24: Sustainable Beef Production Insights: Innovations in Cattle Management

In this episode of RUMINATE THIS, host Scott Zehr sits down with Dr. Kee Jim, founding partner, veterinarian, and manager at Feedlot Health Management Services, to explore the groundbreaking business strategy behind Blackshirt Feeders, one of North America’s largest feedlot operations with an annual capacity of up to 150,000 head of cattle. Dr. Jim shares insights into beef supply chain challenges, including national cattle herd shortages, the impact of drought-driven cattle sell-offs, and how these factors have created record-high cattle prices.

Learn how Blackshirt Feeders is setting a new standard for sustainable beef production by incorporating a methane digester fueled by manure. This innovation not only reduces the facility’s carbon footprint but also generates a new revenue stream by producing natural gas, aligning with the rising demand for eco-friendly agricultural practices.

Listen now to learn about Blackshirt Feeders’ role in shaping the future of the beef industry through sustainable practices and effective management.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello everyone, welcome to Ruminate This with Great Solutions. Join us as we explore ruminate nutrition and the impact of mycotoxins. Here we challenge your curiosity and explore new industry insights and research to optimize your herd health and performance. Hey everybody, welcome back to Ruminate This with the Grand Solutions. I'm your host, Scott Zare, and I have to admit to my audience today that I feel very fortunate about today's call one, because I actually never thought I'd probably be in a position to have a conversation like this with Dr. Key Jim. Dr. Jim, I first met you on one of these types of calls. Man, it's got to be five, six years ago now, and through a mutual contact, one Miss Lauren Osborne. And the more I've gotten to know Dr. Jim and albeit limited interactions since then, I followed, you know, kind of what you do and learned that we actually know a lot of the same people with guys like Mark Thomas, really all the folks from Dairy Health and Management Services. They call Lovell, New York home to their corporate office. And Lovell, New York is my hometown. So I'll let the audience take their pick as to which one of those things is the better thing to come out of Lowville, but it's probably DHMS. But with that, I want to welcome Dr. Key Jim to ruminate this. And Dr. Jim, if you would just give an introduction of who you are, where you're at in the world, and we can kind of go from there.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah, my name is uh Key Jim. I'm sitting here in our corporate office in Okatokes, uh, Alberta, Canada, uh, which is located uh slightly south of the city of Calgary. I've been involved in the beef cattle industry for uh over 41 years. I came here to Southern Alberta, Calgary area in 1983 as a newly minted veterinarian, graduated from the Western College of Veterinary Medicine a very long time ago. I started a company named Feedlot Health Management Services, which specialized in providing animal health consulting to feedlots. And at that point in time here in Western Canada, feedlots were just getting going, right? It was really the very beginnings of the commercial feedlot industry here. And over that time frame of roughly 40 years, Alberta has grown to be either the fourth or fifth largest cattle feeding area in North America. So each year, Colorado or Alberta could be fourth or fifth. They flip-flop a little in terms of total output, but they're very, very close. So I began my career as a consultant, and over a long period of time, that company grew from myself into approximately 150 employees, 57 veterinarians and PhD animal scientists providing feedlock consulting services around the world. Canada, the US, Mexico, China, Russia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, right? We've been in a large number of places globally. So it say it worked from an entity that started out doing animal health and ended up providing a broad spectrum of consulting services for feedlots. In 2019, that company, Feedlot Health, was sold to TELUS Agriculture. I would say a very large telecom in Canada. TELUS started to get into the ag space and started to buy up companies like ours across the both the livestock and agronomy value chain. But if we wind the clock back to the 1983, my other endeavor was I got involved in cattle feeding uh very early, uh invested in custom feedlots of uh putting cattle at custom feedlots, and very rapidly grew that business because underlying it was extremely profitable, right? You know, it was the beginning of the industry here in Western Canada. We had very inexpensive feed grains, the cheapest in the world, actually. And we also had a fat cattle market that was above the US market because the Canadian market for uh high-quality grain-fed beef was not being fulfilled domestically. So a very good environment for very rapid growth. And again, over a long period of time, we've been myself and my partners have become a large entity in cattle feeding in North America. We have new numerous feed five feedlots in Texas, two in Colorado. We built, I think what the topic for today is the black shirt feedlot in Nebraska, and we have feedlot operations in New Mexico. And as part of our involvement in the beef on dairy programs, we have numerous depots across the US and Canada for gathering up for gathering up day olds. We've also got involved in ranching, in backgrounding, and virtually every part of the beef cattle supply chain. So it's been it's been quite a ride for you know for 40 for 41 years, and we're and we're still at it and still growing.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So I want to ask from my own perspective as an entrepreneur. I started a business, maybe I should have got into cattle, but I have a maple business here in New York, and it's relatively new, about three years old. When you started the business, speedlot health, did you at that time in the 80s envision it would turn into this? Was there any part of that thought back then?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Not really. I was just, you know, trying to figure, find your way early on. And you know, the combination of the consulting and actually being involved in the you know, the ownership of feedlots and cattle was just a marvelous opportunity for growth and also right place, right time. It was the very best place in in North America for profitability at that point in time, right? So nothing makes you look smarter than significant profits early.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

