ArtStorming
Ever wonder what makes really creative people tick? Where do their ideas come from? What keeps them energized? What kinds of things get in their way? In each episode of ArtStorming, we’ll explore how new ideas come to life, and how the most creative among us stare down a blank canvas or reach into the void and create something new.
Host Lili Pierrepont takes us on a journey of discovery; inviting us to ponder what drives and sustains the creative spark within each individual.
With great appreciation for music written and performed by John Cruickshank.
ArtStorming
ArtStorming the City Different: Bobby Beals
Bobby Beals, a sixth-generation Santa Fean, shares his journey as a painter, gallery owner, and skateboard entrepreneur who bridges traditional fine art with skateboarding culture to create inclusive creative communities.
Music for ArtStorming the City Different was written and performed by John Cruikshank.
Ever wonder what makes really creative people tick? Where do their ideas come from? What keeps them energized? What kinds of things get in their way? Is their life really as much fun as it looks from the outside?
Speaker 1:Hello, I'm your host, lili Pierpont, and this is ArtStorming, a podcast about how new ideas come to life and become paintings, sculptures, plays or poems, performances or collections. Each episode I'll chat with a guest from the arts community and explore how the most creative among us stare down a blank canvas or reach into the void and create something new. Today, I'll be art-storming with painter, gallerist, skater and multi-generational Santa Fean Bobby Beals. I've spoken to Bobby a couple times at openings at his gallery and, like many hosts, he was always warmly cordial and also busy with all of his other guests, so the conversations were rarely more than fleeting. So this conversation that we just had was a real treat. You know, when you know someone has substance even though you don't even really know them. That's how Bobby has always struck me, and I know he's really well admired in the community. But it wasn't till this little chat that I got to see the depths of that substance. I can honestly say now that I love this man. I can honestly say now that I love this man, A thoroughly generous, lovely human and a great role model for our community.
Speaker 1:Meet Bobby Beals. So I'm with Bobby Beals and we're at the historic Bishop's Lodge and right before I hit play, bobby was telling me about his connection to this place. So will you repeat that again? Because I think it's so interesting, because we're only about, I don't know, maybe a mile from where I live, but just the approach here is so beautiful and Baldy had snow on it and you know it's just such a special, special place. So what's your relationship to it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love this time of year because the snow is melting, the rivers are flowing and it's really nice and my family's from here. I am a sixth generation Santa Fean and we were talking about my great aunt, who is Nino Otero Warren and Aloysia Luna Bajer. Nino Otero has a school named after her here in Santa Fe called Nino Otero. It's a public school and she was just initiated into a quarter by the US Mint last year. So she's on a quarter, which is really exciting. The US Mint came here, we went to the History Museum and had a great little presentation. One of my cousins, consi Consuelo. She really jumped on on this opportunity when they reached out and kind of pushed forward this powerful woman in our family. So it's really exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, Santa Fe. For people who don't know it, one of the things that's kind of well known for is supporting very powerful women. You know, women have quite a history here and I know there's even a project involved here just illuminating all the women who have been power players here. But how cool that you're a descendant of one of those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really excited about it of one of those. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. And we still have a little property that's in a trust, that is little Adobe casitas, where they homesteaded. But you're right, yeah, a lot of women, you know either, have come out to the Wild West, the Southwest, and empowered themselves, you know, like Georgia O'Keeffe and Agnes Martin and Agnes Pelton there's just so many to name. But it's really nice that Nina Otero Warren is part of that, you know, beautiful community of women. She was a superintendent as well, so she did a lot for children here in the school system. She fought for women's suffrage as well. So I can't even imagine being around that time in the 20s and 30s doing that as much less now, even.
Speaker 1:That we're still doing it, that we're still yeah exactly Pretty wild. And women in New Mexico were allowed to own property too, which is another thing that I find fascinating. You know one of the few states that allow women to own property.
Speaker 2:Isn't that interesting. I know that nationally in the late 70s women could get a credit card.
Speaker 1:Finally, Without their husband's permission, without their husband's permission exactly, or sign off. Oh, that's so crazy. Well, I mean, that's a sort of a wild way to start, but we're here on this sort of very sacred land of Bishop's Lodge and because of your family history, we couldn't not go there, since this is all about the city different. So did you grow up here and go to school here and all that, or did you leave and come back?
Speaker 2:I grew up here. My grandparents are a big part of raising me here in this town, and so it's interesting because Bishop's Lodge here we're on Tezucco Pueblo, one of the 19 pueblos in New Mexico, and I used to come here as a kid and ride horses. Bishop's Lodge was a resort that people would. You know. There was a ranch here, there would be campfire songs, there would be stays here. I looked up in 1949, I found a little pamphlet from Bishop's Lodge that was for one single room. It was $12 a night. So that was kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:It was only $1,200 a night right.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly yeah. They do have a great local rate, which is kind of interesting. But yeah, so I used to come and ride horses here and kind of have a little history here. It's really nice.
Speaker 1:So when did you decide? Because you were over on Canyon Road for a while, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And actually your name has been floating around in my skull for a while, because Summers Randolph, when I interviewed well, actually a long time ago, he kept saying you've got to meet Bobby Beals. You've got to meet Bobby Beals and I thought I'll get to it eventually, but you were on Canyon Road and somehow I was just never on Canyon Road, so I never dropped in to say hello. And then when I heard that you'd moved up here and started doing these events, I thought okay, now's my chance.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I feel the same about you as well, because you would interview summers and you interviewed Michael Burke and some some of my friends that I'm like who is this person like doing such cool interviews? And so I really appreciate being here. But yeah, I was on Canyon road, did that since 2001 to 2020, january 1st 2020. So I was on Canyon Road and really explored representing young, new contemporary artists and it just kind of took off. It was really interesting to have that experience and I've worked with a lot of artists on the way that really helped me build my career. Um, you know, couldn't have done that without them.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so. So who else have I interviewed?
