Embark on an auditory adventure with Jacob Skraba, an extraordinary mountain runner who has swiftly ascended to the zenith of trail and ultra running. Our conversation dances through Jacob's season of triumphs, from conquering the Leadville 10K to his remarkable endeavors at the Leadville 100 and Black Canyon 100k. With roots stretching back to Northern Minnesota, Jacob's tale is one of transformation—a former non-runner who discovered his calling among Eugene's roads and Bend's trails, all the way to his high-altitude haven in Silverthorne, Colorado. His narrative intertwines with the art of architecture, revealing how his professional life fuels his thirst for the great outdoors.
As we traverse the landscape of Jacob's racing strategies and experiences, we get an authentic taste of the mental fortitude and physical resilience vital to ultramarathon success. He unravels the intricacies of high-elevation running, nutrition tactics and the invaluable support of a dedicated crew. Jacob's reflections on the Leadville series paint a vivid panorama of the ultrarunning community—a tapestry of gear choices, strategy, and the electric atmosphere of the finish line that pulses with the heartbeats of its competitors.
The episode reaches its crescendo as we debate the greatest of all time in sub-ultra mountain running, navigating the accomplishments of emerging talents and venerating established elites. From the raw energy of race starting lines to the euphoric release at the finish, Jacob's story is not just about personal triumphs but the collective spirit of runners who push beyond their limits. Whether you're a seasoned trail runner or simply a lover of captivating journeys of passion and perseverance, lace up for an episode that promises to inspire and ignite your adventurous spirit.
Jacob Skraba - IG - @skraba.runs
Embark on an auditory adventure with Jacob Skraba, an extraordinary mountain runner who has swiftly ascended to the zenith of trail and ultra running. Our conversation dances through Jacob's season of triumphs, from conquering the Leadville 10K to his remarkable endeavors at the Leadville 100 and Black Canyon 100k. With roots stretching back to Northern Minnesota, Jacob's tale is one of transformation—a former non-runner who discovered his calling among Eugene's roads and Bend's trails, all the way to his high-altitude haven in Silverthorne, Colorado. His narrative intertwines with the art of architecture, revealing how his professional life fuels his thirst for the great outdoors.
As we traverse the landscape of Jacob's racing strategies and experiences, we get an authentic taste of the mental fortitude and physical resilience vital to ultramarathon success. He unravels the intricacies of high-elevation running, nutrition tactics and the invaluable support of a dedicated crew. Jacob's reflections on the Leadville series paint a vivid panorama of the ultrarunning community—a tapestry of gear choices, strategy, and the electric atmosphere of the finish line that pulses with the heartbeats of its competitors.
The episode reaches its crescendo as we debate the greatest of all time in sub-ultra mountain running, navigating the accomplishments of emerging talents and venerating established elites. From the raw energy of race starting lines to the euphoric release at the finish, Jacob's story is not just about personal triumphs but the collective spirit of runners who push beyond their limits. Whether you're a seasoned trail runner or simply a lover of captivating journeys of passion and perseverance, lace up for an episode that promises to inspire and ignite your adventurous spirit.
Jacob Skraba - IG - @skraba.runs
Hey guys, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. Today we got a fun one. We are joined by another killer, my boy, jacob Scrava. Jacob now resides in Silverthorne and he had an absolutely incredible 2023 season, notching a win at the overall win at the Leadville 10k. He also earned himself an 11 place visit finish at the Leadville 100 and this past year, a top 25 finish at the Black Canyon 100k. I hope you guys enjoy this one. My friend Jacob Scrappa, it's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live, stu. What did you think about that course today? It was pretty dope, right.
Speaker 2:Dude, that was pretty fun. Yeah, you liked it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll cut the cheese. Run club. We'll cut the cheese, cut the cheese.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, ace is a character dude, he's a good guy dude, he's wild he's a wild man like did he bike through all that snow he fucking had?
Speaker 1:to have he fucking biked there and then biked. I mean, dude, he's 13 something, 5k orK. He's an animal, gosh, dude, we're live now. Everybody welcome. Jacob. How do you pronounce his name? Is it Scabra, scraba, scraba. What nationality is that Like?
Speaker 2:Austrian.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was going to say Czech, so I was close.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Close enough, I'll take it All right. All right, all right, dude, uh, we're live um everybody, jacob, uh do you want to introduce yourself, talk a little bit about your background and go from there yeah, it's always a good question like how do you answer that?
Speaker 2:who is jacob? I feel like I'm a lot of things okay. Uh, I feel like that changes over time. You know like don't unbox myself into a single box, but I'll start off and say you're an incredibly talented mountain runner I'd like to say I'm an athlete, I think.
Speaker 2:Okay, my preference, I mean, certainly I run mountains, but I like to take part in other sports and it's always changing. Um, I'm an architectural designer. I like working to bring other people's dreams to life. That's a good one. And I don't know. I think I'm just someone out here trying to have fun and learn a little. And yeah, just have fun along the way.
Speaker 1:Sweet, where do you live?
Speaker 2:Silverthorne, colorado, you're.
Speaker 1:Silverthorne. All right, you're out there, dude, you're're in the peaks. It is. Yeah, I'm up in the mountains doing your thing. What elevation you reside at uh, like 9300 feet.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right it is pretty wild.
Speaker 1:It's a little high man. That's like you got a lot of hemoglobin in there it's. It's very high, so all right, let's get into it. Man, like tell me, all right, I guess let's start from the beginning. What is your relationship with ultra and trail and mountain running? Like, how did you get into it, how did you find it? And let's go from there.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of one of those people that hated running growing up, you know, did it as necessary for sports but was never my thing, Would never do it of my own volition. But yeah, sort of came to it during COVID Just trying to get a little fit. I think I'd fallen out of being active and wanted to get something and moved out to Oregon, out to Eugene, uh track town USA.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and just sort of started running when I was there. Um, I mean, it's hard not to run when you live there, it's true.
Speaker 1:I feel like everybody did you start off like doing any road stuff.
Speaker 2:I started out doing road stuff uh for about the first year, more or less. And then I was living in bed one summer when I was out there doing an internship and this little neighborhood I was in road running sucked. It was just so boring.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, like there's trails around here, let's check it out, and just got hooked Like it's. So it was so beautiful and I mean I running in any aspect I'm like love, but yeah, like getting out, being out in nature. I think like I grew up in a super small town, like in the middle of nowhere, Um, and so I spent a lot of time outside growing up and then I always thought I was going to be like a city person.
Speaker 1:And you're from Minnesota, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like super Northern Minnesota.
Speaker 1:Oh, so like almost the UP, like I'm like almost Canada, holy shit, wait, up, am, wait UP. Am I thinking of Wisconsin?
Speaker 2:UP is Michigan. I know it's Michigan. Yeah, that's like the east side of Wisconsin. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ooh, that was bad. I screwed up my geography there, dude. All right, so we just had Nick Toose on the podcast. He's a Minnesotan too. You don't have the accent, though he's got the accent.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I have the phrases but the accent like the fargo accent yeah, it's interesting to me because I've met a lot of you minnesotans and you're all like super outdoorsy people, you know, which is interesting because I I I lived in michigan for a little bit. I know a lot of michiganders and they're outdoorsy people too. So like it's like that Northern Midwestern vibe where these people love being outside and love the aspect of adventure. So is that would you? Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think for the most part, yeah it's like, to an extent like what else is there to do? I mean, if you live in like Minneapolis, then it's a different story, like you can do the city things, but I mean, there's just so much opportunity for recreation there do you guys have wolves there too?
Speaker 1:like yeah, fucking, oh, yeah, dude, holy shit.
Speaker 2:Well, now you got wolves in summit county I don't know if any different conversation, but conversation uh, but yeah it's, that's interesting man um what's the?
Speaker 1:other place that's up there, is it the Boundary?
Speaker 2:Waters. Yeah, so I'm super close to the Boundary Waters, like less than an hour.
Speaker 1:Really, that's where I'm from. Okay, wow.
Speaker 2:It's super remote Okay. I mean it's a town of 200 people.
Speaker 1:And you grew up, did your parents encourage outdoorsiness and being out in the wild or in the wilderness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we grew up like very much doing a lot of outdoorsy stuff, um, like a lot of camping, grew up hunting, um, which, like at least on that hunting aspect, like most people now would be like what, um, and like I was in boy scouts, there was, yeah, a lot of camping, a lot of hiking, just a lot of outdoor activity and, like I don't know, I did a spent a lot of time indoors, like I was very much like someone that liked to read when I grew up, so I spent a lot of time reading, but outside of that it was like everything was doing something outside that's cool, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I I've never, I've always wanted to venture more, like to the upper peninsula where the porcupine mountains are. I have a friend that loves upper peninsula where the porcupine mountains are. I have a friend that loves to talk about the porcupine mountains, um and like just in boundary waters as well, like almost that, like canadian border is just so, so beautiful. I've seen, you know it's. That's cool, man, what a neat way of growing up. And when you say like in in, not in the middle of nowhere, but you like, was it like, how small was your town? Like, like, how Like 200 people.
Speaker 2:Holy fuck Like it is, yeah, like there's not not much to do. Really cool.
Speaker 1:And I feel like I don't know those winters are cold right. Like really, really cold. Yeah, so there's your grit. Now we know why you're such a good ultra runner.
Speaker 2:You got a lot of a degrees or whatever. Yeah that's funny I traded the cold for the snow and honestly, I prefer it that way dude, I hate the cold.
Speaker 1:I mean we all live in colorado. Here you know we're not hiding anything. But like uh, this is my third or fourth winter here and I think I was the most over this winter. I was like I need to go either do another mountain sport in the winter. I need to do something, because running in the cold and running in the winter in colorado is really hard it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can definitely be hard to get out, but yeah, yeah, I mean, compared to the minnesota cold like nah, this is a lot easier for me well, I feel like in minnesota.
Speaker 1:Is it like michigan where, like you, don't see the sun for like months?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's definitely not as sunny as here, but it's also not as gray as like the pacific northwest gotcha okay, all right. Okay, so less seasonal depression yeah, I don't know if I I ever noticed that I had it when I was in Minnesota, certainly when I lived in Oregon. That's very clear.
