Ever wondered what it takes to keep your running shoes pounding the pavement year after year? Join us as Jeff Wilson, the Colorado Springs running maestro, shares his journey from competitive runner to strength training advocate, and how he balances both with a thriving personal training business. We also take a nostalgic trip through Michigan sports – the triumphs, the heartaches, and everything in between.
This podcast isn't just about the solo sprints; it's a collective sprint through the importance of strength training, debunking the myths holding many runners back. Jeff's insights into the evolution of wellness culture and its nuanced implications for runners at various life stages resonate with anyone looking to go the distance. We get personal, too, with discussions on dietary adjustments, testosterone deficiencies, and how these hurdles can reshape an athlete's trajectory. It's a candid look at the interplay between physical and mental wellbeing that underscores the longevity of a runner's career.
As we cross the finish line of this episode, we reflect on the profound influence a supportive community and tailored training have on an athlete, novice or expert. From the nitty-gritty of hybrid training to the philosophical musings on aging and athletics, this conversation with Jeff Wilson is more than just a run through the park. It's a deep dive into how we can adapt, overcome, and continue to set personal records in running and life. So whether you're lacing up for your first mile or your thousandth, this episode promises to fuel your fire and keep your legs moving forward.
Jeff Wilson, IG - @coachjeffwilson
Jeff's Personal Training Business - totalbodyrunning.com
Ever wondered what it takes to keep your running shoes pounding the pavement year after year? Join us as Jeff Wilson, the Colorado Springs running maestro, shares his journey from competitive runner to strength training advocate, and how he balances both with a thriving personal training business. We also take a nostalgic trip through Michigan sports – the triumphs, the heartaches, and everything in between.
This podcast isn't just about the solo sprints; it's a collective sprint through the importance of strength training, debunking the myths holding many runners back. Jeff's insights into the evolution of wellness culture and its nuanced implications for runners at various life stages resonate with anyone looking to go the distance. We get personal, too, with discussions on dietary adjustments, testosterone deficiencies, and how these hurdles can reshape an athlete's trajectory. It's a candid look at the interplay between physical and mental wellbeing that underscores the longevity of a runner's career.
As we cross the finish line of this episode, we reflect on the profound influence a supportive community and tailored training have on an athlete, novice or expert. From the nitty-gritty of hybrid training to the philosophical musings on aging and athletics, this conversation with Jeff Wilson is more than just a run through the park. It's a deep dive into how we can adapt, overcome, and continue to set personal records in running and life. So whether you're lacing up for your first mile or your thousandth, this episode promises to fuel your fire and keep your legs moving forward.
Jeff Wilson, IG - @coachjeffwilson
Jeff's Personal Training Business - totalbodyrunning.com
Hey guys, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we've got a banger of an episode for you. In episode six, I'm really excited to have on Jeff Wilson. Jeff Wilson, otherwise known as the Colorado Springs running guy, according to his Instagram, is the cross country strength and conditioning coach at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, and he also owns a personal training business in the greater Colorado Springs area. The dude is an absolute encyclopedia of knowledge and he also owns a personal training business in the greater Colorado Springs area. The dude is an absolute encyclopedia of knowledge and we had a really interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:I think this was one of the longest podcasts I've had so far. So we really got into some really fun nuts and bolts about running, about movement, about mobility, and we also really dove deep into Jeff's personal story as well and his journey that he's been on thus far. Give it up. I hope you guys give it up for this one. Hope you guys really enjoy this episode, jeff Wilson. It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live.
Speaker 1:Kind of like you know, just build up from there. Yeah, so you training for anything these days, or you just uh, so right now I'm doing track races, okay.
Speaker 2:Uh, I just did the usatf masters national meet in chicago, okay, and I did the 800 damn son so it's kind of funny because in july I'll do a 50k.
Speaker 2:What are you racing then? What the the pikes peak? One one, uh. And I'll do the ascent for the third time in a row. Okay, this year too. And I've done two marathons. They've both been in the past like year and a half, but, uh, I like doing track season now that I'm healthy again. That's I've. I've got a interesting running story, but yeah all right, well, we'll get into it.
Speaker 1:Dude, we're live. Everybody, jeff on the podcast. Nice to meet you, uh, thanks for coming on, yeah man, do you want to introduce yourself and tell the world who you are? Well, actually the day of the race we were just talking about July 27th.
Speaker 2:So, my 11th anniversary. Your anniversary will be the when I'm running a 50 K, so that's fun. Um, let's see. I moved here from Michigan. I went to Saginaw Valley state for undergrad there Okay, From 2006 to 2011. I grew up in Livonia, which probably will mean nothing to people listening. Dude, I know where Livonia is, man. Oh yeah, I guess you'll remember, gosh, what is that? 45 minutes West of Detroit, nice area, but grew up loving Michigan sports, detroit sports. Hey, the Lions actually had a season for once. Are you a Michigan?
Speaker 1:fan yeah, okay, big Michigan fan Go blue, go blue. Yeah, go blue. Yeah, I'm excited, dude. This was the year man. We finally got over the hump, made it to the mountaintop and we'll see where things go from here, but finally I know.
Speaker 2:I'm excited. I'm excited we just got back to there it. It would have been disappointing if Harbaugh left, yeah, and let's say if we'd gone to the championship game, but at the same time we finally got back to here, yeah. And I'd say long story short. I've been bummed about how it's basically been Ohio State and Michigan, for I mean, yeah, penn State dribbles in there a little bit and a couple teams have a season or two, but you look at the ACC and the SEC and all that stuff and it's just like gosh, like we can't just couldn't get over the hump.
Speaker 1:I mean, was it?
Speaker 2:2013 was ohio state, or 2015 or something like that, and then 97 it's been a while, and you know, big 10, the big 10 is consistently competitive, if you will like you said you got penn state in the mix and now it's going to be crazy with oregon and washington in the mix.
Speaker 1:That's true, but I forgot about that. But man, fuck ohio state. I'm so happy. I'm so happy we did it and we yes, we got it finally got over the hump yeah, but now basketball took a hit yeah, you know, dude, I'm excited for the new coach, though the dusty dusty may. So. He's from my alma mater, fau, really so I. So I went to undergrad at FAU and it's kind of wild to think that anybody I mean not to shit on FAU, but when I was there we were a small Sunbelt school right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so barely a D1 institution and limited budget and it's kind of wild to think now that he took that school and got to the NCAA tournament twice. That is wild. So the fact that you're like he's going to go to Michigan now with a giant budget, he's going to get all kinds of recruits.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for it. Well, you know, I'll be honest, I don't know how I missed that. I mean, I guess I've just been paying attention to March madness. You know what my fiance's brother is obsessed.
Speaker 1:He went toigan okay, shout out to joey and he sends me. I mean, I must get five updates a day from from what's going on between mgo blog and everything like. He's sending me all kinds of swanky wolverine stuff and yeah, so he keeps me. He keeps me in the know and he's also giving me updates on like what's going on with like football recruiting and stuff like that right um, yeah, it's, it's, um, yeah, he keeps me, keeps me updated, to say the least, so so yeah, yeah, michigan sports, all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Red wings are back. I love that stuff. I'm a big hockey fan, oh. So I grew up playing hockey, okay, okay. And then I started running in seventh grade my dad was a runner, sweet. Uh. I started sprinting. Actually, I mean, the first thing I did was cross country but I like and I liked it. I will say liked it but I loved the hundred and the 400. And I wouldn't say I was like phenomenal at it, but I mean, middle school I, I split 12, five and a hundred and you know, went close to 60 flat. So I thought that's where I was going. And then I, we switched schools, that's when we moved to a South lion and it was very distance heavy program and I just immediately went to the mile. And then now, looking back and all the training knowledge, I know I wish I would have had a little different influence in the uh like 400, 800 category. Yeah, you know, because I definitely did.
Speaker 2:You compete at the mile for a while, or yeah, I mean, it was basically my like, I did the 800, but not like trained gotcha for and you know how high school like it's just a lot of short stuff, it's a lot of short speed and you race a boatload and I probably I mean dude, I don't know how many events I ran in high school, but there was so many three, four event days. Jesus, you know where it was. Just like I mean, it's you're young, so it's part of your training, but at the same time I wish I would have known what I know today. Right, and because when I went to a school at Saginaw Valley, my training gosh, the team was really good, but we had no direction for two years and before that, and our team was still one of the top teams in the nation, we just ran hard, okay. So I came in from a good high school program but I needed I was one of those guys I needed the coach relationship and stuff.
Speaker 2:And it just we didn't have that. So I kind of got a little bit lost and some of my classmates just took off because they had nothing in high school, it seems like, yeah, some guys catch on and it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's really it's so interesting to me because you see a lot of athletes come in. I think, um, like adam peterman's, a great example. Are you aware of who adam is? I think so right for the buffs, for in colorado. His back story is very interesting. I can't remember if he was steeplechaser. I can't remember what he specifically did. He kind of got lost in the mix. I mean, granted, the buffs are one of the best d1 programs in the world or in the country. Sorry, kind of got lost in the mix, comes out, walks into the ultra world and just is a world beater, right, oh right, you know. So it's just interesting to me how so much talent goes into the NCAA system and what people. So you know especially how that translates into the trail world and how people kind of come out.
Speaker 1:Some people flourish and some people you know, kind of sink in a lot of ways, right, right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I guess, to finish, more about me, I, when I moved out here, I moved to start coaching with the men's team at UCCS, yep so this is my finishing 11th year and started. That was basically started right away there and I went to grad school in the sports medicine and strength conditioning program and that lasted till August 2015. And I wasn't sure if I was going to stay here or not. But then they offered me to do an assistant, um, like past the graduate assistant level and stuff. They offered me a position then and then I just was trying to piece together my career, okay, and then eventually personal training started. Basically, I kind of just present itself more. I didn't think I'd ever do that, but I knew I would run coach and that was the original goal. Okay was to college coach. But then I realized I didn't want to leave here and I still at the time had a lot of personal running pursuits. But, uh, due to some history which, uh, we may or may not talk about, yeah, we can get into it.
Speaker 2:I was fighting an unhealthy body pretty much from 24 to, I would argue, till a couple years ago. Do you want to?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. I mean, I kind of read about it on your website and stuff like that? Oh, did you, okay, yeah yeah, yeah, and it's really interesting to me. So let's, let's, let's. We'll finish your backstory and then we'll dive into it. I think it's important. I think it's really interesting because I think a lot of people are battling with autoimmune diseases and things like that, so it's something definitely interesting to get into uh.
Speaker 2:So I get the last like couple things I'd say, and I think the rest will kind of come naturally yeah, yeah I because I wanted to run coach.
Speaker 2:And then I, I like, I, I like I guess I would say I kind of diverted and I was like, okay, I don't want to move cities. And I didn't even really like, look at his, oh, I'll just wait for the head coach to leave. You know, we've been working together this whole time. I don't see him leaving for a long time at all. I just like, all right, I like doing the strength training stuff and that's. I basically started that here and then I was like, okay, I can do that while building my own life. And then that's basically what's happened. So now my goal with runners is to teach people that strength training is necessary for performance as well as, then, longevity and health.