That's a lesson that I need to learn, I guess. But you know, you you referenced black shirt, and I did want to bring that up in our conversation today. So I'm really curious. One, where did the name blackshirt come from for a feedlot? But two, could you share the maybe overarching inspiration behind that project?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Well, the term or the word blackshirt is the nickname of the Nebraska's football team's defensive unit. So any Cornhusker fan would know immediately what that refers to. And and it's appropriate because the feedlot is located in in Nebraska. And one of the partners that's involved is actually from a town very near where the feedlot is called Benkleman, Nebraska. So one of our partners there at Belke group grew up there. So a little bit of how we came to that location is we wanted to grow and we wanted to continue to expand. And so our group said, all right, there's really isn't a lot of feedlots big enough left to buy, right? That are, you know, that are for sale in the various locations. And so we thought, well, why don't we ask ourselves from first principles, where's the very best place to build a feedlot in North America? Right. And oddly enough, I'm not sure that people have asked themselves that question. I think typically what people have done, what we tend to do in agriculture is we build things where we live. Yeah. It may or may not be the best location, but we may, you know, we make it work. So we looked at it from first principles, and you know, what are the primary siting criteria for a feedlob? When the first thing would be to think about would be what is the corn basis, you know, the relative price of corn. You know, what is the proximity to packers, right? What is the weather like? Those are probably the three biggest things to think about. And with the site that we've chosen near Hegler, Nebraska, you know, meets the criteria. It's got a good core basis. Dundee County, where it's located, is one of the largest corn-producing counties in the US, but with lots of irrigation for security of supply. When you look at a map, there's nine major packing facilities owned either by the big three or owned by large regionals within 275 miles of the feedlot. So it's you know very well located. And we talk about the weather, and that's always been the issue with or potential risk with cattle feeding in Nebraska, is the weather, right, where it can get muddy and cattle really dislike mud, right? So typically there's a lot of cattle fed in Nebraska because of the corn price, but a lot of those producers run the risk of catastrophic weather events and it takes all of your corn basis savings away. It seems to happen fairly, fairly frequently. So we weren't as concerned about that because this feedlot is going well, that's that's under construction. We've done about 50,000 heads so far, and it's on its way to 150,000. We have what's called roller compacted concrete, right? So the cattle are on concrete, and that way you're preventing the weather at the mud event from cutting into your profitability, right? So the design innovation of roller compacted concrete allows you to pick your location where historically you'd be not necessarily wanting to go because of the weather risk, right? So I think it's a bit of a unique project in that, you know, the it was based as prime primary study criteria. You know, where's the best spot? We're just we're just gonna go where we think it is the right spot for fundamental reasons, not just because we live there.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I I think that's actually a good lesson for I think a lot of business owners in general, but you know, so right, I always talk about location, location, location. Well, we have ample resources to feed the cattle. You just mentioned all the packers that are within, you know, a stone's throw semi truck drive away from the location. But then it's a good demonstration of maybe thinking outside the box a little bit to combat the weather. And so with that, I I think that's uh it actually ties in well to as I've talked to you over the years and followed a little bit of your career. You're you're not afraid to challenge the unconventional if it ties in and works or challenge the the conventional wisdom if you can make it work and and have it be part of a profitable structure. So yeah, I think that's kind of unique about Flackshare.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, so some other features that I think are are unique as well is the fact that we're going to have a large-scale biodigester for making renewable natural gas, right? So the RCC roller compacted concrete is really a prerequisite if you're going to get into digestion, right? Because in a conventional dirt floor feedlot, the manure is too dirty or too much dirt in it in order to digest properly, right? So the the RCC is an enabler to consider biodigestion, and it's something that the dairy industry has embraced for a long time, and the feedlot are getting around to having a look at the technology. So I think it's an important part of being able to get another area to act as a contribution margin for running the feedlot. You're basically becoming much more part of a circular process where you're getting all of the value that you possibly can out of the manure. And for those not familiar with it, digestion does not change the fertilizer value or the NPK of the product, right? The methane has been taken off, but in the digest state, it still has the same value as what went in. So you're not detracting from the fertilizer value of the manure by running it through the biodigester. And I just believe that in the feedlow world, we're gonna have to look at you know other revenue streams if they're available, much like the dairies have for the last several years. But the big step is you need to have you know the RCC in place if you're going to do the digestion.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I'm gonna do a quick callback to an episode that we had a little bit ago here on Ruminate This with Dr. Jack Brett, and we were talking about the sustainability of dairy over the next number of years. And I I remember his comment being we have to stop looking at manure as waste. And what you're just talking about, what you're doing with the manure there at Black Shirt is the exact demonstration of what he means about that. It's actually a very valuable commodity, if you would, in a situation like this where we're able to produce power and still have the fertilizer, still have the nutrients to go back and continue the cycle.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