Speaker 1:So you're a Minnesota grad. I know we were talking earlier on our run. You mentioned a little bit about your collegiate athletics background. Do you want to go into that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I wrote at the university of minnesota during undergrad, um, which is like a club sport. Men's rowing is not like an ncaa sport, okay, with like title nine and how all that works, um, but like still super competitive, like six days a week, wow, for you know an hour plus a day, so like it was a big commitment um, but yeah, rode for two out of the three years that I was there, um, which is super fun. It's an interesting sport, um, and I mean different from running, in that like that's very much a team sport.
Speaker 2:Um and like it takes everyone being on all the time to have like a perfect race or like a great race.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I feel like, yeah, you gotta be in sync. Everybody, everybody's gotta be in sync, or you're gonna get yelled at by the coxswain. Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Fuck. Or like the boat yeah, or like the boat yeah, or like the boat doesn't balance properly and like you start to tip down to one side and like your oars are catching the water oh my god. Um, so I compared to even like a different team sport, like basketball or football, or like, if someone's having a little bit off, like you can still make that work and it's fine, but like it's very, very noticeable, like with rowing gotcha.
Speaker 1:How'd you find it? Like what, what? You just walked onto campus one day and you're like I'm going to be a collegiate rower, or like what.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I had no idea. I think I'd watched it. I mean, I started college in 26, fall of 2016. So, like I remember watching it at the Olympics, like the real Olympics was like I think my first time that I ever recall seeing it. Olympics was like I think my first time that I ever recall seeing it. Um, but literally they just put a flyer in like my mailbox, like hey, come on out free pizza, just come check out the team that is so cool and so like, went down there, did a little bit, met the guys and it's like the university of minnesota campus is in the middle of minneapolis, um, and like right along the river do you?
Speaker 1:you have a.
Speaker 2:Mississippi and so like the boathouse and like we practiced on the Mississippi and I don't like I grew up like living on a lake and so there was some draw there of like that little bit of nature inside, like the jet inside the city that we're just like that is really cool.
Speaker 1:Wow, the mississippi dude, that's what a place to. That's a serious river, that's like the most serious of serious rivers yeah okay, all right. So so you do that for two of the three years and then you graduate from undergrad and next we're in oregon. So you're, we went to the university of oregon, correct? Yeah and you're at track town, usa, and that's how we find trails. Yep, okay, so how did we get from oregon to colorado?
Speaker 2:uh. So, like I said, like I did an internship in bend and that was like my first time really being in the mountains, um, I was like like I really like being outside again, um, being in the mountains. Like I grew up doing a lot of skiing, and I was like, okay, like I'd like to be able to bring that back, started running and I was like, okay, I like could go live in the mountains, do some of the altitude stuff, um, and get to check it out. And I was, like you know, looking around at different places around the country.
Speaker 2:I was like I knew that I didn't want to go back to bend, um great city, but like professionally, like for work, I was like I don't want to go back to bend. There wasn't a lot of opportunity and so I was like looking for for other places and sort of settled on Colorado. And I always had like the dream when I was in high school, you know, like doing a ton of skiing and snowboarding, like I'd love to go out to Brac and you lucky bastard, you did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a.
Speaker 2:You know, I had a couple of job offers for different areas. You know, tahoe, uh like park city, utah, and I had a friend that was living in Denver. So I came out for spring break and we like went up to Brack and I just fell in love with Summit County and the mountains Wait so.
Speaker 1:Tahoe, brack, park, city. These are like the bougiest, nicest like mountain towns ever. Like. What an amazing selection of places to pick from. I know right, yeah, dude, so all right. So you were sold on Silverthorne and that's Brack area.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dylan slash Dylan area. Yeah, walmart, and we're trying to figure out. So one of the funny things about this pod like we were talking before the pod we were trying to figure out, like one of the things I had written down in my notes was that was that Jacob lived in Dylan and we were like, no, it's silverthorne, but I'm like wait a second. What is the difference between silver toward I I know where breck is, but I, silver toward silverthorne and dylan are like right next to each other is that?
Speaker 1:correct yeah, okay, and we, but we don't know the boundary I still don't.
Speaker 2:I nobody has the boundary. I've been here for like two years and I can't tell you I might be i-70, but I don't think it is, because I think Silverthorne extends past.
Speaker 1:Really. Yeah, I thought they were all south of I-70, though no Silverthorne extends to the north, Fuck. Oh, dude, yeah, and then what's the one where Frisco? I'm so confused. I got to learn my geography, dude. Oh, my God, okay, so we know where we're at geographically. I think, um, you're out here, dude. What was your first mountain race out here, like when you got to colorado, did you do? It was a cirque series.
Speaker 2:A basin, is that? No, my first race that I did when I got out here was um the veil 10k at 10 000. Okay, nice, which is like bonkers.
Speaker 2:It was like a month after I moved here, so totally not acclimated to living or racing that high and it's like you take the gondola up to mid-mountain veil and start at 10 000 feet and then go up from there and then come back down. Really, I didn't even know this race existed. It's like the veil like wreck league puts it on, oh wow. But I mean super cool race, great turnout.
Speaker 1:I knew about the winter one. I didn't know. There was a summer, I've heard. Is it the veil hill climb? Is that the or is that different? Veil hill climb is different race, different race yeah dude, I gotta get my.
Speaker 1:See us front rate, like us people on the the front range, where we're not as privy to these races, um, dude, okay. So you're out here, you're doing this. You do your first race. We're not as privy to these races, dude, okay. So you're out here, you're doing this. You do your first race. Obviously, you fall in love with it because you and I meet shortly not too long after, I would imagine at Ram Party where we raced. You whooped my ass and I was like, wow, this kid is insanely talented. As someone that likes to look for the future and look at the future of these mountain runners, you were someone that really stoked my eye, and that's. It was really nice because you got hooked up with my coaches, eli and taber, who are now your coaches yeah and it kind of blossomed from there and since 2023, dude, you have been on an absolute tear.
Speaker 1:So we're talking. We're talking, uh, like under 21 hour run. Right, it was under 21 hours at the Leadville 100. This dude goes out, whoops Rob Carr's ass at the 10 K and the Leadville and wins the whole thing. And then no, no, no shade to Rob Carr. We love you, rob Carr.
Speaker 1:And then um and just had a top 25 finish at black Canyon and then you've had multiple. You know you're killing the cirque series races as far as a basin goes. You've had, you know, some top 10 finishes there, um in the in the expert division yeah yeah, um yeah, dude, you like on an absolute tear, so let's dive into that a little bit. Um, did you? Where did this fitness come from, my God?
Speaker 2:I have no idea, um, maybe that's not totally true. I mean, like, cause I grew up, yeah, just being super active, but definitely, you know, after, after I stopped rowing like I was, I was fit rowing Um, and then I think that was probably like a two year gap then between then and when I started running Um. But just put, I don't know, putting in, putting in the work, I put in a lot of miles, um, and the magic just happened.
Speaker 2:The magic just happened. I don't know I've I've found that I'm really good at just continuing to go on and I think, looking back, like that's always something that's been there, like being able to keep going even when I'm tired and like not stopping, um, but yeah, it's been, it's been wild. Yeah, just a lot of work, though.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's, let's dive a little bit more into 2023. I really want to kind of break apart your season and then get into what your plans are for 2024 and start breaking that apart. So let's start. I'd say, let's start with the Leadville 10K. Let's get into that, because I think that you smoked that course and just had an amazing race. So do you want to dive a little bit more into that? Because I didn't even know you're racing that and it was like the week before leadville, right, it was just oh yeah it was.
Speaker 2:It was totally unplanned. Um, yeah, the 10k was on like the sunday before leadville and I was done what was supposed to be my last like long run slash workout like that saturday and it went like I was like this sucks, like I was like wow, and I was like I was already at that point thinking like go run the 10k and like just chill and be there for the experience, like give me an easy recovery, run me being me, I show up and I'm like I can't, like not race, like I'm just that type of person if I'm in a race, like I'm going to race and so, yeah, I just went out and had a ball with it.
Speaker 2:I mean, running a 10 kit that high is just bonkers, like it it hurts yeah it hurts, um, but I mean, yeah, it was so wild like to be at probably one of the biggest races I've been at up to that point anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah and dude, like how did that feel when you crossed? Because it's a huge, like that's a big race, it's a big deal to like win that thing. And then, like how did that feel? Like when you crossed the finish line you're like, holy shit, did shit, did you? You know, know you were in first, or did you like how'd you feel?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean yeah, I knew I was in first, I think that's a stupid question, because I feel like if you're in first, you would know you're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I guess I took like I took the lead fairly early on, like within the first mile, and I'd never relinquished it. Um, but no, it's super cool to I mean, win first of all. Just like that was a cool experience. But soaking up the energy in the crowd like that because that was what I had really gone for was just to like soak in the leadville atmosphere big spec was a lot of spectators.
Speaker 2:There were quite a few spectators um, and then like it was a huge confidence booster after like having a terrible workout the day before. And then like have that go so well. I was like, okay, maybe we could do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can, yeah oh yeah, hell yeah, and you get the dude.
Speaker 2:The trophy was like it's the dinner plate right the gold pen okay, that's so cool yeah, because big ass gold pen and okay, you got that thing on display uh, I need to find something to set it up on. Oh, you absolutely gotta get it. I need to get something to put on the wall, absolutely, dude.
Speaker 1:Or bring it into your office, dude. Put that thing up there. Little bragging rights. That is sweet and all right. So did you? Do you get like a gold coin or anything like that for winning that race?
Speaker 2:like did they have any auto entries into anything?
Speaker 1:no, okay, I wasn't sure is it all that course? Is it all road or is it like like asphalt pavement?
Speaker 2:or it's like the first and last mile is pavement, then it's like fire road, is it?
Speaker 1:okay, yeah, smoking, dude smoking. What'd you wear? What shoes you wear for that?
Speaker 2:uh, I was wearing sockany and dorfan pros okay, so we're on road shoes. Road shoes, smart, yeah, smart yeah it was definitely not technical, so it's like I'm just gonna just gonna send it sweet sweet all right, so that's one week and then, like the next week, you ran a big race yeah, yeah uh, so the leadville 100.
