Ep. 87 Is Mold Making You Sick: An Interview with JF Healthy Homes

Is Your Home Making You Sick? Mold, EMFs & Hidden Root Causes with Jonathan from JF Healthy Homes

Welcome back to The Balanced Hormone Solution Podcast. In this special episode, Tracy shares a powerful conversation originally recorded inside the Balanced Hormone Collective with Jonathan from JF Healthy Homes.

Jonathan is a certified mold remediator and healthy home consultant who helps families identify hidden environmental stressors inside their homes — including mold, mycotoxins, EMFs, humidity issues, HVAC contamination, poor ventilation, and more.

This conversation is especially timely as Tracy shares her own personal experience navigating a local move, home inspections, and unexpected mold concerns in a home her family hoped to move into. What started as a dream home quickly became a reminder that our living environment can play a massive role in our health, hormones, immune system, and ability to heal.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your home could be contributing to fatigue, brain fog, chronic inflammation, hormone symptoms, autoimmune flares, respiratory issues, or unexplained health struggles, this episode will give you a practical and grounded place to start.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why your home environment matters when looking for root causes of chronic symptoms
• The difference between a mold allergy and mold toxicity
• Why mold exposure can affect one person in a household while others feel completely fine
• Common signs of mold toxicity, including brain fog, fatigue, joint pain, skin issues, and immune dysregulation
• How mold, mycotoxins, biotoxins, and environmental stressors can impact hormone health
• Why women and children are often the first in the home to show symptoms
• What a healthy home inspection actually looks like
• Why air samples alone may not tell the whole story
• The importance of checking HVAC systems, crawl spaces, showers, sinks, windows, and hidden wall cavities
• Why mold should be removed — not “killed” or fogged
• What to do when you discover a leak or water damage
• Simple ways to reduce mold risk in your home
• How humidity, ventilation, and dust impact indoor air quality
• Why opening windows and bringing in fresh air can be a powerful tool
• How EMFs and dirty electricity may contribute to health issues
• Why nervous system regulation matters when recovering from mold exposure

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

0:00

Welcome back to The Balanced Hormone Solution. I am your host, Tracy Aaron, and I have a special episode for you right now. I have been waiting for the right time to share this episode, which is actually a recording that I did with Jonathan from JF Healthy Homes back in February earlier this year in 2026. I brought him on to speak to my Balanced Hormone collective group of gals who are interested in hormone health from a root cause perspective, and Jonathan just did a fantastic job walking us through some of the common environmental issues that we might run into with our health that have everything to do with the home that we are living in. So we talked in depth about things like mold and EMFs and other dangers that are lurking in our home environments. Now, the reason why I'm bringing this back and sharing this with you is because of my current situation right now. I have been a little bit quiet online. If you're a regular listener, you maybe have noticed. I have tried to post here and there, but it's hard to do all the things, and one of those things is to move my family. We have been in our current home for the last 11 years. It's been a tremendous blessing to be in this home. My baby, who just turned 11 last Friday, was born in this home. We've raised our kids here. We kinda call it the younger years. It's a very special home to us. Well, we have decided our family is ready for the next step in life. The next step in the chapter of whatever our future holds is opening before us, and that includes a local move just about 10 miles away. We found a home that we fell in love with. I don't know if you can relate to this, but I walked right in the front door on the day that we saw it, and something inside of me said and felt like, "This is home." This is home. I saw my children running up and down the staircase. I saw myself cooking in the kitchen. I saw us enjoying coffee on the front porch, all of the things. It felt like home. Well, almost three full months later, we are still trying to make that home our home, and in the process, through repairs, and resolution, and inspections, and all of these things, we brought in Jonathan from JF Healthy Homes to do a more thorough mold inspection, and the report came back slightly alarming. But we felt encouraged that we could go ahead and move forward if we could get this work done, and we've been in the middle of this right now, and I will share more in the future about the outcome of that. However, this conversation is still relevant for today. So that is my long-winded introduction to Jonathan with JF Healthy Homes. I wanna bring this conversation back to the forefront and hope that you can learn something too about the discussion that we had. It's still relevant today for me. It's definitely relevant for you. Something that might not be on your radar, and I really encourage you to listen all the way through so you get an i- get an idea of really what some of the insidious giants we're up against when it comes to finding root causes of symptoms. All right. Without further ado, let me go ahead and play this Balanced Hormone Collective interview with JF Healthy Homes, and I hope you enjoy. I would love to hear in the comment section what your thoughts are. Take care.

Speaker 3:44

Welcome tonight to the Balance Hormone, um, Collective, which is our monthly membership. And tonight we have a special guest speaker, Jonathan, who is with JF Healthy Homes. He actually lives in Tennessee in my area. We met online a couple months ago, and we've chatted back and forth several times, and I think he is the perfect guest to bring on to the Collective's conversation about how we can address our health, especially hormone health, from a root cause perspective. So we're going to chat with Jonathan. As he's talking, I want him first to introduce himself, tell us his story, how he got involved in becoming a certified mold remediator. And, um, we'll talk a little bit about the difference between mold allergy and mold toxicity. I think this is such a key difference for us to understand, um, in the whole greater conversation of whether or not mold is a part of, uh, why we get sick or why we stay sick, just our overall picture. So I'm gonna introduce him. He'll share his story. Be thinking of questions that you might wanna ask about anything related to mold toxicity. What is a biotoxin illness? Even EMF, he does EMF testing. And, um, you know, re- remediation techniques maybe that you can DIY yourself, all the way up to what does it look like to hire somebody like JF Healthy Homes? What do they do when they actually come in, and what does that whole process look like? All right. So, um, let's just dive in. Jonathan, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, and I would love to hear, um, your, your story about how most of us stumble into this world by, um, personal experience, unfortunately. And so we get to the other side and we go... We turn around and look back and go, "I have got to help people out of the hell I just walked through." And it becomes such a passion project, especially when you've survived something as, um, life-changing as mold illness. So Jonathan, tell us about yourself, your business, and how you got involved in, um, inspecting homes.