Speaker 2:that you well, sienna luna is one of your. Alexandra.
Speaker 1:Alexandra eldridge yeah so I mean you, you're like halfway there.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, yeah, I'm happy to be part of this club. Oh, it's really cool.
Speaker 1:So why did you decide to leave Canyon Road? I would think that that would be sort of such a destination, although I understand your history with this place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, with respect to everybody on Canyon Road, I never really felt fully accepted there. You know, I opened the gallery at a young age and it just there was only a few people that really kind of were cheering for me as a neighbor or fellow colleague, fellow colleague, and so it was very much a hard road, I think, to develop an art career on Canyon Road. I would paint out here, actually here in the Rancho Encantado, and that's how I got linked up with Aubert, who runs Bishop's Lodge about 15 years ago. So that's what brought me here. But I was kind of, um, you know, it was a career, it was raising a family, um, you know, and so it was a lot of work, um, and canyon road just felt like, um, I'm from here, um, I didn't really feel accepted on the road.
Speaker 2:It was really interesting for a while, except by clients. Um, you know, I I was doing, I was very successful as far as, like, people come visiting, you know, locals buying art, supporting the artists. I would have mariachis at every show and different bands and DJs and really kind of bring this energy there. And so when it came to a time when I was going to Art Dubai, hamptons, art Basel. I was traveling around a lot and I was doing very well in these different markets outside of Santa Fe. I kind of felt like Santa Fe was my home base and you know I would do my best to to honor the artists that I represent and I still represent the artists I represented 20 years ago. So I basically made a decision to eventually leave Canyon Road. I actually gave my landlords like a year and a half notice that I'm planning to do that and they're very great and gracious to assist me in that transition.
Speaker 1:And this came available and you just pounced on it. Is that how?
Speaker 2:January 1st 2020,. I was out of the art business, I left Canyon Road. I was like what am I going to do with my life? And the pandemic happened a few months later. I mean, it was happening then, but in New Mexico on March 15th.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's, that's when it kind of happened. Um, so I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? And then the uh auberge one of the auberge CEOs reached out to me and said you have to meet the, the GM, and the experience manager at Bishop's Lodge and just talk to them. And so my son and I uh, who's 10 at the time we came here and we had chips and salsa upstairs at skyfire restaurant with angelica, who's a gm at the time, and megan godin, who's an experienced designer. And we just talked about this concept of a gallery on property where we're talking right now, inside the horseshoe gallery. That might have been a fitness center or a boardroom.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of different things, and so I immediately realized that it was going to be up to me to make this place a gallery, and I felt like I was talking on behalf of all artists, all art in general, to bring art to this place, and the team at O'Barridge is very much interested in that. They really took a leap. You know, art's not really pushed forward a lot as you know, in the community it's other things first but they took a leap of faith in me, uh, to create this gallery concept. So I designed a logo, I designed the name the horseshoe gallery. Uh, I've worked with megan godin. I actually designed the font for it and the concept and I said this is the kind of art that I think you guys should you show in your gallery. So I was just getting paid for that and then when I presented it, they're like why don't you do it? So I thought it was a great idea, because I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do in my next step in my life.
Speaker 1:Isn't it just so cool how life just sometimes throws things just right. Duh, there you are, boom done. Yeah, that's amazing it was amazing and you're an artist yourself. So how? How did you make the transition from? Are you still a practicing artist? And and how do you make the decision between representing yourself, as some galleries do their vanity galleries, I guess they're called or representing these other artists, or do you do a combination of both?
Speaker 2:or I started off, um. So the first, my first gallery as an artist, um creating painting, um showing my work, and that's what really paid. I kind of like fibbed about um having six months of rent saved up to the landlord and you know, um, and I just painted in front of the gallery till I sold. You know, I just painted and painted until I sold art and made enough money to do that. But people would say, can you paint a horse? And I cannot paint a horse to this day To save my life. I can ride them, and you know, but I can't. It's just difficult for me. So I get a horse artist. Do you sell any bronze? I get a bronze artist, you know.
Speaker 2:So this kind of like developed where I started to be an artist but also curate art and the artists I was selecting, or I should say the art that the artists that were selecting me to represent them, which is a very important, valuable choice. It just kind of took off and so I was instantly an art dealer and curating, and just I had so much energy to do that. So my art took a back seat a little bit during that time, although I was painting on plein air, just little studies all the time to keep focus. So, yeah, it just kind of took a backseat until about 2008 when we had our like a little economy crash, if you remember, and I had a little time, and so it's just a time thing. And so, when you know, I started to paint more and do commissions for hospitals and interior designers, but it was a little bit outside of the gallery, as you can imagine.
Speaker 2:I have, you know, my first gallery had about 15 artists and when someone come in and they did your painting for this, it would be like, well, you can take my painting or this other artist. So there's a little bit of a conflict of interest, even though I think the artists would have supported me fully to showcase my own work. So there was a little bit of that going on in my value system, that I kind of took a back seat and then I would do commissions outside of the gallery, and so that's kind of this was before you had a family, so you actually had a little bit of you know know, a little tiny bit of extra time to do that um, it was pretty much the same time I got I started the gallery was I had my family and you know, started having kids and, um, yeah, I've talked to one other dad, um alberto um zama, and you know so I mean you guys.
