SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, hey, how are ya? Hey, how are ya? It's been a while, hey. Oh man, we're like three weeks, four weeks. That's been busy. People were starting to like you know, send like put up flyers wondering if the podcast was gonna return.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Have you seen these two guys? Where are they? No, it was good. It was uh we had youth camp, and then after that we had March break, and we've got a bunch of stuff. And I think, and I don't know if it's good or not, but I think as we've gotten a little bit older, we've both kind of been like, well, it is what it is. You have so much time and and it is, but we love doing this, and so hey, we figured we'd jump back in today and just go all in right away.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Right back in.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

So I I don't know how today's gonna go, to be honest, guys. I don't know if I'm normally nervous, but I'm kind of nervous.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

He's normally like that though. He doesn't know how it's gonna go. He's like, he I think he literally walks into the room and he's like, All right, let's see what happens if I say this to him. Like, we'll see what we can start.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Okay, well, so here's the thought that we had. So we were chatting about what we should talk about today. Uh, and what keeps running through my mind is how does Easter fit into the world that we live in currently? So we're gonna spend the next couple of weeks and we really focus on a God who showed up in the flesh and took our sin on him, went to the cross, surrendered, you know, on our behalf, really, paid the price, died, and rose again. And that's the God we serve. How does that fit into what's happening in Iran or Palestine? How does that fit into what's happening in our world? And and I I struggle sometimes to know how to feel and how to how to interrelate those things, or how how am I supposed to respond being a Christian? Like, what does that look like? Um, because it feels like at least I don't know what you're thinking, but I know you don't know what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

There's so many thoughts going through my life.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I just I feel like the loudest voices are usually in the ditches. And so what I mean by that is the loudest voices are typically super anti-pacifist to anything. Like, don't do anything, don't do anything, God will do it all. Or on the flip side, like super extreme. Um, you know, fight uh, you know, Christian nationalism probably would be the the far extreme of that, where you know, fighting for your country matters more than pretty much anything because God is blessing our country. And then somewhere in between, there's a bunch of the regulars like us who just kind of go, okay, how do I how do how does my Christian faith intersect with a crazy world out there? And so I'm gonna open with that and see where you take it, because you get pretty passionate about some of the stuff sometimes. So I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

You're like, let's wind them up. I I don't know if I have a good response. I've some of the information that I've been reading and some of the people I've been following and some of the conversations that have been happening. I'm I I think with more clarity than probably ever, the the void that is out there um in people's lives that can only be filled by um I think a spiritual point of connection is just so apparent and clear. And I I mean flesh that out for me a little bit, because pretend I'm not a Christian and explain to me what you mean by that. I mean, we we've I think from the Christian context, we created a like a worldview, a culture that was so good in so many ways that uh kind of I don't know if it's a a laissez faire, like a whatever kind of attitude developed in both people of faith and people who just didn't see the point of faith because it was so good. And that has kind of eroded into a do whatever you want to do kind of mentality, and it will be okay. And I think for a certain length of time and for a certain period of time, it will be because you're living in an environment where you're backstopped by so much structural good, right? In a sense. And I know people would argue, but I mean, we we do live in a place where there's there's laws, there's like a backstop financially for people, there's um, there's a social safety net, which is like in many ways unbelievably and unaffordable. But like we we live like really well. So you can kind of do whatever you want and say that you're good.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Without there really being a lot of consequence. But I think we're starting to get to the edges of that, where no, there's clearly some consequences coming from some of the, you know, we can do whatever we want kind of perspective. We don't have to make great decisions as a country. We don't have to, you know, when you start looking into how we've run our economy for decades and decades, I can see why Albertans are a little bit frustrated with, you know, Quebecers. And I can see why, you know, there's different people groups that are like, you know, this doesn't work for us. I I can see why there's some of that because the the evidence is really in in so many areas. I can see why there's different frustrations. I can, you know, I I in so many ways. I look at like the reason why the majority of you know teachers in Canada vote liberal is because, you know, the liberals for decades have endlessly just, you know, wrote checks to whatever the teachers' unions wanted. And that in turn, they were smart. That in turn became the voice that was in the schools teaching the kids. So that in turn created a whole generation that saw no, you know, no political diversity. It was mainly all, you know, you're NDP or you're liberal because we stand for this, this, and this. And the only reason why they really got their vote was because they got the check. And I mean, that's a wise thing. But now the consequence is that we we live in a society that can't afford to pay its bills, and we, you know, we we don't want to create, we don't want to develop, we don't want to be entrepreneurial, we don't want to be like imaginative, we don't and I think in so many areas this is true. And I think that just creates a space where people are like, well, you know, well, what's the answer when you have young people that can barely afford groceries, you know, or us where it's starting to like you look at oil prices and like how things swing, and your space and margin that you've created in your budget no longer exists, and you know starts challenging you to like, well, how are you gonna do this? And like all of a sudden, you know, the space that normally you would look to God for answers is there, and you're like, I I need I need an answer bigger than what I can create myself. I need I need a solution to this problem that uh uh my solutions haven't worked. And I think that ends up with people, you know, considering and saying, now wait, wait, now why are we where we're at? Like we're not at where we're at right now because people have had a vibrant walk and connection to God. You know, that's not you know the way society has been for the last, you know, I don't know, hundred years. I d I don't know. I don't know what the historical timeline of that would be, but I I think there's been such a falling away. I think it's evident. It's evident in our families, it's evident in our schools, it's evident in our hospitals, it's evident in what we allow people. Like when you think that people can have seasonal depression and call up a doctor and end their life, like what are we doing? Like it it doesn't even make sense. Right. But it's like, ah, everybody has the right to choose. But like, where's our moral backbone that says, no, that's not that's not a good choice. What are we even talking about? Like it it just doesn't make sense. Um but we we just keep allowing because they have the right to choose. Well, yes and no.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Like so where is it where does it because you you're going a different direction than my brain was going, which is nice, because now I can blame this conversation on you. It's perfect. Super fantastic. How how does the gospel fit into that? Because I think a lot of people would, and as much as we'll disagree on some things, right? There's people that would blame other people or whatever, but all of us would agree in the sense that us as a culture are in a bit of trouble. North America as a whole, and and I don't know about the whole world. I mean, it I'm not that smart, but I know in our region, there's there's definitely concern. There's concern about where we are as families, there's concern about where we are as a country.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Um I just don't think we can continuously backstop downstream, where we're trying to fix all the brokenness like downstream and not have anything kind of upstream. And so do you you think faith lives more upstream, or do you think that we've just I think I think faith is the answer to the void that is clearly present in most people's lives. I think faith teaches like when we when we look at some of the basic tenets of what we say our faith is. Oh my legs are loving God, loving your neighbor. Well, what does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Well, that's what I was gonna say. Okay, so like let's pause here for a sec and go, okay, so let's bring Easter into this. So God looked at the world and would have seen all of the evil and significantly more than we could. Because we got social media and we got international news. So I mean we see some things, but we get a pretty small perspective still. God sees the entire thing, and his choice is to send Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

