00:00 - Temple (Host)
All right, welcome. I know that this particular group has very high coping skills already, because you are in a relationship with an illness that demands that. It demands you to take care of yourself or else you drown. And you know the nature of mental illness is that it demands attention and that's okay, because a lot of us are trained to not ask for help. I think as a culture, we tell ourselves deal with it, just whatever's going on, deal with it. I know for myself, especially as a woman that came up from the 80s into the 90s, there's definitely a power movement that women can do it all and we can run the world and all that stuff and you can run your business and still go home and look sexy and be cute and funny and then be nurturing to your children and then be, you know, loving and supportive to your friends and volunteer to church on Sunday. I mean literally that you can live a hundred lives in one body. So I'm just speaking for myself and for the women that I know in my circle that are a lot like that, and and Chris is aware too that it's mostly women that come to this group, because this is really a panel of caregivers and women have a different approach when it comes to caregiving. Did you know that 70% of all these self-help books are purchased by women? And it's been like that, it's always been like that. There's just something in us that is inherently driven to care about recovery for others and ourselves. 

01:44
Unfortunately, in this type of you know marriage or relationship, even your best efforts can leave you feeling drained and not a lot to give right. So, particularly in these times with holidays, where family members are coming in and out and expectations are high, triggers start to happen and we might overschedule ourselves, right, I mean? I think I know Danielle is overscheduled every day, as is. So now you're going to add, in some holiday parties, you're going to have to cook some dinners. Really, where do you put that stuff in? Well, you put it in where you were, maybe putting time for yourself. So if you only have a little bit of time for yourself and then situations are now pulling that away, who do you think is going to suffer? The people that you give to or yourself? Okay, spoiler alert, it's you. So what I want to talk about are some quick and easy things to immediately shift your energy, and you know what? 

02:48
There's something else I wanted to say here too, because I've had several people reach out to me this week about major bipolar episodes, mania that were happening with their loved ones and very scary stuff. And that's the place where your body really gets drained is when you have no idea what's going to happen next. Right, that level of adrenaline goes way up. Your nervous system starts firing on all cylinders. It's like, oh my gosh, is my husband leaving me? What's happening? Why is he looking for an apartment? That level of stress. 

03:19
What do you do in crisis to help yourself? There's levels of coping skills. There's what do we do in crisis? And then, what do we do for the long game that you can feel yourself going down the rabbit hole a little bit. And I tell you I want to share with you why I said I really need to be here today is because I had a trigger last night. As a matter of fact, because I've been thinking about coping skills all week and you know how, when you got yourself like aligned with something, then the universe is like oh OK, well, let's put it into practice. 

03:51
Because I was really thinking like what are my coping skills? What do I do to raise my energy when I need it most and a bunch of stuff came into my head last night. First of all, I took a bunch of vitamins right before bed. That's a mistake. I was so ramped up I couldn't get to sleep. And then my head started going so fast and I started thinking about everything at midnight and then 1am, and then it's 2am and then it's 3am and my head is still going so fast and I'm thinking about everything that has gone wrong and everything I've lost and everything I'm grieving about. Then I start negative self-talk like ugh, why do I even pretend like I know what I'm doing, what you know? I'm an idiot, like that kind of situation. And then my body starts hurting and I'm all the way you know. I'm climbing down the rabbit hole. 

04:39
At 3am and I had to ask myself Temple, what are you doing to support yourself right now? Pull out your purse of coping skills and dig in there. And one of the main coping skills and people with bipolar will tell you this as well is you need to sleep, and I'm not great at sleeping. So I usually have supplements and other medication to help me sleep, and I've submitted to that. But I woke up. I slept a couple hours and then I woke up and I thought oh my god, wednesdays are so busy for me. I'm literally busy like bell to bell. You know the second I open my eyes till midnight. Wednesdays are jam-packed. And I started to freak out and panic and I said do you know what? Here's another part of my coping skills Rest. I needed rest and I was overscheduled, so I canceled everything for the morning and just moved it off. 

05:40
And it wasn't a big deal and once I moved it I was so relieved and I was able to get the heating pad and get the tea, and get the toast and and lay down for a little while and just let my body restore. I just started changing up my vibe and I allowed my body to purge what it needed to purge because obviously something was triggered inside of me that was creating kind of a panic moment like my life is crashing down. But it really wasn't. It was just my brain going down the rabbit hole because I pushed myself too hard and I wasn't giving back Right. Not to say that I don't have a lot of stress I do but, I also have a lot of coping skills. 

