The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Michelino Sunseri | Grand Teton FKT Record Holder
Michelino Sunseri, the North Face athlete who just shattered the Fastest Known Time (FKT) on the Grand Teton, joins us for a thrilling episode. Discover the journey of this extraordinary runner, from his early days setting records at the RUT to his life-changing victories at races like Broken Arrow 46k and SpeedGoat 50K. Michelino opens up about his Italian roots, growing up, and his post-pandemic move to Driggs, Idaho. His unwavering spirit and infectious passion for the mountains will leave you inspired to pursue your own outdoor adventures.
We also take a lighthearted yet profound look at the world of trail running, unraveling Michelino’s transition from mountain trails to the concrete jungles of college life. Listen to amusing stories like running home from bars after losing a driver's license and the influence of an unconventional high school coach who emphasized trail running. Michelino shares his journey through ultra-marathons, the mentorship of Peter Fane, and his exhilarating races against elite competitors like Hayden Hawks and David Sinclair. The chapter reveals the mental fortitude and competitive spirit that drive Michelino's success in mountain running.
On top of epic running tales, we explore technical skiing and outdoor gear innovations, highlighting the creative genius of Kyle Siegel’s belt design. This episode also delves into wildlife encounters, from grizzly bear run-ins to the rich fauna of Wyoming. Finally, we venture into cosmic debates about aliens, living in a simulation, and the Mandela Effect. Don’t miss our preview of the elite athlete press conference and live race commentary at Pike's Peak Week. This episode is an adventure-packed blend of inspiration, humor, and a deep appreciation for the great outdoors.
What's up, guys? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I am your host, james Lauriello, and today we're bringing you something really special, none other than the wild man himself, because.
Speaker 2:I'm wild yeah.
Speaker 1:Mr Michelino Sonseri joins the podcast. The North Face athlete joins us fresh on the heels of his Grand Teton FKT that he set just last week and lowered by about two minutes the record that was previously held by Andy Anderson and held and helped before that by killian journee. Um guys, this is a really special episode. Mike and I got an opportunity to chat just before circ series grand targi. We didn't really get into the nuts and bolts of the grand teton fkt just because, you know, before he said it, mike wanted to keep that kind of close to the vest. But we get into into so many interesting conversations about how he got into the sport and just basically his ascent in the sport, which has been mind-boggling. You're talking course records at the RUT, 50k wins at Broken Arrow, 46k wins at Speed Goat, which really changed his life back in 2019. There's just so many great things to discuss here. Really, really, really fun episode. Mike has just an unshakable spirit and just an inspiring mindset.
Speaker 1:I was really just kind of left from this episode, just really excited to go play in the mountains, but just more determined than ever to go chase the things that excite me and I think that's what you guys will take away from this one, just from the heart, like one of the most inspiring episodes I've ever had. Um, mike's a good guy. Hope to have him back on. Um, he'll be. He'll be at the rut in a few weeks. So, yeah, hope you guys enjoy this one. I don't want to ramble too much longer um none other than Michelino's son Sari, fresh off of his FKT on the Grand Teton. Hope you guys enjoy Live.
Speaker 2:Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
Speaker 1:All right, we're doing this now, bro. This has been a long time in the making, stoked to finally have you on the podcast. Bro, been talking about it for a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:You were one of the first people I thought of, too, when I made this. I don't know. I feel like you're a pretty talkative person. You'd be a good fit for the podcast, so I'm glad we're able to get this done dude, hell yeah, yeah, bro, glad to finally make it happen so, dude, how do you? Do you go by michelino, or do you go by mike?
Speaker 2:uh, either or michelino or mike is, I'd say, like most, most close friends. All call me michelino okay um, yeah, mike's just easier. Sometimes, yeah, I don't know, working behind the bar like name tag wise, I'm always mike, because otherwise it's like literally spent 10 minutes every single day talking about oh how do you pronounce your?
Speaker 1:name yeah, it's always a conversation. It's always a conversation starter is that like a very traditional, because I come from like a very traditional italian background. Is that like a like hardcore, like italian name?
Speaker 2:uh, let's see michelino paolo, sinceri, holy shit dude yeah my parents went, went off. Yeah, friend, uh, my older brother, francesco michelino sinceri, oh my god I bet my oldest brother is nicolino sinceri, so we didn't get too creative, you know, third, third kid, they just changed one syllable are they like right off the boat kind of, or like italian?
Speaker 1:uh me no or no. I'm talking family like family uh parents, no, no, uh, grandparents yes same. That's all. That's all it is for me. Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine who's like full italian and his parents like we're gonna name him like gaetano rocco. Hell, yeah, some crazy fucking name. So yeah, it's uh interesting, that's uh it's kind of funny like culture wise.
Speaker 2:I mean what I'd say? Post-world war ii everybody coming over tried to americanize their names right, yeah, so like that's where we get all the damn steves and franks and like there's nothing wrong with that, that's cool, but I don't know. It's kind of I'm pretty stoked that my parents took the opposite approach, like yeah, let's just you know 180, that yeah, we're gonna go straight italian it's a serious name, dude, I gotta say it's oppressive, so serious, serious guy dude so, bro, you're, uh, you're, you're out here in driggs utah.
Speaker 1:It's the first time or sorry tricks, you told you driggs idaho, like first time I've been out here. Man, it's a cool town. How did you find this place like it's very it's a dope town, yeah, yeah, uh, 2020, post-covid fall.
Speaker 2:Uh, me and the then girlfriend were looking for somewhere to move. We're trying to get out of tahoe because tahoe, kind of it, just blew up, you know. I mean there's what population within a few hours of Tahoe is like 5 million people, so we were trying to get the hell out of there. She has two good friends live in Jake, that live in Victor. So we stopped here along the way and, while we were here, super cool story. I was actually.
Speaker 2:That's when I first, you know, got my eyes on the Tetons and I was like you know what? I really, while we're here, I really want to go for some FKT. So I started looking at, you know, fkt website, pulling up different routes. At first I, you know, saw the Grand Teton. I was like, oh, that's dope, like I should go for that.
Speaker 2:Talked to my buddy, chris, and he's like dude, he's like there's no way you can do that, like that's not happening. He's like you can't just on on site the grand teton and expect that. I was like okay, okay. I was like what about this one? Uh, teton crest trail. I was like, okay, cool, super runnable 40, 40 ish, just under 40 miles, 9 000 feet of climbing, uh, and that summer it had changed hands like four different times.
Speaker 2:So I was like, sweet, like you know, 2020 it's kind of the summer of fkt's. Everybody's going after that stuff. So yeah, long story short, pop into Victor, spend a couple days hanging out, float the river, chill with friends, get some Thai food. I was like, okay, cool, like tomorrow morning I want to go for this FKT. So Jake worked over in Jackson at the time, so he dropped me off at the trailhead 7 am or so, and then Jackson at the time, so he dropped me off at the trailhead 7 am or so, and then, yeah, went off, went for it. Uh, I would say the route itself. Like I never dealt with grizzly bears, so I was a little, a little like a little scared of that, because I've never lived in an area where there's grizzlies.
Speaker 2:So I was like, oh man, like a little on edge for you know the first half of it, and then finally kind of let loose a little bit. I was like like okay, cool, whatever, uh, but something about that run. I remember exactly where I was. There's a spot of it called sunset Lake. It's just kind of when you're leaving Alaska basin, uh got to sunset Lake, you know, filtered some water, had some snacks, run up through this neat little spring, go all the way up onto Hurricane Pass. So crested Hurricane Pass and as you're coming up and over Hurricane Pass, it's like everything opens up Grand Middle South are there to your right, cascade Canyon's in front of you, beautiful Alpine Lakes, and like all of a sudden, like the hairs on the back of my neck started standing up and like just had like this energy about it. That I was like, yeah, I need to move here. Like this is it? I?
Speaker 2:was in the middle of that run and I was just like this is it man? Like I want to be here. So then yeah, freaking, yeah, the legs were just felt great the rest of the day, like just really loved it, soaked in the energy. Uh, finished the run, barely got the fkt, uh. And then what we decided after that we're like you know, we don't really like. Do we really want to go check out all these other places? Like we should just settle here like the very first stop of our road trip, uh.
