The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#78 - Rickey Gates
Mountains aren't just for conquering—they're for conversations and connections. In this deeply personal episode, trail running legend Rickey Gates opens up about his journey from competitive racer to what he calls a "conceptual runner," someone who approaches running as a form of artistic expression rather than pure athletic pursuit.
Rickey takes us back to his early days in Aspen, Colorado, where high school cross country ignited his passion for trail running. We follow his path from winning local races to representing the US Mountain Running Team to becoming a cornerstone athlete on the Salomon team during the explosive growth years of trail running. His collaborations with filmmaker Dean Leslie produced some of the most influential running films of the last decade, inspiring countless newcomers to the sport.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Rickey shares rare insights about racing against Kilian Jornet at Mount Marathon—his all-time favorite race—describing what it's truly like to compete against someone widely considered the greatest mountain runner ever. "There's a drive in him that can't really be learned or faked," Rickey explains, offering a glimpse into Jornet's extraordinary competitive spirit while also emphasizing his genuine kindness.
Perhaps most compelling is Rickey's candid discussion about stepping away from competition after 15 years to pursue more creative running projects. From running across America to his "Every Single Street" projects and his current work on "50 Classic Trails of America," Rickey has redefined success on his own terms. Now at 43, balancing fatherhood with guiding running trips and creative work, he reflects on finding fulfillment through exploration rather than race results.
Whether you're chasing podiums or simply seeking connection through movement, Rickey's thoughtful perspective reminds us that sometimes the most meaningful paths emerge when we question conventional definitions of success and follow our authentic curiosities instead.
Follow Rickey on IG - @rickeygates
Check out Rickey's Website - @rickeygates
Check out Rickey's 50 Classic Trails Project - @50ClassicTrails
Sign up for Rickey's Santa Fe Fastpack ! This May 26th - 30th 2025
Sign up for Rickey's Bus Run Bus San Fran to Seattle ! This June 28th - July 5th, 2025 @busrunbus
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode with one of the legends of our sport, someone who I have deeply admired for many years and one of the first people that I kind of found and stumbled upon when I first entered the sport and started watching things like Solomon TV and other outlets on YouTube. I want to introduce Ricky Gates. Ricky Gates is the conceptual runner, more of a mountain artist than he is maybe an athlete. He's just an interesting character, one of the most different people I've ever had on the podcast. Ricky is truly an authentic human and someone that is just different, so I really appreciated his time. It was so fun to have a conversation and just kind of catch up and see what he's been up to and where he's going now in life. He's working on a really amazing book right now that I don't want to give too much away in, so you have to learn more about it. In the episode we did talk about his Transamerica effort, we talked about Mount Marathon, we talked about some of his racing and if he would ever return to certain races, what types of races inspire him, and so much more. Like I said, this was a really special episode for me. Um, they say never meet your heroes, but man did, ricky deliver. Um, yeah, just a amazing human and someone I hope to have more conversations with in the future. So, without further ado, ado, none other than Mr Ricky Gates.
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Speaker 1:Hop on ultimate directioncom. Right now. Use code steep stuff pod for 25% off your cart. Again, like I said, use code steep stuff pod. Treat yourself to one of these. I think you guys are going to love them. I'd love to hear your feedback. Let me know what you think. Enjoy, ricky Gates. Welcome to the steep stuff podcast. How are you doing today? Doing? Great Thanks for having me on, james. Yeah, man, I have to be honest with you, I was a little bit nervous for this one. I don't normally get nervous for conversations, but for those who don't know, dude, I'm a giant fan of yours. I came into the sport maybe five years ago and I grew up on this Solomon TV and all of these YouTube shorts. When I first got into the sport and a lot of the episodes predominantly the Mount Marathon and Transamerica had you. So it's a little weird to be sitting in front of you and having a conversation. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So I definitely appreciate you taking the time out of your day to chat man.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for saying and, yeah, I'm psyched to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So let's dive in One of the things. The first question I probably had for you is related to your Instagram bio. You would refer to yourself as a conceptual runner. Maybe kind of break that down for me and like what you mean by that conceptual wonder. Like, how do you define that?
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 2:So a friend of mine, uh, an artist, life, lifelong artist, he uh, I know him because my wife went to school, uh, to art school out in Rhode Island and um with uh, dating her and then marrying her.
Speaker 2:I accumulated a lot of artist friends and um, I've had a lot of conversations with him over the years and um, and just kind of like what it is that I'm doing, uh, obviously, what it is that he's doing, um, and he, he was the first one that kind of started to get me to think about, uh, the, the runs that I do as artwork, uh, as opposed to, you know, just like this physical challenge, um, and so, uh, and he's the one that coined that term for me, which I really appreciated and and uh, I liked it in my bio it just, it feels a bit more uh, comprehensive than than, you know, athlete, um, or, you know, racer or runner, um, you know, it's for me it's a way of expressing that this form of movement that I do is meant to, um, get at something more than just uh one foot after the other, and meant to more than just to push myself. It's. It's about, uh, figuring out bigger, bigger uh questions that we have about life and our place here.
Speaker 1:I mean in two words, I think it's a beautiful description for all of these things. So it's pretty cool. I appreciate the breakdown To get to the audience for those who I would be very surprised if anyone doesn't know who you are. But just to give me a little brief synopsis, just a little five-minute breakdown on your background, and we'll kind of go from there on how you got into the sport, where you grew up, things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so got into the sport.
Speaker 2:I'm from Aspen, colorado. A lot of people know about the town. It's famous for skiing and jet setting Grateful to my parents for making that decision to raise a family there, despite you know the not having a million dollars in our bank account ever and just an immense amount of opportunities that I grew up with living in that town. So very first running race was when I was in like seventh or eighth grade. I ran a 5k tethered to four other friends. We wore backpacks and a climbing rope between us. We were doing it kind of as a fundraiser for the Aspen Alpine Club, which was a youth club that we were a part of and kept me busy during the summer times. Same friends One year later, most of them were on the cross-country team. I was on the soccer team and they just said hey, you know, it doesn't look like you're having a lot of fun on soccer and, by the way, on the soccer team and by the way, you're not very good at it, come over to the cross country team. And that's when I joined the cross country team freshman year in high school. So then kind of a typical few years with that, with that, really enjoyed it Uh super lucky to have a coach that uh moved to Aspen in part because he loved the trails there, um, and so we got out on the trails at least twice a week, but sometimes like three or four days a week, um, as part of our training, and then he would have, uh, you know, meetups through the summertime and we'd go run some of the most iconic trails in the Aspen area. So that's kind of what got me interested in trail running was high school and having a couple coaches that were equally as psyched about it.
