ArtStorming the Art of Remembrance: André Is An Idiot

Mortality doesn’t have to be a closed door. We sit down with director Tony Benna and producer Stelio Kitrilakis to unpack  “Andre Is An Idiot,” the award-winning documentary that turns a terminal diagnosis into a riotous, deeply human portrait of intention, family, and art. What starts as an unthinkable pitch—make a comedy about stage four cancer—becomes a blueprint for living boldly and leaving a legacy that feels handmade.

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Music for ArtStorming was written and performed by John Cruikshank.

Transcript

Setting The Season’s Theme

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Have you ever wondered what makes creative people tick? Where do their ideas come from? What keeps them energized? What kinds of things get in their way? Is their life really as much fun as it looks from the outside? Hello, I'm your host, Lily Pierpont, and this is Artstorming, a podcast about how ideas become paintings or poems, performances, or collections. Each episode, I'll chat with a guest from the arts community and we'll explore how the most creative among us stare down a blank canvas or reach into the void and create something new. In our inaugural season, Artstorming the City Different, we dipped our toes into the vast ocean of creativity with a focus on some of our favorite creators of Santa Fe, New Mexico. That conversation was enjoyed by artists and non-artists alike because it showed us how we can all benefit from learning how to generate something from nothing, dream bigger, charter new territories, and solve problems in new ways. In season two, we're going to take that concept of generating our lives with intention to the next level. This season, we're talking about legacy, art as legacy, and how the most creative among us tackle this rich and deeply personal subject. Welcome to Artstorming: The Art of Remembrance. If you've been following along with us lately, you'll know that we've been exploring themes of how we proactively or inadvertently create our legacies and the role art can play in how we live and how we leave. But today we're stepping out of the artist studio and into the cinema for a very special edition episode to mark the release of the new award-winning documentary, Andre is an Idiot. It's hitting theaters nationwide beginning early March 2026, and honestly, it couldn't be a more perfect companion piece to everything we've been discussing in this season of Artstorming. It's irreverent, it's poignant, and it tackles our art of remembrance theme in a way that's, well, uniquely Andre. But for those of you in Santa Fe, mark your calendars for the weekend of March 27th. The film will premiere at Sky Cinema, where producer Stelio Kitrlakis and I will be hosting a live QA right after the opening night screening. I believe tickets are still available for the Saturday and Sunday shows. And I'll be introducing the film for both of those showings as well. Uh, for those of you listening in other parts of the country, I urge you to find showings near you. This film is not to be missed. My even bigger hope is that it will become a cult classic, available and encouraging important conversations for years to come. So let's dive into why this story is so important.

Meet The Director And Producer

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Well, thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Oh, you're so welcome. So I'm with Tony Benna and Stellius, and we are art storming today about the movie Andre is an Idiot, has already started the circuit in the film festivals and is getting great acclaim and has won some awards. And we are going to be rolling it out in Santa Fe on March 27th. So this is a special extra episode for us, dropping whenever we decide to do that. But I I wanted to jump on this opportunity because it's so amazing how in alignment with our season two this whole project is. And so I'm very eager to just get your take on how this whole project came to be and the impact that it's had on you guys personally. So, Tony, you're the director and Stelio, you're one of the producers. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So why don't you guys take your respective moments to just fill me in on your particular role and how this all came about?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Sure. You want me to start with Stelio or you want to go?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Why don't you start?

Andre’s Pitch: Comedy Meets Cancer

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah. So I I I worked with Andre in advertising for multiple years. He was a wildly crazy creative director, writer. And every project that he came up with was insane. We almost always died or were arrested. He was always trying to have me jump a fence to film some illegal scene or something like that. Hey, we can't shoot over there, we got to shoot over there, kind of thing. I hadn't spoken to him in about five years, but over those, over those years we worked together, we became really close. And he would tell me all these crazy stories about his life. And one of those was the Green Card wedding. And all these stories I thought he was embellishing because Andre being a writer and a creative director, I thought, hey, half, this is probably just you know bluff. Um, so when he called me five years later, we hadn't spoken for a while. He he sent me an email and he said, uh, got a really fun project. You know, let's get on a zoom. And I thought it was gonna be another ad. And I get on a zoom and he he said, I have stage four cancer and I want to make a comedy film about this. And I thought he was messing with me. Andre being Andre, he never knew he was joking. Um, so I was like, Come on, what's the catch? And he was like, There's no catch. I just want to make this funny. I want to learn from this and I want to experience this and I want you to direct it. And I said, Man, can I just have like two weeks to digest the fact that you have cancer before I agree to this? I was shocked, you know. And and uh during that week I just thought to myself, you know, cancer's not funny, but Andre is one of the most hilarious and brilliant people I've ever met. And if anyone can make this funny, it's it's gonna be Andre. And my initial goal was if I could just capture his crazy stories for his kids, that's already enough. And I also wanted to have them corroborate the truths. Uh turns out every crazy andre Andre story is 100% true, which is scary, but but real. Um, and so that's how it started for me. And still, I'm sorry if I had spoken too long, but no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

We've got plenty of time here, and I won't I'm gonna go deep into all of this, so you guys take a couple also my connection to Andre was very similar to we um the at an agency that we all worked at, I started started inside another company I had, and then it grew out of that. And I went over there to just say hi to all those guys after they'd been in business for a while, and then I met this weird guy, Andre. And at the time, I was uh chasing entertainment projects in Hollywood, TV shows and movies and all that sort of stuff. And I said to Andre, you know, this is kind this can be fun for us. Why don't we go pitch some stuff in LA and see what we come up with? And that's how we got the Apes project. And we continued to pitch insane stuff um for the past 10 years. And during that time that Tony wasn't working with Andre, I was still pitching stuff with him. Um, and I I don't know why Andre didn't want to tell me that he had cancer first. He talked to Tony and Lee first and his family, obviously. And they got started, and I came in once they were up and running, and Andre was funding it, and he said to me, I don't know, I think maybe we're gonna, I think we're making a movie. What do you think about that? And I said, I think that's a great idea. Let's see what we can do. And I have partners that are much more active in Hollywood, so we got them involved, and that's how it all started. And I was delighted to find out, wait a minute, Andre, you're already, you already started, and I already I know the director, and I know the other people that are involved, and I know the DP, and I know everybody here. They're all, you know, we all work together for a million years. So it was like a family get together in that sense, and and quite literally with this family there the whole time we were shooting too.

