The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#74 - Kyle Richardson
Running isn't just a sport; it's a canvas for creativity and individuality. Join us for an invigorating conversation with Kyle Richardson, an athlete renowned for his FKTs yet equally passionate about the art of running. In this episode, Kyle dives deep into his unique journey from Texas to Boulder, where his early love for running, music, and the outdoors shaped his multifaceted identity as an athlete.
We delve into Kyle's thoughts on the evolving landscape of athlete sponsorships, the pressures they create, and what it means to remain authentic in a world driven by competition and brand expectations. Kyle’s candid reflections on injuries illuminate the delicate balance between ambition and self-care, providing listeners with valuable insights on resilience.
Tune in as we explore the concept of “rhythm and motion” in running, where Kyle reveals how honing a unique perspective can transform a run into a deeply personal experience. With aspirations of undertaking solo adventures and rekindling a love for the freedom of the outdoors, Kyle invites you to rethink your own relationship with running.
If you’re ready to challenge societal norms and embrace your individuality, then this episode is for you! Join us in discovering how art, passion, and authenticity can inform our journeys, both in running and beyond. Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us!
This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction. Use cod steepstuffpod for 25% off your next order on Ultimatedirection.com !
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to this deep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I am so excited to bring you guys an episode with Kyle Richardson. Kyle is somebody who I've deeply admired for a very long time and one of the people I looked up to and have looked up to since I got into the sport. Kyle is also someone who I had planned to have a conversation with since I first started the podcast. It was someone I had in mind.
Speaker 1:Kyle is a deeply authentic human and someone incredibly different in the sense that he kind of made his pathway in the sport and became a professional athlete in a very non-traditional way, not super big into the racing scene. He kind of just focused on his craft on various up down and different link up FKTs that he kind of broke his name into was, starting with Long's Peak, as well as the LA Freeway, amongst many others. You know this episode kind of picks off where kind of him and Finn left off a few years ago. We picked up on what Kyle's been up to over the last year or two. You know he's kind of on a new pathway now, which was something we dove deeply into and talked about. We also talked about some plans for the future, which I'm super excited for with Kyle. He's definitely got some big plans and it's exciting to see him morph and grow into his next pathway of his journey. So, guys, I hope you enjoy this one. I have to say it's one of I know I say this every time, but this is one of my favorite episodes, if not my favorite. Kyle is a special human and, uh, you know, from these episodes I always take a little something away from each person, and Kyle's is about individually, uh, individuality and authenticity uh, two things he, he definitely is. So hope you enjoy this one without further ado. None other than Kyle Richardson. It's time. We'll see you next time. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live, people, earth. Listen up. The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA.
Speaker 1:I am so excited to be partnering with Ultimate Direction in 2025 as the official hydration solutions partner for the Steep Stuff Podcast. Lots of fun things coming down the pike for this year. Ultimate direction is going to be unveiling a brand new race and ultra vest that's going to be dropping in the next couple of months. So excited to bring that to you guys. If you are in the market right now for apparel, for a belt, for a new pack anything, hydration solutions related flasks, um, you name it. They've got it. They've got you covered.
Speaker 1:If you hop onto ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff, pod, that's one word. Steep S? T E E P stuff, s? T U F F pod. Um, if you hop onto ultimate directioncom and use that code, that's going to get you 25% off your car, especially that we're starting to wind our way a little bit more closer to spring. You guys are going to be start start to put together your race calendars and, uh, yeah, ultimate direction is going to have you guys covered. So, whatever you need, they've got you outfitted from head almost a toe. They don't do shoes yet. So, guys, enjoy yourself. Have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much and, uh, check out ultimate direction, kyle. Kyle Richardson. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you man?
Speaker 2:Yo James, Thanks for having me. I'm good. It snowed a couple inches last night. We already had a good little base going. So yeah, I've just been enjoying winter and it's kind of a proper little winter day. So yeah, things are great. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good man, I'm doing good. It's a busy week, so happy to kind of turn things down now and start to put the focus. But I do a lot of, you know, my running during the week treadmill and on the roads and then I start to like tamper back onto the trails over the weekends. Uh, when I start to like I don't know, do stuff on the incline and stuff like that, so excited to get back on the trails. Just had a nice run a little bit ago. Just perfect amount of powder for a fast, you know, for like a little bit of speed, not too much powder. It was like perfect.
Speaker 1:So hey man, it's a good day. It's a good day, excited to be, excited to be chatting. Um, dude, like I said before we started talking, you are have been one of the most requested people to come on the podcast. Um, when I first came into the sport even though I'm, like, probably a good five years older than you like you were somebody I continue to look up to and have looked up to when I first entered the sport. So it's cool to be chatting, man. It's a little surreal, it's a little weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, thanks man. No, I really really appreciate it. I was just thinking when you were talking about the incline, I was in winter, when that gets kind of packed down.
Speaker 1:I bet it's so nice. I would love to go run there in winter. Dude, you love it and especially like with all your fast times up green like you would it's a good opportunity to rip, like I do. Saturdays, I do a lot of uh like more specific trail workouts. I'll do a lot of up downs like to the like the first and second bailout, uh, and I love it. Man, yeah, it's great. I mean it gets a little icy but like with good traction it's like it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:But yeah, 10 out of 10 recommend yeah, you ever uh like rip downhill on it, like go down all the the whole incline, you know what dude, not the entire thing.
Speaker 1:I I've like figured out the first, like it's like off the second ballot and the first, but, like I don't know, it's like that full steep section like. I get like kind of weird on it. It's like almost too vertical, um. So you start to like, I don't know, second guess yourself in the footing a little bit, but I one of these days I'd like to like rip a full up down. I. It's funny, a while ago I used to be like more of a, more of like just loving the uphill more, but I don't know, as I've started practicing the downhill stuff more, it's I'm starting to enjoy that and finding, finding some love that. So I don't know, have you, what have you been up to? Man? I know, like I said, before we got into the podcast, I was listening to some 21, 22 stuff with you and Finn and yeah, I'm just curious to see what you've been up to over the last few months and I saw you in the East Coast doing stuff and what's new these days?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm trying to think back to maybe what? Yeah, those years when I was talking to finn. I mean I feel like the in-between years since then and catching up to now is like I've dealt with some injuries over those years. So they've kind of been like a little like, oh, am I gonna be able to go do something. It kind of depends on like oh, where's my to be? Just like I'd get injured at like summer. You know like it's hard to exactly pinpoint because it's like I'm thinking more about like where I am now.
Speaker 2:But in the last few months, you know, I've just been trying to be super consistent on the running front. I would say it's probably been the most consistent sort of mileage and just running that I've ever done, which has been pretty awesome. I feel like really good like my legs going out for just a standard hour, hour and a half run Like, oh, you know, you kind of just reach that point sometimes when the legs are underneath you, you feel solid, like you can count on running, and I think the key with that is like not getting greedy with it and not overdoing it. So in the past, like these injuries I was just talking about, you're like, oh, you go do stuff just because you can and because you love to do it, and sometimes that gets you into trouble. You just you do too much or you're like you just stack some big adventures back to back and then you don't recover and you go run. Oh, you have a little hip thing. So I sort of injured my right hip a few years back and that kind of just has taken a little bit to kind of unwind and then had, like I tore a little bit of my quad last year and that kind of like took out a chunk of my season, um. And but when I say, take like, take a chunk out, I'm still able to bike and kind of do other things and get outside. So that's like super nice.
Speaker 2:I'm grateful that, even like when you're dealing with some injuries, you can find ways to like keep that fire alive or just like get to get to enjoy nature, um. But yeah, recently it's like I've kind of fixed all of that Like really like just focused on running, like form, efficiency, efficiency, all that stuff Not too much, but in a way that's going to be like productive for you to like not keep getting injured and, yeah, just grow and kind of evolve. So it's like a really good feeling that running has been like consistent and I'm able to like count on it, because in years past it's like, oh, I'm not, I'm not the bike, or kind of have to like switch it up all the time and that never allows you to like really kind of sharpen your craft. Like you kind of just like you do too much and you're like oh shit, like I kind of I need to be smarter, you know I need to, yeah, so I feel you on that dude.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, it's that delicate dance. Like some weeks, like you said it's it's not getting too greedy, cause like they'll be the weeks where you feel sore shit and you're like I don't want to get out the door but I know I have to. And then there are days and like sometimes weeks, where you just feel amazing and you're like do I, how far do I push this and what do I do with that?
Speaker 2:You know, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting dance if you will.
Speaker 2:And I don't know, I don't have a coach and like I basically just go off, feel and sometimes like the passion and the joy for like getting outside or spending a long day. Like you got to like tamper that down or at least like plan your year out where you're not doing that in the winter so that when summer comes along you can like have a little bit of a progression. Otherwise it's like yeah, I think I said you get too greedy with it. It's yeah, it's kind of like a you love it so much, but it's like yeah, I think I said you get too greedy with it. It's yeah, it's kind of like a you love it so much, but it's not something you can abuse. It's yeah, it's kind of funny when you think about it like that is it easy for you to be motivated in winter?
Speaker 2:my motivation is like that's not ever been a problem for me and it's like every day I'm so psyched to get outside and basically any capacity whatever my body will allow, and I think, um, it's like not, yeah, I just love it, love to do it so much that it's not really a motivation thing.
