SPEAKER_01 0:00

Good morning, Trevor.

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Morning, Trevor. Morning, Church. Hey, we are uh we are jumping back into podcasts. And so over the summer, um, one of the things that we want to do, so we got kind of finished talking about uh our uh vision stuff, uh, we want to just jump around on the book of Acts through I think most of uh a lot of the rest of the summer. So we'll do some sermon stuff still. Love the book of acts. But as we're going through it, we figured uh I'd like diving a little bit more into this. So it has been uh it has been in really good. I've enjoyed going through the book of Acts. And so that's kind of what we're doing. When you break out the old KJV. That's where the notes are.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We told uh I just saw the story.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Hey uh, so let's start with um how you doing? I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Oh yeah? Yeah, I'm I'm still recovering from trying to keep uh myself feeling young and work in the right direction physically. So my legs are a little bit sore this morning, but I had a great night's sleep. It's fantastic. I'm doing well. Um recovering from a Monday, you know. It was a Monday. Uh just a post it was a Monday, right? Um But it was good. Like things are good, kids are good, family's good, like uh there's things that roll through the brain, like when you like you know, um but other than that, I think I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

How about yourself? How are you doing? It was wonderful. This morning the Lord blessed me with a 320 wake-up call.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

What?

SPEAKER_03 1:19

No, it was really good. And so then what I did was 320, bro? So what I did was I didn't go back to sleep. And so it's been really good. It's been a good long day.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

So you're like five hours in, almost six. You're almost six hours into the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

And then like all of a sudden there's a kid walking around, and then there was a helicopter flying for like hours, and I'm I'm and no, this may sound really because it was minus two, so they were gonna say frost of froth, yeah. But in the middle of the night, I was like, they're searching for somebody. Like somebody is really missing. And then I'm like, helicopter at night. Like that's so you're going through all this stuff. So, anyways, um it's been a long day, and it's it's been it's been good.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

They've been flying out um east of no, west of Elmer. So I don't know if there's like an orchard out there that I oh maybe it's the orchard that's over on uh um man, what's that uh where Elmer Missionary Church is on that? Rogers. Rogers. There's uh an orchard out there uh as you head out to Springwater. Maybe that's where they've been flying. Because I I've heard them a few nights and I'm like, what is why are they flying at? I'm hearing it, I'm sitting there, I'm trying to enjoy, you know, some sleep, some some hockey or bathing. And all I can hear is, and well, Juanita typically listens to her her hockey with like no volume. Oh it makes it easier for her to sleep. And I'm like, you can't even hear anything. I don't need to hear it. I'm just watching it. I'm like, no, this is not what we're doing. So usually it stays quiet until I get the remote. Uh I have to wait for her to fall asleep. So that's kind of like the strategy. So hopefully the game is kind of like very, you know, monotone and she doesn't get excited about it, and then she falls asleep. I get the and then slowly turn deep dee. But like that's kind of like Yeah. We're so old. Oh, dude. It's so awesome. So we talk about I'm like, oh man, we're so old. It's so much fun. All the old guys are out there going, yeah, yeah, that's what you gotta do. You gotta, that's a great approach.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

So let's uh let's let's kick off a Thursday. I know everybody's pretty eager. Um congregational meeting.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Congregational meeting. So we're forward to seeing like a hundred and fifty to two hundred adults show up for our congregational meeting where we're gonna have some serious discussions. Yeah. Right there. Right there.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Yeah, we're looking at you, church. Yeah. Nah, it'll be good. Uh kind of excited. So it'll be kind of the the we've presented the vision, kind of where we're going for the next 12 months. Um, and so then uh after Thursday, we kinda kick start and giddy up and away we go and plan.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Um Yeah, all the things that we've been kind of getting into the starting positions and kind of working our way. We're about ready to fire up.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

But man, it's been wild. Like so you have the stresses of um what's gonna go and starting new groups and going to two services, and how does that all look and building and blah blah blah. Volunteer alignment. But it is wild when you take a step back and go, man, the amount of people giving their life to Christ, the amount of people taking next steps, the amount of conversations we're having with people who are like, I want to go all in. Um it's been wild.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, we we I I think a big shout out, like awesome. I I think I I love seeing people like step into Jesus and just like, you know what? I'm let's let's do this. Let's let's see like where my faith experience is going to take me. And I think that's a like so cool. Like I'm so excited for so many people that are like, all right, you know, and I'm I'm I look at my life and I'm like, I've been around faith now since I was 18, 19. And I'm like, I get so stupid excited seeing like seeing people with like a alright, God, I'm not done yet. Like, let's go. Like there are and and we've got such an amazing cross-section of generations um that are that are like, yeah, I I'm in. I want to see this happen. I want to see God do something. I'm not done, I'm not done having God do miracles in front of me and have God change lives in front of me and have God like do wild things in front of me. I want to see more. And I just think that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

And being done at a really cool and creative scope. Like we met with a businessman a while ago who was talking about they have chaplains on staff at their factory because people need to be loved. And it's not about forcing people to Jesus, it's about just loving people and doing it in the name of Jesus and seeing like creative ways of like that of living at your faith instead of just the normal, well, we'll do a church thing. No, not no, this is a business thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, I actually see it as like I think cities and corporations should literally have chaplains on stuff. I think there should be like community chap like I just think it should be like, nope, we're we're actually leaning into faith. We're leaning that this is an aspect that is real. It's an aspect that people need, it's an aspect that, you know, it it's it's it's a part of the of the human experience which is necessary. Right. It there is no question that we're spiritual beings.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