And then the I think the other feature of the black shirt feedlot is it's large, it's 150,000 head. And people have asked me, well, why would you want to make it so large? Well, I've owned feedlots from as small as 5,000 head, then to 10, then to 25,000, then to 50, and some of our Texas facilities are up to 80,000 head. Every step of the way, there has been significant economies of scale.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

So I think it's you know it's pretty simple. You need to get as many cattle as you possibly can at one site. You get an economy, significant economies of scale with size, but it's just as important for a digester, right? You need to be producing a lot of product to be able to make a digester financially viable in the beef cattle space. Because remember that the underlying price of the RNG in the dairy world is a lot higher than in the feed law world simply because of what's avoided emissions. So the dairy world is getting credit for the fact that the conventional practice is a lagoon, yeah. And then you change practice so that you don't have the methane coming off the lagoon. So what's called your CI score, carbon intensity, is anywhere from minus 180 to 200, whereas feedlot manure standalone could be zero or it could be up to plus 20, right? So that's the difference in the value, same product, it just has a different, right, different valuation. And we found in there are no large-scale commercial digesters in feedlots currently in North America, right? And you have to ask yourself, well, why is that? Well, it's because you got to get them, you got to get that digester big enough, economy of scale, to be able to cost effectively digest the manure from a beef cattle operation, right? So that scale is required to make the digester project economically feasible.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

It makes perfect sense. Well, shift a little bit. What would be the typical life cycle of an animal at Black Shirt, you know, from entry to market? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Well, it it it interestingly enough, the majority of the cattle that are going to be fed at Black Shirt are going to come from the calf ranch that we have in New Mexico. And those cattle have come from a dairy farm. So we're very heavily involved in the beef on dairy program. And so just run through that briefly. The the calf is born at the dairy somewhere in the US, and we gather up those day olds uh daily, bring them to a centralized depot, and ship the day olds to Portalis, New Mexico. They're fed there for approximately 150 to 160 days, and then they're going to weigh between 300 and 300 and 350 pounds. We'll move them to our facility at Blackshirt, which has been specifically designed to deal with smaller cattle than feedlots typically deal with in terms of the pen design, the bunk design, and so on. So those cattle will come in there weighing three to three 300 to 350 pounds at roughly 150 to 160 days old. And then they will remain at the feedlot for over a year. And in the process of re-implanting and the various and weighing and the various production events that occur, they all come in one part of the feedlot. And as they move through the production cycle, as the cattle move, they move to the other end of the feedlot and they all exit out, right? So it's a little bit like a chicken model, right? Where they're coming in all at one weight, they're exiting all at one weight, and our production system is designed to physically move those cattle through the feedlot at the appropriate times. So the beef on dairy inventory allows you to manage a feedlot again quite different than you typically would do when you're receiving all different types of cattle and different weights and all that sort of thing. Here we have it pretty standardized as we move them through the system.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