Speaker 2:So we checked out a couple more spots, saw some friends and then, literally on the drive home, found a place. We hadn't even got back to tahoe yet. We're leaving, I think we're. We just left colorado, get back on 80 or wherever. We were in the middle of Nevada and uh, signed a lease electronically before even getting home. Uh, found a job or applied for jobs, found a couple, and then, yeah, got back to Tahoe and then I think I went and ran a race the next weekend two weeks from there and then a week later had the U-Haul packed and wound up in victor idaho. Holy shit, dude yeah, and it happened just like bang, bang, bang.
Speaker 2:So quick, wow, and it was yeah you've got what now?
Speaker 1:four years going on five, something like that four years now yeah, wow, yeah, dude, I, I get it like it was kind of uh, almost semi-depressing to me, like when I saw all like the new builds popping up, so kind of like blew my mind that now I guess everybody's starting to figure this place out and come out to this valley I mean it's beautiful, it is like actually, no, it sucks does anyone listen? Do not come here, it's over.
Speaker 2:There's too many people, but no, in all in all earnest, it's actually I. I don't see myself leaving anytime soon because I honestly can't think of anywhere else.
Speaker 1:I'd rather be I mean, you have it all, dude. I mean from a skiing perspective, like you've got some of the best skiing in the world out here, oh yeah. And then from a running perspective, like it's in my opinion now, after kind of playing around the last few days, I was like wow, this kind of reminds me of europe, like it's got europe vibes, oh for sure, like the grand. I mean just that skyline in general to me is like the closest thing I've ever seen, that like kind of resembles like Mont Blanc in America.
Speaker 2:For sure, Kind of dope. The relief is amazing. I mean there's so many peaks and places you can go climb 5,000 to 7,000 feet and it's like straight up to like perfect, perfect for mountain running, yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 1:So, dude, on that topic for mountain running, like you've been like on a tear since like 2019. I mean like you popped onto the scene with like a dub at speed goat, you took some like would you get second at the broken arrow 46 game? Like to like hayden hawks back in the day? Yeah, um was the.
Speaker 2:That was also the first and last time I ever beat david too david sinclair at that race.
Speaker 1:He's kicked my butt every time since man.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, I can't wait to get back and race him again when we're both at full strength?
Speaker 1:dude and what he did at speed goat this year blew my mind absolutely unreal. What the fuck? He's, he's, he's on one, yeah, yeah I just um, oh my god, who was I talking to that? Grant barnett. The other day we were chatting about him at speed goat yep, um, because, grant, I think he got. I think he ran in the top five or something like that, and that's what he said to me. He's like I've never seen anything in my life like that yeah, david's, david's.
Speaker 2:On another level, if he can stay healthy, he's easily one of the best in the world.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, for sure, for sure now he's like got rock and he's like having fun with it, dude. He's like rocking floral shirts and shaving his head at the fucking start line. What a wild boy. Um, yeah, dude, like I feel like you've been like one of the most notable mountain runners, in my opinion, in america. That like doesn't have this like gigantic following, but you're out there doing all these insane things and like like took first at the rut last year. Was it last year?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it was last year right at the dk 20, 2021 and last year and last year like dude, like what do you got to say about that?
Speaker 1:like talk to me about you know, talk to me about your training, how you got into running like kind of unpack, uh, because there's a lot it's a lot.
Speaker 2:I don't know a lot. I don't know about you. Oh, there's a lot, dude. Uh, I mean, where do we start? Uh, no, like literally, where do we start? All right, let's talk about this, let's let's go from, let's start from.
Speaker 1:Uh, how did you get into running like did you run cross country and uh, okay, yeah, so actually I got into running.
Speaker 2:Uh, actually, one of my good friends moms, actually she was my teacher back in sixth grade, fifth grade, fourth grade, I don't freaking know, but you know this presidential fitness test we had to do like you had to go, like run the mile, do pushups, do pull ups, see how if you could touch your toes and all that stuff. Uh, ran the mile and my teacher at the time she's like hey, that was really quick. I have no idea what the time was, um, but from that point forward she's like hey, I think you should do this, like you should probably, you know, enter some races, cross country track, all that good stuff. Um, but I didn't. So it actually took a few years. Uh, you know, I grew up playing soccer, uh, mostly soccer really, uh, kind of rode bikes a little bit like nothing too.
Speaker 2:I wasn't really super athletic. I wouldn't say, um, yeah, I don't. I didn't actually run in school until eighth grade. So eighth grade went into cross country, um, I think I made it to state anyways, it was really fun, like the? Uh, the trails right by. Uh, I went to. I was an incline, incline. Really fun, like the? Uh, the trails right by. Uh, I went to I was an inclined, inclined middle school in eighth grade. Um, the trails right by the middle school were, you know, flowy, dreamy, super fun, like we had an amazing coach. Um, so that's kind of.
Speaker 2:When I started ran cross country track. Uh, freshman year of high school, I really wanted to play football. For some reason and I'm, you know, at the time I was probably, you know, 125 pounds soaking wet. So I was like, yeah, you dude, you should be playing football. But I did, uh, got my ass handed to me. Uh, it was not fun. But during I can't remember what we call it, but like the endurance aspect of you know, of our training and practice, whatever, we'd run around the field and like with pads on and cleats and everything, I literally was lapping every single person on the team, like, just like absolutely lapping people and like, what the like? What are you doing here, dude? Like, what are you doing here? Like you should be running cross country? This is silly. Um, but I got on the field three times. Uh, literally got thrown around like a fucking rag doll like there's no, no way, no reason for me to be playing that sport.
Speaker 2:That was the last time I played football. Uh, did track freshman year and then I guess the rest is the rest is history just started running from there. Wow, uh, yeah. Sophomore, sophomore year, cross country track and then all the way through college um yeah, I'd say college was not great.
Speaker 1:That's what everybody says everybody hates college for me great, that's what everybody says.
Speaker 2:Everybody hates college. For me, like it was, I don't know, dude, like it's really hard growing up in the mountains, growing up on trails, like you know, using your legs in a way that I think they're supposed to be used, and like using your body in a way you're I think it's supposed to be used, not running on fucking golf courses and concrete jungle and like tow paths and like I don't know I would get injured every single year. I never finished a year in college. I always injured halfway through cross country, never finished out.
Speaker 2:Um, what is always trying to fight back for, uh, indoor and outdoor, I, I can say I don't even think I ran more than five races on the track in college. Like it was just completely broken. You know, like something about running in city, the running in the city, running, and all that just was not okay with my body. So, yeah, I'd come back home, go back to Tahoe every single summer and when I was in the mountains, on the trails, you know, dodging rocks, jumping over trees, fricking, running down scree fields and like all that stupid shit, like things felt good. You know, like I was always healthy, right?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, college, uh, senior year I actually quit, um, so I gave up running, uh, kind of, you know, got into a lot of other things, uh non-running related, um, and yeah, the next, I think probably the next five, four, five years didn't really run. The only time I'd run from there was, you know, four, five, six o'clock in the morning, back home from the casinos or the bar. I'd usually like early 20s most of the time. Well, I lost my license actually, so I didn't have it, I could not drive, so a lot of the time I was, you know, putting on running shoes to go out, just so I could run home, just get to a to b, yeah, just so I could run home that day or that night morning, whatever it would you know, like floyd, mayer, mayweather, like running home from the bar dude, oh, 100 dude, like literally it's I honestly, I was talking about this with a buddy the other day.
Speaker 2:I wish I had strava back then because, like I would just have the dumbest runs. Like, dude, what are you what? Like, what is this this kid doing? Why did you pull over for five minutes in the in a bush? Like what's going on? Dude, it's three in the morning. Like, yeah, good times, dude that's funny, dude.
Speaker 1:Um, so you always like the trails, like then. Like I mean tahoe, I feel like it's just being a mountain town. I feel like for anybody that grows up in the mountains, things like that become second nature. You learn ski culture, you learn to be on the trails, whether it be hiking, could be running, whatever, um, or some sort of mountain activity like. So trail running for you, then you've kind of discovered at a young age then, right, oh for sure yeah, well, um, I had an amazing high school coach, uh bill divine.
Speaker 2:Uh, bill would take us like he wasn't you know, we wouldn't do traditional things that most, uh, high school cross-country kids were doing. Like he'd take us. All of everything was on trails, like. Like we'd go up to the flume trail, we'd go run up on Mount Rose, we'd go to the waterfall trail, like we're always on trails for pretty much all of high school, like only our, you know, super chill, easy days or days we're doing workouts on the track, we're, um, you know, on the tracker on the road. Uh, so all the fun memorative, like really, really you know. Uh, so all the fun memorative, like really, really, you know, important pieces of training were always on the trails and I think you know that definitely played a huge influence.
