The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#79 - Gwen Rudy
When Gwen Rudy tore her ACL last February, followed by ankle surgery in June, few would have predicted she'd be competing for an Olympic spot just months later. Yet here she is, relocating to Europe for six weeks to help Team USA secure their continental qualification for ski mountaineering's Olympic debut in 2026.
From her home in Leadville, Colorado at 10,000 feet elevation, Gwen shares the fascinating journey that transformed her from ultra runner to Olympic ski mountaineering hopeful. The altitude presents unique challenges – "I actually can't run a 6:30 minute mile up here," she explains – but has helped develop her extraordinary aerobic engine.
What's most remarkable is how Gwen's injuries became catalysts for positive change in her approach to training. "My new motto is 'quit a lap early and hit the gym,'" she reveals, highlighting her shift from pure endurance volume to incorporating serious strength training. This evolution has her feeling stronger and healthier than ever before, despite the setbacks.
The conversation explores the technical intricacies of ski mountaineering that casual observers might miss – the importance of flawless transitions, equipment management, and the power required for explosive movements. Gwen provides fascinating insights into what separates American athletes from their European counterparts who have grown up in the sport.
With Team USA currently just one point ahead of Canada in the Olympic qualification battle, every World Cup performance matters. Gwen's willingness to uproot her life, temporarily step back from her Leadville business, and immerse herself completely in European competition speaks volumes about the sacrifices elite athletes make in pursuit of their dreams.
Beyond the Olympics, we discuss the broader lessons of resilience, recovery psychology, and finding balance between ambition and sustainability. Whether you're a mountain sport enthusiast or simply appreciate stories of human determination, Gwen's journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom about what it takes to pursue excellence against formidable odds.
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This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction ! Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your next order ! The new Race Vest 6L & Ultra Vest 12L just dropped in some beautiful colorways, don't miss out and order one before they sell out.
What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Gwen Rudy, by way of Leadville, colorado, currently just moving and now residing in Europe. Gwen came on the podcast to go talk about both schemo and mountain running, but predominantly schema. Uh, gwen is in the process now of chasing some Olympic dreams, as she is a Olympic, uh, hopeful, um. Should the Americans be able to snag a spot? Um, or a team spot in, um, the Olympics for 2026 in Italy? Um, yeah, really fun conversation.
Speaker 1:It was super fun to have Gwen on the podcast. We talked about what it was like living in Colorado, or specifically in Leadville, at 10,000 feet and still being able to train at a super high level. We talked about training theory. We got into mountain running. We talked about some of her finishes. We talked about the 2023 US Mountain Running Champs in the uphill, where Gwen had a fantastic finish. In the uphill, where Gwen had a fantastic finish, we talked about just chasing, what it's like to chase big goals and being an Olympic hopeful and what that means to her, as well as Schemo and, yeah, it was just a really fun conversation, super exciting. I want to wish Gwen the best, especially as now she's in the process of relocating out to Europe to go chase some big goals and follow her dreams. So, yeah, I hope you guys enjoyed this one Great conversation.
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Speaker 2:well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so happy we're able to fit this in. I know scheduling-wise for you, being in and out of the country right now is pretty wild, so I'm just excited we were able to get this going and excited to finally have a conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm glad. I'm glad we rescheduled the last one, cause I actually tried to have a um a different interview and the hotel kept losing wifi, so it didn't work, so I'm glad yeah.
Speaker 1:Now it's worked out for the best. Uh, how's your week going so far? How's, uh, how's everything going?
Speaker 2:Oh man, it is busy. I kind of decided, like a week ago, to spend the rest of the winter in europe, so now it's kind of like just hustling, trying to get everything done, like I own a business in ladville so setting everything up so I can take that much time off, um, and then also like, yeah, get the gear all organized and get back to Europe for six or seven weeks, oh my gosh, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1:Let's back this up a little bit for those that might not be aware of the big goals that you're chasing. Maybe let's talk about your Schemo career and what you're doing with Schemo right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this year is a really special year in ski mountaineering. They recently announced the participation of ski mountaineering in the 2026 Olympic Games and so Team USA, the USA national team, were kind of really trying hard to show up to World Cups and earn a spot at the olympics. Um, I think last year was the first year. There was quite a lot of um just growth in usa schemo um and participation from the usopc getting involved. Um. So, yeah, it's been an exciting time to be part of the sport and, you know, be on a team that's hopefully earning team usa spot in the Olympics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, now you guys are all so driven Like I've had Cam on the podcast, I've had David Sinclair on the podcast and just getting to know those guys and some of the gals on the team as well. Everybody is just so driven to get Team USA a spot there, which is going to be so cool.
Speaker 2:If you guys are able to do that, I couldn't which is going to be so cool, for if you guys are able to do that, I couldn't, can't. Yeah, you know, and it's yeah, and it's going to be a tight battle, I think I'm sure they told you. But we have, um, essentially we're earning, hoping to earn, a continental spot, um, so we kind of have we're. It's us against canada right now. Um, you know, cam closed in on an epic race at the last world cup, got us like one point ahead of Canada, so like we're sitting ahead of them. So it's looking good, but not by much. And they're super talented. So are they. So it'll be an exciting season, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love to see how this plays out and you know and I've had a couple athletes on, I've had Jesse McCauley as well he sometimes competes on the Canadian side Um, and he's talked a little bit about like the Canadian side of um of the sport as well. Can you talk about um? Is it whether is your strength more in the mixed relay or is it in the sprint? Like, what do you like more? I've also noticed you're an amazing vertical runner, so I would imagine you're you got talent in the vertical as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm jack of all, master of none, um, and I actually never thought of myself as a shorter distance person, but I think I'm actually doing quite quite well in the shorter, more explosive disciplines. Um, yeah, I actually was more of an ultra runner at least that's what I thought leading into ski mountaineering. I kind of picked it up as a way to kind of change the sport with the season up here in Ludville, but I, yeah, then I was like actually I like this more than like slogging 100 miles, so I kind of just stuck with it and I, yeah, I've just like really enjoyed the process of like becoming a more powerful athlete than just like an endurance athlete, I guess yeah, yeah, I think that's totally fair and we'll get into some like some of the races that you've done in a little bit we'll talk about, because one of the things I do want to chat about is like you've had a stellar finish at the vertical us mountain running champs back in 23.
Speaker 1:You've had some great results at broken arrow. That we'll talk about um, but I I am very fixated on the schema, just because it's front of mind right now. Um, so what is that? What is that like going to spend the rest of your winter season racing um in europe and like living in europe? Like what kind of preparation do you have to make? Like what I'm trying to get? It is like how easy does USA Schemo make that process for you?