06:18
Let me just say, if you're taking any notes, write it in your little book or put it in your it in your phone as a list of coping skills. And I have a folder in my phone under keep notes that say coping skills and it has little check marks and I pull that up and you know you think it's simple but it's really not. You have to remind yourself of the daily executive functions to keep yourself going, and that might just mean rest, drink some water, take a nap, cancel an appointment things that you wouldn't normally do or have to think about you have to think about. So I'm gonna get into some other coping skills, but those are just a couple of things. I just wanted to chime in and remind everybody that you just need to get back to basics sometimes. Danielle, what do you think about getting back to basics sometimes, Danielle, what do you think about getting back to basics when you're maxed out? Are you good at that or bad at that? 

07:10 - Danielle (Guest)
It just depends. I feel like I'm pretty good at it, but I've learned to be good at it and I have well. First of all, when this first started and we didn't really know as much about it as we do now, we were not as good at it. So I would definitely say if you're going through the heat of the battles, you will learn, like it will get better. The main thing is you guys both love each other so much and like there's so much there that eventually the spirits will align. You know, the crazy will soften, you will get better and I think obviously sleep is like a huge, huge thing and I also take sleeping medication and I also have a therapist for myself and before I met my husband I would never even imagine myself having a therapist, but I have one. 

08:02
She helps me, I see her biweekly and she reminds me that I am a valued individual and I feel like by feeling your own self-worth and like really recognizing and resonating with who you are as a person and just knowing how awesome you are, like no matter what kind of negativity or bad bullets that they're trying to throw at you. You know that that's not true. You know that those hurtful things aren't true. You definitely can separate. This is bipolar. Talking to me, not my sweet baby boy. You know, I think depersonalizing is huge, just knowing who you are as a strong woman and a strong person. And if you don't, I suggest you get a therapist. 

08:46
I know the holiday seasons are coming up. It's getting crazy right now. So this week I scheduled myself a hydrafacial and went with my mom and we had a little bit of girl time and it made me feel good. But I know for the next couple of months that is not happening. So get it in now if you can. But overall I just stick with it. Breathe one day at a time. If it keeps escalating, I would suggest to just be quiet, like don't engage, disengage, try to go to sleep, try to get through that and then in the morning like revisit it. 

09:21 - Temple (Host)
Danielle, what if some of your like practical, you know, do you like essential oils? Do you like to, you know, drink frilly water? Like what are some of your little spoil things that you do for yourself? 

09:34 - Danielle (Guest)
What I really like to do for myself is I like to do face masks, I like skincare routine, I like to paint my nails, you know, listen to music, just kind of like have my own little me time, watch my girly shows, stuff like that. 

09:51 - Temple (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. We all know how to. I won't say we all know how to. I'm saying we're getting skilled at responding to crisis mode. But what I want to kind of get us redirected is what are we doing daily to fill in the gaps where we might forget that we haven't done anything for ourselves in a while? You know, I have my little diffuser with my essential oils and I like to turn that on and set the room a little bit. You know, when I feel I've been stressed in a room for too long, like maybe it does something, maybe it doesn't, I don't know, but it makes me feel better, like we have the ability to change our energy. It can be easy or it can be jarring. Come on Temple, you know. Turn on some I don't know black eyed peas or Jennifer Lopez and start moving your body. Something that'll force me to want to move, even when I don't feel like it. Because you know, I got the music in me and when it starts to play I can't help it. I'm going to shake my booty and you know, then it's an automatic response where my energy starts to lift. Even though I didn't want to. I was perfectly comfortable sulking, but I go into my coping skills as an autopilot. 

11:13
The negative self-talk can get in. That can come from your bipolar partner. When they are not feeling well, those things can get in and start programming you. But there's only. I mean, we really only have 10% conscious thought. 90% of our thoughts are automatic. They're old, they're our daily, daily, daily, daily, daily. That we've had for years and years and years and years and years, since you were five years old, what parents you know program and teachers program, and then your bosses program. 

11:43
All those things are on autopilot. So we really have to take a intentional thought to feel better when we feel like shit. So you, I like what you're saying, danielle. Where you're going to not take it for truth and that's another coping skill is for you to automatically ask yourself when, when a thought comes in that says you are this or that, something negative that your spouse has said to you when they were sick, and you ask yourself is it true? Okay, and then ask again is it a hundred percent true? Okay, I mean, maybe he said something that kind of was true at some point in your life and so it stings, okay. But because it was true then doesn't mean it's true now. So ask yourself twice is that true? Is it a hundred percent true? No, because I did the work to be different than I was 10, 15 years ago. Pushing buttons is going to happen, but you do have control over whether you're going to let it become a program, okay. So I want to move on to Bridget. Yeah. 