Speaker 2 6:21

Awesome. Thank you so much, Tracy, and thank you again for having me. It's a great opportunity and, um, just to spread awareness and, and, you know, knowledge share is really important because there's just so much out there. Uh, a lot of fear-mongering, a lot of misinformation, uh, some great information, but it's all kind of in this echo chamber of noise that we know as social media, and it can get very confusing, misleading, and overwhelming. Um, so really our goal, like first and foremost with clients, is to cut down on a lot of that, cut down on all of that if we can, and just provide solutions, right? And that looks different for everyone. Um, everyone's at a different state, stage in their life or in, in their finances or their ability to, uh, kinda recoup and, and remediate these things from EMFs to mold. So, um, really the goal of what we do is, is not just in the inspection, but also in the, uh, takeaways and the ongoing advocacy, right? So I can al- get, talk about that a little bit more. Um, but yeah, it's just like you said, Tracy, it is, it is astounding, um, you know, going to Building Biology Institute and, and learning there. Almost every single person that I come into contact with who, um Who does this, this kind of work or is in, in the health-related fields like we are, um, has their own personal kind of health story with it, right? And it's, I hate to see it, but it's also kind of incredible, uh, the, the passion that, that comes out of it, right? Um, and wanting to help other people. So it's kind of a beautiful thing that's born out of a not so lovely, beautiful thing. Um, but it's, it always is surprising and refreshing to see how people change that, turn that around to help others. So, um, yeah, I really respect that and, and, and appreciate that. Um, about 15 years ago, I grew up in California, grew up in a 1920s home, plaster, uh, beautiful home, but we, we know now that beautiful doesn't equate to safe or healthy, right? Unfortunately. Um, and, and there's a lot to talk about there with building and, and building biology and science, uh, which we can get into if you'd like. But, uh, yeah, so I grew up in this home. Um, we always had mold problems, right? There was a lot of, a lot of damage, uh, in the home we knew of. I just, at that time I was, you know, younger and I didn't really know much about it. But, um, uh, through, through some connection, I was able to start going to, um, Dr. Thoring, he's out in Pismo Beach. So I started on the, the Shoemaker protocol pretty young, around my 20s. Um, and that was helping a lot, right? I was getting a lot of these toxins removed and, um, and I was kind of leveling out my, my system a lot more. Uh, and then right as that was kind of progressing, uh, my parents decided to install, uh, solar panels in the house. So the way that my room was, I was at a, a top level and we had a flat roof, another major issue, build- building flaw of this home. Uh, they decided to install these solar panels right around it, right? So not only did they puncture, uh, the roof, right, with a lot of these penetrations for the solar, which we see a lot in clients' homes and a lot of, uh, main issues and concerns for water damage and water intrusion. Uh, but they now introduced the whole EMF aspect, right? Or electromagnetic frequency aspect. Uh, in building biology, we're taught to say electromagnetic radiation. I say EMF 'cause it's more of the kind of buzzword that's, that's more known, well known. Um, but with solar panels comes a lot of EMF consideration, specifically with dirty electricity. Um, that's, uh, you know, EMF kinda gets complicated, but essentially dirty electricity is, is what it sounds like, right? It's transients that's riding on our electricity to our house. And things that add to that can be, uh, anything we plug in, sources we plug in, specifically with switch, switch mode power supplies, like a laptop brick is a switch mode pow- power supply that's constantly switching modes and back loading onto our wiring. But solar panels specifically are, we've come to find out, are very detrimental and, um- aggregate a lot of, uh, a lot of, um, dirty electricity because of the way they function, right? They're DC to AC, direct current to alternating current, so they're constantly switching through inverters. Um, and there's some that are worse than others. There's some that are better than others. Just kinda depends on those inverters, how they're made, if they're micro inverters or not. Uh, but come to find out, I think just through a lot of pondering and, uh, you know, when that happened, my health tanked completely. I became s- extremely depressed, could not sleep anymore, insomniatic, uh, I mean, to the point of, like, literally suicide ideation, just things that were super unusual. Um, and, and I started kind of linking that to what was, what was happening at that time, and it was the solar panels, right? So I started delving into EMF about 15 years ago and, um, measuring and, and sure enough, those solar panels had loaded an immense amount of dirty electricity onto our wiring that was specifically affecting my sleeping area primarily. So, um, I was able to mitigate that, uh, to, to an extent. And then, um, fast-forward, had, had a daughter, moved out to Nashville, uh, and then moved into this house that we're in now. And, uh, you know, EMF was great. I knew a lot about that at that time. Uh, but we moved into a home that had some hidden mold in the wall. So a good amount of Stachybotrys, which is, you know, the toxic black mold, really high in mycotoxin output of trichos, which is very, very harmful to our health in a number of ways. Um, and started getting immensely ill once again. Had no one to turn to, had no answers, hired some of the best people and, and still had no answers. And, um, I started going to Building Biology Institute right around that time, three years ago, and kind of teaching myself everything that, uh, we now do at JF Healthy Homes, uh, for the purpose of helping families who are in those dire situations and, um, have so much frustration and so much, uh, kind of lack of answers to try and help them avoid some of the same mistakes that we made and some of the same heartaches and, and, uh, financial stressors and, and really all of those different aspects. Uh, try and provide them answers and a clear-cut path on how to, uh, to get to their, their home to a healthier living space in all aspects, mold, biotoxins, EMF, air, water, uh, really the whole ecosystem of the home and that's what JF Healthy Homes is all about. Live Better Indoors is our, is our motto and slogan, and that's, uh, that's really what we, what we stand by. So kind of a, a abridged version of my illness story.

Speaker 12:30

Okay, so I'm dying to know. Did, did, uh, so you cleaned up your living environment and it, and it's safe now for your family?

Speaker 2 12:38

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so we, yeah, we went through a pretty long remediation 'cause of the Stachybotrys was, essentially it was two sides of my house, ex- both exterior walls, um, that were just completely flooded, like black. We pulled off the walls and it's completely black. We had a failed remediation first before I knew any better, lost a bunch of money there. Um, and then we had just a bunch of gas lighting. I call them, uh, pump jockeys. People just come in with an air sampler and test the air and tell you, "Everything's good." Because Stachybotrys is such a heavy, dense, sticky mold, you typically don't get that on air samplers, just ambient air samples, right? And again, none of this is to spread fear and be like, "You probably have mold behind your walls," right? Like, it's just to spread awareness and to try and save people from going down those paths, right? Or, or to try and recalibrate the thinking. Um, but yeah, we, we ended up getting everything fixed. We pulled out the whole kitchen. We were without a kitchen for, I think, a year and a half, just due to some other things going on. And, um, I mean, it was a blessing, right? Because I learned a lot through that. Um, and now I see, like, the purpose of, of everything was to try and put me through that pain so I can help people from a deep place of empathy and understanding, and, and really going through it myself. Um, but yeah, now the home is, you know, back to a good state. There's... I will say there's no such thing as 100% mold-free home. What, what we want is a, you know, condition one, normal fungal ecology in line with nature. The problem resides is when we have water damage, right? Which is a- again, back to building biology, back to building science, and issues we're having in our homes, um, and then the maintenance of the home, right? So, there's a lot to be considered there, but, um, I think, like, the fear, the fear factor around mold has kinda skewed things a lot, where it's like there has to be zero, zero, zero mold in the home. And realistically, I mean, we're gonna go outside and then come right back inside. You bring in mold spores with you, right? So we're, we're not meant to live in a clean room, uh, you know, HEPA, HEPA grade, hospital grade living environment, right? We wanna, we wanna have ourselves exposed to some of these things so that we can, our biology can function properly. Um, but there's a lot of issues and a lot of toxins, not just mold, that we're up against. And I think in, in my hypothesis and my experience, a lot of this, these issues are compounded on one another, and now we're dealing with a, with a toxic soup that's spilling over into disease and illness, right? So, long-winded answer, yes, the house is good now. I think there's still some other areas of concern and, and stuff we're looking into. But, um, but yeah, we're, we're going through it and, and, you know, making changes step by step.

Speaker 15:03

Awesome. Yeah, I feel like there's a spectrum of people that I run into anyway. There's, on one hand, there's people who are like, you know, has to be a perfect living environment, zero mold spores, they've got filters in every single thing, they've done everything to 100,000%. And then there's people who don't even believe mold exists because mold's been around forever, it's the most ancient species, and it can't possibly be mold 'cause what did our grandfathers do? And, uh, and, and it's like straight up denial. It's like we wanna find ourselves somewhere in between here with, like, a real, uh, stable view of is mold affecting me? And 'cause it's, it's so true. This is what I find in my practice. I deal mostly with women. I do see men, it's mostly older sons or husbands of my female clients. And, um, what I find more than not is it's the woman in the house who gets sick first.

Speaker 2 15:58

Yep.

Speaker 15:59

And a lot of times that is difficult in a marriage because the woman feels like crap, and she's just thinking, "Oh, it must just be my hormones 'cause that's the one thing that's different from me than him." Yeah. And he's like, "I feel fine. Is- there's no way we're gonna spend the money on a remediator because, uh, if it were really that big of a deal, we would all be sick," and that's not necessarily true. This is such a huge discussion and we can't possibly address all of it 'cause we know a lot about genetic factors that predispose particularly women to not being able to being poor detoxers essentially. And then we do have a, a hormone layer on top of that. And then there you get a husband and wife who, living in the exact same environment, one is deathly ill and one is totally fine, and how do you move forward? It's, it's crazy. But I just wanna share this, uh, infographic I found really fast online, if you can see this on my screen, um, really quick, and then I want you to, to go back to this. But for educational purposes, for anybody who wants to talk about mold as if it is just something that makes you sneeze, that is called a mold allergy. A mold allergy is a very real thing, and it's the type of exposure that you get and you have an immediate reaction. You walk into an old musty closet, you're cleaning baseboards, spring cleaning, all of a sudden you start sneezing all the time. You know, you, you got, like, some kind of inhalant typically into your lungs, and all of a sudden you have an immediate IgE reaction. Very similar to a food sensitivity where you eat something and you start sneezing. You eat something, your lips start tingling, that kind of thing. That is not- mycotoxin toxicity. That is strictly an immediate reaction, and it is a mold allergy, and you can have one without having the other. But the thing that I wanna draw our attention to on this slide and why I think it's such a big deal when we consider root cause, um, f- functional medicine is, like, look down here at the symptom differences. So one's, like, sneezing, you might get a rash, and you might have, like, wheezing, right? It's it This is the accepted model of mold exposure, but then you got this whole other thing that is truly an immune reaction and most often can turn into an autoimmune component where you have this cascade of responses in the body that become difficult to diagnose and, and identify over time, especially if you don't have any of these mold allergy symptoms. You think, "Oh, that can't possibly be mold. I don't sneeze. I'm breathing fine." But what about, like, brain fog, joint pain, or, like, just feeling chronically fatigued? And yes, you can get, uh, skin issues and all that kinda thing. But one is an immune, like, um, remodeling of the body, and one is a short-term reaction, and we can experience both or only one, or one and then much later have a delayed response. And often, like I said, this shows up in women and in children and, um, a- a- and it does in men as well, but it's just not as Th- they're Women seem to be the canary in the gold mine, coal mine. We're, we're the ones who, who, uh, w- w- our bodies, um, tattle on environment quicker than others in the home most often. So anyway, just wanted to share that just to say if you're thinking of mold in terms of your own life experience, I want you to think of it in terms of allergy versus toxicity And toxicity is the type of scenario that builds up in the body over time. Um, my personal story involves mold exposure that I thought was nothing. I brushed it off for a long period of time. There's... Everybody has mold in their window sills. What's the big deal? Everybody has mold in their crawl space, and yeah, you gotta clean the drain in the shower a little bit more often, but what's the big deal? And then it morphed into chronic fatigue, Lyme disease diagnosis. I took every single treatment there was available, minus years of antibiotics. I knew I wasn't gonna do that. But it was not until I completely addressed mold in my body that all of a sudden didn't have any diagnoses anymore. And mold is one of those types of things where it truly it can be a root cause issue, where if you unburden the immune system, all of a sudden we can handle opportunistic infections, uh, in a, in a way that we couldn't before when we were just drowning with immune de- suppression. So, um, so anyway, um, Jonathan, tell us about, like, what type of client calls you? Where do you start with people? You do homes. Like, you test homes, and I test bodies. So, um, and, and in my opinion, we need both Right? We need, we need, I wanna know, like, how much mold are you burdened with? But it's almost not the full picture because we don't know what the environment that you're stuck in is contributing to the whole thing. So when you get a new client and you walk into a home, like, tell us your process.

