45: Mycotoxins on the Rise: Tips to Protect your Livestock

Mycotoxin problems are rising, but do you know where they’re really coming from and how to protect your herd? In Episode 45 of Ruminate This, Caroline Knoblock, Director of Nutrition at Agrarian Solutions, breaks down what dairy producers and nutritionists need to know about Fusarium molds, feed contamination, and practical ways to get ahead of mycotoxin challenges.

Caroline shares insights from a recent research trial on corn silage quality and vomitoxin (DON) levels, highlighting how fungicide applications at V5 and VT stages can impact both mycotoxin contamination and feed digestibility. She explains why many mycotoxin issues are out of your control, why early testing of freshly harvested feeds is critical, and how spreading spoiled feed can actually worsen contamination by inoculating soils.

You'll also hear how healthy soils and smart hybrid selection help plants naturally resist mold infection and why DTX remains the most researched, trusted tool for broad-spectrum mycotoxin protection without binding essential nutrients.

If you're looking for real-world tips to safeguard cow health and improve feed quality, this is a must-listen episode.

🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform.

📈 Download the research Episode 45: 2023 OSU Fungicide Trial Write Up.pdf

📩 Have questions or want to learn how to implement a complimentary mycotoxin sampling program, contact us at podcast@agrsol.com today.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello everyone, welcome to Ruminate List with a growing solutions. Join us as we explore ruminant nutrition and the impact of mycotoxins. Here we challenge your curiosity and explore new industry insights and research to optimize your herd's health and performance. All right, hey, welcome everybody to another episode of Ruminate This with a Grand Solutions. I am your host, Scott Zare, and today I welcome in our director of nutrition, Miss Caroline Knoblock. And we are going to be dissecting some of the results from our recent mycotoxin report. And I have a couple of questions I want to ask Caroline in regards to that report. Caroline, so just give a brief overview, if you would, let everybody know who you are, where you're at in the world, and your role at agrarian. I know this is your second time on our platform, but just remind people of what your role is.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

I'm director of nutrition at Agrarian. So what that means is I'm doing technical support with Dr. Larry Ross. So I focus on the east side of the US. So I'm up in the Northeast and Pennsylvania a lot, down through the Carolinas, which incidentally is also where we're seeing a lot of the changes in mycotoxin exposure over the last two growing seasons. So it's been fun to get into. And yeah, I'm supporting salespeople like yourself as well as our customers.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Nice tie-in. I'm telling you what, you could be an old podcast pro at this. I mean, making a callback. I like it to a previous episode tying in. So yeah, a few things, Caroline, stood out to me about the mycotoxin report. One, they haven't gone away. Two, I feel like, especially across the northeast, you get down into PA, and even in some of the Great Lakes states, we're maybe seeing a little less Dawn in years past. Is that are you seeing the same thing as I am on that?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Well, I think we're probably seeing similar amounts of Dawn. It's just the other mycotoxins are kind of increasing. So it's kind of overshadowing the Dawn nowadays. But I think Dawn's just been similar in these growing seasons. And I mean, part of that when you get into what is really happening with the molds and the mycotoxins, is Dawn is just made as a part of the mold growing. So part of just the normal metabolism of these molds is they make Dawn. It's just a byproduct of them growing and expanding in the plant. So we're gonna see it. If the mold is there, you're probably almost always gonna see Don. And that's why we also call it that marker of that mycotoxin marker, because it's just the molds make it, no matter what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