Speaker 2:And I think often it's especially runners. We get so into our heads and it's been so. There's I don't know, gosh, how many decades since maybe the 70s, when it started to boom there really wasn't much knowledge of any kind understandable. But even by the 90s, I mean, gosh, you had like oregon's team and like cu's team and a few others and stuff that kind of lifted, but it wasn't a thing, and it wasn't even really a thing in general. Wellness to a degree, unless you're bodybuilded had a performance focus, maybe happened to like it, but like women, I mean, they were just, you know they were doing Jane Fonda stuff, you know. So there wasn't like lifting weights was like Ooh, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:You know, and even women's sports. I mean that's. I mean gosh, the last 20 years, holy crap.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where they've come from. So, now that that it now it's more like knowledge or there's more knowledge about hey, this is probably I should probably do something here. But there's still so many myths in people's heads. Like, if you just listen to like 10 runners on different runs and you just bring up the topic, it's kind of funny if you just listen to their responses. And I don't mean that judgmentally, it's just the way that we kind of naturally talk ourselves out of strength training. And it's like, if you really love running, like I personally, would like to do it until I'm dead, even if it's minimal, but I would also, and more importantly, would like to move well and feel good, you know. And it's like, yeah, sure I could have a heart attack tomorrow or I could lose a leg or like crazy stuff, but I would. I, you know, outside of the anomalies, I just would like to be healthy and feel good. And once I started strength training a few years ago, then I realized that that was part of what I needed to do.
Speaker 2:And then you just read all the books, even Steve Magnus. I love his stuff. Yeah, smart as a whip, it's smart, one of the smartest guys out there in the in the running industry, if I and I don't know if he's evolved and I haven't, if I missed something the last couple of years. But even in his book, um, the science of running, you get to the strength training section. I think it's like chapter 16 or something, and it's like all this like good stuff on power production, this, that and the other, and then you get to the actual application and it's like, ah, just don't really worry about upper body, you know, just do power stuff, like I, especially with how much he had, and I don't mean this like no, no not that he would necessarily hear this podcast.
Speaker 2:But like I don't mean this to like sound like.
Speaker 2:Steve, if you're out there, steve if you ever hear this, I love you. Like you actually have impacted my, uh, my knowledge by a large amount. But with that said it, just I find it funny when you think about how the body works, just generally speaking, top to bottom, and then how it works together running-wise. There's so many things we could say to that and we probably don't even need to get into that, but I just always saw these loopholes where I'm like so why are legs the only thing that's important? I understand it's more important, but probably not by as much of a percentage as we think. Right like it's not like 80 20, in my opinion at least, because I mean, listen, I I'm funny like that.
Speaker 1:So I, I I'll be honest with you, I am of the camp of I do a lot more legs than I do upper body, but that's just just because, like, and it's, it's funny that way, cause it's as a trail runner and as a quote unquote, semi elite trail runner, like I feel like I don't. I, how do I say this? In high school I lifted a bunch a ton and I'm built like a wrestler. If you were to see me you would say that kid's not really a runner, he's probably a wrestler. He probably played high school football or something like that.
Speaker 1:Right, so, that's why I don't touch upper body. A lot of times it's because, genetics, I already have a larger muscle mass in my shoulders and chest and I'm like a little bit of a bigger dude. So for me, I want, I'm trying to, I try to shrink that as much as possible. Don't feed those muscles of you know lower body stuff. I work with a strength and conditioning coach.
Speaker 2:And oh, cool yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, well, you know, sean Rimmer, yeah, I work with Sean and I've also worked. You know, I work with uh Jimmy. Picard as well from uh, salt Lake. But yeah, man and I, I, I don't know, I just felt like I never needed to feed that upper body because I don't want to be any bigger. You know, I think of a body weight ratio, weight ratio for running uphill and stuff like that, and I try to stay light, as light as possible.
Speaker 2:Do you gain muscle weight easily, very easily, yeah, yeah, so that this would be a great example and not just to say it, just to say it. But I I know enough people, whether I worked with them, or just personal examples, especially as running is boomed and trail running too. Ironically, like examples, especially as running is boomed and trail running too. Ironically, like you're not the first person to tell me that they had a different background and then trail running like just lit a fire under them. Yeah, yeah, and they have a bit that not more naturally bigger upper body. Because of that came from exports.
Speaker 1:Technically, a soccer background in high school okay, that's kind of what I, what I did. Uh, that was like my, my primary sport, but, yeah, high school football as well.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry yeah, no, no, no, worries, no worries. But yeah, so I can understand that. I think there's always a small percentage of people where, both generally speaking, for that person and cyclically throughout different seasons, where that makes sense 47 and 51 and it's like you probably, you probably could use full body, full body emphasis whether they're doing right marathons, a set and the other hell yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I just I saw all those loopholes and just all these like missing links, even like within. So that's why I use steve magnus as an example one, because he touched on just about everything. If you like really read his stuff. But there's, even while he's touching on it and saying, yes, strength training is good, there's still this like, well, but kind of don't worry about that. And if you think about who he's working with, I think that's a lot of the big things too. It's going to be people that are. I mean, he has post-college people trying to make it to the trials, all that kind of stuff. And it's like you're, I'm six feet, 158 pounds, and when I'm, like when I was in my top like college fitness, like breaking 15 and five and stuff like that, I mean I was 145 pounds. Okay, that's like who he's. That's the kind of like weight ratios he's working with and it's like anyway, I could go on all day about that.
Speaker 2:It's interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, all right, I'm go on all day about that. It's interesting, all right, I'm trying to think of where we dive in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember either. Where do we want to go?
Speaker 1:All right, let's start simple. How did you end up in Colorado Springs? Was it specifically for the job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wanted to go to grad school. Well, I should say it this way I wanted to start coaching and I didn't want to go to high school. Now, I'm not opposed to doing that at this point, but I still would rather do strength coaching and off-season stuff for high schoolers. I don't have too much of an interest to do the lengthiness of the meets. I love the college scene, but I like doing my own thing, okay, and so I think I found my own little niche.
Speaker 1:I feel like, yeah, you do have this, like you've got the business as well. So the primary thing is the business and you have this amazing role as a strength and conditioning coach. So how is that stressful and difficult to balance both, or how is that?
Speaker 2:It has been at times, especially during like 2020 chunks and stuff. Like I was at the time I was focusing on paying off my student loan debt, okay, uh, which I don't know if you found that when you were looking things up, but if my facebook it was like littered with all that stuff, I was the guy, the dave ramsey dude, that, like I was putting down to the cent, like here, I paid off $2,017.14 last month, you know, and I, literally I paid off 89K in 41 months. Fuck yeah, dude, good for you, man, thank you, and so that was like a huge, that was a huge focus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like that's a feat in itself, man.
Speaker 2:That was an ascent right there. That was a mountain to climb. But while I was doing that, the business was doing well. But then 2020 hit, and so budgeting at the school change we're still recovering from that Enrollment's gone down this, that and the other. So, like there was I mean, heck, there was a semester I didn't even get paid, wow, by them or by UCCS, and I want to say that was fall of 2020 to theoretically make sense.
Speaker 2:But uh, also having a personal training business during that time was very difficult. I have a Prius. I put 550 ish pounds of random weight in my car and I was driving around town and seeing clients in parks taking like a few weights inside somebody's home and then a boatload of zoom sessions, and so that was really hard. And the transition, I would say, coming back into trying to be normal with the team, it's like, yeah, I'd been there for for seven years, so I had a really good rapport and all that stuff, but it was it was hard to balance for a bit because it was like all right, do I keep doing this? Yeah, our budget's really low, there's a lot of guys on the team, but I always, every time I thought I got to like am I gonna do this? Am I gonna leave? I'd go to the next practice and within like 13 seconds they're making me laugh, yeah you know they're college kids, man it's.
Speaker 2:You know I'm having a good time and I'm like, okay, when I get married, when I get married, that's right, that's that's when I'll leave, you know, and I don't even know if I'll do that, because now I'm like I feel like I'm on autopilot in a lot of ways, like I walk in, I know what I want to do. The only thing I really feel like I want to do left is like leave a legacy. Yeah, so me and a few of the guys are starting to make videos and we'll just have a massive like library of stuff though that's amazing and just explain to them. If I like died tomorrow and you don't want to hire somebody new, there you go.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Now I don't know. I think about strength and conditioning coaches and I don't know like, just because the, the probably the closest college sport that I follow really intently, is probably like college football, and I just think of like how exciting of a job it it appears to be like I don't know like my favorite, one of my favorite coaches, and this is going a deep dive. But coach Feld, who is the university of Miami strength and conditioning coach Okay, ago a deep dive. But coach feld, who is the university of miami strength and conditioning coach okay, fucking savage. He just does this like all kinds of yeah, I mean, it's just amazing how he just hypes up the team, gets them prepared. Can you dive a little bit into like a what a a week in a life is probably like strength and conditioning wise for, specifically for cross country, yeah, for what these guys are going through, like what kind of lifts you're looking at, schedule-wise things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So most of our guys we have a pretty low-volume program relative to. We're in a very competitive conference like Adams State, western State and all of them, I would say our average guys are probably like 70-ish miles a week. Okay, some of that does include like the 800 guys in the set and the other, but you have only a handful that really dip into the like 90, a hundred range because of how much muscular endurance are doing.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge believer on a lot of heavy lifting and because I'm not the head coach uh, mark has always wanted me to kind of we kind of like taper during every meet week. Okay. So like we basically go every Saturday, sunday or Wednesday and then either Saturday Sunday Said that wrong and like this weekend that we'll race tomorrow and then we'll lift Sunday and then they race again next week, and so the Wednesday I just do a bunch of power, power work with med balls, a lot of ladder drills and stuff like that. So, and it's at this point in the season shoot, we're like I mean, they just need to be doing straight up power at this point, right. But so I try to take a very basic approach for the summer, even though I'm not with them, which really stinks like. I want this massive foundation right and it is just flipping a coin with each kid yeah, you don't know if they're gonna keep like, hey, what'd you do?
Speaker 2:you know like and I've gotten more blunt in the last couple years where I'm just like I'm not gonna be mad at you, but this will help me if you just tell me you did nothing, or you like did the body weight program, like, so I always had that in the background, so it's was just like all right, if you are camping, just do this. You know, um, and it's funny, I still some kids seem like I'm going to like crack down on them and you can tell sometimes they're lying and they're just like.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I did like you know, I didn't lift like every time and stuff, and it's like, all right, let's, let's do, let's do a squat and deadlift and see. But uh, thankfully, uh to what we were saying earlier, high schools are doing lifting more. So we're coming in with more with with more athletes. When I started 11 years ago, I mean three quarters of the guys that came in, even if we only had like six or seven dudes, our freshmen, some of them never touched a weight, yeah, roll the dice, didn't do any, didn't do any other sports. And some of these kids are coming in with, like you know, at least it's division two university and like four, 15 mile and you know and stuff like that. It's not every kid, but I mean gosh, we have a bunch of a bunch of freshmen that are running like 15, 10.
Speaker 2:now you know, it's like geez, like wow, that was like that.
Speaker 2:Took my college career almost to do that.
Speaker 2:But anyway to, to finish your question, assuming I'm in a good spot within at least four weeks of the start of cross season, which usually I am with the returners, I take a pretty large block of heavy lifting because the coach likes to taper them so many times and even with like six big cross country meets, there's only like 15 ish weeks before they hit nationals.