Speaker 2 22:00

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. No, that's, that's really, uh, an important point, Tracy, is that there are two... I always tell people, like, there's two ecosystems, right? There's the home environment, and then there's our body, and they're very similar, right? And they interact with one another, and they can make or break one another essentially, right? So having a client, when they first come to us, a lot of our clients, I would say most of our clients come to us out of health symptoms, right? That's the primary thing. We typically deal with CIRS, chronic inflammatory response syndrome, MCAS, mast cell activation, uh, EHS, even electromagnetic hypersensitivity, um, even, even chemical sensitivities, like, just these different titles for illnesses, right, that are from our environment essentially, or caused by our environment, perpetuated by it. So, um, we get a lot of people who are seeking, uh, answers to why they feel so terrible in their homes, or if it is their homes that's making them sick, right? Um, and a lot of times that comes with prior testing from, um, experts like yourself, Tracy, that, you know, we have some mycotoxin results, or we have mold results, or we have all these different markers for CIRS. Um, and that helps us, right? Because it helps us to kind of dial in, like, what we're looking for. What is it, what is really vital, what is, what could be in the environment, right? 'Cause it's not always from that home. It could be from somewhere else, too, right? Or it could even be from foods that they're, that they're eating, right? Aflatoxin, ochratoxin can come from a lot of different foods or coffee, right? So there's a lot to it and, and to your point, I think that's just, it's, it's such a good and important point because we really need, like, the whole picture of everything, and I always tell people, like- You know, data, any set of data is important, right? People are like hellbent on if the ERMI is better or if the ERMI is not good, and it's like, it's just another data point. It's not the end-all be-all solution, but it's a data point, right? So we can talk a little bit about that. But, um, yeah, typically when clients are coming to us, you know, they want answers for their home. Maybe they have a home history of leaks or something. Maybe they have some previous exposures. But a lot of times, like, it's pretty interesting because a lot of people come to us and they already, like, kind of have done a lot of their homework. They've already gone down the path of, of like, you know, the, uh, uh, pulling this, this sweater string and unraveling the truth a bit. So, um, it's pretty wild. A lot of our clients are like, sometimes even more knowledgeable than, than us, I feel, which is awesome, you know, because it's like it takes-- like you, you're the biggest advocate for your own health at the end of the day. Um, but yeah, they come to us with those concerns and, and then, you know, we talk to them, give a, give a consult and kind of see how we can help and, and plan out an assessment. Um, we don't really do like hourly things. Like a lot of times we'll do pre-purchase inspections for people who have been exposed to mold previously or EMF previously, and they wanna make sure the next place they're going into is healthy. Um, but a lot of our work is just assessing homes that people are living in and, uh, that could be anywhere from 8 to 12-hour days, right? Just looking at every single aspect of the home, outside, inside, building envelope, measuring all these different aspects to see, you know, the expansive view of what could be harming the health, not just, not just mold. Right now we're talking about biotoxins like endotoxins. Uh, we're talking about ac- actinomycetes, EMF, all these different things, right? Because we wanna see the full picture and we wanna get an idea of what's, uh, you know, harming the inhabitant's health so that we can give proper solutions on how to lower those things and fix them and have them feeling better, to live better ultimately, right? Or if it's even a problem that's fixable, right? A lot of times with EMF There's issues, not a lot of times, but EMF sometimes there are issues that are not fixable. They're coming in from outside and it's like a move or, or kind of stay in this, um, area and, and probably not feel so great in the long run. Some stuff is shieldable, but not, not everything. So, um, so yeah, it kind of spans, you know, there's, there's different, uh, people looking for different things. A lot of what we do too is new construction, uh, consultation for building properly, uh, in a way that's supportive of the natural environment around, and that can really either, um, prevent a lot of these issues from occurring in the future or at least have systems in place to know when they occur and have materials that are less likely to be growing mold so crazily. But also just looking at building dynamics and really planning and working with their builder and the architect and all the designers and everything to make sure it's a, it's a healthy home design. So, um, yeah, it spans kind of across different universes, but ultimately we're, we're usually in homes just assessing and scouring to see, uh, where we, where we find issues and, and following those to the root cause. To your point, right, the home is an ecosystem, so follow the signs and symptoms, and then we find the root cause, and we fix the root cause. Uh, don't just treat the mold, don't just kill the mold, but remove the mold and, uh, make sure we have a healthy living space, uh, afterwards

Speaker 26:36

So l- so let's get real practical. You, you walk in the house, like, let's say it's my house, and I'm like, "I'm sick. All my kids are sick. We think it's mold." What, you I'm assuming first you're gonna do a visual inspection. Yeah. And then are you going to use any kind of tools? Like, how will you know if I have Stachybotrys behind my walls or underneath tile in a shower? What is the process of, um, like, finding the hidden culprit look like?