So then to play devil's advocate, why do we sometimes see assays come through dairyland labs that do not have any Don detected on the sample? But we find Xerolinone and Femonosin.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I have the same question. So I asked people that are much smarter than myself getting into these molds and some really good agronomists with different states extensions. So one thing that they think is happening. So, like I said, when the mold grows, it makes done. When the mold is stressed, when it fears for its own life, that's when it starts making the xeralinone and the fumonacins. So there definitely are instances where you have a mold, but it's not growing super well, it's just not the right growing conditions for it. So it's not getting bigger, it's not inoculating more of the plant, so it's not making much don because it's kind of staying static. But then that mold gets stressed. So it's making the xeralinone or it's making the fumonosin. So you can have instances where you don't see tons of Don, but that mold was there in small amounts, but it got freaked out, it got stressed, it started to worry about its own survival. So it made those two mycotoxins to kind of harm what's trying to harm it. Is it their defense mechanism? Mycotoxins.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, yeah. No, that that makes total sense. Yeah, that makes total sense.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Not as common, but it does happen. So it's it's normal.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, and you know, those are some of the questions that we get from nutritionists, right? So I'm glad you're able to answer that for us. You know, you've you've referenced Zerolinone and you've referenced Romanison. So let's let's go that direction for a minute. Zerolinone. So, you know, you've probably answered this question a little bit in your last response, but I want to ask it this way. I mean, for myself, looking at assays for the last four or five years up here in the Northeast, I I consistently see Zoroanone. We always do. I think we have the right weather for it. But I'm telling you what, maybe I have a bad memory, but I'm I I feel like I'm used to seeing somewhere between 150 parts per billion and maybe two, three hundred with a high sample being 500. And over the last, I'm gonna say eight to ten months, we're seeing some 1,000 part per billion xeralinone. I've seen high-end samples at 4,000 parts per billion. Why do we think that is? Is it strictly weather related? Is that our theory?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Well, so that fusarium mold that's making these mycotoxins, that's growing super well in this weather. So we're seeing those growing conditions consistently. We're seeing that mold just being in our soils, getting on our plants year after year. So that's why we have this consistent don exposure. It's why you have this consistent, we consistently see the xeralinone. But yeah, like you had said, I've we've noticed those trends that the xeralanone's going up and up the last couple of years. And that's just when that mold's getting stressed. So either it's going to be improper fungicide application, because if you apply fungicide at the wrong points for if you're applying it at different points than what your agronomist is recommending, you're probably you could potentially be stressing out that fusarium mold. It's say, holy crap, it's not enough to kill me, but it's enough for me to try to defend myself. So it's making seralinone. That's why agronomists are super specific about when to apply fungicides. Because there are certain times in that just growth period of the plant when the plant can defend itself from the mold, and then that fungicide just really helps it and get rid of that mold. But then you have those other times where it's just not optimal. So that's why working with agronomists who are knowledgeable about molds and mycotoxins and following their advice is really important because the molds are there. Our plants are getting inoculated with these molds, and then and it's not just fungicides that stress them out and cause your alinone. There's just certain growing conditions that the mold doesn't really like as much, or there's other pressures just in that plant's immune system that cause this to happen. So it's not super well defined, but it's we know that there are some things that might influence it.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, Caroline, you mentioned the fungicide applications. And I know we've we've done some work with Ohio State, working with them on the assays of their fungicide research. They've put out some information and remind the audience, or I guess let the audience know, like based on the work done there at Ohio State, when is the right time to apply that fungicide?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

What they found over the last few years, somewhat consistently, is that when the proper fungicides are applied at full silking, that's when you get the best results for reduced mycotoxins in your final feed. They've put out some really nice data when they applied fungicide to cohort fields at different stages of that plant's life. And that's just when you get the most consistent reduction. People don't really know why exactly, but part of it is just that fusarium mold gets into the ears and it loves being in the ears and growing there. So that's probably has a lot to do with it. The fungicide just stopping that mold from getting in.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah. And just so you know, folks, we will make that Ohio State data available to you in the show notes here of today's episode. You also mentioned full silking. Correct me if I'm wrong, folks. I'm no agronomist. My experience of growing corn was when I was on our dairy, our family dairy, and I would diss the fields, and then I would fill the fertilizer hoppers for my dad who planted, and then I would run the chopper. I didn't really spend a lot of time in cornfields, even though we grew corn. Full silking to me doesn't sound like a very big window if I'm trying to cover thousands of acres.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah, it's a very small window, and that's why you can see why it's so most people see inconsistent results from fungicide application. It's that silking window to get it in in time before that mold gets in, very short. So if you're doing a small number of fields, you might be able to target those molds. Or if you have a lot of fields you're doing and you know you have fields that consistently are very high in those Don or Zeralinone, maybe those fields you make sure you're really tight in that window and targeting those fields where you know it's really bad. So, and that's something again work on with an agronomist because they they know what they're doing with this, they see it every year, and they'll be able to make sure it's applied at the right time and really help target those high-risk fields.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