Building A Family Of Collaborators

SPEAKER_00 7:17

So well, it's like the world's longest awake. One of the uh my guests earlier this year talked about giving uh an awake for his mother who wanted to be with all the people that had been in her life before she died. She knew she was dying, she knew it was imminent. So they had a huge party and they got together and she got to see everybody, and it was a big celebration of her life. And like with Andre, very consistent with who she was as a person. And and what is so moving to me about this whole project is that he thought to include all of you in this very intentional, not just a public service announcement for go get a colonoscopy, which is brilliant in and of itself, but but just to to make leave that imprint that you all had tastes of, you know, in a very profound way. And he left this incredible legacy.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

So you know, I was having a conversation with him at the end of the filming, and I said to him, Did you plan this whole thing? He said, Yeah, I did plan. And I said, Well, so, and what what were you thinking about getting all of us together? And he said, I think you guys could I was talking about Tony, something had happened with Tony. I forget what it was, but I brought Tony up and he said, Well, I want you guys to work together. I said, So what, you think we're gonna make something else in the future? And he said, Yeah, I think maybe you guys will that's what I want. I want you to, and you know, we have a couple of insane projects, but uh, you know, we'll see. I mean, Tony's this film I believe is launching Tony's career as a documentary filmmaker and just a f uh filmmaker overall because he did such a great job. And the only reason he was able to do such a great job is because he fought like hell. And this, it's so funny. We sold this picture um with Andre and you know, his family, and it was felt more kind of like a family story. And we had to, and Tony fought hard for this, explained to the studio, this is not a family. I mean, yeah, he's got a family, but he's not a family. This is a different kind of story. And so it, you know, that was an interesting trying to push that through and make sure that we were able to tell that version of Andre's story and not like some sort of sitcom.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Well, I mean, without without giving away anything, and you know, some people will have already seen the movie by the time this podcast launched, but but the irreverence that you're able to capture about this this human being. I mean, the tragedy is we all wish that he was alive so we could know him and work with him and engage with him in in life now, and and to see his uh his spirit. Obviously, it was the inception for this, but just to watch that arc of his in a tragic but humorous way, watch that vitality just sort of draining out of him. But he talk about fighting, he didn't give up. He to the very end held on to his incredible joy for life.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

I look at it as Andre didn't make a film about his life, he made a film about life, and I think that's why it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I would add to that that you know, it's not even a film about cancer, it's just a film about Andre, who happens to have cancer.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah.

Not A Cancer Film, A Life Film

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Um, and when I when I look at it that way, I think that was one of our biggest battles in post-production, was that we were trying to paint uh an authentic portrait of a man and his life. And I think we succeeded, but there was a huge uh barrier to getting to the cut we landed on. And I think because everyone wanted to put this into a sad cancer box. So we've seen this movie, want to put it in that same box, the movie movie we've seen. But I was like, Andre's like nobody you've ever met. So why make a movie about him that's like a movie you've ever seen? It has to be something extraordinary, got to be something unique. And I think that that was the battle that Celio and I and uh really fought uh with posts was it's okay this movie doesn't fit into a box because Andre didn't. And I'm proud of the fact that our film is is beat because it is Andre. And I'm proud of the even the edgy animations that I did. I just feel like all of that represents the character in a way that elevates him and the the human we knew.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So yeah, you did a great job on that. I'm personally very I've been producing stop motion animation for 40 years, forever. And this not only is this it's rugged, but it's not super refined, but it's so appropriate to what this is, it's perfect for it. So uh I think Tony did an amazing job with that. And it takes you completely out of the moment into some other world.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Well, and and for our purposes, well, the reason that I love it is because our whole theme is about living and leaving with radical intention. And if anybody has captured that, the spirit of that, it was Andre's you know, intention and your vision and carrying it out that does that. And it's exactly the message that with Artbridge, we're trying to get out there into the world, really interrupting this idea that you know we live and then we die, and then if you're a big enough personality, maybe people remember for a few minutes and then you uh end up in what we call the the cement orchard, a graveyard with tombstones. And we're trying to blow through that whole thing. And so, in the same way that your film is trying to disrupt the way we look at a story about a person and their life and their death and how they chose to leave, we're it fits beautifully into our whole theme. So I was so excited when I I saw it and it's so refreshing. And I hope that people will follow suit with this, that this will become, I don't want to say a genre in and of itself, but it it almost is. It's like, how do we take a tragic life situation and turn it on its head and see it from a completely different perspective?

Fighting For An Authentic Cut

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yeah, I would say that what I felt knowing Andre and working on the edit and creating the film was what Andre exuded to all of us. And I think one of the gifts he left me was live how you want to live, die how you want to die. Like you can be yourself all the way through, unapologetically. You don't have to give a shit what anyone else thinks about you. Live how you want to live, die how you want to die. And there's there's no convention you need to follow. And I would also say, you know, when you're talking about like we all end up in a cemetery at some point and forgot me. Um, one of the best uh moments for me uh during this this this process of the film being in festivals was after Sundance. Uh Andre says in the movie, he says, you know, you don't really die until nobody speaks your name anymore. And I was talking to Andre's family after the premiere at Sundance, and everybody was emotional, and we were all so excited. And uh Tulula uh said to me, you know, now that this film's out there, my dad's name will be spoken and he'll be remembered. So theoretically, just like Andre says in the film, his name will his life will go on forever because we're gonna speak his name as Andre's an idiot. But uh he'd love that. We'd love the fact that he's remembered as an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

That's we all know it's really though. I didn't know she said that to you at Sundance. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yeah, it might have been at the end of the week, but it was definitely during that week. Yeah. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