Speaker 1:Let's dive into that. Yeah, um, I think there's so much to dissect here, like I'm I'm so fascinated about I get. Yes, people, this is a sub ultra podcast. We will talk about sub ultra things, but I one of the things that I really admire about you as an athlete is just your range. You know, you are deadly fast on the short range distance and you've got, you've got. It seems like you really do have the chops on the ultra scene as well, and that is just very exciting to me because I think it's going to do so much for your career. Um, let's dive into the lead vote 100. Dissect that out. This terrible early race. Who starts races at 4 am? I don't know, not me, um, and we'll go from there. So, so how did you get in? You got in through the lottery, I got into the lottery okay, all right, so we got in through the lottery.
Speaker 1:You're showing up race day, dude. Did you wait? What did you plan for? Like did you you? You kind of alluded to me earlier. We're talking about splits like. Was your goal the top 10 from the beginning, or?
Speaker 2:no, it wasn't um. I mean it was being my first hundred um and like having only run one ultra previously, it was like a 50k. Right, it's like a 50k like two years prior, so like not recent at all. Um, but no, I had a thought, I had a pretty good idea of where my fitness was um, and so I mean first goal being to finish. Second goal was like I'd like to go under 24 hours, like I think that's pretty reasonable, and then sort of working down from there, like okay, I think 22 is probably within reach, maybe 20 on like our perfect, perfect day. So like there were some time goals. But I knew, like placement wise, like I had a general idea looking at past results of like you know what different times would give me for placement, but I wasn't too concerned with that, knowing that you know it's first time around first time around and like I can't control how the how other people's right right could have been, could have been smoking fast day
Speaker 1:yeah could have had excellent conditions, who knows?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now let's talk game planning. Did you game plan? A lot Like beginning like with Tabor and Eli, did they? Did you do any like specific workouts on the course or anything like that? Or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean I started working them with. You know, not a ton, but yeah, I mean I've been training on the course prior to that. So, like I was familiar with the vast majority of the course, there's a few, maybe 10 miles that I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Um so, you knew where you were going. Yeah, there's no left hand, there's no wrong turns no yeah you knew what winfield looked like. Yeah, I knew what winfield looked like.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, I knew what winfield looked like like. All right, I know, you know you come down off power line and you're coming down the road and you have to make that turn onto the that's right yeah under the trail there and I'm like you know, I was talking with my pacer, like coming down the hill, and it's like, yeah, we're gonna hit. You know, it's like a mile from the bottom of the power line to that trail. I'm like we're gonna hit this in like a mile.
Speaker 1:We gotta make sure we make the left turn and like not miss it dude, I vaguely remember, even though I've been on that turn twice, I vaguely remember what you're talking about. Let me ask you a question, and I don't want to like fast forward too much into the day, but you finished it pretty early. Obviously you had a. What was it? 20 under 21 hours? Yeah, 20 it's like 2054, 2054. And was Space Camp going on up?
Speaker 2:there. Oh yeah, it was a giant party. Oh yeah, so cool. I didn't know about that going in.
Speaker 1:Oh, really, yeah. Oh, dude, that's like I don't know. To me that was so. One of the things I love to talk about is community. I love our community, whether it be ultra mountain trail, sub-ultra, whatever. It's just like a giant party at the top of a climb. You know, you kind of crest out and these people are passing out whiskey shots and having a giant party and going crazy.
Speaker 2:That, to me, is amazing so wild, so cool to see, like because that's like I mean it's not an official aid station, like it's just people from yeah, from the community coming out and like having a giant party.
Speaker 1:It's pretty dope that's, uh, yeah, and I hope that always like stays there. It's something, even as like I'd never ran the race, but as a core, as a pacer twice, it's like just a core memory for me. Yeah, something of that race that was very special, uh, okay, so back to the beginning. You're dude, like what possessed you to want to run this race? Like what, like what got the excitement to put your name in the lottery, especially because it's like so much unknown, having only run a 50k before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I don't know, I just had a desire to run longer. Like, as I got more into the sport and hearing about things, I was like you know, at some point I want to run 100 and it's like you know, the previous summer I'd been supposed to pace. Um, you know, my runner unfortunately missed a cut off. But like just seeing the community and I was like, okay, this is super cool. Like I know I want to do that, like I know I want to do a hundred. Like let's go for it. Like wow, why the fuck not?
Speaker 1:That's brave.
Speaker 2:And I like I mean certainly having done research, and I'm like thinking about it and I don't know, listen to plenty of podcasts where people talk about hundreds, and you know, I mean like Born to Run, obviously. Like I've read that and it's like okay, there's a lot of history here. And I don't want to say it's easy to get in because, like you, do have to do with the lottery, but you know there's no qualifiers for, like western states or hard rock or something like that right, there's a clear, oh kind of an ambiguously clear path.
Speaker 1:Is that possible to say?
Speaker 2:I think that's probably pretty accurate.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's a lottery that no one knows anything about in the sense for, like, they have no idea the criteria for selection but people just magically get in or get out. Did you write? So I remember my buddy Patrick he he told me that he had wrote some like very heartfelt message that he thought helped him get in. Did you write anything to help you get in, like or I? I remember there was like a note or something you could.
Speaker 2:I don't remember I don't remember yeah no anyway.
Speaker 1:So so you're in, you're, you're like, you start to do the training, you start preparing. Race day comes along. It's 4 am like. I almost feel like with a race like that, because it's such a large, daunting task, I wouldn't even be necessarily even thinking about my competition or competition in general. I be necessarily even thinking about my competition or competition in general. I think you're thinking about surviving the day. Running my own race, like what? What nerves did you have? Did you have any nerves on the start line? Or because that's a even for a 4 am start. It's electric, like there's a, it's a kind of a party still going on yeah, I think I had.
Speaker 2:I had some nerves, like that morning of I think normally for a race I like have nerves, you know, like the days leading up to it and I think gladville I didn't, I don't know I was like confident in the training. I was also probably a little tired of the training, like, yeah, been looking forward to it for eight months since I found out in january like it's finally here, um, but yeah, I mean, it's like, yeah, such an electric feeling and it's like all right, I to concern myself with the task of running 100 miles all at once is like too much to think about. So, yeah, it's like all right, let's break it down into into chunks and see how that goes, see where we go from there. And yeah, not thinking, understanding that there were competitors there, right, but then it's like everyone's there to have a good time, like, yeah, we want to run fast or whatever.
Speaker 1:But no one's making moves in the first 10 miles like no, yeah we're just we're just sitting there talking, having a good time, like yeah, it's interesting, did you? How early in the race did you start to see carnage, like with your fellow?
Speaker 2:because you were pretty close to the front I was, yeah, relatively close to the front most of the day. Um, honestly, like I didn't see a ton, like I mean there were a few people that dropped up ahead of me where, like I didn't see it. And then certainly you know leadville being an out and back race, once you start to meet people on the trail, like then you start to see more. Um, so that second half, like I don't know, coming back up over how pass, like you're running into, running into all the people behind you, and some people are having great days and this year especially was super hot. So, like you could tell, people were like had not been expecting that and that that was having starting to have an effect on people.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, just like yeah, I feel I mean that's such a it's. I don't know you Leadville's got this unique um reputation, if you will, where I mean especially like if you're people in the know that know the course. It's a runner's course. I mean it's not. I mean what? 50, like we talked about earlier. It was like 15,000 plus feet something like that.
Speaker 1:It's like 15,000 feet not a ton of vert. It's a very runnable course and you're over 10,000 feet for most of it. You dip down a little bit at at Winfield or twin lakes. I'm sorry, and to me that's a daunting course for me Cause I like steep stuff.
Speaker 1:pun intended you know brutal course. So my thought on it was like, did you? You're a runner, like you're, it's pretty obvious. Um, you seem like you like more runnable stuff, more. You know it kind of, in my opinion, played your strengths very well. Um, did you think about that at all going in? Or you're just like? You just didn't care? You're just like let's go for it.
Speaker 2:No, I definitely knew that it was a runner's course. Like you need to be able to run it. Um, I mean, I don't know, like with my goal times, I knew that I probably wouldn't have to concern myself a ton with, like cutoffs, um, but knowing that, like, yeah, you should be, like you should definitely be running a lot of this, like there's a the vast majority is very runnable. Like there's some steep, steep spots, some steep climbs, but you got. Like, yeah, you got hope pass. You know power line can be a little steep but yeah, yeah how.
Speaker 1:Coming back is definitely steep, but yeah we're gonna get, but coming back is definitely steep. But yeah, we're going to get into coming back, cause I feel like that's, that's an interesting mental point you know that we can. We can dive into. One of the questions I had for you too, was like nutrition, cause you, there's a lot of unknowns, you know, running a hundred miles and there's a lot of unknowns with like your nutrition, like what was your, uh, like feeling strategy? Did you eat a lot of whole foods? What do you?
Speaker 2:do? I was almost exclusively gels and like tail, like drink mix, yeah, really.
Speaker 1:No upset stomach and you just went through it.
Speaker 2:No stomach issues. I had a couple of shroop waffles along the way, and I mean as much watermelon as I could get from the aid stations. That's my go-to, but outside of that, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then like a few bars. But that's crazy, dude, holy shit. You're like you've got iron gut, like for better or worse for better or worse.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, wow, okay, so because that's like I mean, the reason I asked that is because it's a hot course. You, we know people's stomachs are blowing up on them, it's getting, it's getting ugly, you know. So that's why I was just very curious to see. Okay, so I feel like knowing you, you we got to, you get to winfield pretty, I'm sure you're feeling good. And then when does when do you start feeling like you're in this race? Like when you start like not just racing, but like when do you start feeling a little more like low points?
Speaker 2:honestly, I was feeling pretty low before I got to Winfield. It was like my first low spot. Yeah, you come out of like Twin Lakes and start climbing up Hope Pass the first time, going outbound, and like that kind of sucked. I mean it's a big climb, it's going to suck, but like sucked more than I thought it should have.