12:48 - Bridget (Guest)
Hi everyone. As a lot of you know, my husband and I are separated right now. I need to get knowledge, and I just need to understand as much as I can why things are happening, and so that is something that soothes me weirdly is like reading self-help books, listening to podcasts. That's probably not for everyone, but what I was going to say was that I heard this great thing on NPR a few weeks ago in relation to the pandemic, and it was this public health expert who was saying when there's a crisis, you have to fix the acute issue. So, is someone bleeding, is whatever it is, what's happening in that moment to kind of stop the pain? And I think that's where those kind of self care tactics come in. So it's a deep breathing. Is it body work? Is it watching garbage television? Whatever it is. But then also, while you're addressing that, can you look at the big picture and what's the long-term fix for you? Not for your spouse, necessarily, and so I've really taken that in stride. 

13:49
Recently, through my marriage counseling, found out that my husband has disorganized attachment style, and I don't know if you've ever gone into that temple, but it's basically very insecure, anxious and avoidant at the same time, and I have anxious attachment, which means that I don't cope well with the threat of abandonment, and I think that's what's made the separation really hard. And so I've read a couple of books in the last week and then I just started going to a therapist who's going to do body work with me to help me really try to rebuild more secure attachment and not feel these emotions as heavily. And so that's where I'm seeing for myself what's that long term, so I can be better no matter what happens in my relationship, that I won't ever go down this dark rabbit hole that I've been in. So I don't know if that's helpful for anyone, but, you know, just trying to think what can I change within myself to be a stronger partner or better person, just for myself. But of course, having those coping mechanisms of going to exercise like hot yoga is great for me, you know, watching the Real Housewives and Below Deck and, yeah, just all the self care. 

15:01
And then something that I learned through this attachment expert I'm working with was to think of people who care about you, like so who is your person that you feel so secure and you know loves you unconditionally? Not in that moment that's not your spouse, and for me it's my brother, and when I think of him I just get such a warm feeling in my body, just the love that he has for me, and so that really helps me kind of not feel so lonely in that moment Wonderful, awesome. 

15:32 - Temple (Host)
That's a really good share, bridget, and you do sound like you have more energy this week, and I'm just really proud of you oh thanks, yeah, I mean, there's nothing easy about separation and it is. 

15:48
You know, sometimes it feels good to get a title or a label, right, like oh, okay, cool, attachment style, whatchamajiggy Cool, that gives me something to, you know, look up, right, it gives you a sense of control. So I totally get that. And at the same time, be reminded that everybody has attachment issues and everybody struggles with abandonment. Nobody wants to lose their loved ones in any way, so we don't have to get stuck in that place either. It's kind of like a stigma for yourself, right, like oh, I just have to be okay, I just have to recover. Well, I can't recover because I'm, I have this label. Well, you're labeled today because you're challenged in a big way today. 

16:35
Yeah, I just want to remind you to be very gentle with yourself and don't try to lock yourself down into saying oh, the only reason I, you know, feel bad is because I have to be part of this title or label. You feel bad because you're going through something shitty. 

16:53 - Bridget (Guest)
Yeah, I just feel like I have not been coping well in the last couple weeks. 

16:59 - Temple (Host)
Yeah, so you're telling me you're struggling during a hard time. 

17:02 - Danielle (Guest)
Right. 

17:03 - Temple (Host)
Is there anything more normal than that? Maybe, yeah. Is there anything more normal than having heartache when your loved one is in pain and when you are separated from them, and when there's a possibility of divorce, like, is there anything more normal than that? You are doing a brilliant job. You've reached out for help. You personally connected with me and let me love on you. You've reached out to a counselor. You are exercising, for God's sakes, I mean, bridget, when it comes to coping skills during a painstaking experience. I see that you're winning. 

17:41 - Bridget (Guest)
Oh well that, thank you. That's helpful, because my husband told me I need to be stronger, so I appreciate that. Is it true? Is it 100% true? That's good advice, so thank you. 

17:52 - Temple (Host)
There you go, you're welcome. Is it true? Is it 100% true? Is it true that maybe at some point you might not have been able to handle something the way you wanted to? Sure, is it 100% true that you need to be stronger? I say no. 

18:06
As a matter of fact, I was speaking with a client yesterday. She said the same thing. Her family is telling her she needs to be stronger after 23 years of living with a bipolar spouse who has been you know all the symptoms for all these years. And I said, I mean, I'm not a counselor, you guys know my approach. I'm a spiritual advocate and so I go for the heart. And I said why do you need to be stronger? You're already all the strength. Maybe you need to be less of everything. Maybe you're maxed out at all the things that you have expected yourself to be. 