That's such an advantage. And forgive me, I'm probably a little less familiar with the feedlot programs, having spent basically all of my life in dairy at this point. But I liken it to dairy farms. You know, we build calf barns and there's a lot of planning that goes in, but it eventually through reproductive cycles and the cows right, times of poor reprofines of bad, you never get a calf barn built right to handle the swings. And what I think is cool that you guys have been able to do is uh because we are you're able to uh have partnered farms that you source with ahead of time, how many animals you're gonna have almost down to the T. So you've been able to scale that almost in the most ideal environment to make this happen. I think that's a pretty cool feature.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

The the beef on dairy system does allow much more precise inventory and occupancy planning, right? To deal with, you know, 150,000 head yard, right? It's once you get it started and get it established, then you're basically buying and selling the same number of cattle every month into the system, and you don't have dramatic shifts in occupancy associated with the seasonality of calving in the beef cattle sector.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah, I mean, the old model, right? We're gonna go to a livestock market, we're gonna purchase so many truckloads today, we're gonna haul them in, we're gonna work them through. Yeah, I mean, the work that you guys have done to work with source dairies, you know what you have coming for inventory nine months before, well, not quite nine, they got to get pregnant first, confirm pregnant, but really seven months heads up on what inventory is gonna be seven months from now. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

And that's we can predict the number of animals that are going to be born each week that are part of our system, and we can explode that through the calf ranch and through the feedlot and have a very precise idea of what cattle we have in what time frames. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So, what kind of challenges do you foresee coming up in the future for you know the feedlot industry?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Oh, there's one overhanging issue, and that's really the fact that both in Canada and the US, because we operate on both sides of the border, we've had significant reductions in the beef cow herd. Right. I mean, we're at levels we haven't seen since the 1960s. Now, granted, the carcass weights in production has increased to make up part of that gap. But drought and other factors, you know, historical profitability and and but but mainly drought has driven this cycle so that we're seriously reduced cow numbers, which means severe reduced number of feeder cattle, right? So to be able to, and you need to run your feedlots close to full in order to be effective, economically viable, you need to have occupancy in those yards. And so they're just going to be too much feedlot space relative to the number of feeder cattle. And also for the packers, they're going to have too many hooks relative to the number of cattle coming through the system for the next probably three years. If you look at the numbers, it would appear that there hasn't been a significant herd rebuilding occurring either in Canada or the US. It may indeed start this fall, but so far there hasn't been much sign of that. So this is going to be a problem that you can't fix in one year, right? It takes several years for the cowvert to build the calves to get into the system. So that's really, in my mind, the number one challenge that we will face going ahead. You know, you're always going to have your ongoing regular challenges with finding labor and doing all these things, but that just sticks out in my mind as we're going to be the principal challenge.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Do you think there's maybe internal challenges amongst producers to where you know the demand for beef right now is really good, right? In part because and it has been. I mean, you look at like the Day O calf market. We know the the beef herd is low. Does that demand right now drive more sell-off of beef where guys are like, you know, I want to rebuild my herd, but I can't afford to right now. You can't pass up getting that kind of a price for the cattle.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