That's a great point. You know, if I'm trying to cover a thousand or more acres, right? Find the fields that are maybe a problem child consistently, which if you're not sampling your corn coming out of the field, contact your agrarian rep, myself, email us podcast at agrsol.com, and we will help you get your assays taken this year during fall harvest.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah, it's very important to know what's going in in the bunk just so we can prepare so that we are ready when it comes out.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Absolutely. And Dr. R talks about the bunk. Yeah, no, calm down. So I'm glad you brought that up, Caroline, because I was on a dairy last week. And you know what? I'm gonna give the hot take right here on Ruminate this. I that dairyman asked me if I was there to sell an inoculant. I said, no, we're not in the inoculant space. I explained to him, you know, our DTX technology. And he said, so this is a feed additive, not an inoculant. Correct. Feed additive goes in the cow. He goes, okay. Because the last three salesmen that were here are selling inoculant and letting me know that they're gonna be able to reduce mycotoxins with their inoculants.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

So um I think it can be kind of a semantics issue.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

I understand it could be semantics, but you know what, folks, consider a PSA from me. If you have somebody coming at your doorstep selling you something to put on your bunk because it's gonna reduce the field-borne mycotoxins, kick them out of the driveway. Because Caroline's exactly right. What we harvest from the field and put in our storage pile, bunk, egg bag, upright, doesn't matter, it's not gonna go down, and it has the potential to go up. Yep. And I think Carolyn, you you mentioned semantics, and you know, was this inoculate salesman talking to this farmer trying to be cute? Was he trying to be, you know, push the line? I have no idea. If we do a great job of fermentation and we're getting oxygen out, right? We're able to reduce the risk of increasing. Am I saying that right?

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yes, yeah. It's really so the mycotoxins that go in aren't going to go down because the mycotoxins are extremely stable molecules. Heat doesn't kill, heat doesn't destroy them. The really only things that destroy mycotoxins are rumined bacteria do a tiny little bit before mycotoxins kill them. So they're there. What's really important is just the normal good feed recommendations. It's reduce pack, pack, pack to get the oxygen out. You want that pH to go down quickly because just preventing that mold from growing more and making more mycotoxins. So it's mycotoxins can go up quite easily, especially in those that first 30 days after after putting it into the bunk.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

But it's not gonna go down.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

No, no, it's not gonna go down.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Um, it doesn't matter if you're putting bucner eye or if you're putting a good lactic acid producing inoculant on, folks, it's not gonna go down.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yeah, and there is a misnomer that if you roast your corn, your dry corn, that your mycotoxins went down after, it's not, it's just that you blew off the chaff, the little the chaff where mycotoxins tend to collect. So if you have I've seen people who have really a lot of mycotoxins in their corn, in their dry corn, they'll roast it because then you get that blowing and it will go down slightly. It's because you're getting the chaff off. It's not a bad idea if you have to use that corn for your animals. But yeah, we're not getting rid of, we're not killing the mycotoxins, we're just taking out that bit of the feed that is really high in it.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

