The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#77 - Jane Maus
Trail running defies easy categorization, and Jane Maus embodies this truth perfectly. From soccer fields to technical mountain ridges, Jane's athletic journey has been anything but conventional. In this revealing conversation, she takes us behind the scenes of her recent Black Canyon 100K experience, where stomach issues forced her to drop at mile 46 despite running alongside the elite women.
Jane doesn't just race trails—she lives them. After relocating to Boulder from Salt Lake City, she now shares a house at 8,500 feet with professional runners Johnny Luna-Lima, Bailey Kowalczyk, and Chris Myers. This immersive environment has transformed her training, though she admits the intensity can be overwhelming. "Everything is running-focused," she explains, which proves beneficial when healthy but challenging during injuries or downtime.
What sets Jane apart is her identity as a mountain athlete first and runner second. Her climbing background and comfort on technical terrain have shaped her racing success, most notably at last year's A-Basin Cirque Series where she took the overall women's win against a stacked field. That performance caught industry attention and ultimately led to her partnership with La Sportiva—a connection she initiated herself by reaching out directly.
As a registered dietitian now working alongside renowned mountain sports nutritionist Vic Johnson, Jane brings professional insight to her fueling strategy, making her candid discussion of her Black Canyon nutrition failures particularly valuable. The conversation weaves through her mixed feelings about the sport's commercialization, her dream FKT attempts like the Wasatch Ultimate Ridge Linkup, and how she maintains authenticity in an increasingly media-driven environment.
Whether you're navigating your own relationship with running, curious about high-altitude training, or figuring out how to fuel your ultramarathons, Jane's thoughtful perspective offers both practical wisdom and inspiration. Follow her journey as she continues blending competitive racing with the pure joy of moving through mountains.
Follow Jane on IG - @_janemaus_
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys today's episode with none other than my La Sportiva teammate, ms Jane Moss. Guys, what a great conversation, jane you guys probably know that name from her free trail interview and associated dub at last year's Cirque Series Arapahoe Basin Race, which was a highly contested, super competitive race where Jane took the overall win for the ladies Guys really fun conversation. We caught up with Jane right after her most recent race at the Black Canyon 100K, where she unfortunately had to drop, but we talked all about all the things. She learned, a lot of lessons that she took away what it's like living in Boulder now having relocated from Salt Lake, and just a lot of fun things what it's like now being an athlete in the sport and what she likes and what she doesn't like. So really fun conversation. I really appreciated Jane Hope. This is the first of many conversations we also got into. Jane is also a dietitian, so we got into some of that conversation as well, like fueling and things like that. Yeah, we're super fun. Things like that, um, yeah, we're super fun. So, without further ado, I'm going to stop mumbling. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Uh, here we go. It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live People Earth. Listen up.
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Speaker 1:Hop on ultimate directioncom right now. Use code steep stuff pod for 25% off your cart. Again, like I said, use code steep stuff pod. Treat yourself to one of these I think you guys are going to love them. I'd love to hear your feedback. Let me know what you think. Enjoy, jane Moss. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. Yeah, I'm stoked to be chatting today.
Speaker 1:I know I'm so stoked to finally have you on the pod. Congratulations, welcome to the La Sportiva team. First and foremost, it's pretty stoked to have I feel like we finally signed a bunch more awesome women this year, so it's exciting to have you on the team and looking, you know it's going to be fun.
Speaker 2:So I'm excited. Yeah, I wasn't really expecting this year to go that way, but I'm I'm really stoked, that stoked to be part of the team it's going to be funnier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is going to be fun. Well, how's your day going so far?
Speaker 2:It's going good. It's winter came back to Boulder, so it's like a gloomy cold day here. Um so winter conditions on my run this morning. But so far so good.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. Yeah, it was a little cooler today than I expected it to be. I'm hoping, I'm stoked that. I think tomorrow is supposed to warm back up and like Sunday is supposed to be. I don't know about you guys, but like we're supposed to be in the Springs, like almost back into the sixties, which is a little weird for march, but I'll take it. It's great for training.
Speaker 2:so yeah, it's like our third. Our third fake spring yeah, right, right it's.
Speaker 1:Uh, I don't know. I feel like there's going to be a lot of either like overly fit trail runners from like the front range this summer, or like really burnt out trail runners from the front range of the summer that just like over trained because we had like a really like warm winter, which was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Although I mean I just moved here, but I hear March is like the heavy snow month, so I'm not, I'm not getting too excited for spring yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to be interesting. We could get dumped on like I moved here. I moved to the front range five years, is it like? Yeah, five years ago now, from Florida, and the day we got here we got I think it was like two feet of snow, something like that. It was like a massive storm. So yeah, sometimes March gets kind of wild.
Speaker 1:So I don't know you know, it could, might not, you know. Last year, I think it was the March storm where, like, there was guys skiing off the Manitou incline. So yeah, it could happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe it All right.
Speaker 1:So let's, uh, let's, let's talk about you. Uh, I want to dive a little bit into your backgrounds and maybe, maybe, give me like the five, uh, five minute elevator pitch on, like your relationship with running, how you got into running and go from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I, I've been an athlete my whole life. I grew up playing a bunch of different sports. Um, I've been an athlete my whole life. I grew up playing a bunch of different sports. My parents put me in like basketball, soccer, track and field, gymnastics. I did pretty competitive track and field like through elementary school up into middle school and then in high school focused on track and field and soccer and soccer kind of became my main sport. So I played soccer in high school.
Speaker 2:I actually mean me and Grayson Murphy were on the same high school soccer team and club team and we were always yeah, we were always like we were the two fastest on the team and the cross country coach would always try and poach us and we were like why would we do cross country? Like what's the point of running? Just to run? Like soccer is fun, because there's another objective. So I focused on soccer in high school and decided I wanted to try and play in college. So I ended up playing. I played one year at a Division III school in Minnesota. My extended family's from Minnesota and my parents both went to the school so it was kind of like a home away from home. So I played for a year there to the school. So it was kind of like a home away from home. So I played for a year there. It wasn't the best fit so I ended up transferring back to school at the University of Utah. Because I was born and raised in Salt Lake and because, like most of the sports I'd done my whole life were running focused, I just decided to keep running, so signed up for a road marathon. I feel like that's how a lot of. I feel like that's how it goes with a lot of people, but didn't know how to run long distances. I think my long run was eight miles and I was totally destroyed after the race and I was like I don't want to do this again. But then, like two weeks, two weeks later, I signed up for another one and kind of kind of got hooked on that. And then, let's see, I did the next year, me and my sister hiked the. We did the Camino de Santiago in Spain. So that's like a for people who don't know it's like a 500 mile. It's technically a. For people who don't know it's like a 500 mile, it's technically a pilgrimage. So it starts in France and then you do like 500 miles across northern Spain, um, so it's not like backpacking or running or anything, but we were walking like 20 plus miles every day. So we got really fit, um.
Speaker 2:And when I came back from that living in Utah, I saw there was a Cirque series so I signed up for that, um. So I was like I think I don't really know what trail running is, but I feel pretty fit from walking all summer long. Um, so I raced that was the snowbird one, um, and I got second place woman, by like 20 seconds and I was like so shocked I was like, whoa, maybe I could be kind of good at this, um, but I didn't. I was like, whoa, maybe I could be kind of good at this Um, but I didn't. Like I was so shocked I was like I didn't know trail running was a thing and this was back in 2017. Um, so then like got kind of hooked on trail running and then the next year ended up, uh, hiking the Colorado trail and I think that's kind of the pivotal point for me where I was like I really like trails, I really like the mountains. Um, I really like going long, long ways.
Speaker 2:So then after that I signed up for a 50 K and then it just kind of went from there. So that was in 2018. So since then I've been trail running a lot. Um, I've done a lot of random races. Um started working with a coach in 2019. I started working with anime Flynn.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, um, I didn't know you guys were. Oh, that's crazy and it means it was a friend of mine. She's cool people, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, yeah, yeah. So 2019, 2020, 2021, I worked with her Um and that's kind of when I decided to take running more seriously. But since then I it was was like 2020, I trained a lot but didn't race because it was COVID, and then 2021 took a significant amount of time off for injury. 2022 was probably my most solid year of racing and I, like, was dreaming big and had all these goals, and then 2023 took a significant amount of time off. 2024 kind of just refound my psych for running. Um, I'm training a lot smarter, um managing my injuries a lot better. So I'm like, although I've been running for a really long time, um, I kind of feel like I'm just getting started. It's like a fresh start because I feel like there's a lot of opportunities and I'm finally running healthy. So, uh, that's kind of yeah, how I got into the sport, I guess.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. I have so many questions off this. First of all, like I don't know, I just had like Flannery Davis love, who also lives in the Boulder area on the pod, and like it's just interesting to me more soccer players Cause that's what my like non-traditional background was was in soccer as well, and seeing more soccer players like coming into the sport and like have like moderate success is pretty cool. Like you don't have to come from like a straight up, like super traditional track and field background, like soccer, with soccer you still have, you know, like those developed systems to be able to have success at the trails, which is awesome I'm curious about. I do want to shift the gears a little bit to grayson, like obviously, like she's a what is it? Two time world champion, like probably the best woman in the sport, like on the, especially on the sub ultra side, like seeing her married meteoric rise in the sport. Was that like a major influence for you to like onto the trails? Like how to? How did that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was into trail running, um, a couple of years before her and she messaged me one day and was like I really want to try trail running. Are you doing the bright? This was before the Brighton Cirque Series race. She's like, are you going to do that? And I'm like, yeah, I'm signed up. She's like, can I come with you to the race? So we carpooled. She was like, ask me trail running advice. She's like, do you like hike the hills or do you run the whole thing? And it was really cool. I was like I'm honored, you're asking me for advice, Cause she was had been like so successful on the track and in college and such up to this point, um.