Speaker 2:Went on to college, did one year at Lewis and Clark College in Portland Oregon, small private school, decided I wasn't ready for school yet, took two years off, traveled, went to CU Boulder. After that tried to make the cross country team. For three consecutive years. They had and I would assume still have a race at the beginning of the season, kind of a time trial, and if you ran that race and performed well you'd get a walk on spot on the team. And for three consecutive years I came up, you know, 20 to 30 seconds short on making that team. So my college running career was just the the freshman year at Lewis and Clark college, um, and then, kind of at the end of those three years of not making the team, I, you know, I had this fitness, um, I wanted to do something with that fitness, even though I wasn't uh going to be on the cross country team that fall.
Speaker 2:And? Uh, so I signed up for the? Uh imaging pass run in Southern Colorado. Uh, in the San Juan 17 mile point to point-to-point from Ouray to Telluride goes up and over Imogene Pass, 13,000 feet. And to my delight and surprise, I won the race.
Speaker 2:And if there's kind of like a few things in one's lifetime where they can kind of point to and say like that specific thing changed my life, um, without question, winning that race uh opened a lot of doors for me. I? Um met Buzz Burrell at that race. He's the one that told me about the U? S mountain running team um and told me I should go out to Mount Washington the following spring and try and make that team, which I did. I went out and came in third place at the Mount Washington race.
Speaker 2:Uh, so now we're going back to like I don't know if this is like 2005, um seems about, yeah, so 20 years ago, geez, um and uh. So I made the U? S mountain running team and we went to Turkey that year, um, and I just started learning more and more about kind of the international mountain running scene and learned that there were all these races in Europe, um, and kind of shorter races out there, uh, uphill. You know they're not the most glamorous races, they're not UTMB, um, nothing like that, but, um, I did learn that you could win, you know, a hundred to a few hundred Euro, uh, at each of these races and they'd oftentimes put you up in in a hostel or a hotel if you were a foreigner and they wanted you on the starting line. So I went over to Europe for the next three years, uh, for three to six months, uh, just doing trying to find a race every single weekend, um, and for me it was like I wasn't making a ton of money but I was at least breaking even and my flight over to Europe was paid for from, you know, being on the U S mountain running team and it was just a super cool way to to travel around. Um, sorry, this is a little long-winded. Yeah, it's kind of fun for me to go like, why am I here right now? Let's, uh, I'm going to continue down this, uh down this thread.
Speaker 2:So, um, it was during that time that I got picked up on the by the solomon team. Uh, adam chase, in boulder, colorado, he got put in charge of the team. He was a friend of mine and asked if I wanted to join it, and so that was, you know, for the first year or two. It was a few pairs of free shoes a year. And then they started the international team and Adam asked if I wanted to go over to France and be a part of that. And yeah, just looking back on that, the very first international team was like me and Killian Jornet and I think Ryan Sands was there and just like kind of a lot of these like what are becoming like old school guys in the sport, and we were all just in our mid twenties and this team that was putting, you know, frankly at the time, a lot of capital behind an international team, and so that being on that team just opened up a lot of doors. It was really wonderful.
Speaker 2:I raced all over the world with them and then one of the biggest things that ended up happening with them is my relationship with the what was originally the African attachment and then became the wandering fever, but primarily Dean Leslie, videographer, filmmaker, out of South Africa, and he got brought on to the team to make. He pitched some really cool video ideas the YouTube shorts that you're kind of referring to and he pitched some ideas to the guy that was in charge of the team and they started funding a lot of these story uh telling um projects of his and and he and I got along really well and and I had a lot of ideas. I just I loved traveling. I loved kind of like this, uh, um, yeah, this dive into the history of the sport uh, in a lot of different places around the world. Uh, so, like in the UK and the Fells, I loved the running scene there. You know, going over to Japan and meeting the marathon monks there.
Speaker 2:You know, mount Marathon, one that you had mentioned, just this race that had that has, at this point, 100 years of history history behind it. Um it just you, you bring together a brilliant videographer and some curiosity about the sport and uh, and you can make some really cool stuff. So, um, that relationship uh lasted for quite a while and and you know, I um it kind of finished with um telling them both, solomon and Dean, I want to do this huge project. I want to run across the country, can we make something out of it? And both sides all three sides agreed that we could and then, following that kind of trying to tell another story, running every street in San Francisco, which to me at the time was, you know, totally within my reach, I had just run across the country and so this was, like, you know, one quarter the length of that, and so it was pretty reasonable and so we told that story and so, yeah, that's kind of where I am today. I left the Solomon team after 13 or 14 years, about a year and a half ago, and joined the John G running team and that's been a great relationship.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, kind of a younger company based out of Boston they're about 10 years old make running apparel, but also put their efforts behind storytelling and things that aren't specifically race-based as well, like speed and performance-based, but more about what kind of stories and what kind of different people are out there. So that's 25 years, almost 30 years of running. In a nutshell, here I am today. I'm 43 years old, I'm in Santa Fe, new Mexico, I've got a wife and two kids, and I don't run every day. I run a few days a week. I have my every single street project that I do here, and I guide many running trips throughout the year, which is a fun way for me to um bring people into the sport or interact with people that are already in the sport, uh, in a different way. That's not uh focused around racing, um, and I'm working on a new project right now, which is super exciting, uh, called the 50 classic trails of America, and I'd love to talk more about that, uh, after I catch my breath right now.
Speaker 1:Ricky, thank you so much for that synopsis and breakdown. There's so much I mean I could literally do. I mean we'll keep this to an hour or so, but like I could literally sit here and talk to you for four hours just because I have so many questions. So we'll talk about the 50 classic trails. I do want to dive into that.
Speaker 1:One of the things, just starting from the beginning, I want to get into is I had asked a few friends before this conversation what is it Cause? You know, I don't know if you know, but you are so widely respected in this sport. Everybody looks up to you and really respects you. And so I asked a couple of friends before. I was like, well, is there anything you want to know about Ricky Gates? Like, what would you want to know? And I got so many questions about what was it like in those early years of joining the Solomon team? Like, was it life-changing for you? Like, did you at any point think in a million years, like I could make a career out of this, like this was something I could go do to go race around the world and kind of follow and pursue this? I know you kind of touched on it a little bit, but I think more so just the nitty gritty and more of the specifics around what those early years were like on the Solomon team and how that grew in front of your eyes years?
Speaker 2:um, have I uh woken up and been like, yeah, I, I just can't believe I'm doing this for a living. Like, um, I, yeah. In short, I never thought I'd still be doing this. I never thought that I would be doing it at all. Um, I've, I was never the fastest person on the running team, not in high school, uh, clearly not in college. Um, I wasn't the fastest person on the Solomon team. I had a few lucky breaks in there, like I won the Mount Washington race.
Speaker 2:Um, I won a couple of races in Europe over three years, um, europe over three years, um, but I don't I don't think any of my records stand. Um, yeah, I'm. I'm not going down in history as as, uh, as any sort of uh, you know, speed demon or anything. So, um, to be able to, at any point in during that time, be able to make a living out of it has just been the biggest blessing. And being on the Solomon team, you know with in those yeah With, with quite a few amazing people Killian, obviously and to be able to race him, you know, not just count them as a teammate, but to be in some similar races with him and to actually be pushing each other and to pull ahead of them. At times, I'm like this is fricking rad, like this is. Life doesn't get better than this.