Speaker 1:It's like a different story because it's a very different demand on your time trying to juggle a career, an art career and a gallery career and, in his case, a music career. I don't know if you might have that in your pocket too.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge fan of him and his work and his family and him as a dad. We see each other sometimes at the dad events or, you know, scooting around these kids and you know, whenever I see that, it just warms my heart and I'm just like, wow, you're doing it, you know, and he also supports other artists as well, so did you interview him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's awesome. I can't remember what episode. Oh, he was episode 16. And I know that because he was the last episode I did before. I had an exhibition for the first 16 artists, and so I interviewed him about this time last year and and you know I can't remember what oh, he brought over a piece to the gallery.
Speaker 2:But you guys have the skateboard art thing in common too, right, I mean, doesn't he do skateboard art? Yeah, in fact, he's done a skateboard for my company. So I'm celebrating 10 years of owning a skateboard company. Um, and it's just been really exciting, um the. When I was um at Canyon road, I started to feel even my own friends were like, can I go to your gallery opening? And I'm like, of course you know, like please, but it was just this disparity between you know where we grew up and where I was and this, this kind of like you know, concept of, oh, you're doing this gallery thing, you know, type of type of thing.
Speaker 1:So did they feel like, because they weren't buying, they weren't consumers, that they weren't welcome? Was that sort of the understanding that they had? I mean, yes, it wouldn't be the only ones, right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:definitely. Um, you know, I broke that, that concept or that idea by immediately, you know, by welcoming everybody. But, um, you know, we would have these big parties at the gallery and people would be overflowing on the street. And it just reminded me of when I was a kid going to my uncle's on Aseke Amadre right there, and he had Frito Pies and you would just show up and you didn't really know everybody. But you know, you have all these cousins and stuff like that. So I kind of became, you know, a lot of Canyon Road, like where are these people coming from?
Speaker 1:And it was really nice to have that and yeah, I sort of I'm so glad I'm sorry I missed experiencing that, because one of the things that I've thought was maybe a missed opportunity is there wasn't that like community center, and I guess you know it's hard to have a center when Canyon Road is so long. But I used to come here at Christmas time. My mother lived here in the late 80s and early 90s and you know the. You know Christmas Eve, the walk on Canyon Road, I mean it was sort of like that. I mean you know, just sort of you stopped every so often and there were bonfires and Sienna and I talked about that too. That was a really great memory that I have.
Speaker 1:But one of the things I love about coming to your gallery openings is that they do feel like that. You always know that you can show up and something. There's just something really community-based about an opening here that's distinct from and I go to a lot of gallery openings and usually I'm there to support friends. But there's something about what you've figured out here and it's all starting to make sense to me because it's like what you brought to it I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and everyone's welcome every show. Um, we're having a skateboard show coming up soon, um, where we gave 20 blank skateboards to artists and it's called unpolished, so the artists are just creating, they're not quite finishing their work, so and in that we're teaching like letting go and we're also presenting that it is good enough type of thing. And so we went to the youth shelter, got some skateboards for them and invited them to come. So just a lot of like integrated community. We've worked with the national alliance of mental illness, esperanza shelter, a lot of um based santa febased organizations here through the skateboard company and one of my, you know I look up to Damon Archuleta who owns Initiate Skateboards. He's just always helping the community and he does it just very low-key. You know it's really interesting, but I really look up to him and when I started the skateboard company he welcomed me into the skate community. The skate community is amazing. They're artists and musicians and skateboarding something where you really, if you, if you fall, you get back up, type of thing.
Speaker 2:And not to be real cheesy, but it was something in my life, uh, 10 years ago, when I started the company, um, I decided I wanted to skateboard, learn to skateboard at age 39 and, uh, I never skated before and so it looked kind of fun and I could visualize it in my head. I got my skateboard, I went to the skate park, to to Barbie skate park, and I dropped in, you know, and I broke my ribs and so it was interesting. So I still wanted to learn to skate and so I brought my paints and I would just watch them and I would paint their skateboards. They would ask me to do certain pieces and I would paint you know, Is this while you're recovering from your rib broken rib injury or?
Speaker 2:while I was recovering. Yeah, cause if you've ever broken a rib, um, sneezing hurts, you know. So I still wanted to be immersed into that community and so, yeah, while I was recovering, I started to paint on the decks and then, um, a friend of mine wanted to get going and release a board, and so he helped me do that, and then we just released boards and released boards and kept going. There's a social good company. After a couple of years and it was me after a couple of years and I donated 100% of the profits to these different organizations. Every time I asked a skater or an artist, they would say no problem, yes, happening after a couple of years. And I donated 100% of the profits to these different organizations. Every time I asked a skater or an artist, they would say no problem, yes, happening. So it was really interesting to do it that way and we've done shows in Phoenix and Los Angeles and Denver, vail, beaver Creek, dallas, houston. It's just been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:And what a creative way to sort of give people access to the world of art, which you know, when it's a high street thing, can be. I mean, one of the reasons I got into this is I, in my previous iteration, I was an interior designer and I was doing some work and had an opportunity to buy some artwork. And I went to New York with a pretty heavy wallet and the attitude that I got in these New York galleries and here I was. I had studied art history in school, I had a huge wallet, I was, you know, a serious buyer and I was being given such attitude for even walking in the gallery and I thought, uh, there has to be a bridge built. I mean, you know that art is not this.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the whole thing just felt wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. So I started being very interested in, like, the different avenues into the arts so that to burn that intimidation factor of going into the galleries or museums or what hushed voices in museums and all that stuff there was this great program in new york at the time called um met hack, and it was a bunch of unemployed actors who were doing tours of the Met that were partially historically accurate.