Speaker 2:And so then she, uh, she won that race or got second I don't remember Um, but that was. That was really cool to see Um and to see like her instant success. I mean I knew she would be really good because she was always like the fastest on the soccer team. But yeah, I'll take the brag on that one that I was in tutorial running before Grayson Murphy.
Speaker 1:I would also take the credit. You just helped create a two-time, possibly three-time, world champion, which is kind of wild. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:I'll take some credit. She's listening to this. Yeah, she owes you kudos. There you go. No, that's super cool.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting to me and I also really like how the Cirque series is like kind of I don't know very important to your story in a lot of ways, with it being your first trial race Like I raced the Cirque, like all the almost all the races last summer, um, and I'll be doing with sportiva, like we have obviously, you know, like they're sponsoring it this year, so you know, a lot of sportive athletes will be at a lot of the events and and there'll be some east coast events, there's a lot more events. So I I just find it really fun and interesting that, um, it's so integral to your um kind of your story. So, and you've done so well, like I was impressed, like a basin was a super stacked race last year and you kind of show up and like beat a lot of really strong women and really strong men and uh took the dub there and we'll talk about that in a little bit, but um, yeah, it was just very impressive to me.
Speaker 2:Thanks. And yeah, I will say with Cirque series, like I've had that same race, I went with Grayson I actually actually because I got really competitive, because I was like maybe I can beat her. Uh, she's never done a trail race, um. So I was going really fast on this ridge section and I tripped and smashed my face and actually broke my nose and oh my gosh I guess call it a dnf.
Speaker 2:But I stopped at mile two and had to get nose surgery. So that was my, my, uh, another circ series story, so lots of ups and downs.
Speaker 1:That Brighton course. I was a little bummed. Julian got rid of the Brighton course for this year. That Brighton course is nasty I. That was my first race. Last year I wound up going to do and yo that's. I think that's the hardest one At least I thought so, like with the Boulder field and just like the consistent up and down and the technicality to it. Like I don't know, I just didn't. I didn't like it as much just because it was just so much up and down. It was a little more brutal.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and if you're trying to go fast, it's like you can get scary yeah, and there is some like sections with consequence which I was impressed about.
Speaker 1:It was like all right, this is a little more. It's a little more like involved than I thought it would be, whereas like alta, for instance, for instance, and like Snowbird is, it's not very technical, it's just like ski roads, for instance, like it's just fast, you know. So yeah, brighton makes you think a little bit. So, yeah, no, that's crazy. So I do want to pivot a little bit. You just got back from Black Canyon where it was really fun getting to follow along and you know watch you on the live stream. You were right up there with the lead women. You know, I just want to kind of learn a little bit more about how that race was for you. Obviously, you had to drop so we could talk about some of the ups and about the downs and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that was quite the emotional rollercoaster of a race. Um, I've been signed up for black Canyon for the past three years but I've had things come up where I haven't been able to line up. So I was super excited for this year, um, so I feel like that just gives the race extra meaning to me. Um, and I had a really good training block going into it and I was really excited and I felt like I felt like I could compete with cause it was so incredibly stacked and I was like I kind of think I can compete with these women. Um, and I had it's like the first time people have really talked about me and thinking like I can do well. Um, so I did feel a little bit of pressure and I was. I was really excited to like people are believing in me. This is cool, cool, um. And so the first 50k I felt really good. Um, I was going probably like 30 seconds per mile faster than I had planned, but I felt good and I really wanted to stay in it. Um, because my my coach was like if you kind of fall behind the top 10 women, you might lose your chance at like being in it. Um, so I held back a little bit but ran like I PR'd my 50 K. They say you're not supposed to do that, but I'm like I've never been this fit for a 50 K, so I think I think it's okay.
Speaker 2:Um started the race like with a little bit of like stomach pain, but I thought that was just nerves. Um had to run to the woods twice within the first 10 miles and I was like hopefully it's just nerves. Um, I've never had GI issues in my life during running so I'm like thought that wouldn't affect me. Um, thought I had kind of figured that out. But then starting, so I came into bumblebee feeling really good and then came out of bumblebee um passed quite a few women and was like like I passed Abby Hall and I was like I should not be running here, like I'm going way too fast.
Speaker 2:And then every time I took a sip of something I would like spit up a little bit and then, coming into the next aid station where I was picking up Grayson was my pacer for that point I felt super sick, hadn't been able to keep down any food for the last 10 miles, but made it in still in it. I was like in a decent spot. I think I was seventh place woman maybe, and at that point I was like I think, like I think I might drop right here. But I was like I can't drop yet, I still have more in me. So we ran like another mile and then I just threw up like five times so much lime green file. It was so gross. But then I felt way better so I was like, hey, I'm not going to drop, let's keep going. But then every time I tried to sip on something or eat something it would come right back up. So it was like a death slog to the next aid station. I ended up dropping it mile 46. Because I just couldn't keep anything down and that's never happened to me before.
Speaker 2:But I've like, reflecting on what I did, I also work as a dietician, so it's like embarrassing that this happens to me because like I know I know what to do but like with the hot pace I was eating a little bit more than I was used to and I fell behind on my hydration and it's just like so many different multifactorial things just blew up in my face. So it was a good learning experience that I really have to have, like all of the little things like dialed if I want to compete at this level. Um. So the race sucked really really bad.
Speaker 2:It took me like a week to recover from like how bummed I was and running through all the possible scenarios about like what could have happened if it would have gone well for me. Um, but it was a really good learning opportunity. I think I probably had a little something going into it that contributed to the GI, but also a lot of rookie nutrition mistakes that I was making. So, moving on from that, but I'm glad, I'm glad. No, I'm not glad it happened, but I'm glad to have learned a lot of things from it.
Speaker 1:See, I totally understand your perspective but like, if anything I don't know, like it's, it's a weird position to be in because I feel like it should be a confidence booster. I know, maybe not from like your perspective, but like from outside, it's like, okay, you can hang with these ladies, Like you can beat most of them on any given. Like you have an ability to go win that race, like in the next few years for sure, there's no doubt Um, just by being able to hang in the top 10 of the women in the top five. You know the stomach situation. I mean, you're a dietitian, you could figure it out and we'll, we'll get to that point.
Speaker 1:Like one of the things I was going to ask you, is it like, how many grams of carbs were you taking down for a race like that? Like, especially cause it's so fast, it starts off kind of cold and warms up like up into the day. How do you, how do you adjust for that Cause? Like I'm, I come from such a sub ultra background that like I don't really think about that stuff Like it's, it's a it's an ultra problem in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:Totally, which is even after this race. I'm like a hundred Ks are hard to nail down. Uh, maybe I should stick to shorter stuff. Um, but I so I don't train like super high carb, like people are going crazy I've never done super well with that um, so typically I train like 70 grams per hour.
Speaker 2:At javelina I went up to 80, which was I took so many risks at javelina, but it all worked out like flawlessly. So I was like I think I can do like what I did there, obviously adjusting for like heat. Um, so black canyon, I was doing like I was doing about 85 per hour, um, which with the heat and with the hot pace and with the descent, like the whole first 30 miles is downhill, so you're like jostling your gut more. Um, it was just too too high for me.
Speaker 2:Um, but that's what I was doing was 85, which interesting I've trained with that, but I haven't like trained with that at that high of intensity, which javelina I took out at a lot lower intensity, so I think I was able to handle it better.
Speaker 1:Um, we have so many different things you have to consider when you're like at that level of competition, I guess yeah, did you adjust it all for, like the temperatures, like with it being colder in the morning and then like as it starts to warm up, like throughout the day? Like, were you consuming more liquids and then more solids, like in the beginning of the day, or more liquids as it got later, or no, is it just like gels and like? Uh, I don't know if you tell me what were you, what were you working on there?