Speaker 2 27:08

Yeah, great question. Yeah, so I mean, typically we'll, we'll have, like, a little awareness of, at least, like, a bit of awareness of what's going on in the home, some of the details around the home, age, that kind of stuff prior. Um, when we show up, it's, it's, you know, have the, have the client walk us through the home, show us different areas of concern, kind of give us a history, and that's, like, where you start to find a lot of the client starting to remember a lot of things too is when you're there and you're actually looking visually at, at areas. So we kind of mark those down, like, okay, these are, like, the primary areas. Sometimes you go in and they're like, "I have no idea." Like, "I just know there's, like, something here," or, "It's in my body," or, "I don't even know if there's something here," you know? I'm like, "That's what we're, we want you guys here for." So it, it kind of spans again, but, um, yeah, once we sit down and kind of talk with them, go through the house, then we usually start our assessment on the outside of the building, um, 'cause I always say, like, looking on the outside will tell you what's going on in the inside a lot of times. So looking at the building envelope, drainage, uh, roofing. We'll even get up on roofs, uh, looking at chimneys. Chimneys can be a major issue a lot of times. Um, kind of just notating all that, documenting it, and kind of mentally marking areas, like, okay, this is connected here, kind of mapping the house too so we know where different systems are. Um, and then we go inside and, you know, use a, use a barrage of different tools. Um, we use, uh, you know, thermal cameras, um, moisture mapping with moisture meters, invasive and non-invasive, so that'll be pin and pinless, uh, just kind of depending on the scenario. And then, uh, my favorite tool personally is, like, it's kind of like an x-ray eyes behind the wall tool. It's called a borescope. Um, so it's literally something that just connects to your phone, or they have ones that just have a screen on them with a long camera. Um, and you're sticking that underneath sinks, like underneath the actual vanities, going into plumbing, behind plumbing, behind showers, looking for visual signs and symptoms. Um, a lot of what we do too for homes with carpet is pulling, uh, carpet off the tack strips in the corners to look for s- those signs there too. But you start to kind of, like, develop this understanding of the home as you use these different tools, and then from there we're d- we're developing kind of a testing plan in our mind, right? So if we see something suspicious, we're either gonna tape lift, swab, primarily swabbing, wet swab, um, or air sample, right? An air sample Is a tricky one, because you'll have a lot of people, like I said, pump jockeys that would just come in and they'll just air sample every 500 square feet or whatever they feel is necessary, right? Like, and I don't think that's a bad way... I don't think that's bad data, let's say, right? Like, it, it can be good data, but it has to be combined with other things. It's just isolated if it's just an air sample. It's not giving us anything else, right? So, sometimes we do air samples, it just depends on the scenario. I just did one yesterday in a sauna that someone was not feeling great, and I did an air sample in there and then a comparative so we can compare those two. Um, but usually when we're doing air samples, we're doing what's called wall cavity samples, right? So we're actually pumping air from behind a wall cavity through a tube into the cassette. That gives us a more finite and a more specific understanding of what's going on behind a wall that we suspect, right? And sometimes that requires poking a hole in a wall, uh, sometimes we can go through outlets and kinda isolate that area. Um, and usually, like, with showers, a lot of times, um, it's tricky, right? Especially, like, the drop-in, uh, the drop-in one-piece showers and tubs. We'll have to, uh, you know, we'll stick a bor- borescope down there, and sometimes you don't really see much, but you still have a, a feeling. Um, and, and I- I would say, like, nine times out of 10, we're usually air sampling behind a shower just because it's one of the primary areas that you get growth, right? Um, and then crawl spaces are a big one too. So scouring the crawl space at the end, uh, and usually doing a lot of swabs down there. HVAC system's a big one here in Tennessee. Uh, they love to put the furnaces in, in, uh, you know, areas that they shouldn't be building science-wise, which has just become kind of the norm. Uh, all, all furnaces, all HVAC systems should be in a con- conditioned space, but they're just not, unfortunately. Um, so you get a lot of condensation in those machines that are meant to combat condensation, uh, and reduce humidity. They get overstressed, and I mean, to begin with, a lot of them are oversized and undersized, so we have a lot of problems with dynamics there. Uh, but yeah, it's really kind of just going through all those different pieces. And sometimes we do use a mold dog, uh, just depending on the situation. If, uh, if, you know, there's areas where we think there might be hidden concerns, if there's a slab and they've slapped LVP over it, we think there might be moisture underneath there, it's really tricky to, to tell without tearing up some, uh, some of those planks, so that's where a mold dog can come in handy. Um, but e- ultimately, like, everything is just, is just a tool to get us the data, all this kind of, these data sets that we can start to pinpoint and connect data, just like with health results, um, to find solutions and really find the root cause. Um, and that's kinda what it takes. So we'll, we'll also do ERMIs. We do ERMIs from, you know, every house. We don't always send them in, it just kinda depends. Um- Always take a Swiffer, and with that Swiffer we can also run endotoxins, so what comes from gram-negative bacteria, uh, from black water and different concerns from animal feces, stuff like that, that fragments out and causes bacterial concerns in the home, or actinomycetes, right, gr-gram-positive bacteria either from human ce- human, uh, habitat or soil habitat, which is more of a concern when we have a crawl space or we have a house that's been lived in for a long amount of time, um, and there's a buildup of, of human, you know, fragments and, and dust in there. So it's... There's a lot of different testing, a lot of different modalities, a lot of different tools. Um, we kinda have, like, our process, uh, but it-- but I mean, over 100 houses in now and we're still, like, every house is just a different story, right? Like, it's, you take what you learn along the way, but you can't be certain of anything just going anywhere and, and not having an open mind and, and being open to the possibility that you're gonna learn something new or see something you've never seen, 'cause it happens, honestly, a lot and, and every place is a different story. So it's really just keeping that kinda open mind and then making the best, kind of, you know, having discernment and making the best judgment calls in the moment to get the best data we can to help the client.

Speaker 33:02

Yeah. Okay. Uh, another practical thing is let's talk about what to do and what not to do. For example, when you, um, see a water spot on a ceiling, don't just paint over it, right? That's a hidden clue that that was a source of water damage at some point. It's not just an eyesore from a style perspective. It actually is a window, a clue- Yep into the building biology. Something to do, I, like, what I was always taught, um, mold really needs to be cut out. A- and along the same lines, don't just paint over it. But, like, when we're dealing with wood or, I don't know, a stud, a part of a rafter or something, um, these things really do need to be, like, sealed and removed. It's not just a matter of putting a top layer on things or sheetrocking over it, right? Um, so do you have any tips, like if s- if we... Well, for example, there's a gal who a couple weeks ago couldn't come to our call because she was dealing with a sink leak, uh, or her k- kitchen sink started leaking, and I was like, "Oh, no," because in that moment, it's like you've got to handle this well.

Speaker 2 34:30

Yep.

Speaker 34:30

And if we, if we handle leaks as we find them, it's- it's not like we have to move. It's not that... It's, it's not that big of a deal, but it's ignoring them and letting them grow over time, right? We're- we want to, we want to eliminate in the same way that I'm helping my clients rework their microbiome so that opportunistic infections just don't wanna be there anymore because it's inhabitable to, in- inhospitable to them. We want our homes to be so healthy that mold does not wanna grow, right? So we should clean dust. We, um, you know, should address water leaks as they happen, that kind of thing. So, like, what are some ways to deal with water when we see it? Um, and how do we, h-how do, what are some things that we can do before calling in a company?