Speaker 2:Um, I did like that's not what I dream about right now, but in my mid, late twenties, early thirties, um, but in my mid late twenties, early thirties, um, you know that that it was just awesome. Uh. Francois Courtney um, you know, the list goes on of these just amazing people that I've gotten to spend time with and call genuine friends and and uh, even after you know, killian's gone his own way and and I've gone my way, and you know to, to still have these people in my phone and call them up and and have conversations and you know, as friends and not as teammates, not as competitors, is is really wonderful, um. So, yeah, the early years in the Solomon team were super cool.
Speaker 2:Um, it just felt like, you know, they uh just really saw the potential of the sport early on and, like I handed to them, they put a lot of money behind and effort behind growing the sport. You know, whatever years you want to call that 2008, 2018 a solid decade there, um, and uh, I was just super psyched to be a part of it and have my plane tickets paid for and and go to new zealand and um, japan and um, you know, go to all these amazing places and uh, and and to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. To piggyback off that, are you surprised by how much the sport has grown in the amount of time that you've been in it?
Speaker 2:I guess. So, like I said, I grew up in Aspen, colorado, and it's a town that's changed a lot in my lifetime, and that's another thing. I'm using this as, yeah, comparison. People always ask like, oh, it's such a shame, what's happened to Aspen? You know what it's become. But, like, even at a young age, I saw the trajectory that that town was heading and I knew that it was, that it was going to change, it was going to continue to change. It's been on the same trajectory literally since they discovered silver, yeah, back in the late 1800s. And so, kind of seeing, with the sport, um, the, yeah, I, I feel like the sport has been on the same trajectory for a long time. Um, and so I I gotta say I'm not that surprised to see where it's at right now.
Speaker 2:I am, I guess, surprised to, yeah, there's, there's still some, some surprises there, like that I don't know, I mean, I look at the, the, the winners from some of these big races, and to not know most of the names there. And, and I don't think it's because I'm not doing my research, I think it's because I'm not doing my research, I think it's because there's so many people, there's so many fast people now that it's hard to keep up with, like who's running insanely fast right now. So so yeah, I guess I'm not too surprised. I'm psyched to see how it's changing. I think I've discussed what I discussed with my friends 10 years ago. You know, like when people with with legit speed uh, figure out how to run mountains, that's, that's when you know everything's going to get really fast. You know, I just consider myself lucky.
Speaker 2:You know, I, I, that I got into the sport when I did, cause I'm, you know, I, I've, I've got some okay times in in in my repertoire.
Speaker 2:You know, like low 15s in the 5k, but low 15s is is pedestrian pace compared to low 14s and upper 13s, which is what we're seeing in the in 5k times, uh, for athletes coming into mountain running now, um, and so, yeah, it was only a matter of time, it's, it's, it's a matter of, like, you know, the the sexiness of the sport and, uh, you know money, um, if, if, people can make money doing it.
Speaker 2:The reason I was able to make money doing it for so long is because I know how to live extremely frugally and, you know, for a lot of a few of those years I was living in a cabin, an off grid cabin on the backside of Flagstaff Mountain in Boulder, colorado, paying $125 a month rent. Other years there I was living in my van paying $0 rent and I was extremely happy during those times. But net, but people want to be able to, you know, pay actual rent and sleep in a real bed, and I think that's actually happening now with the sport. So, yeah, different, different players, yeah, more money coming in, a lot, lot more speed. Not that surprised at all.
Speaker 1:It's astonishing, just like the growth, both from the ultra running perspective and sub ultra, like the sub ultra races. I raced a handful of the Cirque series races last summer and I was astonished by some of these athletes like a good amount of them, like you said, sub 14 minute 5K guys, so many of them coming into the sport. So yeah, it is crazy to see the trajectory it's headed on. I get mixed, I have like some mixed emotions with it, just because I love the competition and I love how fast it's getting. I just wonder what the exponential growth looks like, um, from a dilution perspective, like is it's like a more UTMB? Or what are these races look like? Like how does what is? What does I guess the? How does it shape up to look um in the next few years, which is, you know, we'll see what happens there, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, I do want to circle back to a time of your life, um, and your relationship with Mount Marathon. There was a good handful of years where you went and raced Mount Marathon or somewhere in that range and I love that race. I can't wait to go race it this year, super excited to go out and kind of cover it and cover that area in Seward. Can you talk about just like what it was like going out there and racing Killian racing just a studly group of athletes as well and just like your relationship with that race in general over the years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, uh. It's a pretty easy answer when people ask me what my favorite race is Um, and it's hands down, it's Mount marathon. Mount marathon changed what I thought racing can and should be, um, and that it gets the respect that I think a lot of short races should have. Um, you know the race is under an hour. Um, it's, you know it's. It's something that captures people's attention from beginning to end, whether you're watching it on YouTube, on Twitter, whatever it's called now, um, or watching, watching it. If you're really lucky to be watching it in person and you know 45 minutes, it's like you can feel the adrenaline. You get goosebumps, whether you're doing the race or not. It is super exciting. I first knew about the race. I first knew about the race my mom. We had a? Uh, a framed article uh, with a photo in it of my mom doing the race in 1969. It was her second summer up in Alaska. She'd gone up there the first summer. Uh made decent money for you know, a traveling hippie uh doing working the canneries for six weeks during the salmon run, and so she was up there for a second summer in a row. The salmon hadn't started running yet. She was on the Kenai Peninsula and she just started asking around like what can I do until the salmon come in? It was looking like it was going to be a week or two and they're like go run this race in Seward. So 1969, the race was already at that point over 50 years old, close to 60 years old, so certainly a test for the local athletes. Not as many women, but there were women doing the race back then and my mom showed up and not only did she do the race but she was fed from the local restaurants for the entire week beforehand. Uh, just cause they appreciated, you know, an outsider coming in and actually training on on on the course. And, if you can imagine, like my mom's not a runner and her training for Mount marathon was to go up and down Mount marathon every day for the five or six days before the race, and so she was like perhaps a little bit fit for the race but also, I would imagine, really sore and tired as well. Uh, but they, she came in second out of two women.