Speaker 2:don't know. You tell me what were you, what were you working on there? Yeah, I pretty much kept it the same. So I had, uh like drink mix and electrolytes my bottles and then I was using precision gels, um, and I was. I started off a little bit lower on fluids, um, and was ramping up as it got warmer. That's something I probably would start like with with higher fluid intake. At the beginning I think I just fell behind with bumping up my carbs a little bit, um, but no, I pretty much from the whole time I was running, cause it honestly didn't end up being super long, um, cause the last 15 miles was like a crawl, um, but yeah, I kept. I mean, I I used Javelina as kind of a practice day to test out my strategy, um, and I pretty much did the same thing from start to finish, uh, but then started blockading a little bit lower fluid wise.
Speaker 1:Interesting. What'd you think of? Like strategy, wise, like is it's a weird race, like it's. It used to be to the Like it's. It used to be to the point where, like you might be able to pace yourself into like the dub, but like or at least the top 10, if you were like really smart about it. But now I feel like, if you're not in that front lead pack or watching that lead pack, like the race is going to go away from you in a lot of ways, especially like I mean, it used to be maybe less so on the women's side, but now I think it's both men's and women. It's so competitive. What was your strategy going in? Was it going to be something along the lines of sit a little bit further back and just kind of watch that front pack? What were your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so typically I'm a strong second half racer and I kind of let let people pass me in the beginning and then I can pick them off as I go. Um, but this race I was like I really want to stay in the top 10 at the beginning Cause, like I thought blowing up was a thing of past ultra running. I was like these women are not going to blow up, so if I lose them now I'm like out of the mix for the whole day. Um, but the first 50 K, like the top five women were flying and I was like, if I try and keep up with them, like I don't think that's physically possible for me. So I was like comfortably in like 12th place, I think, and I felt pretty confident that I would be able to pick some women off uh the second half of the race. So I let them pass me and I was okay with that.
Speaker 2:Um, cause looking at my paces, I was like every single person right now is, on course, record pace. There's no way people can like we that we can all sustain this for the whole race. Um, and then after Bumblebee, like that's kind of how I. I was like once I get get to bumblebee, that's when I'm going to start racing, like that's when the race is um, and I felt really good and started picking people off and I was like, okay, this is my strategy. And I mean I didn't get to really execute that, but I it's like calculated risk, like at javelina.
Speaker 2:I let a couple women pass me because I knew I wouldn't be able to keep up with them. I was like I just hope that I can, like I'm confident enough in my racing that I'll be able to catch them later on. And I was able to catch one of them and another one. The heat got to her and she kind of blew up. So I was like, ok, I'm glad I took that risk in that situation.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of a similar mindset where I'm like I'm going to let some women pass me and trust my racing style that I'll be able to catch them later. And I think that would have worked really well if I would have made it that far. And I've replayed that in my head so many times Like what if I would have started out and like let myself get to like 30th place Because some of the lead women a lot of them did blow up? So then I was like maybe I wouldn't have had the GI issues and I could have picked them off and at least finished top 10 or something. So so many what ifs? But I'm very new to racing the a hundred K distance. This is my third hundred K, but second one I've actually like tried to race. So I'm like I don't really know how to race this distance. It's hard, it's so hard.
Speaker 1:I mean ultras in general. I don't know, like I, I love the sub ultra aspect, where it's like fitness is pretty much the most important thing that matters at the end of the day, like it's how fit are you? Versus like maybe there's a few other little things that go into it. Obviously there's a few other like small variables, but, like with alters, there's just so much other stuff to figure out and it's I don't know, it's it's I don't like it.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I do either. I like, I like going hard.
Speaker 1:Well, let's get into that. So, like the other strategy I wanted to ask you about, like racing strategy too, because you kind of you went into your strategy in its own right. I think my question is in a sub-ultra race let's take Cirque Series, for instance let's think like A-Basin when that gun goes off, you're making moves from the front of that race and if you don't assert yourself early on to try and get in front and make the certain moves you need to to win that race, you're not going to win. There's a very specific strategy, whereas the strategy with an ultra, I feel you have to like, really think it through, because if you take it off from the front to the gun, most people that like front lead, like a front run, don't win the race. Like there's so much more strategy to it. So I don't know, what do you like better? Did you like like? Did you like more of the sitting back and wait and then moving up, or I'm going to assert myself from the front of the race, like in a sub ultra race?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the sitting back a little bit. Um, it's a lot scarier because in my like I don't know if it's going to work, so it kind of makes like when I'm doing it I kind of feel like sick, like is this dumb? Like I could be running faster right now, cause I'm not even close to like running like as fast as I could be, because I'm definitely holding back um. So it's like scary because you know you could be going faster but you're not. Um, but I think that's the racing style that works a lot better for me. Um, but I also really like running fast and going hard. So I like going hard the whole time and you can't do that in 100K. I also really like running for a long time. So I'm pretty torn right now with which style of racing I like better ultra or sub-ultra. But as far as racing style in ultras, I definitely do better when I race smart and start out the first half slower and then really race the second half.
Speaker 1:If you would have, if you would have gotten on the podium, would you have taken the ticket?
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Really that's interesting. I mean, I feel like it is one of those like once in a lifetime things Like if you do, or for most people, like if you get, get it.
Speaker 2:you do it like you kind of gotta go, but I don't know like that 100 miles is so far yeah, I don't really want to run 100 miles like that's longer than I've ever like saw myself running um, but I've had like a golden ticket on my mind for like six years. I was like that would be so cool to get a golden ticket, so it would definitely be like a bucket list checkbox. Never run a hundred miles again, maybe, but I would have taken it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Do you see yourself going back then to like kind of check that box and see if you can do it, cause you're so young, like why not, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely do. I'm not like on the hunt for a ticket, so I'm not going to be doing canyons, I'm just letting that pass. This year, like Black Canyon, just held meeting because I hadn't been able to race it and I've been signed up for three years. But either next year, the next year, at some point, I'll try again. I kind of feel like I'm running out of time because the sport is getting so fast. I was like too bad, I didn't do black canyon like three years ago when it wasn't as fast as it is now. But yeah, it'd be, it'd be cool to give another shot what, uh?
Speaker 1:what shoes were you wearing?
Speaker 2:I was wearing for black canada, where the prodigio pros what do you think? So far great shoe right oh yeah, and when I actually uh, was talking with las partiva at the end of last year I didn't know I'm not a big shoe buff, so I don't follow shoes or anything I didn't know they were coming out with that shoe. So I was like, what am I going to do Black Canyon in? And then that came out and I was stoked. I love it. It's a very good shoe.
Speaker 1:It is the best. I feel like I can't. This is kind of funny Like I usually used to use, like the regular prodigios from last year, as like my trainers, and like now I can't even do that Like I have to. I do like most of my runs in the pros, just because, like you, just get a little extra pop, the foam is great. I don't know. I have to say like that's one of the best pieces of shoe technology that's come out in the last like five years. It's all. That's an awesome show.
Speaker 2:It is. I've been doing all my runs in them and it's like it's getting a lot of hype, Like I thought it was just from sportiva people like promoting it, but I was like everyone's talking about how good the shoe is, so it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was Brett Hornig from a single track, like he did like a whole or some conversational pace. He'd like a whole video. I'm seeing like more and more reviews on them and people are like, yeah, I love this shoe, so it's cool. Yeah, it's. It's interesting Cause, like you know, like Sportiva is like a midsize brand, if you will, and I feel like this is like really put them got a lot of chatter, A lot of people are talking about it, which is which is neat.
Speaker 2:So it's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's cool, um all didn't realize you had just kind of like recently or semi-recently like relocated to boulder from salt lake. Is that right? Yep, how are you liking it so far? Because, like the wasatch is dope. Yeah, I love it so far. Um, I also love salt lake.
Speaker 2:I was born and raised there, though so I've been wanting a change for a very long time. Um, boulder is, honestly, very similar to salt lake. Salt lake wasn't cool until like covet hit, like the politics there are terrible and you always hate your hometown. So, like I don't like Salt Lake. But honestly, with like single track podcast and Finn like blowing it up, it's like okay, it's cool and it's now on the map. It's like a full trail running place.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I moved to Boulder in June. It was kind of just like a spontaneous I need to change, uh move and I didn't like it's expensive here and I didn't know if I would be able to live here, uh, so I put I put like a question box on Instagram to see if anyone had cheap housing or like how do you find housing in boulder? Uh, and actually I didn't know johnny luna lima at the time, but he messaged me. He's like someone sent me your story. I have a room available. This is the price and I was like I don't know anyone that lives there. But let's go ahead and do it, because I moved here to definitely focus more on running and living with him. Now I live with him, bailey and chris myers, and it's like a dream trail house and we live at 8,500 feet, can you?