So, how has it impacted you guys? Are you are you living your lives with more intention as a result of this whole project? Or is it one of those things that it's it's you're still too deep in it to hold it?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Or Tony, Tony is running around to every opening of the film. You know, now we're at the tail end of the festival circuit and about to in two weeks start the theatrical release, and the distributor has him every day going to a different city.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

It's like uh that doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

That's right. I'm I'm the stop motion puppet now. Um puppet around. Um, no, but I I would say that to answer your question, though, that the filmmaking process and working with Andre and everyone and watching Andre and his family go through what they went through and working with the oncologists and the oncology nurses that we didn't put in the film because we had to make a decision during the editors science film is this is just more of a character piece. I think we made the right decision, but we did we did film with the oncology nurses and the oncologists. And I guess what I'm getting at is my takeaway is consider your mortality every day. You know, the idea of momentum or the idea of the more that you consider death, the richer your life is going to be. And it's not just from Andre that I learned that, but from the oncology nurses and from the oncologists, because they see this every day. And it, the conversations we had with them were profound. The way that they live their lives when they leave their work, the way that they view every morning that they are alive compared to how I was viewing my life, which was just sort of stumbling and bumbling through, but not really thinking, I only have a limited amount of time and I no one's promised tomorrow, kind of things. And so I think that that was one of the gifts that uh Andre and the people we interviewed along the way really gave me was consider your mortality every day.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah. And what I love about it is that he's not heavy about it. He's he's um, but he also in his the way of being, he is such an invitation to consider that, right? He's an invitation to consider being your most audacious self every single moment of the day. And I love how everybody in his life was just sort of is in agreement with that. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been in his life. Um, from the great wonderful story, which people will discover about, you know, how he met his wife and how that all unfolded to the his relationship with his kids. I mean, all very unconventional.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

He was super inspirational the way he lived, and it, you know, and I think that's why people clunked him. And at the same time, though, you can't live supercharged that way without being the occasional asshole, which he was very capable of doing of doing. Like, yeah, you know, they they got to the point at mechanism, the agency where we were all working, where certain clients he he wasn't allowed to go to the meetings because they knew, Jesus Christ, this client is very difficult. And Andre's gonna tell him what he thinks of him, and that's probably not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

So Well, I mean, that's also the artistic um, you know, yeah, and it's inspirational.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

It's like everyone's, you know, we all we were all inspired by it while we were working with him and making it. It was like, Jesus, this guy is like, he's getting up and doing it again today. I can't believe it. It's so, you know, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

So Stelio Tony just offered effect that it had on him. Did it have an effect on you? I mean, you guys were close friends in addition to producing this Yeah.

Radical Intention And Legacy

SPEAKER_01 18:11

You know, when someone you love that you're close to is dying and dying slowly, it's excruciating. And there was that excruciating component uh to the four and a half, five years that we we were doing it. Um but it was also inspiring. I mean, I I I I appreciated that he inspired me, and he did fucking pull off the thing that he wanted to do, which is get us all talking about the next thing. You know, I'd love to do something with Tony. I've told him about a couple of crazy ideas. Who knows? I mean, I don't know some of it, but you know, Tony will get an another gig and as the result of this film. And it's funny, Lee, his best friend, I can tell Lee's thinking angling something. I don't know what he's thinking, but he's thinking, you know, he's gonna it's gonna catapult his career. So I mean, all that's that all that stuff affected me because I felt like uh he I tell like how did he even figure that out to do to make a statement that was gonna live beyond him in this way? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Well, because it was a collaborative project, it must have been kind of challenging because you you you didn't know when he was going to die. So you didn't know how long this project was going to go on. I mean, were you filming every day for that entire five years or three years?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

No, it no, it was three and a half years of filming, but we we were filming probably once every six weeks for about a 10-day period. Um, towards the end, we were filming more. Um, and when there were certain, you know, situations that needed uh our attention, we would I'd fly out and film. But um, cancer is one of those things where we weren't sitting around waiting for Andre to die. We there were so many moments where we thought he was going to survive this. He was involved in some amazing possible clinical trials that he just was at the verge of getting into. And there were things that were life-saving that were so technologically advanced that seemed like this could change the entire trajectory of the story. And that's of course what we were excited about following is what if he beats this thing? What if, against all odds with this new uh clinical trial, we're making an entirely different different film than we thought. Um, and I think we all had hope, and I think that cancer does that too to us, is that there's these really high highs and there's these plateaus where you stay at these high highs where Andre's doing great, responding to the chemo, everyone's laughing, we're all having a good time. Then there'd be like a scare, like a little low. And then for a few few weeks, we'd be like, man, I hope that you know that things get better, and then it'd go back up again. But over time, that sort of started to just like be more of a downward slope. But I think that all of us had hope and just as much hope and I guess naivety as Andre and Janice did in a way of you know, denial, I guess, denial. Um, and we were having fun making the film, we were making art with our friend. Like, what what better excuse to make art with our art with our friend? And also, I do feel like he curated this group around him, as Celio's saying, he handpicked the five or six people that were going to be around him for his final years to make one big art project. And uh to be included in that circle meant the world to me. Andre had a tight circle as it was. Now it got even it got a lot tighter when he got his diagnosis and to be involved in that circle and included, you just wanted to do whatever you could, right? You wanted to be there just to spend time with him.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

It's amazing to me that you guys were co-creating this art project and you really had no idea. You had raw footage, you had conversations that you were collecting, but you really didn't know what the thing was gonna be until, you know, you couldn't know until the end. And and then you had the enormous project, which I now have much greater appreciation for because there's the editing process that happens after you've accumulated. So that's almost like the the filming of it is just acquiring the media, and then the painting actually happens in the editing room, and especially with all the stop animation or whatever that's called.