There's just there's there's none. Anybody who believes otherwise, you're not doing the math, right? You're just not. You the humanity is spiritual. We are searching for answers. We are so and we are missing pieces if we're not connected uh to our creator, if we're not connected to God. We're missing those parts. And I just think the difference that it makes in our communities is unreal. And I I just there's so many needs, and I business the same thing. Like I like we need to move away from the idea that the highest profit margin is the best outcome. It's not. Making better communities is the best outcome where people are thriving and people are like together and they're connected. And anyway, I'm I'm tangenting off in many ways here.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

No, but again, it looked it's it's about sustainability. And I mean it's the same thing when you when we think about the church here, like healthy staff means a long-term healthy church. Healthy elders, long-term healthy church. Healthy family, like there's all those things like it matters. Yes, you can shortcut that and treat people poorly and get results fast. You just can't maintain them. Yeah. And so when you think about building a community, yeah, you can. You can start a factory, you can, you know, make a lot of money. But if the community around you sucks, like what do you end up with? You're rich in a community that sucks.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, there's that verse, right? The verse in Proverbs, a wise man, a good man. He leaves an inheritance to his children's children. And there's that idea that that immediate downloading is not the the method that's going to give you the long-term generational after generational benefit. You there's actually like a part of the that good decision making bypasses the initial download because you see things that you don't see and you provide for the next person. So there's like this this need to see beyond just what's in front of you. There's the there's there's a blessing, there's a goodness, there's a there's a righteousness, there's a justice to further down the line. Because there's a the one that's close to you might might not see the how or the why of what you put your effort in and that why like that struggle that you had. So you bring it to the next one and you it it allows it to transition further down the road. And I think there's something about that that you know we've missed. And we need to kind of think about a little bit and go, okay, what is what am I doing that's stretching further? Right. Because I see, and I'm a parent, right? Like I see what's right in front of me, and I see why my kids to have what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

At least you have your glasses on.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Right, right. Like I I want my children to like they're there because I have this.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

That's my only joke. I'm sorry. I can't read on something like that. I just you said you could see what was in front of you. I'm like, you could.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Okay, like I get the humor. But like, no, I think there's an aspect to that that, you know, in how we see things, I think it's important. And like you think about how, you know, how God sees things. He, you know, him existing outside of timeline, while at the same time he's he's active within it allows him to see further down. So when he makes decisions, it's it's stretching like it's the same thing where if you're gonna, um I heard a guy talk about plowing a field and he's this old farmer guy, and this is the way his dad taught him to plow a field. Son, if you're gonna plow a field by just looking right in front of the tractor, you'll never plow a straight row. You'll never plow like it won't it won't work. But if you if you set your eyesight way out in the distance and you have a line out there and that's your target that you're gonna set at, that further distance that you're stretching allows for your line to be a lot straighter. Right. So you remove a lot of the short-term kinks because you're following that long line. Right. And I mean, even in framing, the guys that are listening that you know have had to straighten fascia on you know the side of a multiplex structure where you're dealing with 150 feet of fascia and you're trying to get that line looking really good. You you you're not looking at just like the 20 feet in front of you. You have to go end to end so you can straighten everything in between. And having that distance allows for a lot of the ups and downs that would come to be to be pulled further out. So they don't, they're not as up and down. They're they've been so I I think, yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

I think when we talk about a vision right now, like that's part of the thing. Okay, so what decisions are we making right now that when you know my grandkid Jordan is in leadership, what church did we leave that generation? Right. Because a lot of the things that in and we see this as we're both getting older, we're we're starting to see this. Like you you begin to really want things to stay the way they are, especially when they're successful. I don't want to change anything. I don't want to risk anything because things are going really well. But if we don't change the trajectory, if we don't think about two generations down, what are we leaving for them? Are we making the hard choices to leave something that's prepared for them? Or because I think often we just worry about us and our kids.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, well, I think this is like you I think you're right. I think you like and I think of our church here, like the the generation that stayed when a lot of people like they've they they struggled and they fought and they worked and they they served and they sacrificed to make sure that this place stayed, you know, for their kids. And you know, you you you look at that and you're like that that would be a hard thing to be like, all right, or what are we doing now? Why? Like like this is we've kept it alive. We've like, you know, this has been good, it's worked. It's like, you know, where are we going from here? Like it can be a complicated thing, especially when things have gone well. And again, that's that's a difficult transition to make.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Like it's like if you look at you look at it, so it's really interesting. So mom and dad will fight for the church, and so we'll be in this boat. We're gonna fight for the church. Our kids at some point are gonna step into leadership, and often, often, it ends up being they come back to church or they really engage in church once you've had a child. Yeah. Major life event, it could be marriage, but usually it's a child where you start thinking, shoot, it's more than just me. So just because I have faith doesn't mean my kid is gonna have faith. So I need to be a part of a church community. Once you get in there though, if you cannot see past your own child, it's a very short-term vision. But what about your kids' kids? And what about their kids? And and I just think it's really healthy. Like I know you've mentioned that verse quite a few times in the last little while, and it's so it's really like stuck in my head. But it it's because it's a whole different framework. Like when I think, okay, well, if I just think of my kids, like my work is almost done.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, it's wild, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Like But then I start going, you know, okay, well, Jordan and Eastern are in Sunday school, and Ryland's in Sunday school, and then I start going, okay, well, what kind of like you think about AI coming in? Are are is the church prepared to help those kids walk through that? Is it in who's developing those leaders? And so it's it's one of those things that as we're thinking about this, um, really trying to think further ahead. Um so I think it's really important. Um so what I want to do um for the time we got today, I'd like to chat about Acts uh four. And uh the reason I don't have my Bible on me is because we don't have a desk big enough and for for a guy who makes a lot of fun of your glasses, I got a pretty big Bible. Pretty big Bible.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