Speaker 1:tell Bailey to come and do our one year podcast. I got I'm waiting for her DM back. Tell her after this I'll do that.
Speaker 2:Thank you Sorry, but uh, no, I really like it it's. I mean mean, the summer was last summer was a dream, because I was pretty much unemployed and we live like 15 to 30 minutes from all the Indian Peaks trailheads, so it was like a summer of playing. And then now in the winter, like there's a lot of trails in Boulder, I will say, winter running in Salt Lake takes the cake. Um, and every once in a while I do miss Salt Lake a lot and I don't know if I'll be here forever. I might go back to Salt Lake, but for now it's been a really good move for my running, for my mental health, for all sorts of things. It was just a good change.
Speaker 1:I like it? How do you like living with a bunch of professional runners, especially Johnny? Johnny's like the most dialed human I've ever met in my life, like he's, so like serious I guess this is the best way to describe it.
Speaker 2:Very dialed Um. Like me and him are on opposite spectrum, so he's rubbing off on me.
Speaker 2:Um, it's been. It's been really great, Like it's been a very good thing for my training. Um, they help. They've definitely helped, like, keep me smart and stay on top of my like strength training and all the things that I am good at neglecting it is it's intense, though. So if I weren't like, I think, like what if I got injured? I don't think I could live in this house. It just it becomes like it's very running focused, which for me right now, is really a benefit, and I've gotten to become such good friends with them. They've introduced me to like they've helped me build my running community in Boulder. It's been great, but it is intense. I will say that just because everything is everything's running focus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's, it's weird Cause, like, if you, I feel like if you don't eat, sleep and drink it, for me that's the greatest thing on earth, because I'm obsessed, right, and sometimes I have to be brought down back to earth and realize, oh, there's other things in life besides just running, right, I don't know. Yeah, it's weird, right, if you are injured or if you have other pursuits or other things that interest you. It can be weird at times, or or struggle, if you will. Do you feel like from a Boulder perspective, like have, from a training perspective, is there more resources there, like more gals to run with and train with and just more opportunities? Like cause, you can get a lot more of the flat stuff, but you can also get into the peaks and train and it's a little bit higher in altitude. Do you feel like it's like helped your game at all as far as improvement? And it's a little bit higher in altitude.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like it's like helped your game at all as far as improvement? Absolutely. Um, I would say I do like 98% of my training alone. I'm a very like solo runner. In Salt Lake I pretty much always ran alone. Um, I had like a couple of running buddies, but my, my community in Salt Lake was very like climbing focused, and then running was like my thing.
Speaker 2:And then moving to Boulder, since I really didn't know anybody, I put like and I'm very introverted also, so it was like this was very hard for me, but I've really put myself out there and tried to meet as many people as possible and that's like really helped me build my running community.
Speaker 2:So my running community in Boulder is like vastly bigger than it was in Salt Lake and I have way more running partners and I'm running with people like a couple times a week now and that has been and I do that because I tried really hard. I didn't try in Salt Lake because I was like I'm fine running alone. I have my other friends from high school, but here I like really, yeah, tried to build that community and I think, honestly, running with people has made like I think it's helped me stay more injury-free and it's helped me like stay way more psyched. I don't just like force myself to go out and run by myself every single day. So I think it's been a huge benefit. Like looking back on the past year, since I feel like I've taken like leaps and bounds in my running, from like loving it more and being psyched and having an actual running community. I think it's been a really good change for me also doing the same thing that you're doing makes it?
Speaker 1:yeah, because I don't know, I find myself very similar. Colorado springs is very much a growing running scene. Like we're starting to get more elites here, but, like I do maybe 70 80 of my training alone, so it's really nice to be able to find more people to train with and run with and it's like wow, this like makes it more fun. You're chatting, it makes the miles go by faster, and then if you want to compete, like like you also could see like all right, like where am I at? A little bit Like if we were doing like a workout day or something like that. So it's a good measuring stick as well, which is which is fun.
Speaker 2:Sorry I was going to say, and just going on the trails, like now I'm always seeing people I know and like I'll run a couple of miles with a friend, I'm like that's, that's, that's really cool. I didn't have that in Salt Lake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I asked Kyle Richardson, the same question. I mean it's a little bit different for you being so close to town or so new to town, but like I got to ask like I always ask people that have been in in the space for a long time that are like really I guess like semi-famous in Boulder Like does it drive you crazy? Like everybody looking at what you're doing on it's like it's almost like that thing, like everybody's doing like epic stuff all the time so you feel that need to have to get out and do epic stuff. Uh, or it's like pressure, if you will. I've always I asked that question to people all the time, cause it's there's so many people doing so many crazy stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I would say it gets to me a little bit like seeing cause I follow. I think Strava is really fun. I follow a lot of people on it and, especially when I'm not feeling great or I have like a little injury, it definitely gets me down because I'm like all these people are doing this cool stuff. But I've gotten better at it over the years with like trusting my training. I'm not a super high mileage running like I love the running I do.
Speaker 2:I wish I could be a super high mileage running, but, or high mileage runner, um, but I'm at a point where, yeah, I like really trust my training. I like follow what I'm stoked on and it's cool to see what other people are doing, uh, but it doesn't. It doesn't get to me too much of like being like I should be running those paces. I should be doing 20 miles today instead of 10, um, so, yeah, I've. I've grown, I would say, over the past few years, because I used to be in that game of like chasing numbers and doing what other people are doing, but it's ended me up injured way too many times yeah, no, fair enough, fair enough, all right.
Speaker 1:so I gotta ask this question with being in a house, especially with johnny bailey, they're going to broken arrow in June. Chris Myers is going to run what Western States? Everybody's going West. Do you think maybe, like you might try to get into like broken arrow and go go race out there in June? Like what? What is, what's the thought process on that Cause? I feel like you could seriously compete at the U S mountain running champs.
Speaker 2:My whole year. Honestly, since black cane is like a big tbd. Um, I would love to do broken arrow. I did it in 2022 and I did pretty well and it was like the funnest race I've ever raced. So I'd love to go back and do it.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if I can get in at this point because initially I didn't have it on my schedule but, like even the past week, I even have an email drafted. Right now. It's like any spots open or can I get off, get on the wait list or something. Cause now, with like all the hype around broken arrow weekend in Western States and like trail con and whatever, uh, I think it'd be super fun to be at. Um, and I was, I mean, I was looking at doing. I mean, right now I'm going to start list for gorge because I thought the U S a U S team would be really cool. Um, but something like being on the team for a race like broken arrow excites me way more than a runnable hundred K. Uh, so I don't know, 50, 50 chance, but I'll be a broken arrow. It would be fun.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, I mean we'll put that out into the world. I know Brandon listens to this, so we can always can pull those strings, get you in.
Speaker 2:If I can get in, I will be there.
Speaker 1:All right, done, deal Done. Do you think it would be the? It would be the 46 K, do you think you do? Maybe do the ascent as well. You think, maybe if you could get a bib for that as well.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. That's never appealed to me, not a weekend, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it's it. Yeah, it's not for the, unless you want like irreversible cardiac scarring. I feel like it's not for not for most people, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like going hard, but like that's a different level that I don't think I would want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, the other so, and then there's the up-down, that's at Suna P but I feel like that's a very specific.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you could do really well there too, because it's two loops. So I was thinking that because there's this. What canon circ the week before, the week after yep, week after yep, I was thinking of doing those two that's on a I have like abcd plan for my year and that's one of the options. But then I yeah, I looked at the start list I was like these, like they, it's stacked and you have to like specialize in that to do well.
Speaker 2:And yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I think broken arrow might be, it's stacked and you have to like specialize in that to do well, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I think broken arrow might be.
Speaker 1:It's a lot. I just can't wait to see, like, what happens with the 46k, like it's it's so stacked like there's going to be so many people there, so yeah, and it's like between the golden trail series race, the ascent and, uh, the 46k, it's going to be like the big and then western states the week after. It's like the biggest two weeks in our sport. Like kind of crazy yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the one time I did go out there, 2022, it was so fun and like such a community event that I would love to go back yeah, what did you race that year?
Speaker 1:was the 23k or the 46?
Speaker 2:I had the 46k, yeah, okay, okay, that was your.
Speaker 1:I think Christina got third. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, the year before that Was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we went out because I think I was out there in 22. Yeah, because that was, I think. Yeah, I don't remember, maybe it was 21. I don't know, I get my days or my years confused, but yeah, it's so much fun, it's such a blast. So, yeah, um, all right, let's pivot from from worlds, do you think all right? So circ cannon, possibly do you think you'd jump in any other circ races?