That's a great point. That's a great point. Well, Caroline, we went down that little proverbial rabbit hole, but I think it's a good thing we did. You know, that that's a real life scenario that I just bumped into literally a week ago, yesterday, actually. But I want to talk too about femonic. Now, Larry gave us the spring mycotoxin report a couple of weeks ago on ruminate this, and you know, I guess my question is where is all this fumonicin coming from? Like, why all of a sudden? But mycotoxin that yeah, it's considered one of the big five. Man, if you look up some of the things that fumonicin can do, it it doesn't look pretty. But we really don't like it was almost like an afterthought on an assay for for me at least, for the area that I cover and see assays from for really the last number of years. And then all of a sudden, gosh, if you're if you're in North Carolina, if you're in Virginia, Maryland, Southern PA, we're seeing Femonicson pop up in New York, but not at the levels, not at the levels we're seeing in those other states I mentioned. Where where do we think that's coming from?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Well, bad thing is we don't really know. So it's from that fusarian mold. So it's that's why we also tend to see Don and Zeralinone in the same samples. But yeah, we don't understand why there's just so much more of the fumonicin mycotoxin than the others, and then than and more than past years. But yeah, those states, the Carolinas up through southern PA, you're it's that there's that band in those Atlantic states that just have extremely high fumonicins in the feed, and it's corn silage and dry corn. It's not either or. So we don't really understand why, but those growing conditions last fall is just really ramped it up. Do you think it had something to do with the hurricane that came up through and and really there's potentially so any kind of physical damage to the plant just creates a vector for that mold to get into the plant. And the more damage, the more spots for the mold to get in, it's harder for the plant to fight off that mold. Because if you have super healthy plants that uh have minimal insect damage, wind damage, bird damage, you're gonna have minimal mold, mold infiltration, and low mycotoxins. But just that potential wind damage from the hurricane winds. And honestly, molds mold spores go through air too. So there's potential that that wind just helped push them up through that band. We're not sure because it's not typical for us to test mold spores in the wind around these times. So that's kind of speculation, but it's it is potentially related to that damage, just to those plants. And even if the plant was still able to grow and to make a good crop, it still experienced that period where it was fighting off a lot of things. It's trying to recoup after that, and then it has to fight off these molds.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's almost like anything in agriculture, right? If it's not one thing, it's another. And I I shouldn't even laugh at that, but it's just really interesting how we've seen this rise in femonicin, which like seemingly came out of left field. Yeah, really interesting. The other thing I would like to get your take on is as Larry pointed out, we have a vast majority of samples with multiple mycotoxins. So bring us back to the cow for a minute, Caroline. These assays that we're seeing come through, and it's not by the fives or the tens, it's by the hundreds of they have two, three, four different mycotoxins in them. How do we even approach controlling a mycotoxin sample that's got four different mycotoxins in the corn silage or in the TMR?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Well, we need to be prepared going in. So that's why green shop helps taking those green shop samples. So we kind of have an understanding of what's there. And then part of it too is I mean, this is why we make DTX to have broad spectrum protection, is because we know this, these molds make many different mycotoxins. Um, so the way we grow our bacteria that we use in DTX, they're grown on a mixture of all of these major mycotoxins. So it does have the ability to provide protection from these. But a lot of it is just working with us, with the nutritionists, with the farm, to kind of pay attention to how's the cow responding to the feed? How is she responding to this dose of DTX? Do we need to adjust it up or down? And we're looking at repro, but that's a longer term thing to kind of look at and it's a back look. We can kind of also look at cell count. And a lot of these, especially in those mid-Altantic states with the fumatic, they're people are having some success using bulk tank cellatic cell count as kind of their barometer of are we controlling this well enough? There's some farms where single dose of DTX is actually working pretty well because otherwise those cows are very well managed, low stress on those cows. But if you have instances of just something else going on in the feed, digestibility issues, or you have some overcrowding for a period of time, then those cows kind of aren't as able to handle that mycotoxin load as well. So we might have to adjust our rate up a little bit, one and a half dose, or just depending on what's there. So just balancing testing our TMRs and then paying attention to kind of what the cows are telling us is what's helping us control this. But yeah, it's it's never easy. And DTX is definitely doing its job because it has that broad spectrum protection. But it's yeah, it's taken fine-tuning in the really high areas. But it's we're also learning a lot, and we're really learning how to consult well with our customers.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