Speaker 2:Um, ran an article just kind of going over the winners of the race and they found her story particularly interesting that she had hitchhiked from Long Island, new York, all the way up to Alaska and was doing the race and did pretty well, and so we had that article hanging on our wall growing up in, in just outside of Aspen, colorado, and and so I've uh, known about the race my entire life. Um, I, you know, started talking as I was doing these short races. I never considered myself like an up and down runner. Um, like my, my forte was running up the mountain and catching the tram down, which, like, to be honest, there's a lot of races like that and and it's great you don't destroy yourself, it's not like dangerous, you can run two races in a weekend and be totally fine. Um, but I just started getting, you know, more interested in running up and down mountains, more interested in running up and down mountains and uh, and so like kind of all um signs were pointing towards this race up in Alaska that, you know, no Europeans had heard about, most Americans hadn't heard about. I knew about because of my, my own personal story, because my mom's story, own personal story, because my mom's story. Um, and then, a completely separate story, I'd ridden my motorcycle from Colorado down to Argentina, uh, when I was in my early twenties and uh, I wanted to ride my motorcycle all the way up to Alaska and complete the two continents, and signs just pointed to Mount Marathon that year I had, so when I got there, I'd been on the road for like four weeks on my motorcycle, doing training as I could along the way, staying fit, and ran the race. I forget what year that was now, 2012 or 13 was my first time doing the race.
Speaker 2:Didn't know anybody on the starting line. I was the only guy on the starting line wearing a shirt and ended up just having like I like, and still excelled immensely at going up that mountain, um, and I think we me and Eric Strable we chopped, I don't know um, a minute off of the ascent time, uh, back then for going up that mountain, um, and then just trying to keep up with him on the downhill, uh, just wasn't going to happen. He took off from me, um, but got to line and he had broken the record by I don't know 30 seconds and I was about 10 seconds behind him, so I had gone under the old record as well, and it was just super exciting like to be at that finish line and surrounded by those mountains, right on the ocean, um, and to have made like it's never happened in my life before where I've made that many close friends in one hour, I mean literally. He came up to me after the race. Eric Strable said, ricky, I'm getting married next year, I'd love, I'd love it If you, if you, came to my wedding and like, all right, I'll be here. I think he knew it was a way to get me back up to the race and do it again. And, um, so yeah, that was that's kind of uh, the start of the race. And for me, in a nutshell, um, so finished second that first year. Um, not as well the second year.
Speaker 2:Um, the solomon team going back to europe chatting with killian, chatting with some of the other teammates there, like this is a legit race. And because I knew killian, he'd been to some races in the states, uh, speed goat being one of them. Um, pike's peak, like he was just like disappointed with not the not I mean not the competition, but like just disappointed with the course. Like he didn't consider them real mountain races. You know, when you go switchbacking up up a trail like this, you're going with a manmade invention. This trail going up the mountain, it didn't feel like a real dance. Uh, between you know the athlete in the mountain. It felt like a dance between the athlete and the trail uh, that happens to go up a mountain. And so I told him about this race and he was genuinely psyched about it, he and and emily, um, and so I managed to convince them to come out and to convince Solomon to put some capital behind making a short film about it, and that's the Mount Marathon film that a lot of people have seen on YouTube.
Speaker 2:And then that race again was super exciting.
Speaker 2:It was me, killian, and Jim Shine, cruising to the top of the mountain and like I knew that if I had any chance at all at beating Killian that it was going to be on the uphill and like, honestly, I don't have a chance of beating Killian on the uphill either, but I did manage to get to the top of the mountain before him that day and then he managed to put an entire minute on me from the top of the mountain back to the finish line.
Speaker 2:But again, I think we, we both dipped under the record, um, and his record since been broken at least once by, uh, uh, david Norris, um, and perhaps someone else, I'm not sure. Um, but yeah, it's the coolest race. It's uh, it just makes, uh, a person think about a mountain completely differently. It's an open course, you can choose any route that you want. It's legit dangerous coming down that mountain. I mean, it's hard for me to even really fathom. 3,000 vertical feet in 10 minutes is the descent time, uh, for the winners of that race. So it's, it's exciting. It gives it gives me adrenaline right now just thinking about it. Um, but it it just helped me reimagine, uh, what running can and should be, at least for myself.
Speaker 1:Would you say that's your favorite race in the country or is that your favorite race in general, Like?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, hands down favorite race in the world for me. There's nothing that compares to it. Um, like, and yeah there's, I appreciate like how Alaskan it is. I mean, it's really wild. I just I think there's less lawyers in Alaska than there are elsewhere. Um, and my good friend, mattia Sari, is the uh is the race director for it now. So I I'm I'm constantly uh learning, you know who's who's going this year and what he thinks uh of who's going this year. So, yeah, it's a cool race. It's just, yeah, it feels like a home away from home for me.
Speaker 1:Do you think you'll ever go back? Yeah, I'll go back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure. Like, even with two second-place finishes, like I had no regrets with that race, like I've never regretted not winning the race, um, I just, I was always so psyched to have a spot on the stage and to be able to perform there. Um, yeah, like I said, it feels like a home away from home for me and I'd love to be able to. My mom was there one year, I think, for the race, um, and she watched it, um, and then, uh, yeah, I'd love to be able to, to show my wife and kids the race. Uh, maybe they'll do the junior race one of these years. Uh, so, yeah, we'll see one of these years. I'll head back.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't wait. I'm so excited I'm going to go out for probably my marathon this year and I think we might stay, travel around and and just explore and, um, probably stay to do uh, well, definitely stay to do Cirque series Aliaska, which is another like very inspiring course.
Speaker 2:This course looks amazing yeah totally, yeah, they've done a great job with that. And, um, yeah, like, if I were to come up, if you were to make me, you know, put down 10 of my favorite races in the United States, I'd say probably like seven of them are in Alaska. Yeah, like they just. Yeah, they have inspiring terrain. It's still pretty old school up there. I really think that they get away with things that, um, you can't get away with elsewhere. There's a race, uh, the Matanuska peak challenge, which I've done twice. Um, let's see if I can do the stats. It's like 12 miles with 9,000 feet of climbing. Wow, it's, it's essentially three Mount marathons back to back. You go up one mountain, down the backside and then up Matanuska peak and that's your turnaround, your six miles in and then down and then back up and down and it feels like what I mean, racing up and down the some of the really gnarly 14ers in Colorado. Um, so, yeah, just it's, it's just proper mountain running, um, in a, in a way that, uh, most people don't really understand.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I mean there was, um, I think his name was a David Kennedy or I think his last name is David Kennedy or yeah. Okay, David Kennedy is a Boulder guy, young Boulder kid. He might be like 20 something years old, like very young twenties. Um, I think he's a PhD student at UC Boulder or just graduated somewhere in that range, but he lives in Boulder.
Speaker 2:He went and won that this year I was really impressed, Like not Alaskan to go win that race. It was like, wow, he might be the only one I hadn't heard about that, but uh, yeah, that's impressive.
Speaker 1:I think he got himself. I think now, if you win, you get an entry. I believe he got an entry into Mount Marathon, if I remember correctly, so I think that's what he's racing for, so pretty cool.
Speaker 1:I want to talk to you a little bit about what it's like to race with Killian or race against Killian, just because, to the average person listening to this, people idolize Killian. They don't think of him almost as a human. He becomes like the superhero, right? And what is that like? Not just being friends with killian, but like racing against him, being a competitor against him? I know it's probably a difficult question to answer. It's just that for the average person listening to this, I think they would take a lot away from understanding that in some ways yeah, I mean, I, I still don't totally understand it myself.
