Matrescence Explained: The Identity Shift of Motherhood with Therapist Vickie Victorenko

In this powerful episode of The Spiritual Parent Podcast, host Carrie Lingenfelter sits down with licensed clinical therapist Vickie Victorenko to explore the unspoken transformation every mother goes through: matrescence. Vickie explains how motherhood is not just about caring for a baby but about a profound identity shift—emotionally, physically, hormonally, and spiritually.

Together, Carrie and Vickie unpack the pressures modern moms face, the myth of “bouncing back,” and why it’s essential to normalize asking for help. They also share stories about preparing for the fourth trimester, managing overwhelm, building support systems, and breaking generational patterns of burnout.

If you’ve ever felt like you lost yourself in motherhood or wondered how to find joy and identity again while raising children, this episode will remind you that you’re not alone—and that motherhood is its own sacred journey.

Connect with Vickie Victorenko:
*Website: https://simplyrealmotherhood.com/
*Instagram: @simplyrealmotherhood
*Facebook: @simplyrealmotherhood

New! Conscious Family Travels Channel on YouTube with Carrie:
https://www.youtube.com/@consciousfamilytravels

Connect with Carrie:
*Website: https://hearttoheartlife.com/
*Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespiritualparent
*YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSpiritualParent
*Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Spiritual-Parent/61554482625081
*Email: info@hearttoheartlife.com

**Please remember that the information shared on this podcast is educational in nature and does not constitute licensed mental health advice. If you need such advice, you should speak with a licensed professional about your unique situation. Thanks so much happy listeners.

© 2024-2025 Heart to Heart Life LLC

Transcript

Carrie @ H2H Parents (00:01.46)
Hi there and welcome back. I'm so excited to connect with a guest I've had on a holiday version of Heart to Heart and I'm so excited to have her back. I have Vicky Victorenko, a licensed clinical therapist. She runs an amazing support group for moms in their fourth trimester and beyond. Thanks so much Vicky for connecting with us today.

Vickie (00:22.37)
Yes, thank you so much for having me, Carrie. I'm so excited.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (00:25.36)
Yeah, it was so fun to connect with you. know we're on Instagram all the time supporting moms and connecting in that space. So it's so fun to see you in real life time.

Vickie (00:36.374)
I agree, I agree, no thank you for having me.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (00:39.1)
Yeah. So I was going to ask you, so it's really amazing that you're supporting moms in this fourth trimester. feel like I was in the fourth trimester many years ago. My son's just turned 10. So I feel like it was just starting to come online at that time.

Vickie (00:52.376)
my gosh, okay.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (00:57.798)
I, whenever I would read something, a mom talking about how intense it can be being in that fourth semester, I would just be nursing my son and just crying and reading it on my phone. So are you finding, is it becoming more accepting in our society to talk about this out loud and have these conversations with moms to support them?

Vickie (01:03.63)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (01:07.726)
you

Vickie (01:20.75)
You know, I think that's a really good question because I think that we're slowly getting better and better at it, but I still feel like we have a little ways to go with it, right? Because I think like social media has certainly helped with kind of getting that information out there. Like it's becoming more of a forefront.

But I think that it's still for women, accepting that they need help sometimes can still be a hard thing because it can oftentimes feel like, okay, my gosh, am I failing or something like that? So I think there's still more language around mental health, but moms are still often expected to like bounce back much quicker, like do it all. sometimes like, or not need to do too much. So like there's kind of this.

tug and pull, right? And so I think support is more marketed now, again, kind of going through like the mom culture and influencers and again, social media, but it's not always as easily accessible or affordable and sometimes like that non-judgmental piece too. So again, I think we're getting there, but I still feel like we have a little ways to go.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (02:26.708)
Yeah, so we're not quite fully in it, it sounds like. But yeah, that's great to hear that some progress is being made. It's interesting. Somebody once told me having your second baby is so fun because you already know so many of the pieces coming into it. And I feel like having that second baby, it really helped me to understand that.

Vickie (02:29.388)
Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (02:50.738)
You don't have to live life in the thick of it. And with all those emotions and feelings, and feeling like each day was a hard day, it felt so different. What are your thoughts on that?