Speaker 1:So how did you get back into trail running then, after like four or five years of being a wild boy, like what, what did you? Uh, what did you like? What brought you back to the to trail?
Speaker 2:running. Uh yeah, I guess may as well be totally honest. Um a really good acid trip, dude.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I was hanging out with a few buddies and, uh, we were going to go for a hike that day. So that was like 9am, so we dropped a couple of tabs acid and uh, started going on our hike and we're all hanging out. We get up to paraglider, point up above a crystal Bay club and I was with uh, uh, nick Kalin and uh Colby, and I think there's one other person there but, um, we all brought our dogs. We're all hanging out like super fun time. But all of a sudden I just kind of like got this urge to go run around, like like I don't, I don't know, so went for, you know, went for a nice long run and just like bopping around on all these trails that I grew up on, and just running around on the trails and you know, eventually I was like, oh man, like I'm a little thirsty. So, you know, look down the lakes, lake's probably, like you know, 1,000, 1,500 feet down below. So like I'm going to drink from the water. And you know, go jump in the water and go cool off and did that.
Speaker 2:So, you know, me and my dog Thor, we ran down to the lake, jumped in the water at Bucks Beach, hung out for a while and like I don't know know, I recall this lady that was there. That was just like staring at me like I was some kind of savage. I was just like like just drinking cups of you know handfuls of water from the lake and like hanging out with my dog and just probably chattering, complete gibberish and nonsense. Um, so then I was like you know cool. So look back up paraglider point. I was like all right, cool, let's go run back up there. So I ran was like you know cool, so look back up paraglider point. I was like all right, cool, let's go run back up there. So I ran back up and, you know, kept tooling around with that and yeah, honestly, that and strangely enough, was the moment I kind of fell back in love with running in the mountains.
Speaker 1:That is crazy, that is the wildest story anyone has ever told me. Usually it's like oh, like you know, I grew up there. I'll go back and run yada, yada, yada, but like, dude, it's kind of crazy. Like I wonder if that like did anything to your neural pathways to like like a reassociate trail running with like a certain, yeah, associate trail running with like happiness yeah, that's what I'm saying like 100.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, that's crazy, because I've heard people like on like doing mushrooms and stuff like that, that have had similar experiences. So it's interesting how psychedelics become oh it's, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's a very fun part of running.
Speaker 1:I've never had that happen to me, man.
Speaker 2:I'm a little jealous now, like well, it's like I, and the thing is like, it's not like I don't. I don't do that a lot since then, but that was enough to, like you know, light the flame again I love it that was enough to be like all right, like this I.
Speaker 2:it's great that now I can achieve that same exact feeling without needing any of that. You know, like that same exact feeling from, just you know, being up high on ridgelines, like literally the teton crest trail, running up over Hurricane Pass into the canyon there. That's that same exact feeling for me, dude. Yeah, it's just like makes everything you know happy, it's like euphoric yeah, so euphoric.
Speaker 1:Interesting for me, then, how we go from, how we go from that experience to, like 2019, speed goat, where you take the dub uh in a very convincing fashion and kind of put yourself on the map in a lot of ways in the sport for sure, um, it wasn't, definitely wasn't a straightforward trajectory from that day till speed goat.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of ups and downs, like a lot of still a lot of bullshit, like I've that would. It wasn't like there's ever been a moment where it was, like you know, flip the switch, like you know, we're done with this part of your life and we're into this part of your life. There's a lot of in between, you know there's still occasionally some in between, but from from there, I I don't recall if it was that exact year that I decided to sign up for, uh, uh, I think they may have changed the name now, but at the time it was the squaw valley mountain run, okay, which was a race that I grew up doing. So, like high school, my, uh, my coach, bill divine, he got me into doing that, so did it a couple times in high school. I think he did it a couple times in college as well, um, but I don't know if it's like I said.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's that year. The year after that I decided to go do that and that was the first race back for me, since I don't even know. I don't even know I'd have to go look into that. Um, but like I said, there's been a lot of in between, you know the whole partying and then the professional running, so literally that race, the first race back. I think I was up till three or four in the morning doing blow Like literally.
Speaker 2:And then I went and raced, still raced. You know I was at the starting line at 9am and it was by far the worst time and the worst experience I think I have ever had in a race, Like I had never my high school so my high school self would have absolutely crushed me. Like I think I was the slowest, like four or five minutes. Like I think I still got like fifth or sixth place, which is great, but I'm a very uber competitive person like if I'm gonna sign up for a race like I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go for the win like there's like I'm not, I'm not, uh, fighting for second all or nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm not trying to.
Speaker 2:You know I'm trying to be the best and win, you know. So, yeah, so that wasn't great, that was not a good feeling, uh. So I think after that I I definitely did change my perspective a little bit. Um started being like, hey, like I actually really love this, like I think I'm going to, you know, probably tailor down this other shit that I'm doing and really try to focus in on it. Um, so 20, like I guess, fast fast forward 2018 started doing quite a bit more racing and running.
Speaker 2:Um, very unstructured, doing quite a bit more racing and running. Um very unstructured. Um, I was taking a lot of tips from. Uh, peter Fane at the time has been a huge role model of mine for years. Like you know, I've known. I've known him and known about him since high school. Um, growing up in Tahoe. He's, like you know, he's kind of, in my opinion, he's a you know, tahoe and Sierra ultra marathon legend. Like, just cause he's such a great guy. Um, he's also a bartender, which is cool. Like we click, we have so much in common. He's, you know, loves dogs, has a lot of dogs, loves to bartend, loves to run Um, so he was helping me out with a lot of my training back then.
Speaker 2:Um, so 2018, I ran, ended up signing up for and racing my first 50 K. Um, never ran that far in my life. Always told myself in college that I'm never going to run a marathon. That's so stupid. Why would I run that far? Uh, but yeah, um, signed up for 50 K. Had no idea what I was doing. Uh, cramped up so hard 18 miles in laying on the side of the trail, unable to move my legs, like absolutely heinous. Like I went out, like I said I'm super competitive so I went for the win and uh, stephen kirsch, I think, actually won that.
Speaker 2:That oh shit so I was trying to race him and, uh, I got humbled, dude, I got humbled like I got absolutely destroyed, limped into the finish, still finished. But then, yeah, that was another one of those experiences that was like, hey, man, like you need to learn how to do this right, like you can't just fuck around and just show up and pretend like you're doing, okay, like you have to.
Speaker 2:You know you gotta nail it. So yeah, yeah, another moment. Started taking training a lot more seriously, did a a couple more races that spring.
Speaker 2:Um, I think I got a tim tollison course record that spring haha, tim gotcha and then uh ran, uh, way too cool and that wasn't great, but it was still fine a learning experience. Um, and then, from what? Way too cool ran, broken arrow, and that's, you know, broken arrow. Those style of races is way more my. You know, that's more my forte. Um, the fast runnable stuff I try to avoid I mean you still did.
Speaker 1:I mean way too cool, didn't you? You got like top 15, didn't you? Or something like that? Or top 20, I think it was. Hey, maybe top 10. I mean you're talking like some of the best marathoners around are running that race because it's so flat, so it's still pretty freaking solid. I get high expectations. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Good enough, dude. I like it, dude. I like it.
Speaker 2:Not good enough uh, yeah, broken arrow training, though, was you know more my forte dude just being up in the mountains, like playing on trails up high running, uphill, sprinting, downhill, beating yourself up and, like you know, like really just beating the legs into submission. Yeah, like that's always been kind of my uh, my training style. I guess you'd say, um, so yeah, went from that, had a good showing at broken arrow, which was way better than I thought I would do, so I was pretty jacked on that was that the year you took second to hayden?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, 2019, hayden's fucking nasty bro. That's dude, he's still.