Speaker 2 35:24

Yeah, definitely. I think that's a super important point. You said something earlier about the, like, um, I wanted to touch on about the hormones too. That's very important. The HLA markers, right? Which is, is an important thing because, um, a lot of homes we go into, it's exactly what you said, right? Is, uh, sorry to, to tangent, but it was, it was important. I forgot to touch on it. Um, a lot of homes we go into, it is, it is the, the wife or, or the, the female in the relationship that is showing signs as well as the children, and then the husband is completely fine. So it's kind of funny because we fall into like a, a bit of like a couples therapist role sometimes, right? Where it's like we kinda come in as like one person's friend and the other person's enemy. Um, and usually by the end of that day, we spend enough time together that we're, that we're good with both of them. But it's, it's hard because when you're not feeling these things, it's hard to empathize fully with someone else, right? So I think that's where like the awareness and the understanding of HLA and these genes, MTHFR, these different things, right, that affect us differently based on our biology is very important. So I just wanna say that's, that's a very important point and something we see very often, and primarily it is, it is the female, um, in the relationship and the children. So, um, in terms of like home maintenance or seeing things, yeah, definitely don't ignore water spots. I mean, things, things could be something big or it can be, or it can be something, it could be nothing, right? And there's so many different, uh, aspects to that too, right? Like if you go into your, your bathroom, sometimes we'll have clients who are like, "I see water running down the walls in the bathroom." And it's like, okay, well that's not a water leak problem. That's a humidity problem, right? So we have different concerns. There's different ways to address it. But like for an issue like that, I wouldn't say like let's cut out the drywall, right? It's like practical steps. So yeah, observing those things, notating them, like leaks, never let them just go unchecked. Um, I say like one of the best things you can do is get leak detectors under every single plumbing point. Um, and then have a, like a mat, like a little silicone mat. You gotta be careful of those 'cause those themselves can cause high humidity and trap humidity underneath, so clean that regularly. Part of that maintenance, home maintenance schedule, which no one talks about the maintenance of the home aside from maybe PJ Harlow, who's awesome. But you know, it's like, uh, it's like a thing-- Like having a home is, is a lot of maintenance, right? It's a lot of, uh, caretaking and, and, um, that's just unfortunately the reality. But, um, so yeah, having those leak detectors is really good. Um, I would say you can have like a leak detector and then you put up these, uh, like inflatable, um, towels. They're like little tablet size. You can put those all around the leak detector because sometimes it'll be a slow drip that we don't realize for a long time, right? And it takes even a long time for the leak detector to realize that if it's not hitting it in the right spot or it hasn't leveled out the feet on there, that are what set the alarm off. So it's good to have a bit of contingencies in place so you know when that leak is right firstly occurring, right? Um, and then there's other concerns too, right? Like with all the ice storms and stuff we've had in Tennessee recently, like having your, you know, knowing where your cutoff is, your switch like that for emergency situations. But ultimately it's just kind of notating things, right? Scanning, not becoming like super hydr- hypervigilant and super, uh, hyper-focused on every little detail, but, but making sure you know, um, that, that if something is different, something is occurring in the home, that you notate it, right? Um- And a lot of that can save you from, from future headaches and, and hurt as well. And I mean, if it's a leak that's occurring and it's led to some damage, that's the opportune time to get insurance involved, right? A lot of times what we see for clients, which is very hard to see and, and it hurts to see and happened to us too, is like they have an ongoing mold issue that maybe there's not even signs or symptoms. Like in, in our house, there was no signs or symptoms aside from us being sick, right? There's no cracking, there's no peeling, there's no drywall rotting. There's nothing because it's all behind that sheathing, right? Um, and in that case, like you can try to report it to insurance. Typically, most people don't have a mold policy, so I say don't say the M word unless you have a mold policy. But with ongo- with, uh, with immediate water damage, that's when you're in the opportune time to get their help to cover those things, right? And to remove, to your point, to remove substrates that are porous, right? Um, and that's important too. You have a lot of remediation companies that are stuck in this old mindset of using biocides or treating or fogging or doing these things that we're just very against, and we're more so oriented toward, um, a medically important remediation, we call it MIR, that's based on the new science that shows that, you know, w- mold needs to be removed from the home. These reservoirs need to be removed. They can't just be fogged or treated, and mold really shouldn't be killed, right? Mold is just a living organism, and when we're trying to kill it, it's, it's gonna end up releasing hyphal fragments, what the cells are made of, even more allergenic to your point, and even more mycotoxins, right? And potentially cause it to grow even deeper or even more and proliferate it because it's just trying to survive. So when we're killing it, when we're threatening it, when we're treating it, all these things that the old kinda style of remediation talks about, we're just threatening mold. We're threatening a living organism whose only recourse to protect itself is to grow bigger, angrier, and to release more toxins, right? So that's where it gets really important to remove. Uh, just remove, remove, remove under containment, under proper procedure, um, under, you know, uh, proper negative pressure, all those different things. Um, and then to, uh, you know, on substrates that can't be removed, like framing, structural stuff like that, OSB even sometimes, mechanical sanding, media blasting under with HEPA, with a shrouded HEPA tool, um, and then wiping with a surfactant. Something as simple as Branch Basics. That's all you need for mold. Mold spores don't need biocides and all this crazy stuff, right? Like ultimately, those things can harm our health a lot more too, right? Those, those can degrade hormones a lot more as well, and that's probably something you know a lot more than I do, Tracy. But we see that in clients, right? With CIRS, they go through these remediation processes. They get their home treated with, you know, Benefect or, or something like that and, and they're have worse, way worse symptoms that they can't even tolerate those compounds. Um- Likely due to MCS, but that's caused ultimately by that inflammation, right? So, um, it's important to not make the sit- situation worse, not to add more potential volatile organic compounds to the, to the house, and to actually lessen the amount of these toxins that we're up against. And that really is, it's funny because it's so simple, right? It's like remove and clean with soap pretty much. But it's, it's become this complicated thing, which of course is likely influenced by a lot of money and a lot of, a lot of people making a lot of money off of these products, unfortunately. But the, we're trying to have this paradigm shift, and I think it's, it's going that way, which is great. Um, and ultimately it's, it's for the betterment of people's health and for having successful, uh, remediation. So you don't wanna see people going through remediation after remediation. It's just, it's heartbreaking, you know, when, when really all we need is a simple kind of procedure and protocol, and that's what we pro- we provide for clients, is the protocol for the remediator to follow. Um, and then have us come back and third party verify that their work was done properly. That's, that's an important step, right? Have us or someone else, it doesn't matter. But it's a, it's a teacher-student relationship, right? Like, you don't go into school and grade your own test. Like, you shouldn't be going into your job and, and getting graded, you know, grading your own work, right? It's, it's, it should be checked by us. And, and that all to say like, there's great remediators out there that are, that are doing great work, and we still fail them from time to time 'cause we see things that they don't, right? Or we're scouring after their work and we say, "Hey, we missed a little spot here. We'll take a tape sample or take a swab." And it turns out, yes, this is still viable growth even if it's dead spores. Dead spores are still not good spores, right? So that's like a red flag number one. If you talk to a remediator and they're like, "Yeah, we go in and we're gonna kill it. We're gonna treat it." I would say absolutely not, unless they're willing to completely change their mindset and follow a, you know, a removal procedure under proper protocol. It's, it's a, it's a major red flag and, and probably not gonna, not gonna be a long-term fix.

Speaker 43:18

This is probably a really great time to say never use bleach on mold Everybody thinks bleach, and it just discolors it so you don't see it with your human eye anymore, but it also makes it angry. And like he's describing, there is footage online that you can look up on YouTube when they actually try to spray some kind of, um, antimicrobial onto certain mold spores, and, like, they use certain cameras to show the proliferation of these things, and it would be better to leave it alone- Yeah than to, to try to kill it in this way, which is why the way he's describing it, like, things... L- I mean, if you're really sick from mold, don't clean your house from it. Do not be the one who does it. It's worth it to pay somebody else to do it, and these people who are really dealing with mold wear, are wearing hazmat suits, they have negative air pressure machines, and they're cutting things out, and they're bagging it, double bagging it. They're carrying it out. I mean, it's like space suit or, like, that movie Outbreak in the '90s or whatever. Hazmat. Uh, but yeah, I mean, it can be, for people who are really, really sick with mold, and not everybody is like that. Ev- you know, sometimes we just need to lower our burden enough for our immune system to tackle that, and that's the goal is, like, where is your, um, where's your resiliency level, and, uh, or conversely, where's your breaking point? And can we just get you a little bit better than your breaking point and make you stronger and stronger and stronger so that you can survive in this environment? But I do wanna leave room for questions here, but, but I like where you were going with this. How do we know if the r- if we should hire a remediator? I'm als- like, you said one important thing. If they're like, "Yeah, well, we just come in, we just take air samples, we compare them to the outdoor air. It's gonna cost you 10 grand," no. Like, no thank you, I don't need you to do that. Um, uh, you are gonna find what's outside inside my house, and I could already tell you that. Yeah. And then also- I'm thinking about another client of mine whose children were sick. Everybody else was fine, but the children were sick with a variety of gut issues, skin issues, and just for FYI for you ladies, if one or more persons are sick, just think it, it must be environmental. I don't know what yet, but it could be, so let's rule that one out. Um, so then it's a matter of she put air doctor, um, filters. Like, I have Austin Air in my house. I do have some air doctors. Um, and then the critical thing being where you sleep so that your body can r- heal overnight, like sleep next to one. Um, you know, all the... So a little bit more practical things like that, like air filters, and you mentioned the cleaning. The Branch Basics is excellent. You can use Branch Basics as one cleaner for every single thing in your home. Um, but anything else, and then the last couple minutes we'll open it up to see what questions other people have

Speaker 2 46:29

Yeah, I think those are all really good. Um, I would say definitely change out, like, your filters in your HVAC a- as much as possible. Clean that area. That's where we'd see a lot of aggravated a- aggregated dust in there, um, as well as in the systems, right? Like, the HVAC primarily becomes its own source, uh, uh, uh, reservoir source. It's either can start in the HVAC or it colonizes the HVAC, right? And that's kinda up to how much- And then

Speaker 46:54

recirculates, right? Yep. Now it's just, like, constantly showering your room and your house-

Speaker 2 46:59

Yep

Speaker 46:59

with all the mycotoxin spores.