Speaker 1:But the whole idea is they were really great at gathering people up and taking them on an adventure through the Met, and there would be themes like badass bitches of the Met or whatever. And then you get in front of these sculptures and we'd all have to pose like the sculpture. You know crazy stuff like that, but it really was so much fun and I realized that you could inject so much more vitality into the arts if we just went about it in some slightly different ways. So, yeah, I mean, I just think that what you're doing is so important and it makes people, it brings art back to its origins, which is a self-expression of community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the point I think, um, you know I started to, I was in film and video before and um 2000,. I went to lunch with some artists and they just kept talking about the colors and the salsa and I'm like get over it, you know, like in my head, but the more they're talking about it, the more I was seeing what they're expressing and the way they talked about it and it just really kind of opened my eyes to that kind of expression. And, you know, I think there's a way to nourish the galleries that are high end, scalable galleries and museums and merge it with these. You know other artists that are emerging artists or young artists, street artists, and so skateboards really do that very well.
Speaker 2:I remember, you know, while I'm releasing skateboards, I saw some release at the Tate. The Tate Modern released some Basquiat skateboards and I'm like, okay, this is something that's happening. And it really made me smile because, you know, everybody can collect a skateboard, right, it's something that is nostalgic as well Just looking collect a skateboard, right it's. It's something that, um, is nostalgic as well. Just looking at a skateboard reminds you of some time in your life that you're around that kind of scene, whether it's the punk rock or hip-hop or whatever.
Speaker 1:It just kind of reminds you of that scene or that freedom or that way to express yourself, and so yeah, I love that combination of the resilience that you're talking about, that you know you fall down, you get back up and self-expression, those two being merged. And so I think it's really cool to how have you noticed that maybe people coming into skateboard skating I guess you call it skating, right, um, skating who don't have a decorative board do they sort of see the other decorated boards and think, hey, and then it becomes like apparel, like when does it become cross the threshold into like identity?
Speaker 2:I think immediately when you choose your skateboard. It's like a samurai choosing their sword.
Speaker 2:You know, so it doesn't have to be like art on there at all, it's the wood grain itself. You know the seven ply maple that's pressed together. It's just beautiful. The way escape is to me, and I think other artists too if you ever see like um, like I said, I was um putting what they call complete um, so that's trucks, wheels, bearings, rip tape, everything putting it all together with some youth here in town and it's their first skateboard. So I didn't give them the deck, I let them choose which one they want.
Speaker 2:And you know this, one kid was like I want that one, like so mean um. The other uh girl was like oh, I want that one, and it's not what you think they would choose sometimes, and so just to watch that it, it's. It's kind of like their first collecting of art in a sense, even when they're skating on it for a long time it's scraped up. You know those, those kids usually hang that board scraped up, you know, on there and and um, I don't know a lot of skaters that I know. I didn't grow up skateboarding, um, I grew up on horses, you know. But, um, a lot of skaters, they still have their first board and so it's really special, I think, and unique. So you learn these styles from, from, uh, what their, what your style is. I think that develops over time and the next skateboard you want might be totally different. It just depends, you know.
Speaker 1:How has the sensation of skating informed your artwork, or have you noticed that it changed the way you paint?
Speaker 2:It's such a great question Flow. Sometimes, if you skate too slow, you're going to fall, you're just going. The wheels are going too slow, you're going to hit a rock, you're going to hit a thing, a line that you normally roll over. What's that? That would be me. Yeah Well, we can teach you. We can teach you how to skate, no problem, but I think it's flow is very important.
Speaker 2:If you're going too fast, you're kind of feeling a little reckless, you know, and so or I should say, not reckless, but yeah, I think it's flow. When I'm painting, I enter this flow and it's letting go, but really trying to holistically embody everything I've learned, but also letting it go and letting that whatever you want to call it spirit or universe or whatever kind of flow into the painting. I know I want to on a commission if I'm painting. I know I want to on a commission if I'm painting a portrait. I want to make it look like that person, but you get lost in the flesh tones, you get lost in mixing colors, you get really lost in the eyes and the mouth and the nose, even though you know how to normally paint that.
Speaker 2:You get lost into there and you almost embody the subject that you're painting right and so your feet are on a skateboard and you're bending your knees, your body's like in this like flow state and you're skating. And if you're doing tricks, you know, you know how to do the trick, but you still have to be in that flow. If you focus too much on how to do that trick, you're gonna not do the trick. You need to, like, relax a little bit and get into that flow state. So skating is a good reminder of that. Um, and like you know, like I said, falling and getting back up, um, that's, that's super important, um, I think, and the concrete's pretty hard.
Speaker 1:I I can imagine Well. So these did backstory. When I was doing interior design, I had a group of guys that I worked with and both of them I don't know when I think they took both took up skateboarding. Like in later in life I saw many photographs of them with broken collarbones and broken arms and it did not deter them and they're now in their 50s because I'm now in my 60s and they were 10 years deter them, and they're now in their 50s because I'm now in my 60s and they were 10 years behind me and they were still skating like religiously.
Speaker 1:So this is a shout out to those guys, john and Jim. And then they were incredible woodworkers and so I'd be really curious to ask them the same question, because they're in a flow state. I mean, I worked with them all the time so I really saw them do their work and they were just brilliant masters of their craft. But my question that I'm curious that's coming to mind is that have you initiated any skaters into the arts beyond just owning a beautiful board? Has anybody gotten curious about painting a board?