I think our God is different than any other God. Our God is sacrificial, our God is willing to lay down his life um so that we can have we can have reconciliation, we can have redemption, we can have a new life. He like the end the expectation of our God when he showed up in in the flesh was that he was gonna rule and he was gonna like sit on the throne and he was gonna be like the king that everybody wanted. And instead, he was the king who was willing to lay down his life so that we can actually have healing and connection to God in the way that we needed. And I that's our God wasn't about, you know, this powerful, you know, I'm going to dominate and rule. And I think you see that in a lot of other faiths where, you know, the the backdrop of of of their faith is I will have power. Where God isn't like that. No, there's a surrender to. And I think that is a complete opposite. Because we we want to rise up and we want to like take over, and we and God teaches us, no, you need to become a servant to each other. You need to become someone who's willing to care for each other, not to rule over each other. And it's a it's a completely switch that's different. It's not it's not just about what I can get for me, it's about how I can love my neighbor. And that's a whole different way of thinking. It's not about, you know, we wanted God to come in and like have the kingdom and rule, like, you know, give us this kingdom. God wants us to be part of his kingdom, which is way different. It's upside down in what people would normally see. And I think when he comes in, I I think it I think it's a flip. I think it's I think it's I think it's a change. I think it's I heard I heard somebody once say following um following World War II, um, the the Japanese people took on the gods of America. And what they did not take on was Christianity. Which at the time you would say that was the Americans' God. No, they took on automotive, they took on baseball, they took on the gods of America.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