Speaker 2 47:02

100%. Yeah, and that's I mean, every house we go into, we always check the HVAC, always swab the HVAC, no matter how it looks, 'cause you'll be surprised, you know, what you, what you find in there sometimes. Um, so a lot of that is maintenance, right? Like, getting it cleaned regularly out. People say every couple years. I say every year if you can, if you can budget that in, by someone who actually goes in, pulls out the coils, pulls out the blower, all that kinda stuff, and cleans it and then puts it back in, right? Like, we have one HVAC guy in Tennessee that we work with, hands down, every single time because he does those things, right? You'll have a lot of companies that just come in and whip it with a, with a brush, end up damaging a lot of the trunk line- or a lot of the branch lines and leaving you in a worse situation and pushing all that dust into your trunk line, right? So it's important in that regard to get people who know what they're doing, or you risk making it worse, right? So a lot of it is just maintenance, like you said earlier, the dust, the dust part of it, keeping the dust down. Uh, the solution to pollution is dilution, right? So, so having, um, those, those air purifiers. Austin Air is a really, really great air purifier. Um, it's super important, yeah, just kinda trying to keep that, that environment as clean as possible. Obviously, again, it's not gonna be a medical grade environment, nor should it be, um, but, but lessening those, those things. And then another good tip that we tell clients too is there's a, there's a lot of issue with, um, airflow in houses, right? Like, we build these really tight bubbles, and what happens now is that we have penetrations in the attic, we have penetrations in the crawl space, penetrations in the wall. When you turn on an exhaust fan in a bathroom that's exhausting out of your house, now you're pulling makeup air from all of those places, right? So that's where we see a lot of clients who are like, "My house, no matter what I do, gets super dusty." Then we ask them, "Do you open a window when you turn on the exhaust fan?" "No, I never do." Okay. So when you're doing that, your house is literally sucking air from itself, from inside those cavities, and bringing all that into your living space, right? So that, that can be a big concern, and that's where we start to recommend for big- like, more long-term solutions, ventilated dehumidifiers that go onto your HVAC and actually bring fresh air in, or ERVs, right? Gets a little bit more complicated, but, um, making up a source for your house to have constant either baseline pressure or positive, slightly positive versus negative pressure on the inside, right? You don't want negative pressure because that's pulling from all those spaces and ultimately causing More harm, more dust, more buildup, spores, all these different things. And not only that, it's creating pathways, right? So you're from a hot attic, let's say in the summer, to a cold surface on your, on your, uh, can light surface, on the shroud, or maybe on a vent. That starts to condense, and then what do you see around it? Starts to condense, and it has mold around it, right? Because it's just hot to cold, cold to wet. Easiest way to remember it, right? It's, it's the, the hot drink or the cold drink on a hot day effect, right? That's gonna condense, and that dew point on that metal surface is ultimately way lower than it is in the ambient temperature. So you gotta remember that those surfaces, when they're pulling that hot air from above or below, it's now condensing underneath or around those surfaces and leading to eventually mold growth or more water damage or condensation and, and more concerns, right? So, um, yeah. And check for leaks.

Speaker 50:08

Check for leaks. Yeah.

Speaker 2 50:10

Yep.

Speaker 50:11

Yeah. This is great. Okay. Guys, what questions do you have for Jonathan?

Speaker 3 50:24

We're doing a big renovation What are things we need to consider? Or is there a book or a document or a resource that That gives us a place to start.

Speaker 2 50:44

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, there are some good books. Um, so what, uh, Paula Baker-Laporte is a really good resource. She's one of our teachers in the new construction, uh, portion of Building Biology. She has a book called Prescriptions for a Healthy Home, I wanna say it is. Um, that's with her and Jon Banta, who is another major, uh, VIP, MBP leader in the, in the mold space and healthy home space. That has a lot of good, uh, information just broken out on like material-wise, like what you can use. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's, that's really good. Uh, there's a really good Facebook group, uh, started by a colleague of mine, uh, Jen Jobart. It's, uh, Beyond Building Defects, I wanna say. Um, there's, there's a ton of information in there that's really good. Uh, those are probably two good places to start. Um, and then yeah, there's, there's a ton of people who can help. You know, we do, we do virtual consulting for renovations or new construction even. Um, but ultimately, right, we're looking for getting as, as close to the natural kind of, uh, nature is the gold standard, uh, mindset, right? Um, so there's a lot of different things you can use from, you know, clay-based paints, mineral-based paints that are actually hygroscopic, so you can kind of, uh, mitigate the humidity in your home. And then you essentially just wanna think of it like you're trying to keep this environment from either being too humid or too, too, um, open or too low humidity, right? So there's a lot of balance that, that, uh, needs to take place and, and like a lot of, a lot of what we see, right, is, is people putting in just whatever the contractor decides, and then they come into their home and they have a lot of MCS too, right, 'cause there's a ton of formaldehyde, there's a ton of VOCs. Um, none of that's considered, but luckily now in this day and age, even places like the big box stores, we have stuff like ROCKWOOL or Powerwool, um, all great things that are super low formaldehyde and honestly just way better in the long run, uh, for our, all of our health and our insulation in our home. So, um, yeah, there's a lot out there and it kinda depends on your building envelope, it depends on the cladding, it depends on your environment overall and the style of the build. But I would say those are a few good, few good resources to start with, definitely.

Speaker 3 52:54

Wonderful. Thank you.

Speaker 2 52:55

Yeah, of course. Congrats on the renovation. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 52:57

Thanks.

Speaker 4 53:01

Um, I have a question. You may have said this. I had to run, uh, walk away for a s- a few minutes. Um, when you talk about air, uh, HVAC, what about the actual duct work and your, where your vents are, like under there? Do you recommend getting those cleaned?

Speaker 2 53:22

Yep. Yep, 100%. So I would say clean the whole system, right? Um, you wanna clean like just, not just the, the furnace, um, not just if it's a package unit, the whole package, but all the lines, right, should be clean, and that's where it gets tricky, right? Most of our, most of our HVAC lines are flex. Um, unfortunately, uh, hard duct is a lot easier to clean just because it's a, a, a surface that they can actually wipe, right? Um, with, with flex duct you have to be careful because you can create those tears in there if not done properly. So ideally, something truck mounted is better 'cause you have a better chance of pulling, pushing and pulling things out rather than it- them just coming in with whipping brushes and tearing up the duct work or not really getting anything. We always say it's like cleaning a Slinky, right? It's like there's so many different coils in there, different areas for- Yeah for dust to be stored. But yeah- Okay you wanna have the whole thing, especially the vents too, c- uh, cleaned. And a lot of times, like if you pull up a vent and it's, it's super not great looking, like we just say replace it, right? They're like maybe 10, 10, 20 bucks, um, replace some of those, some of those. And like when you're doing that too, when you're pulling up those, those, um, the vent covers and whatnot, it's also important to look around there, right? Like you can see the subfloor. Typically, you can see kind of the layers of flooring. If you see gaps and stuff around there, I would have someone seal them, right? I'd have a contractor seal them or even just buy a can of, uh, something like Handy Foam. We like Handy Foam. It's like a one ingredient spray foam, so not like a toxic spray foam. Um, that's a really good product and that'll seal all those cracks and crevices and ultimately allow for better efficiency and allow for a lot less, uh, contamination from those spaces above and below, and just better overall, uh, less contamination of your system too, right, of the HVAC. But, um, yeah, it's important when you, when you do those things to clean all those. And then there's things you can do. You can install like HEPA filters on your actual system, uh, that a, that a certified HVAC person can do. That'll lead to cleaner air throughout the entire space that that HVAC is affecting, right? Even the whole home. So, um, there's a lot that can be done to HVACs and I'm not a... A lot of people in the building biology space will be like anti-ducted systems, anti-this, anti-that, and I think like a lot of these systems and a lot of these mechanicals that we have now are not the problem, right? It's how we use them and how we route them and, and the lack of, um, science and, and calculations around them, right? Like we're not sizing them properly, we're not routing them properly, and so thus the machine is not able to function how it's designed to function, right? Like HVAC is, it is for heating and cooling, but another primary function of HVAC that we don't think about is humidity, right? It's, it's, uh, it's hygroscopicity, right? It's supposed to regulate humidity and a lot of times what we see in clients' homes is it's not able to because it's cycling too quick or it's cycling too slow, and that doesn't allow for it to pull out humidity and to balance that humidity in the home. So then we have eventually a mold concern. But yeah, it's short, short answer, yeah, I would clean all those areas.

Speaker 4 56:11

Okay. One more question. Is it fair to assume keeping your house cool, the cooler the better, or is that not really, um, having a big impact on, on mold?

Speaker 2 56:24

It depends, right? Um, i- if your home is, is... has a lot of those pathways, a lot of lack of insulation and a lot of pathways from the attic, from the crawl space, from the exterior walls that haven't been, um, foamed shut or, or closed properly, then what you risk is potentially, um, thermal bridging, we call it, right? So thermal, the outside air coming into the inside air, hot meeting cold, and it turning to condensation, right? Um, so it's kinda dependent on the home, and you'll be able to tell, right? Like, you'll s- you'll see signs. You'll see sweating on windows inside. You'll see sweating on ducts, stuff like that. I mean, I keep my house pretty cold. I sleep in the cold. I, I like, I like the cold, you know. It's, it's better for our bodies to rest in that, in that temperature typically. Tracy can definitely talk on more on that, more expertise than I have on that. But, um, yeah, I think it's not, it's... I've had clients who, who have had mold issues in their homes, for their builders just to tell them that it's your fault for keeping the air so low, and that's just absolute nonsense. It's not, it's not the, it's not the coolness of the home. It's a, it's a dysfunction in the building, right? Um, so it's really largely dependent on how the house is built, and if you're seeing those signs and symptoms, um, then I would say there's, there's more so like an air, uh, penetration concern, thermal bridging issue, uh, more so than, than a cool issue, right? Or, or a heat, hot/cold issue. So kinda just depends. Thank you

Speaker 4 57:44

very much. Yeah. Thanks.