Speaker 2:It's really complicated. We it's actually pretty unorganized, so there's kind of a lot of just constant moving parts or there's no plans until like a week or two before the next event. Okay, and so like right now we're like is there a team van going from borneo to world champs? Like we don't know. So we're all like trying to get in touch with one another, like where are you playing into? Like are you renting a car? Should I rent a car? Can we like all ride together? There's actually, I think there's some organization thanks to Sarah Cookler. She's kind of the one employee and head of USA Schemo right now and she's doing a great job.
Speaker 2:But it's hard and I think I'm excited to go back for six weeks, because I was originally trying to do kind of two weeks on, come back and work for two weeks. But the international travel just takes it out of you and I was like I cannot keep. Like the last trip in Spain I was just sick the whole time and super fatigued, I don't. I think between the travel and getting sick I just didn't feel like an athlete, um, so that was such a bummer. So I'm excited to go back and just get to indulge in the lifestyle I think and really do what I can and get to focus on the sport for once, instead of feeling so spread thin between trying to run a business and see clients managing many different schedules trying to squeeze in training, and then the super cold temps here in leadville are really hard to train in. So I'm excited, yeah, to go back to the alps and give it a go yeah, plus all the croissants.
Speaker 2:I'm so jealous, yeah you know that's what fuels team usa. I know, I know cam started.
Speaker 1:He always, always talks about the croissants and he got me on the croissant kick and like I have like a German bakery, like right down the corner from my like, literally 10th of a mile from my house, that I go after like almost like every run, like maybe three or four times a week. It's deadly so like, especially in Europe, I feel like I would just up, I feel like I would just.
Speaker 2:That's all I would do is just train and eat croissants, like there's this, that's it, or pizza, you know, yeah, you're just replenishing. Yeah, you're, yeah, glycogen stores. Right, it's good. I yeah. It's actually really hard for me to come back to leadville and be like I don't know what to eat for breakfast or like for treats anymore everything is better than picking yeah, what is it? And then?
Speaker 1:lead the word. Oh no, finish.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I didn't mean to oh, I just was gonna say like we just don't have like a bakery in leadville. We, you know we have a few coffee shops, but not, they're not like delicious, fluffy homemade things yeah, wait, there's no bakery in leadville.
Speaker 1:I didn't even realize that well, I guess we have.
Speaker 2:We've had some individuals kind of do little, like you could order from them and they deliver something I don't know um, but we have a coffee shop that does do some baked goods but they haven't changed in like 15 years.
Speaker 1:Um, it's like the same generic stuff and I'm like, come on, man I feel like we got to put the bat signal up for someone to open a french bakery in leadville like come on like that's you would think that's like, especially with mike ambrose there, who lived in france, like yeah, someone's gotta, someone's gotta make this happen, mike yeah, well, I'm sure you also know my friend annie hughes.
Speaker 2:I've always joked with her like superhero muffin situation. I'm like, can you just bake muffins for us people of leadville?
Speaker 1:listen, something's gonna happen. We yeah you definitely need one.
Speaker 2:How do you like living in leadville?
Speaker 1:what's it? What's it like living at 10 000 feet year-round?
Speaker 2:um, it's kind of, you know, good and can be hard sometimes or frustrating. Um, I liked it for the, for the most part a lot. It's just, you know, super great access up here, probably a way slower pace of life than anyone gets to experience on the front range. Um, yeah, and it's just just like more simple, fewer distractions, so I really like it. Um, the winter is on, mud season can definitely drag on.
Speaker 2:And then for schemo specific, I think last year I was convincing myself I could never be a good schemo athlete living here because the altitude is just too high. Yeah, um, but I also think I was. I've talked to kim about it and arthur who. We all live at altitude and I think you just have to adjust your straining but your training. But I do think it's actually possible to still be able to like go down and down quite a bit of elevation to europe and still perform.
Speaker 2:Um, because I think the reason being is they say we never develop enough speed, yep, living up here. Um, but I think with, like you know, hitting the gym, building power and strength, um, and also something that's really changed for me, I think, is when I first got into schema, I used to just chase bert and like kind of just be a little addicted to my numbers. And now I've realized I think choosing flatter places to train and do my intervals, I can get quicker turnover and you're still, you know, hypoxic, essentially. So I think it's just yeah, instead of like slogging up speed stuff, going to a little flatter terrain and moving faster, moving harder, like I think you can actually counterbalance that. I'm hoping to go back and you know, see if that's true.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's an interesting conversation. I actually have had this conversation with cam and I've had this conversation with ray coble, because they have both said the same exact thing where, yeah, it's like going over to race in europe is its own beast just because the elevation is lower. It's developing that power to be able to have, you know, and, I guess, because we live well, you guys, you guys live really high. I'm in colorado spring, so I'm at 6 000. People like you guys are at 10 000, so it's got to be much harder.
Speaker 2:I mean, even like track workouts have to be heinous, like that's not, that's not, yeah, at all like I actually can't run like a 6 30 minute mile, like I just can't, like there's nowhere to do that and like maybe coming downhill yeah, yeah but yeah, I'm like to me, I'm like 10 minute miles are fast yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Maybe the vk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and that's actually I remember when I actually ran mountain champs two years ago. I remember it was kind of a flat course and we took off and I was like, wait, I'm hitting a five, 30 mile, I can't do this, I'm getting. I think I was like in 30th place until the climbing hit, because I was like I literally don't do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so fast in the beginning. Yeah there's, these coasts are bananas.
Speaker 2:Um, as I was like I literally don't do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so fast in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's, these coasts are bananas. Um, as far as like what you can do from a turnover perspective at sea level I don't go to sea level much Like I spend most of the year, if not all of the year, in in the Springs or higher or lower, maybe a little bit like we. Just it's funny, we moved from 7,000 feet down to 6,000. And I can even actually feel and this was like two months ago and I could feel the difference in speed intervals. Just with the 1,000-foot elevation difference I feel a little bit faster. I'm like huh, I wonder, because it's the same thing if you go down to Boulder. Boulder is like 5,000 feet.
Speaker 2:It's like whoa, I feel like a superhuman when I come down here yeah, well, it's actually funny too, because so many people say they can run so fast when they go low and I kind of think I've been at altitude so long, I actually just don't feel good at lower altitude, like if it's too low. Um, like I feel okay at like six and seven thousand feet, but if I go to sea level I'm actually like super lethargic really and just don't feel fast no, I wonder if that has something to do with like, uh, like the hemocrit or blood, red blood cells or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, I don't know the science, yeah, but my guess is like we just have thicker blood up here because we have to transport more oxygen and so maybe that thick blood makes us sluggish until it like thins out. I don't know that's. I've had other people say they feel the same and I'm like, oh well, that's a bummer, I don't get to experience that speed.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, how many, how many years have you lived up in Ludville?