Speaker 1:He's still beating me by like 20 minutes he still kicked my ass, dude, but still, maybe it was less, maybe it was like, maybe it was 18 minutes, who knows? Man, I mean, he's like he's up there, oh, he's world class. Yeah, he's like. Yeah, he's world class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had. We actually raced the first half, the first loop. We ran together almost the entire time, Wow. But then the second loop, which is you know what Broken Arrow is known for, is that second loop and kind of just really just taking you down, um, it kicked my ass and he dropped me pretty hard. Um, david passed me too, um, so I was in third for a while and then, uh, the last mile, I caught david on this, I think anime flynn has a cool video of it. The second I overtook david and just like sprinting into the finish, and then maj got a cool gopro video of me finishing and I was just so jacked up, yeah, I was just like cursing, I was like fuck, yeah, like let's fucking go, dude, like just getting after it and uh, yeah, that was it. That was a sick day do you like one of?
Speaker 1:the sick day I think you're the only person I've ever met that has actually beat david sinclair in a race it's kind of wild to think about there's not a lot of them.
Speaker 2:No, there's not that many floating around yeah, I mean, we'll see, that was five years ago, so yeah, damn hasn't happened since.
Speaker 1:Uh you never know, never know, never know. I did yeah only only getting stronger, hopefully so you go from broken arrow then and and then wait, so it was broken arrow 2018 or 2019, 2019 20, so from there I did race it in 2018, but did the vk in 28k okay um, I think I have fourth in the 28k, which is still pretty dope. Yeah, that's back when, like I think, like ryan phoebus was at like the height of his powers. Oh yeah, there's some stods out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, phoebus beat me in the vk that year and I think he got second or third in the 28k. Yeah, yeah, max and cole watson um both crushed that.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's back when cole used to do short stuff. That's crazy yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy how quick time flies. Yeah, five years, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, dude, then you go to speed goat and that's like a life-changing experience for you in a lot of ways, I would imagine that was definitely yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:I, like I said, I always have pretty damn high expectations of myself, so I went into speed goat with, uh, jim Walmsley splits all written down, wow. So I had his time in my head. I wasn't close, I was nine minutes off, but still like, I was pretty stoked with that and I think that that race definitely opened a lot of doors. I mean I so my current current trail manager, esther. Um, I met her in 2019 at broken arrow, started chatting with her then when she was with Solomon, or way too cool, actually, I started chatting with her. Um, she lived in Truckee at the time. Um, yeah, she kind of told me that she was going to be like hey, I'm leaving Solomon, I'm going to go working for North face. Um, do you have any interest in possibly, you know, joining the team next year? I was like what? Like wait, is this a joke? Are you serious?
Speaker 1:Like holy, holy shit, why would?
Speaker 2:you want me on your team. That's weird. It was, like you know, of course, not gonna say no to that opportunity. Um. So, yeah, speed goat definitely helped with that. Um, I think I had one more race that year at pike's peak I may have raced again in the in the fall I don't really recall.
Speaker 2:I think he did a 50 miler maybe, but anyways, um, yeah, pike's peak went well, got top 10 the year. Killian did it. It's like killian sage, a bunch of the european guys that came over and kicked ass there, holy shit.
Speaker 1:So that was the big year of the marathon, the last time the marathon. It might have been the last time the marathon was the golden trail series race, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:It was, yeah, I remember having to get I thought I was gonna get drug tested. So I was freaking the fuck out. I was like like I yeah I think anybody who, anybody who knows me, uh, knows that I've been a low-key stoner for most of my life like so, like I was going into that race, I was like, oh man, like I'm gonna get in trouble, it's not going to happen. And then all they do is give you a little finger prick and they test your hemoglobin levels. So I was like okay, I was just losing my mind for no reason. Like just yeah, but yeah, no, that ended up being a good race. And then from there, I really kind of just yeah, things just fell into place really naturally, and 2020 rolled around.
Speaker 2:Our early, I guess what November, december I was chatting with Esther again ended up getting a contract with North Face in 2020. And I think that was a huge pivot and a lot, of, a lot of areas of life I mean COVID year. So like obviously, that's, you know, been really it was really hard on a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, that was, that was a huge change. Yeah, 2020, uh, no racing really tried to do some FKT stuff. That's when I did Teton Crest Trail, moved out here to Driggs. Yeah, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1:Fast forward here we are.
Speaker 2:Fast forward, dude A few years, won a few more races, ran a couple more rocks.
Speaker 1:It's crazy and dude. Kudos to Esther. I feel like I haven't met her in person yet.
Speaker 2:I will at um pikes because north face is sponsoring pikes this year and I'm doing like a live podcast there but like, oh, no way, yeah, oh, yeah, I forgot, I'll tell you that we'll talk about this later.
Speaker 1:But like, all right, dude, like I don't know you, seth jen lichner, like dude, that class that they she picked up, like over that course of like those two or three year period, like britney charbonneau.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, like she's got three year period, like right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, like she's got to take, like I always like appreciate it yeah, Just like an eye for for talent, like just crazy freak athletes Like uh not only that, like I, I love our team. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like when we are able to get together and all hang out like it's a family, the family dude. I bet I'm so happy that you know esther's kind of the. You know she's the glue that made it all happen, like she built that team and like I'm so grateful for it yes, those are my favorite people like just so many, uh, so many killers, dude just name.
Speaker 1:We could just name everybody yeah, everybody kicks ass and they're good people and it's a good like brand fit. I don't know like, when I think of like an all-around matt athlete, like I don't know, like someone like you definitely comes to mind, just because you kind of do it all Like you're. You're really big into skiing, you live in a place that's like some of the you know got some of the best skiing in the world, and then you're also this world-class mountain runner. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:It kind of very, very well yeah, I mean it's. It's nice too that it's you know, natural it's supported, it's, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome mountains are cool dude.
Speaker 1:I really like. I really like rocks dude, whether they're whether dry or covered in snow rocks are fun. So, dude, talk to me. Let's transition to skiing that, like I know, you do a lot of I wouldn't necessarily say schemo, but a lot of backcountry, correct? Like you're doing most. Do you do any schemo stuff or no? No, I'm not into it.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be into it. It's not nothing against schemo, it's just not a fit for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I, I do, like I like to be competitive, but I don't want to ski competitively you know, I don't want to race uphill on skinny skis, like I'm more in it for the downhill, like the uphill is great. Like yeah, I'm getting more fit, I'm getting stronger for summer, even winter objectives. But I don't know man just floating on big old fat sticks and you know riding my 120s or you know 108s, like I'm more into that, and just floating through you know delicious powder like it's so much better.
Speaker 1:What kind of objectives, like, do you like set forth, like over the winter and stuff like that? Like what's a few things that like you did like this past winter in the?
Speaker 2:past. Um, so here it's been. I've been definitely wanting to and been getting more into the mountaineering side of things, the alpinism side of things Um, I guess the biggest objective this past winter finally skied the Grand Teton Um, so that was really dope. Did it with my good buddy, connor burksmith? Um, yeah, that was a really cool experience. Um, I never thought I'd be at a point in life where I'm starting to ski with ropes and pointy things, but here we are and I really enjoy it and like it's definitely a uh yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Man, that technical aspect is really interesting because, like, obviously skiing is much more technical than something like running. But then, like I don't know, I feel like you throw on harnesses and ropes and all that shit and it gets really complicated. I don't know, for me at least for average.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's what kind of? That's what I thought at first too, but just like anything like once you just throw yourself into it and start doing it. Yeah, you can, and like you know, I've had good, good friends along the way too like uh, you know some of my good buddies. Uh, connor brooksmith, uh, sam schwartz. Um, kyle siegel. Um, who's actually the owner of raid research?
Speaker 1:yeah, um dude we're having. He's coming on actually, oh, no way, a couple weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hell, yeah cool no, kyle's one of my uh good uh ski partners did he send you a belt, yet? Maybe I got.
Speaker 1:I have one in the other room, dude, they're fucking sick man they're, they're pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's, he's doing a good job it's a little big.
Speaker 1:That's why I was like I don't think I'll race in it tomorrow, but like dude for like anything, like any, like long objective or like moderate objective, like that's a serious belt man it's. It's probably the best on the market yeah, it is the best on the market, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting yeah a little like my. My only feedback to him, which he took fine, he's like yeah, I totally agree, it's a little heavy, yes, but at the same time, what it offers in terms of utility support, uh, it doesn't scrunch up like the naked belt, like a lot of other belts are. Just feel like they're made with cheap ass fabric where his like, because it's heavy and has that. You know what is it? That little like not I don't want to say plate, but like that little support in the back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it keeps it yeah yeah, it keeps it.