Speaker 1:Did you transition? Did you run most of Hope Pass or did you transition into a hike?
Speaker 2:uh, no, there's definitely hiking there. I think the best, I think quite a bit of that was hiked, um, and it's like my legs tightened up on me, just like you know, you're such a steep climb you're not really able to fully extend your legs and I was looking forward to the downhill to start to stride it out and hopefully feel a little better and I just couldn't, couldn't, I don't know, um, and I was like god, am I gonna like drop at winfield? Yeah, I was like I mean, that was the thought going through my head like if my legs don't start to feel better, um managed to catch up with a group of guys I don't know a couple miles out of Winfield and we all made it in together and started to make it back out and picked up and felt better. Um had a decent stretch there. I was like all right, like this is going good.
Speaker 1:Wow, did you do like take any like electrolytes? What did you like? Did anything like resurrect you, or was just just that mental, mental switch?
Speaker 2:I think just like a mental switch of like getting to run with getting around with some people, like because that climb up was all like by myself too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, well, you're in your loan, you're in your own head. Yeah, and you don't like music, right, you don't run now, I don't yeah I mean, I don't race with music right, like I train. I definitely train with music, but wow I just it's just to me that's so crazy, like I would be putting putting audio books on podcasts, whatever I could do to like not think about. Oh my God, I have 97 miles in front of me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was like I was definitely prepared for it, I had my headphones with me, but yeah, I just never, never felt the need or the desire to to pull them out. Wow.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we, we hit Winfield, you're, you're on your way back, You're kind of digging yourself out of this hole. Yeah, what was it like running back into twin lakes, like, was it, did that kind of give you some more Cause you get? You get to see your crew again, get to see everybody. It's a, it's really electric, that feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's like what almost a marathon distance between, and I mean that was for me I think six hours that I hadn't seen them for. And I, you know, I ran up an overhook pass with with another guy. Um, like ran down, we like stopped in the river and like cooled down, like laid in the river, okay, before we came into twin lakes and like that was great, I bet dude felt so good and I mean twin lakes, just like that is the spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, oh, yeah that's the aid station to be at. It's where everybody's at.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is just a party like so much energy there um and then the grind begins. Yeah, then the grind begins um, but no, I mean, yeah, just like the energy and feeding off the crowd there was like it was huge what was your pacer strategy like?
Speaker 1:Did you from Twin Lakes pick up a pacer, or did you wait?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I picked up a pacer at Twin Lakes and ran with him through halfpipe. Okay, blanking on that aid station name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's halfpipe, and then our which power bound? Okay, yeah excuse us uh leadville, I should know this leadville purists are gonna yell at us right now um, okay. So, and I feel like that whole section is, with the exception of, uh, going at power lines, pretty runnable, pretty straightforward. I feel like if you just kind of turn your mind off and just kind of yog your way out, you can. You can kind of just cruise.
Speaker 2:Did you hit any low spots on that end, or yeah, so coming out of twin lakes, I mean there's the climb right out of twin lakes, right a decent climb, and then you're on like the ct yep, which is in theory, pretty runnable. Um, I was definitely pretty low. Um, it was hot. Yeah, I was like I just overheating, like not there's not a lot of streams.
Speaker 1:It's like it's a top section, like I think. I'm pretty confident I've run that section before I have an idea of where it's at and yeah, dude, not, not fun I just like I don't know I was not having not having a good time there. Well, like did you have any idea what place you were in at that point? Like did you know you were having like a amazing day, or or was that more so just self-preservation at that?
Speaker 2:no, I, I had a general idea, um, I think, half pipe on the way out. So you're what, like 20, almost 30 miles in. Yeah, at that point, like someone had said, one of the guys, one of the volunteers at the aid station had said like your top 10 or like around the top 10. And like I knew, you know.
Speaker 1:What did that do mentally for you? Did that lift you?
Speaker 2:I think it lifted me. I mean it was super cool to be like holy shit, that's a big deal, Top 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then you're looking over your shoulder. I mean, at least I would be like, oh fuck.
Speaker 2:You know there was a little bit, but also like I was just enjoying it because I was, you know, I was running with other people and we're like having fun, like trying not to care too much about it.
Speaker 2:I love that I think, um, and then, yeah, I mean like I knew, like okay, there's a few people passing me, I'm passing a few people. It's like I had a rough idea of where I was, but it was never like, okay, I know I'm top 10 or I know I'm top 20, okay, um so you were in 12th place up until the last three miles two miles, so yeah. Yeah, do you want to tell?
Speaker 1:a story about uh Mario Mendoza.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, that was wild. We, you know, my pacer and I came out of May queen and my crew told me hey, you're not that far behind. You know guy in front of you and doesn't look like he's moving super well at this point. Um, you know, like go and try and chase him down, like we think you got him um and we went forever did you like?
Speaker 1:were you? I mean for the end of 100 miles? Were you pushing, or how are you feeling at this point?
Speaker 2:we pushed for like a mile or two out out of the aid station and you get on the trail and then it's like, okay, this slows down. My ankle and my knee were really bothering me at that point, and so I did a lot of hiking.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, this kind of sucks Like this is slow. It's like going from. Okay, I think I'm on like a good day at this point in the race. I could run like two hours two and a half hours and I'm good day at this point in the race. I could run like two hours two and a half hours and I'm like I might be out here for like four or five.
Speaker 2:Like right, not what I was hoping for, uh, but yeah, just managed to keep moving on and you know we made a decision like all right, let's not, let's not care about chasing down, because it's like just adding unnecessary stress and he just appeared and yeah, we were coming up that last final climb up the fire road and saw a headlight and I was like holy shit, there's someone there Like let's, let's try and keep moving, wow, uh, you know, and at that point, like we were running or as much as you can run at the end of a hundred, trying to race against the clock to go under 21 because we knew we were going to be close, um, you know, we'd ran those last couple miles and, yeah, caught him like a mile out and was like all right, let's like push and actually run this. And you know, try not to let him, let him pass back snap that elastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, I must have feel I just can't. Like that's an amazing feeling to catch someone that late in the race, yeah, and to be, you know, boggling back and forth for almost a pop 10 position and being like right there. Yeah, that's amazing. So, and the thing that sucks about the end of the ludville 100 is it's like an uphill finish basically yeah, so you have to yag your way uphill yeah, um, to finish in, what was it again?
Speaker 1:20 hours, 2054, 2054 for 11th place. Yeah, wow, dude, what, what an amazing accomplishment. And you still have some unfinished business. You're thinking about trying to race your way back in, right? Yeah, trying to go back okay all right, we'll get to that in a little bit.
Speaker 1:We'll chat chat about that okay, so you have this amazing leadville. Um, you had a great cirque series, a basin later on for those, for the sub ultra folks. Um, I don't want to dive too deep into that. I really want to get into what you just did in february your black canyon race yeah because to me, I think you would agree, was arguably the most, probably the most competitive ultra race assembled on american soil, the last, like decade probably yeah, yeah, more or less um, let's dive into black canyon dude yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, going back to leadville actually, uh, my pace of the second, my second pace I picked up, was like, dude, you're crushing it. Like you know you're doing so awesome, like of course I was like at that point like I don't want to run leadville again, but he's like, dude, you should go try black canyon, like I think you'd be really, you'd be really good at it.
Speaker 2:And I was like you know, I don't know, like maybe, and like a couple days after the race I was like like, yeah, like we're doing it Really, Like we're sending it. Oh man, I was like all right, you know, texted Eli and Tabra. I was like I don't know what else I'm doing, but I can tell you right now, like I'm doing Black Canyon, Wow.
Speaker 1:Which was pretty wild. Yeah, I to me like that's, that's I. I love it because the course I feel like like it's another very runnable course. I think it's sneaky, technical in a lot of sections, or some sections we can get. We'll get into that a little bit more. Um, reminded me of what we were running on today some nasty snowy muddy shit yeah, okay, so let's, let's fast forward. We get to february I. How did your training block go? How did everything go in prep? Did you feel ready like?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it went pretty well, um, or well enough. I like it went pretty well, um or well enough. I like I hit a lot of I don't know a lot of big workouts, a lot of things, but I also felt like I wasn't at my best. Like, looking back on it and leading up to the race, I was like, okay, I had like a really great long run right before christmas and I was like, okay, this is like, this is awesome, and then post that like I was hitting what I was wanting, but nothing felt great. It was just like a little meh.
Speaker 2:It was a little meh, yeah I felt that before I was like okay, like whatever, like getting it done, but yeah, nothing, nothing, that was like a home run, right. And then I had singles yeah, no doubles.
Speaker 1:Oh, some doubles, maybe a few, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Um. Then I had a yeah, my one of my final long runs like workouts, a couple weeks before the race. I was like I was down here in the springs and I ran and I was just like phenomenal day and I was like, okay, like we're doing this we're doing this like I'm calm, I'm confident again, okay, like I'm feeling good now all right.
Speaker 1:So we go into it confident, all right. So I gotta ask you this was the most competitive race ever assembled on american soil, at least like in my opinion what were the nerves like on that start line? Because, first of all, let's take actually take it back a little bit. So if anybody knows anything about this race, this year the start time got delayed twice, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You want to dive into that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So wake up Saturday morning, you know, bright and early, supposed to be a 7am start and we're in. You know, went to the desert, like expecting to be warm, and it's like okay, like it's probably going to be wet. You know, I mean, it's not like it's in Phoenix the race ends close to Phoenix but it doesn't start. You know, it starts higher up, Um and like it snowed that night and so they delayed the race due to, like the shuttle drivers from the company that they were contracting like wouldn't drive for fear of like black ice on the roads.
Speaker 2:That makes sense and so they delayed it two hours to like a 9 am start. It's like, all right, like, get up there, get on the start line.
Speaker 1:It's 30 degrees, there's some snow on the ground how far did you stay from, like hotel wise, did you stay from the start line?