Speaker 2:Um. I moved back here in 2019 and after I finished um acupuncture school in Boulder, um but I was here I moved to Ludville first in 2012 and I went to colorado mountain college um got an associate's in outdoor ed um and I stayed here until like 20 through 2015 and then moved out down to boulder in 2016. So nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy how long like being up there for I don't know. It's great for high altitude racing like Like if you go race at a base. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, that's like I mean. I think that's why I've started realizing steeper races are better for me, cause again, I'm just not fast, but I can walk up real quick. Strong hiking, strong hike. Let's talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that because you had I mean absolute- like super lights out performance at the us mountain running champs, back in 23 for the vertical, and you've also had a top 10 finish at the broken arrow vk, which not too many men and women can say that they've done that because it's such a competitive race. Um, what do you? Let's talk about the us mountain running champs. Do you have plans to possibly go back this year after your ski season?
Speaker 2:um, I don't know yet. To be honest, I part of me feels like, if I want to focus on schema, I really don't want to be racing in the winter because, like, just when I leave for europe, like we race every weekend almost in for seven weeks, um, it's just a lot of racing. Um, so I'm not sure, I guess. But also, when the time comes, I'll probably want to. Um, my yeah, my one thought is like jumping into some vks wouldn't hurt. Yeah, um, we're quick and painful and, um, I think the biggest thing is I'll probably drop like more of the ultra stuff, like that's just not productive in schema training or the goals right now.
Speaker 1:So, um, it's a more sub ultra.
Speaker 2:There we go yeah, but like I also actually can't run downhill very quick, or I I'm sure if I practiced I could. But I had ankle surgery and I I was an ankle smasher, like I think every other race I was smashing an ankle, um, and so I it's hard to imagine doing that again, since, like getting it surgically fixed, um, so that's also I'm like maybe uphill only racing which I'm bummed I wish we had more of in the us, like I know, I feel like there's such a good scene in europe and if you've just tried any of their vk courses, ours are kind of flat a joke, I think the best one in the country, and this is no shade of broken arrow, because broken arrows now changed it from a vk to an ascent, but, like the right, I think the rut has like the only proper vk in america as of right now.
Speaker 1:I think there's there's one more. I think it's like the mount si hill climb or mount c hill climb. That's in washington, I think I like I literally just saw it like recently, um, okay, which is like a proper. It might be like three miles though to get like three or four thousand feet, um, but like, just like a proper vk. You know what? I'm gonna put this, put this out there, cause, like we have been, I've been in the process of like looking into, like, all right, how expensive is it to do this? And like how much is it to put on a race and go through the whole process. But if anyone like one and I'll put this out to like listeners like if anyone wants to do one, tell your ride is the best place.
Speaker 2:Like that VK is's and telly ride.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, let's do it listen, I'm all in for race directing at this point, no, but in all seriousness, like we, we do need more vertical races in america, like there's like a sense and he'll, he'll like, quote, unquote, he'll climbs, but nothing like property vks, uh really I want to backtrack a little bit to injuries because, like you've been, you have had this history of, just by following you on instagram, like it's been a lot of uh injuries over the last like year or so, or just like one really bad injury was the knee, correct yeah, I tore my acl in february last year to end in my season early let's, uh, let's unpack that one like what that must have been horrible to go through that yeah, I.
Speaker 2:So you know it happened about this time last year and I had just gotten back from a three-week stint where the US OPC kind of stepped in on a trip to kind of help identify the needs of our support for Team USA. They called it Project Podium, but we're more like Project 12th Place, maybe Podium. I mean, cam Smith is crushing it and so is Griffin. Griffin's a beast. Yeah, they're all all doing. The men are actually doing so well, um, I think you know they just have a lot of experience in world cup racing. I've heard people need like a 20 um, 20, 20 different starts to really start getting it down, and I think I meant like eight. So I'm like okay, like if I can time, um, it will get there, and it's not a fitness thing, it's like a ripping your skin, it's just putting the whole race together. Um, and I think we'll. We'll get there with some some time, but um, but yeah. So this time last year, after I was in Europe, I actually we all also got sick on that trip. The first week or two Um didn't go so great. By the third week I was was better race pretty well. But then I was excited to come back to the U S? Um, we saw USA nationals in March so I and I I just had felt like I had so much quality training that I never got to like like show in a race, um. So, anyways, last workout before USA nationals, um, we had a really bad snowstorm up here and really heavy snow and also it was just like super windy, not very pleasant out, and I was just trying to get up and down and get my workout in, Um, and I was skiing on a snowmobile track and my right foot slayed out and caught an edge and like just ripped my ACL off the bone. Uh, it was really painful. Some people say it doesn't hurt to tear one, it really hurts. I can say differently Um, yeah, and so, um, I was pretty certain. So I felt a pop, um, but yeah, but yeah, didn't get. Race nationals ended my season, um.
Speaker 2:And then so back up prior to that, while we were in europe, we had the sopc sent us a, sent a team doctor with us and she was doing routine evals um with us for just like checking in on us and then getting baselines for if we had head in like concussions and whatnot. But anyways, she was kind, was kind of like man you're. I told her I had like repetitive ankle sprains and I really smashed it last summer and she was like she pulled out a tuning fork, which is kind of a non X-ray way to diagnose a broken bone, and she did it on my ankle and it really hurt. And then she was like, yeah, I think you have a broken ankle and I had broken it in july and like I actually had a small surgery that last summer.
Speaker 2:I had a retro calcaneal bursitis, but I it was a small procedure, they just had to remove the bursa, stitch up, but it was still like two or three weeks off, um, and so I think I broke my ankle two days later, went in for that surgery, um, and so I kind of just thought, oh, my ankle hurts because I'm not running. Usually I just run out ankle sprains like an idiot, like most people we all do.
Speaker 2:I do the same thing, I know but now when I see people do it, I'm like, don't do it, like, oh, take care of it because it gets. Yeah, I don't know like it'll just get worse and worse. I think how badly broken was yours like?
Speaker 1:did you have to get like a pin in it or anything? Did you have to go to surgery on it or?
Speaker 2:no well, so by the time we discovered it was broken it was six months later, um, but I think, uh, my body naturally grew all these bone spurs in the joint so I didn't have proper dorsiflexion, like I was kind of a toe walker going uphill because my ankle didn't bend, and I kind of told them like, oh yeah, I just like get this really bad pinch in the joint. And so, yeah, by the time I got x-rays and MRIs, the bone break itself had healed but I had ruptured the, the ligaments and um had like three huge bones burrs like deep in the joint. So so they had to grind those out, strap up my ligaments, yeah, so that was so. Yeah, I kind of tore my ACL after that news. And so you know, I went to Stedman, got all the different appointments and they were like, yep, I think ACL surgery is the longer rehab we do, that first it takes. They weren't willing to do my ankle for three months because you basically need to rebuild quad back to protect the graft, um, and it's really hard to grow a quad back Like it just takes time and it's so slow. You're like I used to have a muscle there and now I just look like withered away, um, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, three months later I got my second surgery mid June last summer and I actually had some people tell me like, cause I was so torn, I was like, should I just not do the ankle surgery and have a chance to race? And some people were like, yeah, I think if you do both, you're not going to like have time to get back in shape for the ski season. And I kind of was. Really I took it to heart, cause I was like, oh, I yeah, like that's just not much time to build a base, um, and just you, you know, having never been through that before, I wasn't sure what, I don't know like how quickly you get fitness back, um, so, but I also think it does actually come back pretty quick and I think the whole injury process I think was actually positive in the end.