Speaker 2:yes, um, I was debating, so I really want to do speed goat and I was thinking like, is it too much to do the snowbird circ the weekend before? So that's a potential option. Um, maybe then the ones after that, like alta targi, a basin. I kind of want to do all of those nice was it?
Speaker 1:how did it feel? Because, like, that was a huge deal, like furry trail was out there last year, like it was a very stacked men's and women's field um, you know, there was a lot of coverage of it. What was that like for you? Like breaking the tape at the A-Basin race last year?
Speaker 2:It was so exciting, that was like the highlight of my summer. Um, I did not expect it to go that way. I was running. I did like my easy run the day before with Johnny and I was talking about like I'm going to get smacked. I have not done like fast, short stuff, I've only been less like doing long days playing in the mountains. He's like, yeah, you might get smacked, whatever. Um, and then, uh, I didn't know who was going to be there either.
Speaker 2:I feel like a couple big names didn't end up showing up, so I was like maybe I have a chance. Um, but it's just so different from the running that I've been used to for the past couple years and I was like I think I can just go hard from the beginning. Um, no matter like how bad it hurts, it's a very short race, um. And then at the top of the climb, I was in first and I'm not the best descender, so I was like I'm gonna go as hard as I can because I think people are gonna catch me on the descent. And then no one did and I'm not the best descender, so I was like I'm gonna go as hard as I can because I think people are gonna catch me on the descent. And then no one did and I broke the tape and I was like in in shock kind of, especially since, yeah, it was cool. Like after the race, like Dylan came up to me and was like, do you want to chat? For like free trail, and I was like what I would?
Speaker 2:love to um. So it was a very exciting day and I had like people coming up to me like to beat me and just like something that's never happened. Like something like that has never happened to me. I've like won races, but this one was like probably the biggest thing I've won. Um, I think it put, like I don't know, a few more eyes on me, which was exciting.
Speaker 1:But that's kind of where I was going with that. Did it? Was it life-changing in any way? Where that's how that conversation with Sportiva got started or how did how did that come about?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I I mean I thought it would be cool to be sponsored for like many, many years and I've won some small races and I've had big things in like in my plans, but I've just then been like knocked down by injury and I'm like I don't think I'll like ever anything will ever come up, this running thing, um. But then I actually reached out to Sportiva because I like I really like running but and it'd be cool to be sponsored by like a running brand, but especially like even kind of right now I'm kind of burnt out on all like the running hype and how like commercialized it's getting and I thought it would be cool to partner with like a mountain brand, cause I, I like I see myself as a mountain athlete, more so than a runner. So I actually went to their website and there was like a sponsorship email and I was like I probably will never hear back, but I'm just going to hit them up and see and because of my Cirque result and because they are now the lead sponsor of Cirque, they're like yeah, let's chat, we'd love to work with you. We're looking to bring on more athletes that will run more Cirque races, which I was planning on doing anyway because I love the Cirque series.
Speaker 2:But then, yeah, the conversation, I mean I emailed them in like early December, so it all happened super fast. But that's yeah, it was just like me reaching out Because, talking with my house, I was like how does this sponsorship world work? And they're like you have to reach out to brands, like, unless you're winning Western States, like brands, aren't going to reach out to you. I was like, oh, I thought people would just reach out to me. But I was like, oh, I thought I thought people would just reach out to me. But I was like, okay, I'll start sending, sending emails. But sportiva is the only company I reached out to, especially because I'm in Boulder and they're like headquartered in Boulder. So it's like it seems like a good fit. I doubt anything will come of it, but it did, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:What do you think of that new store? Isn't the store sick? It is so sick. I went there, uh, like my second week in Boulder. Johnny and Bailey took me there. They're like you need scrambling shoes, cause I didn't come here with any like appropriate shoes. They're like we're going to go do the flat irons. You need scrambling shoes. So I went to the store and tried them on. I was like I actually said when we were in there I was looking at some of the shorts. I was like, wow, this, this will be a dream sponsor.
Speaker 1:Sure enough, sure enough. I love so much advice you got, like I love the advice that you're getting from them because I feel like it's given. You have no idea how many people I talk to that are so talented in the sport but like have no clue that like you got to reach out yourself. Like if you want to make this happen, you have to advocate for yourself, because there's a lot of not only is there a lot of competition and people advocating for themselves too, but like they don't come to you. Like you said, unless you're winning Western States, unless you're, even if you're winning Cirque series, a basin, or taking the overall win at the Cirque series or golden trail series, there's still a lot of athletes that are not sponsored. You know that. Don't have that help. So yeah, it's. That's.
Speaker 1:One thing I love to hear is that like you gotta, you gotta knock down some doors if you want to, that's, if that's what you want. So let's talk. Also, I find it really interesting. One of the things you said to me was that I look at myself more as a mountain athlete than necessarily a runner. Can you, can you dive a little bit more into that and like how you view that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean I really love running. I could spend like all day running but I really love uh. Like I really love technical, like ridge traverses and scrambling and I have a climbing background, so I really love like rock climbing. Um, and I I would say like I have, like I have a lot of FKTs on my mind and big like mountain objectives on my mind. Like I listened to your podcast with like David Hedges and I was like and I just have like a lot of like if I never ran a runnable race again, like I think I'd be okay with that. Like I just like I like trails and cool places in the mountains and just like getting out and I feel like that sounds kind of cliche, but that's like I would way rather do that than have like a big sponsor and be running western states and racing a lot.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm just like, yeah, I just see myself like I I'm really good at moving over rocks quickly and climbing up rocks and I feel like I'm also like decently good at running. So it'd be cool to like combine them into like objectives, which I've been thinking more about, like reassessing my goals for the next few years. Like do I want to put myself in big races and try and get noticed, or do I want to like do what excites me and go for like objectives and FKTs and such um, and I was thinking like I'd rather have. I mean, it would be really cool to make six figures from like a company like Hoka or something, but it's also like I want to stay, like I want to train the way I want to train and do things that excite me, and if that's doesn't include like a big running sponsorship, like I'm okay with that, cause I just want to like I don't know, I just really like the mountains.
Speaker 1:No, I love the answer and it's interesting to me, especially coming from someone like who kind of grew up in mountain culture, like coming from salt Lake and like, and then also now embedded in the colorado, like boulder scene, like there's something to be spoken about, like when you grow up in the mountains and just how you have almost like a different understanding of it, like different like, I suppose, like I came from florida, right, so my view on it is completely different than people that grow up at the mountains, or my, at least the way I approach it, right, like mine has always been more fitness first approach, and then, the more time I've spent in the mountains, it's you know, it starts to grow on you and you're like, oh, this, this would be a fun objective, or that would be a fun objective.
Speaker 1:And I think the interesting thing is, though, as the sport grows and evolves, I'm seeing more athletes kind of make livings and you can now which is crazy to be able to both race you can race but also do fkt objectives and do exciting things in the mountains, like I see people that are able and I think those are the most ha, the happiest athletes when you're able to kind of blend your loves of the things you do. You're not necessarily just pushed to go do this race because it's a utmb race, right. Or you're pushed to go do this objective because that's what your sponsor wants you to do. It's more so. This is one thing I actually really liked about sportiva is like there's a little bit more. I mean, for me it's freedom because they're sponsoring the races that I want to go do, so it's kind of great. But like also there is a little bit more freedom there of to go do certain things that it that maybe other athletes don't have the ability to go do it, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I would. I I would love like I'm very competitive and I love competing, so I see myself doing like a lot of races and I'm still going to try and compete at a high level. But yeah, like you said, I also want to do other objectives and I feel like, since this is the first year in a while that I've had like an open year injury free, it's kind of like a blank slate and I feel like I have to do everything this year, but I'm like I have so many years ahead of me. It's like kind of just fun to like dream and scheme of races I want to do and objectives I want to do.
Speaker 1:Um, you're in your late twenties, right? You have like so much time. I turned 30 next week, all right? Well, happy birthday, happy birthday.
Speaker 1:This will come out I'll bring this out next week. Happy birthday to you. Um dude, I'm like 34. I should have brought my cane with me to this, to this interview, I feel. No, I talked to some although I will say like I talked to friends with some athletes that are like in their 40s now and like they're still awesome at like what they do. So I'm like there is hope, like I don't have to do it super old and just be that like old guy that is on the trails. You know you could still move fast.