18:40
And then now people are saying, well, be a little more. Well, maybe I need to be a little less. Maybe I need to be a little less attentive, a little a little less aggressive, a little less ambitious, a little a little less go-go, a little less busy. You know, maybe I need to be a little less tired. Be gentle on you and do not make demands on yourself that your spirit is telling you that's. I'm not in alignment with that. 

19:05
You don't need to be stronger, Bridget. You have all the strength you need already in your little finger to get you through whatever you need to get through. So you'll be exactly what you need to be. I love you. Thank you for letting me rant it's my favorite thing sometimes. Okay, so I want everybody to hear more about coping skills today. You know, stigma is a big topic, but our group is about the spouses of that's our focus and we have our own stigma that we live with, that we have to be all the things and that we have to keep it together for our family and for our spouses. And if we don't, there's serious consequences there can be a manic episode. 

19:44
They could forget to take their medication. They could, you know, forget to eat for a day. My husband will forget to eat. So there's a lot of consequences and the stigma for me that I get from my family and friends is that you're so strong, how do you just do all those things? I would never be able to do that and I say are you kidding me? Yes, you would. We are called to the carpet for the things that we can do. This is my carpet and I show up. 

20:10
But it's not because I have superhuman strength. It's because I've got 30 years of coping skills under my belt and then I've used them to coach others. So now it's cyclical and on autopilot and that's what saves my butt. But it's not superhuman strength. It's really just creating habits of healing and allowing myself to be broken at times and to not beat myself up about it when that happens and say, oh well, you're never going to be able to help anybody. Look at what a mess you are. 

20:38
That's completely untrue. That's the 90% of the autopilot mind that says you're not really good enough to do what you want to do, you're sick, you're tired. Well, you know what? All I got to do is put my little earbuds in and sit up. That's all I had to do to show up today. So my body might have said, no, you're not good enough. But my spirit knows better and she says come on, temple, just hit the button. As soon as you turn it on, it's all going to be okay. 

21:04
Sometimes you got to let your spirit take over and override what your mind and your body is trying to tell you about yourself. How do we talk to our bipolar spouses when they're in crisis mode, and is there a way to do better? My method, kind of, has been a little harsh, because I get so triggered and I'm like, please just go take your meds. I'm not going to tolerate whatever you're saying. It's just it's gotten very aggressive where I'm like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, to the point that I would call the police if I had to, and so I don't want to do that. Now I get to introduce a new friend and a really special person that I'm really glad he's here. 

21:45 - Chris (Guest)
Yeah, Hello, Temple, Great to be here. I am one of the partners that would be have been bipolar. I have. I had 10 years of going in and out of the hospital with different partners before I was able to find the key to manage myself. I've been very successful, staying well for 14 years now Well, actually, 15 years doing well and been able to wean myself off medication totally and living fully in my life right now. I didn't do it alone. I can say that I had lots of help, lots of help. I think every woman that I was with of help, lots of help. I think every woman that I was with guided me in some way to get better. But I do want to highlight one particular person. What I do right now actually is I work for a non-profit organization here in Toronto, canada and I am a peer support and a case manager for people with mental health challenges. 

22:34
So every day well part-time, actually three days a week I'm actually in the field working with people, doing workshops, helping them learn to manage their states. But I do want to highlight in this group one particular person that really kind of guided me and she was a partner I had. Her name is Karen and I had her when I lived in Belize, central America. She was a healer Basically. She did Reiki and massage and energy work and I learned energy work from her. One of the most powerful things she did for me was encourage me. She believed in me. I think when we can help someone by believing in them, by giving them signs, not only did she believe in me, she gave me signs of my wellness. 

23:12
I remember once I was in the hospital after a manic episode and she came to the hospital and did Reiki on my head and woke me up. And when I woke up, she said to me there's nothing wrong with you, you just don't know how to take care of yourself. I think that was one of the most powerful statements I heard from her. I mean, she said you just don't know how to take care of yourself. And I think that was one of the things that made me go hmm, is that possible, despite the doctor saying that I'm bipolar, despite the doctor saying that I will have this for the rest of my life and I will always have to take medication? Does she have something there? And it woke me up to the idea that maybe there's a possibility, maybe there is more to this than what I'm being told. And it set me off on a journey searching to learn about the illness, to learn about coping skills, but also her having her by my side who, every time I fell off the horse, encouraged me back up by saying I believe in you. I see what happened this time. Listen to what I'm telling you, pay attention to these things in your life. It's not about me, it's about you. You have to do it. I can't do it for you. 