Speaker 2:Like it just like my new motto when I'm out training is like quit a lap early and hit the gym like say, like I need to be prioritizing strength, which is so good for chemo and so good for injury prevention. Um, because I think in mudville especially, there's just like such a volume culture up here, maybe just because it's more of an ultra running scene than anything else and I think I like drank that kool-aid and you know, was more focused on collecting vert and volume than I was being like a healthy, well-rounded athlete. Um, and I think honestly like the way I train now since injury and just also maybe changing it up to shorter events in schemo, like I just feel so much stronger and so much healthier.
Speaker 1:So I, yeah, I really like it that's amazing and that was actually kind of answered my question. But I am still curious, like how much turnaround time? Because I mean, like I said, we follow each other on Instagram and I've seen your, all of your stories from the summer like like being, you know, just kind of injured, you know, going through that whole process which must've driven you nuts.
Speaker 1:If that was me I'd be going crazy, Like what was the time Cause I feel like you went from that and then here you are competing on, you know, at a high level in schema. You did it really quickly, which is impressive. Um, like, how long did it take you to get back in shape?
Speaker 2:like it must have not been very long yeah, it's kind of weird, like I think you know the processes of recovering for injury. They're so like step by step. You're not suddenly like I'm out of shape and I have to go run 10 miles. It's like if you just keep doing the little things, it's kind of just the process and I guess it gets you there. But yeah, I do think like I definitely didn't rush things to get back. I really played it safe Listen to my PT because I was like there's no way I'm retiring this, like that was awful.
Speaker 2:Um, the rehab for an ecl is just like it's actually a lot of work. So between surgeries it was like you're doing pt like five times a day and it's like you're literally just sitting there squeezing your quad, lifting your leg, doing clamshells, like it's all really basic stuff. But you just like you really have to be dedicated and I know so many people I think don't like stay dedicated because it's so monotonous. Um, but I I really did. If my PT said, do it, I did it and I didn't do it like one session short um, so I think just that the process and like seeing progress like cause, I think the progress with an ACL recovery also is so like week to week, you're like wow, I can do this now, wow, I can do that now, like and like before I knew it by I think.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, my last surgery was, or my ankle was done mid June. I was non-weight bearing for two weeks, which I lost all quad progress literally withered away again. Oh my god, um, yeah, but I think by mid-july I was allowed to ride a bike outdoors. So I went pretty ham on that, um, and I think I think it was just like so much fun and like I guess also in the whole process, so many people like I don't know how you did it, it would drive me crazy like just sitting around and like I would say I would have thought so too.
Speaker 2:But I think when you're going through it, like like everything just becomes harder. Like you know, right after surgery, like getting to the bathroom is hard, you're exhausted, you're like loopy, um, and then, like a week or two later I went back to work and that was just exhausting, um, just trying to be on my seat most the day, um, on crutches, um, and then later I came to work on knee scooters. I loved the knee scooter, it was so much fun. Yeah, I was just like during my workday, like scooch down Harrison get a coffee, like had a little cup holder, like it was actually pretty fun.
Speaker 1:I bet. I bet the scooters are awesome. Yeah, that's fun. So so it yeah no, I'm sorry, I bet, I bet the scooters are awesome yeah. That's fun, so so it yeah. No, I'm sorry I didn't interrupt you.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I was just going to say like I think, because every little thing is like hard and each week feels like so much progress, it wasn't just like like there was just so many little steps to get to each phase that it it felt like you still had so much to work towards each week.
Speaker 1:It's interesting too, cause I feel like I don't know, um, you could focus on other things too, right, I don't know, I feel like us as athletes. I can't speak for you, but I can speak for myself. Like I obsess over, like it is a huge part of my identity and like when that like even if I get sick or whatever, whenever it gets taken away it could be a week, could be two weeks I lose my mind. I'm like, what am I going to do? But then I have other things to pour myself into, like the podcast, like work, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I'm sure for someone like you, like there's, you know, you're able to pour yourself into work and do other things too, to just take your mind off of it, and you know, just work on other things as well yeah, for sure, I think I just I just tried to work a little more, knowing I needed to save up for the winter, um, but yeah, I, I think actually the biggest thing was I was like, I actually like being lazy, is this bad?
Speaker 1:it's not a bad thing, it's fun, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I also think like I just am a hyperactive person in general and that was the first time I really took a break and I was like I don't think when I'm healthy I actually want to, but I think for some reason I was like this is kind of nice, like that could be lazy forever.
Speaker 1:Listen. I don't often do it, but when, if it's like like after you know, as long as I get my run in, I'm happy. But, like if it's a cold winter day, there is nothing better on like a saturday afternoon than just like sitting on the couch and chilling like after. Yeah, it is, it is the best like it's when it's like fuzzy blankets, yeah yeah, unlimited netflix like it's it's not about life. I I could I, I could take that. Yeah, it's not bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I'm also sure if that's all you did, it wouldn't feel as rewarding.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure, for sure yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a time and place for everything.
Speaker 1:You mentioned something that I was really interested in. Um, I picked up the same thing from cam. Like cam spends an egregious amount of time in the gym. Like the way he talks about being in the gym blew my mind and I think I've mentioned it on like every podcast, just because, like I was just astounded, do you? And you had said something as well, where you know I can. If I can cut this short, I can go spend time in the gym. How many days a week are you, are you in the gym lifting and like how much do you think that's played a giant role in your comeback?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think so much because I think I did not have very much strength before Um, but I spend like um. Like leading into the race season, I was at least three days a week Um, and now it's a little tricky with racing Cause they're like, oh, don't have a lift two weeks before a competition um, because your muscles need to recover um, but I still try. I think, just because I'm also still a year out, I still kind of compromise my racing by hitting the gym maybe a little close, because I don't want to lose it um, but yeah, I'd say at least three times a week for maybe an hour. Sometimes, third, only 30 minutes. Like I feel like you can actually get quite a lot done and be pretty sore in 30 minutes, but I would say, yeah, anywhere from like two to three hours a week Um, and it's. It's actually interesting too.