Editing As Grief And Craft

SPEAKER_01 22:05

And you know what? To Tony's credit, he responded to the material as it was created, and as we shot it. A lot of documentaries, a lot of filmmakers have an idea. I'm gonna make a film about a happy guy dying of cancer, and it's gonna be about his family whenever it is. Tony stuck to I'm gonna see what happens, I'm gonna reveal it as it it reveals itself to me, and I don't have an he didn't have an Agenda, which I think is uh part of why it's so good. You know, it wasn't, it was a soft hand.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Well, yeah, and as as somebody watching it, you don't even know how the film is going to end because you don't know how you guys are choosing to do that. But I did not foresee any moment from moment to moment. So I was absolutely riveted the entire time because it does feel like it's happening in real time. And even though it's a sever several year period condensed, you are in the moment with each frame and each shot and each choice that you guys made, which I think is phenomenal that you could keep that freshness and aliveness to it. My original question was how much time after he died did you come up with the final cut? What was that gap in time?

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Uh well, we edited for about a year until we had the final edit, but I would say the first eight months of that edit were all uh trial and error, mostly failure. Uh, mostly getting forced into a film that didn't represent Andre. Um, and it wasn't until the last two or three months that Astelio and a few of the Safe House Pictures people helped me get my director's edit, and I was able to take control again, where I cut the film that I'd shot. And that film really does play off of the emotional roller coaster that we were on. And that was my intent is that I want you to laugh, and we were laughing. I want you to get a little bit of taste of oh, this could get a little bit uh scary, but no, it's still fun. Andre's still there, everyone's having a good time. And I wanted the the audience to feel what I felt. And I think that that comes across. And when I really think of the cadence of the edit, it's that three and a half years in a nutshell. And it was 95% laughter and fun, you know. Um, and then, you know, well, maybe 90% laughter and fun and 10% reality. And uh, tried to make that resonate to the audience best I could.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

It must have been so incredible to watch the thing in its entirety, having lived through it, to then see the edited version of it, and then be able to determine whether that was true to your experience. You know what I mean? What an incredible courage and a lot of fortitude to be able to relive that experience, especially people who if you love them so much. Was that smart?

Curiosity, Outtakes, And The Puppet

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Or yeah, yeah. The edit process, I was on an interview earlier today with Rolling Stone and they were asking me about that exact thing. And I said, you know, the editing process for me was my grieving process because I spent a year with Andre after he was already gone, and not only with Andre, but with his puppet. Um, and I would yell at his puppet and be like, damn it, Andre, you guys would be falling over, you know. And then I I would be crying and I'd broke my hand. And I mean, I had this whole emotional breakdown when I realized in the end it was it was just really the way I was grieving uh the past three and a half years was through this edit process. But also one thing I wanted to add that's kind of funny and light-hearted is you know, we had so much footage, as I as uh Celia said, um, more than 300 hours. I think it was we could have made a four or five-part series about Andre. Um, we I gave Andre this like whatever you want to do will fill because you have cancer, and I don't know. What do you want to look into? I get I didn't want to direct him too much because this is his journey, it's his experience. And so we went and shot at a radon mine in Montana. Uh people were putting radon radioactive drops in their eyeballs. We shot a crystal healing session, uh Andrew. Which were amazing, though.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, I wish the movie was four and a half hours long because there's so much great stuff in there.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Andre insisted on doing nine grams of mushrooms. Uh you know, we were like, all right, you know. So giving Andre that like that that leeway though, to do whatever he wanted, there really was no structure to the film in my mind for quite a few years. I was like, this is crazy. We're just shooting all this random stuff. But I was unpeeling at the same time, I was unpeeling the layers of the onion with his family, with him, his daughters, his brother, to sort of understand where everybody was at to ground it. And I think that's it was Andre's uh crazy impromptu ideas that he wanted to do, mixed with what was really grounding the film, which was the emotions going on with the family with Andre and watching Andre sort of transform into being more vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Um I totally agree with that, and that was one of the biggest surprises for me is I I knew his family, his wife and his daughters. I'd met him before, but getting to really know them under these circumstances was you know, I'd say like a year into it, or I realized, oh, now I'm I'm gonna know his whole family. And I'm gonna know Janice and a lot better. And um that kind of thing. What would only happen on a documentary, and frankly, would only happen on a documentary that you were shooting about someone that you love. I mean, it's it's a very for us, it was a very, very unique experience. And most even documentary filmmakers, I wouldn't think, would have the same sort of experience as this. It's very personal.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Very well again, Andre being the central character and the character that he was, his curiosity to go do a primal yell or whatever that was the death yell, which that was one of my favorite moments because it's one of the things that in years of constructing this season about intentional living and dying, I hadn't encountered that particular practice. So I'm thrilled to learn about that. But for his curiosity, while he's feeling like shit, to be able to go out there and explore all of these different things that you didn't necessarily include in the film, from the the bowls to the radiation stuff. I mean, he had to be such an insatiably curious human being. And a lot of these things you can't experience unless you're dying, because otherwise you're just sort of a journalist exploring around the perimeter of it. But when you're actually the person dying, and then to bring the film crew along to experience his experience of that firsthand is amazing. I mean, like I think you guys have to do like a part two with all the outtakes or something because it would be amazing to present all those different options to people.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I was gonna say we scratched the surface in the film of what Andre uh was curious about and looked into. If it was up to Andre, we would have gone to get a consultation with the head transplant doctor. And he I the the craziest thing about working with Andre was you never knew if he was actually gonna do it or not. And when the head transplant thing came up, I thought if we go to Italy, he's gonna try this because you just never knew. You could never tell what was a joke and what wasn't. And that was the best part about Andre, but also a little worrisome as the director. You know, you're like, I, you know, I don't want to be partial to something that's uh, you know, you know, ends up taking your life. But it was just the the roller coaster that he took us on was it was it was fully Andre and just he wants as his brother says, you know, he he he wants to know it all. He's more Aristotelian than Platonic. He wants to know everything. And when he started this process of going, you know, after his diagnosis, he really did look into every which way, uh all these different things, different ways to dispose of your body, different ways to, you know, maybe uh save them, you know. And and I just feel like um that was what made the journey rich for all of us, though, is that you never knew where it was gonna go next. I mean, I I can't even speak to you uh about some of the things he wanted to try because they're so out there. Um but there are things that people are doing. Well, I'll say one and you can cut it out of your podcast.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

No, no, I want to hear it all. The most outplaudacious.