24:09
But here's what I've noticed she always encouraged me to look and she always encouraged me by sharing, instead of accusing me of things that I do wrong, by creating curiosity in me. And she was curious too, and I think that's a wonderful way to help someone by being curious. Can we try something else? I noticed this instead of saying you know you're wrong or you need to do this, or just accusing me of all sorts of stuff, which some partners did. 

24:35
Of course, it's a very stressful thing I totally understand, you know, having someone bipolar or manic that's running around doing things that are very upsetting and it's very scary. But she had the courage, even though she was afraid. She had the courage to stand there and be curious and to say you know, how can I help you? What are you doing? What can I help? Show you that can help you feel better, and I think you know. I just want to point out that when we have a partner that's struggling with a mental illness and now, interesting enough, now I have some people around me that actually I'm coaching, that are close to me, and these are women that have bipolar, and I have also adapted the same idea that she taught me to be a healer to them rather than a discourager. Rather than hold them down for what they're doing wrong, push them up for all the things they're doing right. And I think I'll stop there because I'm talking a lot. 

25:28 - Temple (Host)
It's okay. No, I appreciate, I really appreciate what you're saying, and there was that line that you said. I noticed that dot dot dot. That really intrigued me and maybe you can expand a little bit on that. 

25:42
Chris, for me, we are hyper aware of what's going on in our spouses. We are symptom focused and our antennas have to be really high. Your antenna has to be high because you want to prevent an episode escalating, and so you want to catch it early, want to prevent an episode escalating, and so you want to catch it early. And now that's where I think a lot of us trip up is the panic that happens. I'll start to see my husband move his mouth like he's having a conversation, but there aren't words coming out and I'm like, oh, there's a little bit of psychosis happening, nothing major is happening, but there's a sign and that's a flag saying oh, here comes. How do you feel, chris, like when, let's say, you had a particular sign or symptom. That was an early flag, like I'm headed towards a cycle or an episode, and she said you know, hey, chris, I noticed that you know you're, you were kind of having a conversation with your mouth. Would that trigger you or would that support you? 

26:40 - Chris (Guest)
okay. So I have to admit, at the beginning there is that uh, and you know we all have our egos like, uh, you don't want to tell you, don't tell me what to do, I know what I'm doing. That's generally what starts. That's the beginning place that a lot of people who are struggling with staying on, staying centered when something is going down, that's where I started a lot of times. 

27:01
But the awareness of her noticing it started me thinking hmm, something like hey, I noticed that you forgot the pot on the stove and you burnt the water. Is everything OK? It didn't upset me, it just made me realize okay, I did that. Even though I might pretend that, oh, I'm okay, it made me. It would jar me into thinking about am I okay, let's see? And then if she says to me, oh, and I also noticed that you left the house and you forgot your keys, that would be another thing that I would go oh, that's something's going on and it would force me to start paying more attention. But what? The way she did it was not to accuse me but to say I noticed this is happening and the more things she and it's true, you do have an acute sense with your partner. We all do, and you know it's part of the course of helping manage someone who's having crisis is being being there for them and being aware, and the fact that she was able to point those things out with a bit of curiosity are you okay? Forced me to start adjusting. And if it got to the point where it was escalating to being more, she'd say you know, you really should take some time off and do something. We had an agreement If there was five things going wrong, five things that were piled up in 24 hours, then you know I have to pay attention where there's something going on. So what helped was also making an agreement of okay, we'll give you a certain amount of time to see, because not every time you burn you left the pot on. To burn means that you're in crisis, so you have to come up with some way of becoming aware that okay, this has happened a few times. So, please, we need to talk about this. Are you okay? Are you sleeping? 

28:34
There's another thing I want to point out about sleep. We talk a lot about sleep, there's a lot of stress around sleep, but I've also found out that it's our attitude towards when we're not sleeping that makes a difference. So for me, if I don't sleep because I've been through cycles and women do all the time when they go through menopause or different times, they have different cycles they don't sleep. Well, there is a part in everyone, depending on what it is and the type of sleep and what's going on in your life. To me, the sleep is not as important as how my attitude towards if I didn't sleep. Case in point, if I'm excited about something and I don't sleep, but my excitement is based on positive energy, it's different than if I'm scared and going through a crisis and I'm not sleeping. Do you get what I'm talking about with that? 

29:17 - Temple (Host)
Sure like Christmas morning right. 

29:18 - Chris (Guest)
So yeah. So there's a different time Now having bipolar, you have to be paying attention to both types. You can't just ignore excitement either, because that could lead to a trigger. But what you have to understand is how do I feel about this state Meaning that if I can say to myself oh, I know I didn't sleep, but I know I'm conscious of it, I'm aware. 

29:38 - Bridget (Guest)
And I look at other factors. 