And that's probably what's prevented as the drought has receded in most parts of North America, not all, but most, you know, why hasn't the rebuilding occurred? Obviously, there's a strong signal on the profitability side. You know, the cow calf operators have done as well in the last three years as they've ever done in history, right? So typically profitability would encourage you to maintain more heifers, but then they're looking at record high feeder cattle prices out the other end. And it's hard to turn that down.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Because you know, you're going to be able to reduce debt and you know, various things like that. So I think a lot of cowcat producers have used this record high price for both feeder cattle and cows to either cash out, right? To say, well, I was thinking of retiring anyways. But what how could we find a better time? And alternatively, some have said, I kind of want to expand, but I just can't turn down this kind of pricing here, right? So I think that the two things kind of build on each other and you know, resulting in the lowest print of cow inventory we've had in in decades. But it's it's easy for me to understand why you've got such a fantastic price. I mean, how do you turn that down? And that is slowing the rebuild process for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

You know, just pulling back from the cow calf operations a little bit, looking at the vond dairy calves. Here in the Northeast, we've seen prices as high as $10, $12 a pound for these animals. And, you know, the the dairy guys love it, Key. I mean, my father milks 80 cows and he sent two calves to auction one day, got twelve hundred and some dollars for two calves. Yes. And and that's almost on the low end as uh of where the peak was. How does that work for you?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

I mean it doesn't it doesn't work as well as it did when they were fifty dollars, I can assure you.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Well, and and maybe not you in particular and your operation, but what the the feedlots that are sitting there without cattle in right now, as you mentioned, I mean, how how prohibitive is that thousand dollar ahead entry fee?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Oh, quite prohibitive if you work your way through it and you work through the cost of production at the calf ranch and then the feedlot, you know, those types of cattle would you'd be putting up break-evens well over $2 as fat cattle. Yeah. So it doesn't look particularly like a particularly good mood or a good move, but you know, that's what markets do, right? They overshoot the mark and they undershoot the mark, right? As you go on. One of the things that the dairy producers have done a bit, though, is because of that really good price for beef on dairy, they probably shorted themselves a little bit on the replacement heifer side, right? And you know, now that milk price is recovering and all this sort of thing, I think there'll be probably for a while a little bit less, fewer cattle bred uh to beef bulls as they catch up on their replacement side. I think you'll see a little bit of that as well, right? Where you know, with milk prices in the dumpster, that's not very exciting. How many heifers do we really need? So I think they went through a phase of producing the very minimal amount of heifers that they could produce and rest B on D. And now they're pending them will have to ship the other way a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

I think that's absolutely, and just to I guess just to prove that out, you mentioned the U.S. well, the North American beef herd being at an all-time low since the 1960s. So is the virgin heifer population in the U.S. I mean, that's at an extreme low. And it may take another couple of years for those two uh segments to find that happy medium, but I'm sure it's gonna probably work out because it yeah, the big swings have to be hard to stomach, and I think for both sides it's probably hard to stomach for sure. You know, Keia, you and I have had conversations in the past about uh how tasty some of these animals are that you're putting out to market. I know when I was at Premier actively involved in the breeding the feeding program up here in the Northeast, I raised some of those beef on dairy calves, the the limb flex on on Holstein, and I've eaten them, my family's eaten them, and I'm sure we didn't probably grow as maybe as you know, I it wasn't great at, but it it was darn good beef. From that perspective, I guess, what are you guys seeing as far as consumer preferences for beef, and how do you respond to that as an organization?

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Well, it's I'm just delighted to report that beef demand has been spectacular, and despite it being at record high prices in retail, you know, beef is still the preferred protein. Yeah, right. And the relative price compared to pork and compared to chicken, I mean, again, it's never been higher, and yet the demand has been very, very robust. And so I think it means that our product that we're producing in North America is very appealing to consumers and probably credit the entire industry with producing more choice carcasses and prime carcasses significantly over time, and that the average eating experience for the consumer overall has obviously got better, right? Because you know, the product is clearing at these amazing prices. You know, just in cowboy math, you go into the supermarket and your steak is five times as much as your pork chop. And yet, you know, the beef is still clearing. So on average, we obviously have a very desirable product. And however, as you mentioned, the beef coming from the beef on dairy cattle is even in some ways better because it really relates to the age at which it's slaughtered combined with the marbling. So, you know, essentially those cattle have been on full feed from day 70 to the end of the feeding period, and they're between 17 and 19 months old when slaughtered, right? So they're very youthful cattle that have a high degree of marbling. So, I mean, it's the recipe for a desirable eating experience, right? And is is one of our aspirational goals to somehow capture when a branded program or some type of a program that recognizes the B on D cattle of having you know very desirable eating experience. And then on the other side of the consumer preference, not related to taste, but related to production, you know, these cattle from the B on D system also have the lowest carbon footprint of high quality grain-fed beef, right? Because they never see any grass. And the cow is attributable to the dairy, right? Because you're picking up the cap as a day old. So roughly the carbon footprint is 50% less than conventional native beef, right? Plus, you have full chain traceability from birth through the calf ranch through the feedlot, right? So it has other attributes yet to be monetized, uh, but are there and have been consumers tell us they want to know where it comes from, right? And they want a lower carbon footprint, right? So you know the B on D can supply uh those and meet those two criteria.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