Speaker 2:I've, I've raced him, I them, I've, uh, I've, I've beat them on a technicality uh, that's I by finishing four minutes behind them, but he was cutting all the switchbacks on the uh speed goat course so we got disqualified. Um, sorry about that. Um and uh, like I said, I was ahead of them at the top of Mount marathon, but that's not where the race ended. It ended at the bottom, um. And then, a couple of years ago, I paced a Francois through the night for hard rock 100 and uh, killian took off, um, you know, with about 12 miles left to go. And and uh, yeah, you, just there was. There was nothing Francois could have possibly have done to stick with him.
Speaker 2:Killian's one of the nicest people that I know. He's just generous with his time, with his words, but there's a part of him that is just like such a fierce competitor. Um. So, for those that don't know, he won hard rock a couple of years ago. Um broke the course record. Um, francois Dan, from France, came in second.
Speaker 2:The two of them had run, like I don't know, 88 miles of the race together, and when Killian took off with 12 miles to go. It was before the final aid station and it was clear that he, like that was, that was like the fighter in him. It was like, and that came about because Francois beat Killian in UTMB I don't know what it was one or two years earlier and Killian needed to get. Even it was very clear to me at the time. I'm like, oh, wow, like that was the price that Francois had to pay. Two years later was like Killian just like not like yep, here we go. And he, yeah, his final split, uh, in hard rock a couple of years ago, is just insane.
Speaker 2:So, and then there's other stories.
Speaker 2:Like you know, he he didn't know how to slack line. This is like eight, 10 years ago. He was in Boulder, colorado, um, scott Jurek and his partner, his wife, jenny Jurek, they'd set up a slackline and Killian just kept falling off and like just kind of became obsessed with it because there was a lot of people around him that were getting it and he wasn't getting it, and it was like clear that he was like needed to to perform, uh, to do well, um, and so, yeah, there's, there's a drive in him that, uh, I just don't think can really be learned or or faked Um, and and I uh I've been grateful for my years uh with him as a teammate, um, as a friend and as a competitor. Um, I've never uh deluded myself into thinking that I could uh match his performances. I don't have the interest or in in maintaining my diet like that, in maintaining my training like that, and being that focused, as focused as he is on doing the things that he does. So, yeah, that's, that's him in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting to me because you know, like, and you're not, you understand this. Like the way people view you guys, you know, is like these especially. You know people of your class, if you will. He's Ryan S sands, the killians. You like there's larger than life figures and everyone wants to know, especially the new class of people coming up like everybody's curious. It's like, what was it like back then and what were these people like? And killian's obviously still around now, just as you are. So it's ryan sands, um, but it's like it's just a different time and how things go from there. I'm very curious because you've done, you've had so many lives in the sport. You've done, you've ran across the country, you've competed at the highest level in the sub ultra races, you competed in Europe and now you seem to be on a different, a different path. Like, what is your relationship like with competition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I still enjoy it. Uh, I just uh, yeah, I, you know it was in 2017, 2018. I just uh, I competed at that point for 15 solid years. Um, it wasn't you know the. Yeah, it wasn't always enjoyable for me. Um, yeah, the the focus needed in order to do well.
Speaker 2:I think both the sport was getting faster and I felt like maybe I was getting left behind a little bit, or, you know, to be able to do my storytelling stuff and do the competition. It was hard to marry those two, and so that's when I just kind of left the competition. I never retired, I never said I'm leaving this forever, I never had a chip on my shoulder about it, but it was clear to me that that wasn't going to be my focus anymore. Today I still compete, but I just take it a lot more gently. I'm a lot more kind to myself. It's, you know, it's hard when you your identity, your paycheck, um, you know, so many things are attached to where you finish in in a race, and I still think that it's still kind of true that, like this, this isn't a first, second, third place sport. This is a win or lose sport. Um and um, I lost a lot of times, and it was like this is really fricking hard to like just keep like doing this constantly. To like just keep like doing this constantly and uh, yeah, and not not be on the top of the podium all the time, if almost really never, um, and so I, just for me personally, I needed to step away from that for a little bit and kind of re-explore what was really exciting to me about the sport and I feel like I still kind of deal with that, not necessarily for myself, but with others, with my guided running trips, convincing people that they, that you know, to turn your watch off during these trips, to to not be so focused on on, uh, on on the, the effort that you're putting in, but just being present out there, cause that's the greatest gift of all with this sport is to to be able to explore places uh, further, faster, you know, get deep into the wilderness, um, and still come out that same day, um. So, yeah, let's see, I did a 5k uh here in Santa Fe on Thanksgiving. Uh came in third place, uh, last year and this year, coming up, I'm doing a donkey race where you tie, you know, a ride and you're running with a donkey um, a burrow, um, and that's like seven or eight miles, um, and then, uh, yeah, I still run quite a bit, um, and we'll see. Uh, I've the longer efforts.
Speaker 2:Uh, to me, like it's, it's more important for me to run on terrain that that speaks to me, and not necessarily one, uh, terrain that has a start and finish line. Um, I, uh, yeah, without trying to say anything negative about any of my friends, races that are on ski resorts, it just uh, I know that that is that I, I know how hard it is to get a permit to put together a race and that ski resorts is where it has to kind of happen. But, like, for me, that it's the least inspiring mountainous terrain in the world is being on a man-groomed surface where half the trees are cut down. You're usually running up a road. If you're lucky, you're running on off-road or on a trail on that mountain, you're it's, you're surrounded by industrial um, like it's not industrial waste, but like this industrial complex piping and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know the lift poles and and trash left over from the ski, like, yeah, sorry, it sounds a bit negative, what, how I think about those races, but to me it's like I've only got so many efforts in me in a day, in a year, in a week in my lifetime. Is that where I'm want to spend that effort? Or am I going to go into what I consider to be more proper wilderness and and do my effort out there? I've got a wife and two kids. Like my time is precious, um, and so where? Where am I going to spend that time? Where am I going to spend that energy? And there's much more inspiring terrain to me out there. So that's my racing in a nutshell, like where I am with it now, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's a beautiful answer. I do want to get into Hot Run Hut and some of the guided trips that you do, because I know you have one coming up. I think it's in May, correct? That's going to be in New Mexico, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, have one coming up. I think it's in May, correct. That's going to be in New Mexico, right? Yeah, I got my guiding permit here in Santa Fe a few years ago and I've been putting together a trip called Santa Fe Fastpack, a trip that's kind of geared towards getting people either camping for the first time or returning to camping. I think it's a really great thing that gear has come so far in the past 10, 20 years that you can get away with a 15-pound backpack in the backcountry has opened a lot of people's eyes to what they think is possible for themselves in terms of terrain covered in a day.