Speaker 2:It's weird which is the best thing about this sport? Like the women's podiums are like 30s, late 30s, and I'm like it's so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. And some people don't like get really good into the stories, like they just are able to develop their systems and just improve, which is kind of crazy. But yeah, I want to unpack a little bit about. You said I'm very competitive. I want to understand more, like what that means to you and like how that. Like I asked everybody this question, like what does competition mean to you? Like how is that to you? Because some people are not super competitive, and then I meet people that are psychos, so like where do you fall on that Like spectrum?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I I feel like kind of in the middle I'm. I I'm definitely a competitive person, but I'm not like, I'm not like super type, a super competitive, a little bit back. But I really like racing and I really like competition. Um, I feel like it's a good arena for me to like try really hard and perform my best, and I really like that, um, because a lot of my training and running is like easy running, um, which I absolutely love, but I love trying really hard against like other people that are also trying really hard and performing really well, um, so I really like that environment it is.
Speaker 2:I've noticed, like, the more I do races, it gets it's like hard to be in that environment, though, because I get really nervous, um, because I do really want to do well and I have high expectations for myself, um, but it's, I can only do it so much because it's it. It does take a lot out of me because I get really nervous, um, and competing is really hard because it puts you in an uncomfortable position. I've noticed in a few races, which maybe takes me back a notch in my competitiveness is if, like, people pass me and I feel like I'm working pretty hard, sometimes I'll let them go. So I'm like, oh well, I guess it's just not my day. I'll try again next time. So sometimes my competitive juices like run out, I guess.
Speaker 2:But with me being a competitive person, like I always wanted to win track meets and like be the best of my soccer team, and even now like I really want to win races and do really well. But I'm not too hard on myself. If, like I don't, I'm like, as long as I gave my best for the day, um, I'm okay with that. So I guess I'm in between. On competitiveness, but yeah, when I said I'm competitive, I do really like to compete, but I don't go like crazy with it.
Speaker 1:You're not a psycho. Yeah, not a psycho. It's funny I. Who was I talking? I? So I was talking to somebody and they were talking about their friend who I've had on the podcast, who is like he'll like lock himself in a room and then come out when he's ready to like destroy you. Like that's how some people are, like there's some really interesting people in our sport that are just on another level of competitiveness. I think you're in a very healthy place.
Speaker 2:I can definitely say and I used to not be I feel like in high school and early college I was very type A, very competitive, very perfectionist, and then I kind of feel like the pendulum swung a little bit. Maybe once I got more into trail running I'm very, very, not type A anymore, much more laid back, less competitive, which leads me to be like a healthier, more well-rounded athlete. But I've been on both sides of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this about the sport I don't think I've ever asked somebody this. I've just been pondering it myself about why I got into the sport. But what is it about the sport that like attracted you, that like you find interesting, is it? Is it the distances? Is it? I mean, there's something weird about trail running that we all like it, right, like what is it? I can't quite put my finger on it sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I feel like it allows me to like go to cool places Like trails are way cooler than like neighborhood roads. Like you can get out into nature. Um, most of the time I don't listen to music, so it's just like really me time. Um, I love the way I feel after.
Speaker 2:Um, my relationship with running has morphed a lot over the years. It definitely started as like a forced thing to like exercise and to change my body and it was like not coming from a good place, but then I feel like the more I ran on trails and went to places that I wanted to and did things that inspired me like, my relationship with running changed. Um, that's been like many, many, many years, but I really like, honestly, the places it takes me, the community that it's allowed me to build, um just like the daily routine that it creates for me. I really like that a lot. Um, it is weird, though, because people are like why do you like running? Like it's painful, it's hard, and the more you do it, the just more part of your life it becomes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and I lived in. I lived in wisconsin for a couple years doing school there, and so I did a lot of road stuff and I like trained for a road marathon and I was just like running a lot of pavement. I was like I'm not like I really like running and I thought I liked running to run. I was like I'm not enjoying most of this training because it was just like following a training block and running on the roads. And then I got back to the trails and I'm like, oh, I like I like running because I can be on trails, not because I like running, I guess.
Speaker 1:It's, it's the best sport on earth. Like I have to be honest, like I haven't found anything else that I like, really, really like love. Like you came from soccer, I came from soccer, I came from soccer too, and I don't know, maybe soccer is just such an advanced sport, with Olympic development and just the fact that there's so much professionalization to it that it's like, unless you're the 1% of the 1% of the 1% for a competitive person, sometimes that can be hard, because to get to that Olympic level or to get to that professional level it's like so hard. Um, whereas, like I don't know, I feel like trail running has, just because it's still growing, just has more approachability, even though like, and the professionalization is growing as well. Um, yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this, but like it's the best sport on earth.
Speaker 2:Could not agree more. Yeah, and there's like part of the reason like this year's been hard for me to like decide what I want to do. I'm like there's so many races, so many events that you could do. It's like you can really do whatever you want, wherever you want, and I mean it is accessible. You just run. I mean I'm also I tease people. I'm like I run because I'm lazy, because I don't like a lot of gear, I don't like a lot of effort, like I don't ski anymore because there was too much gear, like too many people, too much time to get to the resorts and the trailheads and stuff. I'm like I just run because I'm lazy. I can do it whenever I want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you live in a place like the front range is just like the best, the like, cause we don't really get crazy weather I mean more or less but like you can just about hop on, throw on a pair of shoes and hop on a trail or a road at any point in time in the year and like you could go do that, like there's not a lot of barriers to entry, which is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is amazing.
Speaker 1:So one of the things you'd said to me as well was, like you had mentioned the commercialization of the sport. I'm curious to get your take on that Like what's your? Like what's your. I guess I'm so curious always to hear, like, what people think. Like you know, I love the fact that, like our sport still has like this beautiful grassroots dynamic to it, but yet there's also still this like strong professionalization growing, like I feel like both things can exist.
Speaker 2:I'm curious to get your take on, like what you think of, like how the sport's changing. Yeah, um, I definitely see pros and cons to it. I so, like, compared to the OG ultra runners, I'm very, very new, uh, but I've been trail running like this year. A lot of people have said to me like, oh, like you're brand new to the sport. I'm like I've been running for like seven, eight years like trail running. I'm like I don't feel like I'm that new to the sport, but it's changed quite a bit, even over like the past year.
Speaker 2:Um, and I've always, I always thought it would be so much like media around it, which I which I do think is I do think it's cool and it's making it a lot more accessible to people and people are hearing about the sport more and the names.
Speaker 2:Um, I just I kind of liked the undergroundness of being like a trail and ultra runner and going to kind of whatever races you wanted.
Speaker 2:But now I feel like like a few years ago I did quad rock 50 miler and like I wouldn't do that now because it doesn't do anything for me and it wouldn't qualify me for anything.
Speaker 2:It'd just be a race that I want to do and I feel like those kind of fun races that I've wanted to do I might not consider anymore like depending on my goals of the sport. But I kind of feel races that I've wanted to do I might not consider anymore like depending on my goals of the sport, but I kind of feel like it's directing people in a certain way, based off of qualifying for different things and going to races that have a lot of media coverage, and like I find myself going down that direction too, like I want to run CCC next year, so I'm going to do these certain races and it's taking me away from races that are like that I really want to run or that are inspiring to me, um, and I think being in boulder too, since it's like it's an intense place to live and it's very running central, um.
Speaker 2:I think things are a little bit more blown up here, but it's kind of been getting to me the past like couple months, just making me feel a little bit burnt out. I want to go do some long trail somewhere and escape from all the running talk. I think it's just because I live here, but I think it's cool With the different podcasts and what Dylan's doing doing. I do think it's really cool, um, and it's exciting to follow um. But yeah, I do notice it impacting my, like, race choices and kind of making me maybe be like I don't know if I want to pursue this, like I kind of just want to do what I want to do. So I don't, I don't know. I have a lot of thoughts on that but I don't really know.
Speaker 1:I from a media person but who's also an athlete.
Speaker 1:I couldn couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 1:Like I'm one of those people that like and this is going to be strange I don't think I've ever even said much of this on the podcast, but I don't actually follow a ton of like media outside of.
Speaker 1:Like, yes, I follow my own, obviously, my own stuff that I put out there, because, like, no one really talks about sub ultra. But like I'll be, I'll take like a month off, right. And like I just won't consume any running media because it does burn you out when there's too much of it, especially as, being an athlete in the sport, it almost gives me like a low level of anxiety, cause it makes I mean especially for me in in media too like I'm like, oh, I'm not doing enough, right, or I have to do more, I have to put more coverage out there, or I have to get more. And then me as the athlete, that's like, oh, dude, like I also have to do more because I want to you know, you want to be, you know perform at the highest level you possibly can. So like I'll go months at a time where I just like don't even listen to anything, which is kind of weird coming from a media person.