Speaker 2:It's like other. I have to tap into different areas of my life. I need to make sure that I'm doing all the other things right so that I like give myself the opportunity to get out the door. You know, like otherwise, it's like, oh, like, should this be the priority right now? You have all this other stuff going on like you need to, yeah, make sure you're doing all the other life stuff. That way it's like you can get out for the run and it's like you're not going out there to like de-stress. You've already taken care of business. You're out there because it's like I really really want to experience what this day holds on the mountain, maybe the certain weather, like when it's really gnarly. I love to be out there, like I, I love that so much.
Speaker 2:You, you brought up the east coast at the beginning and um yeah, yeah there's this summit there and it's like it gets way gnarlier there um mount monadnock than anywhere that I've really experienced here in colorado. That's like a peak, that's you can go do it as a run, like it's not an all day epic. I mean it's technical but it's not like going up a 14 or it's like just a slightly smaller mountain but still gives you that punch that a big mountain would have. So one of the summits I did it was like I don't know like negative 30 or 40 wind till, and it's like to have the opportunity to go see what that's like and like have the skill set to know that you're going to be okay. You know you can kind of lean into the conditions and that like once you kind of enter that realm, I feel like the experience is a little more raw. It's like a little bit, maybe more to learn from the experience because you've kind of opened yourself up to it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It does, it does. I don't know if you're similar, but do you ever get captivated by location? So the reason I asked about the East Coast was because, I don't know, I get fascinated by different locations. I grew up on the East Coast. I have family there. My wife's family lives in upstate New York, so we spend a good amount of time between there. We'll do a lot of Vermont New Hampshire this summer and I don't know why, man, but like that location is, I don't know captivating. It's interesting. The mountains are very different, the payoff is different when you get to the top, but there's just something about them that I find like very, very fun and very interesting, very technical. Yeah, it's a cool, cool set of peaks, whether you're in the whites or the greens.
Speaker 2:No, I mean yeah, you said it perfectly something about um, a place that has such a different field than what you're used to, so, like in Colorado. It's like front range running. It has a very distinct flavor. I mean, even where you are, it's like the, the gravel, the granite. It's like, oh, you know that you're in the springs area if you're like doing this type of running, and it's something about the east coast and like new england maybe, and I bet yeah, and the adirondacks and the catskills and stuff. It's like it's such a distinct flavor that you really like are like oh, wow, this is like, this is a lot different and there's a charm to it. It's like the architecture, the, the small town, like general stores it has. It's just not the West, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's like duh, it's, it's older, it's, I don't know. It's probably obvious, but I don't know. When you're running, it definitely is like strikes you pretty hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny too, like I the the technicality is astonishing Like and technicality is astonishing like, and I guess, like, maybe I'm spoiled, like we're spoiled, because like colorado I mean, yeah, green is like there's like a lot of sections of green that's pretty technical, like there's not a ton. I'd say there's more technicality in boulder than you get in the springs. Like springs is carpet more or less.
Speaker 1:like there's some technical peaks, but like yeah, dude it's on another level in in the east coast, like it is. So, um, just you have to just like be engaged. I'd say engaging is probably the best word for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm trying to think of like if I've done any carpet path running, I mean you have the dirt roads for that. That's basically what the area is and I'm like the trails that I've been on that are my favorites. It's like it's hard for me to describe to people, even in boulder, like how technical, just in the way that the terrain is like so undulating, like it's it's rare to have like a I mean you have like walls and like steep climbs, but it's gonna have some other like punches it throws at you. It's like really like types of terrain and features that are unexpected, like weird rock outcroppings, like you're doing like legit little scrambles up, little boulder problems and like this is where the like they even mark it, so like with blazes or whatever. You're like huh, this is like the best way and the best way is like a cool little rock feature like, or like all the terrain is eroded and it's revealed this like thick slab. So it's like the terrain is.
Speaker 2:It's hard to read and it's it's really unique. I mean I I haven't really put my finger on it totally I'm still psyched to go out there and explore and yeah, it's, it's crazy. I think you, yeah, said it perfectly, it's just, it's so. It grabs your attention. You cannot just chill, yeah, yeah I don't know it's.
Speaker 1:it's interesting. Man, I don't know. I'm the type of person as it sounds like you are, too like you look for the adventure and everything you can find, and it's like that is one of the places where I just think it's slept on. It's interesting, so, yeah, I can't wait to be back, hopefully this summer.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, I want to backtrack a little bit. Obviously, you're probably one of the most famous people I've ever had on the podcast. So many, many people know who you are. Yeah, I don't know about that, but let's backtrack a little bit. Let's talk about your story man. Let's talk about growing up in Texas how you found running things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean where to start. I guess the how, like how I found running. I think that's a good place to start and in austin, texas, just outside the downtown area, like near lake travis, I feel like that's kind of a familiar landmark. Um, so, like my dad is a big runner, still runs, I, you know he's probably the obvious person, the obvious person to point to as like oh, this is how it started, because that's where I first actually saw running, like oh, I saw this person going out for a run, tying his shoes, so that gets into your mind. And then my brother was doing cross country, like through middle school.
Speaker 2:So I was like sawing the scene of like the racing and competitive side of running and I kind of dabbled in track and field in middle school, but it was like nothing I really ever trained. I can't remember like training, for it was just like oh, and, and when you're in middle school, you just kind of like get fit and then you just do the sports. You know, like I did soccer, I was just doing other stuff, I was also in band, so I was like that was consuming a lot of time and I feel like you just tried to do as much as you could and like that kind of like gave you some fitness or you know, you just kind of stayed active. There was never a time to chill um. So that was definitely like seeing running okay, running's a thing I'm getting, like I'm wearing Nikes, doing the Nike plus thing, like before Strava, where you're like uploading your runs um, so you could like see your route. There was like trails behind my house where I grew up and kind of just like naturally gravitated towards that, cause running pavement it's uh, it just feels hotter in this, like when you're in Austin, it's like you want some tree coverage. Even the trails are super technical. It just kind of like the roads were unpleasant, you know loud, hot, like the footing is just pounding, I don't know. Something pretty early on like deterred me from wanting to do that and like just the the fun of exploring trails and like just getting out there like, oh, I can go do this from home. It's probably some aspects of like freedom at that age. You can just go go do something you know um.
Speaker 2:But then in high school I like pursued music full-time. I was in band, a marching band and jazz band, all this stuff and it's like I didn't have time to really, um, do anything else other than that. It was like crazy to think about getting up early for rehearsals, staying late. It was like totally unreasonable workload, like I I don't honestly know how I got through it and I have always held myself to a really high standard and I like wanted to be the best that I could be. Practice like, oh, I have to practice more than you, I have to spend more.
Speaker 2:You know, just like with your peers, it becomes like a competition. You want to like, not like outdo them, but you're just like if you try your best, then everyone's gonna try their best. It's like running with someone that's faster than you, or like a group that's like, oh, they got it and I need to bring my a game. It's like everyone kind of goes up together um, which is like the cool thing of when you like are friends with everyone and you're like homies. You know like it's like you can create a really good atmosphere and like get really good at something. So, like when I was on the drum line, we like, oh, like, we're gonna try to win and win the competitions, but that was like all consuming. There was no time to run, um, although I guess for summer conditioning, the band directors would have us run like two miles around the concrete like marching field, which is heinous. It's cool like, yeah, like, because they were into running too and then they still are and they do marathons and stuff. So they're like, oh, if they run like it's just going to be a good way to get them fit, because, like when you're carrying a drum around for 13 minutes on the field, like you need to be able to have some endurance. So I probably gained like a decent base fitness just from that, before I even started like training. You know, summers, like carrying the drum all day, sessions where you're just like I mean, yeah, it was intense, like athletic endeavor, at least for that part of the year for sure. But then in the spring, when, you know, not during football season it's like the yeah, the practices, the competitions, the recitals, the solo. You know it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So but then college, moving to boulder for school at cu, and I was like, on music, uh, scholarship, pursuing a music degree, I was like saw the mountains and had like free time to actually go explore and practice and do music at the same time. So I was like, oh, this is the best of both worlds, um, and just yeah, completely fell in love with like the repetition of running, like doing something every day, like not necessarily chasing any goals at that point early on, or fitness, because I was like couldn't even like run up green, I'd like be hiking. You know, a complete noob in the sport. You know like everyone has a place where they started. You know, I was like that, seeing the people run around here, I was like like I don't even associate with those people because we're not even I'm like out for a hike and you guys are, you know, like athletes or like you know who knows what you want to call it. But so that was kind of like an interesting start for me.
Speaker 2:It was just falling in love with boulder and the mountains and then kind of at the same time like picking up more into the sport in terms of like the characters, like brands, races, like kind of all like happened at a interesting moment, whereas like running right before that moment was purely like a, just a thing that I knew about growing up. Seeing my dad run. It was like sort of the innocence of running all the way up until moving to Boulder. I was like, oh damn, like this is a whole nother sport. It's a whole nother thing. This is like as much time that you've put into like perfecting percussion and studying percussion, like people do that with like running in the mountains. It's like, oh, like I wondered. I saw that progression with music is like you can learn something and get really good at it. It's like what if I just like did the same thing with running, what you know? Just have a daily routine of practice, you know, and then it may take a decade, but you'll get really good at something.