Vickie (02:59.192)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think you're right. Because I think, you know, I recently met with some moms in person for a event that we hosted and some of the moms were really worried that like, you know, they are having, are about to have their second baby or just recently had their second baby. And that worry and guilt of like, I'm not giving my first born all the attention or my second born all the attention. And someone told me when I was in the thick of like having my second baby is that like your first baby got all of

your attention and love and everything, but your second baby gets all of your experience now. And so, like I thought that was a really profound way of like resonating with me and also like talking about that with moms as well. And I think that's a really important perspective.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (03:51.541)
That's wonderful. Yeah, it's a different experience, right? Yeah, maybe not the exact same. They don't have a fumbling mom with the second one. Yeah, or even I think for me was like nervous, anxious mom the second time I was. And we even had a second with our second child went into the NICU and our first child did not. So we had a more intense version that second time around. I think.

Vickie (03:57.304)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Vickie (04:03.79)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (04:17.54)
I had worked with a doula and had been in a different head space that had prepared us. you find that preparation beforehand can really help with this piece?

Vickie (04:21.078)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (04:28.674)
Absolutely. I think that again, like so many times with like first moms, first time moms, like you don't know what to expect. Like I always say, we always prepare for the baby, right? We pick out the names, we pick out like the nursery theme, but like nobody prepares for like the transformation that you go through as a mom, as a dad, as a family unit. And so, you know, I think it's wonderful when people either have like that doula support or maybe they have like that village supporter, you know, one of the moms I'm working with right now.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (04:38.962)
Yeah.

Vickie (04:58.478)
she started therapy, even though she's, think like 16 or 18 weeks pregnant. And so like she's already anticipating these things and like various challenges that she's already going through in pregnancy. And I'm like, that's wonderful that you took that step to gaining that help right now to have that as a catalyst to help you through like that postpartum experience. So I think that's wonderful. Like when you can get that help early on to help gain the tools and perspective and absolutely.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (05:28.434)
Yeah, I feel like there's so many, it's almost like a plastic version of the checklist. It's all about the things, acquiring all of the things that the baby needs in the nursery and all of the gadgets and tools. But really, we need a heart checklist. Maybe you need to do that.

Vickie (05:34.744)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (05:45.484)
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (05:49.713)
Yeah, yeah, it's a head space of getting to that place of where we need to be. It was really interesting when I had my first kiddo, we had a baby shower, the, and I thought I was being so organic by having the husband there, like, we're gonna have men, we're gonna be inclusive, everybody's gonna be there. But really it was like that checklist of all the things, getting all the pieces and.

Vickie (06:04.952)
Yeah. Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (06:14.086)
Having fun. we had fun preparing but in the second round I threw myself a mother's blessing where I had a lot of people that I connected with come together we had like a mandala and all of this ritual and and each mom said, like an affirmation or a prayer for me and they put a bead on a necklace and so When my daughter was coming, she was coming three weeks early, and my water broke right away I was like, this is a totally different

Vickie (06:34.766)
Come on.

Vickie (06:41.368)
for me.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (06:43.99)
experience we grabbed that necklace and took it to the hospital with us and as we were walking to the hospital I was starting my husband was panicking more than I was because I was just kind of in this calm space but he saw this picture on the wall and he or a book and it was the warrior princess and he was like look it's you and it's our daughter too and so both of us were just in that headspace we had worked really hard to connect with those around us and each mom that had been at that mother's

Vickie (06:44.61)
Okay. Okay.

Vickie (07:00.034)
Good.

Vickie (07:10.722)
Mm-hmm.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (07:14.11)
had a candle so my mom was texting all of them like light the candle for Carrie like send all these prayers to her and for the baby and so it was it was really cool I feel like when we can connect with ourselves early on it just prepares us for such a different experience.

Vickie (07:15.288)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Vickie (07:30.638)
I think so too. And I think like one thing that's really interesting and like that we again don't talk about enough as a society is that it's really okay. Again, we're going to be learning and going through all the different phases with our babies and with our toddlers and older kids. Now you have a 10 year old, right? So like you're going through all these times. And so like we are allowed to grow alongside our children.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (07:49.374)
Yeah.