That's that's remarkable. We do talk about you know nutrition a lot on this platform, but I I think more importantly, everything we try to talk about, we talk about in terms of what we believe at agrarian. And I'll just kind of preface my next question by saying we have an acronym that we use at Agrarian to talk about our core values. And those core values are uh relational integrity, strategic, and excellence. It's rise. And part of those core values is bringing attention to the fact that you know in this quote unquote B2B world, I'm personally on a mission to make that term go away because it's not B2B. I've shared this with other people. You show me a business that does business with another business, I'll show you the incredible men and women behind the scenes that actually make it happen. It's really P2P. It's you know, this industry is small enough in the grand scheme of things that relationships matter. And you mentioned PLAT Health, you grew to that business to over 150 employees. And I don't believe that that could possibly happen without a leadership approach that uh works, it makes people feel a part of the team, it makes people feel empowered. So can you share some of that approach as far as your approach to leadership or decision making with your team, you know, at Black Shirt and Beyond?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

If we start with the decision making part first, I mean that our core principles are we need to be science-based and data driven, right? And not only talk about it, but we make sure that we set up our data collection systems and our analytics to truly reflect what our underlying principles are. So what we do on production is a science, right? Production is, you know, there's lots of opinions about it, but it definitely there's a right way and a wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Right. And in many cases, the only way of figuring that out is by doing large-scale research projects uh very diligently and waiting for the results and then implementing uh what direction the research is trying to go. So, one of the reasons why over 41 years we've managed to grow and continue to evolve is because of our core value of database decision making. You can get pretty distracted in the feedlob business if you let your own views and opinions drive production and never check out the primary assumption to determine whether you're on the right path or not. Right? These systems are sufficiently complex enough in their biology that unless you are very rigorous about how you make production decisions, you may or may not have the correct answer, but you may firmly believe that you do in your mind. Right. So for us, that's just core to running the business is on what basis did you make these decisions? That's one important attribute. And I guess the other, you know, overriding philosophy or principle that we have is that basically we know very little about what direction the markets are going to go. Right. So we don't believe that we have an inherent knowledge there or a better system of figuring it out. Our belief is that markets do what markets do. And nobody in the long-term time frame has been successful in figuring out what's going to happen. Right. So, you know, this whole notion that if you just have the right risk management team, you're going to, by definition, be successful. Right. I I think there's one way of the only risk management mitigation in long the long term that matters is equity. Right? Yeah. Can you withstand the ups and downs in the market? And that's what will you know determine your fate much more than thinking that you're a clever trader. We're not traders by nature, we're production people, and we believe that if we work hard at production and continuously improve, right, continuous improvement over long periods of time is what generates sustainable competitive advantage over people that we're forced to compete with every day. And I guess the other principle that we adhere to in our operations is that having a little fun once in a while isn't illegal, right? So if this thing with the work is so stressful and so punishing, well then maybe you shouldn't be doing it, right? I mean, that's how we look at it. We enjoy what we're doing and we get up every day with enthusiasm to come to work and participate and have a little fun. I mean, this isn't torture or or punishment. I mean, this is run in a feedlot and it should be exciting and a good place to work, and you need to create an environment for your employees, but you'll never be successful in that if the leadership group isn't equally as enthusiastic and as motivated, right? I mean, you go that's great. That's critical, right? Is that the the leadership has to be thrilled with what they're doing, excited about what they're doing, and really trying to move ahead. If they are, then it's very easy for the rest of the team to feel the same way, and you will get results that you never even could believe from people if they're so motivated.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