Speaker 1:Dude, you got good really fast though, like really really fast. It felt like that period of time from like 2018 through 2022. I mean, you can obviously paint the color for this because it's your experience, but like I feel like that time from 2018 to 2022, you set the FKT on Longs, set the FKkt on the la freeway, green mountain, the descent and the round trip.
Speaker 1:Like you did so much in the sport, like you blew up, like what was that experience, like because I felt like, like you're on every at that point, you're on every podcast, you know all these brands are knocking down your door. You know your friends with all these. You start to become friends with all these, like huge people in the sport. Like, like, how did your life change in that? Like, what was that one pivotal moment? Like where your life changed?
Speaker 2:It's a, it's a good question. That's when I take a sec to unpack. But, um, I feel like I still haven't really had that moment where, like, oh, my life has changed. It's funny. I'm like thinking about that, um, I um, I mean obviously it has, and like my career has been altered because of things that I've done. Um, but now I like think back on that and maybe we should talk about this at the end. It's like where am I now? Um, because I feel like I have some interesting reflection.
Speaker 2:But it was kind of like I'm relating this back to music. Um, so you're, you're practicing. You're practicing. You're like, are out of like grade school. Now you're in college and it's like it's, it's more, it's totally on you. It's like no one's helping you, no one's holding your hand, whereas before everyone's like, oh, you, you miss a couple of notes, or you drop your stick, or you, I don't know like you get in trouble or something, something someone's going to be there to kind of like, okay, this is how the processes were going to help you along, and like, oh, it's okay that you messed up in college, like the pressure to perform at such a high level. You just like it was, you felt it and I was super, super grateful to have the professor that I had, dr walter Walter, doug Walter, because he made it 100% about the music. Like you needed to have technique and all that stuff we was discussed.
Speaker 2:But it's like you need to put yourself into the music, like you need to add emotion. It's an art. You need to inject your creativity into it. So it was like that was at such a forefront that before every performance that was like you can go out and just regurgitate a piece of music that you've learned but it's like doesn't have any feeling to it to to really like add feeling and dynamics and all this stuff. It's like another level and I was like thinking about that with running um and what it takes to get to that point of like you've, you've kind of practiced so much that you can now sort of improvise or add more colors, like you can, oh, go, scramble up this rock or this Ridge. It's like more of a you're painting a picture. It's like it's a little bit more nuanced, a little more creative in the way that you think about it. Obviously, when you look at it on paper it's like, oh, he went up Green Mountain or he went up this did that. It's like at least my thought process behind it. It's like much more coming from like an art place and I feel like I just focused on that and over time, yeah, I was like, oh, I'm going to try to run fast now and just see like kind of where that gets you.
Speaker 2:It's I don't know the whole like blowing up thing. It's funny because I'm 29 and I feel like I haven't even like scraped the surface and I feel like I had at least a lot of things I want to do, like setting myself to a really high standard. It's like it may not even be possible Like I probably will fail doing some of this stuff, but it's like adding some longevity. It's like it may not even be possible, like I probably will fail doing some of this stuff, but it's like adding some longevity. It's like this might not happen in two or three years, and I think that was a big growing moment for me was after, like the LA freeware, these other things that I said are long. So it's like it took a decade to get to this point. Like it could take another decade to get to the to, so maybe where you want to be and so be okay with where that's going to take you and don't rush. Like, since you did this, that's going to lead you to this and then you're going to do this and it's like you can't predict. I could have never predicted like, oh he's gonna.
Speaker 2:One of my proudest achievements is probably the quinfecta.
Speaker 2:Like the five flat iron link up in boulder.
Speaker 2:Um, you go up like the second and the first and the third and the fifth, then the fourth flat iron and run back down to chautauqua and it's like that was the culmination of like so many different skill sets, like physically, mentally, um, creatively, like figuring out different link, like links, adding little different routes. So, you know, just taking everything that I've learned and be like how, like proficient can you do this? And it's like, yeah, that's the one of the only times that I'd be like I, someone I would like, want to see someone come try to break that time, because it's like that was like my, my finest work, my finest composition in terms of like what I mean you can't fuck up when you're doing that kind of stuff, like it's too consequential, but it's like there is a little bit of art to you know like you can do it or you can do it at this level, you know. So I know that was like a rambly way of talking and answering your question. I'm not sure I even answered it, but that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I think it was a good answer and I appreciate you being so candid. Just, the only reason I bring it up is because, like, dude, like you were really young when you like popped onto the scene and that's why, like a lot of these guys you see in the sport, guys and gals, like you see people in the deep of you. Yeah, yeah, based on like doing whatever you want. So like, it's kind of cool, I don't know like and to do, I've done all those things so young, it just makes it, it's interesting dude.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I would um, I have to add this because I it would be like I'd be embarrassed if I didn't um, like all the people in the community like their standard, their like strive for excellence, the way that they carry themselves like definitely link, like bled into like kind of what I do, like the saints minions, um, just different people in the community that you're like, oh, like, these are really cool people doing cool stuff. I want to like go see what they have to do and hang out and get to know them, like learn from them. You know people that were like much more proficient at running or just generally being outside than me. Um, in two of my oldest friends like uh, cordis Hall and Jack Daly, like they were, I learned so much from them cause they were like I would say they were deep into the sport when I met them and so, like all the races, all the people, all the trails, all the linkups and stuff, like they, they knew it all and so they showed me pretty much everything that I you know a lot that I know now.
Speaker 2:You know I could definitely a lot of the runs we did in college, like waking up early, going up, green, flat irons, just um indian peaks all over. It's like I did some of those first runs that then led to bigger, like runs for fkts and stuff started like with them, just like going out for a run, you know yeah, yeah, I got a boulder question for you just because, like I have a lot of friends in the boulder area, there's just so many athletes.
Speaker 1:It's the boulder bubble dude. It's a it athletes. It's the Boulder bubble dude. It's rich with every competitive athlete you could possibly think of. And the other thing I find funny is not funny but interesting is you're very active on Strava. You're always putting photos up. You're putting up pretty much a lot of stuff. Do you ever feel pressure? Is that a pain in the ass to feel like everybody's?
Speaker 2:looking at my Strava all the time.
Speaker 1:Now it's I feel like it depends on how you look at it. Like, because I would hate that.
Speaker 2:That would drive me crazy it's like uh, I started Strava so long ago and I remember, like my dad showing me and, like I said, doing the Nike plus thing, like so I was just like always uploading my runs from middle school, like so it now I've never really been worried about that. I mean, I don't have anything to hide.
Speaker 2:So it's like yeah look at my, you know, if anything, I'd be like cool to see people like, oh, he did this route, I'm gonna go check it out, like keep it open so people can see what I'm doing, or like have questions, or they have questions about gear. I get that stuff all the time and it's as someone that was like when you're sponsored by brands and like what I don't know, it's good to be like you're a public, not trying to really be a public figure, but when you are, you know, like that's kind of like what you signed up for, like don't play the game if you want, like I mean, I I have friends that keep their shop a private. I have like feelings about like what my buddy jack he's like I'm like just post it like is jack kenzel yeah yeah, yeah I mean, I get it.
Speaker 1:I actually see. Well, I think I get where he comes from more than I think for with I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, I I think it's okay, like either way. Like it honestly, at the end of the day it doesn't. It's just funny to me that it, I don't know no one's going to like, dislike you or like you more, whether you have. Like I'm going to be like oh, jack is doing this cool stuff. Like I'm not really looking at the numbers, or like I'm like I want to see the photos and the writeup. What were the conditions? Like, like the I guess I'm thinking more about that versus like if you want to hide everything else, I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't matter, but I I just feel like I'm missing out on like stories or little things that I could catch on to, and like there are people that are like tony, like in um boulder here, um anton krapicka, like he does a good job with this drama, like he's always posting photos and like an interesting write-up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my friend danny gilbert does the same thing. It's like I like seeing that stuff and I don't care. Like I'm not like, oh, like he did it this fast or this fast. It's like if they really care about that stuff, you just write it in the description and I'll read it. So it's like if and I'll just take that for face value and just, oh, at the end, know I'm trying to spend less time on my phone anyway. So it's like that's where I'm coming from. But I 100% respect and think it's totally fine to keep it private and understand, like people like Killian, you know, like I understand the whole, like I get it. I guess he's posting more but I could see both ways. But I personally think it's cool to share what you're doing. That's why you're on the platform to begin with.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that, man, I mean, and like your stuff has always been so good, like your stories are always awesome, like these, especially in the winter, like these beautiful, like like winter backgrounds with the flat irons and stuff. Damn you're a good photographer man. Let me ask you this what do you shoot on? Because, like is it just an iPhone. Oh, you just have a really good eye then and you're just like really naturally good at this. That's like dude.
Speaker 2:I could try to do the same thing with my iphone and I can't get anything nearly as good. I mean that's I like doing that a lot. I think I don't own like a big camera or like a fancy camera yeah, just the iphone. But I like composition and like finding different perspectives and like being able to capture that with the phone. And like I don't carry a tripod or anything, I just like kind of prop the phone up on a like nature has so much to offer you, just like if it doesn't have something to offer, to like prop the phone up, then maybe it's not worth taking the photo. It's like I don't spend.