Speaker 2:I love a one day run, you know, and going back home for the night, but I also really, really love watching the sunset and going to sleep out in the wilderness and waking up and doing it again the next day. And my run across the country, although it wasn't always comfortable, just showed me that, like it can be, you can. You can make a few adjustments and have a super light pack and cover like immense terrain, uh, day after day, um and with with food. You don't have to get freeze dried food. You can get a lot of food just from Trader Joe's or even from the gas station, and and be out there for a long time and and just uh, as Killian says, more miles, more fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's beautiful. Um, I don't want to pivot too hard because I do have across the country questions. I want to ask you too and I'm going to link the video on YouTube in the show notes so people can go watch it. I do want to dive into some of the because we're I think we're in a similar place in the world right now than we were when you went across, when you decided to run across the country right now, than we were when you went across and you decided to run across the country. Um, and I want to dive into a little bit like what you learned kind of takeaways from that. Um, obviously you don't have to repeat everything from the video because it will link that, but just a little bit of a synopsis of some of the bright points and some of the things you learned beautiful interactions and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, uh, in a nutshell, uh, I think there's there's the world's full of beautiful and wonderful people. Um, you know the we live in a different, uh time right now than we ever have before. Media is, um, such a central part of our existence, whether it be Instagram or Fox News or the New York Times or NPR. You know, we just have more access to information right now than we ever have before, and I think it makes people feel more divided than unified, and I think that's a really powerful tool that can be used to increase other people's power. So it's I'm glad that I went across the country during 2017. And right now, I'm actively consuming less media than I did, than I have in years. I'm not immensely saddened by too much that's happening right now. It it like definitely not a direction that I would personally, uh, choose, um, but I, yeah, I just think that we we just don't know what the future holds for us. Um, there's, yeah, uh.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to tiptoe here, yeah that's fine. Yeah, but uh yeah that's. That's kind of where I'm at right now. Uh, I I think that if people are losing faith, I mean, yeah, if people are losing faith, you know, uh, get out on foot and start talking to strangers, uh, and, and hold your judgments back and start listening to people. It was immensely helpful for myself and I think it can be helpful for everybody, really.
Speaker 1:That's where I was going with it was. I think we're a lot more similar than we are different and I think just talking to a neighbor and just having conversation and getting outside I think makes a huge difference. And, like I said, I'll link the video in the show notes because I think I sent it to my mom and I sent it to my wife before this when I was doing research for the episode. And, man, that's probably the fourth or fifth time I watched that video and every time I was just blown away by it. So, yeah, it's powerful and I would invite anyone to challenge anyone to go watch it. So let's talk. 50 Classic Trails. This is a. It's a book you're working on. Is that correct right now for the 50 classic trails?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's. Uh, it was an idea, it was a project, um, that I've came up with um years ago I'd say at this point, maybe even 10 years ago started talking about it. Um, so the there's a book called the 50 classic climbs of North America came out in the 1970s. Um, and some just like legendary mountaineering routes around North America, a couple of which have never been repeated. Um, but given my background as both uh, you know, a climber and a mountain runner, and just having friends in the climbing world, uh, it just sparked conversation a while ago, like what would these trails be? Um, in the United States? Um, and so it's something that I've thought about for a while. Um, I worked on it for a second when I was running with Solomon, but it never really took off. And then I was approached by John G and they said, hey, do you want to continue that project? And I said that sounds great. And so we started working on it together. We were, yeah, I was working on it with them for about three months and, mind you, when I say that, it's like, you know, I come up with a trail and they helped me get there and they might help find a photographer, but working on it for a few months.
Speaker 2:The co-founder of John G, mike Bernstein, asked if I knew these two other guys, ian McClellan and Andy Cochran, and I said no, who are they? And he said, well, they're both photographers and they're working on the same project. I'm like what he's like? Do you want to talk to him? I'm like, yeah, I guess. And we had a conversation, the three of us, and compared notes and so many of our ideas and trails overlapped. Let's work together on this team of three. It'll be stronger as a result. And so I've been working with these two other guys on the project the three of us, equal collaborators for the past year. And, yeah, currently in the process of pitching the book and trying to find a publisher, and ideally the right publisher to find a publisher and ideally the right publisher, and the goal is to have it on coffee tables. Book making takes a lot longer than most people realize, but ideally, middle of 2027 would be really amazing to have this book on coffee tables around the country and beyond.
Speaker 1:Wow, I can't wait to get a copy of it. I's a. I think that'll be, that'll be a popular one, no doubt. I mean just the Lewitt trail, just so many of the ones that you had, um, I think you and Janji had posted about already Um, so ideal, so aesthetic, so perfect. So, yeah, no, thank you for doing that. I think the trail running community. I think that it's a very positive reaction to having you know something like that just. I think that it's a very positive reaction to having you know something like that just, whereas the climbing community has the 50 classic climbs, so pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exciting, uh, and and it it certainly uh reinvigorated my desire to keep my running shoes on and to stay fit. Um, let's see next. Uh, in April, I'm heading out to Hawaii to run two trails out there, um, and I'm so excited for it. Like I, I I've been training through the winter time just so I don't get my butt kicked. Uh, running up and down Haleakala, um, and so it's stuff like this, just researching and, uh, you know trails in other places, researching the history, the geology, the human history of those places. Uh, you know trails in other places, researching the history, the geology, the human history of those places. Um, has been super fun. It feels like a self-imposed master class of of a few different items there and um, so, yeah, it's, it's been uh, really rewarding, super cool.
Speaker 1:So you're a dad now and you're in your forties or 43, you've lived so many lives in the sport and have done so much and accomplished so much. I'm curious to see the way you think about like what's next, like do you have any goals still left in the sport to accomplish, or is it? Is there anything you still have on the list to do? Like, how do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Um, well, let's see there's. There's one race that's always out there because of the format of the race, and that's the Dipsy trail uh in uh California.
Speaker 2:Um, another race that I've been uh the bridesmaid for. I came in second on my first year doing it Um, but for those that don't know, it's a race that is handicapped by both sex, gender and age, and so it's oftentimes a 60, 70 year old woman or an eight year old girl that that wins the race because of the handicap given to them. So it feels like a fun race to kind of always keep out there on the horizon Like, okay, like when I'm ready to train for, uh, a solid block. Um, I I'm going to put my name in the hat there again and you know, with an eight minute handicap or a 10 minute handicap, and see, see how I can fare. Um, but uh, yeah, uh, outside the racing realm. Uh, obviously this 50 classic trails project uh is going to be still a couple years in the making, um, and then I'm halfway through um every single street. Uh. Santa fe um, I'm not uh being quite as vigorous about this one as I was. Uh, san Francisco, I did the full 1300 miles of San Francisco in about six weeks. Uh, so about 30 to 35 miles a day. Um, with 150,000 feet of climbing. This one is I'm like four or five years into it and only like 350 miles in. So I kind of chip away at it a little bit at a time, you know, when I want to mix up my training or mix up my interests. That feels like a project that's going to be kind of lifelong for me, not necessarily Santa Fe, but we have no intention of moving anywhere else, but I think everywhere else I will live in my life I'll want to do this project in some form or another.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I, yeah, just the act of running. Um, yeah, uh, I've thought about, like maybe you know when, when the kids are grown, do I want to go across the country again. Like you know when, when the kids are grown, do I want to go across the country again. Like, um, I think that would be really cool. Um, you know, a lot of people are inspired by the long trails Appalachian trail, the Pacific crest trail.