I can't even set my my cup down here when I because it was just a whole it was covered in Bible. Like like and everybody wonders, like, oh no, are they preaching from the Bible? Oh, we got Bibles. Oh, we got Bibles. Bibles everywhere. Too big.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Too big. Um Okay. Uh what's your thoughts on, you know, because you you come from a bit of a different uh context. Your thoughts on the disciples in that moment of going, um God, you see the obstacles, but give us boldness that away. Because I I feel like you're far bolder than I am. And so I feel like you're the the way you live versus or is that an environmental thing? Or like because when you tell me that some of the stuff you guys did, like it's wild. And not just like they played cartag in downtown Woodstock once. I don't know if there's statute of limitations on this kind of information. Pete Simons, any of the opium officers, if you're listening. I'm curious, kind of on on on your take on it, because to me that that hit really hard again um going into this next season, even you know, we were talking last night at elders' meetings, like as you're making these decisions, um, there is always a percentage of people who hate what you decide. No matter what you decide.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

And so it was actually funny later on, uh, I was chatting with Joe, so I'm just like, I'd I would I'd really love to not be in leadership. Like I'd love to not have to make decisions. Uh-huh. Because that, you know, no matter what we decided, people are gonna be frustrated. And that's normal. It's part of parenting. It's a part of and anyways, but just thinking about some of the like uh I think sometimes when we read this verse, all we think about is like the the just that courage to evangelize. But I think this this steps into a lot of a lot of different areas, like the courage to go start a business. Everybody looks at Dave and Mary and they're like, oh, that's great. Well, that takes courage, like huge obstacles. You look at a lot of their journey. So anyways, there's a lot of things that that run through my head when I hear this, but I was just curious, kind of your initial thoughts when when you think of that verse.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I don't know. I think there's a de there's a degree of detachment from valuation that has to be present.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

You're gonna have to. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

You just have to have like a you almost have to be like you just you don't care in a sense. Like like the the the opinions that are expressed do not necessarily, you know, reflect the, you know, you hear those things before shows are on TV and the network is kind of like preemptively saying So you mean you have to live in a way where like you're not other people's opinions aren't necessarily No, like what I what I mean is like I appreciate and value other people's opinions. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm gonna allow their opinion to hold me to what I believe is truth and what I believe needs to be said.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Like it you're you're just not gonna change that truth. Like I'm sorry, you're not. And like even filling out the government census this last little bit. I'm like, there were parts on there where I'm like, this is just irritating, and I want to fill this out in a different way because I do not agree with some of the questions you're asking. I think it's stupid. I think you're not like no, I just but tell us how you really feel. I think there's just things that we we just I think from the fact that we don't live in, like I think our culture has gotten so comfortable with with how easy it can be to just have enough to get by that we have so little like to do or thought that's put into how to make stuff work that we have to come up with things to keep us busy. And that just creates all sorts of like stupidity. And it just drives me insane. Like, if you were, I guarantee you that somebody who's entrepreneurial, who's trying to drive a business, does not have a time to wonder if two plus two equals four. He just is like, no, it's four, and I need to work on whether or not I have the right equipment in place, the right, the right job lined up. I need to go speak to the guy where my next job is, make sure my crew's working here, and while they're I'm at the next guy, I'm trying to line up new work because I know if I don't have that ready, my crew, he doesn't have time to be wondering about things that aren't necessary.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Just help help me a little bit. I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I know, but where does it connect to what the question is? It connects here. And Josie felled out the census, so I don't even know. It connects here where I feel like um Jesus said go into all the world and make disciples. Okay. That is who you are. You are a disciple-making person. He like literally said, when he when he had Adam and Eve in the garden, he was like, This is your space, work the garden. Here's what you are you are to, this is your this is your job, right? And I know that's a very generalized, and we can get in all sorts of details. The detailed people will be like, ah, there's more, right? Like, yes, but he was to tend the garden, he was to keep the garden, that was his job. He gave the disciples, go into all the world and make disciples, baptizing them in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I've taught you, and lo I will go with you, I'm with you always until the ends of the earth. Amen. Right? So he literally said, I'm gonna be with you as you go to make disciples. Primary responsibility. Yes, I'm to be in communion with him. Yes, I'm to have fellowship with him. How am I gonna do that? Through the empowerment of the Spirit that He says that He's gonna provide with me, to go with me, to be with me, to go before me, to go behind me. Yes, I understand all that, but he said, We are to be the light and salt of this world. That is our primary thing. You're going about what you're supposed to be doing. What are you worried about? Like, that is like your job. That's your occupation. You need to make it happen. Now, I know that like that's a very rigid kind of like box linear, like compartmentalized view. I understand that it's attached to you can detach from that and just turn it into like, I'm going to this house, I'm gonna talk to this person, say this prayer, and you're gonna I get all that. I understand that there's relational components that come with that and should come with that, and that should just be part of the natural human process that I'm building friendships and relationships. But as part of that, I'm sharing what God has done for me because I wouldn't be here without Him.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