Speaker 2:Really it's a good belt I took it.
Speaker 1:What was it? Yesterday? I did it. I brought it with me on the course because I needed a little. It's funny enough. I said this like I brought bear spray with me just because, like the guy who owns this place is like dude, you should really like I'm like I don't know, I've never, I've never like been in grizzly bear territory before and I'm like I'm inbounds at a ski area, but should I still bring, like I don't even know how to fucking use it, but like throw the, throw the can for the best. Um, but like I brought a bunch of shit like that and like a jacket with me and I just like was amazed, like, and I was continued just to be amazed there's no bounce to it at all, zero bounce. Yeah, it's a great, like well-made product yeah, yeah, he's kicking ass I do.
Speaker 1:I honestly have like five friends that have all ordered them, so I'm sure he's he's killing it like well, I mean well, the best part about his business right now is it's kind of a passion project.
Speaker 2:at this point I don't know. I mean I could be totally wrong. He's not making a lot of money off of it. Everything he's making goes straight back into the business.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. He's doing it because he loves it yeah.
Speaker 2:He's doing it because he loves the culture, he loves the tools he he's like, he has that like he he works in. I'm pretty damn sure kyle works in coding like he's in. I think he's in the tech world, but he has that engineer mindset where it's like kind of constantly toying with things. Like I remember when he was making the belt, he's, you know, sending me videos and asking like, oh, what do you think of this, this and this? Like he's, he really gets invested yeah, it's pretty.
Speaker 1:You could tell it's made by an athlete, just by the way, Like I don't know. Um, I don't know I do. I have so many like I'm a big belt guy, Like whether it's like the normal belt. I have like a gazillion ultimate direction belts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Then, uh, you name it, but like, like this is, it's good, this was really well made yeah, it's really well made.
Speaker 2:It's where it's worth the price. It's a little.
Speaker 1:It's a little hefty comparatively to the to the rest of the market, but but dude, you won't have to buy another like you're not gonna have to get another because it's a shit belt you know, like the?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of shitty ones out there 100 the other thing too is like, like you said, it'll last forever and it's like really quality, like I don't know it's. I don't know if it's necessarily a rip stop material, but I just feel like that's, I don't know, since when do you? I'll like rip little pieces of a belt, but I've never like fully destroyed a belt, so I feel like you'll have it.
Speaker 2:Most people have it forever you know, you just need one.
Speaker 1:Oh, totally, yeah, yeah, so that's cool, I didn't know you knew him.
Speaker 2:That's funny yeah, I was a good buddy. I was literally texting him this morning, did you?
Speaker 1:uh, do you have you used this like their ski packs and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:or I haven't used the ski packs. Okay, no, um, I I dig my north face ski pack. It's pretty legit.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know they made ski packs. That's cool north face, yeah what I know they make everything. I know they have like tents and shit, but dude, oh yeah like a lot of yeah, tnf has some pretty badass good gear yeah, oh yeah, that's cool man. Do they ever take you? Do you like go to headquarters in denver ever? Do they like make you guys go out there our?
Speaker 2:uh, our summit this year is that the first day is at the headquarters. Oh shit which would be cool. Yeah, I've. I've been outside, I've walked by it, I've never been in, but they have literally all of the global athletes coming and going to the uh headquarters this october with honnold dude yeah, there you go get like selfies with honnold dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I shook, I'll never I'll between him, jim morrison and jimmy chin shaking all their hands dude, I just like felt so inferior yeah, I dude, I, I feel like holy shit, like you guys are, I don't know. Those climber hands, dude, those mountaineer hands, they're like freaking jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, those are like I don't know, like our sport is so young still that you know like climbing has achieved like such superstardom like jimmy's, an oscar winner, so was honnold at this point so crazy, like that level and you know, just like everything they've done with their careers, like I don't know. Like I look at myself and I'm like, oh yeah, I can understand how you would feel yeah, like fuck.
Speaker 2:I mean our, our sport is small comparatively, but it doesn't mean that that same level of passion isn't still there that's true so I mean, I think that's what actually matters. You know who cares about the accolades?
Speaker 1:what do you think about the sport? Do you like want? I'm just curious, just because, like this has been such a hot button topic lately. Like what do you think about? Like them wanting to do the olympics and all that nonsense? Like what do you think about that? What do you mean? Like now they're there's like an official bid, I believe, that they wanted to put in place for trail running to go into the olympics oh, hell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. Are you in for that? I'm in for that, all right, I would. I would prefer if they, you know, went deeper and did some mountain running instead. That's what I'm saying trail running and mountain running are two separate things in my mind. Yeah, um, there's definitely some crossover. But yeah, mountain running will not be in the olympics while I'm still able to even try that's true.
Speaker 1:That's true. Yeah, I know I feel like we're like two decades away, probably something, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bummer I'm break dancing, though, dude yeah, it will be break dancing's dope.
Speaker 2:Though let's be real. Did you see the?
Speaker 1:australian lady this year like what the fuck was going on.
Speaker 2:Aren't they looking into that?
Speaker 1:like I think they they bounced it from the olympics.
Speaker 2:It's not in there anymore like they got rid of the sport. Okay, okay, yeah, we're done here, yeah yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like we have that sport, but like no offense to break dancers all around the world, but like I mean, come on, you look at our sport and it's like running.
Speaker 2:Running and wrestling are the two oldest sports in the history of humans. Right, like there's. Unless you want to call hunting a sport, right, you know right. But like yeah, how the hell are not all forms of that in the Olympics? I?
Speaker 1:agree, it should be. It's I don't know Like. And the thing is like I feel like the most primitive, the most basic, is something like a mountain running Because, yeah, they didn't have roads back in the day, you know like dirt roads, but like I don't know Like the the it's the most primal form of movement in a lot of ways 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:It's catching on, though man Like I, the more shit I see now is so crazy. I even saw something like on I follow. I think it's like uh was um the grantee, and they were talking about like trail runners in the park and how trail running is okay and I was like it's just interesting that like such a niche sport now has like gotten so big and like that's like such a common thing that people are thinking of when they come to the park or something like that for sure yeah, I like, whether you agree with them or not, I think uh debo saying you know trail running will save the world.
Speaker 2:I love that I love that dude, yeah like I've never met one shitty trail runner no like everybody's so chill, like everybody, you know, not only takes care of themselves and their own health which you know if everybody did that, like holy crap, the world would be such a great place but they take care of each other too, like we're all in this together, like it's such a amazing community of people that are like like yeah, like there's no, I don't know, there doesn't seem to be like a lot of animosity or like you know, dick measuring. No, like everybody's stoked for each other if I see it.
Speaker 1:I never see it like the tip of the spear in the sport. I'll see it like on in social media comments from like normies, if you will you know what I'm saying like for sure, but I don't know, like I've never met. I'm like, now that I've been around the block for a little bit, now I've met so many professional runners and yeah, everybody's really fucking cool man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't met any assholes. No, everybody's dope. It's a really cool community. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Dude on the topic of. I know I brought up grizzlies once already. I'm just so interested in this because, like yeah in colorado like we've got black bears and it's like a joke. I don't know.
Speaker 2:They're like big raccoons, I don't really I don't get scared with that trash bears, but yeah, right, but like dude, like it makes the mountains a little more wild.
Speaker 1:And having come here now from colorado, which is not that far away, and I was like man, like it had that extra sense of um uh, real dude yeah like I'm a little more careful. I was a little like a little bit more careful. Like both of my training run today, my shakeout yesterday, like looking around and shit like what are your thoughts on that? Like, do you does that like add a little extra like wildness to the?
Speaker 2:oh for sure, dude, oh yeah, uh, so I've. I've actually been living up on togedy pass for the last five, six weeks. Okay, um, is that where that wildfire is, or?
Speaker 2:yeah they are um, funny, not not funny story. But um, there's a big fire up there fish creek fire they. The day before they started evacuations, a ranger came to to my spot where I was posted up. She's like hey, just a heads up Shifting winds, we might be evacuating this area in the next 24 to 48 hours. Just wanted to let you know, just in case you have all your stuff together, just in case you got to get out of here. I was like, okay, cool, thank you, see you later.