Speaker 2 57:44

Yeah. You're, you're so welcome I know we didn't even get into EMFs on this one, Tracy, so we might have to do that on a, on a different one.

Speaker 58:04

I know, for sure. That, uh, yeah. When I was sick, I went down the EMF rabbit hole and put Stetzer meters in every single, um, uh, outlet in our house, you know, and I was... I got a EMF meter. I was obsessed with reducing dirty electricity in my house, and- Yep painted a bedroom with EMF shielding paint, and I just thought, "What do these people do who live in New York City or, like, LA?" And they... And you, you open your phone's Bluetooth app, and you get 30,000 connections in one second, you know? I mean, I probably have 10 or 12 right here, and I, my neighbors aren't that close. Uh, but if you live in a urban area, oh my gosh. Okay, I, yeah, I'm adding a couple things to the chat. Um, open these on your end in Amazon so you guys can, uh, um, look at these. Um, I didn't know about this book, Prescription for a Healthy House. It looks so good, and when I was in the middle of my stuff, I, um, hired John Banta. Mm. So I consulted with him. He's- He's the best you're right. He's, like, the GOAT. Um, all right. Sure is. Uh, but, but Christian, if you're still on the call, I... And, and really for everybody, what does this cost here? Um, 10.99. For 10.99 on Amazon, you can get this... Let me just share my screen, 'cause it's really that important. Humidity monitor, and, um, highly recommend just getting a couple of these, putting them throughout your house depending on how big your house is. Uh, we had one wherever I, wherever I suspected that we had moisture that was uncontrolled. And actually, um, what's his name? Um, okay. He, he wrote, um, Toxic. Um, uh, the doctor who helps so many people with mold. What is his name? Um, do you know who I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 1:00:01

Mm.

Speaker 1:00:01

He's a Lyme and mold doctor Okay, it's gonna come to me. Anyway, um, he was the guy who was like, "You need to put these humidity monitors everywhere you suspect mold, and any time it gets over a certain percentage," and I honestly can't remember what that percentage is, but I can look it up and, and get back to you guys. It was so helpful in terms of my husband learning how to regulate the temperature and humidity level in our house via our HVAC system, and I would watch this thing and I would go like, "Oh, okay, we're, we're getting..." Throughout the year, I started to learn the ecosystem of my house, and I really began to answer that question that Christian just asked in term of it was no longer about temperature, it was about humidity levels.

Speaker 2 1:00:47

Yep.

Speaker 1:00:47

And it was a diagnostic tool for me at $11. Uh, do I need to regulate humidity in my crawl space? Do I need to have a dehumidifier in my bathrooms? This and that. And it turned out no, like, all of that was fine, but I knew that b- only because I had a couple monitors collecting this data, and it looks like a thermometer, and across the room I could go, "Oh, okay, yeah, we're at 49%, we're fine," or whatever, whatever the percentage was. So this is a super useful tool also, um, when you're considering humidity levels in your house.

Speaker 4 1:01:24

Tracy, or, um, I forgot your name, but-

Speaker 1:01:27

Jonathan

Speaker 4 1:01:28

Jonathan, sometimes I think of opening the windows as like gold standard of letting, letting the air just, you know, fresh air rush through my house and dilute the dust. Like, that's probably a super juvenile way to think of it, but I imagine on a humid day that's a kind of a bad idea. Or, or is it always a bad idea? Like, how do you think about that? Like, let's freshen up the house, open all the windows, let the a spring day rush through. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1:01:58

Who's gonna go first? I personally love it. I'm curious to see what Jonathan's gonna say, but I think, um, it reminds me of, um, this doctor's name, I cannot remember his name, I'm gonna have to look him up. He, he told me, he was like, "You need to live like the Germans." And I was like, "How, what is that? Drink a lot of beer?" And he was like, "Every afternoon, they open their windows for a refresh. It's like a national rule." And I thought, that's such a beautiful practice to get involved in. And he was like, "I don't care what the temperature is outside." And it's exactly what Jonathan, Jonathan said, the solution to pollution is dilution. And think about it like this, Christian, this is how I got my mind wrapped around it as well. People who are very, very sick with mold, super sensitive to chemicals, in fact, like, cannot live in a new construction, old construction, anything, what do they do? They go to the woods, and they set up tents, and there's these compounds in certain places. People are so desperate to just survive, they end up living in outdoor environments, and they heal And they get away from city pollution, light pollution, EMF pollution, everything. And, uh, can it just possibly be as simple as what God has given us in nature? Sunshine, fresh air, salty ionic water at the oceans. Yeah. Could these simply be our freest, most valuable healing tools out there? Grounding barefoot on clean soil, hugging trees, you know. Like, I just refuse to think- What's the fair compound? these are things that make us sick.

Speaker 4 1:03:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1:03:42

But Jonathan, what do you say?

Speaker 2 1:03:44

No, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think, uh, opening the windows in, in any temperature, any humidity, freezing cold or super humid, it's good, right? We wanna get cross ventilation always. Um, you wanna... Especially in the wintertime, right? A lot of what we see in homes is really high CO2 levels. Everyone inside, barometric pressure is higher on the building, building's getting squeezed, it's really tight, and there you have higher CO2, right? Every time we exhale, CO2 is rising. So a lot of times, like, going into homes in the winter especially, we're, we're measuring levels of like 1,400 CO2, and it should be 300 to 400. And you're sleeping in these environments, you're getting a lot of brain fog, you're getting a lot of confusion, dizziness, all these different things, right, that's like hard to pinpoint at that point what it's from. But, um, yeah, the fresh air, like, and 100%, Tracy, I'm with you. It's, it's kinda funny, right? Like, 'cause we see all these like devices and stuff, and a lot of them are great. Like, I think red light is great and whatnot, but God's, God's given tools are free outside, right? And the earthing and the light, the full spectrum, getting away from EMF, like all these things you can use to heal your body outside, um, are really important. Of course, there's caveats to it, like away from pesticides and all that kinda stuff, power lines. But, uh, yeah, I think, I think interaction... A building should be able to interact with nature consistently and, and constantly, right? Like it's not to say like you should leave your windows open during a rainstorm, obviously. Moisture intrusion concern there. But, um, but yeah, I would say don't be scared to get some cross ventilation, and especially if you're turning on exhaust fans, right? When you turn those exhaust fans on when you're cooking, when you're in the shower, stuff like that, you wanna make sure that you get that makeup air somewhere. And that's like the, the window opening thing is, is a great tool. Um, a lot of what people, you know, what, what we recommend to clients for their HVAC will be an energy, uh, recovery, recovery ventilator, ERV. Um, so that'll actually, it has a cross pathway that actually brings in fresh air and exhales stale air, right? So that can balance the environment in your home, but it comes with a lot of caveats and, and things that, that must be included as well, like a dehumidifier, right? 'Cause then you're bringing in a lot of humidity. So, um, ultimately, yeah, the, the good free fix is, is what you said, Christian, opening, opening those windows and, and I fully support that every day

Speaker 1:06:00

Tennessee is also notorious for all these ventless fireplaces. I'm like, "What the heck is this about?" It's terrible. Oh,

Speaker 2 1:06:07

yeah.

Speaker 1:06:07

Um, yeah. So opening windows, getting fresh air I think is, is a great thing Who else has a question for Jonathan? Real, um, easy things if you're questioning mold in your house, like go to a water source. Um, think about where's your hot water heater. Really examine underneath that, behind that. Like, s- what I have seen is like the pans get... There's a leak, and the pans get full, and they overflow. Or, um, there can be actually like a shooting leak, and there's, uh, you know, sheet rock now that is wet around a water heater. Look at your water heater regularly. Look underneath sinks. Look for constant, steady drips. Look deep inside drains, you know? And not every speck of black is, is terrible. Um, but we're looking for things out of the ordinary. And like Jonathan started with, we're More than anything, it's, it's a, it's an awareness. Like we're looking for patterns. Is this worse than it was before? Um, uh, w- what's the, the bigger picture here? Um, and then when, when there's just simply stuff that you cannot, you can no longer pinpoint... I remember there was a tip on a Facebook group I, uh, used to scour a long time ago, was like sometimes you open your cabinet doors around your sink and you d- don't see anything. Well, first off, like who cleans underneath their sinks? But we should do that regularly. We should literally pull everything out. And what do you and I keep underneath our sinks? I don't know, microfiber towels, or am I the only one? So if those are damp, like the, that whole space is damp. You've got your cleaning materials usually under sink, so get that out, clean underneath there. Do a visual inspection, and sometimes you can't see. And one of the tips was go back at night with a flashlight, and if you were to open the cabinet door and you wanna look at it like this, and you hold the flashlight on its edge, and a lot of times you'll see like white, fuzzy, like an, an luminescent look, and you won't see that in the daytime or with the lights on. So like you can use a flashlight to see is there any discoloration on this wood. Um, anyway, so you're looking at sinks, you're looking at water heaters, you're looking at drips, um, you know, obvious HVAC things. And then- Like do the maintenance in your home. Call somebody in like Jonathan. Or mold, I mean, oh my gosh, you're lucky if you get out with under $50,000 trying to get your health back. Most people spend well over $100,000 by the time they have remediated, they've turned over all the stones, they've thrown away clothes, got new furniture. People who are very sick get rid of old photo books, and family memorabilia can be very, very heartbreaking, so stay on top of maintenance so that it doesn't get to that point. Um, yeah. What else? Any other questions or, or last thoughts for Jonathan?