29:39 - Chris (Guest)
Am I making mistakes in other parts of my life? Am I doing things that would lead to an episode? Or am I just recognizing that because of some incident or excitement, I didn't sleep? Then I can say, okay, the next day I'm going to wind down, I'm going to take more time, I'm going to rest, I'm going to sleep. So my attitude towards it is not to be unfair, because I think when we're fearful about something, it makes it harder to fix it. That's what I wanted to say about sleep. I'm Chris, I'm done talking. 

30:03 - Temple (Host)
Thank you for saying that, chris. That's actually really relevant and what a beautiful view to take on that, and it made me think about the way that I view sleep is kind of like what you were saying. I have spent a lot of years being somebody that has a very busy schedule and high demanding jobs, so there would be several times where I would sleep maybe you know five hours, but get up and work a 10 hour day and totally kick ass, and then even you know meet people for a drink afterwards and then you know, do it all again the next day, know, meet people for a drink afterwards and then you know, do it all again the next day, and so my internal clock is kind of used to running hard and fast. So now I'm I'm older than that, obviously I'm going to be 51. 

30:48
And, yeah, now it's like well, I need to plan for the resting time. It's okay if I have two or three days where I only sleep maybe five to seven hours, and then I run hard those few days and get a lot of stuff done, and then I try to leave myself a couple days where I'm flexible If I wanted to take a nap. You know, just leave some space and, believe me, I do kind of feel guilty. So I like that you said it's about the attitude of it that it's okay for me to take a nap if I need to take a nap and be happy about it and wake up and feel refreshed because I already crammed in a bunch of stuff into a shorter amount of time. 

31:31 - Janice (Guest)
So that's really good. Hi, it's Janice. Can I ask something? 

31:36 - Temple (Host)
Yes, please do. 

31:37 - Janice (Guest)
Hi Chris, thanks for joining us. I'm also from Toronto, so that's interesting. But did you always know that you had bipolar when you were symptomatic? Because my husband has been sick for five years and has no awareness of it at all, and he's in a what I believe to be completely dysphoric mania right now where it's just rapid fire criticism, where I can't breathe, like I literally don't even speak. I don't point out his faults, I don't point out his faulty thinking, I literally duck and hide. It's almost like I can't survive him and his rage and his thought process. 

32:22
I suggested tonight, for example, that I pick up some Korean food on the way home, and he just went ballistic and started insulting it and telling me how everything I eat is shit and everything that I'm trying to feed the children is like carbs, and he went on and on and on and on. 

32:35
And he's obsessed with my weight and being overweight, even though I'm a size zero. So I just say, okay, goodbye, I'm hanging up and I just hang up. See, when you say that people help you or that your partners have helped you, I don't know how to help them, because when I've pointed out to him that I believe he's bipolar like his sister and that my doctor has told me this and that my own therapist and psychiatrist have printed out information sheets and that he'd had a psychiatrist tell him he had a psychotic episode. None of it seems to matter. He doesn't believe he's sick. He calls me the crazy one. So I'm curious as to how you've had your partners steer you in that direction, because after five years you know you talk about stigma. My friends think I'm insane for being with him, like literally think that I am completely loopy, and so you know. I thought that's what we were talking about today stigma because I'm embarrassed, janice. 

33:20 - Temple (Host)
I am so glad that you brought this up. I just want to give a little cushion around Chris, because this is the first time he's been here. 

33:28
Yes okay, I did tell him that. You know we have a lot of questions and they might be tough, so he has not really been prepped. He just kind of came in to introduce himself. So I just want to gently, you know, give Chris an out that if you are not in a position to answer that type of question, don't worry about it. But we would appreciate whatever feedback you might have. If you have been in a position when you were not self-aware, or if you might have been, you know, or know anybody with bipolar that was verbally abusive during their episodes, what kind of support, or, if any, helped. So how about that? 

34:02 - Chris (Guest)
Okay, so, temple, you don't have to shield me. I'm tough. Okay, I'm true, I've had so many questions. Don't worry, I can deal with this. Okay, so I've been there where I have been. I'll be honest with you. I have been there where I mean, my anger and my rage was so scary you know they would call police, and I've been all through those things before. 

34:21
This person you're meeting now is so far from the person that I was when I was going through the states of mania. First of all, my mania happened when I was in the height of my career. I was in bodybuilding, I was Mr Toronto, I was like 250, full of muscle. I ended up in theater and in New York on stage I was also singing opera and then I lost it, and so it was very scary. What happened after that? What she's saying to me is I understand, because I laughed out at people, I said the meanest things and I wasn't ready to face it right away. So at the very beginning, I know what she's talking about. It's very hard to come to terms and say you know what? This is a problem I have, because it's hard to accept the diagnosis. That's the hardest thing at the beginning to accept that something is wrong with you really appreciate Chris's honesty. 