Speaker 2:And now that we're making nationals every year it gives me two extra weeks to to like kind of taper them later and if they're not on the national squad they just do like a Thanksgiving race anyway. So it kind of started to work pretty well. But I I'm really big on getting to like the higher percentage, at least over 80 for most of the time. Okay, unless a kid is freshman, sophomore and is just a string bean, I will literally like I've used some kids as like a test dummy, like six, seven years ago, and and even like mark will be like hey, like just this guy needs to put on some weight yeah, you know like he's he's going to be running 80 miles in a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that used to be really underrated, like it used to be. Like, obviously, like skinnier, lower weight was always better, you would think.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it's like you know to some what's the durability to some degree but it's like now you're starting to think, okay, like you want to be healthy three years from now exactly, and once in a while you'll just get the anomaly kid. That doesn't matter, you could do that, you could, you could tell him to run 120 miles a week or 40, and he's still an all-american. Uh, but most kids aren't like that. I wasn't like that. I needed to be like dialed in all the time. Um, so anyway, I do that for most of the season and then I I do a pretty simple transition into power work. Okay, but I still keep the squat dead bench main lifts in their overhead press.
Speaker 1:They love pull-ups, so like, I just make sure do a lot of lunges and stuff like that, yeah lunges.
Speaker 2:I'd say in the beginning half the season it's more step up, side step ups, um, even some step downs, and then I try to then transition it for only a little bit of time with the with the lunges, because they just one, they hate them. That's why I was curious bit of time with the with the lunges, because they just one, they hate them that's why I was curious and I hate them and like side lunges.
Speaker 2:Every time I put it on the board they're like oh, damn it you know, and like there's that like we used to have this whiteboard in the old weight room and they would like stand behind me like while as I'm writing and stuff, and then, like there'd be times where I'd kind of notice him, I'd like start writing side lunges or something like oh shit, I'm like I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding, thank God, they're like dude, my legs are trashed. Um, but I try to keep those low volume because it's like I used to be more overzealous. It was like I got to get all these things in and it was like no, the main purpose. And then, once we get into the power training, we're still doing the squat and dead and even the bench, but I'm trying to have the speed of the bar movement increase, volume or not volume? Well, yeah, volume goes down a little bit and then the intensity skyrockets and then I just base it off. Okay, so if let's say there's like a, a guy that's like seventh, eighth on the team and he's trying to make it, I'll take that into account. If, especially if they're communicating with me, like right now we have 35 guys there's times I walk in and I don't remember everything.
Speaker 2:And a kid told me something three weeks ago and I say, hey, remind me yeah it's a lot to keep track when it gets to this point and I was like, hey, let me know. You said you're fatigued, stressing you out. The kids are freshmen. He's never done a 10K in his entire life, you know, and he's like because we had a, we had a freshman on our national team and he was really good this year. So like we've had people like that and it's like all right. I'll sometimes pull a kid aside and say do not do these two exercises, do two less of all these, cause I want you to like walk out of here and feel fresher, feel better. Yeah, instead of like sitting here and thinking here's this like thing that I need everybody to do and put them all into a box. That took me probably like five years, okay, before I got like the anal part of it out, like oh, it's got to be exactly what my professors and I used to talk about.
Speaker 2:You know it's like geez, like come on very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now let me ask you this um, so we talked a lot about power, but what about, like the tendon systems, like plyo and stuff like that? Do you have them doing a lot of that as well? Or wait, say what was the last part like plyo, like?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's part of the the last phase. Like I start introducing it in the transition to the two phases. I'll have them do um, oh, um, oh, my God, I'm completely forgetting the name right now, but I'll have them do most, most everything I do is supersets, okay, and so I'll start transitioning from stuff that they needed earlier in the season, like they'll do a squat and then, like especially the incoming guys or guys that are like having glute issues, I'll have them do a bunch of like clamshells, lateral walks, all that stuff, and I'll change that second exercise to like a squat jump and have them. I don't know, I never forget this phrase. I can't think of what that strength conditioning phrase is called. But anyway, not compound lifting, but it's something else.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 2:I'll transition them there. So it's like you go from me from a strength movement to a power movement and I'll only do one or two of those, but I'll do more ladder stuff before they start the workout and I'll have them start doing more stuff like Pogo's and like every other lift or so. We'll do tuck jumps and we'll just do like two sets of five and they're sitting there joking around, music's playing, stuff. They don't even know what's going on. Um, and then when we actually transition to power, then it's more explosiveness, eventually ideal.
Speaker 2:We try, we try to get weight, it like into a goblet position or something, instead of it just being a squat jump, and then actually get more weight behind it and stuff with like landmines and stuff. Have them do like you know, I, whatever you want to call it like rainbows and like you know, pressing through, extending through your elbow, all that kind of stuff. But, um, you know I, whatever you want to call it like rainbows and like you know, pressing through, extending through your elbow, all that kind of stuff. But, um, you know, like steep orders right now I just had I started having them do like depth jumps and then reactive jumps and then starting with and then doing it with weight and all that kind of stuff. So it's so cool.
Speaker 2:I think that's ultimately where you want to go Like, even as somebody that's older, you ultimately want to get to doing more of it single leg, or at least unilateral split leg, whatever you want to call it, and then getting power into it, even if it's for four weeks before Boston even I think people have no idea how much is sitting there and how much better you'll feel and more athletic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I ask. The reason is is because you know the large majority of this audience is trail runners and you know yeah, I think a lot of them don't do strength training.
Speaker 1:You'd be surprised by how many people I ask it's crazy at a high level, and they're like, no, I don't really lift. I'm like really yeah, that. Yeah, like I said, I got into it. This off season was the first off season Like I, truly committed to a coach and truly committed to getting into it, and just my durability has gone up significantly.
Speaker 1:I feel feel better, feel, you know, I feel stronger man, like I'll hit the. I do a lot of steep stuff on the incline sometimes. Man, I just feel so much better, I feel fitter and I feel, I don't know, just like, like I said, said from a durability perspective, like I just have more power, just a lot of things. Yeah, yeah I, I really recommend it to everybody and not to not to double back too hard. But one of the questions I did have for you was, as a coach and working with, like from college students, is it like a pain in the ass and hard to like? Keep them, to like make staying on top of them, like during the season to make sure they're doing their shit, or like are they pretty good or like?
Speaker 2:it's. Each year has its own little intricacies and stuff we're now our team is is the culture is like just kind of on autopilot in a lot of ways, like we have our, I guess, delinquencies, but uh, you'll get your once in a while. You'll kind of get a bad apple here and there, but they almost always naturally phase out within a couple of years. Okay, especially like it's the. I'm generalizing when I say our culture is great, but it's like when I started 10 or 11 years ago, we had like 50, 50, we had the kids that partied and then the kids that didn't really care. Maybe once in a while they would or something like that but they just wanted to run, and so we kind of battled that for a long time and we were always an underdog team. We weren't making it to nationals every year. And then 2018, we haven't missed it since and it's like we had a couple of great athletes come along. I mean Affie, who's actually one of my roommates now.
Speaker 2:I mean he ran 1342 and you know I mean he's like ridiculous, but we also had avenue ran 343 and in the 15 and all that kind of stuff. But either way, the depth of our team grew so much.
Speaker 2:So now there's the expectation is like we're not messing around, right, but with that said yeah, and it's like it's pretty immediate and you can almost tell within a couple months where it's just kind of like this kid would surprise me if he's here in a year, wow, okay, there's only like one or two, and a couple in the last two years have surprised me, okay, and that that was where I figured even, or saw even further that our culture was like taking us, because even like this year was supposed to be a down year and we still made it one to nationals.
Speaker 2:And then two gosh, we're 18th or 19th I think 19th, and yeah, it's Division II and you could easily look at that. It's like, oh, it's not even top 10 or something, but like 2021, we were fifth and we were like slivers away from like third and fourth just to come and our fourth guy fainted or our fifth guy like collapsed or something like that Fourth or fifth guy, yeah, anyway, and we still got fifth. So it's like once that happened, it was like, oh, Because of for real, we just beat.
Speaker 2:Western for the first time ever, three times in a row. And then people just and it's in Colorado Springs.
Speaker 1:And we have an indoor track. Now People call us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like we don't. I mean we recruit, but I mean it's we don't like have to do it as much as you would think. Yeah, but it's the little things, though I would say it's 50, 50, like the little things for the kids, like there's, some kids will just literally be there, do every single hurdle drill possible. Yeah, hey, do these three things. Your glutes too tight. I'll tell them blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just hey, let me know in two sessions, and they'll be like, hey, I did all of it, you know. And then the next kid would kind of be like oh yeah, you know it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1:There's always the yeah, I know, yeah, it's, it's, it's, I don't know. It's very inspiring to me to hear about the kids that are like that come in and just buy in and they're ready to work hard and kind of go after it.
Speaker 2:It's pretty fun, it keeps it, keeps the fire alive, from a coaching perspective, like. Like, if we didn't have the last few years, I probably, as much as I like it and being with them, like from a personable standpoint and just like a little bit of fun, and it just shapes my career too, but I probably wouldn't be here. Yeah, if we, if our culture, wasn't shifting that way so that makes sense.
Speaker 1:let's pivot over to your, your personal practice that you work with, you know as you work with as a personal trainer. One of the things I really liked about your site is that you kind of it's like a little bit of a deep dive into diet and things like that. So I'd like to dive into that a little bit more because it seems that's something I struggle with is just like the nutrition part of it. I think a lot of people do. So can we dive into that part a little bit and your background on that?
Speaker 2:And you saw jeffwilsonpersonaltrainingcom correct. Yeah, okay, the reason why I asked that is I just remade my totalbodyrunningcom site. I didn't look at that. Yeah, so if we remember, I'll get to that. Yeah, but the but I, uh I. The reason why I've done that is because, ultimately, I'd like to have the running business and then hire people through that and have more coaches and then, at one day, hand the baton off to somebody without it just being under like a personal training brand. Gotcha Makes sense, but uh, but yeah to.
Speaker 2:To answer your question, though, which we kind of like alluded to earlier, my running career was halted pretty heavily right when I started to take off. Uh, I was in my fifth year at Saginaw Valley. I was 23. I mean, I just gosh, I finally was running times that people knew I could and I knew I could and I was, let's see, I was in the GLIAC conference at the time. It's not as competitive as our conference here at uccs, but it's enough. It's grand valley, all this, you know, and uh, I mean I was starting to like get in the fast heats broke 15 in the 5k.
Speaker 2:I mean I was like starting to like okay like some of the workouts I was putting in an indoor, this had been 2011. Holy crap, man. Like I look back, like sometimes even my roommates who are they're in their mid-20s, late 20s and they'll, they'll like ask me a question about that time, because most of them um, except for the guy I just referenced afi earlier don't have the same prs I have, but they're close and I guess what were you doing, like when you hit the these last three times and stuff, and you know, I'll tell them. They're like Jesus, dude, like you know, like you're like relative.
Speaker 2:Obviously I wasn't going to run like 14 flat or something, but I was on that path and I was one of those guys that post-college stuff didn't scare me, like I knew I was going to train. Most guys think they're going to, but they, you know, you start and all of a sudden you realize that the team environment was pretty necessary. But anyway, right when I hit those times, it was like two days before my indoor conference meet and I was like psyched, out of my mind and then my body just fell apart. I had this massive like whether it was a stomach flu or something like that I literally hadn't had. I didn't have a meal for like 48 hours and then I ran the 5k, cause I shouldn't have, but I mean, it was my senior year.
Speaker 2:Like you would have had to put a gun to my head and I probably still would have ran and I finished all this stuff. It was terrible, and about 10 days after that I had to go to the ER. I couldn't. I could barely breathe, I could barely stand up in the middle of the night. It was the weirdest thing. They never actually gave me a diagnosis, because they're just like we don't actually know what's wrong with you, jesus, like you're telling us you have pneumonia. Basically nothing, not one thing came back when you're like definitive yeah, like your lungs are incredible.