So I'll almost to the if if I can hear you right. So we're almost to the point of like, okay, so when you sign up to a framer, you can't show up on the job site and be like, well, I'm not climbing up there. Like that's a part of it. And so part of faith is gonna be some of this risk. Right. Like you're assuming.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Right. So as a framer, okay, so when I started framing, the first thing I was like, what does a framer need when he shows up to the job site? First off, what do I what do I need to have? Okay, I need steel toed boots, right? I gotta have those on. That's necessary. What else do we need at? Oh, a hard hat. I need to have that. What else does a framer need? You're gonna need a tool belt. Right. Okay, what what do I need it? Well, you're gonna need multiple pouches on the tool belt. Why? Well, you're gonna need to have a place for you know two and a half inch nails, a place for three and a quarter inch nails. You're gonna need a pouch for your measuring tape, you're gonna need a pocket to be able to put in your square, it needs to have a slot for the pencil, it needs to have a place for the hammer to go, it needs to have the appropriate sections so that you can carry the tools necessary so that when you show up to the job site and your boss says, Hey, I want you to go do this, this, that, you have everything on you to be able to accomplish that goal. In a general, these are the basics. Okay. I have the tools that I need to do the job that I'm supposed to do. Now I'm wearing that tool belt for one reason. I'm wearing that tool belt to do the job that my boss has asked me to do.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

So when the Bible says that he's going to give us the tools that are necessary to speak the word of God, that means he has supplied us with a tool belt. We wear that tool belt for what reason? To do the job that he's asking us to do. I that is just like in a very, again, compartmentalized view of what's happening here. So that's what he's saying.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

So like do you think part part of the problem, and so we had this uh our last leadership thing, we talked a lot about our two anyways. We talked about the uh armor of God that Paul talks about. Right. And as we broke it down, we began to go like most of us aren't armed. Like we don't we don't take a lot of this seriously. And so part of the problem with courage is it's like when I was in the fire hall, um it takes courage to go into a house fire. It's stupidity to walk in without gear. Right. And so a lot of us when when you think about what you're saying, like having the right equipment, is it possible that we don't take that seriously enough? So when we walk out, it's not about courage, it's about we're just not prepared.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, I I think there's a preparation part that sets you up for um your fear to override you in the moment.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Because I remember I remember that we were in uh years ago we're in Springfield, and we so it was Dave and I that went in. And so we go into the house, you can see smoke, but you don't know where the fire is per se. So we go in and you can see the door, and the fire is licking under the door. And there's that moment of panic, you're like, okay, this is real. You know, and then you start going, well, where's the fire? Is it underneath us? Us? Is it above us? Like where anyway, so you have all those thoughts running through your head, but you have your full gear on. You have air on and you have a radio to communicate. And so it just struck me as I was thinking about that, because I remember like the armor of God was something that was cute when we were in youth. And we used to do this thing, and uh, you know, somebody would dress up, like, yeah, put on the full armor of God, and we're like, yeah, and and then you don't you don't really think about it. But even what the armor is is fascinating. But then we look at a verse like this and we go, okay, well, you know, bold, I'm gonna be bold, I'm gonna be courageous. But they were also prepared, like they were surrendered. They were in a place where they had fully said, like, Jesus, I'm all in. And so I think there's also there's a lot of different layers to it that we can talk about.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Well, I think trust sometimes, like I give you an example. Trust is all uh I mean, uh courage is also rooted in trust. So I g I give you an example of this. So um we were framing a side split uh in St. Thomas out on uh man, I want to say Centennial, but uh it's uh sunset, out on sunset. And uh we had a newbie who was on site. Um brave guy, right? Can talk all the smack in the world, right? Like he was he was tough. He was a tough young, tough young man. Um so we were setting trusses, which requires, you know, the stack of trusses to be put up on top of the walls. Uh and old school days, sorry safety people. Um, this is prior to them really enforcing how stuff was done on walls. Um, you would move your trusses around on your walls and then you would stand them and you would do it all without like safety ropes and stuff like that. So typically speaking, interior wall work, you're up eight feet. Um if if it's a nine-foot ceiling, like you're it's nine feet. As a person in your 20s, you fall from nine feet, you're not really getting hurt at all. You might you might get a little bit sore from the from the impact, but it's not. Outside walls, you're probably looking at about 12 feet, but you're typically falling into dirt roll, right? Like it's uh but you're you're you're good. Um all the guy, they uh everybody knows who's listening. So anyway, we're gonna we had stood our girders.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

If I fall off a 12-footer, me and Jesus are gonna have a talk, probably face to face.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

The girders have gone up, which means the the the extents of both houses uh of the roof on the on the house have both been like set in place, which means your boundaries are there. Everything else is gonna be pulled two foot center off that. So we were going to stand those trusses. So the way that works is that the guys on each end are gonna drag the trusses along. The guy in the middle is just gonna hold it up and walk along the wall in the middle of the house. So he's walking along a two by six wall. On the one side, it's a um it's an eight-foot drop of that two by six wall that he's walking on. On the other side, it's a 12-foot drop because it's a side split. So there's four extra feet of drop on that. So he has a center post that he gets to hold on to, so a whole truss that weighs probably a hundred pounds or more that he gets to hold on to. And all he's doing is he's gonna walk along and hold that and walk along the wall as we drag the truss along the outside walls, put it in place, set it on the line, and then nail it home, tack on a one by four so it stays up, and then go do the next one. Not complicated. Very simple. Okay. So him moving that truss, he couldn't do it, staying on the center wall. We would get to the edge of where that 12-foot area would be, and literally his legs would start to like visibly shake, like knee-knocking shake, like from terror. Now, all he had to do was trust that if he held on to the truss, he couldn't fall. Right. He couldn't fall because you're not moving that truss for it to fall off the it's impossible, it doesn't happen. I've never seen somebody hold it and the truss come off the wall from their they can't, they don't have enough body weight.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