Speaker 2:But sometimes you got to do it, it, you know and I feel like it leads to at least for me it's led to like some pretty high highs and like some pretty low lows. I feel like from even leading up to black canyon I had this foot pain so I didn't even think I was going to be able to start because I didn't run at all during my taper. I haven't really told anyone that. And then my my friend would. She sent me. She's like finn, talked about you as like the dark horse, and I got like really depressed Cause I was like people are talking about me now I can't even line up at the race. Um, and then I didn't do well and I'm like no one's ever going to talk about me again. Um, and then I and leading up to the race too, I was like I'm not going to listen to any blockchain and previews. I don't want to know who's running the race, but it's just like everywhere.
Speaker 1:No, I really agree with you. I mean, I have to be honest with you even like certain things give me like a low level, just like as a competitor and as someone that wants to win and do the best to their ability. Like, yeah, what is that, I don't know. I almost feel like, sorry, there's a lot of thoughts coming here, cause, like this is the first time I've kind of talked about some of this stuff, but I almost feel like as an athlete, leading up to that, you have to like completely tune out all media because like, like, for instance, like, let's say, you go do broken arrow, more than likely I'm going to be reaching out to you two weeks before the race to do a pre-race interview, asking you like how your builds go and all these other things you probably don't want to talk about, which is fine.
Speaker 1:Some people turn me down, some people don't. Grayson turn down the We'll talk about that later Cause we got to get her on. But anyway, like it's a weird thing, cause, like some people like it, some people want to be on and I think they want that notoriety, but other people it's like no, I don't really want to. Like that effect kind of almost gets in your head and it kind of affects your game going into the race Right.
Speaker 2:And I think it depends too, like someone who's had a lot more results like ups and downs, like for me, I feel like my like, even after like a basin and javelina and going into black canyon, like the first time that like maybe I was on people's radars. And then dylan, like his pre-race show, I was in his fantasy free trail and I was like, oh my gosh, so what? Um, which was like really exciting. But then I mean you pressure, it is pressure, and then you feel like extra you, I guess if the race doesn't go well, you feel extra, like you've let people down. But I think it just comes with like experience and more results behind you that it's like maybe becomes more like you can handle it better. Um, and I was really excited. I was like people are talking about me and I was like, ooh, it's actually kind of kind of challenging and I don't want to hear any of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy Cause, like the sport is going that direction, like where I mean any big race, people are in like, yeah, there's going to be, whether it's free trail, whether it's single track, it doesn't matter. Like they all do. Like there's tons of coverage now and then the live streams. The live streams are so weird Cause it's like what happens if you got to go to the bathroom and you pop into the bushes and like there's a drone. Like what are you? Like looking around, like what does that even work?
Speaker 2:Like I thought that at Black Canin there was a drone that was like I really like.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's watching me, but I really have to go to the bathroom. That did cross my mind. Like I don't know, I'm not such a big fan of the drones right now, I don't I like or like that. Like I guess the live streams are awesome because that grows the sport in one direction where people can go, I guess, watch it from that way and it grows the races and more people come and yada, yada, yada. But it is weird being an athlete, because those things cross my mind. It's like I don't, you know, I don't want to be watched by a drone. This is weird. All right, so I do want to double back and thanks for being candid about that, cause like some people get kind of cagey and they don't like answering those questions. But like I do want to double back to FKTs and maybe maybe give us give me some insight and some stuff you might be interested in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, coming from Salt Lake, so it's been on my bucket list for six years to do the whirl, but I keep. So I've pieced it all together. I've like set dates that I'm going to do it. People are like you should do this. You're really good at scrambling, but I've had like a couple incidences that I've like gotten in my head with like rocks, and I've had like a couple of incidences that I've like gotten in my head with like rocks, so, or, and I gotten like a really bad headspace or I just like didn't do it. So I really have no excuse, but that's something I really really want to do. Um, and now, having moved out of Salt Lake, I'm like newly inspired to do it. Uh, so that's like my number one bucket list thing. This year. I want to go for the FKT on the world. Um, that's like my number one bucket list thing this year I want to go for the fkt on the world.
Speaker 2:Um, that's something people are like, that's like a thing of the past, but I'm like it has so much meaning to me because I've been wanting to do it for so long and I just haven't um, so I'm gonna do that eventually, maybe like a two to three year goal. I want to try the la freeway. I think that would be really cool. Um, I think long's peak would be cool, now that it's basically my backyard. Yeah, I did it. That's actually the only 14 I've ever done. I did it when I moved here and I was like I just wanted to go do it, to do it and I was like talking to people on the way and I came. Once I came down, I was like I was like minutes off the fkt. I was like I think I can get that um, so that would be a cool one to try. Um, those are kind of I mean the world and the la freeware, the two that I would love to to try.
Speaker 1:Uh some seriously long days out.
Speaker 2:That's impressive last year I did uh, I did the potty buchanan. I did that the first time. I got stopped by a moose and they added like 15 minutes and I was like dang it, you can't, you can't add time to when I'm trying to get an FBT. But I ended up getting that in October and that was like this is so fun the Indian peaks are like, so slept.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't say this on the podcast Cause I don't want people to go like over overly go to. I thought the Indian peaks are some of the most beautiful peaks in Colorado.
Speaker 2:Like so aesthetic, yeah, that's pretty much. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, some of my friends were like why aren't you going to like Leadville or Buena Vista and doing like 14 years? I was like the Indian peaks are new to me and it's like a playground in my backyard. That's way more technical, yeah.
Speaker 1:Way more engaging and like there's like what is it, what was it? Lone Eagle peak, that is another one. That's like sick, there's like a crazy, like fourth class, uh like climb on it. Like I think that there's a, like I think there's a, but like that's another one. There's some like really good, like technical stuff back there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So many, yeah, so many like fifth class ridges and stuff that it's just. That's the kind of stuff I love, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's interesting. So do you do a lot of?
Speaker 2:no-transcript. Like I think we did like 13 different things and then johnny takes me up a bunch of them because he's like expert scrambler. So he's been been like a flat iron tour guide. I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable now on a few of them by myself, but mostly I like going with people because you need to make sure you know which way you're going. But yeah, I love scrambling the flat irons.
Speaker 1:Have you ever considered I asked like every like really strong woman that comes on this podcast Like, have you ever considered the grand? Maybe Was that something that might pique your interest, because there's like a strong fifth class component. There's a lot of exposure. It's gnarly, it's technical Brout finding is a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've never really thought about it. I haven't really spent I've barely spent any time in the Tetons, so it's not really crossed my mind. I think it could be something maybe I could do, but it hasn't really crossed my mind. Um, I think it could be something maybe I could do, but it hasn't really crossed my mind. I thought about doing the picnic. That kind of seems cool picnic seems dope. Yeah, I agree, yeah but I don't know, I haven't really thought about that interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to hit up flannery davis love and she's. I just had her on the pod, you, she. You competed with her maybe once, maybe more than once. I know I know a Cirque series aviation. She has the FKT on longs and I just feel like that you're you guys are like similar types of athletes would be. That's a. It's a good person to train with there. Yeah, interesting, interesting. All right, so we've done about an hour. Now I want to start getting into some ending questions.
Speaker 2:I'm very curious to see who inspires you. Yes, this one probably doesn't take much explanation, but I will say courtney de walter has always been my inspiration. Um, she's honestly probably my number one, which kind of is lame, but that's okay. She's everyone's inspiration for good reason. Uh, being in boulder, I'll say too, just with, like the mountainy stuff, anton, he's an inspiration to me. Um, I feel like a blend of the two of those two would be cool those are, yeah, no, two solid people to look up to.
Speaker 1:Anton's.
Speaker 2:An interesting guy, very interesting I only know from, from afar. I've never met him, actually, but I don't know he's. He does the cool stuff. And then, honestly, one of my closest friends his name's Dave Burleson. He's very like rooted in the outdoor community. He's like worked his way up super successful.
Speaker 2:I would say he's one of my closest friends and he's always been like from day one. He's like I think he'd be a really good runner and he always like encouraged me and believed in me from like everything I did running, whether I was injured or not. He's like you should put more effort into this and he's just given me so many opportunities and like always believed in me. And he like is such a passion chaser and just like the way he uplifts people and the way he's like helped me develop into a runner and like truly believe in myself. I feel like I believe in myself because he's believed in me a lot, um, but it's just like the way he inspires me to be my best makes him like I would say, yeah, one of my biggest, biggest inspirations, just like a good friend.
Speaker 1:I think it's a beautiful answer. I want to pivot a little bit. I haven't, like I said something I meant to ask you earlier. You're really good at high altitude stuff. Like do you just like, how do you do that? Like, are you just like genetically like really good at like high altitude, Like how did that come about?