Vulnerability And Becoming Whole

SPEAKER_02 30:14

There was one where he was like, I want to go down. There's these people that they lay upside down and they let the sun rate on their anus. So they like spread their cheeks and they're supposed to like sun gaze through their butthole. And he was like, I want to do it, I want to go down and like try this with these people. I don't think it's gonna help me, but I think it's it'll be hilarious to have my ass up to the sun with a bunch of people on a beach at like sunrise. And so we were like, All right, we'll go film it, but like, I don't know how we're gonna put this in the movie. And and that's where the puppet came into handy too, came in handy too. And is why I brought the puppet into play was that some of the things that Andre was talking about, you can't put a real human being through. Uh, so he's talking about 10 ways to dispose of his body. You know, a puppet makes that acceptable, it makes it funny, it makes it uh comical, but you can't put a human through that in like a recreation sort of thing, right? So he's he's coming up with all these ideas and saying all this stuff on interviews, and I'm like, that's really brilliant and genius and funny, but not with a human. It's funny with a puppet. And so the puppet really did allow us to sort of show some of Audrey's crazier ideas, like Who Wants to Kill Me, um, in a lighthearted way, the way he meant it, which was a joke, you know. Well, sorry, that was a long answer.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

No, but that's great because it does one of the things he's done is he's given everybody access to um breaking the tension of you know, the fear that people go through when they're given a diagnosis like that. And and the way he just so uh approached it head on and said, Okay, let's let's go on this journey. And he took a lot of the fear out of it by making it humorous. I mean, that was one of the things that he that is conveyed so well in the film. And I keep saying, I keep giving him all the credit for, but and he gets credit for it. But the fact that you guys produced something, the final product of which is so accessible and such a beautiful balance of the poignant and the hilarious together, side by side. So, you know, some of this is Andre and and a lot of it is you guys. So uh hats off to you for what you've done here. And I'm I'm still gonna like what of all the outrageous things that he proposed? What any of them kind of produce an aha for you? Like, oh, if if I was faced with this situation, not necessarily a terminal illness, but you know, hopefully we live a little bit longer, but it could come at any time. Any big inspirations for some of the things that he did that you'd be curious to do yourself?

SPEAKER_01 32:49

I didn't get inspired for specific things, but I definitely got inspired by his general attitude of, you know, Stelio, if you give a shit, it's not gonna work. So we need to like do this and not give a shit. We need to just go in there. Like a lot of the work stuff I did with him, which he had the same attitude about, was we would pitch ideas to studios that, you know, they'd ask us to leave the room afterwards. I mean, it was that kind of thing where and that fearlessness is contagious, and that was great. That was like, you know, and that that was sort of the big revelation for me personally of the whole film was okay, you can either die and get sick and suffer, or you can die and make it a glorious. In fact, you can make your whole life kind of special that way. If you just gotta focus and be aware that it's limit your limitations, like you're gonna die pretty soon, or all those things that you have to rise above. And he was very good at that. And he the idea that he did it in a way that inspired everybody else around him, that was part of his goal, I think. I think he had a goal they didn't tell us that we are now finding out.

Family Reactions And Validation

SPEAKER_02 33:55

So, yeah, I'll add to that. I mean, not there wasn't a specific thing that Andre did that I think I would look into because a lot of his stuff was so out there, like cryogenics and whatnot. But um I do think that Andre became a full person during the process of this movie. Yeah. And I think he was aiming to become a full person. And by that I mean to explore everything within him that he had been afraid to or hadn't let out because he had a hard shell. And I think this process of interviewing and the movie almost was therapeutic in that way to sort of let that shell start to break. Um, and I think we all, like he says in the film, you know, we all paint these portraits we want people to see of ourselves, but really the most interesting portraits are the ones that show our flaws. And I think that's what he was he was really good at being vulnerable through humor, right? Which is a way to be vulnerable. If I joke about this, then I'm I'm putting it all on the table. But I think he had to learn to be vulnerable in sadness and in um heartbreak, which is harder, right? That's a harder thing to stomach, especially for him, because he had used humor and his his intelligence so for so many years to kind of brush off the harder things to joke up, joke, joke his way out of him. If I can cut this uh hard moment with a joke, everyone's gonna laugh at him when it's a deal. And we do that through the film too, and I did that in the edit on purpose, including you know all the way to the end, and I don't want to spoil it, but is treat treat the edit like Andre would treat life. Get heavy, cut it with a joke. Get heavy, cut it with a joke, you know? And um, but but I do feel uh that what I learned from him was it's okay to explore don't maybe don't wait till their last years of your life to explore all of your emotions, you know, fully, I guess. And that really comes from Peter as therapist, but I do think that that Jacob's thesis for our film, and I do think that's Andre's transformation over the three and a half year period. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