Speaker 2:I mean it's definitely an art and like I kind of want to write like a little piece about like how to take this Java photo as like a little joke or something where it's like here's a few little tips to like help with composition or whatever. Not like any phone, any gadget, like it doesn't matter what you have, just kind of seeing like oh, like the tree right here make a sick shot. I always liked this perspective, like I'm going to stop real quick and take a photo. So that's kind of my thought process, process behind that. Um, it's like pretty, yeah, low key with the moment. Sometimes I'm stopping like this yeah, see what capture a little beauty you know, and then be able to share it later.
Speaker 1:When it comes to sharing things, one of the things I've heard, one of the uh slogans I've heard you say a lot and on on podcasts, on Instagram is the term rhythm and motion.
Speaker 2:Can you?
Speaker 1:talk a little bit about that and what that means to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just means while you're running there's this motion going on and it's rhythmic and if you think about that, your heartbeat, your footsteps, your breath, the birds, that it your heartbeat, your footsteps, your breath, the birds, the wind and the tree limbs making noises. It's like there's a orchestra out there and you can kind of like tune into that. And I think that the focus of that and kind of thinking about that allows you to kind of tap into this space where you're not thinking about too much, you're sort of no stress, you're just kind of like light on your feet, you're kind of I don't know, just in a positive mindset and sort of space to kind of go about the run whereas like, maybe, oh, it's muddy out or it's, um, I'm not feeling good, these shoes suck, or like there's other little like things that sometimes can like bug you during a run, or like the distractions, thinking about like the, the rhythm, and just your surroundings, or like nature. I mean, it can be more broad than just like an actual rhythm, but like, yeah, what is nature doing? Think about that, think about how cool it is to be there, and that kind of like the run will be over and like a before you know it, you're like like, oh damn, like that was.
Speaker 2:Some runs just feel effortless and like quick. You're just like you got back in no time but it was still like your kind of standard time it would take. And I think, and just being a little more open with your mindset, I think, like technology, different things can bog you down, trying to get out the door and bother you on the run or something. So I don't know, it's kind of like dorky music, nerdy kind of things going on, but that's just yeah, kind of what I like.
Speaker 1:I love it, man, dude you are. I have talked to a lot of people a while over a hundred at this point on the podcast, and I have never met another person, and this is this is a compliment.
Speaker 1:I have never met another person that looks at the like, the way you view running from such an artistic approach. It's just so interesting to me just because, like I don't know like your standard person you meet is like everything's about competition, right. Your standard like sub ultra athlete, you know Everything's about competition, right. Your standard sub-alter athlete or alter runner, whatever, everybody is thinking on the competition perspective. You are a very interesting mix of incorporating art and then you have this solid FKT background and all these things that you have accomplished. I'm just so curious, where does competition fit into this? Because I know you haven't raced too much. You've raced a few times last year and the only reason I bring this up is because I had someone bring this up to me when I was doing a, a race preview last year for sky race day, math sin. Your name popped up and I was like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Kyle Richardson is on that start list. I was like, holy shit, is he going to be raised in the Sky Racing Series?
Speaker 2:Dude, I yeah, I mean it was the goal of the year but I got injured and it's so much travel and commitment that it's like I'm not going to go over there when I'm hurt. It's just silly. I know when it's not going to be and I knew a month out or something and I was like, no, this is not happening. I mean, I'm just not one of those people that will give up everything to get to the start line. I guess maybe I'm just more secure with what I'm doing and my projects and ideas that I just yeah.
Speaker 2:But at the same time there's a half dozen number of races that I would love to do and I would like, yeah, if I could get into Zagama or one of these. I would like, yeah, if I could get into, like Zagama or one of these, just some, yeah, sky races over there and like this year, like that would be so sick. So I mean it just comes and goes and like, like I'm 29. So I, I'm not, um, I don't feel the pressure that I need to go do it right now, but it's like if it, if I could right now. Like, yeah, sure, I just like I don't think this year it's going to happen for me. Um, I mean, yeah, I'm not going to say no yet, probably definitely not as a gamma. But you know, I know that next year, like I have some years to kind of like try to do that stuff, it's I don't want to rush it and I also like just it's not the focus for me right now.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, it's like, yeah, that's kind of like a lame answer, I feel like cause no, no, no I like I'm I'm running now is giving me like confidence that these are stuff that I want to do this year and like hopefully moving forward. If I just kind of like listen to what I said on this podcast at the very beginning um by injuries and that stuff and being smart and applying that all the years to come then I'll be great. But that's not how life works, so something probably will get in the way, but that's okay. Um. But yeah, I mean competition. It's like the fkts have been a pretty cool outlet for that stuff. I mean I love competing against myself. So while it's cool to see like, oh, like, I'm faster than these people on the strava leaderboard, I know what I'm capable of. I know, like on a good day, what my legs can do and so in some ways that's like all the motivation I need to like go at least try Um. In the last few years I just like haven't been healthy enough to try Um, but that's this year is like I got good feelings Um.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens, but I'd like I'd like to do some racing. I'm like warming more up to the idea. I'm sure in the podcast with finn I was like, oh, I never. But there are some like mount marathon, like, I said, zagama, the sky running circuit, like there's these races that I just want to do at least once like just to do them like, and I know that I like will do well at them. I'm not saying I'm gonna win or anything like that. I was just like, oh, I'll put down a respectable time and like be happy that I did it. You know, you know if I have a good day or whatnot, but so yeah, no, I dude, I and listen like you're world-class man, so to see to see you come on and like race, some stuff like that.
Speaker 1:That's why I bring it up is because I remember being astounded when I saw that last year. I was like huh, I, I like not only do I have to have him on the podcast, but like this is a conversation to talk about, and I had shout out to nick tusa, who's a boulder he's in the boulder scene who like oh yeah, yeah, idolizes you as well as many others.
Speaker 1:um, but like one of the things that, like he had, I asked him like what do you have a question for for k? That was one of the ones that came up, so yeah it's um, yeah, it's just interesting to me. Like Sky Race to Matson is a sick race, so that's like one of the ones that, like, I'd love to see you do.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it was like that and I was like really excited about Kima, which Jack did really well at, and I feel like that. Those kinds of courses, it's like as gnarly as you can have a race, like sign me up you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things we started in the in the beginning of the conversation was about your background, where you were. I think now is a good time to maybe talk about, like you know, you would kind of allude to this like where you're going, where you want to go things like that. Is that anything you want to talk about for that?
Speaker 2:like that. Is that anything you want to talk about? For that? Oh yeah, no, that's good. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, I feel like my at least life and work has looked a little different. Um, like, in end of November, I actually stopped working with BD, so I'm like not sponsored, I'm not working with any um any brands at the moment. So it's kind of interesting Um any brands at the moment. So it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, I feel like I have a lot of thoughts on this and, uh, I was actually like writing a little piece about this, trying to like just get some thoughts out and like looking back at my time with, like, bd and sportiva and these different brands I was working with, for I did bd for seven years, which is felt like a long time. Um, yeah, like what, what all that was like? Like what have you learned? What? Where are you now? Kind of just I don't know going back and just seeing what that whole timeline was, like the process of graduating college and like pretty much, yeah, going pro, like having, yeah, getting paid to, yeah, run, which is kind of wild, and I feel like that is interesting to think back on. And then also think back at um, like the music work that I was doing and still doing now, um, like at the same time. But seeing, like, oh, like, how much was I devoting to to like being a professional athlete, versus like all the things that I'm pursuing now like, or music, percussion, performing, you know, if you have so much time in the day, like is it all and and working or whatever trying to make money? If we just want to put it simply, is like, are you spending all of it like doing bd stuff and yeah, it's. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm kind of rambling about it because I still haven't really processed, at least exactly how I feel about the situation, but it's, it is refreshing and like exciting to like not be working with um any brands. You know. Like it's I can, like I'm working with um a little bit, uh, kind of on the side, sort of trying to do more like maybe full-time with like a coffee company, idle hands, roasting, so like getting into sales and like tasting coffees and working on quality control and just like learning a lot. I've always been like a huge coffee connoisseur and it's like, yeah, just picking something else up, seeing where that will take you, but then still trying to run at a really high level and it's like I'm training and running the same like with BD or not, you know. Obviously, financially it's looked a little bit different and I'm like trying to find work more at the moment too.
Speaker 2:It's like I really respect and kind of idolize people that aren't sponsored, that are like at the top of their game or like just pursuing running at a really high level, where it's like I don't know, it's just it's refreshing to like see people that are like not doing it, what, how you were doing at least the last decade or whatnot. Um, so that's exciting. I feel like there's a lot of new doors open for me, um, but at the same time, like am I gonna have the time to pursue like the projects and stuff I want to do? Like that's just the reality and it's not something you have to like kind of figure out along the way. You know it's. So, yeah, I feel like I still have more to kind of think about and so I yeah, if anyone else is like interested and want to hear more, hopefully I've written a piece soon that like kind of dives into it more, but it's like uh, yeah, it's, it's pretty recent, so it's kind of like, oh, like, yeah, what is my lifestyle? What is it? What am I? What is it going to look like? And I'm like 29.