Speaker 2:Next morning, which was two days ago now it's friday, recording on a friday. So wednesday, woke up to just absolutely apocalyptic uh smoke dude. Like so bad. Like woke up with the taste of smoke in my mouth and like, look over, couldn't even see the tapatogi pass, like could not see the mel mountains and I was like I was planning on staying another night and then coming back over here thursday to get some things done. And like I was just like, yeah, like I don't think one more night at altitude is worth breathing in all this smoke. Like I'm like you know, pack up the dogs, let's get the hell out of here. Um, so, yeah, ended up leaving that day. Later that afternoon they closed toggety pass, or maybe it was yesterday they closed it, but regardless they evacuated everybody. Um, closed toggety pass. Um, hopefully the bears are okay.
Speaker 2:There's a.
Speaker 2:There's a big mom and her two cubs.
Speaker 2:She was rolling around. I saw her a few times living up there, dude. One time I was actually. Uh, I was coming back, uh, from the lake. I was taking a little uh little bath up there, a little little lake dip, and uh, drove back to the trailer and as I get to the trailer, freaking mom and her two cubs are just not hanging out at the trailer but like 50 feet away, like close enough that I was like, all right, cool, I'm staying in the truck now. So I kind of just posted up, watched them, they hung out and yeah, I've seen her a couple more times after that. Yeah, yeah on the topic, on the topic of grizzly bears, yeah, she was, she's a sweetheart. It was actually really funny. The uh bear management. They have guys that roll, guys and gals that roll around in trucks and uh, whatever, uh, talking everybody about the bears and tracking the bears, making sure they know where they are, and uh, he came up and we were chatting about her and he's like, oh yeah, she's such a sweetheart like we love her like.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was like dude, that's a fucking grizzly bear like she's not a sweetheart, like it's like yeah, I guess maybe she's just, uh, you know, not used to humans, but knows that you know we're not gonna bug her, so she just keeps on doing her own thing. As long as you don't get in her way, yeah, but have you ever like ran up on one like, especially because you not a grizzly?
Speaker 1:no, not yet knock on wood. Yeah, seriously, like I don't want to, I don't know, because that's like everything, that's like in the back of my mind, like running up on one, like what the fuck do I do, man?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, I mean, I think, depending on the area you're in, having local knowledge of the areas is important, um, and if you don't have that knowledge and you don't know, why not carry it? Yeah, you should have it and you should know how to use it. Um, because it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, you don't want to be that guy, no, you don't be that guy that got mauled by a grizzly and didn't have his bear spray there was a dude that got mauled this year, I think, like not too on the other side, right oh yeah it's signal mountain lodge yeah, he had his bear spray too, the, and it actually ended up saving him because, uh, what he ended up doing is he put his head hands over his head with the bear spray, okay, and the bear punctured the can uh and that's what got the bear off of him, dude. He's so lucky so fucking could you.
Speaker 1:And they're so like I'm. Like I said, I've never seen a wild one in person, but we have them. This is hilarious. We have them at, like, the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado Springs. Dude, they're fucking huge. They're big. Oh my God, like I've run up on black bears Sharp claws.
Speaker 2:All the time.
Speaker 1:And black bears do not like. I'd rather like moose scare me more than like a black bear or like a mountain lion or something like that, but like that is a huge animal be walking around the woods.
Speaker 2:I was like what the?
Speaker 1:fuck yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got to be careful. Yeah, you got to know what to do for sure.
Speaker 1:That's so cool, like you've seen a few and like view them from afar and just like you know, just appreciate it. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny. It was like the last time I saw mom. I was early in the morning, it's like 6 30. I was getting up to you know, go for a run, get the day started, and uh, I was just in my boxers, bare feet, no shirt on, walk outside the trailer, got my little husky dash with me. So we like walk outside the trailer, I'm just like you know, go and pee and like kind of just out of it. And I look up and mom and her two cubs were just like I don't know pretty freaking close and dash is like staring at him, like all alert and like starts to run. I'm like dash, no, like luckily he just stopped and he's like what?
Speaker 2:like what, dad? He's a. He's a good boy he listens, if I had, if I had this one, if I had cody or thor, like oh dude, like they would have been after him so, yeah, that's terrifying too for your dogs, bro. Oh yeah, oh yeah, but we, yeah, he was fine, we got back in back in the trailer and posted up and chilled for a minute. Litter pass. It's crazy man, do you guys? You guys have Wolverines out here too, right.
Speaker 1:I've never seen one, but I'm pretty sure love the wild. It's just interesting to me. I think it's part of the reason, like why I love trail running so much is like I don't know, just the thought of like that crazy shit like rolling around in the woods.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, and uh like makes it a little more fun, 100% dude. Yeah yeah, and this is nothing against Colorado I love Colorado but like I think our population has just got so out of control. Like you see a lot less animals unless you're in like places like Estes Park with like the elk and stuff like that Dude. I was in Wyoming for like a day. I already saw like two rattlesnakes, bison, an elk, deer. Like it's crazy how much like megafauna you guys have out here adds to it all.
Speaker 1:I mean it makes it feel more real, more natural. I mean I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a wild place, bro. Oh yeah, so you ready for? Uh, you stuck to race tomorrow ready?
Speaker 2:yeah, a little cirque series actually rip the band-aid off. Yeah, go race six and a half miles real hard. It's gonna hurt. It's gonna hurt bad fun yeah, what do you?
Speaker 1:what's a rasty shoe for you like? What do you wear from the north face?
Speaker 2:uh, I'll, I'll go in my uh uh vective skies okay, yeah, kind of lower profile, lightweight. Um, yeah, they just have it. I don't know they got a good ground feel to them. Super responsive I'm. I've always loved racing and I can't do big bulky shoes. Really, yeah, like, unless it's going to be like a super long run or recovery day or something, I like that low profile ground feel. Um, yeah, I'll race in those skies, it's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially, there's like some technical like right off of like Mary's nipples, like a pseudo trail, and then I feel like there's, that's what I've been trying on, like what I want to use from sportiva, like the mutants or the prodigios, I don't know, still toying around with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I think I mean a lot of the, a lot of the course, the first two miles it's all, road is on the road and then the last two, three miles is all road slash single track. Most of it's smooth yeah like, the technical sections are fun and technical, but it you know, makes up a small, smaller portion.
Speaker 1:Yes, not too bad yeah it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys, it's pretty sweet man, it's a sick saddle up there it is like going up between mary's nipple and pk, like that whole salad salad, that whole saddle. A little dyslexia there. Yeah, the whole saddle is just like it just opens up you.
Speaker 1:You can see so much, dude, I must've spent like 20 minutes on there, like yesterday, just like taking photos and just like looking around and like oh, what's out there, you know. Cause it's so big, you know, like I don't know. I think like on the map people see like the Tetons and think like going to look out, can you see the alaska basin? Can you see this? It's like, wow, so beautiful, it's so vast.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, just look, look out anywhere and point new routes and new fun things you want to do like so many cool ridge lines, so many cool point to points yeah it's a. It's a pretty special place.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, yeah, beautiful um on the topic of racing, so you're ripping the band-aid off tomorrow. The last race you're at was what like sky race day? Math c yeah dude, what was that? Like I had a couple friends actually go race that race um and said like what an amazing experience. Like it was awesome. Yeah, what'd you think?
Speaker 2:I. I thought it was one of the coolest races I've ever ran. Yeah, like, unfortunately, my achilles blew up on me so hard that I didn't run for like seven weeks after it, jesus, so it wasn't a performance wise. It was probably one of the worst performances of my life in terms of racing. Um, and that's fine, cause it was absolutely gorgeous. Like it was so fricking pretty. Um, I would love to go back. I mean, part of the race you literally run. I wish I had skis, cause it was a bad-ass couloir but you literally like run down a snow filled couloir with like ropes and like spotters like run down a snow-filled couloir with like ropes and like spotters and like I remember I was running with Carl Ogston, a Canadian fella, so me and him were running together through that section.
Speaker 2:And we get to that section and there's two guys that were like terrified of going down it and moving super slow, and I just went right behind Carl. He like literally like starts running through him and like the spotters are like yelling at him and he like is trying to get by and like smacking these guys Like go, go, go go, Just like hitting these guys as they're like scared for their lives on these ropes and he's just like zoned in getting down this thing.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I was like hell yeah, brother, Like let's go, Just post up after him and just follow, follow his footsteps down and run through this couloir and this big ass snowfield. I'm like, oh, it's so much fun dude, it looked like I would love to go back and do that again and in fitness you should actually being fit.