Speaker 2:My, I am, I do really well altitude. I've never had issues with it at all. Um, last summer I did the Silverton Alpine marathon. It's like a fun race and that was like 30, pretty much all 12 to 13,000 feet and it felt like so good and I was like I love this stuff. Um, my coach said that recently too. He's like you should focus on high altitude stuff. I was even considering, still kind of am Leadville. I don't know, though. That's a long way to go, but I yeah, I think it might be a genetic thing. I mean, I've always lived at high-ish altitude places like Salt Lake's at 5,000. Right now I'm at 8,500. But, yeah, I don't know how I do well at it, I just do.
Speaker 1:What about pikes? Any interest in maybe doing like the Pikes Peak Marathon or Ascent?
Speaker 2:That's crossed my mind too. There's like too many races out there that I want to do, but that, yeah, I was considering it last year and then didn't end up doing it, but that one's appealing to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. It's just like interesting's so painful. All right. So I know you said you don't listen to a lot of music, but I am curious what's your pump up song Before a hard race, before a hard effort? What are you listening to?
Speaker 2:So I don't listen to a ton of music running. I go through phases, but I am a big music person and I have unique music taste. I would say right now I'm split between like I like hip hop, but I also really like, like soft EDM, and I I go through phases where I'll like find songs that I'm obsessed with and I just even if they're not hype, pump up music, I'll just like listen to them over and over. So right now I've been listening to a lot of. I don't know if anyone's heard of them I don't even. I don't know it's called Linic. I don't know if they're like a DJ or what, but they have. Their newest song is called Maze of Memories and that's been my pre-run song for the past. I would say two weeks. I'm obsessed with it.
Speaker 1:Is it like deep house or electro Like? What is it like as far as like EDM? I know my EDM, so that's why I asked.
Speaker 2:I don't really. I played it to my friend at work and he's like are you, do you like go to raves, are you a raver? And I'm like, no, it's not like deep. You should give it a listen and let me know what. What was it called again?
Speaker 1:I'm going to literally type it into my phone right now.
Speaker 2:So the artist is Linux L Y N N I C. It's called maze of memories. All their music sounds exactly the same, but like every time I listened to it, I'll get like a runner's high, so maybe it'll work for you too.
Speaker 1:I'll put it on the. I'll put it on the. I'll put it on the playlist for sure. Sure, Okay, appreciate the recommendation. I don't get too many people that like EDM drives me crazy, like I've had like people like, say, country, and all kinds of random shit, and like nobody says EDM, like what's wrong with these people?
Speaker 2:I listened. I've listened to a bunch of your podcasts and so I kind of knew this question or something I was like I can make something up, but I was like, I'll tell you what I really was too.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that it's authentic. There you go. I like I said I'm, I, I'm all over the place, like sometimes it's like classic rock and then a lot of times CDM hip hop's great, like I, yeah, it's anything but like country. I don't know Country.
Speaker 2:Same, exact same answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not doing it for me. You kind of mentioned you have a really cool job like as a dietitian, like you kind of mentioned that in the beginning. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like that's one thing I wanted to like dive a little bit more into, just because it's like I don't know. I feel like it's a really important like aspect as a runner as well, right, yeah, and exciting things with that too.
Speaker 2:So I, when I was in Salt Lake, I worked as a clinical dietician, so I was in a hospital doing a lot of like outpatient work. It was a VA hospital, so vastly different population from who I would want to work with, which is I mean. It was really good experience. But now I'm moving. When I was moved to Boulder I was working for a private practice doing endurance sports mostly triathletes, but exciting news and I asked him if I could share this.
Speaker 1:I just got brought on as the associate with Vic Johnson, mountain sports dietitian.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm super excited with that. He's going to be like mentoring me and giving me clients in that role, because we're both dietitians Um, cause I'm and I'm, I'm doing some of my own stuff too, like I'm teaching some classes and, um, working one-on-one with just like my own thing too, but now partnering with him will be exciting stuff coming. So I'm really excited about that. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's my side thing.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. I mean Vic Johnson's like. I mean I'd say as far as like dieticians, like he's the biggest name in our sport right now. As far as like that side, like he's helped. I mean you can credit so many athletes breakthroughs with you know what he's done, which is absolutely incredible. I mean, like Rod Farvard probably doesn't have the performances he has if it's not for Vic, kind of like teaching him and helping him like make adjustments, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:So it's crazy how much at this level, like the sport, is fueling. Pretty much like you have to know what you're doing fueling, otherwise you're not, you don't stand a chance like these days yeah, yeah, it's, it's wild.
Speaker 1:I mean, dude, just like carbs. Like I started eating more carbs, I started getting faster. I was like this is amazing I got.
Speaker 2:I got on a call with Vic the day after Black Canin. I was like what the heck just happened? I need your help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like a miracle worker. That's awesome. Yeah, that's super cool. All right, so I got a silly question for you. I've been on a Bigfoot rant lately, so I think I'm going to get away from Bigfoot. So I think I'm going to get away from Bigfoot. What's your take on the aliens?
Speaker 2:Do you believe in aliens? I do, definitely. Yeah. They're here watching us. They're smarter than us.
Speaker 1:You think so? Yeah, oh, wow, that's deep. Do you believe we're in a simulation?
Speaker 2:It's crossed my mind. I don't think I do, though I don't think I do at this point interesting, I know these are. I haven't thought too much about those questions, but I definitely believe in aliens you know you can learn a lot about someone.
Speaker 1:Uh, if you ask them like, do they believe in bigfoot, do they believe in aliens? Like it's very interesting to hear the way people think. Dude, I've had people that are like super buttoned up, like start opening up about like conspiracy theories and stuff and I'm like, wow, I never would have thought like you would have been somebody to bring that up. That's really interesting. So I appreciate, I appreciate your take on that. I believe in aliens too, so yeah yeah, I think they're out there now definitely there's just no way.
Speaker 1:They're not yeah, yeah, watching us. I think you're right. I think we're like kind like a it's kind of crazy to think, but like maybe like a science experiment in a little ways, and they're like just keep an eye, see what these crazy people, crazy humans are up to. Yeah, I think it could be Well. Jane, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was an amazing conversation. Yeah, I can't wait to do round two. I'm wishing you the best of luck in your 2025 season. Can? I'm wishing you the best of luck in your 2025 season.
Speaker 2:Can't wait to see what you have stored for the rest of the year. Thank you so much. Yeah, I don't really know what's in store either, so we'll see where you see me.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Yeah, I was going to say I'll definitely see you at a race for sure. Or a sportiva group run, it doesn't matter One of these days.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, absolutely, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what an awesome episode. I want to thank Jane so much for coming on the podcast. It was great to get to finally tell her story, learn more about her um, and just talk just shoot the shit. Like I said, it was a super fun conversation and I can't wait for round two, uh many more to come on on that front. Lots of discussions Uh, I really like, uh, the dietitian discussion.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot of uh information to be learned there and just some good stuff all around. So, guys, before you get going, hop on Instagram and give Jane a follow. You can find her at underscore J-A-N-E-M-A-U-S underscore. Hop on there, give her a follow, let her know what you guys thought about the episode and send her some positive words. I think she would really take a lot away. I'm so excited for what Jane's going to do in 2025. I know she's still kind of trying to figure out that um, that calendar, uh. So, brandon Madigan, if you're listening to this which I'm pretty sure you are uh, let's get Jane in the broken arrow 46 K so she can throw down against some other incredibly talented ladies. I think that would be a pretty fun race for her to do the summer, not to uh, you know not to type up the sub ultra scene too much, but, hey, you know, love to see that happen. Let's pull her away from from ultra. Yeah, um, guys, very, last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcast. I would really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:And then, very last, very, very, very last but not least, I'm sure you heard the ad in the beginning of the episode, but I am so stoked because ultimate direction just dropped their new race vest and ultra vest. That is, a six liter race vest and a 12 liter ultra vest. Guys, the aesthetic colorways of these are so beautiful. Um, this beautiful onyx and green, as well as the white, uh, and like a blue liner, um, I just love the design of these. I think they knocked them out of the park. And then the fact that it's a dynamic, stretchy material. It's not a very static vest, it's very dynamic. It feels more like your Solomon vest or something like that. It completely redefines the vest that ultimate direction has made in the past. No mesh, it's a completely different type of product.
Speaker 1:I think if you guys are to get your hands on these. I think you're going to absolutely love them. I've been playing around in both the ultra and the race fest for the last few months. Um, lots of photos taken in them. Lots of good stuff there. They're very durable. Um, yeah, I don't want to go for the hard sell too much. You guys check them out for yourself. But, like I said, I think it's definitely something as you start to plan your racing calendar. Um, gear is very important and I think this is something you're going to really enjoy for the summer of 2025 and beyond. So, use code steep stuff pod Again, that's steep stuff pod and get 25% off your vest. That's as good as it gets. Guys, have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much. I've got a very special podcast coming out this weekend with Ricky Gates. Yeah, that one's one you're not going to want to miss, so take care, thank you.