Speaker 2 1:09:33

No, I think that's all great, and it, it is, it is, can be immensely stressful, and I think, like, with that note, like, the really important thing too, other than like the physical, um, health effects, right, is the nervous system. That's, that's what we see a lot, right? I know, like, personally, I was not able to heal until I really got my brain retrained and did some of that to heal my nervous system, right? Because it becomes a vicious cycle where it's like, "Mold is trying to kill me. All these things are trying to kill me," and your body's in fight or flight the whole time. So, I think regulating that's really important. Um, we were just at a house earlier today, someone had a massive, massive mold issue. Um, they had us back to try and test some of their contents to see if, you know, they're sa- salvageable. And I think that's, that's important too, right? Because, like, a lot of these groups can be great, but a lot of them are also... You have to remember a lot of people are going through tough times and, and very severely dysregulated, as I once was, and most of my, our clients are at the time too, right? And so it's like, you wanna kill what's killing you, you know? So, you wanna burn the house down. Like, we, we have jokes with clients all the time. It's like, "Yeah, I could burn it down for you while you guys are, while you guys are out somewhere, and you can file an insurance claim." Just joking, but, you know, like, I felt like that too, right? Like, I literally had a kitchen fire, and I put it out, and I was like, "Man, I should've let this house burn down," you know? But it's like- Yeah. Like, we can't, we can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater situation, right? So-

Speaker 3 1:10:50

Yeah

Speaker 2 1:10:51

a lot of porous items and, like, you'll get people who are like, "You have to throw out everything. Everything has to go." And it's like we're a lot more, a lot more like, um, less extreme, right? Where it's like, "Hold on a second. Like, let's do the protocol. Let's clean these things in an envi- like, out- outdoor environment. Clean it, and then if you're still unsure about it, like, test it, sample it. We can do vacuum samples. We can do tape lifts. And if you're still unsure with it, wrap it up and put it in storage, and then test yourself with it later," right? Put clean items, blow dry off, uh, hair, hair, hair blower off books and items like that, heirloom items, wipe them down with Branch Basics protocol, HE- HEPA vacuum, wipe it down with Branch Basics, then dry wipe, store it in a, in a box, in a tote, seal it off, put it away, and then test yourself later once your mind is healed and once your body is healed, right? Like, it's, it's not everything. It doesn't have to be throw everything out in your house. It's all doom and gloom. Like, there's just so much of that, and I think, like, it's just hard, right? Like, it's all-- A lot of these groups are, are sensationalized, and there's a lot of people out there too selling the fear narrative, and it's, it's, it hurts to see 'cause it's like, it's really the last thing we need, right? We need more hope and more and more positivity and more, like, it's gonna be okay. Like, yes, it seems terrible. Yes, it's a, an immense amount of stress, but, like, there is hope and, and the answer and solution not every single time is to burn everything down, right? Like, that's, that's just not, not the answer all the time. So, um, there's gray. There's gray space. It's not just all black and white is, is, uh, kind of the point there, so.

Speaker 1:12:23

Ja. Ja, vad bra Okay, guys. Any last minutes for him? How far out do you book, Jonathan? And do you only see local or do you con- do you, like, uh, consult for out of state?

Speaker 2 1:12:47

Yeah. Yeah, we travel. Um, we were just in Hawaii doing assessments and then Kentucky- Whoa and California. Yeah, so we go all over. Um, kinda wherever, wherever we're needed, wherever the Lord needs us. Um, there's just a lot, a lot of need and a lot of people who are getting poor assessments and not getting the right answers, and then three assessments later unfortunately coming to us and we're trying to put a stop to that, but it's an uphill battle. So, um, yeah, we do consultation, uh, virtual, uh, in person, new build, all that kinda stuff. For, for Tennessee, uh, I think we're a few weeks out booking right now. Um, but, but yeah, we're happy to, happy to get people in and, and fit people in, and then we're getting some more people on the team right now too to try and be able to service more and, and, uh, and just really kinda meet that demand as well. 'Cause it's, every day I, I, I tell people it's just, it's heartbreaking. Like I, I know the amount of people who need help, but it, every time you see it more and more every day it's like astonishing the amount. You know? It's almost every single house, so whether it's- Mm we're aware of it or not, right? So, um, yeah. Yeah, so reach out if you guys need help or you just have an- you know, questions that you need answered or anything like that, we'd be happy to, happy to chat with y'all.

Speaker 1:13:55

Okay, and this website, your jfhealthyhomes.com, is that how people reach you?

Speaker 2 1:14:00

Yep, 100%. Yeah, we have an admin who can, who can, uh, direct questions and, uh, and yeah. Yeah, we'll be happy to, happy to help you guys and get you on the schedule if needed and, uh, see how we can help you guys live better indoors.

Speaker 1:14:14

I love it. Thank you so much for coming. This is very informative.

Speaker 2 1:14:19

I'm glad. Thank you for having me. It was, it was a good time, and I, I really appreciate it. Any chance to spread awareness- Yeah is awesome, so thank you.

Speaker 1:14:27

Well, let's bring you back at some point and talk all about EMFs.

Speaker 2 1:14:31

Yeah. You got... Book, let's book, like, six hours maybe.

Speaker 1:14:35

And don't you know, like- I have so many... I'm from Southern California as well. Got my- Yeah initial mold exposure in Northern California, in those lovely redwoods. Mm-hmm. It's the most beautiful place on earth, but it nev- It's, like, so damp, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 1:14:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:50

And, uh, we used to grow, like, green fuzz in the Bir- the cork bed of Birkenstocks just in a 24-hour period by being in our closet. It's just so moist, it's crazy. But, um, so many of my friends now in Southern California are lacing their house with solar panels because PG&E is giving them, like, 25 grand back in rebates. Yeah. And they'll never have to pay another electric bill. And I'm like, "Well, you just basically traded your, you know, health for no electric bill." Yeah. What are we doing?

Speaker 2 1:15:28

Health for a hospital bill.

Speaker 1:15:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:15:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1:15:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:15:33

Yeah. It's

Speaker 1:15:33

brutal. So- It, it- It, it's- it's really brutal it's, I don't see it very much here in Tennessee, but I... Oh, a lot of my friends, hook, line, and sinker, with energy issues out in California. And, um, I don't know, we could even talk about, uh, what, you know, um, electric cars, you know, just driving around in, in these bubbles now, living in these smart homes. And you can be in another state and control everything via your, your apps on your- Yeah phone. And it's like we... What are we doing? What are we doing here? And some of this we can mitigate, you know, and so let's get outside and, and, uh, connect, connect with nature. But anyway, that's another conversation for another time. We will definitely have you back. And, um, yeah, so I'll put the recording up, guys. I'll put it both in The Hormone Solution and in, um, the Collective for both groups to take advantage of this. And please reach out to Jonathan if you have any questions, you wanna consult with him on any of these issues, and he can go super deep, as deep as you need, on all of these things. But, um, all right, guys, I think we'll wrap this up and say, um, thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 1:16:48

Thank you so much, y'all. I appreciate you guys.

Speaker 1:16:51

Thank you.

Speaker 4 1:16:52

Thank you.

Speaker 5 1:16:58

That's it for today's episode of The Balanced Hormone Solution podcast. If this resonated, don't just listen, do something about it. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. And if you know another woman who's tired of feeling like a stranger in her own body, send her this way. For more support, check out the show notes. I've got resources to help you get started. Just remember, your body isn't broken. You just need the right tools. See you next time