Speaker 2:Um, I enjoyed going across the country so much like I don't need to run it next time. I don't but doing it and getting out there and seeing people and meeting new people, seeing new terrain, I think was super fun. So that could be in the future. And then just like, yeah, I don't know the the act of running, of movement, moving by my own power on two feet, just yeah, you learn so much about the earth beneath, beneath you, the people around you, and and about yourself, um, so I know that it's it's going to be a lifelong thing. I think everybody should have something that they do for their entire lifeline, lifetime, um, and for me, I'm I'm pretty deep into to running, and so who knows, uh, what the next 10, 20, 30 years, uh, in this sport, will look like?
Speaker 1:That's a beautiful answer and it's interesting, I don't know. I just interesting to see the way you think about it I. So I noticed you have a store a little bit of a storied history with Pike's peak. And just because I'm a Colorado Springs guy and I'm on the board of the Pike's peak marathon, I have to ask you like do you think you'll ever come back to the Pike's peak? Do you think we could ever ever coax you back to come race that race Uh possibly.
Speaker 2:Um, that's uh, yeah, it's. It's a strange trail race. It's, uh, you know the, so I, I. I guess Matt Carpenter's record was beaten this year, just the ascent, but he still had the marathon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so two years ago Remy Remy took the, the win at the ascent, and I think he lowered it by. Might've been a minute, maybe less, somewhere in that range. I should know that.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, the marathon record still stands, yeah, so, um, you know that his record loved that race. Um, uh, it's, it's not one that calls, it's not one that calls me back. Um, yeah, I would rather go run up and down the maroon bells in Aspen Colorado, um, or a pyramid right, or pyramid peak, uh, or capital peak. So, in terms of a 14er, um, yeah, that, that one's, uh, that one, that one didn't capture me, uh, I'm not full. Killian jornet, uh, when it comes to that race, like, I'm not going to call it a road race, which I think he has um, or that, maybe not a road race. He says that it's flat.
Speaker 1:It is pretty flat. I mean, even though it's almost 8,000 feet of climbing, it's pretty full. It's it's not technical, so I think that's what makes it easier. I don't know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So so for me, uh, in terms of, like my relationship to the mountains, like a certain level of technicality, um, is is much more appealing. So, yeah, it's I'm. I love that the race exists. I pay attention to results, um, and I love its history, um, but it's, it's not a race that ever totally captured my heart, fair enough, Fair enough, Fair enough.
Speaker 1:Hey, I got to ask you know, yeah, Okay, so one more serious question. This was something I actually had on the docket to ask you earlier and I forgot to ask you With your transition from Solomon to Janji after being with Solomon for so long and you don't have to, you can answer this with as much information as you want. You can answer this with as much, uh, information as you want, but I'm just I gotta ask you, like that must've been a very difficult transition to like leave Solomon after so many years and transition to, you know, to go to Janji. Um, yeah, Like what was, what was your thought on that? Like that must've been hard to make that transition.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it was hard. It was like, uh, you know, nothing's permanent, um, and I just, uh, I just really appreciated my time with Solomon, um, and yeah, I, it just felt like, I think for both sides it felt like a relationship that had run its course and, you know, it's strange or appropriate to compare it to like a romantic relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend, and it's like, you know, at a certain point you're like, are we still doing this? Like we can go different ways? It's totally fine. Like it could be better for both of us and and I think, yeah, ultimately it was best for for both sides to go different ways and, yeah, to freshen things up.
Speaker 2:So, uh, I'm immensely grateful to Solomon for all those years that they invested in, uh, into the sport, and to me, um, and I made such, like I said earlier, I made such wonderful friendships, um, but, yeah, definitely at the end there, when I'm like, okay, like this is it, I'm done, I'm like, oh, wow, like I am probably never going to see, like that person, that person, that person, I'll probably never see them again. Like the reality is in my life, like you know, it's a French company. Like, yeah, our paths probably aren't going to pass across again. But then there's a few really special relationships that I'll know, I know I'll see again.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's a beautiful answer. I, I mean, hey, I got to hand it to Janji. Um, like amazing company, I think if there's a team to be on now, that's that's one of the. You know the growing teams. Um, you know great apparel, so it's exciting. I growing teams, um, you know great apparel, so it's exciting. I really like, I mean, I think Kayla is the athlete manager, I believe, correct. Um, yeah, I think what they're doing there is amazing. Uh, so it's, it's, it's exciting to see them grow and, um, just build out their team with Corey and everybody that they have on there. So very exciting to follow along on that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, I'm honored to be a part of the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um'm honored to be a part of the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. So, as we wind down now with questions, I'm just very curious to see who inspires you. I mean, we've been talking about him a bit, but yeah, killian inspires me, I just, uh, when I met him at this point, like 14 years ago and even 10 years ago, five years like I think he's going in the direction in our sport of kind of like the Reinhold Messner, like he's genuinely constantly pushing boundaries and thinking about the sport philosophically and writing about it and constantly being engaged, and his world keeps getting a little bit smaller, as you know, his projects get bigger, um, so I I think that he's super inspiring. Um. Let's see Dakota Jones uh, just good buddy, um, with a huge heart, and that he, you know, started this nonprofit, footprints Running. I think is really cool that he, yeah, puts a lot of effort into marrying a couple different passions, you know, environmental protection, the youth, science and and running. Let's see other inspiration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I look outside the sport quite a bit, uh, towards, uh, artists and um, yeah, just, there's, there's some, there's a lot of weirdos out there, um, where I'm like, wow, yeah, I love that. Um. And then, yeah, now I'm looking at the refrigerator and I see my two kids up there and and, uh, just seeing watching my two kids grow up. Uh, yeah, now I'm looking at the refrigerator and I see my two kids up there and just seeing watching my two kids grow up. I just love watching, seeing how they like, my daughter doesn't know that I'm she's three years old.
Speaker 2:She doesn't know that I'm a runner. She doesn't know anything about you know that part of my life. I'm just dad, I'm just papa, um. But when she decides we let our daycare is like I don't know a quarter mile from here, and the other day she ran all the way home and I kind of like walked swiftly behind her. I'm like that's awesome. Like where do you even like, is it it? How? Like to me it's like it makes me wonder like what's fun about running, and to me that like it's encapsulated right there watching a three-year-old uh running home and and giggling the entire time. So, yeah, so that's. Uh, there's a few people right there. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:When you're getting ready for a race or something difficult, training, run, whatever, what, what, what music are you listening to If you have music in your ears like what's your? What's your favorite song these days?