Speaker 2:a thousand percent. Um escape. You know, I had the gallery on canyon road before. Now I have this gallery. Um, a lot of um people that maybe wouldn't create art, um, maybe want to do art sometime. Um, they don't approach me to show in the gallery, you know, which seems normal. But when I do the skateboard show, I have, you know, someone that works for the state Can I submit a skateboard? And I said, sure, you can submit it. I'm still a curator, you know, and so I like to, you know, encourage artists like that. So I've had many artists that haven't touched a paintbrush or anything like that create a skateboard and they are good, it's just so interesting. Another surprise is architects. They, you know, took drafting. They're really good at making skateboards. I think a skateboard is a little bit like an easier way to transition into the fine art world, so it's just kind of like a bridge say more about that.
Speaker 1:Why? Because it's a smaller space. It's like working on a small scale.
Speaker 2:At first, I think perhaps the literal size of a skateboard is usually about 30 to 35 inches by 8 inches and the size is feasible. But there's also this idea that skating is a little bit punk rock or a little bit edgy and you don't have to frame a skateboard, you don't have to submit it through an art review usually. Um, you know, you're, you're, you can do a skateboard, feel free to like, critique it, it's okay, it's just a skateboard. But on the other hand, you know, I've hung skateboards by, you know, $50,000 paintings in the same room. You're an interior designer, you can see how these big windows they're doing now on these thin walls.
Speaker 2:So I've hung, you know, art by a John Nieto painting $50,000 painting. I took a skateboard there's $300 and hung it, you know, in the same room and it looked so good and it's just I'm just smiling inside, you know or with the client and they loved it. And so this type of thing happens the artist is unknown on the skateboard, you know, sometimes they're very well known, but in this case the artist was pretty much unknown as an artist and you know. So it just creates an opportunity to present your expression of art and feel vulnerable, but also not too vulnerable, like musicians would release a mixtape in New York before without a record label, so there's a little freedom and vulnerability as well there.
Speaker 1:And is the community supportive of people who are creating skateboards for the first time? I mean, I remember I was an art teacher a long, long time ago and they were high school kids, but the kids who could render well, they had a lot of cred and the kids who couldn't render well had a lot of cred and the kids who couldn't render well got a lot of heat from the people that you know. So there was this kind of it wasn't particularly supportive and that may be because it was high school and everybody was sort of like flexing to like who is going to be cooler or whatever. But um, is the? Is the community supportive? In the same way? Is there there's competition, I would imagine, in the skating, like who can do better tricks and whatnot, and are is that? Is it a generally supportive environment where people are, are supporting people to push their limits and go edgier and everything like that? Or, and is it the same with the art? I know that's a big question, but I love that question.
Speaker 2:Um, it's very thoughtful. I think that the skateboard art community is more supportive for newcomers coming in than the fine art world. And um, even as the skateboarding part, when I started skating later in my life, it's embarrassing to kind of show up and not know how to skate right, but you're going to do it. So I would go at night when the lights were on, so nobody was there right. But as you get better, there's certain times of the day you got to skate and skaters would yell out to me bend your knees, lean forward.
Speaker 1:You know things like that so coaching you from the sidelines coaching me nonchalantly.
Speaker 2:You know that type of thing, um, you know like wear different shoes, even you know. And so there was a little bit of that. Um, like I said, damon from initiate skate really embraced um me and so did the other skaters there and other artists. And you know, bear in mind, these skaters have been skating since they were kids. This is something they've been dedicating their life to, and so you have this like poser mentality of you don't want to be an imposter or anything like that, but you've got to start somewhere. And skateboarding really embraced skaters, really embraced me and other artists.
Speaker 2:Through that process, as I'm introducing artists onto skateboards, the art community really embraced these young artists coming in. So there is a coffee shop called Downtown subscription here sure, uh casey owns it and we did a show called skate skatopolis, um, where we donated the proceeds to national alliance of mental illness and we invited different artists to come in and these fine artists would. They didn't know who this art was, but like, whose skateboard is that? And I'm like that's an, that's a 17 year old that goes to high school. This is, um, you don't know this person, you know. And so there's this like embracing, like tell that kid to come to the coffee shop, to the show. I want to meet them, I want to invite them to the studio. There's this kind of community.
Speaker 2:So I think, to answer your question, there's a healthy support system in the art community and skateboard community and there's an unhealthy way, you know. So I'm only concerned with the healthy way and, um, you know, just embracing that. There's a lot of coaching going on, um, so, you know, you give artists a skateboard. They're like should I sand this? Do I need to gesso this? What do I use? Okay, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna, you know, and then you start to support them, help them as much as you can without influencing their own unique style, because I'm excited to see what they come up with. I don't want to tell them to paint like anybody else. So there's a fine line between that, and so I would say 100% yes, the skateboard and art community is super supportive. If you find a bad apple here and there, just move on.
Speaker 1:But it really is great. So I'm surprised also, because I would think that when you have a skateboard, you know getting it right. You've got one. I mean, you're not going to have a whole wall full of skateboards or maybe people do, especially if they're collectors. But I would think it would be kind of intimidating to try to do a piece of artwork on something that's going to be like permanent. That way it's not like doing a sketch on paper where you can crumble it up and throw it away.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So it's a huge commitment to this especially. I mean I imagine not everybody has the means to make multiple skateboards right. I mean, sometimes this is their one shot at decorating something.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 1:So how does that pressure mitigate it?
Speaker 2:Artists that are concerned about that. I send them to the skate shops, where, you know, if I crack my board a little bit, um, I'm gonna go get a new board and I'll go to the skate shop, I'll get a new board and I'll leave.
Speaker 2:I'll take out the trucks and the you know hardware and I'll leave my cracked board with them and they put it in this bin of used boards and so they, you know, so there's that and so, um, you know, the skate shops know I'm sending artists there all the time to get a used board and so they can paint on that. They don't have to spend any money. Um, that's so great. Yeah, so the skate shop that?