Speaker 2:nothing's on them, um, but you're obviously like I mean you can see. I mean people like right, when my roommates saw me, they're like geez, like holy shit, dude. I lost like 10 pounds and I was already like 142, three, yeah, and for a six foot tall guy that was, you know, I was edging the that's lean man, edging the side of that I think I had.
Speaker 2:I was in an exercise science class at the time and I remember right around then I did a bod pod and I was 6.5 body fat and that was right at the lowest amount. That relative to my body weight and all that stuff. And just generally speaking, I shoulda male, should not be under. Yeah, I didn't know any better at the time, but I, I used to. I ate like a horse too, so it wasn't like I. I mean I ate three, four, four and a half thousand calories on days, jesus and uh, it wasn't all crap either, but anyway, I, just all that stuff happened and I, I I didn't have an answer. It's my senior year. I have one eight, nine, nine week season left to go. I kind of ran through it. I go to a doctor. I think late May or early June of that I graduated and it was like it was a holistic doctor and at the time that was that stuff was still kind of weird. You know, it's like it's the Western mindset.
Speaker 2:Like it was kind of like it was some random chiropractor, that you're like some weird building, you know, you're just like well, like what am I doing here?
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, you need to do a saliva test. Do like a chant around you, yeah, like you know, like what's you know?
Speaker 2:there's like essential oils over here.
Speaker 2:It's like my God, like can you just like? It would change me forever for so many reasons, and I changed my view of health and everything. But you know, he had me take a hair sample and all this blood tests. Two weeks go by, or whatever, I walk in the room and the guy's like Jeff, I don't really know how to tell you this Because you're 24. You just ran some of the best races of your entire life, but your thyroid is about to stop working, Wow, and your adrenal glands are completely wiped out. Like it was somewhere in the like 0.0 something number and I didn't even know what the adrenal glands were. I didn't know the thyroid like I'd heard of the thyroid, but it's like one of those things in like anatomy where you're like oh it's right there, Okay, cool, I got a point on my test.
Speaker 2:Like it wasn't like nobody talked about it, really, it's just oh, it regulates your hormonal system, cool, yay. And he started explaining me to this stuff and I'm like I'm in a cloud. I wasn't sleeping well, my brain's just cognitively. I was just in the grave it felt like, and he's sitting there telling me my body's like shutting down. I don't even know what he means. I'm like dude, I'm 24.
Speaker 2:I'm like thinking all the times it's possible I just ran and I'm like the only thing that helped us was like I have felt like shit for like three months. So it's like, well, this is at least like somewhat validating and he's like dude I don't know how you were racing.
Speaker 2:He's like you could add a heart attack like this and I don't know how to explain that part, but it was just because I was so close to the adrenal shutting down Once. If that happens, then your hormones hormonal system goes all over the place, and so it's normally like there's a lot of thyroid issues in this. But, like you mentioned, uh, there's a lot of people with autoimmune and thyroid's a big one, but ironically, the adrenal glands is usually like the root to it all. I'm still not the best person to describe all that stuff Most of it's experience, and then like little bits and pieces here and there. Eventually I'd like to take my career there, though with runners, because it's just going to keep getting worse. Our food system is an absolute shit show.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But you know, I still remember that office visit. I remember him telling me you got to stop eating wheat and dairy. I'm like I eat 4,000 calories.
Speaker 2:I eat 80% of its wheat, dairy and like fruits, yeah, you know, like a bunch of sugars. And so all of a sudden, my journey started and basically from that point forward, my running was never really the same. I had all these like chunks of time where it was like two months I'd be like, ooh, I'm making some progress, and then my body would just shut down, damn. And so I never really improved in any way. I got close when I moved here my second year. We made it to nationals in 2014. And I was training with the top group. And there's this one like really like a three month period. I had a couple of five K's in the summer that I just kind of randomly ran and ran 1530. And I was like, okay, I'm like, I'm like close, ran a 2506, eight K at a cross country course not altitude and I was like, okay, that's about where I left off, cross country. And then, like a month later went down the tube.
Speaker 2:Testosterone eventually became an issue. I was literally taking like testosterone injections, jesus and uh, that part. I actually kind of skipped that. But I, when I went to my next doctor, I was trying to train again in 20, early 2013. I was trying to, like, really repeat, do the things I'd wanted to do. And, uh, I was going to see this different holistic doctor and I just I felt like I was running in quicksand for like this like couple month period. I did a 3k one day and it's I, I remember, trying to kick, and it felt like somebody had a wall in front of me. Jesus, and you know, I'm only 25, right, I go to my doctor after this.
Speaker 2:I distinctively remember this tempo run. I was on and I I could not run fast after like five minutes, like I couldn't even run under six minute pace. Wow, you know, and this is one at sea level. Two like that used to just be like a day, you know. And so I, I call this guy and I'm like, hey, can you check my testosterone? He goes, jeff, you're 25 man, and I'm like, I know I don't know how to explain it, but I think I'm right and I had no knowledge. It was just like a gut feeling. I still remember this. I was standing on the road looking at my gps and I just screamed. You know, I don't, I'm pretty sure I said the fuck. You know the f word, but I guess sometimes I was so pissed and I didn't know what to do and I just screamed. You know, I don't. I'm pretty sure I said the fuck.
Speaker 2:You know the f word a bunch of times I was so pissed and I didn't know what to do and I'm like I feel like complete dog shit yeah and he comes a you know a couple weeks go by and he's like kind of the same energy as the first guy I mentioned. He's like jeff, I don't really know what to tell you, but you have the testosterone of a 70 year old man what yeah, it was like three, it was like 270, like the total testosterone, yeah, and like even.
Speaker 2:Uh, how old are you? 33? Yeah, okay, so like, even, like yeah, past 25. Some stuff starts changing past 30 blah, blah blah, but we should be like in the few hundreds, yeah, and at the time 25 you're probably like 7 8, 900.
Speaker 2:yeah, like I would you know, I'm not even taking anything, even as a distance runner. You should at least be like 600. And I was two, 70 something, wow. And like I still remember my dad, who would have been like 58 or something at the time, he had just, ironically, like a month later, took a test and he called me one day and he's like what was your number again, and as I told him, he's like what was your number again? And as I told him he's like, yeah, mine was like 400 something holy shit, you know, and of course that was normal for that age and everything.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh my god, so anyway, there's like there's so many other little moments and stuff but that I kept. I had to fight that forever. Yeah, and outside of those little things I mentioned when I was here, that would have been what 2014 to like early 2015. I tried getting into the road scene more because the ultimate goal is the marathon trials. Yeah, as like I. I felt like something like two, 19 was. If I had three, four years of where I was in college, I could do that, and every time I got any momentum it just went down the tubes. I tried a couple halves. The best I got to is 114.13, summer 2015. And I mean I just tanked the last like four miles Like nobody understood why. And the hardest part about all this was one this stuff wasn't very like known. Two I'm a man, so anytime you have stuff like this, you just sound like a pussy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't talk about it, you know, and it's just like, well, yeah, but I mean like you've ran this, so like you know, you're just getting older or you know whatever. I mean we could list like 20 things and I had to like kind of push against that and like eat different. My athletes would even make fun of me, call and say I'm eating rabbit food and stuff, you know. And it's like I had to do all these things for years. I wasn't making much money, I couldn't go to many specialists and then, all of a sudden, I met, um, let's see, well, the one, the personal training business, started May of 2018. It just kind of fell on my lap. I put my shoes down. I'm like I don't know what's going to happen with this, but I'm just going to run casually, and then that's kind of running I was, I was about to turn 31. And so that was kind of a backseat for for a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then I, that summer, I met the doctor I see now, dr Aaron. He's in town, uh, in Colorado Springs, right off of Woodman, and it just started the journey and, uh, people, can you know I started here and it's like I'm now here, like it's just been this slow. I've seen them about twice a month that entire time and we've worked on thyroid health, you know, food, blah, blah blah, chiropractic stuff, acupuncture, uh, oxygen chamber, like, just like things over and over and over again. And then I started running again a couple of years ago and it's like there's so many other factors. There's counseling, you know there's there's other things that don't get talked about with training and when you think about all the slivers, the mental side is something we could dive into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I one thing I'm thankful with, like I re, I really, really wish I would have had at least a little bit more of my career when I was younger, you know especially. I mean obviously making it to trials would be cool, but even if I got close, like if I had like really put it all out there and went like two 21 or something.
Speaker 1:It it's like yeah, it would have been nice to have had that Especially.
Speaker 2:I love 5Ks and 3Ks. I know I had like a low 14s kind of like capability. It's a solid time, but like it sucks because I never did it, you know. So that part stinks.
Speaker 1:But I am glad, but you did say you ran sub 15, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I ran 14.55. That's crazy dude Holy ran sub 15, right, yeah, I ran 14, 55. That's crazy, dude, holy shit. Um, and you know, I mean I I'm now I'm kind of seeing running different again, even though I'm 36. It's like, yeah, the likelihood I do that again is pretty low, but I'm also running the 800 in the mile again and it's like I don't know, never say never what's your mile time now, like what do you?
Speaker 2:I mean right now, if I were to run one right now, I think if I ran great, I would run 445. That's fucking solid dude. But when I was in college I ran 426, but that wasn't really my forte, so who knows? I mean, I haven't been unhealthy for two years. I'm just not running 70 miles a week like I used to.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I own a business and all that stuff. Yeah, you're busy, man, you're busy I'm and like I own a business and all this stuff. So you're busy, man, you're busy like I'm trying to do both.
Speaker 1:So we'll see I'm not really like putting my like identity in that stuff anymore. It's like I just I like it, but um, can we dive a little bit more into some of the dietary changes that you actually made besides? Like yeah yeah, outside of like the obviously. You said dairy, you said wheat. Yeah, what, what kind of like? What's the meat bones no pun intended of like what you got into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I tested a lot of things and during that, during this time, so like what? 2011, june, until I guess you could say now, but at least to 2018, 19,. That was a weird chunk of the fitness industry, or at least the nutritional industry, like the amount of information and the different fads that went through. You know the smoothie fad, you know the now keto. It's like there's validity for somebody in all of those things. But, like at the time, I'd say protein, increased protein was a big deal. I remember that being talked about a lot. The initial things I had to do was cut out wheat and dairy and increase vegetable intake. That wasn't very hard. Excuse me, that was the initial, like year or two, and I'm making it sound really simple it sucked, I hated it. But cause I? You know cheese, yeah, yeah, like pizza. Pizza's my food, oh my God.
Speaker 1:I'd have a hard time without pizza.
Speaker 2:Dude, I used to. I actually there was a realization at the time, cause and I industry, because it was so like cut and dry at the time. It's like especially the thyroid section anytime you got to like a pretty well established doctor in that realm. It was like you can't even have like a sliver of wheat if you have it six months to reset and all I mean it was so it was so depressing, yeah to hear those things over and over, and I adhered to a pretty large chunk of it because that's just kind of my personality and I just wanted to get better.
Speaker 2:But gosh, that was so extreme, and so I I still remember the time when I I sat there and I'm like, am I ever gonna have a regular pizza again?
Speaker 2:I literally cried dude, I would too like I was like because I was thinking like, well, you know yourself, jeff, you know you're going to listen to this. Is this like your life? Yeah, and now I've like I might get to that later. I've learned so much from that. But that was where things started and I had to like really piece through.