Vickie (07:56.812)
Right? Because like we are learning all the things for the first time as well, whether it's your first child, your second child, third, like, yes, you're going to have that nuggets of wisdom, like how to do the diapers, how to give the baths. But at the same time, like every child is so different, every temperament is so different. And so like, it's okay to learn with them because one of the examples I use, you know, especially for moms in particular is like the

theme and topic of matressence, right? And I say like, as adolescents, we are learning all the first, like we're going through a really big transition. And I think the same thing with matressence, like you are literally stepping into this new identity of a mom and you're growing alongside your child and it's okay like to feel like you're fumbling and.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (08:46.216)
What was that called? Mantressin? Sorry. I haven't heard of that. What is, is it a program?

Vickie (08:47.959)
matressants.

Vickie (08:52.366)
No, so it's literally when you are, so you can use the word of like adolescence, which is teen hood, right? Like those are like your teen years. And so matressence is a time period of like when a woman becomes a mom. So it is literally like this beautiful identity shift of like the birth of motherhood essentially. And so like it's for forever, right? Because like you are learning to

be a mom, like who are you again? Just as like an adolescence, we learn about how to be a human, how to be a teenager. It's the same thing with this beautiful transformative process as well.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (09:32.884)
OK, so is it talking about this shift? I'm curious. I would love to hear a little more about it. I haven't heard of it before. That's really beautiful. I love the way you describe it.

Vickie (09:39.928)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think like with regard to the matressens, like it's really a term that we can use when it describes like the physical, emotional, hormonal and like social transition. A woman just goes through when becoming a mother. So it's, as I said, like I compare it to adolescence because it's a profound identity shift and it encompasses like all of our relationships, our identity. How do we view ourselves? Like the transformation our bodies go through.

also encompassing, like I said, that psychological and emotional shift, because not only are we maybe like in some way women are grieving the loss of like their independence, even though like perhaps this is something that they've been wanting for the longest time. And sometimes like I think they say like 50 % of pregnancies are unexpected, whether they're planned or unplanned. So like you go through this transition of grief, you go into this period of joy, also confusion.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (10:24.04)
Yeah.

Vickie (10:41.452)
that loss of your former self. Also kind of like renegotiating your roles within your family. So who are you as a partner? Who are you as a friend? Where do you stand in your career? And also to like, again, this conflictual relationship of like, loving motherhood, but also like grieving and mourning who you used to be. So like that is kind of that

encompassing transformation stepping into motherhood.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (11:15.156)
Yeah, that's interesting because I feel like I did not feel like a person for a really long time. It was just the mom hat and it was like there's no Carrie hat. There's just mom. How often how long do most moms go through that? Or I mean, what would you say about I'm sure it's per person, but I was curious.

Vickie (11:22.542)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Vickie (11:33.646)
I feel like that's something like forever. Like once you are a mom, like you're in this period. And so I think like however long it I think takes to kind of find your identity again, everyone is different, right? Because like some women wholly see themselves as like only mom and there's nothing wrong with that. But for some women, there is this like yearning of like, who am I besides just this title of mom?

Carrie @ H2H Parents (11:47.912)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Vickie (12:01.408)
And so like really just stepping into like learning about yourself again. What do I like? What do I not enjoy anymore? How have I changed?

Carrie @ H2H Parents (12:14.772)
That's beautiful. you know, I think also with the loss of that too is when I came back and figured, found myself again too, there was this feeling of finding a flow state again that you miss out on so much. Maybe you're in a flow state when you're nursing baby or when you get to take baby to a play date. You can find flow states as a mom, but I feel like it's so different from when I could find it for myself.

Vickie (12:26.766)
Okay.

Vickie (12:31.694)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (12:36.6)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (12:40.154)
Mm Yeah, I think it's really like so individual because finding those flow states and it's tapping into like what brings you joy? What gives you that passion? Again, and sometimes it's getting quiet and I know it's really hard to find like those quiet moments when we are so in the thick of it and so busy and you know, in routine and schedule, whether you have

a new infant at home or whether you have toddlers, just, everyone is kind of on their own timeline and however that might look like for their families. But I think like it's really just being able to find those quiet moments and figure out like what gives me joy again, like who am I? Other than mom, who am I?

Carrie @ H2H Parents (13:23.156)
That's beautiful. yeah, it is. It is so personal to each person. So when we're when we're I think it comes with all eras that we have the overwhelm. I was going to ask you your favorite or some things that you would say about managing the overwhelm. But I feel like I feel it even with the 10 year old who's now starting to.