Speaker 2:it's like about an hour drive, I think that's not too bad, it's on the outskirts of phoenix.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's not too bad um but yeah, like on the start line they let us onto the track. Everyone's taking off their warm-ups a couple minutes to go and they're like, yeah, there's another, another delay, like it's gonna be a half hour because you know there are people taking these shuttles to the start line and the shuttles aren't there. So you know that was a cluster. It's like, okay, there's like there was a little bit of parking so people that had crew, you know, could get driven up or whatever. And so it's like, okay, there was a little bit of parking, so people that had crew could get driven up or whatever. And so it's like a half hour. Do we walk back to our cars, because it's a little bit of a hike, and try and sit there for a couple minutes and then come back? Do we put on our warm-ups? Fuck?
Speaker 1:dude the mental game, and then do you eat again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you eat again? If you've already taken coffee and had caffeine, like do you re-up that? Do you just go? Oh, there's a lot of like that through me. I like normally I'll take a gel beforehand and I think I got so out of it and I didn't realize it until well after, like reflecting on the race, like oh, I didn't actually end up taking like my normal gel that I would have before. Interesting, have something you know like.
Speaker 1:Just so much confusion wow, and it makes me wonder too. I mean not that like to me I still feel like hayden's a god and he was probably gonna win that damn race anyway, but like I wonder how that, how much that impacted everybody's race, you know. And like what would the lineup have been, what would the podium have looked like had it been a normal start? I don't know. I love to throw these intangibles in. How does this make things look? It's interesting to me.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because it's interesting, because there's some people they phoned out before they left their hotel or wherever they were staying, so they just go back to bed. There's some people that already had breakfast. Do you eat a second breakfast, do you not, right?
Speaker 1:How do you like and I think it tests how people deal with adversity. In that, in that situation, Like, obviously everybody, if you're in the starting corral, you're showing a pretty fit. It's a lot of it's what's between the ears, A lot of it's how well you deal with adversity and how you're able to just buckle down and just push for it. So everybody's obviously a little thrown off. We get to the start line. The 30 minutes goes by and now you're sitting on the start line, Are you? Are you looking around and like, wow, that's Hayden Hawks. And like, wow, like, that's out of Mary? Like? Or were you just zoned in?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I was definitely like yeah, like there's Hayden, there's Adam Like um, there's hayden, there's adam like um, you know, I was standing pretty close to like heather jackson.
Speaker 2:I was like holy shit, that's so cool. Like yeah, like all these people, and I'm like, oh my god, like this, like this is it because, like ladville, like there's big names, but with the lottery, like it's a little bit different. It's a little bit different, you know. Like not everyone who signs up gets in and I don't know. Like it has the historical, like born to run. It's popular but it's not it's not.
Speaker 1:It doesn't draw the crowd of like black canyon or like western states?
Speaker 2:does you know like some of these bigger, generally more competitive races?
Speaker 1:right. So gun goes off. Are you taking it out? Hot like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:you know, I mean I like we went out pretty hot. Um, there was certainly a large pack, I don't know, probably 40 or 50, 50 guys that went out like blazing fast and I was like okay, knowing yeah, they're probably not all gonna hang on and trying to stick to a game plan of like let's run my own race here. Like it sucks to let them go yeah but like dude, you gotta let them go so early, so early yeah, mile one of 60 why are we dropping sub six?
Speaker 1:yeah, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I was just like all right, let's, let's try and settle in and relax. And yeah, do my own thing now.
Speaker 1:The first 20 miles for the most part is kind of like downhill right yeah but it's not that easy, because I feel like the course had what it was wet, it was muddy, like. Do you want to go into that a little bit as far as like? Did you fall at all? Like, what was that like and what shoes did you use too?
Speaker 2:uh, easy question. I was wearing the hookah tactons great shoe, my go-to at this point. Um, but yeah, like the first eight or so miles were super muddy, it like that sucked, it was so sloppy and just like the feet are heavy oh yeah, was it like that muck where it like sticks to the bottom of your shoe? Yes, oh no, each, each foot was just like a weight dude.
Speaker 1:I have even more respect for you guys now because, like that's, I know what that's like to run it.
Speaker 2:That's terrible yeah, and it was like we were running mid six, like we're well under seven. Yeah, minute miles like cruising and it's like this sucks like yeah is this gonna like? Is this gonna come back to bite us?
Speaker 1:were you chatting with anybody? Like, were you guys? It was like, was the group talking at all? Or yeah, it's a little fast for for talking, but like, could you feel? Like, what was that like?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, we were. I was talking with a couple of guys that I was running, you know, running around and having a good time with you know just and just yeah, you know who's been here before, like whatever you know. Like, yeah, you know it'll dry out after we get over this next section or whatever. But yeah, I always try to. I always like to talk to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I feel like it's fun, you get to make make friends and it's like we're all here doing this thing, you know.
Speaker 1:It's like and it's still too early for the competitive side where moves are being made. But did you see early, like in the first 20 miles, like any? Because I know matt sidell took it out like a goddamn animal he was, he was, he was slinging man like this guy's running six sub six minute miles? Um, but like outside of that was everybody just like all right, we're gonna let this guy go or people chasing or I think there's a big group that went like, tried to go with yeah, um and hayden was a part of that pack and then yeah and a lot of those guys yeah um, I mean letting them go.
Speaker 2:Like honestly, they got out of eyesight pretty quickly. Oh, wow, okay, yeah, like once we got onto the trail. So it's like I'm sure they're blasting, but I don't really know where they are okay.
Speaker 2:So I wasn't sure how, like if you, because I feel like it's such a wide open course and like I feel and mentally I'm thinking you can see them, but I guess not I mean it is pretty wide open, but I think just the way that, like some of the hill, some of the hills, midway the trail was winding around it, I feel like for the, for the first section, there's a lot where okay, yeah, I couldn't actually okay, and also trying not to care right to an extent too.
Speaker 2:I'm like all right I don't want to get my own head about this. That's cool all right.
Speaker 1:So what's the first? Like what's bumblebee? Which one stage station is that?
Speaker 2:it's like midway right yeah, that's the like the mile 28 station. So it's like the first time you see your crew, okay and did you have a big crew?
Speaker 1:did you bring with you or? Uh, my mom came out okay, me Cool.
Speaker 2:She likes to come out for these races. Now that's awesome. You know she came out and helped at Leadville so she was my only crew that I had out there, so I met up with her there Super great. I mean, yeah, like she has so much fun out there, which I really like Like she, like she loves sitting and talking to like the other people there.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sure dude, I always love when parents come out and they're like like your biggest fan. Obviously they're like your biggest fan because they're your parent, but you know, and they're having a good time and they get to see, cause, like most people have no idea what this sport is.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like what are these? What are 62 miles through the desert right? Now yeah, I, I love it, it's. It's pretty cool. Uh, okay, so you get to bumblebee. Mom's there, mom's crew and you. How did you feel about 20 miles in?
Speaker 2:I felt pretty good. I was, I think, a little worried like I came in. You know I had, I had ideas on what I wanted to, or like what timing I wanted to come in. You know, to hit certain pacing um, and I came in like 15 minutes earlier than I thought I would, which I was like that's quick like shit I mean I was, I was refreshing, I was checking the whole thing.
Speaker 2:I'm watching you, dude, I knew where you were and so I was like, oh, like day, like okay, like wow, was not expecting that, was not expecting to run, yeah, the first 20 miles, that fast. Yeah, you know, we went through. I think I came in around 215. Wow, like through 20, which I don't know what that pace is, but like that's under seven I mean yeah, yeah, under seven through 20, it's pretty when you're running 60 miles like that's pretty quick okay, so we leave.
Speaker 1:Bumblebee, did you leave with anybody at this point? Were you hanging with anyone? Because I know the trail. It's kind of like single track and flowy right yeah so it's almost like one person in front of another. So it's not wide enough for people to like hang next to each other and chat. So you're kind of in your head at that point right, you're kind of in your head, and I was.
Speaker 2:I left by myself okay um, so I had like a couple miles where I was just running alone there, okay, which I don't know. You come out of bumblebee bumblebee and there's a climb there, so it's like I don't know. Okay, that's like this kind of sucks. Yeah, well, that's the thing it's got to be difficult.
Speaker 1:I know because the way I like, I like my running like I like a straight uphill and then I like a nice bommie down.
Speaker 2:Right, right, same Same.
Speaker 1:Whereas this is a a much I mean I've heard from every person that's run this race is it's there. It's sneaky technical in some sections and it's sneaky difficult in a lot of ways because there are a lot of climbs. Yeah Well hard, some hard climbs. Yeah, Do you want to get into that?
Speaker 2:Like as far as like occurring from flowy downhill and then you start actually getting into trail running. I think coming out of bumblebee is like the first time that you like really have a climb, okay, um, and where else? Certainly coming out of, uh, I think like deep canyon ranch was like the next crude aid station, right around mile 30, right right around the 50 K mark.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, what's this section? There was an aid station, I think it was like maybe 50 miles, something like that, where you do this like really funky, out and back. You'll kind of like do like this turnaround and then go back.
Speaker 2:So that's black Canyon city.
Speaker 1:So that's like 38, 38.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so you like come out of deep canyon ranch and you're on like some gravel road, okay, um, which is kind of nice, but like it's very rolly, it's like some fairly punchy climbs actually, um, and then get back on the single track and like drop down into the for one of the river crossings and then there's a pretty decent climb up, yeah, and then you drop down into black canyon city there, okay, and then come back out of black canyon city now, I think that's that river crossing is where rachel drake, I think, made her move to get in the first place correct, because she was right behind you, right she was right behind me, so that was later.
Speaker 2:Um, yes, that happened around mile what 48, okay? Um yeah, so I guess, coming out of like black canyon city, there, you climb up that little out and back section, you, you know you're seeing people and so I was like all right, sort of keeping track of how many people were in front of me that I that I was meeting when I was on my way into the aid station and then, you know, started checking out who's coming in behind me as I was running out.
Speaker 1:How did that feel mentally? Like were you like, did that give you any anxiety at all? You're like, oh, this guy's a little closer to me, or Uh.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there's anxiety, like it was definitely. I don't know, it was interesting to be able to. It's like there's some people here, like there's a big crowd. Yeah, like, keep it up. Um. Yeah, like let's, let's try not to let people pass you um, but yeah, like you get out of there, you drop down into one of the one of the river crossings, second to last one, and then, like then you start the climbing and like that just goes on and on.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, that's terrible oh, I was so over it, were you. Is it like runnable? Is it like bitch grade, like where you can just like it's a terrible word to use, but like like where it's, like it's like it's runnable, like definitely feels like it should be runnable.