Speaker 2:We've had some interesting discussions as a team about this Um, but I think in the U S. So I coach with Megan Roach Um and I think a lot of coaches in the U S always cause I. I was like, how do I add this into my training, like what's the most productive, and I think a lot of coaches recommend um, doing strength days on like workout days, um, and then keeping recovery days like recovery, and um, after, like, uh, grace, actually, who's on the team? She's got some good friends that are on the swiss team and just telling us how they train and they actually will prioritize strength. It sounds like like that'll be their first workout of the day.
Speaker 2:All energies go towards that. And then an hour of easy cardio in the afternoon, or maybe more than an hour, but like easy cardio after. So it's definitely made me curious to maybe play with that, or I mean, I don't, I don't know. It's just interesting that I think there's so many different ways to do it, but I I can definitely see the Swiss approach of all benefits from the gym, because, for I know, for me, if I go do a workout in the morning and hit the gym by the afternoon, like, like, usually I only have so much energy left, yeah, yeah, yeah, or especially like, because I'll do tuesday, thursday, I'll do workout and gym, and then endurance day on saturday and usually hit the gym after that.
Speaker 2:But that's actually like after endurance days for sure. I'm like, yeah, I don't have that much less of a gym. So, like I do, I do think it's an interesting idea, maybe playing with that and I don't know, like maybe Schemo, there's something about really prioritizing, prioritizing the gym, doing less like volume. Yeah. So, and I do think at altitude it wouldn't hurt, because our aerobic capacity is probably pretty good up here, but our speed and power might be like lessened because of living up here.
Speaker 1:That's correct. Yeah, I mean it's. It's a very interesting conversation, I ask. I've asked a ton of people about this and I can't get. It's hard for me to get a direct answer. Like I, literally I just suggested Macaulay on the podcast and he said the same thing to me Like he does his, he'll do his speed days. Uh, because he's coached by david norris, who's obviously a former um nordic skier, and one of the things that they, he recommended, was doing your workouts, like your, your strength work, after or before, like basically in the same day that you're doing your, your um, your speed work, um, yeah, it's like, what is the like why I'm just so curious to that because I've kind of adopted that and I've been doing it, but I'm pooped every time I do it because I'm like this is this is horrible, this is so hard I know, I don't know, yeah, and you feel like why, like on a wednesday, when I have an easy hour recovery job, doesn't it make more sense to do it?
Speaker 2:but I, I guess I get it in the sense of like working hard, having a recovery day, working hard, like yeah, and I think, like I think when I was just running more, I think it was easier to just like maybe like train in zone three and just like kind of push, always like aiming for numbers again in volume. But I think with schema I've really realized you like for me to show up and have a strong workout, like I need the easy hour job the day before, like I cannot usually like doing it two days in a row is actually quite exhausting, yeah no.
Speaker 2:No, and my legs just don't have the power yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, I mean same thing for you for running speed. Same exact thing. Like if you can't do two work. I mean, if you do do two workouts in a row one's trash, yeah A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:By the time you get to the third day, you're you're going to need an easy day Cause it's it's probably not even healthy to do that to begin with. But like, yeah, I don't, I don't know it's, yeah, I don't know, I've I've been. The reason I ask is because I have been playing with it. I usually do. I range anywhere from one to three days in, uh, you know, in a week in the gym and, like I don't know, I've found a lot of success. Monday is my off day and I've found a lot of success just doing my biggest, heaviest lift of the week on my off day, on Monday, and then doing my smaller um, you know, my smaller lift on like Wednesday, when that's an easier day, whereas like.
Speaker 1:Tuesday, tuesday, thursday or speed speed workouts, and it's like when I do them on like Tuesday, Thursday, after my speed workouts, I'm dead, like, I'm just like I. By the time I get to Saturday, which is like when I try to do a hill day, I don't have this, the power that I would want to, um, because I'm so destroyed from earlier in the week.
Speaker 2:you know it's, it's uh I know, but then if you do it on like a monday, on a rest day, do you not feel like that kind of it's like the gate? To the rest, right, yeah, yeah you show up tuesday and you're like actually I have lead legs yeah, it depends on what I do.
Speaker 1:And this actually gets to the question that I was going to ask you was like what do you? What are you doing, like for speed and power? Are you doing a bunch of like heavier Olympic lifts, like squats and deadlifts? Like, what do you do?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I, I like to say I am, um, I'm.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like I'm super strong with the heavy stuff and I kind of like if I squat too heavy it actually irritates my low, like my SI joint, but I do heavy lifting, like squats and deadlifts.
Speaker 2:I actually my friend, who is a physical therapist here in town like wrote me like a schema build, I think, maybe based on uphill athlete, and he's just, he's smart, he was a power lifter actually, um, so I really trusted him and so I think that plan, like I do think a lot of the heavier lifting happens in like the late summer, early fall, and then once you start the, you're kind of backing off of that and doing maybe some more explosive movements, more reps, less weight. But yeah, like late summer and fall, like I think one day a week was like 80% max with like three to five reps squats, deadlifts and kind of just mixing up those numbers every week. And then the second workout of the week was usually um, just yeah, like weighted reps, but not like max anything, um, and then I think as the season approaches, it was more like weighted vest, uphill, um, box steps up, step ups into jump lunges. I think I my biggest workout of those, like I did 400 on each leg.
Speaker 1:it was heinous, oh my god yeah, it was like so.
Speaker 2:So single leg box step up, yeah, on each side 10 times and then into 10 split squat jumps, so 20 total 10 times for a set.
Speaker 2:That's that four times and for people that are listening this that have never done that, that is so hard like I I yeah, my quads would be screaming from that yeah, and it was actually interesting because it was so the first week was two sets, the third week was three of, the fourth was four and I actually hurt more on the two set week, but I think I was pretty well adapted by the time. It doubled for some reason, because the first one was like way more painful and I only did 200.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's brutal. I do a lot of boxes, step ups on the box. Um, yeah, and I man, I hate it, it never gets easy. I guess it gets a little easier over time, but like, I'll do like sets of like two or three minutes, or sometimes like four or five minutes on them, um, try not to bounce off, but just like stepping down, stepping back up, and it's like man, like my legs get so filled with, uh, I don't know, I guess lactate or just they get tired.
Speaker 2:Like it's like, oh my God, like this is crazy, so yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hard since integrating more of that stuff, like when I started ski most season, I definitely can speak to feeling more muscle recruitment in each step. Yep, like I think it used to be such a quad centric sport for me and now I'm like, oh, I can feel like all the different, like my hamstrings, my glutes, like so much more of my entire leg activating than I probably did last year, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I can definitely agree to that, Like it's helped my stride open up and like I feel just more power in my steps. A lot of times where I'll see it is on the incline, Like I have the incline in my backyard the Manitou incline.