Vickie (13:27.276)
Mm-hmm.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (13:44.053)
find his own independence a little bit, starting to resist our gluten-free, dairy-free versions. He's like, no, mom, I don't want to do that anymore. You're so strict. Why won't you let me play eight video games a day? Why won't you? We're like, one little hour a week is what you get, buddy. And it's a social experience with mom or dad. So yeah, I feel like that overwhelm just kind of transforms as they go along. And I'm sure it evolves into adulthood. I'm sure you still feel pieces of that as a mom.

Vickie (13:55.672)
Yeah. Yes.

Vickie (14:11.412)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think like overwhelm is a very real thing and for various reasons, right? Because I think like there is this like societal almost acceptance for moms where it's like we're almost expected to have like this.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (14:13.886)
What are your thoughts on it?

Vickie (14:31.334)
sense of burnout and like it's accepted to always feel like we're guilty over something and overwhelmed and experiencing rage, which like nobody wants to talk about, right? Like all the things. And so I think for all of us just really trying to figure out again, how do you deal with that overwhelm for you and everybody is an individual. And so again, it's going back to like what has once helped you before? Like I love just getting

it sometimes and just having like those five minutes a day for myself maybe in the morning. Like finding a routine that works and also being able to if you have support or whatever that looks like how can you delegate some things because like we are not superheroes like I'd like to think that we are but like we we need help we can't do it alone. So yeah just like figuring out how do we delegate like taking care of yourself and I don't

ever like wanted, you know, sometimes like we'll talk about, like self care, it's a very important thing. But it's also not like the lavish stuff, right? It's like those micro habits to dealing with the overwhelm like body before brain like pausing and like taking care of yourself physically, sometimes like am I eating? Am I drinking? Am I taking a few deep breaths? Am I being conscious and like intentional with my days and moments?

taking those little breaks, lowering the bar sometimes because I think sometimes we're very overwhelmed because like our expectations are up here not only for ourselves but for our kids, for our spouses or partners but it's like sometimes we really have to like ask ourselves like what actually do I need to get done today versus like what am I pressuring myself to do today.

And then finally, like I think just talking to someone like getting help and in whatever capacity that looks like I think those are like really important to be able to manage that.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (16:27.764)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love how you mentioned about the self-care. think so often we hear self-care and we think, it has to be like a spa day or a facial or something really, really expensive. But really just presence, feel like, is such one that I love to bring up because any of those basic human pieces you're talking about, hydration, nutrition, like exercise, all those basic human pieces.

Vickie (16:40.856)
with her.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (16:57.416)
being present in our minds and connected to ourselves instead of thinking about the to-do list or my son has a big assignment to turn in in third grade. These things that you could be zoned into, but really being present and mindful when you do have these moments, these small moments of self-care. I love that.

Vickie (17:06.798)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's all.

Vickie (17:18.624)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think too, like, we oftentimes are constantly like on our phones or again on like social media and like we're constantly bombarded with like the dopamine hits, right? And it's like,

even almost like programming in to manage that overwhelm by putting the phone away, putting it in airplane mode, putting it in a drawer, because like, I think we can tune out and almost like disassociate a little bit on our phones. But really, we need to put that away, quiet the mind like that can actually help us really work through that overwhelm.

because again, we're constantly bombarded by our kids crying, by this needs to be done, the dishes need to be done, everything. And then it's like, again, we dissociate on our phone. And then again, that's just more bombardment, more noise. So I think just like being very conscientious of that could really help so many of us.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (18:12.494)
I that. think when we're, when we think that being on our phone and scrolling, doom scrolling is not self care. If you're on, I always like to say if you're on a device, it doesn't count.

Vickie (18:24.13)
Yes, yeah, I love that.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (18:26.516)
Yeah, yeah. So what would you say, have you found any top areas where you feel like mom couldn't use support or they could use help? What do you think?