Speaker 1:What about what'd you think of? Like the sky running series in general? Like are you? Would you like doing more of those races? Is this something that interests?
Speaker 2:you. That was my plan this year, dude. Like I was planning on doing the sky running series, um, but it got completely derailed by the Achilles. I mean it was just such a nagging injury Like it took. It took a year to get over that thing. Wow, like I stupidly foolishly tried to race through it last year, sears and all OCC and the rut, I forgot you went to series and all last year. Wow, so like that was, you know, sears and all was only two weeks after I jacked it up. So like, yeah it was, it was stupid. Like I was running through, you know, running through the pain and kind of just making it worse and uh, never really gave myself a time off to actually heal and go to pt and like get it right.
Speaker 2:yeah, um, until sky race, math madison's, I still don't know how to say it but until may this year and then finally took the time off and started going pt, did all the things right like, did not try to push anything and uh, yeah, dude, sometimes time's all it takes.
Speaker 1:That's true time, oh time is a good pt. It heals all things.
Speaker 2:Brother, just stick some needles in it and zap it dude.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's sick workout yeah, dude, pts are miracle workers. Man like, I don't even go to the doctor anymore, I just go to my pt and like okay, like I don't even have to get imaging, I'm like, hey, this is the problem, this is what I think it is. Can you fix this? And usually shout out to sean remmer. He usually just knows what it is and fixes it hell yeah, gotta have a good pt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, dude necessity necessity.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, dude, it's crazy. The reason I ask is like johnny's been tearing it up like this year yeah, luna lima had a great season yeah, he's another one on the north face team that like yeah he's a good find.
Speaker 2:That's yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:She's picking up solid athletes, bro. Um, all right, man, we're winding down now. We're almost at an hour, so let's get into uh, let's get into some wild questions, okay, fun. The first one's pretty serious, though. Uh, it's who who?
Speaker 2:inspires you? And why, dude? There's a list, man all right.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'd say I'll name some names then I'll go a little deeper. But definitely chris cloyd. Nobody's gonna know who that is, but I know who he is and he's a huge inspiration to me. One of my best friends. Uh, he's kind of the driver of a lot of this madness, like he's kind of been like that guy that I'll follow into the mountains and he, you know, he's taught me so many different things and, yeah, he's one of my biggest inspirations. Literally, dude, last week did in one week he had 90, 90 miles and 54 000 feet of elevation gain and loss, dear god, all, all, ridgeline, running, scrambling, class three, class four, class five, madness dude dude, how does the world?
Speaker 2:not know about this guy. He's not on socials. Uh, yeah, he doesn't do a socials. I love those types of people he's a fucking animal dude. I love him to death. Dude he's. Yeah, he's one of my biggest inspirations, hands down interesting in the in the more known running world. Um, I remember in college watching anton kropichka's movie, watching his new balance, minimus, uh, trail running. You know youtube videos and stuff and yeah, anton style has always been a huge, uh huge influence as well, wow, um do you ever?
Speaker 1:have you ever met him?
Speaker 2:no, dude, really no, I've never met him yet yeah, I'd love to go run up longs with him one day yeah, sick.
Speaker 1:I want to get him on the podcast. He's. He's a one of my like him and a few others are like people I'd love to get on oh yeah, yeah, let's see those guys.
Speaker 2:Um, most of my biggest inspirations are like friends, dude, like peter fane. Peter's huge inspiration not only in running but life. You know, like the running side of it he's he's always had that like race to win you're here because you want to be like. You know gritty approach and I've kind of grown from that. Peter's mental game is fantastic. His approach to life too. Like he works in the service industry. I've been in the service industry since I was 16 years old. You know, busing tables, tables waiting. Uh, you know, bringing people chips and water. At the first mexican restaurant I worked at. Like you know that's evolved into bartending and bartending for 11 years now. Uh, 12, going on 12, 12 years. So yeah, peter's amazing bartender, uh, amazing, just human in general.
Speaker 2:So yeah, peter, chris anton I'd say those are the top three for sure those are solid picks, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always love those types of people that like I don't know. We all meet people along the way that like heavily influence us and like kind of shape the people that we become. And it's always interesting to hear usually people like pick some whack-ass shit like out of the blue, like oh, my mom or my dad, and I'm like no, no, I want to hear like who inspires you and like what makes you who you are. So it's interesting. Um, dude, one of the things that really blew me away about this conversation I know we've talked a lot on social media before and chatted, but like one of the things that really blew me away is your.
Speaker 1:It seems like your relationship with competition. Like when we were talking about like speed goat and broken arrow, like it seemed like with you there's no doubt in your mind when you stop into a start, when you step onto a start line, like you want to win this race. Like do you? Can you tell me a little bit about your mental game and like how you work on that? Or is that like just ingrained in you or like I don't know it just like seems to me like talking to you like there's no doubts, like you are confident and you're ready to fucking go. How does that work?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't know if it's at this point, it's just because it's been that way for so long. I mean, I guess it hasn't. Dude. Like I haven't always been very confident. Like I just struggled deeply with a lot of confidence issues most of my life, like and I wouldn't say until you know, probably 2018, 2019, like finally started gaining confidence not only in running, but just life in general. Like there's definitely a lot of influences in that along the way, but I guess how that you know, carrying that over into running and racing I think it mostly stems from, like confidence in what I've been doing, how I feel my training like okay, like I know I, you know, I did this workout, this checkpoint, like hit this number and felt really good and I know that, like, my goal is I want to be, I want to be the toughest motherfucker out there, dude, like that's that's where the confidence has to come from. Well, it's like I'm going to make sure that, like, when it hurts, like I'm gonna keep, keep fucking going, dude.
Speaker 2:Like because I can hand, I'm going to handle this better than these guys, and that's not always the case, right, right like it's not always the case, dude, but like, at least having them that mentality and carrying that mentality with you from start to finish, you're gonna get the best out of yourself. I think, oh, I totally agree, man. It's like, yeah, just gotta be gritty, gotta be tough, like doesn't matter if it hurts, dude gotta be willing to die for it.
Speaker 1:Dude, you got miles, like keep going wow, and it's interesting like you're able to I don't know, like, yes, in races, like some people, you'll fade at some point. But like are you able to kind of like tap into that mental game and be able to just like continue to push yourself with that like are you able to like override a few of those things, that like, with your mind and your body tying you, hey, you should probably slow down, but or you're, you're gassed at this point. Like are you able to just like tell your brain like now, fuck it, let's keep going oh, 100.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not gonna stop until my body forces me okay, you know like. Until you get to that point where your legs literally are cramping up so bad that you can't move, even when they are, you're gonna keep running like. You're gonna keep going.
Speaker 1:You haven't crossed the finish line yet dude, I forget what race it was you posted this video, or like, put this on your story of like the muscle fiber I've only had this happen to me one time, but like the muscle fibers in your leg. I don't know if you remember this like freak it out.
Speaker 2:I was like what the fuck, bro? I don't know if that was post rut or post occ last year. It's one of the two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah I just I don't know why that like stuck in my brain. I was like I because I've only ever having that, had that happen to me one time and it was where you force yourself as hard as you possibly can to, to, to achieve something. It's, it's fun.
Speaker 2:It's, it can be a double-edged sword. I mean, going back to my buddy, chris Cloyd uh, one of the things he's instilled in me and one of the things that I try to tell some of my athletes and other people and friends is, like your training, your entire training block leading up to your key race, like, you have a box of matches, right, every time you go hard, every workout, every you know, even if it's an easy run and you push it a little hard on the hill, you're striking one of those matches and that match is burning, right, you only have so many matches every single season.
Speaker 2:It's true you got to make sure that you use those matches when they're necessary. You know, so I try to take. I've, the older I get, the more I take that approach in training and, like you know, younger me, 2019, 2018, 2020 me is, you know so into strava crowns and you know, getting those things that every single run would be based off of. Cool, I'm gonna go snipe this crown, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do whatever. And like, that's not necessarily how you, that's that's not how you train to win. No, like, yeah, you can burn bright, but you know you might burn out. Yeah, that's true, trying to save those matches for the times that they are needed is pretty damn important. Yeah, so tomorrow we get to light off some matches let's do it, dude.