So I guess a follow-up question on the multiple mycotoxin thing. So let's say I get an assay back, and you know, we're maybe less than a ppm of Don. We're maybe in that 100 PPB xerolinone range, and we're picking up what's considered low-risk T2 and low-risk femonicin. Do we treat that like if a dairyman or a nutritionist looked at that assay and everything's in the quote unquote low risk? Should that sample be treated like a true low-risk sample? If maybe I only found one mycotoxin at low risk? Is there a difference between finding one low-risk mycotoxin versus four low-risk mycotoxins?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yes, for sure. We should definitely take it more as that aggregate amount of mycotoxin. So that's those diets where they're all kind of falling in that medium to low risk. That's probably a diet that's getting into the high risk territory as the total TMR because each singular mycotoxin is okay. But that TMR is getting into the high risk. And we have to remember too, with these mycotoxins, they all have different mode of actions in the cow. They all do something different to cause inflammation, cause reproductive issues, cause immune stress, and and hurt digestion. So she's trying to fight a lot of different things with this. And so, yeah, those diets definitely give her a lot of extra things to take care of. And adding, yeah, using DTX to support just broadly really helps her out, prepares her to fight those mycotoxins.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Like the way you worded that too, because it it like we all we all know this, right? That that cow is is fighting a battle on many fronts, right? And maybe it's environmentally, maybe it's overcrowding, or you know, we don't have great care on our stalls, or you know, maybe it's she's fighting a lameness battle or digital dermatitis, or you know, just pick anything, right? And then all of a sudden we introduce four different mycotoxins. That's actually four different battles because they each attack that cow in a different way. That's a great point, Caroline. Thanks for bringing that to light. Caroline, you know, I I really appreciate you coming on here today and just bringing some of these insights of where these specific mycotoxins come from, because it to me it really it was really odd to see the rise in Fumonis and the Risons are all unknown. And I think you've done a great job today of maybe bringing some of that stuff to light as the why behind it. Any final thoughts or insights you want to leave with our audience today?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

I think the biggest thing that I want to leave with just some ways we can kind of prevent these molds and mycotoxins is a healthy plant in healthy soil is just naturally able to prevent these mycotoxin-causing molds from growing. So, whatever we can do to just have that strong, healthy plant. So, with proper hybrid selection for your growing area, good proper tillage practices, that plant will then be able to defend itself against those mycotoxin-causing molds. And if we have less fusarium, we tend to have less mycotoxins. One other really big prevention matter is not spreading spoiled and visibly moldy feeds on fields. Because you are re-inoculating your soil with those mycotoxin-causing molds. So I understand that it's hard to know what do I do with this feed. Composting is the best way, but really stop putting it on your fields. Do something with it other than that, and don't feed it to your heifers or other animals either. It's it's full of mold, it's full of mycotoxin. You visibly see the mold. Those molds that are growing are making more mycotoxins. So it's good to take it off your pile, try to compost it, dispose it in another manner, and not spread it.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

I I think that is probably the most valuable PSA we could have given the audience today, Caroline. I commend you for it. And uh I I agree, Caroline. I would implore our listeners to think of something else to do with that feed. And you know, I'm I'm kind of reminded whatever you put into that animal is what you're gonna get out. And that's my PC way of not using vulgar language on our podcast. So thank you for bringing that up, Caroline. That was great. Yeah, Caroline, you know, I I do enjoy having you on Ruminate This. So anytime you want to jump back in with us and spar with me a little bit, you're always welcome.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

All right, have a great day, Caroline, and we'll be talking to everybody again in two weeks. Thank you for listening to Ruminate This with Agrarian Solutions. Look for our next episode in two weeks.