Vickie (18:36.128)
I think it's just helping with that mental load. I think that is a really big thing that keeps coming up time and time again is like moms are very overwhelmed by that silent.

to-do list and the mental load and all the things they have to do and I think dealing with the difficult emotions I think like that support is really important because so many of us walk around carrying like that shame that guilt so I think support around that

and having some kind of community. And it doesn't have to be in like the most traditional sense, like our lives, you know, a lot of us don't live very close to family. So the support can look in very non-traditional ways. It doesn't always have to be mom and dad down the street, but it could be maybe a support person, a church. Maybe it could be someone within your yoga studio. Maybe it's a neighbor, like however that looks like it's okay. doesn't have to be.

how we envisioned it sometimes, but I think we could all use support. Even if it's like one person, it can go a long way.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (19:45.941)
That's really helpful to think about. Yeah, I feel like a lot of our family does not live close to us. So yeah, thinking about building the community and helping each other out is wonderful. It's really interesting because I feel like the era that you and I are raising our kids in, it's different than the era we grew up in where I never saw my mom asking for help. I never saw my mom doing self-care.

Vickie (20:10.798)
you

Carrie @ H2H Parents (20:15.152)
I feel like when we were growing up, there was pressure there for, know, everybody had their housing and our food. We had all of these things, but I feel like it's so common now. We try to do, there's so many dual income families, but you're trying also to be healthy. You're trying to be.

Vickie (20:29.902)
Thank

Carrie @ H2H Parents (20:33.79)
Present with your kids at every soccer game at every birthday party you're trying to Create community like there's so much as you keep adding these on because now we're also adding mindful parenting and conscious parenting on with Needing the double dual incomes with this very expensive cost of living now for our generation. So I love what you're saying

Vickie (20:42.317)
huh.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Vickie (20:58.412)
Yeah, you're so right. It's such a different time to be alive and to raising kids because I think like life was so much simpler back in the day.

My family, when I was little, we immigrated to the United States, so I'm not born and raised here. But, you my mom always talks back. She's like, we didn't have all of these things. We didn't have you guys in like a million activities. Like life was truly simpler. She's like, we didn't have a car. We didn't have cell phones. She's like, I walked to the market to get our groceries.

And she's like, people were so much more better off. Like people didn't experience all of this, very young anxiety and things like that. And it's true. Like I think sometimes we, we overfill our own schedules on our, you know, calendars ourselves. So it's like, how do we make more conscious decisions around like what we want in our life and not just because like we feel like we have to do.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (21:36.649)
Yes.

Vickie (21:53.9)
like all these extra things. Because half the time, like our kids too, I'm like, you know, you sign them up for all these things. Do they actually really enjoy these things? Or are they just going because we're shuffling them to and from?

Carrie @ H2H Parents (21:54.003)
Yes.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (22:05.682)
Yes, and are we signing them up for eight different activities because of fear that they're not going to get into college or they're not going to, you know, they have to be the best at everything because there is so much pressure now placed onto parents that we did not have when we were small. So yeah, I love that description. That's really, that's a beautiful way to grow up in that simplistic version. My husband and I always say, so we were

Vickie (22:13.102)
Yes.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (22:34.366)
growing up elementary age in the 90s. So we always say before the internet, so we always try to say in our house, we want to raise them in the 90s. We want to raise them in this simple childhood version.

Vickie (22:38.744)
Mm-hmm.

Vickie (22:45.358)
Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (22:46.932)
It's like an edited 90s, though, because we also want to be very conscious about our connection with them and teaching them the connection with themselves. So I love how you're describing before the computers and the cell phones and all these extra experiences that we think our kids need to be in. It's so wonderful when we can be the example for them, because I think our kids, I mean, we know our kids are watching what we're doing. They're picking up.

Vickie (22:54.157)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Vickie (23:01.324)
Yeah.

Thank

Vickie (23:10.072)
Thank

Carrie @ H2H Parents (23:16.532)
There are also some type of energetic ideas there of them picking up our nervousness, picking up our anxiety. So many of the books talk about anxious kids, but really, is it anxious parents?

Vickie (23:22.476)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

us.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Because I think like oftentimes, like you're saying, they're watching us, they are learning from us. I mean, we are there like, their light into how to live, essentially, right. And so, you know, one of the things that I like to talk a lot about, whether it's on my social media page, or with like clients, is like breaking those generational patterns that a lot of us have grown up with things that like, we don't want to pass on to our children. So it's like, it's tapping into those things, like what can we

Teach them.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (24:01.31)
Yeah, you know, I was just talking to my hairdresser the other day when I was getting a haircut, and I was describing to her when I grew up, my mom was a working mom, and my husband's mom was a working mom too. And our parents did the best they could, and we ate a lot of tuna helper. We ate a lot of the easy things, because our moms were working moms. And now we feel like.

