSI payment. However, if you do, you first of all need to let SSA know at that special magic number or going in person. And there's. There's some things that could happen, though, if, if you're earning more money, your SSI could go down. So it's important to be aware of that. And sometimes when that happens, for a certain period of time, you can lose your ssi. Yeah.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:35:33]:
 And people don't realize that because then I'll get calls after they do that, after like a year, and they go, I lost my ssi. What do I do now?
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:35:40]:
 That's too late to ask.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:35:42]:
 Yeah. It's so disheartening and saddening. So it's so great to have this conversation and inform people and let them know. There's also a pamphlet that SSA put out if anyone may be interested in checking it out, called Working While Disabled. How can we help? And it has information online or you can call that magic number or get it at your local office. But if you ever have questions, call SSA first on something like that and discuss it with them. Be aware of what can happen, because sometimes it's too late once it's happened. You can't just reinstate it reapply.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:36:21]:
 And they really do look at how much you're making. So if that check is a certain amount and you depend on it for rent and other things, and if you're working sometimes it can then go down. It's a balancing act. So it's important to be aware, get informed, and then feel comfortable and make those decisions so you can learn. But there's special rules. Yeah.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:36:40]:
 So that leads us to the obvious question, and that is, how often does SSA check your assets?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:36:46]:
 Yes. So they by law have to do a review of all the SSI cases and check to make sure that income asset resource information is up to date. They also look to see are you getting the right amount of money? And there's no set time frame, so it's sort of random, I'll say that, say it like that. But they do do it. And again this is for the non medical portion. If and when they do, which they will at some point, they will let the person know you'll get a letter in the mail or something and they'll probably contact you as well to ask some of those same types of questions. On income asset resources, maybe you're living with someone now and you weren't before, maybe you were paying rent before and you aren't. And so they have certain things that are countable income and some, and resources and some things that aren't, for instance.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:37:39]:
 And so with that they'll take all those factors in, just like when you were approved the first time non medically and they'll see if what you're currently getting is correct or not. But they do under law review those ssi, income asset and resources to see that asset test. And if you're getting a certain amount, if it's correct or not.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:37:59]:
 So, so what folks need to understand is, and we want to make sure that everybody's clear about this, is you can meet the disability test and be disabled for Social Security purposes, but if you don't or no longer meet the asset test, your disability doesn't matter. So you've got to meet both the disability test and the asset test.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:38:23]:
 Exactly. For ssi.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:38:24]:
 Definitely right for ssi. So what happens, Amy, if I inherit money or property? Because I see that a lot.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:38:32]:
 Yes. So if a person inherits property or money, it can be counted as income. And so if it does, there's certain ways to look at it. If a person accepts it or not, depending upon the value of it, the amount of money or property, and if it is counted as income, if it then makes it over the $2,000 limit for an individual, then unfortunately that person could be ineligible for SSI and no longer receive benefits. There's some other things that go with it. It can get a little complicated about what people do with things, but overall if a person has that happen, yes, it can be counted as income or it could. And then if so they might be ineligible. Also if there is that type of change, it's important to report it to ssa.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:39:27]:
 They have certain reports. So when a person is approved, including non Medically they get a little brochure and it says when they have to report things and what things they have to report. And if they don't report it and it's found out later, there also could be a penalty unfortunately. So it's important to report those things too as a side note.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:39:51]:
 So adherences can be protected with things like special needs trusts. And so if you know that someone is going to gift you money or give you an or request money or property to you in a will, you and they should be talking to a wills and estate attorney about how they can set up various instruments, legal instruments, to protect that money or inheritance or property from being counted towards your asset limit for ssi. So there are ways that this can be done retroactively after the fact can be much more difficult, if not impossible.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:40:37]:
 Yeah, it's so wonderful that those things are in place and the Florida statutes were allowed to have a special needs trust. And when done well and correctly it allows when those inheritance happen or maybe they get a big amount of money or something for a car accident or other, many things that can happen that they can still keep their SSI and they can spend that money for instance with the special needs trust for certain reasons, if you will. So yes, there are special things like special needs trust that when done at the right time and correctly, it can be able to keep the SSI or while having those things happen and protected in all ways. Definitely.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:41:22]:
 Amy is an estates attorney, so she knows all about that. So my last question is what can happen if Social Security finds out that you no longer meet the asset test but you've collected Social Security? Is it all copacetic or what happens?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:41:42]:
 So if you're collecting SSI and your accountable resources exceed that asset limit, the $2,000 for an individual, 3,000 for a couple, unfortunately you could potentially be suspended from the program and have to repay the money that's over that amount. There's some things, as I said before, that don't count as income or resources. So it needs to be looked at if it is one of those that's counted or not. And then one of the other concerns with that would maybe be if they haven't reported a change that they should have reported, that it could potentially be a penalty as well. I've really rarely seen that happen. However, it's important for people to know that they can unfortunately, like we said, lose SSI for a lot of different reasons, like if they're over that asset limit or if they inherit something. But there's some things that can like a special needs trust to be able to protect it. So always keep track of everything.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:42:53]:
 Inform SSA if there's any changes. Review that booklet once approved it's, it's very thorough and important and it tells about income resources that are counted, not counted. But yes, sometimes you can be suspended from the program or even totally cut off. Sometimes it's just for a certain period of time. If things are over an amount it's like three months, six months, different time frames. But yes it can happen and just try to be informed before things happen. A lot of times people don't know and they go I got suspended or I had this happen. Well unfortunately you can't always just go back and fix it.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:43:35]:
 But being informed and having the right information can help provide information and not have those things happen and protect yourself and your family and to be able to keep your ssi.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:43:50]:
 So as we lawyers like to say, ignorance is the law is no excuse. So when you get that booklet, what you need to know when you get SSI that should be kept in a very safe location and you should be consulting it if anything changes. If you get a job, if you are living someplace and now are moving there. As you read this book you will begin to understand that there are life circumstances that can change that can have an adverse impact on your ssi. So just because you get SSI doesn't mean you're going to keep on getting ssi, doesn't mean they aren't going to check and doesn't mean that they aren't going to ask you to repay any overpayment of ssi. If you no longer meet the asset test, most certainly.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:44:40]:
 And if a person, once they're approved and get that booklet, if the person is unable to read because they're in pain or illiterate or because any other health condition or otherwise, if there's someone that you trust and feel has your best interest at heart, have them read it with you and explain things so you're well informed and or make sure that they're informed. Sometimes people can have what's called a representative payee if they're not able to manage their funds for some reason or a company. And so if that person also could be kept abreast of what things are needing to be informed from ssa. But the main thing is to exactly know that ssi, especially on the non medical basis with those asset limits it's not a guarantee. So stay informed. Sometimes that booklet changes so you can always look online for the most updated version. Sometimes they'll have the same version for years. Sometimes they'll change them when Congress changes the laws.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:45:42]:
 Those booklets should change and they generally do change. Not always quickly, but they will. So you can always just do a search or go on SSA.gov and look for that booklet. But yeah, those are so important to be aware of those things. Stay informed and do what's best for you.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:46:00]:
 Well, great. We have covered a lot today and I want to thank Amy for joining us. Before we close, are there any last thoughts you have?
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:46:06]:
 Amy oh, I just thank you so much for allowing me to be here. It's so important to do what's right when people do what's right for them. And if they feel that they want to apply for SSI and or SSDI to have the knowledge and information, hire an attorney if that's what they feel most comfortable with and continue with the process even though it can be a lengthy one. Get medical treatment and stay informed. And thank you again for allowing me to be here today.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:46:41]:
 Well, thanks. I hope everyone has enjoyed this week's episode of Winning Isn't Easy. If you've enjoyed the episode, please like our page, leave a review and share it with your family and friends. And of course, subscribe to this podcast Now. In next week's episode we're going to talk about non medical criteria and the five step sequential evaluation. It's really crucial that you understand the five step sequential evaluation. Just because your neighbor who doesn't look like they're disabled is collecting Social Security disability benefits doesn't mean that you're going to get your Social Security disability benefits. You've got to understand the non medical criteria and the five step sequential evaluation.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:47:20]:
 So we'll talk to you in next week's episode.
 
 Amy Bellhorn [00:47:23]:
 Thanks.