Speaker 1:You know, like the Manitou incline is really easy until you get to this like section called the steeps. And the steeps are like it's especially for a shorter person like I'm only five, six, so like to step up and like recruit your muscles to like step up into some of those movements. It's like damn this is really hard for a short person.
Speaker 1:It's kind of funny um but like I just will feel so much stronger on those and the step ups is what gives me I what I think other than like the lifts will give give me, and then in speed I just have more, I don't know. I feel like I have more direct foot placement. I feel stronger in my steps, like it's just I don't know. I feel like that stuff like really matters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it does, and I think it does seem like the coaches are starting to really also recommend it more, like they don't put it in their training plans, but I think it seems like they speak more to using, like runner, specific strength, like I just think it makes such a difference. Um, yeah, and I also think like for the longest time, I was super adverse to wanting to do like heavier reps, so I was like I don't need to like build muscle, yeah, but I really think that is important now yeah no 100 it's.
Speaker 1:It's very like I I don't know like I used to have all these issues with, like hip flexors and stuff like that being super tight and like all these problems, um, like unnecessarily, like lower back problems, and I would ask myself like, well, like I, you know, I'm doing everything right except for lifting heavier and doing certain plyo movements, and as soon as I started applying certain things like it totally cleared that stuff up. So do you do a lot of plyo stuff as well, like plyometric movements?
Speaker 2:I would say I use like, not like. Maybe I should, I don't know. No, I don't. I think I kind of was moving into that in PT, but then the race season started and I stopped going. But yeah, not so much, to be honest.
Speaker 1:The single leg stuff is crazy. Yeah, it's hard yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think it is interesting. Like I do feel like for most athletes, we all kind of wing strength, or it's like hard to find like some good guidance of like what exactly we should be doing and how much. Um, I do think I learned a lot from physical therapy, but yeah, I don't, I don't know. I that's a constant question. I'm always like asking different people on the team, like, what do you do for strength? Like him, what do you do? How much like, like, do like, because like there's also some people like Haley, like I don't think she does any strength but, she's super fast interesting no.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you know who Haley is.
Speaker 1:She got second at the Pikes Ascent yeah, she's a beast, that's, and you know that's really something I have to get on the podcast. I forgot all about that. She dude, she must call alley.
Speaker 2:She came very close to catching alley, yeah she was like 30 seconds or less behind her. Um, yeah, and she is so interesting, I call her 6, 30 pace, 10 minute my or 10 mile every day.
Speaker 1:Girl, some people can do that I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she doesn't have a coach um, she like I think maybe she follows like marathon training plans and she's, um she's been like. I know some of like a lot of her goals are more in like marathon training, um, and she's pretty new to trail but she's got such an aerobic engine Like she's a very strong climber, um. But yeah, from what I know, she doesn't go to the gym at all that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Some people, you know, it's crazy to me too, cause, like, I'll meet people that like don't like, for instance, like've had joe gray in the podcast and he spends a lot less time in the gym than I thought he did and he runs yeah, I don't know 17 something or yeah, I think it's like 17 something on the incline, and the incline to me is yes, run, economy power yes, power run economy vo2 max and a shitload of power and strength, right like and it's like you would?
Speaker 1:yeah, that would translate and I guess, from being a steeple or his whole, like you know, in his formative years he just has a lot of power and strength in his legs. Like some people just, yeah, some people just have it. I don't know Like I. I feel like cause, if I don't train like heavy, like for power, like I will lose it after a while, you know, like you don't retain it, at least.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm honestly curious for myself if that's what's helped me kind of be where I'm at racing SEMA this season, because I obviously didn't have time to build a vague aerobic base at all this summer, um, but I think the gym work, like I'm I I'm super excited for next, like I'm excited for this schema season, of course, but I'm excited to have another summer to be able to build an aerobic base and continue with the strength and see what kind of progress I can get through. Like both, because I think I'm super lucky to be where I'm at because I was missing strength previously. Um, but yeah, both combined I'm sure are important so it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, it's. It's interesting how it plays into just progressing and getting better. Um, yeah, all right, so we're almost an hour, so I want to I'm very curious to ask you the goal question, like what are your goals for for this year with us, like, how, how does that play? Cause I know everybody's trying to you know jockey to get the U S a spot but, more or less is. It's only one male, one woman that gets selected. Correct For the for the um mixed relay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not sure if they'll have alternates, like I kind of maybe I'm missing something, but you think they would. But yeah, it's one male, one female, um, you know, I think we'd all love to be the top female, um, and that's definitely the goal. I feel like I'm on a little bit of an emotional roller coaster because I raced so well at nationals, like I surprised myself, I, yeah, I had the fastest female time in the relay, like I was partnered with David Sinclair and we didn't we didn't win, but they took our splits individually and I did have the strongest time. But then I, on this trip, I was like throwing down the last American female results, um, but, but I was like like the first really, I did in Andorra. I was like I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:My body just felt like lead and one of Milan was watching me.
Speaker 2:He works, he's kind of comes over and coaches I. He was like you looked like you were moving half speed and I was like I felt like I was moving half speed and that's as fast as I could go, um, and then the next morning I woke up with a sore throat and I think we all got COVID, um, so I think it was that, but it's hard for me to not like to be like oh, that's not just you now, I guess. Yeah, um, like, will I be able to race again Like I did at nationals? Um, cause then the next weekend I was actually I actually hayley and I both just seemed to have extremely poor luck. Um, I feel like we both threw down really fast climbs in the first half of the relay, but we both also had some pretty bad gear errors on this trip, um, which kind of knocked us down because usa schema was actually giving funding to the top two men, top two women, okay, and we really both were like we got this, um, but we both neither of us got it oh man.
Speaker 1:Hey, by the way, I'm really sorry if you hear noise in the background. I have a contractor. We have a contractor downstairs and he's like cutting my wall in half right now and it's making so much noise. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I was like I hope that's not me, I don't know, no no, no, I'm sorry, you hear that, damn it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, I feel like if I went into the other room and closed the door it wouldn't hear it, but anyway, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Back to what we were talking about yeah, um, but yeah, so I think I do and I think, like we're lucky this year we have Oscar, who is a coach USA Schemo hired and I think it's super helpful having him on the ground watching us, watching our potential, because I think our objective results like for people that are involved on the board, if they were like oh, wow, wow, gordon heli really didn't do too well in those races, like they didn't like see us being sick or they didn't like they, they just see the results right.