Speaker 2:Do I still want to reach out to brands and play the game? Cause, like no one's. It's a game that you're playing to work with these brands Like they're, they support you and like some are better than others. But it's like you're not getting paid Like what you'd be getting paid if you were like a different role at that company. Like if you, all of those people have earned their position for a reason. I, you, all those people have earned their position for a reason.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying it's like you're not getting like a, you're barely cutting, you're barely scraping by.
Speaker 2:Like even if you have a good contract, and there's only a few people that I know that I have like and they've rightfully earned it, but they're like legends, you know, like they're not.
Speaker 2:We're not on the same playing field, you know. At least I haven't reached where they're at. So it like is it worth it to keep like just begging for pennies and stuff from brands that sort of may support you in some ways, or like not, and that's like. No, I'm not throwing shade at any company that I've worked with Like I did some crazy, crazy cool stuff with BD, the tempo films, all that stuff and maybe I'll do more of that with a brand moving forward. It's just it's unknown to me and it's like I don't know if that's even a possible career path to do the art and the creativity stuff that I was that we were discussing before, without like a golden ticket or like this or that, which even people that have those still are having a hard time getting sponsored and making money in the sport. So I know people that like that deserve solid, solid contracts that aren't getting them.
Speaker 1:So yeah, dude, I I think you nailed it. I think there's so much and first of all, thank you for being candid and being open about yeah, of course I mean, I was gonna wait till after the episode to like, once we stopped recording, to actually ask you um just you know, see, I don't just to kind of probe and see and just I'm an open book.
Speaker 1:Uh, but no, I first of all I appreciate you being so candid about it and I think there's a lot of thoughts here and the one thing I will definitely say is like I think, from a professional athlete perspective, like you don't strike me at all as someone that like needs I need this, like I get my self worth from this. Like you struck me as someone was like well, I have these incredible goals and things I want to do and a sponsor, obviously monetarily, helps open those doors and get me to those places so I could do those things Right. Like I, dude, I meet a lot of people and like there's a strong degree and it's kind of upsetting like to see a people get their self-worth from something like that.
Speaker 1:And it's like no, you shouldn't draw self-worth at all from a sponsor Because there's a hell of a lot less people sponsored than there are runners. But anyway, the other thought on that is like it's an interesting perspective too, because it's like do you want to pursue? It's it's an interesting perspective too, cause it's like do you want to pursue, do you? The only difference there is, like if you have gigantic goals, it helps to help you get those goals. But like this year is a crazy one from a budget perspective. Dude, I talked to so many frigging people that like, don't have contracts because everybody either overspent on their budget or the budgets have tightened because sales aren't as good. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a crazy. It's a crazy thing. It's a weird, weird position like in the sport right now. It's very strange. Yeah, no, I 100% agree. I think I'm just gonna get to the point and this may take hopefully not take too long, but like take some months or years. Right, I'm just doing other stuff and then I can afford to pursue my running dreams at the highest level. I mean, I can still do that here in boulder, but, you know, getting to the races, getting to do that and like however that looks like and there's plenty of people that do it, it's like, yeah, so that may take, that may take some time, but I think it's definitely doable. Um, which is cool. I think like that's a fun challenge and also like not having to be, you know, attached um to like one brand specifically and again like I'm still open to like a future relationship with the brand. It just seems unlikely at this point. It's like it may be a few years or like just the way that the market and like how brands are operating.
Speaker 2:It's like yeah yeah I don't, even if I go set like the grand teton fkt this summer, I I'd be shocked and surprised if someone was like, oh, we're gonna give you 100k now. It's like no one cares, it's like it's a cool thing, but like I don't. That's mixing up like yeah, like you said, the self-worth and like sort of the business stuff. I don't know. It just feels like that's not really going to be the model moving forward, unless you're like a courtney or a gym or a killing, like those people deserve it and they're at a different level. But it's like the everyday person or like I don't know, not everyday person, but you know what I mean. It's like I'm just another guy, you know, that has some fast times. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Do you like there and the reason I like, I don't disagree with you. I think you're a hundred percent right, but like, when it comes to like self-worth and yourself and this is this is obviously that we do. We could do a whole nother podcast on this, but like. I just read something about like how many billions were flowing into the sport in the last like year. Like it is, and I'm sure people that you're around in your circle will tell you how many billions of dollars like are in the sport and how much money the brands make.
Speaker 1:I'm a big advocate of athletes getting paid like. It drives me crazy to hear like people scraping by on pennies and not being able to do what they want to do and get to make and go to these places. Yes, it helped that it helps, but like dude, even like and this isn't I don't want to do and get to make and go to these places. Yes, it helped that it helps, but like dude, even like and this isn't I don't want to give too much inside baseball, but like you can attest to this like even getting paid by a brand like dude, sometimes it's a little slow, like it's, it's not exactly an easy thing.
Speaker 1:Like and it takes time, so like it of. And this is like I'm not shitting on brands, like I listen, I'm an athlete, like I, you know, not saying anything negative, it's just that like I think the system needs to be reformed. I think there's a lot of things to like, they need to fix. Like one is like the whole contract employee thing. Like why can't we just like if, even if someone's on a contract for a year, make them a W2 employee for a year so they can get healthcare? You know like there's a lot of like little things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean honestly, when you were like I'm not shitting on the brands, it's like I don't, I'm just being honest. Like every brand that I've worked with basically doesn't pay on time. I mean that.
Speaker 2:I mean like, oh, you look at the fine print and it's like, oh, it's like it has athlete. It's really unclear and and maybe I just need to do more like due diligence before and the contracts and stuff, but still like, even talking with managers and all like it's never clear, it's never like. You always feel as the athlete that you're kind of like, oh like, you're like kind of like having to ask or the email or kind of like not beg, but just be like you don't feel like it's yours, you know like you feel like you're having to ask yeah, you're having to like ask for it and it doesn't like. It feels like a weird exchange where it's like you don't really feel like an employee. I mean, you're yeah, you're not on the w2, so but you feel like you're also giving a lot and you're doing a lot and it's hard to quantify what exactly that is like and I'm gonna see this from the brand's perspective. It's like what value? And we can, I could analyze myself. It's like what is the? What value do you bring to the brand? Why should they pay you? Um, and I feel like that is an interesting question, because maybe you're like I don't deserve to be paid because I'm not. It just depends For me.
Speaker 2:I feel like I bring a lot of expertise, at least when it comes to designing gears that are really designed for doing stuff in the mountains. A lot of my work with BD is product testing and really honing in on what's the perfect piece for X, y or Z or this objective, like what's the perfect piece for X, y or Z, or this objective or this like, and really getting down to like the details, like we can make a good puffy jacket or like this or that, but it's yeah, how do we make an innovative new product? It's like that's. My brain's always thinking about that stuff and I think I mentioned like yeah, like a non-traditional athlete role with a brand, and that's kind of what I have with BD is like, yeah, these people, they perform at a really high level, they're doing cutting edge stuff, but it's like I don't have a small following on Instagram like I'm. I'm not like really selling a ton of gear. I mean, I get a lot of questions about that stuff, but it's it's probably not that much, but you know I can. I have lots of really good ideas in terms of like how to make the best mountain running gear and like you want to talk to me about that. We should talk, because that's where brands are really going to excel.
Speaker 2:Everyone's trying to make the same stuff and it's like not that great. The fits off, like it it's not. Yeah, it's not designed like with with the top tier athletes or someone's mind. That's like thinking about this stuff like a lot of athletes. They don't really care about like a ton of input or like the stuff just works so that's just not their gig. Their gig is like winning western or you know they're doing crazy like other goals.
Speaker 2:I feel like I was always like pretty goal-oriented with like products and like different innovative stuff. Like I was always like pretty goal oriented with like products and like different innovative stuff and I wasn't like the key person, like designing all of it, but I was definitely trying to help from the athlete um side of things and that's a lot of testing. Like it always frustrate me when like we'd get a product and like never have enough time to test it the right way. It's like I need to run in this thing like a hundred times before we can talk about durability. It's like I can't take it out on one run and be like oh you know it's broken and sometimes that would happen or like it's.
Speaker 2:It's a process and it's like to really like nail down like great gear. It doesn't happen overnight and I feel like it's pretty easy to kind of just gloss over the whole athlete testing, product design, research, all that stuff and just kind of like other people at the office are doing it, the designers themselves are doing, but sometimes those people aren't runners, they're like outdoor people but they're not like yeah, they're just not super specific for what the task is and if you come at it from an from the angle of being an expert, it's like you can really get it right. You know it's so rare to get like road running is better at this because I I don't know, like just shorts and that kind of stuff seem to fit better. But like yeah, a lot of like the mountain brands, like yeah, it's even patagonia. It's like I still find stuff that bugs me. It doesn't pick right.
Speaker 2:I could make this better. Yeah, really try to optimize that. I always think about gear and geeking out on that stuff and optimizing for weight and durability, but what's the lightest that you can go but still be. I mean that's nerdy and maybe not marketable to a ton of people. But I think there is a space. Like people are spending money on shirts that have moths that have eaten through the shirt. It's like, come on, people will spend on a nice like running pack. You know, like the bd distance eight, like it's a great pack, like little things on that that really make it work. You know, it's like I don't know that that kind of stuff gets me like pretty amped dude, the distance line.