So you could say he lacked trust, trust.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Right. He he lacked the trust that was necessary for him to have courage. Because if he would just trust what the process was, that he would be fine.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

But there's no shortcut to gaining that trust.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

No. No, he you literally have to do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Right. You have to walk the and I think that's where you have to do it. Yeah. Our our knowledge-based faith often struggles because we're like, well, I if I learn a bit more, no, no, it's it's scary no matter what. Yeah. Like when when we uh you can speak for yourself, but when I stand up on stage, I'm scared every Sunday. Yeah. I have never done a sermon where I'm like, nailed it. Every sermon is like, there's a fear, there's a trepidation, there's a nervousness. Like it never goes away. But I think a lot of the things in our faith, we we just kind of go, well, maybe if I maybe if I push the trust on the bottom a couple more times, then I won't be scared. No, you still have to walk it. Now, given once you want yeah, once you've watched it a few times, yeah, you might be able to trust a bit more. But getting your legs to go up there is is still gonna take some work.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Like it's yeah, I think so. In his head, if I were to, if I were to frame it, frame it. If I were to piece this together, I would say his understanding of what was safe and and viable and what he could do was wrapped up in what he thought about himself. It wasn't wrapped up in what we knew what could be done.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

So the person, the people on the site who had the wisdom and experience that knew what was possible within a completely safe environment, he wasn't willing to trust the wisdom that was being given to him to be able to perform the task that was needed. I I was gonna say, um, in regards to the tool belt, a lot of guys who have been on site they'll they'll know this as well. I think sometimes people of faith um take their tool belt off really quick because it gets heavy. So a lot of times on a job site, you'll see a newbie show up and within a half hour of them working on the site, they'll take their tool belt off because it weighs like 20 pounds. Right. And it's just too much. It's it's heavy for them. They don't want to carry that weight. They'll set it down beside where they're working, but then what happens is they don't have quick access to what they need. So they'll be at one end of the wall, they gotta walk back to the other end of the wall to pull their, to get their hand their nail puller out and then go back to where they need to pull it out, come back and put their nail puller back, and they end up wasting a ton of time that's not productive, right? That's slowed the building of the house. I think of Derek's testimony of what he's saying about God wanting to build a mansion because he's gonna come and dwell in it.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Um and I think a lot of times as we um when you're really young and when you get older, I've seen a lot of old guys on sites take their pouches off quick because their bodies are tired. Right. And I see a lot of young guys take their tool belts off because they're not used to having that that yoke on them, that carrying of that load, right? So uh I I think that also happens in churches when it comes to people's giftings, right? And they they'll take off that and that that removes them from the ability to perform the function so they don't have to have courage because they won't be in the position anyway to have to exercise that when it comes to moments of fear. Well, they're not there because they're they're off the site.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Right. They're not able to like so I think that all plays into the So this went a little bit of a different direction than we expected, which is why I love doing this podcast. But um, go into Ephesians 6. So if you jump with me there for a sec, uh there's some really interesting things in there that's the armor of God. Yeah. Because I really think this is part of the issue is the lack of expectation and preparation. So, like, for example, tonight we're we're gonna go play our first game as our U11 team that we coach. We don't know how it's gonna turn out.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

No idea.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

What we do know is though that we're prepared.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, we've we've done a lot of preparation.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

We've done the best that we we possibly can. Yeah. So we're gonna get you up. But for us as believers, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

And so I can I can I just add one thing to your little analogy there. So last year coaching uh the same-level team, we thought we went into the year well prepared. Um I thought I went into the year well prepared. What I learned through the exercise of the year is that the entrance to my season was not as prepared as what I could have been, because I didn't have experience. Coming into this year, we have prepared by far more in some of the important areas that needed extra preparation that I didn't understand that ever needed. And I think sometimes in the Christian experience, we can get deflated by, oh, we tried. Oh, we and we put in a ton of effort. Yeah. And we tried to be courageous. And you did. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think you see the same thing in the scriptures where they make attempts and they fail. Yeah. Like they tried to cast out the well, how can you cast well this one requires prayer and fasting. I mean, like they well, what about that? Well, you just need to believe more. Like, you know what I mean? Like there's these things where the guy but instead of you know a complete abandonment, right? They realize that, you know, okay, we're gonna come at this again.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Well, and I think it's it's interesting because at the age that we're at with leadership, we have a lot of those we've tried.

unknown 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Like we can very quickly with all this stuff. Like, I mean, that was one of our struggles with small groups, but we've tried small groups. Yeah. Really? You you tried everything? Like it's such an arrogant statement as a leader to make. You tried everything, like you were the perfect leader who had the perfect situation. You but as you get older, you just we can so quickly be like, eh, we tried, we tried. And so I think it it it's interesting to learn from that. Oh, we failed. But that does not change truth or it doesn't change the reality that people need to be connected.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

The way we tried failed. Are you gonna learn from that or not? But anyway, it's okay. So finally, uh be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Um, and so I think one of the things that really um I have struggled with is to not to trust God. Like this sense, it's so smooth off the lips. Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. But man, I tell you, it's hard not to take control and be like, yeah, but I'm doing a good job. Like, I want to, and not that I don't think God is strong, but it says be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