Speaker 2:Okay, even though I wasn't running as much, I was still an active guy, working two, three jobs all the time. I still consumed at least 2500 calories500 calories in most days, and so when you think about what that changes. The gluten-free food was pretty expensive and it wasn't as good at the time. So there was more, even more starches and like just other things put in. That just didn't, ironically, also make your stomach feel that great, but it made you feel okay mentally because you could have the same foods. So that's, that was the start of it. And then I would say, when it got to its extremes, I did the elimination stuff. So that was obviously eliminating, but it was still like I dabbled. I mean I was 24, 25.
Speaker 2:I still had, you know, weed. I had beer, this, that and the other, but eventually I got to the point. By the time I moved here I was somewhere in the ballpark of 29 years old to 30, range 31. And then I had started to try like nightshades were out, yeah, berries were out, wow, um, and that was the lowest I went to. That was hard.
Speaker 2:You must have been ripped as shit it was it was, it was hard, um, and then I like added in like nuts or seeds, okay, and I kind of went back and then quinoa and this, that and the other, so that like outside of having to literally try to heal something I would never tell somebody to do that at this point yeah, like, if they want to, great, you want to really be depressed, yeah I mean it was.
Speaker 2:It was really hard, like if you're somebody that only needs like 1800 calories or something curious, makes it was. It was really hard, like if you're somebody that only needs like 1800 calories or something curious on the meat really quick.
Speaker 1:So bison, liver, elk. Now I noticed. Interestingly enough, you didn't say beef. Is that? Because, uh, like what?
Speaker 2:I'm just curious as to why I'm very curious yeah, I may not remember everything now, but the main reason is because most of the beef sources were terrible. That's what I was trying to get at, yeah, and so, like all the chem added chemicals and stuff it was just like one. It just eliminated the thought process of even having to think about it because, yeah, you could get the organic and grass fed and stuff, but we don't even know if that's true, but we don't. Yeah, like there's, there are places, oh gosh, there's a place in southeast Colorado. I am Rancho Largo or something I think is the name.
Speaker 2:But it's really good beef and they just raise their own cows and all that stuff. So it's like I think we have to start, as a side note, move that direction Big time, where we're like trying local stuff but we're like connecting people, like, hey, here, get your meat, here, yeah, and not and obviously you can't do it perfect all the time this, that and the other, and people have kids, are busy and this and the other.
Speaker 1:But what if you could cut out? If you can cut out, yeah, refarming it's big time yeah it was a big deal.
Speaker 2:I remember my the doctor at the time, who was this one, was a different guy up in denver. He's just like just do what you can. It's not gonna be perfect, but like try not to have regular chicken because most of that same same category, yeah oh and oh. Fish was the other thing I had, okay, and so it was all, but it was always wild caught, yeah, which that is an extreme difference, dude. If people knew what was it like, oh my god, farm salmon farm salmon is.
Speaker 2:It's crazy like I still remember years when I first started it. I made a mistake, or I was out eating and they just that's all they had. And I remember taking a bite of a salmon that was very clearly farm-raised and I mean it was like Night and day. Night and day, not even a question. I was like all right, well, I paid for it question.
Speaker 1:I was like all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I paid for it, so I gotta eat it. I'll finish, but I will never do that again, and it was like alarm every time. I think I will literally stare at the label until I figure it out.
Speaker 1:If it's not obvious, yeah, but anyway so that was the main reason for beef.
Speaker 2:Okay, it was, it was just taking out the questions. And then there was something else with elk and bison. Might just been the like, been like the lean category of it, and then the liver. One was literally for iron and there was something else, but that helped a lot. It didn't taste good, unless you like peppered it with stuff, but it was very noticeable, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, curious to see. I know it's like a big debate now and I'm just this is like a random question that I'm curious about just because you're like very involved on the diet side. Seed oils, do you cut that?
Speaker 2:shit out, you know. So I did that too at the time. Okay, like actually during that same phase is gonna sound so nuts, but after like a test, like I didn't even have black pepper, okay, like there was like stuff like that, that was like don't do this, do this, you know. And the seed oils was a big one, oh, and I had god, I had to do eggs too that's tough.
Speaker 1:I eat eggs all the time, same like probably five days a week like three to four at least it's tough to cut that out
Speaker 2:yeah, and they're, and they're really good for you. There's obviously mixed nutritional advice everywhere. I would say to anyone listening, like, try to simplify it as much as possible. You want to be like initially trustworthy, you know, trusting to who you're going to. But take it with a grain of salt, like literally, and try to listen to your body. Yeah, like if you're reacting good it doesn't necessarily mean 20 years from now it's good, but you're probably at least on the right path. Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:Did you ever have to cut out?
Speaker 2:caffeine. Did you have to like do? Oh, I'm glad you asked that ironically, so I didn't have caffeine at all. Wow, regularly just by myself. Okay, like I. It was like I had probably 10 coffees before the age of 30. What, oh dude? I would die if I had to yeah, so now, now I I have. I love it. I was just at loyal coffee before I came here, okay, I love their black coffee.
Speaker 2:Um, I try not to have much and I try to, uh, like once a week or so have a day where I don't, or maybe I'll have like white tea or something. Okay, and then, um, I'm going to try this new thing every quarter to take out like four or five days or maybe a week and then reset and do all that stuff. But anyway, that wasn't a problem. I also, during part of that same phase and into I was, I think, 32 I did over two years of no alcohol okay I don't drink, so that's why I was as I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was like I I was only socially drinking, but I love beer, yeah, oh, and I love red wine and I was. I mean, it really wasn't much, but I just woke up one day and I was like I think I need to mean it really wasn't much. But I just woke up one day and I was like I think I need to cut this out too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mine was before performance. I just really I got to the point where I was like, okay, what can I eliminate that's going to give me better sleep, help me recover better?
Speaker 2:you know, and I just 100 from performance decisions yeah, yeah, I understand, and I mean there is a lot to it. I mean even people like jordan peterson yeah, I don't know if you ever listened to him, but like I mean even he's big on just like hey, yeah, if you can get rid of it, you know I mean socially.
Speaker 1:I get like if I'm with friends they'll be like the fuck, you're not gonna have a beer, like what's wrong you know like, but at the same time I don't know. I stick to my like, I like to stick to my guns you know, I like I really appreciate a solid night's sleep.
Speaker 1:I and I'm I'm kind of a psycho about tracking, like my deep sleep and all my sleep cycles okay I want to be tuned in on recovery and I feel like, if I have, I was uh with a sponsor, I don't know. It's like six months ago and we went out to a restaurant. Everybody had beers and I'm like, all right, fine, order a beer, order a beer, dude. I had like the worst sleep of my life really yeah, I guess, like I don't normally drink and yeah, it was after that I pretty much swore off and it was like I'm done, you know yeah good for you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I go through phases like right now, it's been two months and I haven't. I ironically, I'm actually meeting sean later. Oh, are you right? Yeah, we're gonna catch up that awesome. I don't know what brewery we're going to Shout out to. Sean Rimmer. Yeah, what up, sean. But I even said I told him and another friend last week I was just like, hey, I don't know when, but for whatever reason, I'm just going to ride this wave.
Speaker 1:You're meeting him today. Yeah, I actually-.
Speaker 2:At like six or something.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Perfect. But anyway, it was like I don't have a big reason otherwise, otherwise or just other than I don't know, it's just kind of naturally happened. I had like three, four weeks in I guess. I guess it'd be February.
Speaker 2:Now I know he likes his beer when I was just kind of like eh, I don't really want anything and I try to do that here and there. Like even when the small bits of coffee, like if I get like a day, like I'm a I'm a momentum guy okay with everything. So especially with all this food, food stuff, like it is hard to do this, it's hard to change these things, and all of a sudden a doctor tells you to take out wheat. It's like one do it step by step. You know. It's like if I'm working with a personal training client that has a lot of soda, if they're having two a day, I'm not going to tell them to have zero tomorrow.
Speaker 2:You know, like withdrawals man, it's like it's just, it's hard. So it's like I to anyone that's even thinking about doing any of these things, it's like give it time, it it does. It takes your brain some like rewiring and stuff. But once you get a little like boost and you notice whether it's the alcohol thing, your, your stomach isn't reacting to something well, or you're like caffeine fanatic, it's like at first it sounds like a nightmare to get rid of it. But then like like you get a couple of days and you're like you know, okay, I'm fine, you can do it, you know, let's have tea instead, or something you know. And then I just I try to ride the wave Something warm.
Speaker 1:Like. Even for me, I think it's the stimulus of having oh, I try to ride the wave Something warm. Even for me, I think it's the stimulus of having a hot cup of something in your hand. I'm not saying, do this, but I have done it before. If I'm trying to kick.
Speaker 2:I'll do decaf every now and then it's actually dude.
Speaker 1:this is a whole different tangent.
Speaker 1:It's actually something to piggyback off of a video I saw you posted about like vestibular system, um, but I actually had a like a vestibular neuritis earlier in the year um like from a like an inner ear infection that was causing issues and, dude, I looked up everything in the book what the hell could be wrong with me, because I'm like guessing and trying to figure out and one of the things I thought was caffeine. So I cut out caffeine for like a week and I was, I was going through it, it man. It was tough, and so one of the things I did was started off with decaf and then, like I do just like a hot cup of tea or like or um, hot chocolate, even at times, like I did a gazillion different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just like and then I realized that wasn't the issue. I went straight back to having coffee, but it was. It was a struggle, like I didn't feel any better. I felt a million times worse. Got to get out Like I don't know how people get up in the morning to have a cup of coffee, but that's you know. I've been drinking since college, but yeah, so yeah, I don't know where I was going with that but yeah, that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, even we were talking about strength training earlier. Yeah, even for somebody that's kind of like, oh, you know what, I think I should stuff it like it just like anything it has to like take you know, especially in that way, gosh, what do you? At least six weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, especially if somebody hasn't done it for a long time or ever, it's like you probably, you probably at least wear, but like I'm I'm so glad on the caffeine topic, I didn't have it for so long and that I've done all those nutritional things, because now I know that, no matter what happens to me, I can always rely on the fact that I've done those things. You know, it's even with stuff like performance and running and stuff. It's like all right, I don't know if I want to run 70 miles a week again, but I know I could and I know how to do it well, and now I know how to recover better and I know that I know my body enough to where, like some of the things we just said. Mate, let's say, I start doing that next year. I'll know the things that naturally, at some point I'll be like all right, I'm like wanting more of this to like get my head through the game, and it's like just these little cues that you can like.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people are too kind of like checked out of themselves and we're too distracted by our phones and just going like commuting to order jobs and just I got to do this, I did that, and then they just run or train for whatever they're doing and they're not really tuned into what their body's telling them about or how they feel. Yeah, and I even think that's some of the root problem to why some of these things happen nutritionally. Like, obviously the story I told was kind of extreme to a degree, other than I was just young and nothing bad really happened, but at the same time, like I never really ran fast again.
Speaker 1:so I shouldn't say not ran fast, but relatively speaking.
Speaker 2:But I think people's lives and how they go about it and don't listen to themselves is why stomach stuff comes up, yeah, and the autoimmune usually starts in your gut, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, man. It's a wild battle too. I've known quite a few people that have dealt with like autoimmune things and it's just. It's interesting to me because I'm like you know, what is your lifestyle like and things like that to. You know, bring things up. But so let's dive a little bit more into the practice that you have as well. I don't know if you want to talk more about that. We talked about the diet aspect, but yeah, I really want to give listeners, especially because we have somebody in the colorado springs area. Oh sure, learn a little bit more about your practice and if they're looking.