Speaker 1:does take the pressure off. I mean, I think you know, even though I've had the experience of being a practicing artist, if I had like one somebody gave me one skateboard and said you can decorate First of all, I'd never be able to figure out what I would do. I mean, I've been waiting to get a tat until I started at 30. I haven't been able to figure out what it was going to be. So I'm now. I have nothing.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It's not too late decision, but um my other I've got two other questions. One is how does music tie into this? Is or is there musical artists and the skate community and skateboard painters? Is that all intertwined or are they sort of separate camps?
Speaker 2:oh, without a doubt. Um, I don't know how many skateboard videos you've watched, but the when you watch a skateboard video, even from the 90s, um, the music is the most integral part, and that's how I found my music. So, um, watching a skate park, the skate part by you know, if you're a skater has a part in the video, so it would be like 10 parts, for instance. And so the company it's usually like a shoe company makes a skateboard video and they film these skaters over months and then they create this video.
Speaker 2:Well, each part has a different song that the you know skater or the director, producer, and that song is really something that just energizes you. Something about watching a skater jump on a rail, do a 50-50 grind to music is the most poetic thing you'll ever watch, and so you start to fall in love with that music. And so a lot of my music interests are from hip-hop and heavy metal and rock come from these skateboard videos. They're just got their finger on the pulse of that subculture and, as you know, like the subculture bubbles up to the to the top, and then there's another subculture below that. It's very cyclical, and so you're always getting introduced to new music with skateboarding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so cool. So subculture and counterculture, how would you define them as different? Because subculture just sort of you know the way you just said that it felt so unintimidating. But if I think of counterculture, which is kind of like that has more of like barrier to entry, whereas subculture just sort of feels inclusive, the way you're describing it.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I would say more about that difficult times that we're in right now, just because of political propaganda that has sunk its teeth into counterculture and manipulated it and use it for advertising, marketing to get what they want. They're very intelligent with that. So if you're going to be counter, you want to be counter, counter, counter. There's, there's, there's a more heavier force of counterculture that is out there. That has to be subculture too, because once it becomes, non-subcculture is if it's healthy or not, not good or bad. Yet healthy Does it serve all people, and me personally.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of underserved people here. I have a lot of privilege being who I am, just born how I am, and so there's a lot of people that don't have these privileges. So, just by definition, does that make it counter? Because society and the politics makes it difficult for them? No, they're just being themselves. So that counterculture is almost like a term that I don't think would be used often anymore, because it's just healthy, it's very healthy.
Speaker 2:Iron sharpens iron Like people are going through a lot of difficult times right now. It's just this necessary by any necessary means, just to survive, raise your kids, be healthy, not be abused, not be someone's thumb pressed down on you. So I think there's. You know, I'm reading a lot in the paper about our homeless situation, the unhoused in Pete's Place and things like that, and a lot of these comments. I think it's kind of misunderstood a lot. So what's healthier for the individual, what's healthier for the family, the community? And then realizing how people are underserved, how realizing how people do not have certain privileges that you may have. So it could be regarded as counter, but the counterculture that I grew up with in the 90s was super cool, like you know, just like you know just the pixies and you know, as it seems so counterculture, but now it's mainstream, right?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So that it just all bubbles up once once money gets a hold of it. Yeah, and so I don't really want counterculture to be money defined, because there are people with money that that are searching for healthier ways of existence for all peoples.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think it's also interesting because what you've described is such a supportive community, and I imagine it goes both ways. I mean, for you to show up as a white guy in your 30s and to be supported in learning how to skate, and that sort of cross-pollination and the diversity of that mix of people is inherently healing, you know. So it kind of goes both ways. They're being exposed to somebody like you who they might have thought was out of reach, but you're the inclusive person who is bringing them into the gallery scene, bringing them into the arts, and so it helps bridge that divide that could otherwise just be getting wider and wider.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent, and there's a lot of people like that, and when I was showing up again, people were cheering for me At the skate park. There was nobody nobody Now my friends or you know colleagues at the gallery scene. When I told them I was skating, they're like what, what are you doing? And so there was a little bit of that, but I was just concerned for broken bones, or were they there?
Speaker 1:Was it something deeper?
Speaker 2:Some, some were very much concerned about my health, you know, falling and broken bones, but some were just unable to understand what was happening Because, you know, again, I was going to Art Dubai, um, you know, I was, um, wearing suits and traveling to these fancy resorts and presenting art and selling it for ten, twenty thousand dollars. Um, that was kind of my way I made my living, um, but I was also skateboarding. So they're like really worried about am I throwing this away? My, some of my artists were a little concerned, you know, because I was creating a business and paying their mortgages by selling their art and now I'm getting into skateboarding and so there's some concerns there.
Speaker 1:That kind of uh, you know, just naturally happened and so, in terms of the flow of educating up, how did how, as you're staying in the skate community changed their minds, or has it?
Speaker 2:I guess I didn't really care. Um, you know, one of my favorite artists that I represent and I do really well with is matt gutierrez, and he was a bmx pro and so he realized at some point he can't be a BMX pro his whole life you know there's a shelf life to that and he's still really good at BMX, but he's an amazing painter, one of the most amazing painters I've ever witnessed. He just has this talent, he has this drive, he has this kind of technique. So you know, when you're doing a trick at the skate park, you have to do it over and over and over and there's a lot of failing and you know, like one success, like you landed the trick and now you know how to do that trick. Well, with painting it's the same thing. He's just really dedicated and disciplined to his craft.