Speaker 1:I had so much like faith in it. I was so like dude, all right, first of all, the the. What is the that amazing? Is it the distant shirt? What the hell is the name of that shirt that you guys had?
Speaker 2:uh, the super light new yarn short shirt that you guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about um like dude that that was so dialed.
Speaker 1:That's still, to this day, my favorite running shirt, like I have like five of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, they're super nice.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of things in that distance line that you guys had that I was so stoked on, and then I feel like they kind of like pulled back on it and there, just like wasn't, they took like I don't know. I just feel like maybe they've pulled back and I don't want to speak for them, but like maybe they've pulled back from trail running in a way which is kind of just disappointing, just because I think that like at one point in time, like, had they like put the right investment into it, like, dude, they could have been bigger than arcteryx. Like from a running perspective, it's crazy yeah shit, it's so true.
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk like.
Speaker 2:I'm not yeah that's just the truth though. So, like I'm not hate, yeah, that is. Yeah, you said it really well. I mean it's yeah, it's a bummer and it's like hard to work in that environment and like, at the end of the day, it's a business and it's just for money it's. It's like they're all the reasons those changes happen is because, oh, we need to tighten the budget and it's like it's just difficult. And sometimes you have people that have to make the cuts, that don't like know too much about running or how integral a piece of like an ice ax loop or something like that is um critical to the, to the kid that it's like, yeah, I don't know, it just gets kind of of. That's one of the reasons why I'm psyched not to be um working with any brands right now, but I feel like that's probably a reality out. A lot of brands is just kind of the way it works. It's like a tug and pull, like trying to. The athlete wants this, the market, we think, wants this. We'll meet somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1:Hopefully the product lands yeah, yeah, and then they have to meet their certain skews and the ordering it's crazy, it's. It's an interesting I don't think like and I don't know, the average person listening to this probably has like no idea the way it works and it's like so not the way people think it works, like. People think that there's like a product and then like that product serves a need, but no, it's, it's much different than that.
Speaker 2:Um, it's funny like comparing that to art and like I was just thinking about filmmaking and like thinking about tempo and all this stuff and uh, how that it's. There's such a joy and the like, a joy to the freedom of collaborating and not feeling like what you want to do is going to get like ruined. You know, like if you have an idea and you're with your friends, you're like we're going to make this, we're going to stay true to this, we're going to ride it all the way out and have a brand like bd, support it and not all not mess with it and not change it. Um is rare. So like thinking about, like how awesome that is, and like the free, the freedom, and just to be able to I don't know create something that isn't altered, like coming up with we're gonna do this film where it's running, like the rhythm and motion. Let's explore that. What does that look like on a screen? It's like drumming and running at the same time. Like when you're out running, you decide to like head off onto like a little different trail or like a social trail, or go up a ridge or something. It's like more on the, on the yeah, on the fly, you're improvising. There's a freedom to that and that's so nice and refreshing.
Speaker 2:And sometimes corporate, like business, it kind of like it doesn't really want that. Like like business. It kind of like it doesn't really want that, like it doesn't seem like that, even though that there is success when that, when when you really like ride it out, but like the initial thought is to go against, that is to not really express yourself, and like kind of like push the edges. It's like, oh, you have to conform, do it this way, and like kind of we have to fit the campaign and have the logos in the right spot, whereas like what if we just think of a dope idea and go do it and then if it works, then it like then it works. I was talking to my friend brennan. We always like remind each other that it's like you have to do the craft and what you love to do first and then we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:If someone picks it up. Don't create something in mind, trying to please a brand or like I'm going to go shoot this photo because I know that this brand is going to like these photos. It's like, no, go take the photo that you want to take when you're out running and you see this shot. It like lines up and you're like that is the photo, like I've been the last couple of weeks, like I knew I was waiting for the conditions lineup, I knew it was that and it's like do that and then, no matter what, like I think you'll just be happy at the end of the day and I think someone I'm like trying to hold on to this thought, someone will see it, someone will recognize that and like add value to it.
Speaker 2:Or like see the value that you have to give in that aspect and like maybe that's a brand sponsoring you and you have a good relationship. Or maybe it's like you write an article for like the new york times and they're like you just find like a weird relationship that it's like you can still do what you want to do and no one's like altering it. You like you can, you can live out the full vision of the project or the idea or the run or the adventure.
Speaker 2:And I feel like, yeah, exactly, Exactly. That's like the. Just sum it up in one word.
Speaker 1:No, dude, you nailed it Like and maybe you could speak to this more and I guess I have been dying. I ask this question a lot to people because we live in a world and this is not to on social media as much as it sounds like it's coming across. But, like you had mentioned at the beginning of the episode, you're like I'm trying to stay more off my phone. Dude, I do the same thing. Like I find myself, especially for the podcast or if it's for sponsors or for whatever, I'm on my Instagram entirely like way more hours of the day than I want to be in a world that you notice, like, where you see a lot of people trying to be someone else. I find it very refreshing to talk to someone like you. You are one authentic human dude like I. I have not met too many people like you you're an interesting, cool character.
Speaker 1:So how do you, how do you stay true to yourself? Like because I'm sure, like you, especially as a professional athlete, it's a pain in the ass, dude. Like you have brands telling you to do one thing and wanting you to fit like you said, fit this campaign, or help with this and that, but also maintaining your like, for instance, like you don't race that much. You know you, you have your art, you have your fkts and that's the way you do things, and when you do them, you do them to an extremely high level, but you're not like everybody else. Like, has it been difficult trying to stay true to who you are over the years?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, there's been moments where it's like you know, you're, you're, you're coming to a point where you kind of have to like ask yourself that, but it's never been like. I've never been too lost in terms of like what that looks like. I feel like how I got into the sport from a really young age and then just progressing through moving to college here, it's like everything just like kind of happened and it's such a natural way that I never had to question that. It's like I was running around here. I think like I did the LA freeway, which is in my backyard, not hard to get to, and like then BD was like pretty psyched to bring me on onto the team and it's like that didn't feel forced, I was just I was going to do the LA freeway regardless of I wasn't at that point looking to like work with any brands. I was unsponsored, like you know. I definitely knew that if I was going to do stuff like that, that opportunity could maybe come, but that wasn't like what was motivating me to get out there and so that's. I've always just kind of like held that pretty close. So I don't think I've ever really questioned, had to think about that.
Speaker 2:I think, when it comes down to like the, the thing that's making me think more about that, I guess, is like, can you fast track the spot that you're in now to to like go race to gama? Or like, go do what I was telling? Like some of the things I was talking about, like, is there a way to, like I, I'm thinking about those things in my head? It'd be easy for me to be like, I'm gonna make those, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna do anything to make these happen. Now I'm gonna work with any brand that reaches out. Basically, I'm gonna reach out to every brand and be like who, who wants to sign me? Like I don't know, just like, work the game in a way where it's doesn't feel authentic, but I know I will. It will get me to like zagama, but who knows what will happen if I try to do that like, I feel like that's a kind of a dangerous game yeah if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like I kind of have to like if running and my projects have to take a back seat right now, like that's just what it is. You know, um, and I'm not saying it is right now, but I'm very open to the idea that it could and I'm like taking that pretty serious and like pursuing other stuff, other work opportunities and yeah, and seeing like, oh, can I also maintain, like I said, maintain the running and like stuff I want to do outside, like I don't know if I'm going to be able to take off weeks to go bikepacking like link up peaks. I hope so. Like I really hope that I can like it's something I'm working on every day is so like, yeah, be able to do the things I want to do. It's just I can't predict and I don't want it to.
Speaker 2:I feel like that kind of like puts pressure. Yeah, to kind of like sell my soul or like do something. Yeah, that just isn't authentic. Like I kind of need to. I have these skills and I know that I can make money doing them. It's just like I need to like get back to, like the practice room and just like really perfect what I'm doing, you know, and that looks like running, that's music, that's like coffee. Now that's um, hopefully some other opportunities that I'm kind of got in the works, but yeah, it's, it's kind of different than the finn podcast, where I'm like sponsored, I'm planning trips, I'm planning races and stuff, and it's like that mindset is just different, you know, and you don't have the stress or like the other work stuff to think about. You know, and I feel like that's probably like a lot of people, it's like pretty normal for that to happen.
Speaker 1:So, so, um, it's interesting, man, your perspective is unique and the one thing I will say as well is that not to pivot hard, but just something I was kind of a note I was thinking about is that, like we are in like this new place right when there are athletes that like are more adventure based athletes on the FKT side, like your Chris Fishers of the world, your Aaron tons of the world world I finally got her last name right um like there are athletes that are able to make it like in the fkt space as far as like making a full-time living.
Speaker 1:Like I just talked to chris yesterday, like he was very candid about like the fact that it's not easy and like he has like huge goals in the himalaya that he wants to tackle and like you know, his family has to help him like to get him to that level that he wants to get to. Like it's it's fucking hard, dude, but like there are, it seems like there are more possibilities opening up for um and for those athletes that are more adventure-based. But like, dude, you're also interesting because like you have the like world-class talent not saying that they don't, but like you have this like world-class ability to be able to also race at a high level, should you want to like like you could go to the sky running series and and place like easily um I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean the one, the one race that I did. I got wallace. I did not have a good day like and that's still, it was when I did the trump so sky race.