35:20 - Temple (Host)
So I want us all to be just mindful how difficult it is to share, as the person with bipolar, that you've had bad behaviors and hurtful behaviors. So let's stay very mindful and loving about this. But I also wanted to say, janice, just I'm glad that you're still here. Janice, I am so grateful that you're still showing up, and part of that is what we're talking about is the coping skills and putting time for yourself to reset your energy. If you are under rapid fire like that, not only are you getting stigma from your friends that you're crazy for staying, but you inside probably have a lot of stigma on yourself that you need to be taking care of him, even though you're feeling abused. 

36:00
And you know that is something that you really need to make sure that you have enough support and counsel, that you continue to build your self worth, to figure out how you can start setting a stronger boundary or, you know even the possibility of not accepting that behavior at all, because there is a difference between a bipolar episode and an ongoing abusive relationship. It's very hard to differentiate if they keep rapid cycling, but there is a difference. 

36:33 - Chris (Guest)
Yeah. So I was just going to say that to you. That's exactly part of what Temple was saying is Janice, you've got to take care of yourself. Sometimes. One of the things that happened to me is I started to change and take responsibility, and if you're with someone who doesn't even want to look, I think it's important to recognize that self-care, like we talked about self-love and making sure that you're okay, so that you're not going to fall into a situation where you can become unwell, and that sometimes, like Temple said, to step away and give someone space so they can see for themselves through somebody else's eyes. It's very difficult sometimes to get a partner sometimes to hear or see what you're trying to say, because there's so much dynamic in a relationship that can make it difficult for them to see the truth. So, but what I want to say in my case. 

37:19
I made a decision to not hurt anybody else anymore. I made the decision that people were important. I turned to love and realized like if I was loving, I would have to start to care about these people, rather than so be consumed with myself and what I feel and what I thought was okay, but rather than look at them from the point of how can I help them and how can I be better. Part of the reason I got better is because I started to look out of myself and look at others and look at how I can be a better person to support them, and I think that was a turning point for my course in getting better. 

37:53 - Temple (Host)
You and Karen did not stay together, right, Chris? No, Actually the funny thing is. 

37:58 - Chris (Guest)
After I got better, she said she couldn't be with me because she could only be with people she needed to help. She was a pure healer, in the sense that she says once you're better, now there's nothing for me to do. 

38:09 - Bridget (Guest)
So she went on in different ways and it was all good, I mean we're still friends, so it didn't end in a bad way. 

38:26 - Temple (Host)
It was just time to move on. Okay, you know that's relevant to that. Not all endings are bad ending. Sometimes it might be healthier for both of you. What I hear a lot in our women's Facebook group is that they don't have choices. Put your focus on being independent so that you do have choices first. So, chris, thank you so much for your transparency. Annabella, did you have some feedback or a question for anybody? 

38:47 - Annabelle (Guest)
Yeah, I had some feedback for Janice. So my husband and I have been together for almost 15 years and for the past like seven or so we've been working through trying to figure out how to support him better. So he has eating disorder, ADHD, post-traumatic PTSD, right, and then the only thing that really like fit into place for me was the bipolar. As I kept researching and even to this day I don't think he would really verbally say he has that. But it took about five years for me to help him find a mood stabilizer and to get him to the right spot to try it, and since that day he hasn't been verbally abusive to me. 

39:29
There's so many things I would still love to fix and things like that, but it took some time. But I've been through being, you know, emotionally abused through you know him being on substances, things like that, but it took some time. But I've been through being, you know, emotionally abused through, you know, him being on substances, things like that, and I'm just a living witness that it can get better. But of course my husband's very good at choosing his family and trying to be better. It's not always perfect, but I just wanted to let you know that I've had some hope and stayed together and we've really found a way to make it work. 

40:01 - Temple (Host)
Well, annabelle, thank you for your transparency, and you know I really appreciate what you're saying there that you may not see the light at the end of the tunnel sometimes Right, but something within you wanted to keep going. So this is really a soul's journey. You know and that's what I heard Chris say is that he had to figure out his own soul's journey around this. How does bipolar fit into his life purpose and his message and all these things that we have to go through, our shadow selves and our dark nights? And what does that mean? You know, are you willing to go through the dark night of somebody's soul? It's tough. I've been through my own and I've seen my husband's. Maybe you'll make it, maybe you won't. 