Speaker 2:You're like I really want to hike this, but like it's not, you should be, it doesn't yeah, you should be running, okay, and like that's where you can start to see people.
Speaker 2:Like it thins out, there's a lot of switchbacking, like you can look back and see people. And so it's like, you see, like I could see the see the crowd behind me because I was running by myself, gotcha, and like people, you know, people picked up paces at the 50k point, which I didn't have so and I didn't really think about that in the moment, but like that made the crowd seem so much bigger, really, cause it's like I'm climbing up and you know there's a group of like 10 people that I see, which realistically is, yeah, like five racers, yeah, but I'm seeing 10, you know 10 bodies or whatever. Like don't let them pass you. Like that's a huge group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh dude, like that's a huge group. Yeah, oh dude, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that's kind of stress, I don't know. To me I'd be more, I'd be stressed out with that. Now, was that a purpose, like on purpose decision to not bring any pacers, or yeah, I mean it was purposeful.
Speaker 2:I felt like 60 miles like I could do without a pacer, and then I don't know. I didn't try to reach out to anyone, but like I was like, I don't know anyone in Arizona and so it felt like it'd be asking a lot to ask someone to be like hey, buy a plane ticket. Yeah, Follow me out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, but still cool, still cool. I mean, I think it's amazing that you ran it by yourself and I feel like there's you know from an aid station. Now did you sorry I keep jumping around from like I have so many questions um. So nutrition strategy same shit. We're doing gels and stoop waffles here. Is that what we're doing, gels and drink mix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, wow, that was the entirety. A little, I think, a little watermelon along the way, but I didn't even break out any waffles, so it was okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Shout out to what's your nutrition sponsor precision precision, precision. Your boy, there you go. Okay, so that course to me seemed very rocky and sneaky, technical in a lot of sections. Did that give you any problems with your feet at all? Do you have any issues or?
Speaker 2:I didn't think so. No, I know some people say it's technical. I don't. I didn't really think it was super technical myself. I mean, maybe just compared to what I'm used to. Yeah, we're used to colorado um, so yeah, in that aspect I didn't think it was too bad.
Speaker 1:Um, I mean, there's certainly rocks around and things like that, like it's not totally clear, but okay at what point did you start thinking about maybe I should start picking up the pace, like competitive wise did I? Did you want to start looking to like start hunting people closer to the end, or were you just kind of holding on for dear life?
Speaker 2:no, I I don't know if I ever consciously made like a huge like like let's go hunting. I think there's a lot of being chased, you know, coming that climb, like I was saying out of Black Canyon City, I was like, all right, let's make it a goal to not get past. You know, and that's like when the Rachel Drake and Becca Lindell caught up to me was like when we hit the aid station and I was like at that point I was, was like my goal had been like, all right, let's make the aid station before you get caught, like that, that's a good goal, okay, um, and then it only ended up being the two of them anyway, like they had broken away from the pack that had the larger pack that had been seen. Um, and so we all ran together then for I don't know a couple of miles up until that river crossing at like 48 really yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 1:oh?
Speaker 2:it's super cool. We were like they're awesome people oh yeah, we were like chatting and, like you know, uh, rachel had liam, yeah, pacing her. He was like live streaming the whole thing from his phone right, yeah like he had his phone out a ton and like he was like snack. I don't remember what he was eating, but he pulled something out to eat. Not, you know, I'm like behind him. I'm like, oh, dude, that smells good. He's like you can smell that. I was like, yeah, I want some.
Speaker 2:Did you chat with him at all, because he's like an oregon guy, yeah I would chat it a little bit yeah uh, I mean not super in depth at that point, but yeah, and then I mean, then we hit the river and yeah, rachel went, made her move and just disappeared.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, so you watched the move happen.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was like I was right there. I mean I was in the. Yeah, I was in the river when she that's so cool dude.
Speaker 1:It was like she like, not like tripped, but like she like Rachel like jump, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Can river and like super muddy and I guess I like having talked to rachel, having heard her talk about it, like she'd done some recon on that part of the course, and like knew the branch to grab, really to like get out without slipping, that's, that's fucking crazy dude, which is wild, yeah like what, uh, like that's what our sport is.
Speaker 1:Now you know like we're talking about, like you know, grabbing branches and what branch to grab and whatnot, and that right, that makes a difference between first and second place yeah, what did, what did help that I love it. The sport is so cool uh okay, so I did not know. I I thought you finished ahead of her, though didn't I?
Speaker 2:yeah, I caught up during the last couple miles. Okay, all right, that made sense, I wasn't sure what took part in the last 20 miles.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow Okay.
Speaker 2:So how did the race end? It was wild, like I left, you know, mile 51, mile 52, whatever that is, which is like the last crude aid station.
Speaker 2:Okay, and it's like all right, like I had a goal of going sub nine and I was pretty confident, like things go good, I could run 845 or an 846, like nice stoked, got there and I was like, okay, trying to do the math on, all right, how fast do you have to run? Like I, and I hit my split, like what I had thought to run 845, like dead on at that aid station so I was, you know, running out of there. I was again by myself. I think Becca got in and out faster than I did, so I was running by myself, caught up with a couple guys, then caught up with one other guy, and so him and I ran for a few miles together, uh, which was a huge help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it was like, you know, neither of us had pacers yeah, I feel like, yeah, at the end, like chatting up, like that must have been really, because you stopped thinking about where you're at.
Speaker 2:It's like you stop yeah, you stop thinking about where you're at and running together. It's like okay, even if I want to slow down. It's like I'm running with this dude like I'm, I want to slow down. It's like I'm running with this dude Like I'm not going to slow down, like we're, I'm going to keep it up so I can keep up with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, wow, and like you know him and I passed, uh, like Debo, like Dylan Bowman was out there pacing, yeah, oh, wow, yeah, so like we passed him, and then I ended up dropping the guy that I was running with there. Uh, I don't remember what mile would have been, but like right before the last sort of the last climb, um, you know, caught up to Becca at that point past her, and then, oh, wow, so you were really surging at the end of this race. Yeah, I was. I was moving at the end of the race. Um, yeah, made it into like the last aid station, which is like what 5k out, I think yeah more or less.
Speaker 2:You know I'm running through, I'm like I got three miles, I'm not gonna stop, yeah, and they're like do you want anything? I'm like no, I, I want to be done. I'm trying to meet the sun, because that was the thing with that with the, with the delays, I had one.
Speaker 2:I did have one in my bag. I didn't take it from my mom. At the last aid station I spaced it. It's like all right, I gotta like try to beat the light here. Yeah, um and yeah. Like that last 5k dude, I got really emotional yeah yeah, like that's never happened to me before like Like tears, like almost, yeah, I've cried in Rachel before.
Speaker 2:I think there were a few tears. Honestly, I kind of thought I was going to have a panic attack, like I got really proud and just like I don't know what it was. But I was like, holy shit, like this is, it's a big deal, dude, this is a big deal and I don't like I didn't have that at leadville, but I don't, yeah. And then you know you're on a little bit of a fire road there and get back onto some single track and I caught up to a guy like right there, and you know that once I got him on my side, so it's like all right, we're going back into hunting mode and like that was very much like all right, let's take this, like pass him, um. And then I could like hear voices up ahead. I'm like all right, like let's keep moving, like let's do this, and that was that was when I caught back up to like rachel, okay, and um, shoot, what's his name?
Speaker 1:leo, oh no, I don't know if he was pacing her at that time, I think it was was no, because taller I don't think taller was pacing no um, no one of the other run.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it was her and keely and then the guy that ended up finishing right in front of me was running with them. It's like I caught up to them and you know they're like asking like how far back is becca? You know, like, do we have to worry about her? And I was like, no, I think you guys, you guys should be good yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, dude, it's so cool to be like right at the front and like in the action of the women's race. Yeah, so I've gotten lucky with both, both races, yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause that happened at Leadville too.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right, dude who won Leadville this year too. Oh shit, wow, dude. So both leadville uh winners, like were, were there because jp was there as well. Yeah, wow, I didn't even think about that. That's pretty dope. Yeah, well, runnable race makes sense you know, it's like that style.
Speaker 1:so you finish 23rd overall, right, yeah, 23rd. And what was your time? 8, 46, yeah, 46, god damn dude, 8.46. God damn dude, that's amazing. Like in the like one of the most, if not the most competitive race ever assembled like ultra, I should say ever assembled on American soil. Yeah, how did you feel after that? Like pretty, pretty confident that felt that felt really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, knowing that it was how competitive of a race it had been like, yeah, that felt, that felt good.
Speaker 1:Nice to add to your little buckle collection you got now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You got two, yeah, all right. So you come off that and it's like, dude, how did it feel after it was over? Like I know how I had like I mean, everybody's a little bit different Like after seasons are over, I almost get like depressed. I'm like, well, what am I going to do? Like just go back to training all the time and I've got like another six or seven months before I race again. How did like that feel for you afterwards? Did you like was it? Was it almost like a comedown or cause it's a high, high to be on?
Speaker 2:It was definitely a high high to be on, Uh, but I don't, I don't think there's like a super dramatic come down, I think I like all right, the race is over. Um, that was kind of stoked to be able to get out and do more. Like you know, I like to ski and being where I'm at super accessible, Like I want to be out there. And when I like to ski I tend to like to ski stuff with con, with consequence you know, like there's that country ski.
Speaker 1:What kind of skin?
Speaker 2:do you do a little bit, but I mean mainly a resort. But you know when you're you're bombing, yeah, yeah and still skiing like challenging stuff at the resort, you know, like cliffs and rocks and air.
Speaker 1:So it's like.
Speaker 2:This is why you're a good downhill runner so it's like there's definitely serious injury risk still um skiing. So it's like I you know in the lead up to the race was minimizing that, like I'm probably, I did not ski nearly as much this year as I did last year okay so I was. I was kind of looking forward to yeah a little off season.