You know what I think this is like? It comes so smooth off it. I feel like this is like when the butter is just at the right consistency, when the toast pops out and it just spreads so nice. No, it just sounds so bad. It's so easy, it just spreads all good. But like typically when I go to put butter on bread, it just mangles the bread. And I'm like, that's how like the difference sometimes between the way it reads and how we apply it in life is like.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

It's just it's like it's because first thing, if I were to say, Are you strong? Is your faith strong? Yeah. People would be like, well, no, it could just be strong in the Lord. In the Lord, it does not say get in a fetal position and beg God to do something. It says, No, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. And that the Paul says that a few times different ways that no, like you're going to receive strength and power from the Holy Spirit. Like, this is not, you are not supposed to walk. So um put on the uh full armor of God so that you can stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world, and against the evil or against the spiritual forces of this, oh, spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore, put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground. And so there's a couple things that uh I'll let you say what you want to say about that yet too, but there's a couple things that stand out to me. The one is when the day of evil comes, we live as if we're just like we we can control when that comes, like we're prepared. Like often I think about it, I'm like, how often isn't it like just you get so caught off guard? And it could be something, I mean, it says day of evil, but I mean this could be a diagnosis, this could be you know a separation, this could be friends getting divorced, this could it could be a million different things. But I think one of the things that Paul is saying is look, like, just because today's good doesn't mean you take your armor off. Just because right now feels like things are going perfect, like be prepared. Like you don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring. So if today's the day of warfare, like I think about this often in our weeks, Tuesday is my my dark day. Like Tuesdays were typically, at least emotionally, I really struggle. Just Sunday is so much energy, and then Monday is kind of a we recap all that and we kind of drive through it, and then by Tuesday, you're like, oh man, we gotta do this again. And so then often I'll crash pretty hard. I know that though. So I should prepare for it. But I think sometimes we go through this and we're like, well, no, when when the day of evil comes, I'll be. No, no, are you ready? Because it might come today, it might be later on tonight, it might be in a moment, and I feel like often Christians like even when you think about the whole deconstructing movement, so often those stories began with, and then this happened, and then that's why. So the day of evil happened. Were you able to stand? Now it's not to say that day of evil didn't happen, it's not that the evil isn't real, it's not that the pain isn't real, it's not not to mitigate any of that. But what Paul is saying here is that you should expect this, you will face it, it will come. Will you be ready? And then uh just to back up here, this is something we when we were chatting with leaders, I it was a really interesting conversation. Um, none of us believe um that uh verse uh 12 is real. Nobody lives like that. Like, honestly, like what when was the last time there was a church fight and people were like, all right, we need to realize this is a spiritual war and we're not battling against each other. We just don't.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

You mean like John's not my enemy?

SPEAKER_03 35:40

That's what I mean. Oh, but you know what I mean? But that's like we don't think like we again, this is it hit me so hard, and that's why sorry, Trevor. And sorry, John, whoever John is.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah, whoever John is sorry, John.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

It says, for our struggle is not against flesh and blood. Fascinating from who the author is. Because boy did he have a battle against flesh and blood.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, did he ever he wanted to go all the time?

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. So, you know, for for me, when I look at this, I'm like, man, I find it really hard. We had a situation just uh in probably a couple days ago, Dost and I were talking about it, and it just hit me so hard again. I'm like, this is just spiritual war. Yeah. Like what you're describing to me is somebody who is spiritually battling. But man, when you're in the middle of it, and so then I think of us as a church, like, okay, so we're going through some change. And it's going to become personal if people don't like it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have anything specific, so please don't mishear that. It's not like there's this huge, but things like that happen. And then I read this verse and I go, well, we don't think like that. So then what we do is because we don't think the battle is against the spiritual forces, we prepare as if the battle is against human forces. So then what we do is we talk a lot about um, we need to have good better communication, we need to have better strategies, and all of those things are great. I have preached on the I good. But if the battle is spiritual, we're not prepared for a spiritual battle. It's like going to a gunfight with a knife. It's not that you don't have a weapon, you're just not this that's not the battle that we're facing.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Right.

unknown 37:19

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

How's that how does that sound? Like it to me, it's I and and I please be clear, like this is me personally going, I struggle to see the world like this, and so I've heard this for so many years, and I struggle in moments when there's something going on or we have a disagreement, or to be able to see that part of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, I I think we live in with such material excess. And it's all very tangible and reachable, that it's hard for us to like sometimes it's hard for us to be able to have that duality of understanding that we're spiritual beings in a spiritual plane, and that there is this spiritual uh war that's going on. There is good and evil, there is right and wrong, there is and I think that disconnect can be hard. Because like I I I'm holding these glasses. These glasses help me to see physically, they don't help me to see spiritually. And that that that I can put these on and see physically, well, that is easy. It's it's not easy for me to go now wait. And what I see and hearing or feeling here in this moment, is that just Albert? Is that just Trevor? Are they are they just being knobs? Like, or what what what is actually happening? I can call out the behavior, right? Fine. But what's going on? Right. Like, why are they acting that way? What's what's happening in their day? What's what is provoking them? What is making this happen? What is something that's doing this to see? Like I think about the story of Saul and David, and I think like, you know, he was literally being provoked by an evil spirit, and that was causing him to behave in a way which was outside of his character. Right. Like he literally wouldn't do the things he was doing. Like it just wasn't, it's not wasn't him. So like I feel like we we oftentimes just revert to the simple. Oh, that guy's just a well, have we prayed for that person? Have we covered them? Have we have we made sure and then see what kind of change happens, you know? I I think you're I think your application is I I I think it has a lot of a lot of truth to it. And I and I think that's a difficult thing for us, though. So I just don't think we're strong there. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