We definitely saw that arc of vulnerability. I mean, you saw him start go from like a sharp wit, razor sharp, to this sort of softening in the way you portrayed it in the in the film was this beautiful shift of dynamic between he and his family and his daughters in particular. I thought you handled that just so gracefully and and probably so truthfully. And I'm really curious, like what the how the family um responded to the film.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And the family uh uh loves the film. They they when I the final edit that and safe house and I fought so hard for was I think the first time that Janice had called me and said, This is Andre, this is an authentic portrait of my husband. Like I I'm I felt like I just spent 90 minutes with him, is what I've heard from either the girls or Janice, you know, at one time or another during festivals. And I've I've heard that from friends of Andre's too. Like, man, I just watched a movie and I felt like I got to spend 90 minutes with my friend. And even from strangers that never knew him, I I've heard at a lot of festivals, people come up to me and they say, I just felt like I got to know this guy intimately over 90 minutes. I want to know more. And um and I I don't mean to go off on a tangent here, but I guess what the family feels is that this is a very authentic portrait of who Andre was. And I think if Andre could have seen the final film, um I think he would have loved it. I think he would have uh he he he loved all the funny scenes. I think he would have been like, okay, like for the more dramatic scene, let's move on. Because you know, he wanted everybody to laugh. Um, but I I do think it was as authentic as we could have made it. Um what do you think, Celia?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Oh well, I mean, the the most moving example of what you're saying to me was the fact that his father was like, I don't want to have anything to do with this, I don't want to be interviewed, stay the hell away from me. Then he saw the damn film and he's like, How can I get involved? After his son had died.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah, he wrote me a thank you note and said, Thank you for this beautiful legacy you left you've left my son after not wanting to be involved for three and a half years. Um and that was a true, a true honor to get that note from his father.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh, I can only imagine. Well, it's like you know, you've been charged with writing the eulogy for somebody, and then, you know, and the parents don't want to have anything to do, and then all of a sudden they they recognize themselves. And especially I can imagine the father and the brother, particularly. I mean, talk about chalk and cheese, the brothers. Holy cow. I've never seen two more different human beings. And I love the way you introduced and I love the polarity of it in the film.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

And again, I don't want to say too much, but um, I I can see that it was an honor to to to get that message from there's also amazing stuff uh with his brother that didn't make it into the cut in terms of the family dynamic, which is so cool to see, but it's not there.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Well, again, you got to do the sequel with all the outtakes. I just think it would be uh amazing. So say a little bit more because I I could tell it really struck a chord. Um, the the relate the response from the brother and the father in particular. Like in what ways did they he get involved after the fact that he what ways were there too for him to get involved after the fact?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Well, I don't want to talk about it too much because his dad's very private, but Tony made a film that then when he showed it to the subject's parent, moved him in a way that he had never been moved before.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I mean, so Andre appears to be this guy who's all about cutting up, but the fact that he had all these agendas, you know, to get you guys all together to probably move his father and to connect with his father in ways that his father didn't wasn't capable of while he was alive. I mean, you know, we all have these relationships with people that seem impenetrable and immovable. And for you to collectively have been able to produce a piece that was so true to his authentic message and that reached so to the core of his wife and his father and his brother. I mean, wow. I mean, that's that's Andre magic working through you. If I, you know, could have characterize it as something. But it also speaks Yeah, it also speaks to just, you know, how attuned you were to this man and how devoted you were to working with him to get his vision across.

Messages To The World

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah, thank you. I I'd say that, you know, my my biggest fear during the edit was if was actually if the girls don't the film, um Andre's daughters. I just I felt like for their sake, after disrupting their life for three and a half years with their father with cameras and coming out of the house and getting to know everybody on a on a very personal level, that it was very important to me more than the whole, I didn't care about the whole world what they thought about this movie. I just care about what Janice and Tulula and Delilah thought. And of course, you know, I didn't know Andre's father at this point. Um, and Andre's brother lives in Tbilisi, Georgia. So I didn't spoke, I just haven't spoken with him since we shot, but I think he's gonna be in New York, which I'm excited to see him again. But it really, the audience I catered towards was the girls and it meaning Janice, Tulula, and Delilah, because it's their father, it's their it's it's Janice's husband. And if I don't create an authentic portrait, then I've failed everybody. I failed Andre. I failed the family. Um, and I also knew that the authentic portrait was the most interesting way to go. It was we I I didn't make a film about colon cancer. If I would have if I wanted to make a film about a man with colon cancer, I would have found some guy in the Midwest with colon cancer and just made a sad film. It was a character piece, it was about Andre. Um that was the magic, you know. It was his approach to life and his approach to his illness that made this film interesting. That's why I jumped on it, you know. But yes, my my main goal was if the girls and Janice like it, this is a win. And I don't care what Sundance thinks, I don't care what any production company thinks or the world, it turns out that was the right way to go, you know? So the right instinct, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Well, so he had this one motive, ulterior motive or agenda to get you guys all together so that you could work on future projects. And one was to touch his father and one was to touch his family. What do you think if he had a bigger message besides get a colonoscopy? What do you think he see he would like to see as his lasting legacy, the impact on the audience at large?

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Go ahead, Stella, if you want to. I have one.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

I don't know that he uh hadn't that I don't know that he had an agenda that way. Um, but I I don't know. What do you think, Tony?

Can You Top This Work

SPEAKER_02 43:05

I mean, I think it's twofold. I think that Andre, I mean, I believe that Andre is so intelligent and so brilliant that he actually put us all together so that we would fill the void of him being gone. And so Lee and I are very close now. Stellio and I are very close now. And Andre would have been in that glue between all of us, but the Stelio and Lee and I weren't very close, but he left us together. And I think he did the same thing um with the family by giving uh Janice and the girls almost the second family of friends that Andre loved and trusted. Stelio and myself, Lee. Lee's over there at the house a lot with Janice. You know, they hang out a lot in San Francisco. We have a very close relationship, obviously, after this journey. And I I just I can't help but think that Andre did that intentionally. He's like, how can I replace myself with people that can fill the void when I'm gone? And um, that's beautiful. If he masterminded it, because it seems like he did, um, it's it's unbelievable. And I have these lasting relationships now that I'm so happy to have and I wouldn't have had five years ago. Um but your question of I guess the second part of that question would be um, what did he want to tell the world? I don't think Andre even, I mean, when he was, you know, at the end of the making the film, no spoiler alerts or whatever, but he I don't think he really even knew if this thing was gonna get out into the world. I think he hoped it did. Uh I think he'd proved it along the way. I think that his message was be who you want. I mean, he said it to me on an interview live how you want, die how you want. Just be who you are. Like it's that simple, you know? And um, I think that would be his other message. Just be unapologetically yourself. I think that's the more the message than get a colonoscopy. Be I I think the ultra altruistic part of it saved lives he wanted to do as a redemption for some of the ad work he had done and just to give back. Um and I I do think that he felt that he didn't want that to happen to me, he didn't want it to happen to Stelio um or anyone in this in the world for you know at 50 or 45 to get this horrible disease or even younger now. And so I think he uses self-deprecating humor and his brilliance to save lives and to spray us all together to fill the void when he was gone in case he wasn't gonna be around.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yeah, that's really well said. And and also I yeah, I think it was his message, if there was one, was don't forget to stay alive, you know? You're alive, don't forget to be alive.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

That's beautiful. And did you see did you see him passing that spark along in that during the time of the filming? Did that that you were mentioned that it was sort of contagious. Did you see him spark that in people?