Speaker 1:You know if you're looking for more clients and people right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So as far as, uh, I'm assuming only runners are listening, runners families of runners yeah.
Speaker 2:But, uh, whether you are a runner or not, uh, I would say about half my business is runners and then the other half is, uh, typically in person personal training clients. Most people are somewhere between 35 and 55, but I have I've had, as um, from the personal training side of things, I've had as, I think, as old as 86. Wow, uh, margaret, she was awesome, uh was awesome, but I haven't heard from her in a couple of years. But, and then, as young as just youth athletes, I'm hoping to actually do more youth athlete work with the Pikes Peak Athletic Center this this summer. We're working on that now. But as far as what I do, my main goal with runners which I alluded to earlier with strength training, but my, I guess, tagline, if you will, would be to help runners get stronger, faster and more injury resilient, and I like to take a total body approach. This is where the total body running name came from, and all the stuff we just said is why I think I would have been a great coach, just helping people get faster and then learning about strength training along the way.
Speaker 2:But I think, because of my story, it's forced me to think okay, well, there's food, there's recovery, cause I had. That was a problem too for a while. There's like, oh, now you take the food thing, there's the caffeine, there's the no alcohol. There's like, oh, now you take the food thing, there's the caffeine, there's the no alcohol. There's like, what type of food? You know? The sleep part? It's like those things related to sleep Habits, and then your social life, your relational life, your mental health so many components you know it's like and it really actually does matter. And so most people yeah, most people when they work with me I'm helping them qualify for Boston, do the ascent.
Speaker 2:I do get beginners that just want to learn how to run, do a 5K and stuff like that. That's cool. For the most part, it's people that are like hey, I want to do this next thing. Boston's probably the thing I will focus the most on if they're not on the younger side of things. But I put a big emphasis on the strength training. Strength training component. It is a hard wall to break down though. So, uh, I mean we talked about that earlier, but it's a lot of people will say they want it and get excited about it, and then they immediately push to the run training stuff and it's understandable, but I try to make it very like 50 50.
Speaker 2:It's like I keep pushing, like especially as people age. Yeah, just the mobility of their joints. You can do yoga, that's great. You can stretch, that's also great. But you're going to get the most out of strength training dude your bone.
Speaker 1:what is your bone density breakdown like a ton after, as you after getting old? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean even after like our age range, it's theoretically or from research and stuff is. I mean it's starts like our testosterone levels as guys go down every few years. I think we'll, I think we'll kind of push up against that with like all the the Huberman's and the hacks and stuff that are happening.
Speaker 1:But the hacks and stuff that are happening.
Speaker 2:But, um, I uh. So anyway, I like to take a full body like, even like internal approach with people, especially if they're willing. But I usually will start with the things that are fun. People want to know like, hey, what, what workouts do I need to do? But I'm very, I'm a big speed guy, even for somebody training for the marathon and cause it's's just, I think speed, strength and like just their body moving well is the limiting factors that people don't even know are there.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean even something as simple as calf's work, like sean's actually the first, the first person like him and I have a very similar strength training philosophy and part of my issues as I was getting back into running two years ago was the relative strength between my lower legs to the rest of my body. I didn't realize was such a discrepancy. And because we run, you think your calves are fine, especially if you looked at mine. They look strong, they look vascular. It's like, yeah, you're fine, you're young, you know whatever, but it's like what your calves need to be able to do as well as like the big toe, like what that needs to be able to accomplish and how much force you're hitting the ground with and then pushing off or what's necessary to push off. Well, and then do it however, many, tens of thousands of times and stuff.
Speaker 2:It's like it is so underrated it's stupid big time and uh, like that's what I would like with with you. You mentioned something earlier. I can't remember what it was, but I think I was going to ask you something about that. But either way, lower body versus upper body yeah, oh yeah, it was the lower body. So it's like if, like for people listening. Like you know, the 2010s glutes were like the big thing yeah but the.
Speaker 2:I personally think the missing links are feet, calves and hip flexors, yeah, and it's especially if we're talking lower body or even like the kind of connecting points to being faster also staying healthy, and then even the relationship to the upper body, because you get the hip flexors have a lot to do with like low back pain, yep, and like the um, like not lordosis, but just the, I guess uh, anterior pelvic tilt that people typically have or something where they're like low back is just kind of a little bit off. Um, I'm moving as if people can see me, but I forgot we don't have camera.
Speaker 2:Sorry guys, but uh, anyway, so that's I. I in person. We do an assessment up front If they need to like Sean and I actually have a good relationship with this but if they need to get further physical therapy work, then I'll pretty quickly send them off to that. For the most part, naturally, people come and they're ready and it's the stuff that I can work on. It's like, um, and it's the stuff that's that I can work on. It's like right, just, it's easy stuff. It's like all right, I just look at the full body, have them get their shoes off, I watch them run, all that stuff. So I love the in-person stuff more than anything.
Speaker 2:But I work with people completely remotely, completely in person or hybrid, which is the most fun out of that, because if they're like, hey, I want to do the ascent, but I want to see you once a week, right, that's awesome, that's like the greatest thing ever, and so that's. I want to grow the running side of my business the most this year. That's my biggest goal, okay. But as far as personal training goes, some of the stuff that I just referenced about my life, naturally I'd say a good chunk of people that have come to me have had either an autoimmune condition or they just feel like complete crap. Yeah, and you say it's like a big sorry to interrupt you.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean honestly my curiosity too, because I'm sure a lot of them are mid packers, you know, maybe some front of the pack. But like, is it just because of these people, you know, they got their day job, they're caught up, like everyday life just kind of wears them down, would you say. A lot of that is that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, and, and most people like I sometimes I forget that most people don't have the background that I had like it's like I started running seventh grade, right, I had this team environment or it's, you know, rocky and David Goggins combination. You know it's like you, you know there's all this. Like you, you learn all the intrinsic stuff, and so one that I mean intrinsic motivation is just not naturally with a lot of people. Yeah, um, sorry if that bums you out listening, but uh, um, I guess, I guess that's kind of what david goggins.
Speaker 1:Does you know you're not.
Speaker 2:You're not wrong like hey like just get up and go. But when you think about how hard life can be, just generally speaking, and the, I mean they're coming to you for knowledge, right, they're coming to you for help, but because there's all these preconceived notions of how to get better at running, like, I've worked with this one guy for like three years and his things were the exact stuff I referenced that he needed to do were those main areas. Okay, he had a huge running background. He's actually pretty solid in his 20s. He had broken three hours in a marathon and stuff like that at one point. Um, but he's, let's see, he was 51, I think, when we started, so he'd be somewhere close to 55 at this point.
Speaker 2:Okay, but uh, his patterns were so stuck on long runs and like having the miles and miles and miles, and it was like if you looked at his life and then the stress and then the things he told me which you know you have to like read the emails and stuff, it'd be like do we need like quick wins?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we need like hill sprints twice a week not all, not the whole year, but like we need, like you need to, we need to get to you your strength foundation, yeah, so that you're, you can get to power. And it's like he bought in immediately, like immediately, but just verbally, you know. And but there was all these like but like I, I really need to get like 14 in this weekend. And it's like, dude, every time you do that, you're, you're, you feel amazing for accomplishing it. Yeah, and it's a big box checked, you're breaking yourself down, but like that's and it's like, yeah, you, you want to get to the marathon again. Yeah, we have to do that at some point, but we the year right, and most people don't need to. But because the long run was like the secret sauce of like the 80s and 90s right, I hate it, like it's my least favorite part of the week.
Speaker 1:I have it once a week and my coaches it's like pulling fucking teeth man, because I'm always like I want to do something fast and yeah, short, like I don't know, but anyway and it's where the where the industry's at too.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've read into much of double threshold training, but like in all the norwegian stuff yeah jacob and things like my roommates will go nuts like um, I'll tell them about you. If you, if they ever want to come and talk about it, they would uh they would talk your ear off.
Speaker 2:But and and I I agree with the, the, the concepts and stuff. Obviously most people can't do two workouts in a day, but threshold training it's like you go back all the way to lydier and stuff. That was technically already figured out, but it was just in a very simplistic manner. Oh, would that have been the 50s, 60s, you know, yeah, but uh, I can see that that's where you could get the best bang for your buck for a lot of people, because one like you could almost do like an easy interval method, which even I'm like kind of testing out myself, because I'm only running like 30 miles a week for most of the time. So it's even when I did my marathon last fall, I ran 253 and I averaged, I think, 35 really for like I don't know 14 weeks, and the ascent was a part of that too.
Speaker 1:That's wild dude, because I see people doing like 120 mile weeks for a marathon to run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know yeah, I mean, if you're talking like ideal world, yeah, it's like I would probably.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was always a low mileage guy that's pretty stout, though, for for 35 miles a week.
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks yeah, I'm trying. I'm kind of almost in some ways trying to test out the whole hybrid. I put my air quotes up, um, not to the necessarily the degree that nick bear is doing, which I'm sure you'd recognize the name, but I have an idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the austin guy, right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, I want to. That's a whole nother topic. That would be a fun podcast. But uh, I kind of want to test the waters, which is part of the reason why I'm doing the track races, because it's like part of the year then literally all those things would naturally low mileage, power training. I like right now I'm actually physically trying to gain muscle too. Okay, um, not a whole lot, but I probably like probably three pounds in right now and that's a whole. That's. I'm just basically testing it out because I think there's a lot of like fallacies or whatever word you want to use, and like how much muscle you can have. Yeah, relative to what you're trying to do. It's like it's. I'm not running 14 flat, right, you know. So anyway, that's a whole. We don't need to get into that.
Speaker 1:But interesting though that we might have to have that for round two. Yeah, yeah, that would actually it'd be fun.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean you, you just I'm assuming you only have these two mics oh, we can, we can have another setup.
Speaker 1:Cause I really want to have more. Yeah, like a group.
Speaker 2:This would be cool to get Sean on Exactly, especially one to have the physical therapist mindset. But, like I said earlier, he has a very similar strength conditioning approach to, to, to me, yeah, I'm just he's just going at about it differently with people comes in anyway, I. I think there's a lot to talk about with that, but I think most people, because of how much time they have, how much life is hitting them what have you we're distracted. I think our brains are like overloaded, just way overload. I'm, I'm working on that. I mean, I literally have a minimalist app that like it's black, like this dude I like that.
Speaker 2:You know I've done something like that, like I just did it like three months ago and it's like here's Dude, I like that. I've never done something like that. Like I just did it like three months ago and it's like here's your apps. It's like, yeah, when you click into them, it's normal.
Speaker 1:But like.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to do all these like little things so that I'm not like immediately on my phone, but anyway, it's just. We went to 2020, people went to work from home. People are sitting more yada, yada, yada, but I think people could use a lot of short burst work, not like the way that's the crossfit world. Uh, no offense to crossfitters, but uh, there was a push when the running crossfit crossover happened world collided yeah, and like there was a couple people.