You just gotta think though, like, okay, so when going back to this knob thing. Going back and going, okay, so if if we're gonna start looking at this as a battle for Patrick's not just bat Patrick's soul, let's not get so dark, but for Patrick's health, for Patrick's if we're looking at it, what is it if you are going to be Satan, if you believe that Satan was real, how would Satan take you down? And so then when when you look inside the church, the easiest sorry if I'm boring sorry if I'm boring you, Patrick. No, I was just thinking he would tire me out, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:20

He would tire me out.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Look, there's a guy that fell asleep during Paul's preaching. I know. And it turned out to be the greatest miracle. So like hold on. I want to finish back to the story. Okay. ADD. That's right. We're everywhere today. Um so if if you begin to think of it in that way and you begin to go, okay, so if you think I'm responsible for my race, anything that is driving me from my race is not of God. So then when I'm coming into work and I'm angry at Trevor or I'm angry at you or whatever, and it is taking me away from the race that God has called me to run, it's not necessarily a right or wrong always. Sometimes it's just Satan wins a full day because you gave an entire day over to him because you chose bitterness, you chose anger instead of saying, no, I'm gonna walk in my calling today.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

And I think sometimes we we don't see it that way. Like, okay, so I'm responsible for me. I'm not responsible for you, but I am responsible for me. So if your action causes me to be that mad that it ruins my day, that's a me problem. And when we think about it in the human, then I go, I just need a better coworker or I need a better policy. When you think about it in the spiritual, you're like, okay, well, what is it that Satan was worried you would accomplish today that he wants to take you away from?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Or slow you down.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yeah. Log you down.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Right? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah, I definitely I yeah, I I think that's that's a a good application of understanding of to for us to decide like we do it with our kids all the time. Like I'll hear my child say, Oh, he made me angry. No, you decided to react to something that and I I clearly was watching, and what you're reacting to with anger was so ridiculous that you would get angry about it, but you chose to be angry. Right. Where I've seen you before, like in almost every situation, you laugh and you play this back and you didn't get angry. So your brother was just thinking you were gonna do the same thing. But now, because of where you are, you're responding with a whole different response than what is normal. So you're and then you're saying, oh, he's making me do this. Right. No, you're normally laughing. You're the one who's different now and deciding that you're gonna have a different response. So it's you deciding. Yeah, I was my brain was tracking on this idea of how we're talking about this. Um, you know, oftentimes people run into trouble when they get really tired out, worn out, right? Yep. So then my question becomes when we're not wore out, how much are we actually walking in spiritual strength?

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Well, and so this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

So is that just a revealer of us not being spiritually strong because now that we're physically tired, all of a sudden we can't make good decisions? Like I get it. Like even our kids do this when they're tired.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

I think we're back to the leadership principle you taught us a while ago at staff meeting, is that you actually rest before the battle, not just afterwards. Right. And so when you're in that season where you are at peace, are you actually resting and preparing? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

So here's a thought that I don't think and this is something I've been picking up on with professional sports athletes listening to some podcasts and all this kind of stuff, because there's all sorts of guys now that are old guys jumping on podcasts, tell stories, right? So this is great. So I'm just like, go ahead, fella, tell me the stories, right? Like that's where I'm at, right? So I've uh Can you hear him better with the stuff? I was listening to uh listening to Gretzky, I was listening to um I was listening to who else was talking. Um I was a baseball guy. I was listening to a football guy. Um but their normal thing before going into a game, any game, is that I'm gonna lay down and sleep for a few hours. So they got their normal. Night's sleep, they went about their thing, and then before the game starts, they're sleeping two, three, four hours before that game. They're getting in like a rest before the battle.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

They're gonna sleep after the game, but they're getting in a big rest before the game. Otani's like this. He's he's like renowned for like he's gotta get 12 hours of sleep at night. He's got like there's like if he's not he's gonna sleep before the game, then if he's not getting his why? Because they know if they're not rested when the battle happens, they're not gonna be able to perform. They're not gonna be able to make decisions, they're not gonna be able to act in their strengths and giftings the way that they're supposed to because they can't. They're not rested. They're not resting in. They're not so that analogy is like that that's so true. I I and I we don't know that. We don't see their lives to know. Like we just we just think, ah, I can show up tired and I'll be able to do what I know.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

No, these guys are actually serious about what they're doing. So they're actually making sure their preparation is setting them up. So there's a lot to do there that yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Yep. So we carry on a little bit. We'll come back to X Ford. Yeah, we'll see, maybe potentially. Um We we covered a lot. We did, we did. Therefore, uh put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground and after you have done everything to stand. Um stand firm then. And and I don't think we'll dive into this, uh, but just I I find it intriguing. And again, it it's hard for me to sometimes get into Paul's mind. And and I wonder sometimes if um we're we're making giant assumptions. Like, was he super strategic with which part had which? Like, did he sit there and kind of go, okay, so spiritually, what needs to be on the chest? What needs to be on the stomach?