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Everybody, everybody. Yeah, yeah. You we all everyone knew what was going on in we were all self-aware of what of the impact of what we were doing. I mean, we didn't really know where it was gonna go, but you knew you were doing something that mattered.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

So and so even if even if it was just for the family in the end, I would have been okay with that. Even if we would have spent three and a half years to give the family that film, that would have been all the gratitude I needed for the project because I was so grateful to be involved or just to be included in Andre's circle and to spend that time with.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

So, how does one as an artist and the the film arts, the seven arts, is such a unique thing because it's such a collaborative project, but how do you top this? I mean, this has got to be for both of you something that is such the intersection of authenticity and your art form and collaboration and all of this. Uh, how on earth do you find satisfaction in any future project?

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Um, it's a good question. I I think um for me, this was the training wheels for the next project. And I know that that that might not be the answer you're looking for, but what I mean by that is Andre gave me the fire and the gumption to finish a project like this, to see it through through all adversity to get this thing out into the world. So I think that he he left me with almost the training to do any project, to do any creative endeavor that comes my way. And it's probably even easier, I would imagine, than this was. Um but what do I do next and how can I top this? I don't know if I ever will, but I also don't know if I ever need to because this wasn't just Andre's redemption. I think it was all of our redemption in a way. I mean, we were we'd all worked in ads, we'd all, you know, were looking for something with a bigger meaning, a bigger project with a bigger meaning that gave back. And Andre not only gave us that or me that, and I think all of us, but also he changed my entire career. And I think that he knew that when he was leaving us, that he knew that if this worked, it was going to change a lot of our lives in a very positive way. And so um, he left us with this great uh amazing gift of you can do this, you just climb the biggest amount here, everybody else climb. Now go out and be free and make more.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Make more Yeah, and in terms of it leading to other projects, there there'll never be another project like this, which is full, which is okay. You know, every now and then in your life you get opportunities that are unique for whatever reason. This was one of those. I think it would be insane to try and uh recapture this in any way that uh it would be foolish.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

But there'll be other things. When you when you've tackled death and and looked it square in the face and the loss of somebody that you love so deeply, I mean that that is sort of the the pinnacle of the mountain. But it does, as you said, it's great training wheels for taking on the next audacious project. And I think, you know, if he has a legacy, it's that audacity is definitely his legacy. And I must give you courage to take on any any topic because you know you can approach it in a in an irreverent way.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Right. And also he gave us the gift of don't take it too seriously.

A Movement About Mortality

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Oh, right, which is which is absolutely important. I mean, like, you know, there's a tendency to want to talk about this with a kind of earnestness because what you've done is so amazing. But again, it would be it would if the folly wasn't part of it, it wouldn't have been nearly as successful. I mean, it just that that's another great message to the world is to not take yourself so seriously. Yeah, you know, and I think that I was actually thinking about, I thought, well, do you think this would be difficult for people? I mean, he sets a really high bar for not taking yourself seriously. And he sets a really high bar for, you know, living life with absolute gusto and fearlessly and all of these things. And for people who are struggling with cancer and feeling pretty wimpy right now, or who are struggling with the loss of somebody, I could see how they would feel like, oh my gosh, anything that I'm doing that's less than that is I'm, you know, I'm inferior in some way, or or that I'm not, I'm not living up to my full potential. So it obviously goes without saying that not this is Andre's way of doing it. It's not everybody's way of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Yeah, my it's not the way that 99% of the people would approach it.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

But I can't tell you how many uh people have come up to me after screenings that are cancer patients, currently with cancer or cancer survivors, that have said to me, this is the most important film I've seen, and I wish I would have seen this three years ago when I was diagnosed. And I'll ask them why, and they say, Because I've been ashamed, I've been angry, I've been upset about the the cards that got dealt to me. And watching Andre approach it like this would have helped me so much the last three years. Just know there's another way to look at this. And even if I'm gonna still have those negative moments, I can still flip back to this. It's okay to laugh about this, it's okay to talk about this. And so I think it's I think it's gonna open conversation in unexpected ways for cancer patients, cancer survivors, and just families of and friends of people who have uh that know people that are going through cancer. And and I think that's another beautiful part of this film is that it it allows us to talk about it candidly. It allows us to even joke about it. Um, I've had people say, I just want to show this to my family so we can all talk to my cousin about it because everybody's not known I've talked to him since he was diagnosed. But if we could all watch this together, it's gonna open that conversation. And I think that's the other beauty, the other thing that this film offers is opening conversation about mortality, about death, about sickness, and that it's okay. You know, we're all gonna go through this at some point, we're all gonna experience this at some point. Let's talk about it, let's joke about it. Let's so I I don't think it's uh gonna hold people back, hopefully. Um, from what I've gathered, people are very inspired by the openness that Andre exudes in the film, and I think they want to implement in that in their own lives that same openness, humor with their loved ones that might be going through something similar.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

And Stella, you were gonna say something about that too.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

I mean, we're excited. You know, one thing that's really I think the film's gonna do really well. I know you're not supposed to say that, and it's a little film and it's an indie thing and all that, but I think it's gonna do really well, and we're all as excited as shit. You know, in five in six days it it opens. So everything changes. I don't know how, but it will. Everything will change. I think for the better. I think it'll be really well received. And I think I think we made a really good film that wouldn't have been as good as it is if we'd listened to everybody else. Um, and I I I think it's gonna, I think we know how good it is. I I think nobody else does yet.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