Speaker 2:A little off season and be able to, you know, do a little bit more of that. But I mean, like I just love running, so I'm like getting back into that, like racing is great, like I'm super competitive as a person, so it's like I love to get out there and Throw it out so it's like I love to get out there and see what I can do, but like I just, even if I couldn't race, like I would still run like just getting back out.
Speaker 1:there is so much fun, like yeah dude, I, I admire it because, yeah, I have I don't know man, maybe it's like my physiology or whatnot especially cause, like I do a lot of races like up high, and I, like last season, like I, I went through like a low key, like little depression after season was over, Like I was like kind of a bear to deal with and I just didn't, I don't know. Like I, just it was almost it's like a, it's almost like like a death of something because that season's over and it's like we're going to something different. But it's, it's a big blow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I different, but it's.
Speaker 1:it's a big blow yeah, I don't know, I come down if you will.
Speaker 2:No, I, I relate to that. I. I think I felt that a lot after leadville did you?
Speaker 1:I don't think I did so much after black canyon yeah, well, and I think too, which I think black canyon's like so early in the season too, that you have so much to look forward to. Yeah, you've got like a whole, like you've got everything you know, a whole season right. Um, let me ask you this so the difference between leadville and black canyon, obviously there's a huge mileage difference, a variance there in mileage. Um, which one beat you up more? I'm kind of wondering, like, did leadville kick your ass more or did black canyon?
Speaker 2:oh, I think leadville probably did just long, obviously longer yeah the longer. You know, like I said, like I had the hip and or not the hip, the ankle and and the knee thing, which, like I mean that could have happened during any run, so like not necessarily specific to Leadville, yeah, so I think in like that regard that beat me up a lot more than like Black Canyon did, but like Black Canyon was hard.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I think, like it's a net downhill race, and so it's like, oh, like it's fast, like it's not net downhill race, and so it's like, oh, like it's fast, like it's not hard, but like it's downhill and then it's uphill like take some damage yeah there was definitely some damage there in the quads like did you fall at all, or like no? No, I think I'm pretty sure I managed to stay upright. I rolled my ankle a couple times did, but yeah, I managed to stay on my feet.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's good. Did you roll it like earlier in the race or later, or was it like after, like immense fatigue? I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:No, it was earlier, really Like the first 20, I think I actually I think I rolled it like three times in like the first, like 15.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, nothing that made you not not bad. And then?
Speaker 2:like somewhere in like 22 or 23. I like I had a pretty bad one and that was I was like okay, like at that point contemplating, do I drop really? Yeah, I was like this is bad, like or it feels bad yeah you know, a couple miles later I was like okay, like come on out of it. It came up, came out of it. But I was like I was definitely limping like when it happened. Dude, well, I'm glad you didn't drop I'm kind of glad.
Speaker 1:Uh, okay, so we'll move on from. Uh, dude, I just want to say again congratulations, like what an amazing thing. And I think, eli taber, I think everybody is just so so proud of you, and just like what an accomplishment. I I am so excited for what's next. Uh, let's get into that. So you are going to be at the leadville marathon this year? Yep, and what's the goal, bro?
Speaker 2:the goal is to get a coin of leadville. Yeah, you know, top I. Honestly I don't actually know if it's top three or I mean no, like eight, I know age group gets the coin, but like goal would be to go out and yeah, certainly top three. Like, yeah, okay, I want that coin. I want to go back to Leadville.
Speaker 1:Let's go, baby, all right, all right, I'm excited. Got the hype going now. Hype trains rolling, um, okay, okay. So I would say that's the big goal. Now get you back into Leadville and you've got unfinished business there. It seems like what do you think you could run Now that you've done it, do you all right? So this is kind of a loaded question. Do you think it was just like you were just an ignorant kid that did it? And I don't mean this negatively, I just mean like, do you think like you did this? I mean, dude, what an effort. Okay, you go and get yourself 11th place. Do you think you could go deeper? Like one or two more, many more deeper? Like what do you think you got in you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think I think there's a lot more there. Okay, like I think so too, I think I could take a bunch like a significant chunk of time off that and okay, like compete yeah I want to compete, compete there all right, all right, I love it.
Speaker 1:Dude, okay, um, what else is in the season? What are we working on? What else?
Speaker 2:is in the season. Um, I mean, obviously, the whole getting the coin to go back to the 100 like sort of leaves some degree of uncertainty to the season. Yeah, um, but I mean certainly planning on that. Uh, you know, tossing around the idea of a couple different races pre-marathon, um, either, going back to the ram party, oh yeah you know that's a pretty fun time, or?
Speaker 2:I'll be there cheering you on either either that or going to uh the gopro games in bale. Okay, I, you know, I ran that last year and like that is, that is an electric atmosphere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited for that. This year I'll be a Pepe's doing the Pepe's face off.
Speaker 2:So much fun. So, that's so difficult, I can't wait. But like I mean that's such a huge crowd there cheering you on like incredible, I'm excited. Highly recommend.
Speaker 1:Recommend so don't take this negatively. I'm just curious you don't you don't have to answer this, but if, if leadville doesn't come to fruition, what's the backup plan for?
Speaker 2:like a long effort what's the backup plan for a long effort um considering run, rabbit run. At least trying to get in off the wait list um would probably be the first goal um you know, that's another race that I really want to. I could see you doing. Really want to run extremely well there.
Speaker 1:Well, what's the balance too? Like we've got you, dude, you have so much range, like you're so good at this long stuff and now you're really finding like your way in this long stuff. You've you got a hell of a lot of speed in the short stuff. Obviously, you're gonna try and keep a balance. You want to do one more than the other. Like what are you thinking? Like what, what do you like better?
Speaker 2:that's it's so difficult, uh, because I do like running long, uh, and yeah, I think I have some talent there, um, but it's fun to mix it up and go short and go fast. Yeah, I like to go fast, I like to ski fast, I like to run fast, like I like to run downhill fast I could tell I know I've witnessed it um, so yeah, it's, it's the balancing act of trying to. I mean that every athlete goes through right, trying to figure out your season.
Speaker 1:I mean I'd love to see you at a basin again, you know, just saying you know there's definitely some possibility there I've been thinking about that Okay, I think I mean it's a fun race.
Speaker 2:It is. I've had a blast both times I ran it, so like definitely would go back yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool, all right. Well, we'll keep that, keep the door open. The big question I have, um and you've alluded to it already and I am so excited for this answer Dude what is your like relationship with competition? Because I know you're competitive, I, you've got the dog and I love it. I love it Cause I, I'm competitive and I always look for that in people and and that's not to say like I, I have anything against people that aren't as competitive or don't like competition, like everybody's different and we all run our own races, but I'm curious to see what your your relationship is with it.
Speaker 2:I'm incredibly competitive, like always have been, always will be. My friends hate playing games with me like I don't know if you're familiar with katan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brutally competitive okay, um, I'm a risk guy, I like risk, I like risk. I could never get anyone to play with me growing up, oh really it took over the world I mean, I generally want, but it was more of a it took too long of a game.
Speaker 2:Okay, um no, yeah, I'm certainly am competitive with other people. I think I'm incredibly competitive with myself and like I mean that's a lot of why. Like I would like to go back to leadville, like I had a great season this year but a great race this past year, but like you're just getting started. I want to see what I can, what I can do, and I would have a little experience.
Speaker 1:What do you like? And that's that's what my question is, because I always like to see what I can, what I can do and how to have a little experience. What do you like? And that's that's what my question is, Cause I always like to see. I, first of all, I love the confidence. I love when people call their shots and I love when people you know, I love when people believe in themselves and you do believe in yourself and that will take you to such extraordinary highs if, if you so choose to follow that, and I'm so excited for where that goes. And what do you like? What do you think like? What do you? What do you think you could take this like? Do you want to be a professional in the sport?
Speaker 2:is what I'm asking you I would love to, okay, like, if I can get the opportunity, yeah, absolutely okay. Um, and if not, I want to, you know, see how close I can get, like, like I said, I love running, like, and I would run without the competition, like just being out in the mountains exploring 100, but yeah, like I mean I'm competitive, I would love to see what I can do. You know, continue to see what I can do against other people how old are you?
Speaker 1:you're only 28, right? I'm 25, you're 25 I don't know why I thought you were 20 dude. Oh my god, you've such a ceiling, you've. You don't even know what your prime is yet um, I love it, dude. I am so excited for you. Where does this competition like, this competitive drive comes from? Is it like a sibling thing? When did you have any siblings growing up?
Speaker 1:or like I mean like I yeah, I have a brother and we were competitive, but like me and my sister would kill each other to to for whoever's the better, kid oh yeah, certainly, growing up we were like that um I, I don't know where it comes from interesting.
Speaker 1:I'm always so interested in like picking people's brains on this because, like I had ace in here earlier and and ace is, I mean without a arguably one of the most talented athletes I've ever met in my entire life and he's just so laid back and relaxed and chill and I'm like whoa dude, like that. That's interesting to me to see, like different people's mind.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I, in fact, I admire that and how, just like, like content he is with that. But then you meet other people like yourself and myself that I'm like, no, like this is this is what I want to do and this is how I'm going to do it, you know. So everybody's a little bit different. I'm always interested to see, like, what makes people tick, like, get behind the brain a little bit and see, yeah, I don't, like I did. I could probably say the same thing about myself, like I had a sibling growing up.
Speaker 1:We were very competitive with one another and I don't know, you know and and you grow up playing well, you're a team sport guy too right, yeah, you play football, you're a tight end, so maybe that's it too, I don't know, whereas, like individual sports, maybe it's a little less yeah, I don't know because, like yeah, playing football growing up, like in high school, like I was competitive yeah but like I was average, like I knew I I knew that wasn't going anywhere and like I don't know, I was okay with that did you always have that speed?
Speaker 1:like when did you start like honing in that, like that downhill speed? Was that from skiing where?
Speaker 2:I don't know where that came from, dude. I think it's just from yeah liking to go fast like wow liking to go fast. Like yeah, Liking to go fast. And then, uh, do you want to say like high risk tolerance?