Speaker 2:And so once I started to represent artists that were skaters and bmx pros and they were into this alternative sporty kind of thing or they're in music bands, things like that, that that kind of developed. So it became this more holistic artist expression. A lot of my artists, like ben garza, was in a traveling band, a successful music band, but he's also an amazing painter and so there's a lot of that kind of crossing over into what I curate recently, so it kind of blended in I just find this so cool because you know, you think of, plenty of painters are also musicians, but you don't hear many dancers or ice skaters or you know people who are moving in flow types of activities you know being also painters.
Speaker 1:So I haven't encountered many of them, but this seems to be kind of more than just a fluke. I mean, there's something that's really integral here.
Speaker 2:I think so. We're multidimensional people. I come to mind like Tracy Hollister is a ceramic artist I do very well with and work with, and she was a yoga teacher and, you know, very disciplined in her practice. But I think there's these blending of yourself. You know, very disciplined in her practice, but I think there's these blending of yourself. You know, I often picture I've never played the accordion, but my picture is this accordion, right, and when you let's call it inhale, when you like, stretch it out, there's a bunch of different notes there that are all part of this thing. And when you breathe, when you like, stretch it out, there's a bunch of different notes there that are all part of this thing. And when you breathe and you exhale, um, and you breathe it down to one note. It's almost this refining of who you are. So you know, does. Does the bmx pro show up in the art in a different way that maybe is not immediately visible? Does tracy's yoga experience show up in her ceramic? I think yes to all of this.
Speaker 2:When I look at Ben Garza's paintings, I think music notes, like there's a lot of music notes in there. There's less music notes in there. Oh, you're listening. You know what are you listening to? He's like Chet Baker ah, I see that in your work, you know. So there's this like blend and it also happens the opposite way, um, like artist david santiago, um, amazing painter of portraits. Um, he actually, out of necessity, became an amazing woodworker because he started making his own frames. He wanted to create dimensionality into his work, and so there's that.
Speaker 2:Tammy Schweitzer is one of my artists that really is into healing, helping people using kind of these witchy ways of tarot reading and understanding our archetypes and our spirituality, and she just had to get it out onto canvas. And when she did that, when I first saw what she was doing, I'm just like, wow, this is amazing. She came into the gallery and she's like listen, we're friends, I just want to show you my art. You can say no, you can kick me out of here. And then she put the piece on the table.
Speaker 2:I was just amazed because she was able to effectively express a part of her that has been used for something else into art, and that's where I'm finding a lot of golden nuggets. I'm finding people living more healthier lives, you know, and being able to create a space that they can show. That is, I guess, like a way for them to breathe through certain times and just a different way to breathe. And when you learn that expression in two ways you can learn it in three and four and five and now you're starting to create like a larger vastness and capacity to love, to express, to breathe, to create and get paid for it when you sell something which is really nice.
Speaker 2:They're going to do it anyways, but it's just really nice for them to have that experience.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that, these sort of multidimensional artists or multidiversified artists, I don't know what you'd call it, but it does help us break the mold and kind of build those bridges between different skill sets, because you know, we tend to silo artists you're a sculptor, you're a painter, you're a dancer, you're a musician but it sounds like what you've created here is an opportunity for all parts of ourselves to show up. You know, all the creative aspects, get a voice and then it sort of it shows up how it shows up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trust me as an art dealer. You want the tree artist that you're selling to keep painting trees.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:When they're like, hey, I painted a building. You're like, ooh, you know, because you're going to have to learn to market that You're going to have to learn to find collectors for this new way that they're expressing themselves.
Speaker 1:It's difficult because you could just have this like you know what sells in and well, I'm curious about that, because if you have a collector who is collecting a particular artist and they love that person's art form and they're growing as an individual and the artist is growing as an individual, if suddenly what comes out of that growth goes from tree to building, I would think it might go the other way around. But whatever you know just goes from one. Say, is somebody working on land and all of a sudden they're interested in water. You know, I would think that you'd have the collector base that would support that growth, or is it just harder for you?
Speaker 2:Not necessarily. A lot of collectors really latch on to certain styles. They like that style and when you change it up it's like your favorite band doing a country album. When it's a rock band it's kind of like what's you know? I don't know about that, but I think it's also for the artists they're not necessarily the tree artists in our example not necessarily abandoning painting trees. I always encourage them keep painting your trees, but explore this new medium. And you know, when I first started painting, I asked an artist how do you paint a rose? And he's like you paint a hundred roses, you know. And so you know, when you find something new, a new way to express yourself, do it, discipline, keep doing it and really explore that. And I think artists are able to do that. Artists can kind of are alchemists, you know.
Speaker 1:No, there's a lot of. I get that Because you know a rose created your first painted rose as yourself. That you bring to that rose is going to be very different from the 10 000th rose that you bring with that present self to that rose so even if it's the same subject matter. There you can. You can witness the evolution of an artist across those pieces yes, and it's directly related to that human experience.
Speaker 2:I remember the first time I learned about boundaries and I did my first boundary with someone. It was a business thing and it was so scary, it was really messy and it was just like the world's going to end. But when I put my boundary, it was an artist and the artist was like, yeah, no problem. And I was like, oh, you know. So then I was like everybody gets a boundary. You know like it was just like it opened the door to, to, to that. My first rose did not look like a rose, but my 12th one, you know, started to, and then the 100th one. I was really good at painting roses and and you know it's. I think it's just opening the door to release something within. I think there's so many gifts that everybody has and if they have the vehicle to release it, it's really good.