The importance of inspirational leadership, I think, is probably not talked about enough. And I think sometimes when we think of inspirational leadership, we think of the guy that's standing on the platform and he's delivering the rah-rah speech, right, to fire everybody up. That only works for like the following 30 to 60 days after that speech, right? It's the consistency of showing up day after day with a positive attitude, with a work ethic, with a camaraderie, with chemistry, with caring about people. That's what I think truly motivates people to, you know, when they look at leadership, if you're doing some of those things, that's what's going to make them feel good about coming to work for you and working with you rather than against you, even.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, and I think it's also very critical that the leadership team has boots on the ground experience, right? That they've absolutely that they've done it, they've done the work to get to where they are, right? So that you know, they've chucked pens, they've driven feed trucks, right? They've put up silage, they know all of the steps. And I think that it's way easier to work with someone who understands your job and knows what you're doing, right? So, all in all of our systems and production systems, we've promoted from within, right? And people have had to have been through the process. We've never brought anyone into a leadership side of the equation without having a considerable bit of experience in doing what uh they're going to be managing. I'm not a big believer that you can bring management in that that have without domain expertise and understanding what you're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I think there was a gentleman that told me when I started my first business back in 2005, he said, once you have employees, just remember do never ask them to do something you're not willing to do yourself. And if you're not willing to do it, it means you've probably never done it. So good lesson. You know, lastly, Key, as we wrap up, I would ask you what kind of advice would you give someone that's interested in starting a career in this in this cattle in the speedlot or livestock industry in general?

SPEAKER_02 40:20

I uh my thing would be get as much uh boots on the ground, hands dirty experience as you possibly can as early as you possibly can. Right. That's I mean, to me, that's the critical feature is that you don't have to be, I'm not suggesting you have to be born into it, right? You can decide at any point in your career that you want to go down that pathway, except that you need to understand how it works from the very beginning. And the only way you can really do that is to immerse yourself in the industry and learn everything you possibly can about all aspects of the business and just get involved. Nothing will teach you faster about the economic side is if you don't start to feed capital. And that's what got me interested early on is I actually had a financial investment. Funny how that increases your level of interest, or or they you know, or it just makes you better, uh makes you a lot better real quick at what uh what you're doing. So, you know, you need this is an engagement industry, you need to have full participation and you need to get domain expertise so that you can apply your skills to that, right? Without the fundamental understanding of the business and domain expertise, it doesn't really matter how clever you are, it's pretty hard to apply it unless you understand the fundamentals.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

That's true. There's no substitute, there's no experience like field experience. I mean, there's no substitute, there's no I'm sorry, you you can't teach in a university setting, in a classroom setting or any kind of setting what you learn in the field actually being around the uh the cattle, being around in my case, you know, uh it was dairy cattle, but when you actually are able to experience what the day-to-day uh process looks like and what it takes to get it done, it's so much easier to understand the upper level stuff. Yeah, and the impact, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

So and that's why you know many of the forward-looking organizations have summer programs, internship programs, you know, all of that sort of thing to give students and others a real opportunity to immerse themselves in the day-to-day so they get a good perspective, right? We as employers and we also have to be willing to help people, engage people, teach people, and give them an opportunity, right? We can't just say, well, you have to have all this stuff and not being willing to be part of the process that enables people to enter the industry.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

I think that's a great note to leave this on, and there's not a lot more that I can add to that anyway. But speaking of giving somebody an opportunity, Dr. Jim, I want to thank you. I guess man to man, thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today and share this uh conversation with the rest of the world. And yeah, just again, thanks for your time today. And I think that the audience here and ruminate this, there's a lot here for them to take away.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

So excellent. Always good to visit with you, Scott, and we'll run into you again somewhere down the line.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I'm sure. Thank you, King. Yeah, thank you. If you found value in today's podcast, please hit subscribe and share. And we look forward to talking to you again next week.