Speaker 1:I'm excited. I don't know how, I don't know what. I think I might have burned a lot of matches this year, but I'm gonna. This might be my last match for the, for at least September. We're going to find out. All right, dude, let's, let's get this wild questions. I don't know. After the LSD conversation I'm like, oh man, I can't wait to get your brain this is this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1:What's, uh, what's your take on the aliens, bro? Aliens, yeah, oh, dude, there's aliens, yeah for sure. Well, like, what do you think? Like, do you think it's like they're from out of space, interdimensional, like? We keep seeing a lot of crazy shit out there, dude, they're just like popping into the sky yeah what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:dude, there's a couple different ways you could go with this. I, I think there's definitely aliens. Um, it would be naive of us to believe that there isn't. I mean, if the universe is as vast as we think and say it is like it would be kind of ridiculous for us to think that we're the only creatures that have been able to survive and thrive and, you know, grow into civilization. Yeah, that's stupid. No, of course not, dude. Can anybody answer where the pyramids came from?
Speaker 1:Right. Can anybody answer that? Pyramids?
Speaker 2:came from right. Can anybody answer that? No, because it doesn't make any sense. Dude, doesn't make sense. Uh, aliens 100.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I love it and like the pyramids are so perfect, and like also dude simulation. You never know could this be a simulation? What is your take on that? Do you think we're in a simulation?
Speaker 2:dude, you know sometimes. So there's a, there's a difference between. It's like, okay, is it? The universe has cosmic energy and the universe gives and takes and you know things need to ebb and flow in a certain way that you know, we get this feeling that it could be a simulation. Or is that just the universe, right? I don't know. It's like, uh, these are some deep thoughts, dude, it's fun.
Speaker 1:Um, I, I don't think I believe more in universal cosmic energy than simulation yeah, have you ever played the dark side of the moon with the wizard of oz and seen how that syncs up?
Speaker 1:um, no, I haven't dude next time, when you get some free time later, yeah, just google that. Okay. And after listening to that and I'm like that's either because, like the guys from ping floyd were like, yeah, we didn't, we were not inspired by that at all, like we didn't even like I don't know. So that's either some cosmic shit or the fact that like same, with like mandela effects and all that crazy shit I don't know I tend to think we're, we're in a simulation a little bit.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't know man, I'm like 50 50 on it. It's. It's a tough because, like once you, I feel like once you surrender yourself to that thought that we're in a simulation, then it's like is everything predetermined?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you know it's kind of I don't want to think that, no, like I don't want to believe that it's a simulation, just because that means it's controlled and predetermined right, whereas, like believing, you know the universe just has this magical, beautiful cosmic energy and that you know it ebbs and flows and things happen for a reason I'd rather believe in that. I love that's a way more optimistic outlook and I think it's. I think it's more spiritual and believable, yeah, yeah simulation man?
Speaker 1:yeah, I've been meaning to ask that one on the pod and I don't know I had like one.
Speaker 1:I asked like one girl about like the moon or something like that, and she's like are you a conspiracy theorist? Are you going to talk to me about flat earth? I was like whoa, whoa went a little too far there, um. So no, it's interesting, dude, what's your take on? Uh, because I know we talked about grizzly bears a lot. Um, there's like a book on this and it's like a very weird thing in the san juans, like they still think there are some. I know you're not a coloradan, um, but like grizzly bears in colorado, that's like could be a thing at some point could be a thing.
Speaker 2:I think. I think they're coming. I think they just reintroduced them in washington. Yeah, they are they made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they went that way yeah, it's kind of weird I don't know. I figured like it seems weird to. I don't know whatever I don't know, yeah I'm not a scientist, but yeah, I uh, I don't know. I think colorado, with our population now, I think it's gotten too out of control that I don't think we could have grizzlies running around, people get fucked up, yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:And it's like then what? Yeah, like you reintroduce grizzlies. Now what, what?
Speaker 1:Right, that's the apex priority.
Speaker 2:What's? What's the point? What are we doing? What's going to happen?
Speaker 1:Right, I don't know. It was like it caused a huge uh stir this year Cause we I think it was last year when we finally put wolves back into the ecosystem we had like the denver area, like because that's where mass population is I kind of like voted for that for sure one of them back um. So it's just been interesting to kind of see that clash in our state. Um yeah, do you ever, do you ever see wolves? Like, do we even have wolves out here? Like what's the deal there?
Speaker 2:uh, there are, haven't really seen any, though. No, no, interesting, yeah, interesting, yeah, just my Huskies dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. You got a little wolf pack with you, bro. I got a little wolf pack. That's cool. Well, dude, thanks for coming on. The pod man.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy we finally got to do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully this is not the. Are you going to the rut this year?
Speaker 2:Yes, signed up for the vk. You should go, dude. It's such a fun environment. Everybody says, puts on a badass race, it's. It's like. I think when it comes to grassroots races, he, yeah, like. Yeah, sure, there's big sponsors there, but the feel of it all with you know, the rut, run, run with awards, with just the tattoos at the end of the freaking oh, you got one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude gonna get two more this year, hopefully, hell yeah, um, it's just such a fun environment, dude like I. I like the rut, as that is my favorite mountain race in the entire united states.
Speaker 1:Hands down hell yeah, dude. Like you took the dub at the 50k, I feel like that's the hardest 50k in america, probably besides I?
Speaker 2:I would agree. Um, I think it's unfortunate, with the timing that big sky makes them have it that weekend, that it's at such a time where people are, you know, shredded from occ. There's a lot going on with racing. I wish it could be in a time slot throughout the year where it could be more competitive, yeah, and get more people up and out there to you know, experience it. That's true, yeah, where do you fly?
Speaker 1:in for that? Do you fly, I guess bozeman bozeman? Yeah, I haven't booked my ticket yet, let's go just show you up. Still, I got my place, but I kind of I don't know. My whole thought was like let's get through the cirque series and then make a decision it'd be dope to finally get my first tattoo, though I think it'd be kind of fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, buddy yeah, it's really addicting.
Speaker 1:Watch out, yeah, it's true, well, dude, thanks so much for coming on. Uh, appreciate it, man. Dude, thanks for having me, it's super fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man hell, yeah, what a crazy episode. Um, just wow, left uh just like a bonkers absolutely bonkers in some of these storytelling and just some of the stories that we went through in there. I really want to thank michelino so much for coming on the podcast. Guys, if you want to hop on to Instagram and toggle on over to Michelino that's M-I-C-H-E-L-I-N-O, it's kind of my fellow Italian and give him a follow on Instagram. If you guys enjoyed the episode and if you were inspired in any way, shoot him a message, shoot him a DM, let him know what you guys thought of the episode and let him know, um, how he inspired you. I think that, uh, this episode was one of just like massive inspiration. Um that you could literally just be hanging out, uh, in the forest doing LSD one day and the next day you could be one of the best ultra runners or mountain runners in the world. Not the next day, it takes some time but next few years. Who would have thought, just like, what an amazing story, yeah, so give him a DM on Instagram, give him a follow. Last but not least, if you guys really enjoyed this episode, hop on over. Please, please, please. Give us a rating and review. Five stars would be amazing on Apple and Spotify, just so we can get this out to the world. And that's the plan. So, guys, big news.
Speaker 1:Next week is Pikes Peak Marathon Week Probably the biggest week of my podcasting career so far. We are going to be taking over the Pikes Peak Marathon in ascent and we're going to be starting off on Monday with an interview with John Aziz. We're going to kick off Pikes Peak Week the right way, talking to the two-time Pikes Peak and hopefully three-time Pikes Peak Marathon champion. We have a whole amazing week lined up for you and it's going to culminate on Friday. If you guys are local to the Front Range or happen to be in the Springs or know a runner running, if you're around, pop on over to Memorial Park. That's going to be.
Speaker 1:Memorial Park is in Manitou Springs. Put that into your Google Maps, you can figure out where it's. At 4 pm we're going to be doing an elite athlete press conference. A lot of big names are going to be there. Some of your favorite athletes in the mountain running, slash, trail running community will be there, and then the following morning we are going to be taking over the start line Right after the gun goes off. I am going to be there to provide some live commentary on the race from 7am till 930, following the men's and women's race and just giving some live commentary and talking some stuff A lot of banter, it's going to be fun. So, if you guys can join us, that's going to be right near the start line in Memorial Park on Saturday morning at 7am and that date is going to be the 21st of September. So, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Have a great rest of your week and keep an eye out for all the fun starting next week for Pike's Peak Week. Thank you,