Speaker 2:Uh, let's see, um, I have, uh, yeah, I'm like a pretty serious spotify guy, um, which I find that a lot of people that are on spotify actually don't even know what they're listening to, and I'm definitely in that category um, so I can't even tell you the names of things, but I can tell you I listened to my liked songs playlist and one of the songs that I don't like is from the movie Shaun the Sheep, and we threw that on there because my daughter likes it. So, yeah, I tend not to listen to music too much when I'm running, not opposed to it. Uh, I think, if, if people, if it helps people and it has helped me in the past um, then that's that's wonderful. But, uh, yeah, I can't come up with a, a solid answer for that. No, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1:All right. So last question I usually make this one a goofy one. I'm trying to think of, like which, which way I want to go with this, because it's uh, I'd say let's go with. What's your take on bigfoot man? Do you were you ever a believer? Do you believe in bigfoot? Have you ever had any weird experiences in the woods? Like I'm just so curious because you went across the country and like slept out most of it. Like if anyone's going to have a weird encounter, it's gotta be you, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I believe in some weird stuff, but Bigfoot is not one of them. Um, but I think it's. Uh, I think it is really exciting for people to believe in them, and I also think that it's exciting for people to want other people to believe in them, and I also think that it's exciting for people to want other people to believe in them. So, uh, the pranksters out there, I think, uh, it's, it's good for them, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a guy on the Pikes Peak highway that dresses up in a gorilla suit every year just once and just walks across in front of a car just to keep it alive. Like just, I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So some poor family sees that and like, what is this? Well, ricky, thank you so much for your time. It was an honor and a pleasure getting to talk to you. I hope this is not our last conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and yeah, man, I wish you the best of luck in uh on your 50, uh, your 50 classic trail um pursuits.
Speaker 2:Thanks a lot, james. If I can put one plug in, I've got Brad uh bus trip. Uh, in the middle of the summertime, bus run bus. Um, we did. We were talking about some of my running trips. I hope people will consider it. Uh, our first stop is at Western States 100 for the finish line watching the winners of the men's and women's races. We start in San Francisco and end in Seattle. Uh, june 28th to July 5th um busrunbuscom. Um, so, yeah, I've got a few different running trips. That's one that feels like artwork in motion to me Road tripping and running in beautiful places full of a bunch of, in a bus full of stinky runners Amazing. So, yeah, if, if, if, anybody wants to get out there and share the trails this summer. Uh, I'll be in San Francisco on June 28th getting on a big, uh converted coach bus to go up to.
Speaker 1:Uh, where is it at? What's the? What's the? Where's the track at? I, the name escapes.
Speaker 2:Auburn.
Speaker 1:Auburn. Auburn, california.
Speaker 1:There we go? Um, yeah, no, I'll definitely link that in the show notes so anybody interested can reach out to you. Um, obviously, on bus run buscom or ricky gatescom or your social media as well. Um, ricky, thank you so much. I appreciate it, man. Um, have a wonderful rest of your day and I can't wait for the world to hear this. Thanks, james, appreciate it, take care. Yeah, you too. What'd you guys think? Oh, man, what an amazing episode. Um, I really want to thank Ricky so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Like, just like I said, like we get to meet your heroes in the sport and Ricky just lived up to everything I thought he would be. Um, just as such an incredibly interesting human. And, um, you know, you meet so many people in the sport that are, like, more fit into like the athlete box and like ricky fits into multiple boxes, like the guy is an artist. Um, you know he refers to himself kind of as the conceptual runner, which I think fits his description so perfectly. Um, he is also an athlete, though like of the highest caliber. Ricky's uh kind of done it all in the sub ultra scene and accomplished so much over the years. Um, you know he told some amazing stories there with Killian. That was just like kind of mind blowing. Um, yeah, like kind of someone that's just lived some amazing lives in the sport and um, so excited for what this act of his, uh, of his career brings.
Speaker 1:So, guys, before you go and hop on Instagram and give Ricky a follow, um, if you don't already, you can find him at Ricky Gates. Uh, pretty simple, pretty straightforward. Um, if you don't already, you can find him at Ricky Gates. Uh, pretty simple, pretty straightforward. Um, definitely, I'm sure there's a lot of good value on Instagram there, um, from some of the projects that he's working on and the things that he's doing. So definitely highly worth a follow. Um, yeah, pretty amazing. If you guys enjoyed this episode, um, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or YouTube. Uh, that would mean the absolute world to me so we can continue to tell these great stories for these athletes. Yeah, one of the big things for me is if you enjoyed an episode, or why you enjoyed an episode. If you wouldn't mind just writing that, especially Apple, if you wouldn't mind writing that in the review of why you enjoyed the episode or what you enjoyed about the podcast, that would mean a lot, very, very.
Speaker 1:Last but not least, just some housekeeping stuff. Guys, saturday, march 29th if you guys are on the front range front range of Colorado, so Boulder all the way south to Colorado Springs on March 29th at 8am we are going to be doing our one-year birthday bash for the Steep Stuff podcast. We're going to be kicking it off with a group run. We're going to have refreshments, sponsored by Ultimate Direction. They're going to be bringing refreshments, free gear to give away, as well as some gear demos. You guys are going to get to see the new Ultra and Race Fest that we just dropped last week, and then we've got some special things that we're also going to be talking about.
Speaker 1:Ms Bailey Kowalczyk is going to be there as our guest of honor for the live podcast that we're going to be doing from Colorado Running Company. So we hope to do that in front of a large audience. We hope you guys can make it there to get to meet Bailey. There's going to be a lot of elite athletes there. There's going to be a lot of just folks from the community there. So it's going to be a really fun opportunity and time for everyone to just be there and have a nice community gathering. And then also this is like hot off the press Nike Trail is going to be there to demo some shoes as well. I'm not particularly sure which two models, but I do know there will be two models there to demo, which is going to be awesome. Yeah, so that's going to be our one year anniversary. We hope you guys can make it. If you happen to be in the area, that would mean the world to me. I hope to meet all of you face to face and just thank you guys for the love and support for the podcast over the last year.
Speaker 1:And then, very, very last but not least, ultimate Direction did just drop two new vests the Race 6L and the Ultra 12L, in two beautifully aesthetic color wheels. The white and blue is beautiful, as well as this new onyx and green color. These are super dynamic vests, completely different from anything that we've released before from a vest perspective. I think it's going to be an exciting thing for you. They're at a very affordable price point as well, and if you're looking for 25% off of those vests, use code steep stuff pod. You won't be disappointed. Highly recommend. I think these are going to be some of the hottest new products of 2025, especially going into the racing season. So, guys, I got lots for you this week. Hope you have a great week and thanks so much for tuning in. Thank you,