SPEAKER_01 45:50

To me in my head, I'm like, I think he looked at a warrior and he was like, they obviously thought about that. And then he's like, well, that would be for me this, and that would be for me that. Like I think he was just like, no, these professional guys who when I listened to podcasts about how Roman soldiers, you know, why they chose what they chose, it was incredibly strategic to their warfare to wear what they wore. Right. So this is what this dude is staring at. Okay, so what's with the red things? I I I just think it's intimidation and knowing who is who is on what side when the battle gets hot. So you can see markers to know you go to like, whoa, red thing. Nope, don't do that.

unknown 46:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

It's like a jersey. Super impressed. That's the only part of the uniform that I don't show. Stand firm then with a belt of truth buckled around your waist, the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with a readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. And I find that we we chatted about it quite a bit, and I find it really fascinating. So you got the belt of truth buckled, um, breastplate of righteousness, and feet fitted with the readiness that comes with the gospel of peace. What a fascinating statement.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Yeah. See, like their feet were ready for fighting. Fascinating. But his feet are ready with the gospel of peace. Like, do you know what I mean? Like it's a little bit like are you quick to make peace? Are you quick to right? Yeah. Because this battle will rage, but when the battle turns, are you ready to make peace? Uh uh. You know what I mean? Like there's like a there's a there's some really there's some really cool stuff there.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

I I I think it's and then it says in addition to all this, take up your shield of faith with which you can extinguish all flaming arrows of the evil one, take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. And it's it I find the whole thing fascinating what he does there. And I we're gonna do a sermon series on this uh in the next couple months, I think. But just really like, is is are those the things that we we prepare ourselves with?

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, is that totally sure they're in our tool belt. Like if we're to talk that.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Well, because you look at it, and the one that hit me the most was the the righteousness, while the righteous in the feet. Um, but I feel like I'm a pretty movie person. I feel like that one hits me because I like it. The righteousness is like a man, like what what takes leaders down? I I can tell you, guilt is a big part of it. Can I accept God's grace? Can I accept my brokenness? Or am I gonna allow Satan to go, you're trash?

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Just your everyday failures.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Where you you thought you were gonna lead it and then it didn't go at all the way that and is that gonna take you off the court so you can't swing again?

SPEAKER_03 48:37

Well, think about your identity. Like, do you see yourself as righteous or do you see yourself as a, you know, a really terrible person? Like how do you see yourself? Like, why are you and and again it's the breastplate, and so you're you're covering your heart going, Jesus declared that his death covered my sins. I have accepted that. And so then you go the helmet of salvation, and you go, man, like okay, well, the the whole brain piece and and thinking that no, no, I'm saved. Okay, there's there's a lot there that I find super fascinating. Um, and so then when I look at again going into war, how Satan takes us down, and how Satan takes me down, or the way he would fight with you or Trevor or you know, anybody in the church, recognizing that there is a planning from the evil one. We cannot, and I think it'd be super foolish to believe that we can see so much good being done without an intentional effort by Satan to destroy. Oh, yeah. What that looks like, no idea. Is it coming though? You better believe it is. And it may, you know, g we often think about this when we were on Sephares or any of those, you know, high-intensity spiritual events. The week leading up to it is always a fascinating week in terms of what's gonna happen, who's going to feel this or that, or you know, Satan's going to try to do something, but I we don't we don't think in those realms.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

And so then when we go into these battles, we go into it as just a physical thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Well, I I can tell you that I do not know the high school football schedule, but I know every single night they have a home game. I do not know typically when the tractable weekend is happening, but I could tell you when it's happening because there's enough noise from that part of the city that I know oh oh it's tractable. Oh, they must have tractable tonight. Oh, that's the night. Oh. And I think as we make noise, we might not even be on the radar. But the byproduct is is there'll be attention given to that noise that's coming. And I think for us, noise is uh like it's light. You know, you're you're gonna shine a light. And I I think God knows that when the light's shining bright, that the battle comes. But then he's like, that's what this is. So put your tool belt back on, get your armor on, and get prepared, because that's all part of it. Because I think healthy people of faith face those things.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

And as a church, as we go through all these things, Paul says we can stand firm.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah, we can stand firm. The gates of hell won't be able to do that. Put on the armor of God. It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

100%.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

You just keep and like what I like is that he says, just stand.

SPEAKER_03 51:28

Yeah. Just stand. Yeah. Your job is to stay where God has called you.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Let him let it come.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

And it is in God's strength and it is in his might that he will make you strong.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

And that's exactly what we told the guy in the middle of the house. Just stand, you're okay. Just stand. All you have to do is stand there. You're good. You don't have to do anything extra. And it just comes down to us going, Oh, God knows. All I have to do is stand.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

So bring the full circle and we'll shut her down. Um, courage. Um you can pray for courage, but God is going to do the work of preparing you. Yeah. And so some of this stuff is okay, well, you you can't put on the breastplate of righteousness if you refuse to give your life to Christ. You cannot put on the belt of truth if you refuse to study, and not just by yourself, but to study in community and allow yourself to be sharpened. You cannot say, you know, the Holy Spirit is, you know, the sword, but I don't know the word of God and I don't have any connection with God. So a lot of this is okay, so I want that courage. It's not as simple as just praying, it's as simple as praying, then obeying, then praying, then and it's this circle and cycle where again Peter learned. But when you see this Peter post post Jesus' resurrection, like this is this is a Peter who has experienced some things, who's experienced failure. And you're gonna go in that same journey. You have moments where you're walking on water, and then you have moments where you completely let everybody down, and that happened afterwards too. And you saw it in some of the early church leaders, you'll see later on in the book of Acts. They're bickering over stuff, they're fighting over things. This is this is a part of it. But if you want the courage, stand 100%. All right, hey, have a great day. We will see you uh Thursday. And if not Sunday, but Thursday first. Thursday first. Or else we'll have darn darn it.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

All right, duh.