Vickie (24:17.934)
Yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (24:25.19)
It's so we know so much about nutrition. So we're trying no food color, no dairy, no gluten. In our house, we notice those things make a difference. So it's been really hard for my husband and I to understand meal planning. OK, we're going to cook two meals on Saturday night, two meals on Saturday. We're going to double our batch. So that way we have it for the weekdays. And we can heat it up. We're doing activities, especially as your kids get bigger and you have more activities where you're driving around to different things.

Vickie (24:28.034)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah? Nice.

Thank you.

yeah.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (24:53.394)
Yeah, so it's really interesting because I feel like we're having to pave the path. It's a new path. like, how do we do this?

Vickie (24:58.254)
Yeah, it's a lot and that in itself is overwhelming, right? And so it's like, I think we are trying to do better. And I think like that is a really beautiful thing. And also I think that's like what creates some of those challenges and like the conflicts, like you said, for your kids too, because like, maybe not all families and homes are doing the things the way that you are. And so they're seeing that and you're like, but this is our home and like,

kind of giving them the thoughts of like why you're doing the things that you guys are doing consciously within your home. Like every home can make their own decisions and that's okay, but this is like why we're trying to instill these values. And so like really teaching them, I think those foundations.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (25:46.517)
I wish I would have recorded actually I am recording but I should pull out that piece just for my 10 year old. It's okay buddy, Vicky said that every family has their own rules. So even though everybody else is playing Minecraft right now, we are going to be playing Mario Kart on Saturdays for one hour.

Vickie (25:51.435)
Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Nice.

Yes, yes, I love that. I love it because at the end of the day, like we all are going to have different roles and it's okay. It's okay. And it'll make sense one day. It doesn't make sense right now, perhaps, but when they're older, it will. And I think like we as parents probably went through that as well. Like maybe when we were teenagers, we had all these thoughts. And then when we grew up, we're like, that's why like maybe mom or dad did that. And it makes sense. We appreciate it when we're much older and out of the thick of it. So.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (26:33.49)
Yeah, I was talking to a girlfriend recently, and we were talking about there's like this balance between, know, if we are a spiritual parent, if we are a conscious parent, there's following your child, but then there's also.

If your child is going down a path that you feel like is not the best path, you're trying to help them realign. But then you're also trying to be conscious of their own journey that they are creating in their own, that they are guided towards. So it's just this. And I always love to say, think in my house is one of the big ones is just don't go to the extremes. Try to take a neutral path that feels good for us.

Vickie (27:07.31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm Yeah, I really love that perspective because yeah, it's like it is their own journey that they're taking and also you want to protect because you know, like what could be on the outside of those things too. So it's figuring out that balance for them. have to they're separate from us. They have to experience their own stuff. But you also as a parent, you know, and you don't want anything like

You don't want them to also have to like learn all the things the hard way too, because you know and you want to protect them and you love them so much.

Carrie @ H2H Parents (27:42.832)
human journey as moms. Well, Vicki, will you share with us about your groups? And I would love to link those in our notes as well for our listeners.

Vickie (27:43.916)
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Vickie (27:54.154)
Yeah, absolutely. so my, I'm usually on Instagram. my, social media handle or whatever is simply real motherhood. And so, my support group that I run, it's a virtual support group for moms. And it's really for anyone who's in like that fourth trimester beyond. Sometimes I have moms join who are currently like in their third trimester and they're kind of like preparing for that fourth trimester, which I always encourage. I think it's a wonderful thing. And so that is something that runs weekly. So you can check that out.

my page. And then also in the state of Illinois, I provide counseling virtually or in person. And then also providing like holistic health and wellness coaching along with that mental health piece, United States based for like really moms who are in the fourth trimester and like just really trying to focus on nourishing like their whole mama wellness and health. So

Carrie @ H2H Parents (28:48.34)
Beautiful, that's such a, so much support and I can see you're gonna need your self care time as well. As a busy mom. Well thank you so much for connecting with us today, it was such an honor.

Vickie (28:53.23)
Yeah, yeah,

Vickie (28:59.49)
Thank you, thank you so much for having me, Carrie. I look forward to connecting more, so thank you.