So well, I I think of this as so much more than a film. I think this is the beginning of a movement. And I I say that, you know, with all humility because what what I'm investigating over this last year is this willingness for people to come out of the closet, so to speak, and talk about living life deliberately from the standpoint of our mortality. And the fact that we have not talked about it, that it's one of those closeted conversations. I mean, I have entire dinner parties around this topic, and it would seem like the most morbid, morose thing, but they're the most fun dinner parties I've ever had because once you can break through that barrier and and and just lift the lid on it, it's like the whole world is possible. Everything is possible.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

So And not only that, but in deciding to do that, deciding to engage in the process of his life, he ended up having the most dynamic four years of his life, or at the end of his life, because he chose to engage in that way. I'm not saying they were the best years. I mean, he had a lot of great things, but there was something super significant and dynamic about those the last four years of his life, which he initiated upon getting a terminal diagnosis. That's what made him spring to life, which is awesome, I think.

Community Engagement And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Well, and and it and there are so many cases where a tragedy brings kind of a new life and you know, very suitable for this year of the snake with the shedding of the skin turning into the year of the fire horse. I feel like your film is happening right at that juncture, which is the perfect uh metaphor for what he is talking about. And we could all shed these false notions of who we are and what our life is supposed to be about, and then step into that fire horse energy or whatever that is, and just take off into the sunset. And it we can take that message or that lesson that Andre learned in the last four years of his life and apply that to the last whatever how much time we have left, each individually. And I think that's the fundamental thing that's so inspiring about this movie is the permission that it gives us all to consider the possibility that whether we have two more years or, you know, 40 more years, you know, there's no time like the present to get engaged. And I think that's the the butterfly effect that this film is going to have. It's much more than a film. I hope it does hugely well in the box office and all of that. But I also really hope that it does more than that, that it has this ripple effect that that goes out. And I and I say that in Andre's honor and in your honor. And thank you so much for having the courage to do something so out of color, out of the lines, you know, like this so much. And and it's gonna do great things for for storytelling in general, like the stories that we're allowed to talk about. And uh I I can't see to wait to see what you guys are up to next. And I'm so excited to have the debut here in Santa Fe on March 27th. And uh Stelio and I are gonna be able to do a little QA. And I was thinking about an interesting way to collect questions. So I was thinking of it calling it Questions to the Void, where we actually get people to ask questions in theaters all over and create like a text your question too. And then we could actually do a follow-up if you wanted, that is the just the answers to the questions that we pull from the audiences all over the place. I mean, there's so many ways I'm all about engaging people in conversation. So it's not enough for them to just sit passively in the theaters and have the experience of the film coming into them. I want to create a space where people have a chat room or some kind of uh interaction after the fact because I feel like it is the perfect catalyst or the perfect prompt for conversations that need to happen across the United States and even in Europe when you do it there in the film.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Well, that's a really good point. And helping you do that would only help the film. And we still have some major milestones to go through the streaming sale and when it bec when it goes up and it's available, which is all which is coming up over the next month. So what you're saying makes sense, actually.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

That's well, I mean, I would just love to see this not just be another movie. You know, I really want to see the beginning of a conversation. And I think Andre would approve of that. And then even if we just had a way to collect using social media or something like, what's your death scream? Like, tell us your share your death scream or or share your most audacious idea for or your playlist for your exit. I mean, these are all the kinds of things that we're trying to get people to play with, right? And to talk about. And for us to be able to create a space or a collection, a vehicle to collect this and get people talking to each other, I think would be the natural extension and expression of this. So maybe we can um brainstorm on different ways that we can do that. And Artstorming would be delighted to facilitate that in any way that we can. But certainly our podcast, um, this conversation will be available. I know you've been interviewed by tons of people, and there are lots of um podcasts and interviews out there available, but we really would love to be part of the ongoing conversation.

Credits And Listener Support

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah, I would love that. I think that this film, any any great film should have you talking and thinking about it for days after. And you know, that that conversation, I think, after seeing something like this, that like Andre's an idiot, is is uh an important conversation. I think it's what what Andre would have liked, would have wanted, as you said. It's opening up that conversation about sickness, death, mortality. We should be able to talk about these things while we're alive with each other. It's much like it's very similar to like what's going on in death cafes, right? So that might even be a great place for this film to be street is in death cafes open conversation. It's such a taboo conversation, as Andre says. You know, everyone's so afraid to talk about death and talk about their vulnerabilities. But the more we do, the stronger we are and the less, the less fear we have um about the unknown, because we're we're all together on this now. We're going through this together. So I would definitely love to be back on the podcast to continue the conversation in each day of the week because I I feel like Andre started the conversation. Let's carry the torch.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's a beautiful place to end it. And we, but not to be ended, we uh we will continue this conversation. And I'm even thinking that we have a companion art exhibition that we're calling remains to be seen. I think Andre would approve of that title. It's a memorial arts exhibition. And we could possibly even put a trailer for the film within that exhibition because it is such a beautiful expression of what we're doing with the exhibition and with our podcast and our our whole organization.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

That should be okay. You know what, uh, Lily, if you just tell me whatever it is that you want to do, what you're planning, I'll run it by uh the distributor or get it approved.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Okay, great. Um, thank you so much. Stellio, I'm gonna take a couple weeks. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

This has been great. Fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

All right. Talk later. So thanks for joining us today. Artstorming is brought to you and supported by Artbridge NM and listeners like you. Look for us on your favorite podcast platforms or wherever you listen. Your subscriptions, likes, comments, and shares help us to reach more listeners and attract the support we need to thrive in these challenging times. If you love what you hear, please consider making a contribution. We rely on your help to keep these conversations going. Every dollar you contribute goes directly into programs that support our mission. And we've been offered a matching grant that will match every dollar that you contribute. That means more compelling stories, more in depth articles, and an even greater impact on our community. Please visit our website at www.artbridgenm.org and thank you so much for being an essential part of our work.