Speaker 2:But I think having our coach, oscar I don't know like I it gives me some confidence because I think he can see the potential um more than just like what actually happens. Um, but also, that is a relay for you. It is like gear management mistakes, like like there's just so much going into the relay that it's not just a pure fitness test. I think, like Haley and I definitely throw down some of the fastest uphill times Haley's always just a bit ahead of me, um, but we both seem to yeah, I don't know Like we both had a skin failure in the relay on this trip and it was pathetic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think people realize how technical of a sport it is, like it's not like running with tennis shoes. It's a completely different ball game. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know what I think, that's what I'm finding so much fun with it, like I actually just listened to a podcast about biathlon and I feel like schemo is kind of similar, because the girl was talking about like taking the gun on and off your back. Like you have to nail that movement, otherwise that's five, ten seconds or yeah, like five people moving past you, and so now there's kind of standards of how long each transition should take. There's like just no room for error, really, um, and it does make it super exciting too.
Speaker 1:Do you practice transitions like on dry land? Are you just like messing around?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, really there was a group of us um that would practice at the frisco norweg center all summer in the grass oh wow, um, yeah, and then yeah, inside for sure, um, and then a way that a lot of us integrate it in is like on workout days, like if you're doing intervals, you do a transition. Like like if you have like a minute recovery between, like you do a transition in that minute, um, because that kind of mimics the race, where you're like you're out of breath, you're kind of wobbly, um, I feel like that's a really good time to be practicing them. But yeah, I mean oscar, our coach once was practicing him 30 minutes every single day, which is super. Like I was just texting a friend about this. Like there's like this sport is a freaking full-time job because it's like you need to get like cardio and endurance training.
Speaker 1:You should be skiing downhill a few times a week and you know, mastering that, the transitions and skills, and then the gym, so it's like literally, you could be doing like two kind of activities a day, like you think you could always do more yeah, yeah, it's crazy too, and I feel like with skiing too, it's one of those things where like because I mean it's low impact, right, like you're not, it would be very easy to like over train, because you're just there's so much like you could literally spend all day doing it.
Speaker 2:You know, it's kind of crazy yeah, well, and I was actually chatting with cam about that and I think you know it wouldn't be the worst training to do that. But I think with the focusing on the sprint and the relay, yeah there there's no need to get that kind of insane volume. And I think, like cam was saying in the early days, that was kind of what was what he did and like what everyone did like go get all this insane amount of like vertical volume, um, but I don't think that's really important, like I think 90 minutes on at the mountain is like enough for most.
Speaker 1:Yeah let me ask you this. I'm actually. That brings up an interesting question like for your intervals and stuff like that, are you all heart rate based? Are you constantly watching, like I need to be you know x amount of time in zone four, or is it on feel Like, what is that? Like training for something like that?
Speaker 2:I'm sloppy we all are I don't, I don't have a heart rate monitor. I kind of like I don't know, like maybe I should, maybe Megan wants me to. I feel like in the training plan I'm like, well, okay, actually let me defend myself. I feel like in Leadville you're either trying hard or you're not. There's like two, there's two efforts up here which also maybe I'm doing it all wrong, um, um. But yeah, I guess she will say I'm going all off the else. She will say in the training plan, like do these intervals at like an hour effort? Um, and then I essentially do like strides, but on skis, one day a week, like 30 second strides and those are actually like really hard.
Speaker 1:I think, um, like 30 second efforts or even 15 second efforts on skis are actually like really hard oh, I'm sure, yeah, that's not yeah it's not fun, yeah yeah, and like uphill stuff too, like that's got to be a pain in the neck at 10 000 feet, like trying to do intervals. That's horrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but it's actually interesting though, because I do think it's. It has made me realize it's so much more of a power sport because, like, of course, I get super winded and out of breath, but I almost feel like it's your legs just always trying to hold on. Yeah, for me at least that's fair yeah, what a sport, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so much fun and like yeah, I was no finish, I'm sorry, sorry oh, I was gonna say like, like you said, the no impact thing I think that's also what makes it such great training and enjoyable is, like you like moving more from running to this. I'm like, wow, I actually feel good, like I don't just feel beat up all the time.
Speaker 1:That's actually really nice yeah, it's funny, I do it for like ever I just turned 34 a few weeks ago or last week, and I was joking with my buddy. I'm like dude. I mean, yeah, like training has gotten like I've upped training a lot for this season, I'm starting to get into that phase now of things. But I'm like dude, I am not in pain, but I am sore all the time. I'm so tired of it.
Speaker 2:I'm tired too. I gotta eat more.
Speaker 1:And I'm like this this sucks, but I love it. You know it's like. It's like the give and take. You know it's like I wouldn't rather be doing anything else other than that Um yeah, it would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't get away with like what you did in your twenties. You're like I actually hurt more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh my I I'm like how did I ever do this, like you know?
Speaker 2:and now I'm like really like, focusing on like for the first time. I guess I'm getting old with wisdom and like focusing on recovery.
Speaker 1:Like you know, yeah, eating like super correctly and uh, yeah, it's yeah getting old, yeah, a lot of fans yeah, I know this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I had this boss. Briefly, that would be like is there something wrong with you like that? You need like nine hours of sleep and I was like no, like nine barely gets me through the day yeah, same same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because you have to train. It's a high level, you have to sleep yeah yeah, and it's like yeah again.
Speaker 2:Like talk about time. It's like, okay, I need like 10 hours of sleep, I need my like multiple hours to train during the day and somehow you need to work a job in there. What?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's so hard one of my, one of my best friends, uh was almost an olympian swimmer. He swam the 400.
Speaker 1:I am in college and uh I was joking with him the other day because like he, uh, he's like living a completely different life now. He's married with kids, he works an office job and hasn't swam in 10 years. And we were joking because now it's flip-flopped. We're like I just partied in college and wasn't an athlete, and now it's flip-flopped where I'm an athlete, and he asked me he's like what do you do all day? I'm like dude, I gotta be honest with you. I spend like five hours a day Like like I, I because I work from home, so I'll like you know, if nothing if nothing's going on.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hop on the bike or I'm going to go hit the gym or go for a run and like he's like dude, I envy you. He's like I, you have such a nice life. So, yeah it's, it's funny how you know different phases of your life, things that you're excited about, and yeah, I wouldn't rather be doing anything else. Like it's, I'd go crazy if I was stagnant and like wouldn't be able to go move and you know, do things.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I know it feels like it gives you some like for me at least so much purpose of like showing up in other, like aspects of life, like just motivation to work. You're like well, I have to work so I can like go to europe and do this right. It's like it just like makes yeah, it just like makes everything better. I think it's true.
Speaker 1:No it's definitely true. Who inspires you?
Speaker 2:oh, oh man, I mean, like all the european girls, I was like I just feel like just seeing, yeah, I guess I should be more specific, but I think it's really cool to watch these races in Europe and just watch how talented these athletes are. They're just flawless and it's like, yeah, I'm like okay, that's inspiring. I definitely have things to work on to also get there one day and yeah, I want to. So, um, but yeah, sorry, that's like not a very specific. No, it's a good one. It's a good.