And and and I think that that that is so fundamentally true, that what they did not see was was sacrifice. What they saw was power through manufacturing, they saw entertainment through sport, like that's just a little bit wide-ranging and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Do you think, okay, so Jesus shows up and so if he were to show up today and he were to spend his entire life in those few kilometers that he lived and died and left, would all of us not be annoyed that he only spent his time in one little place? And part of what I've been thinking as you're talking here is like God showed up, and it's not like I know he was fulfilling the prophecies of the Old Testament, there's all that. There was a world desperately in need of God, and he showed up in one place, in one location, and lived faithfully there and changed the entire world. And I just wonder as you were talking about that, I'm like, I I I think there's something profound in living your life faithfully just in the one place you are. Because my struggle is, you know, that there's a world that's really suffering. I struggle when I watch this because there's countries like Canada who kind of take the approach that we just don't do anything so we look good. Like we don't really stand for anything. You have our elbows up. Well, yeah, we have elbows up, right? Like you look at some of these countries like Iran, that's crazy. Like some of the stuff, I'm not saying that what Trump did is right or wrong. I'm not really sure. But they just killed a bunch of kids just for the sake that they spoke out against the government. Like this is the country that that I hate that, but I don't know what to do about it. And so then I think about God showing up, and well, he didn't show up in all these other countries. He didn't go to all the tribes that were suffering. He didn't go to like he just stayed there. Like he didn't even work in Rome. Like he wasn't up there in Rome trying to change Caesar and trying to change the governments and trying to, you know, like that there was none of that. He just showed up, and and I wonder if part of the the message of Easter is that we need to trust God with the world and trust that living our one life in our one location faithfully is enough. Because I don't think most people feel like it is. So for me, loving Joe's and loving my kids and raising them well and living out my faith here doesn't seem like I'm doing anything. And yet you look at Jesus and then you look at the disciples, yeah, they began to spread. And then through persecution, it began to spread somewhat quick. But they just showed up and they were faithful. And I sometimes wonder if maybe the message of Easter in so many ways is just model what you're supposed to to your spouse and your kids and the few people that God called you to interact with. And then you go, okay, but if everybody did that, it would change the world in a year.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, I I think there's validity to that. I think in the increasingly like globalization of just our I think individualism has become globalized in a sense where you look at people as you see influencers and you're like, oh, they have such a big impact.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

But do they?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Like is there actually anything that's changing, or are they just having an impact on people's minds instead of it being like, no, I'm actionably going to like now go take care of my neighbor in a practical way. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna help them with their yard work, I'm gonna help take out their garbage, I'm gonna bring them a meal. I'm gonna make sure that, you know, if they were sick that they're being taken care of. I'm gonna and I think for us, we look at people having such influence or we think they do, not realizing that change can happen in your neighborhood, in your town, like in your school, at your workplace.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Because I don't like me, me and you debate this sometimes. And like, do we try to promote ourselves and be bigger? Do we do we try like even with any of these podcasts and stuff, like we don't try very hard to ever get anyone to watch it because we take the approach that this is for our church? Like, we're having these conversations because I want you guys to know us and we want to be able to talk about some of these things, talking about politics and Sunday. I'm not a fan of it. I don't think it's the right place, but I think there's a place to kind of go like, how do how do you guys navigate that stuff? And so I I know sometimes you go, Well, should we be doing that more? But I just keep looking back to Jesus going, but he didn't. Like, and I know they didn't have social media, and I know there was all, but he never tried to get famous. Like early on, and some of it I don't even understand. Early on, he was like, Hey, and don't tell anyone. Yeah, like it was wild to me. Stop. Like, my mission is not to make my life big, my mission is just to be faithful to what God is calling me, and then when I leave, the Holy Spirit's gonna come, and then you guys are gonna see this is crazy. But I think for us, that's really hard to feel like we're not doing anything about the rest of the world in some ways. Because that this is what I feel like. There's a lot of people that that will reach out to me about different parts of the world, and Palestine was a big one, and like I got a good friend who like has gone all in on fighting for Palestine, and and I've struggled with some of that because I I know how much evil and suffering there's in the world, and then sometimes it feels like what the heck am I doing? Like I'm just sitting here living in my nice little house and enjoying my nice little life. And I feel like some of what you're seeing is people feeling a lack of purpose, and then I go back to Jesus going, but Jesus was like, okay, but here's the big thing love, love your neighbor, love God, love your neighbor. Just do that. And I don't think we trust him with that. You know what I mean? Like I think we struggle.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I think it's just I think some of it, I think some of it is the lens at, you know, from which we look. I mean, there was no way that someone could have an impact, like like a larger impact. Like I just think of if somebody was to run for office somewhere, like there was literally like one or two national newspapers. There was literally like you'd have a local newspaper. So you'd have to like, you'd have to like win your local area and connect with people locally, and you'd have to write like letters to each individual person, and you'd have to visit with them, and you'd have to build relationships, and you'd have to foster, you know, uh uh who you were and the image that you were. It have to be developed and it would take time and it would it would take like years and years and years for people to get to know you, and then from there you might have a platform that you can kind of launch further out into like, oh, people knowing you in a more you know statewide. You know, like now it's like, well, I can if if I become popular, you know putting something out on Instagram or, you know, all of a sudden I've got 5,000 followers and all I did was post two things.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Like it just it feels like you're doing something, but you're really not. But it feels like you're having an impact because all of a sudden there's so many people that are, you know, following you. When it was never like that. And I think there's kind of a like we've almost allowed ourselves to be tricked into believing that that's having an impact.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Right. And I'm not saying it can't, but I'm I was gonna say I think there are people who use it incredibly well. Like I think there's always and I mean from on the flip side, the early version was if you had money and power, you could just get in those positions and there's nothing anybody could do anything about it, right? Like I think there's pros and cons with both. I think in either which way you look at it and you go, if you lose the right purpose and you're given a position of influence and power, you can do a lot of damage. And I don't think people realize the damage you can do on social media and do on, you know, you think about the incident in Almer a couple weeks ago with the supposed school shooting, like there was no truth to it. And people were losing their minds, like absolutely losing their minds. There's power there. And so I do think like um as we try to go back to kind of like how does Easter play into this, it is all those little things. Like if you look at the impact of the churches in North America, specifically in the US, because the church has a lot of power there, if you yield that power well, but they haven't. And right now we're in a pretty dark place, and a lot of the the intersection of faith and um power and faith, and you know, the which party does your church belong to.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