40:49
I don't encourage people either way. It's a personal choice, just like when somebody's abusing themselves, you want so badly just to pull them up out of that. And, as a healer myself, so many times I just want to pray somebody up out of their situation. But what I can do is pray for healing in whatever capacity can show up, but I can't control what that person in front of me is going to receive or what their method of healing is going to be, because sometimes the method is going back down into the hole before they come back up. But what I truly hope and pray is that we all start to learn harm reduction first rather than extreme consequences. 

41:32
There's too many people that end up in jail when what they really need is mental health support or they need spiritual health support. So remember that you are being called to a task that has very little support and you become all the things You're the psychiatric nurse, you're the healer, you're the nurturer, the caregiver, the mother, the sister, the friend. You're all the things in one and that is a very big calling to take on. So what I encourage you for self-care is to find out how you can diversify the things that your spouse needs. I'm all the hats. I need you to be some of the other hat. 

42:11
But because he's mentally, mental health disabled, he gets a few hours a week of a caregiver that comes around and, you know, does a few things for him. There's a significant disconnect. So remember that the system is not built to support you where you're at, so you have to create it. Allowing an ongoing abusive situation to happen is not helping him. Oh, one thing I wanted to add in. 

42:40
You know we talked a little bit about dancing and using your oils and playing some music, watching reality TV and just kind of scheduling in those little things to keep your energy in a higher vibration and just a little like biological fact, when you sing you are healing your vagus nerves, the nerves that go from your brainstem down into your shoulders, into your lungs, all through your digestive system, down into your lower back, down into your legs. Like the vagus nerves, when they're constricted under stress they can cause dizziness, they can cause exhaustion, they can cause digestive issues. Think about what your body is telling you and what can you do to support it in the moment. But if you could even just start singing a little bit, that vibration will loosen up the nerves, the majority of your body, and start unclenching some of that tension. That's a little tip from Dr Temple. I just wanted to throw that in. Kelly, can you give us a little bit of a, not crisis tips, but what are some of your simple pleasure coping skills? 

43:51 - Kelly (Guest)
I've got a lot of them. It just depends on how big of a crisis is at hand, and if it's a regular stressful situation of my spouse kind of getting irritable or angry, it's walking away, which I. It took me, I think, maybe 15 years to learn that skill. I think I'm a slow learner and also a diagnosis. To learn that skill and then when we're in big crisis, is to get away with my kids and go do something else and think that I need to kind of be the bigger person and kind of get them away from the situation and take a breather and also talk about the reality with them. And they're 14 and nine, but you know, I've had to be pretty real with them, so that's helpful. My exercise kind of goes down when I'm in crisis mode, but that really is helpful for me to get outside and I have things that I can exercise, like I have a bike inside, but it's just not the same. I need to get out in fresh air, and so that's always kind of one of the best things to do. 

44:56 - Temple (Host)
Yes. So what you're telling me is that you get yourself regrounded. Nature instantly kind of grounds us. So if you can ride your bike and get some fresh oxygen or, you know, walk in grass, you can get back into your body, right? 

45:10 - Kelly (Guest)
Yes, and then if it's a major crisis, talking to someone and crying and just releasing. 

45:16 - Temple (Host)
Yes, girl, I had that on the list. Have a cry, you know? I mean, like Chris said, some of us are going through menopause. I mean, we have estrogen. Estrogen equals tears. You know, we're good at crying, but because we have such high coping skills, sometimes it's not convenient to cry right, or we're going to look weak. So you have to find another way. Watch beaches, watch something that can get the tears out, play a sad song, just, even if it's something temporary, but just let it release. It's not doing you any good sitting in your body. If you're crying for a long period of time, then you've now gone into your own crisis mode. There's a difference between release and you're going down the rabbit hole where you need to phone a friend. 

46:04 - Kelly (Guest)
Yes, and I do want to add. One more thing is sometimes, when I need to walk away, I don't find sitting or in certain situations, like being emotional, very effective. I find like cleaning and putting things away and letting out my frustration that way, like just staying, moving away from him, is helpful. 

46:25 - Temple (Host)
Yes, boy, you're giving me all the gems. Those are all the things that I do, too, is I start washing dishes. So, yeah, it's good, because why your adrenaline's up? That's why that's good for you. When we have adrenaline and cortisol pumping through your body, you definitely don't want to sit down and let that attack your nervous system. These have been beautiful tips and gems and what a fabulous conversation we've had, and I really appreciate that Chris stopped in and gave us some insight as our I don't want to say our token bipolar person. But thank you for allowing us to prod you a bit, chris, and your transparency was wonderful and we want to invite you back anytime, okay, well, this has been a very successful conversation. Thank you, everybody, and I will see you next time.