Speaker 2:They had a lot of good knowledge. Um, like there's gosh, what was his name? Brian McKenzie was one. I liked his stuff, but only up to a point. Like he was literally training people for the marathon and they barely were running Right and it was like there's. I mean, it was like 15 miles a week. They barely had any long runs.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of sprint where it was all the Metcon crap. Metcons make me want to throw something through a window Like it's like once in a while, sure, yeah, but like you don't need to do that three days a week and you're not going to get better at running in almost always no offense to anybody. It's like maybe a little burst here and there, but it's like you got to run, yeah, and anyway.
Speaker 2:That's my little plug there but, I'm with you on that, but like but. So I don't mean that to sound contradicting, because I just said like short burst stuff and that's in a lot of ways what that would be.
Speaker 2:But I mean like in running intervals you know I can't have a workout like, have like literally threshold intervals where it's like you literally could do 400s, or for some people that let's say your average pace is 10, 11 minutes per mile for your easy runs, well then 400s would actually be, you know, two and a half minutes or two, two and a quarter or 240 or so, whatever it is, and so it's like that's a, that's a good chunk of time and you needed probably at least a minute especially somebody in that category for recovery. But anyway, it's like stuff like that I don't think people do enough. It's very, you know, oh, I need my long run, I need, I need my normal day runs and stuff, and there's not enough like strides, there's not enough hill sprints, yep, and if you're also not lifting and you're also not doing like any of those kind of intervals, it's just kind of random.
Speaker 2:there's like three or four chunks of your training that are never being worked on, not even being touched.
Speaker 1:Dude, this is like I'm so happy you said this, because this is like the biggest problem that I have with so many trail runners. They're just going out there. I mean listen. They just go run and that's fine If that's what you want to do.
Speaker 2:I get it.
Speaker 1:But if you want to, if there's, if you, if you're trying to be competitive or if you're trying to hit a PR, if you're trying to do you know, get ready for a race. There are so many things that you have to touch on. It can't just be a row all aerobic. There's so many systems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, zone two. Man, if I hear zone two to the degree like I mean, like I, I have a roommate, that's, that's a, that's a big trail guy, and then I just my research and other people I've listened to other other trail but like, if people talk about zone two the way they do, I'm gonna throw up like it's like yes, it's important, yes, yeah, um no, and there's no, and that's what I'm not saying.
Speaker 1:It's not important.
Speaker 2:It's like you got to do it and yes, naturally, trail. We're here at 6 000 feet within like a small chunk of time. We could be at seven or eight. Yes, your heart rate's gonna be a little bit different in some cases a lot depending on your fitness level. Yeah, you, you, you. You do have to pay attention to that.
Speaker 2:And sometimes just going up bar trail at an easy pace ends up you end up getting up to 160, 70 beats per minute type thing so it's like there is something to just going out and running relative to just if you're just training for a 5k or something and you're on the flat MVP ground over here, over here or just out in your neighborhood, but still it's like you, you have to work the zones exactly and not to overhype heart rate. I'm not even a huge heart rate guy, but it's like it does tell you stuff.
Speaker 2:So you gotta, you gotta lie yeah it's like it's it's right there, like if you're at 190 randomly running up. Well, maybe you need to change the intervals distance but when it dialed back time, like you even know. If you think you're going slow, it's like, well, you also are going up a mountain, so but I I totally agree with you, though, like I don't, I've only been doing trail running for a couple years, so I don't want to sound like no expert, but if you take all the things I've learned in every other area, right and apply that all applies.
Speaker 2:It's just you just got to take the, you are going to spike your heart rate, going uphill, for obvious reasons. So it's like if you take that into account and you pay attention just enough, that's really the only element, I would argue, unless somebody has like terrible ankle strength or something or like there's a physical limitation. It's like that's probably all you need to change or pay attention to. Yeah, but people just aren't doing enough.
Speaker 1:No, no, a lot of it's just like zone fours, you know that kind of stuff. And yeah, zone five is not even a conversation for most people now and one of the things I and we can get into this in the next episode because they're so. I just have so many questions for you, but like it's like. So, as a professional in the trail running space, it's just interesting to me because you are very dialed and you come from this cross country track background and our sport is starting to become more professionalized now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just think there's so much to apply from your world that we can bring into our world, so that not only can we make it more professional, but just so we can get more dialed and you'll start to see more, start to see more PR, or just to see more courts records go down. So, yeah, I just I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, uh, what's um gosh? I hope I am not butchering it's. It's Jake Wamsley, right, jim, Jim, okay, so he's a great example, yeah, like Joe Gray, joe, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Joe's a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal stud, yeah, Like one one.
Speaker 2:he's obviously done incredible things in the trail world. But he, he was in the trials for the steeple Talk about Joe. Yeah, yeah, god, I hope that's right. I'm pretty sure that's right. It's a good question. I want to say state he was good, yeah, and that was when oklahoma state or not, to say when, like it's if they're not good anymore. But they were good, yeah, and well with him.
Speaker 2:any team's good, yeah, and like uh, walmsley was I mean heck our rust buster course um for uccs down at mvp when we used to do the 6k. He has the old record. No shit, wow, I don't remember what it is. I mean, and you look at what he's doing at the trail scene, it's like these are perfect examples, like imagine if the even half the depth of the cross country track world came to trail.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got this like feeder program. Now Shout out to Andy Wacker, he's got this thing called the trail team.
Speaker 2:That's the other guy I was saying I couldn't think Another stud. Yeah, that's the other guy. I couldn't think another.
Speaker 1:yeah, he's a stud um, but he's like, he's created, basically created like a small feeder program where he selects six athletes out, like from the year, like six athletes a year from ncaa programs yeah, to try and transition them out of you know, as they, as they really grow and evolve in their um, respective uh distances, as they leave the NCAA into the trail world.
Speaker 1:And he's helping them get contracts, he's helping them kind of just find their way and that's that's what we need. That's how American trail running just grows into potentially an Olympic sport who knows man you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's cool that he's doing that.
Speaker 2:I didn't know it was to that degree, but that's um. I even just think the post-college world in general, like I'm even this is. This is actually a slight reason why I'm even talking to sean tonight, because I'm trying to like collaborate with different people in town, because I would like to make a post-college sub-elite group. Okay, and anyway, this crossover with trail stuff too is something that's. It's in my mind, because there's so much low hanging fruit for somebody that's like a pretty solid college runner. Absolutely, guys and girls. I mean there's just there's this like open avenue, and I don't mean that to sound like oh, trail running Like nobody's fast, but no, I mean, there's like some like some of the stuff that people have done on trails is like I'm sorry, what, yeah, people have done on trails is like I'm sorry what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you, god, it's 106 miles, like what. Like, how did you? Okay? That's ridiculous. You know good for you. Or like that, you know two hour ascent, it's like okay yeah you do you man, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I don't think I'll ever be able to do that well, actually, but the depth is where I is, the we need more depth, and that's that's what I was kind of alluding to with the professionalization of bringing people over. Now, the one thing I wanted to hit on too, because you've got some speed, man, and I didn't know that, so, and you know, you've ran the ascent twice you said yeah, the last two years okay, like, are you like? Like what are you targeting for an ascent time for this year? And like, what's your training?
Speaker 2:like stuff looking like the main, like two years ago, I was just getting back into running and so it was like I'm going to go do this and I kind of used it as a way to do something different and not be on the roads and like enjoy running in a different way, and I was like I'm just going to do this, I'll see how close to three hours I can get. Okay, I had a unfortunate my calves like cramped up at my right after Bart um camp, yeah.
Speaker 2:I could not run the second half of the race and it was, I went like three, 20 and change, okay, and I was like really pissed and I was like destroyed when I got to the top, even though I couldn't run. I was like I tried running like 45 times and I I'd get like 10 feet and my calves would cramp. So I learned about that. And and I'd get like 10 feet and my calves would cramp. So I learned about that. And then this year I went through this. Last year I went three, 10. Okay, yeah, I was a little surprised. I felt pretty solid. I had a stomach issues that day, but it was like I had. My training was a lot better. So it was like I thought I would naturally run like three, oh, five or faster, but it was still like, you know, 35 miles a week or so. Yeah, I had a couple like 40 mile weeks, but my average is about that. So now it's, it's still the same goal.
Speaker 2:I want to break three, okay, and then I don't know, I the last like few months, the fire in me is like come back like this was just kind of like hey, I'm just going to do this stuff, have fun. Yeah, I'll go run an 800, you know. But like I was looking at it, like I just like I like training, just like anybody would do a crossfit class or orange theory or just go to a run group because they like it. Yeah, that's how I was looking at it. And now all of a sudden it's like well, I'm still healthy and I keep kind of just bumping up a little bit more and a little bit more. So it's like the trail thing is like completely, I don't know it's a new world dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying you can't quantify, like almost any of it. Well, every route's different you know, you never know, like what you're gonna yeah, it's only race the same race to the same race that you can quantify anything, and obviously the ascent's a pretty fun one to do that, but like I don't know what I'm gonna do do during the Pikes Peak 50K? Yeah, well, that's what I was going to get to too is like.
Speaker 1:That's your first kind of like ultra right, yeah. Oh shit, All right yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm excited. I asked a couple of friends that have done it. I'm like I looked at the times and I'm like dude, talk to me. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the peak, don't quote me on that, but it's 11,000 feet or something like that.
Speaker 2:The graph literally is 18 miles like slowly up and then you have 13 down. Okay, so I'll get an idea of what it's like to kind of do the Pikes Peak marathon, yeah, like you come, obviously come down to my half marathon back, and I always said that that is just nuts. I always said that that is just nuts, terrible. But then I'm about to do this I don't know. So, yeah, I mean, I just this last weekend I ran a 210, 800. Okay, damn dude, I'd like to like that's a whole nother world. I haven't even realized, like I've just been doing this for me and stuff and that's. I mean there was people at that meet man is USATF masters race. There was a six year old woman who ran 229. What? It was a 50 year old guy that ran two flat Dude there's some athletes in the state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was like and it was, and that was actually that was. It was in Chicago, so it was a national one, but it was like. Dude, like some of these times I was like this is like making me look at this differently. Yeah, so some of this, like these preconceived notions of kind of like oh, you hit a certain time a certain age like you're 30 something yeah oh, you can't run fast anymore.
Speaker 2:It's like, well, kinda, yeah, like my, whatever I could have done, yeah, if everything had been perfect my entire life and I was like that d1 guy that you know, oh my god, he's. He just all american 12 times. You know, if I was that dude, sure I probably would have ran, like you know, 150 something and 408, you know, but because I never did that, we don't really know what the number is, it's true. So you can't really say that you can't get faster, you can't. You know what I mean. Yeah, you like I don't know I.
Speaker 1:I saw I'm going through something similar, uh, more mental in a lot of ways, like I just turned 33 and I'm starting to wonder it's more. So just the wondering part. I don't feel any different. I keep getting fitter. Yeah, you know, I'm lowering my times, I'm getting so, I'm getting faster, and I haven't seen a performance decline from a racing perspective or like PR perspective or anything like that, and training seems great. I just wonder. I'm 33 years old, okay, I. I think the reason the mentally thing is for me on this is on this podcast I'm interviewing a bunch of like 20 somethings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these guys are young killers.
Speaker 1:And you know I'm like, damn, I'm the old man here now like this is a weird place.