And if your pastor doesn't say a certain thing on Sunday, then you need to go find a new church.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

So I think and I think you guys can hear this constantly coming through us is this we have to be faithful small, and if God allows us to be big, then cool. If God wants us to be a huge church, if God wants us to have influence beyond Mount Salem, cool. But our call is to be faithful with a little area and the small place that we're in. And I think for everyone listening, the workplace that you're in, that's where you're supposed to be faithful.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

The family that God's given to you, the spouse, the kids, the community that God put you into?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I do I do think it's interesting in our No, this is this is an aside.

unknown 22:02

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Oh, I was just about to get on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

No, I just so I think with Easter though, I think that's what as I've gotten older, and that's why I kind of pushed a little bit with you on like what does that actually mean that everyone needs Christ? And I think what we see both in the church and in sports and in everywhere we go, people are lonely. Well, what are Christians supposed to be known for? We're supposed to be known for our love. People are anxious. What are we supposed to be known for? We're supposed to be known for peace. People feel hopeless. What are we supposed to be known for? We're supposed to be known for hope. And so as you interact with people, you see all the things that they're longing for. Scripture says, you as Christians, you're supposed to have.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Right.

unknown 22:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

And so I think there's a, you know, we used to talk when you were younger, but everybody's got a hole in their heart and only Jesus can fill it. And you kind of say it and you're like, I don't know what that means. And then you get older and you're like, I know I get what that means.

unknown 23:01

Right?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I don't know where else to find hope. I don't know where else to find peace. I don't know where else to because as soon as my circumstances don't go good, then all the peace that the world can bring is kind of gone. And so I think with Easter, I don't know. I guess I guess that was kind of my hope with bringing this up. I feel like there's a lot of people struggling with it, at least in our conversations. Um people wrestling with what's happening in the world. There's a lot of anger towards a lot of different world leaders, um, whether it's for tariffs or whether it's for where we're choosing to deploy bombs or not deploy bombs, and I think there's all sorts of stuff like that. And I think sometimes those conversations aren't bad. But our purpose is smaller than that. Our purpose is to start and let's make sure we don't drop the bombs on our family gatherings at Easter and make sure that you know we model all those things there, and then from there, if we can buy into that and then we'll see what God can do. Because if God can use 12 disciples and explode the gospel around the earth, certainly he could do something pretty profound. But the disciples were the opposite of us, they didn't feel like they could reach the whole world, and they didn't feel like the world was their responsibility. Whereas we feel like we can and we should, and we have an opinion on every part of the world and every government, and yet then we neglect the key calling, and that is you're supposed to love one another, and you're supposed to model this, and you're supposed to be in a relationship with God, and you're supposed to walk around with your head held high because we're at peace. God is good, He wins. And so as we go into Easter, I think that that's kind of my hope for you guys. Um, those of you guys that listen that I I don't know exactly what what would Jesus do in Venezuela or what would Jesus do in Iran. I don't know. I know what Jesus would do in Mount Salem, and I think that's where I have to be faithful. And then if I ever get the platform where God says, hey, I want you to speak into something broader, then I I hope he'll give me the words and give us the words, but we're not there. We're just two little guys from Mount Salem who love the church and and love Jesus and trying to figure out what all that looks like, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And so short podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I think it is short, isn't it? We did good. Oh wow, that's like 25 minutes. Hey, I like it. I think we're done. I think we're good. Anything you want to add? Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday? Yeah. Come on out. 10 a.m. in the morning here. 6 30 in the evening. Yeah, 6 30 in the evening. Yep. So should we get? And then Good Friday. And then Easter Sunday. Celebrate. And then we kick off a new series after that.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Should be fun. Looking forward to it.

unknown 25:46

All right.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Hey, good job bringing things in today. That was good.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Listen, we're well done.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

So I I like working with you. But I also know, like hundred directions. You know what it feels like? It feels like um doing if if my dad were to ever have the willingness to sit here with me. That's what I feel like it'd be like. Or my sister Sue. So when we get going on politics, it's a good, it's a good go. And so yeah. Anyways, love you guys. Have a great day. Talk soon.