Speaker 2:I got destroyed and like years ago, though it was a long time yeah, no, I know, but still like I was like, no, I could have done way better. It's still a mystery to me. Like I had the worst cramping I've ever had in my life and like never had that issue since and it was like it was a freak thing that I've never experienced and it was like such a bummer. Like I'm not saying I would have, I think I could have podiumed on if I had felt good, like I don't think I was going to be John Alvin, but still like I just thought it's days like that where you're just like, ah, like racing sucks.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I mean it's so cool Cause it like. It's like it forced me to be present and like deal with the cramps and just get through the race Like I was. I traveled to Norway for the first time. I the cramps and just get through the race like I was. I traveled to norway for the first time.
Speaker 2:I wasn't gonna drop out like it was a 50k, but it's like still like something about fkt is just it's a little like I just keep harping on the art and the creativity part.
Speaker 2:It just like it allows a little bit more I don't know nuance and expression there whereas, like racing, it's like very like this is the course these are your competitors like and that and that's like racing, it's like very like this is the course these are your competitors like and that and that's cool, that it's distilled to that, like they're just different.
Speaker 2:You know, and I, like I said, I do want to do more of the like racing, just kind of like respect to just show up, even like who knows? Like, even if you don't have a good day, it's like you, you got to the start line and showed up. There's like some big respect that goes along with just doing that, because you can easily tap out and just be like, oh, I'm injured, I'm not feeling it, or just like I'm not fit enough, like you're some insecurity. You know, like I feel like showing up to the start lines, like you're secure in your abilities and like what you're capable of, and like whether that's finishing or PRing or whatnot. It's like you're showing up that day and that's like takes a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man, it's, it's. It's an interesting dichotomy. I so I'm dying to ask you the question because you were the one you said it. You said the grand um.
Speaker 2:I heard rumblings years back that you were considering going for that record and I mean it's iconic people that could do it I mean, yeah, I don't know, like I the longs record I was like never. It took like a decade for me to wrap my head around andy anderson's time. So I've gone up the grand a few times and it's, yeah, that's gonna be pretty hard to beat, but I think just going out there to give a fast time or going out there to spend more time, it's a, yeah, beautiful place and it's kind of like the perfect mix of, like you know, technical, a little bit of scrambling exposure. Like that stuff is, yeah, I feel like I could run fast, but there's some, yeah, fast, fast times. Um, but yeah, that that's been on the bucket list for like a couple years now. But like, yeah, just injuries and stuff.
Speaker 2:And andy anderson set I'm not I forget how old he was when he set that record, but like on longs he was like 38 or something you know. So like it's time he we had we ran up the longs a couple years ago and he helped give me like really good perspective on like longevity and like just the ebbs and flows of like running and what that looks like later in life and like yeah, so I try not to like get ahead of myself or force it Like I want to go and like spend some time and then like do it and then, yeah, kind of move on to the next thing. It's not something. Yeah, I don't want to like go up there and come back. It's just not going to be the same thing I had with long, so I could just do it a bunch and like really intimately learn that I don't live there.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, some peaks I, yeah, you just can maybe spend a little bit of time and then just kind of give it an effort and just see what happens. I feel like that's pretty cool Versus like a something that you really really know. Well, I'm not going to know every step of the grand. I'm just going to be honest because I'm not going to spend enough time that it takes to do that. Whereas, like longs peak, I went up at enough where I was like very much aware of like every step.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think Michelino said he had like names for his rocks on the ground, like he was like yeah, exactly, so freaking dialed with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:That's a great yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, let's start winding down now. I am so curious to see who inspires you.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of people that inspire me. I mean first, right off the top of my head, is definitely my partner, abby. She's a total inspiration and she runs at such a high level and also works a full-time job and it's like, yeah, she's at our office right now working. It's like she has her work ethic, is like through the roof and like she definitely brings me up to a higher standard in terms of, like productivity, like doing everything that you can doing more than that you should. Like taking on more projects, like just doing as much as you can and like maximizing every minute of the day.
Speaker 1:like she does that so well, like she's a huge part of the trail running community too, like she's, yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 2:So she's totally immersed in the sport and like all aspects or what with her job at at outside, and it's like I'm like I gotta set my game up. You know like I'm I don't say I'm slacking, but I'm like I definitely need to set my game up just in terms of like maximizing every minute. Like you can run at a high level, you can train as much as you want. You'll hurt yourself before you run out of time to train and pursue like a career and like other life goals, other crafts, like the music, photography, all this other stuff, and still have time to like watch tv at the end of the night. You know like just yeah, being productive, and that's like I find super inspiring. And she's like super self-motivated, independent, like, yeah, that's definitely every day. It's like just like have abby, just like she's the standard of like this, like just put in good work, like do your best. You know like even if you have some challenges, you know just kind of like lean into it, it's okay, and like you're gonna be able to, it's okay, you're gonna go to bed at night, and it's like things shouldn't be easy, you shouldn't be just like coasting, um, like you need challenges to like push you and so like it's easy, at least with the athlete role. Oh, I'm recovering. I'm doing like I'm taking all day to like push you and so like it's easy, at least with the athlete role.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm recovering. I'm doing like I'm taking all day to like I don't know. I mean, I've definitely done that in the past and but like now I'm like I'm trying to grind and like hustle and yeah, really like put my best foot forth every day, and it's like she's doing that with like no one's telling her to do that. She's just like super driven. Um, but then, like my family inspires me, like there are different careers in my, I have a twin brother and a younger sister and just like even my parents, it's like that's inspiring, like everyone just to think about, like when we're catching up, or like what they're doing at work, or like just yeah, they're everyone's like trying to do their best your brother lives in durango right yep I think my wedding photographer, colt fetters, is good friends with him pretty sure, oh, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, cool, yeah, cool like small world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's like matthew's a great runner too, and it's like he's not sponsored. He's never been sponsored and it's like I don't know. It's like, in some ways, the best performances I think I've ever had. It's like I've I don't know, I've just kind of like been at peace or like cared the least, if that makes sense, like I'm not. I'm just like doing it because I love it so much.
Speaker 2:I'm not wrapped up in like a number or an FKT or like, oh, this is going to get me to a job or something. It's like, oh, this is gonna get me to a job or something. It's like you're just like oh so psyched to go give it a hard effort up the peak. You know sometimes like that's all it takes. You just have a good day. I mean that's like the longest fkt.
Speaker 2:It was kind of the last opportunity of the season and it's like okay, like you kind of like force yourself to go today. It's like I mean, what if you don't get it? It's still a sick day in the mountains. Like you, still, you're gonna be a PR regardless. Um, so kind of like try to keep that in mind and just like the inspirations that I mentioned, just like keep those from remind, like think of those every day, like don't, don't lose sight of that. And that's like I'm motivated to like, yeah, figure out this next kind of chapter in my life. So, hopefully, maybe you'll see me. At a start line I was thinking, uh, I was going to tell you, cause you're down in the region, but I was like, and I don't know how you'll feel about this, but I was kind of like scheming up, um, like a solo pikes round trip effort.
Speaker 1:Yes, do it.
Speaker 2:Um, probably with support, just cause I think, uh, I, I mean, it's pretty long to be unsupported. Not that like I just want to solo shred. I don't want to do the race, I want to pick a good day, good condies and like give it a solid rip and just just just so I have a time like it's such a historic, classic, awesome peak, and like the race. I like the one time I signed up for the race it got like shortened to bar camp and I I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:I knew you did like the garden to peak challenge, but I didn't know it was the shortened version damn so, but I had to do the qualifiers to get in because I I don't even know how that works anymore, but it's like I don't want to have to do those to run the race, like I I don don't know, I just like don't even want to, maybe one day I'll do it.
Speaker 1:I can get you an elite bib. I'm on the board, so whatever you need.
Speaker 2:That's why I prefaced I was like I don't. But there's something I've always thought about doing it, like the solo shred, like yeah, and I've never, um, I've never done a proper round trip, like I've been up pikes a few times like the backside and I don't know. So there's just something appealing about that to me and I don't know, maybe you can convince me to do the race.
Speaker 1:But oh man, I I think the race is cool and this is no shade to the race. But like, dude, I I have long thought about this, like and you could? I just find it so interesting, like because the the funny thing about it is like obviously you're not going for I mean you could go for the fkt, but like that's, you know mac harpenter's yeah, no, no I mean I just want to throw down a good time like a respectable time that like in the race would have been, I just like who knows.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like I went to longs like shit on a good day like, or set like at least rip a fast round trip like, or get a good downhill time, you know. Just like.
Speaker 1:Have a great day out there, you know Um dude, if you decide to do it, you know, if you want to do it, supported like I'll, I'll be out there, on course, and I'll hook you up, man, whatever you need, that would be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you should seriously think about it, cause that would be, um, you know, especially like depending on where you're at in the summer like a nice september, august day, like especially september. It gets a little crowded there because everybody's training for the race, but, like it, really people are only like. It's only bothersome up to like through the w's and then after that it's not too bad you could rip a like a solid one, or a nice july day dude.