Speaker 2:It's a weird place to be in, yeah, so you start to mentally think about it.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, as I get older, obviously we all know there's a decline and sometimes people just hit the wall. You know, and one year you show up for your season even though you could be doing everything correctly, and then you start to see a performance drop off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's kind of different in a lot of people, so I don't know it's got me stressed out, I don't know why. I think I understand, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think like, as long as you gotta, you gotta look at your, your scenario, yeah, and be able to have another pair of eyes and ears on it to kind of like, okay, look at what I've done in my life, yep, and if you're somebody that's like, start you didn't run until you're 51. You have no idea, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know who Mark Tatum is? He's a Colorado Springs guy, I think so he's in his 60s. He's a fucking stud man. That guy's in his 60s and, like crushes people, does he do trail stuff?
Speaker 2:He's a trail runner.
Speaker 1:I think he's coach the pillar in colorado springs that I look at for like longevity. Okay, I'm just like okay, this guy can do this in the 60s. I feel like I can do this into my side. I've got 20 something, 30 something years left, you know well and for like for you and everybody listening.
Speaker 2:Um, there's something I've been learning the last few years and stuff of the stuff I just referenced with the masters races and stuff. I mean these are people are putting on spikes in their seventies and stuff, and that's almost weird. It's inspiring, but it's like to me. It's like I mean I was totally inspired when I did this. But trails is a funny one too, because there's so many variables that you can't like the track is a track. It's literally like here's a mile Figure it out.
Speaker 2:There it is, man, like it's pretty plain and simple. You can't do anything, you can't cheat, you know you're either running more feet or you run the exact mile you know. So, trails, there's so much room for growth that you can't really quantify well and because of what we just said, with the competition, we don't have as much to compare to. So it's like, yeah, no-transcript like you know whatever names you want to say. I mean, there's ally mac from the women's side stuff like that, how he's dominant, yeah so it's like there's these people and, yes, let let's use them.
Speaker 2:Here's what like Joe did for like blah, blah, blah years. Pretty incredible, but it also the track and some of the shorter distances are. So what's the word I'm looking for? Exposing Yep, and I think that's also why people don't do it after a certain age. Most of it's because of opportunity, which I'm kind of excited about. I'd like to make a track scene in the in the city, which is the main reason why I'm talking to sean tonight he doesn't know that, but um, let's look him out after yeah uh, but that that's.
Speaker 2:We don't need to get into that. But the trail scene is funny because because of the potential, like you take the ascent I thought about this for like days after my second one. I was up running you know pretty well, but I mean I was 112th or something right Like so there's like a lot of room for improvement. But it was only my second one, it's only my second trail race. I was only running 30 something miles a week. So I'm looking at that and going well, I could kind of get faster at this for a long time, absolutely. And then this thought popped in my mind I was like at like two miles to go.
Speaker 2:The guy that was near me was, I think, over 60 wow, I could have been martatum yeah me and honestly, like there was this moment where I, all of a sudden, I was like that guy wasn't my age, you know, and I think. I think I beat him by like a minute or something but like so we could look back at the at the but I just I that's what stuck with me.
Speaker 2:Okay, and it's like that's a like I didn't, like I said I was a hundred and something, place, place. It's not like I ran two, 40, but like still it's not slouching, yeah. And like this guy was near me and I'm like, okay, let's think about this scientifically. For a second track, we're talking more speed. That's going to be most people's limiting factor, whereas this is going to be aerobic development. Yep, and what can you keep developing the aerobic system?
Speaker 2:yeah, so for like yeah, yeah here comes the zone two, the demons coming out of the woodwork, but so, but if you, I know we're I'm saying this simplistically, but the you could like, even remy ran what? Eight and a half or nine minute pace for the average, or whatever it comes out to be.
Speaker 1:I think it was yeah, so it's like we yeah, we know that that's incredible relative to what.
Speaker 2:That is right, but that's still not fast running, that's a fast ascent, right, it's like still something. I will not run two hours. What four, five, eight people in the history of this will probably ever do that. So it's like kudos man, you know. But even, let's say you ran, try to aim for like 245 or 240, whatever pace that comes out to be 10 something. Yeah, so think about from an aerobic standpoint, that can continue to be developed and you can get the technical pieces down. You can do the three, two, one thing that's what I was gonna say come home get the altitude you know and you like, do those things.
Speaker 2:It's like that's not the same as just going out and running. Yeah, and so to the age thing to close that whole rant. It's like you, we might be able to get good at this scent until we're 50, 60, 70. Yeah, I know it's and I know. I'm just even saying the name.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, what did he say?
Speaker 2:but it's like. But how do you like? How can you quantify?
Speaker 1:we don't know if you stay healthy.
Speaker 2:The running industry hasn't done enough or hasn't had enough time under the strength training plyometric realm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you could definitely see it. I mean, I think there's testament to this. I think you'll start to see more master's records go down in the next few years absolutely and that's that'll be our telltale. You know our indicator from that. But yeah, I agree, man, I'm excited for I am too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gave me a new fire because I I used to have a bad relationship with time okay, like it makes sense, like I just, I mean, I remember asking my dad he was a big runner, I think I was like early 20s, I think I was still in college and I asked him like what does it feel like when you get to that point?
Speaker 2:and you know, almost inevitably you just cross the line to where oh, I'm never gonna PR again yeah it's terrifying, dude, and he said he's like it's, it's tough, but he's like the thing to always hold hold to yourself is it always feels the same, like the 5k is always going to be the 5k right, and yes, it'll take you longer, and blah, blah but it's still gonna hurt, but it's still the same hurt.
Speaker 2:It's like the like if you go out and do a mile, that burn in your lungs is always gonna feel the same if you're putting in the same effort. Gotcha, and it's it. At the time I was like I was young enough to like okay, obviously cognitively know what he means, but like, oh, dude, that's still got to blow yeah, I just couldn't get that out of my head.
Speaker 2:We're talking like 15 years went by, or something. Now I see it differently. And now I look at this and say well, not only have I not done much in trails, but all this other stuff we just talked about masters. It's like you know. You know, I think people have had too limited of a mindset Big time. We've looked at pros where it's like, yeah, basketball players probably be done at 35. Yeah, some are making it with bronze, doing some crazy stuff. Well, like you know well, like when, I I don't know.
Speaker 1:I just started in the last few months really liked fighting. I don't know why, but anyway, you see guys that like make championship level. You know they become the champion of their division. Nobody's there after 35, you get knocked out and then it's over. Yeah, yeah, and it's like how do you? It seems to be the magic number. No one's defending the title over 35.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I think running goes against just—. You can draw from other sports, yeah, I just. When you look at the other sports it's like, okay, we'll take the top person in everything. Let's take Galen Rupp.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, he's like a year and a half or a year and a quarter older than me, okay, and it's like we don't know what he's going to do. He's probably close to retiring, wow, okay, I think he's exactly my age. Anyway, obviously these are top people that hold in the Olympics. Yeah, we're talking literally. I mean, like up to this point you could say Galen's the best distance runner in America.
Speaker 1:He's over, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know like obviously there's different things Ryan Hall and the marathon and all that stuff but like enough to make our point and it's like like okay, so that makes sense. We're literally talking and we're and let's just call it what it is there's people that are doping, yeah. So whether that's him or not, that's what you're fighting against. Yep, that's not what we're talking about. You know. So for like 99 of people, it's like you're not fighting against that clock. Right. The same way, now your life circumstances come into play, like I'm assuming at some point I'll get married and have kids. That obviously adds an element.
Speaker 1:It's going to make you a little more tired.
Speaker 2:You know like you're going to have less sleep in the set than the other. So it's like always I mean to many things we've said today always look at your own situation and try to be realistic with what you can handle, what training load you can handle, this, that and the other. But try not to look at father time as like this, you know, demonic, like force that's going to like ruin your wife. It's like, yeah, I mean he's coming, but like I think we've been so narrow-minded as a society for so long, as well as in the running industry, where it's just like, oh, I just run a lot and stuff and it's like, well, that's why people are slowing down at 30-something, right, because when you don't work on your joints and power and all that stuff, well, yeah, you're going to feel like creaky, yeah, and if you eat like crap, you're really going to feel like shit, you know. So, anyway, like we could, I don't want to go into that again.
Speaker 1:We can do that another time or something, but like that we'll have round two.
Speaker 2:I think that definitely is something that's overlooked and you are seeing in the pro sports still to. To finish out that thought there are people that do pull it off. Yeah, I mean Yarmir yager and hockey. I'm a big hockey fan, he's 50 something, yeah, and he's still. It's an animal like. He just started talking again to an nhl team. Wait, wasn't he. He was on the panthers or, uh, penguins, but, yes, but yes, he wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he wasn't. This is when I lived in south florida. He was in the panthers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I watched him play one time against the wings a few years ago. But I mean he has it's. It's pretty remarkable and it's easy to overlook. Yeah, but gordy, how did that? He was 51 or 2 when he played in his last all-star game. Yeah, jesus christ, you know. And so it's like, yes, these are anomaly scenarios, but that's already at the level that can't happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where that that?
Speaker 2:oh, that just can't happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy dude Anyway dude on that note um, let's start winding down, do you want to plug anything. Anything you want, let's plug the business. Let's plug your socials yeah that's good yeah. Good call.
Speaker 2:Um, so I, on the note that I mentioned earlier, as far as runners go, uh, I have been slowly implementing small group strength classes for runners. I just recently worked at um. I did a free, a free night at the Colorado running company and I'm going to be working with them a little bit more regularly. We're trying to figure that out, um. But uh, as far as classes and things go on one-on-ones, like if if you're looking for, um, anything from like hey, I want to qualify for Boston, to like hey, you kind of sparked something with this whole speed thing and I don't I've never lifted a weight and stuff like that I would say start the process now, come in, do an assessment with me and whatever that looks like for for that person.
Speaker 2:Um, but uh, I work out of a CrossFit gym, uh, near old Colorado city. It's called progressive fitness. I just rent my own space there. We got a few trainers and it's a. It's a great space, great place to be. It's near some trails too, so sweet. It's not not far from a red rock open space, okay, but but yeah, that's that's. That's one of the main things I'm trying to add this year. So, yeah, cool. And where can people find you on social media. Uh, the best place would be Instagram. Uh, it's a coach, jeff W Wilson. Uh, that's, I'd say 80, 90% of the stuff I post on there is, um, uh, running stuff, and then some of their personal crossover is me running anyway.
Speaker 1:So, but, yeah, that's, that's where I'm at dude, first of all, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:I cannot wait for round two already. Yeah, me too, man, I got to get.
Speaker 1:Sean in here. I'm going to get a bigger setup and I got some stuff planned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool, I'm excited for that Awesome man Well, thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, what'd you guys think? I told you it was an absolute banger of a conversation. Like I said, jeff is a good dude and he has absolutely encyclopedic knowledge. Really interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:Before we leave, I just want to go ahead and give him a little bit of a shout out and get some plugs as well. If you head on over to his Instagram, his Instagram is actually Coach Jeff W Wilson, that's going to be Coach C-O-A-C-H, jeff J-E-F-F, w and then Wilson W-I-L-S-O-N. Go ahead and find him on Instagram. And also don't forget to head on over to his practice, his personal training business. That's going to be totalbodyrunningcom.
Speaker 1:And if, hey, if you guys liked this episode, go ahead and give them a follow, send them a DM. If you're interested in working with them, reach out to them, but let them know if you like the episode. We will definitely be having a lot more conversations with Jeff as well. I think he's pretty close with Sean Rimmer, so we're going to be having some interesting convos from the strength and conditioning as well as the PT side as we progress forward and have some more conversations in the future. So I'm really looking forward to those. Um, thanks again, jeff for being on and, uh guys, hope you enjoyed this one, the steep stuff podcast episode six. Thank you you.