Speaker 1:Well, that's an incredibly important message for you know the audience that I'm trying to reach, because I think getting people to reconnect with their innate creativity and the first time they make an attempt it can be what they might think of as a disaster, but just like that, you fall down, you get up and you just keep at it. And I'm sort of trying to create this concept well, not creating the concept, but trying to disseminate a concept that we need a creative practice, just like we need a spiritual practice, or we need a creative practice just like we need a spiritual practice, or we need an athletic practice or something that keeps us in shape, and that our creative sides need that kind of nurturing and self care as much as anything. And I love that. What you're doing here is really pushing people to their limits. Not pushing to their limits, but encouraging them to explore beyond what they might think of themselves and fall down and get up and just keep going and see what comes out of it. It's like cultivating a garden, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I like that in your curiosity, in your way and ability to connect with the art community and do all these interviews, you're learning different perspectives as you're doing that, and so there is this incredible way to 360 degree way of looking at what you're trying to do, and I think there's a lot of things that you touched on with. That last statement, too, is one is discipline, just the discipline. I'm not a gym rat, you know. I'm not someone that like, oh, loves to go to the gym, but I'm getting up and I'm moving my body. I have to do that to make the rest of the day really work out for me, because I'm trying to get into that discipline, that practice, and so when artists are going to have an idea and they want to create something for the first time, I would just encourage them to just do it and then do it again, do it again, do it again and not be so judgmental on themselves. We're allowed to make judgments as our own personal curators. We're allowed to invite the community and have a little thick skin, you know, but have also this grace for yourself as you're creating and not everything's so precious, you know, as far as, like, you're creating, and so I would just encourage artists out there to just keep going, keep going and and take some tips.
Speaker 2:I mean, I remember this one artist. I was trying to nail this um, the cerulean blue, with this, um, landscape of new mexico in the sunset, and I painted like 50 of them and I'm like I can never quite get that where the sun meets the thing. And he's like, oh, pumpkin orange. And then he just mixed the color right in front of me and he took his brush and went over to my canvas and I was like, oh, you know, and he like did one brush stroke and it was like, oh, there it is. And so he in that, effectively, you, he dropped a bag on me of money, you know. Basically, because every time I'm like, oh, that's the move to get that feel it's like the Soviets, when you study them, their paintings in the snow, they'd have this Soviet holding a pail and the pail would be red and it'd be the one red thing. It's like ringing a bell in church, you know. And so these like little tricks that you learn learn.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like what you were saying at the skate park, where they tell you to bend your knees yes it's the same thing, right exactly bend your knees so you don't break your ribs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's really helpful to have community that is supportive.
Speaker 1:Um, you know so and again that practice of the craft you know because, the art emerges from the craft of doing it. The 10 000 times, or whatever malcolm gladwell said. You know, there's that 10 000, 10 000 times rule, that once you do it 10 000 times, it suddenly it's like it's in you, right, it's you that you can dance it.
Speaker 2:Totally that could be daunting. You know that number to to a lot of artists. Um, when you step up to something that's blank a blank skateboard or a blank canvas um, it's pretty daunting because a lot of artists, when you step up to something that's blank a blank skateboard or a blank canvas it's pretty daunting because a lot of your fears are coming forward. So, um, you know, I would say, um, you know, just do it once, like just do it, and it could be messy.
Speaker 1:Life can be messy and well, every day is a blank canvas right, and so we do. If we think of it that way and that's actually one of the analogies I've been trying to create when I was, the idea of bringing people into artist studios is to see them staring down a blank canvas and they get up and they do it every single day and if they can do it, you know your life is nothing but a blank canvas. What do you want to paint on it, right?
Speaker 1:yes and I just I get so, and that can be so intimidating, unless you bring these baby steps to it that you're describing. But you know, just try something, try something else, add some orange, right, and there's so many ways that we need to do that in our day-to-day lives. That would enhance the quality of our lives and the quality of our work, and I would completely agree.
Speaker 2:Um, it was a mary. Oliver says what you going to do with this one and only precious life. And you know Rembrandt painted on napkins, bar napkins, you know. And Picasso on scratches pieces of paper, andy Warhol on receipts, and you know it doesn't have to be so precious. Like, you don't have to go to the art supply store. I love my art supply store, but you don't have to. You can go anywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, I have to ask you this one last question, because we didn't say how did you make the decision to get on a skateboard at 39 or whatever age you said you were? I mean, like, what inspired you to go? I mean you had so many different ways to express yourself already as an artist, so what took you there?
Speaker 2:At that age I got divorced and so that's a big you know thing in your life that happens, and you know you're completely in love with your wife and your family, but it's falling apart, and so it was kind of synonymous with you know my life kind of falling apart and taking it back into my own hands of what I wanted to do. I've surfed. I remember surfing in Newport Beach, california when I went over there. I surfed every day and I remember how it made me feel, and so I was searching for this feeling and it was so appropriate that I broke my ribs the first day.
Speaker 1:It was the first day that you broke your ribs yes, yeah. Oh my God, I didn't catch that. Oh geez, oh gosh, I didn't catch that. Oh geez and oh gosh. There's so many places we could go. We're sort of out of time, but that I can, yeah, so you take this risk to feel that feeling, so that you feel a little bit of freedom around this difficult space and you. But you went all in and you're still there.
Speaker 2:I think that's to be commended yeah, I almost skate every day and yeah, it's okay to fail, it's okay to be messy, you know just it's where your heart's at. I think you know. Try to be the healthiest person you can be perfect place to end it well.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us today. Please like and follow us on artstormingorg, where you'll find a list of our shows, a transcript of this episode with links to the guest page, as well as our other projects. Art Storming is brought to you and supported by Artbridge and listeners like you. Look for us on your favorite podcast platforms.