Speaker 1:oh man, like some of my best memories are up there, especially, especially when the storms roll in, like once you get below tree line, and like the storms start rolling in the afternoon, like so such a I don't know iconic place, beautiful peak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like I'm going to have some pressure cause I threw it out into the world, but I'm not like I have no delusion that. I was like, yeah, the record, the record, but it's like more of the um, um, just like the art of doing it at such an iconic venue, and it's like, yeah, okay, you didn't do it in the race, but it's like I don't know, I think there's something cool about not doing it in the race. Yeah, so, even if it is like an impressive time, it's like I don't know, there's a beauty to that, and I think I don't even know how many people have like, if that's ever.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously people have that, but it's like not something that I feel like a lot of people would probably focus on, like they're going to do the race, cause that's like the normal person thing to do, right, right, no, I think it's more noble to do it your way, Like, or do it, you know, in just a solo effort, just to see what happens and be like, well you know, cause you could, you know, throw down a really solid time, and it's just like one of those things that are just like that fall into lure and it's like, well, you know exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause you got to remember. In a racist, you know this it's different because you either have a rabbit to chase, to pull you up the mountain or you know, or someone pushing you on the way down.
Speaker 2:It's different when it's pretty much by yourself and you have to find your own, your own will to to see, that's I feel like that's where I thrive is like that space where it's like just me just pushing, versus like, yeah, trying to fend someone off or chase, like I love that too. But it's different when you're like I mean, noble is, I guess, a good way to put it but yeah, it's like you're just like, ah, it's just the solo, like it's all on you. It's something like honorable, like I don't know. It's like it's funny to think about it. It's like you're just a little grittier, a little like you want it to be harder Cause you want more of a challenge. I don't know, it's like kind of a fun way to, and that's like longs, all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Most of my most impressive times. It's, it's interesting. Man definitely think about it and like, if you start like starting the seriously the project, it let me know. I guess, dude, I would even like to film it a little bit if you'd let me. Like.
Speaker 2:It would be kind of cool for the podcast yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah, no, I mean definitely gonna like run up and down it a few times this summer, hopefully, like also, yeah, just spend time up high and then, yeah, on a chat with you about like a good look at the forecast and like good temps, like not too hot in town there, and just like rip, a kind of rip, a fast lap. It'd be super sick to have you out there. Yeah, man, um, maybe hand me a little bottle or two, that's right. That's right we got you steep stuff podcast.
Speaker 1:We for uh or yeah we'll do it all. Um, I'm so curious to see on a day like that, or before longs, or before you're getting ready for a hard effort, like as a music guy, like what are? You listening to like what's your? I'm sure you probably don't have a go-to song. I'm sure you listen to a ton of music but like what is? What is the song?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I feel like I listened to yeah, like you kind of you knew me. I mean I listened to hip-hop like reggae, rock and roll, all I mean shit. I could warm up to like some wilco like live tapes that could give me pretty amps. Like a good guitar solo comes on, or it's like a nice beat, I don't know kendrick comes on.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it could literally be a lot of different things or it's lately I've been listening to like samba, so like there's a couple really really really good like samba albums that have really nice tempo, that the percussion is just really constant and dance-like and that just is like gets me in the mood to like jam up and down the peak. But yeah, it kind of like looks different. And then like certainly before I'm like try to tune all that out and just like, like I don't know, zone out a little bit before starting, like kind of like really relaxed and like do some deep breathing and kind of like clear the mind a bit and then just like go, because I feel like as soon as you start running, then it's just like the blood starts pumping too fast so you can like think it's just like you're so focused.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, yeah I don't, it's funny, dude, like there's I listen to. I don't it's funny, dude, like there's I listen to. It's on a music too, so it's like I don't know, I can't, I can never just point to one thing. There's so much. Um, all right, dude, I gotta ask you a goofy question, just cause I ask everybody this it's either an AI or a man. Are you a believer? Do you believe in them? What do you think?
Speaker 2:I've gone back and forth. I feel like it's. I want to believe that there's, the galaxy is. The universe is too big, we can't even wrap our heads around it. Surely there has to be some other life forms out there. As far as the traditional alien, that like with the gray head and the little body type of thing, I don't know if that exists, but, like you hear, like different abduction stories and like people can paint such a vivid picture of what happened. But it's like I can paint pretty vivid like of dreams and stuff. So it's, I don't know, I'm undecided. I need more data.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right. Well, one last question, and I've been dying to ask you this one. When it's all said and done, when the career, when you're like I don't want to run anymore, I don't even want to look at a mountain again, which is hard for me, that's not yeah. That even want to look at a mountain again, which is hard for me. That's not. Yeah, when, what is if you haven't accomplished it yet? What is like one thing that you want to do before this is all over like uh like when you go to athletic.
Speaker 1:Endeavor type of thing, endeavor yeah, yeah, I mean shit.
Speaker 2:We could do a whole pod on the stuff that I want to do is there one that, like, trumps them like it's like the one, or no?
Speaker 2:I mean I'd like to do some like bigger, like peak bike link up type of thing, like some big, like multi-week adventure. I mean I have a lot of those types of objectives that I want to do. So I guess if I, if I had to do just one like, I would just make a massive, like I don't know, I'll link up all the 14ers and the lower 48 or like something crazy. That was like a huge type of thing. I would maybe like distill that down to like doing the Colorado 14ers. Um, so I have like lots of projects like that, like linking up peaks in different areas. Those like rise pretty high to my list just because those like you could hold on to the memories of that for like a lifetime, whereas like a little FKT is like such a blip.
Speaker 2:So I'd like, if I have, I want to do this one last soul shred like go out for a couple of weeks and just kind of like be out there unattached to your cell phone, and just kind of like be out there unattached to yeah, your cell phone and just kind of like be roaming nature. I feel like I'd have to pick that because that's like how I got started. This is just being immersed in the natural landscape. So, yeah, something like that, some big like bikepacking link up that involves running, like it could be peaks. It could be like there's some stuff in scotland that I want to go that would probably make the list pretty high. Um, like, do the Highland trail five 50, but like, do all these different like peaks along, I guess fells along the way and yeah, something, something like that I would say it's a good one, man.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Well, Kyle Richardson, it has been an absolute. Like honor dude, it's been a pleasure. I can't wait to do part two. We'll do part two in person, um looking forward to the future, the future's bright. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2:Um and yeah, man, have a great rest of your afternoon. Yeah and uh, thanks James for chatting. That was a great combo and, yeah, looking forward to round two.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode. I want to thank Kyle so much for coming on to let me help tell his story. Obviously there was some some great conversation or I mean the whole thing was a great conversation but obviously there was some harder conversation in there, with talking about sponsors and just you know, just conversation around some of the real stuff in life. You know, not everything as a professional athlete is sunshine and roses. There's a lot that goes into it, especially in the business aspect of it, and I think it's important for those of you listening to this that are aspiring professional athletes or people that are just interested to gain Kyle's perspective and understand, like you know, his journey and where he's come from. I think it means a lot. Yeah, kyle's a fucking real one man. I have to say it, like I have met very few people like him. Um, in the way he approaches the sport, it's just very different, just truly artistic, truly creative, uh, just different. And you know, his story is amazing and I'm just so excited. Uh, one for round two, the next conversation we have and where his journey takes him Cause that's someone that is definitely going places in life. So, super cool conversation. Before you guys get going, give Kyle a follow. Hop on Instagram. You can find him at Kyle Richardson. It's also going to be linked in the show notes below so you can find it there as well.
Speaker 1:Very last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review. I can't stress that enough. The more five-star rating and reviews that we get on Apple, spotify or YouTube, the more we can get this out to the world and help to continue to tell these amazing stories of these athletes doing incredible things. Um, it also helps with, you know, potential future plans. We do have a lot of plans to continue to grow this podcast and cover more of the sport in 2025. Um, and when I say that, I mean we are going to be going to a lot of big sub ultra races this year. We're going to be covering them. We're going to be doing pre-race, pre-race podcast, race reviews, pre-race interviews, post-race interviews the whole nine. We're going to be doing some serious coverage this year. So I can't do that without your guys' help and support, and that would mean the world to me Very, very.
Speaker 1:Last but not least, if you happen to be in the market for a new vest, waist belt, handheld, you name it anything hydration solutions oriented. Check out Ultimate Direction. They have you covered, guys, in March of this year. So in the next few weeks, we are going to be dropping, with Ultimate Direction, two new vests the new race vest and a new ultra vest vest. I've kind of hinted at in the past.
Speaker 1:I probably shouldn't be giving too much information away, but you guys should be so stoked for these Definitely game changers. Get a change the entire way things are looked at. Truly innovative products in the space that I think you guys are going to love. So, hop on ultimatedirectioncom. Those are going to be available and you can get 25% off your cart using code. Steep stuff pod. Uh, check those out. Let me know what you guys think. Um, and we're going to have a big announcement coming. I think I'm going to announce it next week. We've got reels, we've got all kinds of stuff coming out. Um, for our one year anniversary. Uh, that's going to be really exciting. And uh, yeah, life is great. So many good things here. So thanks, guys, thanks for tuning in. Enjoy. I hope you enjoyed it. Have a great rest of your weekend, thank you you.