Speaker 1:I was going to say that's interesting Cause like not being afraid to go. Yeah, cause, like I I'll admit, like you know, I get a little funny with the ankles and just a little more careful a little bit today. I was like, oh okay, all right, um, all right, so let's pivot a little bit. I am very interested to see who your sub-alter mountain running goat is that's such a difficult question.
Speaker 2:There is no answer to it. I mean there is no answer to it. Uh, I mean, having listened to some of the early your other podcasts, like eli, like, okay, probably up there, yeah, I mean I mean, if he isn't already, he's probably gonna be yeah I think that would be like that might be. The asterisk is like how long has he been around?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, and the other thing question is is like and I, I love eli and I hope he's not listening to this. If he does, don't, don't change my running plan. Um, my thought is that he he look, he is to me and I've said this on previous podcasts like the bone nickel. In a lot of ways, I kind of like he's the only person I can look at and be like. He is just the most interesting prospect that has entered this sport in the last several years right by far most most interesting, most talented. And I'm going to say the same thing about tabor as well. Tabor is so incredibly talented and they're just like such good people. I love them both. Um, eli, to speak specifically on eli, I just I am so interested to see what he does in the ultra scene and as well as the sub ultra scene. Yeah, I think whatever he chooses to do, I think he could. He has good potential 100%.
Speaker 2:Agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if he's not, like he's already in the conversation and dude's been in the sport for two years. Right, let's. I'm so excited to see what happens. You know where this plays out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the ceiling happens. You know where this plays out. Yeah, I mean the ceiling is so high, agreed, I think. Yeah, if he's, if he's not like he's in the conversation, like, yeah, I mean it'd be like him, or what remy like yeah, I think, yeah, I think everybody's different.
Speaker 1:I think remy, I'll put up there remy's. I think remy's the best uphill or in the world yeah the sub ultra goat like the. You got to talk about dominance, so I look at, like the joe gray's, the marco de gasparis. Um, you know you could throw there's a lot of guys you could throw.
Speaker 1:you could throw killing in there because killing's rain, yeah, um you, and then you could talk about high altitude specialists. You know, like we've got um, you know, like local people that are just high altitude special there's, there's so many people you can name um, that's why I'm so always interested in asking the questions. I love to see what people, what's turned in those gears? Yeah, I don't hide my bias. It's definitely Joe and I think Eli as well, if he chooses, because that's the thing. Hopefully we'll have them on soon. That's a big question. I want to know where is the season, because now that they're with Terex, that opens up a lot of possibility with their schedules. You know, it's maybe it's not just the golden trail series now, it's other things yeah I know they're both going to be at this year.
Speaker 1:Um, I mean, I'm not a betting man, but if I was, you know how to put your money on right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's kind of what. Yeah, I like that definitely. I think those would be my top two. Joe Gray certainly tossed him in their top three for men's side goat. You know, like if you want to talk about women, like oh, we could talk about ladies for sure. Like I mean Grayson Murphy, like how many world titles does she have?
Speaker 1:I mean Two three, two or three, I think Something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Two, three, two or three, I think Something like that. Yeah, and she's been around the sport longer, which I think helps the goat aspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the female conversation is more interesting than the men's.
Speaker 2:I think it's a lot harder. For me it's way harder?
Speaker 1:I don't know Right now. I think we're in the most interesting and this is just Don't get me wrong, we could talk about the ultra scene, but the solve ultra scene I think we're just in one of the most interesting I don't even want to call it a renaissance, but the most interesting periods of the evolution of the sport. Like I said, we've got Tabor, world dominator. She's amazing, agreed. You've got Danny Marino. They're on the same team. Now, dude, I'm going to talk about someone else on their team, tori mccann. I think her last name's mccann. She's won occ. Yeah, um, ally mac, you know they're. And then, obviously, you put grayson murphy in the chat. You've got so many amazing females now in the sport that are, just, like I said, world beaters. Yeah, it's just so interesting to see.
Speaker 1:and then you got the europeans you know, right a few of the ones I threw in. There were europeans like tony mccann true, but yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this, but yeah, it's interesting to uh. I I don't even have a female goat yet right, like I don't know if I could name one I think there's like I love looking at people from the past too and there's a name I don't know if she lives near you, you know kim dobson is. She's a pike's peak marathon and ascent um like legend dude, I don't know how many times she's won she's.
Speaker 1:You could put her in in some sub-ultra conversations because of her dominance and pike's peak.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of females out there that just you know I think there's a lot more parody at the top of that conversation big time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't feel very qualified to even to even say who I think, yeah, and it's interesting too because I think I know more of the guys on the men on you know more of the people on the men's side, yeah, that I'm like friends with and are like aware of, um, whereas, like I feel like I know a lot less females to be able to you know like personally to say yeah, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think that's fair yeah, but I don't know well, that's a conversation that I want to like get more further in in the podcast and more podcasts in the future is you know how? Always have the goat debate and get that conversation rolling Um dude who inspires you.
Speaker 2:Who inspires me? That's a good question. Um, I think the people that I, you know, that I work with, inspire me. You know, coworkers, clients. There's a lot of inspiration on that side. Um, you know, certainly on the job side, um, you know, in sport it's a tough question. Uh, I think there's a lot of people that inspire me, and so it's hard to single out yeah you know one, one particular person interesting, um, yeah, cool it's, I don't know, I know it's, you know no I have like a single, you know a nice answer, but or like an individual person or group, but there's just so many people out there that I take inspiration from.
Speaker 2:I think, um, okay, yeah what's your take on bigfoot? What's my take on Bigfoot? What's my take on Bigfoot?
Speaker 1:You haven't met him yet.
Speaker 2:I haven't met him, neither have I, you know, I don't know Like there's a lot out there that we haven't seen.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're from like up there in Minnesota bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You ever like seen any weird shit? I mean, I've seen any weird shit.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've definitely seen weird shit, but it's like with how much surveillance and things, it's like if there is a bigfoot out there, like bigfoot would be so big. You know, there's like a large individual like nine foot tall man you would. You would assume that we would have seen.
Speaker 1:Seen him, yeah, but then, like there's also just so much out there that we haven't explored that, it's like hard to rule, rule it out dude, I I'm on the first podcast I had sean rimmer on and he, he like knows a guy who swears he's seen seen him in like colorado springs smoking some good shit. Dude, I don't know I don't know what's your take I, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, as a kid I've always been infatuated with this, like when I was a child, like, and even through now. Every now and then I'll pan on the history channel and it's always watching, like looking for sasquatch. You already know what the outcome is gonna be they never find them but, like people get rocks thrown and you wonder like, is what is this?
Speaker 1:bullshit? Bullshit, and probably is, I don't know. I would love, from a scientific perspective I mean, the fact that there could be a remnant version of Gigantopithecus running around. At this point it's probably nil. I would say the probability is nil. Maybe in the Pacific Northwest, definitely not Colorado. Colorado is too, I I feel like, too populated, but like you get back there in the pnw like upstate washington and you just get like, especially through the cascades and everything is so remote and there's just not a lot of people, I mean it's possible no one's seen anybody running around. You know, I don't know. I think the alien probability is much higher. I agree. What's your take on the aliens?
Speaker 2:I think there's probably life out there. Okay, I mean the idea of little green man.
Speaker 1:Could be there.
Speaker 2:I don't know Could be there, whether you know. Is there alien life that's alive at the same time as us and also like is an intelligent life?
Speaker 1:Like that's the question. Well, the wild thing to me is that I mean you're, you're a really smart guy, so you get this like what's what? You're? Look, what we're looking at when we look up the stars at night is just it's. It's so far in the past that when you think about space-time and you think I mean this is deep, but like, when you think about space-time like that's is deep, but when you think about space-time, that's so far in the past that it's already changed it's not real in a lot of ways, if you think, well, it's real, but it's not it's in the past. So my thought on it is like if something is out there, it's either figured out, it's the interdimensional aspect in my theory, my, you know that's what I think something with dimensions, yeah, where they figured out how to bend space and time to get, to get over here and hang out with us. Either that or it's us dude. You know all the stuff people keep saying.
Speaker 1:I mean it's like in the mainstream now yeah you know could be us, we could have like a underground I hope this podcast doesn't get pulled for this but like some underground, like Lockheed, fucking shit going on, who knows, man, yeah, I don't know. So, yeah, you want to plug your social media? Have we been doing this for an hour? This is the longest podcast I've ever done, by the way, really, just rolling them back. Do you want to plug your, your social media?
Speaker 2:just rolling them back. Uh, you want to plug your your social media? Yeah, um, on instagram at scrabaruns um, it's a good handle, thank you yeah uh, I guess technically the same handle for threads I guess I'm on. I don't post that very often. I'm way more photo oriented. Okay that I am text oriented, but I hate reels and text.
Speaker 1:I just nice cut, you know proper photo.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, Instagram is definitely what I'm on the most.
Speaker 1:Okay, guys, check them out. Look up, jacob. This was an amazing dude.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having or thank you for having me do.
Speaker 1:Uh, all right, everybody, jacob Scraba. So what'd you guys think I told you Jacob was a good dude, like, what a great recording. I left this podcast and just just so blown away by all those incredible accomplishments and, like I said, this guy's ceiling is so high. I'm so excited for his future. Just want to give a quick shout out, want to give some plugs. You guys can find him and please go ahead and find him on Instagram and give him a follow. His name is Scraba S-K-R-A-B-A. Dot runs on Instagram. That's his Instagram handle. You can also Google Jacob J-A-C-O-B Scraba and you'll be able to find that handle as well. So check him out, um, and you'll be able to find that handle as well. So check him out, guys. Send them some messages. Let him know that you guys enjoyed this episode and what you thought. Um, yeah, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to support this episode.
Speaker 1:Um, again, let's go ahead and, uh, give a follow to Jacob. Um. Second, secondly, uh, brands any brands out there. Um, jacob is currently a free agent. So if you guys are interested in someone whose stock is absolutely on the rise, go ahead and look him up, send him an email, give him a call. Yeah, we got to get this guy off the free agency market. That's our plan. So, guys, until the next one. Thank you so much for listening and following along. Until next time, the steep stuff podcast. Thank you.