Speaker 1:I was gonna I was just gonna ask you because I never asked cam this and you know it's like different from a trail running perspective, because I feel like the americans and trail running have really closed the gap in a lot of ways. Like we beat up on the europeans sometimes and now that we finally got, you know, the women always win utmb, which is awesome. Um, yeah, that said, like what is the level, like stepping up from like, say, an america because like schema was not a huge thing in america, it's going to be yeah, yeah, and it's growing yeah, but what is that?
Speaker 2:like that level step up, like when you go to race, because obviously like our guys and gals can hang, like we do well, yeah relatively speaking yeah, I mean the world, yeah, I mean I think I remember cam saying this too but like at the world cup, again, like you misstep and five people shoot past you, um, but yeah, I guess. For example, um, well, now I can't remember, like it's. It's kind of funny because, like in the us, you go from like I don't know like almost expecting to podium at any race to in Schemo, especially being on the national team, um, to like going to the world cup and being like wow, 50th place, cool, um, but then also like kind of seeing the progress from there, um and um, I think, for this being my second season, it's cool because like it's easier to identify it in a vertical for me. But like you can be like, okay, I'm usually in this pack of like these French girls, these Spanish girls, like I kind of know like there's just such a you know, every second counts, especially in a vertical over there that it's like on any given day, like this French girl would pass me or I would pass her, um, but yeah, we're always within like seconds on a max effort. So, yeah, I think you just have to get used to like being happy and proud of like the really like the seconds and just just even showing up to a world cup, and it is such a special experience.
Speaker 2:Like it's just such a scene over there and you know, so fast, so competitive, so nerve-wracking, um, but yeah, like you're you're just gonna get your butt whooped and like that's what happens, um, so you just have to expect it. Yeah, but again, like the men are doing great, like him and griff and you know arthur ian had some really good results this year um, or he just showed up to the sprint and did really well, kind of out of nowhere, or maybe it wasn't out of nowhere, um, but yeah, I think what did you?
Speaker 1:what was it like being partner with David Sinclair Cause, like on the trail running scene, like David's?
Speaker 2:peers, he's an animal, he's a God.
Speaker 2:Okay, like David Sinclair is a, it's a literal guy in schema, like once he can dial his like the tech, like he definitely has, you know, he's just new, like there's nothing against him. Like I think each year we, we all, make so much improvement on the technical side of the sport and it just it just takes time and repetition and like racing some world cups. But I kind of think once david files that like yeah, he's kind of an animal, well I think that guy will just like pull something out of nowhere and make it happen. But I also kind of think that about like cam and griff and yeah, yeah I mean griffin for being so young.
Speaker 1:Griffin is like the future you know, in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what's so funny about him? He's I love it's. He definitely like embodies the slowest and smoothest. Fast, like when you watch him transition, he like he's kind of slow and kind of like you're like not slow. He just doesn't look like. He's like flailing and panicking. He just like every movement is so intentional. He's just so smooth. It's cool to watch.
Speaker 1:He's got to be 19 years old, if he, if that he's like, got it, he's so young I think he's in that range. I raced him at cirque series brighton, and I was amazed. He's a very talented athlete, like extremely talented yeah yeah yeah, yeah, no, he's.
Speaker 2:I think he's spoken about his like, um, like he just has like really high heart rate zones, um, or I don't. I don't know, maybe it's like trained, maybe it's genetic, I don't know oh really, damn makes sense. Yeah, it's a freak yeah, yeah, he kind of is. I'm like do you just like go out and like train like something like we're not all seeing, like are you just like putting in so much work, or.
Speaker 1:But he might be or did you come out of the box like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. Do you have more atp than all of us? I don't. Or mitochondria? I don't know. That's funny, is it genetic?
Speaker 1:we don't know. Interesting, that's super cool. Yeah, what's your uh, so pre-race, whether it's a schema race or a trail running race, like what's your pump up song? Like what's it? What's what's the song you're listening to?
Speaker 2:um well, there's some. Megan the stallion okay, okay um, yeah, I just like tell, yeah, I don't know some like fronty music. I guess I don't know. I'm actually not the biggest music person, but once in a while I like the bad bitch mood. Um, yeah, but I wouldn't. But, yeah, I guess I don't always use music. To be honest, like I actually don't really train with music, I'm more of an audiobook or podcast stream. Okay, yeah, yeah that's impressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like on a speed work day, like if, especially if it's cold like, oh yeah, I'm putting on earphones and I'm going on the treadmill like or on the track, but like, yeah, there's no way I'm not listening to music on a on a speed day usually.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just think books and podcasts like are a little more engaging for me. Um, my interest, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So I got one. I'm trying to think of what goofy question. I usually ask something of a mix of like UFOs, aliens or AI. I think for you I'm going to go with uh, uh, with the Bigfoot question Like what's your especially cause? You live in Leadville, uh what's what's your take on Bigfoot?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I mean if I would have like if I saw something to make me believe I would be, but I've not seen any traces of bigfoot yet that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1:I get that a lot you know, it's usually aliens the well, the aliens, yeah, yeah, I don't know it's, uh, I don't know. I feel like the night sky in leadville is one of the most I can remember. I paced a buddy at Leadville a couple years ago.
Speaker 1:And we were going over the power line climb and it was like 2 in the morning and I look up and I was astounded Because I live in Colorado Springs and we have more or less light pollution here, so you don't see the stars as well. But in Leadville, like oh, dear Lord, but on ludville, like oh, dear lord, like you see the stars, it is astounding.
Speaker 2:I was like oh my god I'm looking around for like satellites and aliens and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's. It's really cool up here, I know, and we're not even a night sky night. What do they call it dark?
Speaker 1:sky, dark sky, yeah, which is crazy community yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is pretty, it's. I love skiing under like. Yeah, like sometimes you can just go under a full moon and don't need a headlamp. Well, actually I did that last year, more so than this year. I'm like I can't get injured again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't get injured, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to ski in the pitch black, yeah. No more for me, ill-advised.
Speaker 1:Well, gwen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is an amazing conversation, uh, I absolutely want to wish you the best of luck, especially as you transition to move out to uh, to europe for the rest of the winter. So good luck racing and have an amazing rest of your season, and we'll be rooting for you yeah, thank you so much and, yeah, thanks for having me yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode. I want to thank gwen so much for coming on the podcast. I mean I left that conversation just so inspired. Like one of my favorite things in life is watching people just like go chase big goals and chase their dreams. And you know, it's just such an inspiring story to see her just like relocate out to europe and go chase some big goals and just watch, like even like all the athletes in this you know schemo cycle, trying to um, just create opportunities for themselves and kind of see where you know this could potentially land with, uh, you know several of our athletes that we know on the podcast, uh, you know ending up in the olympics, like cam smith, maybe david sinclair, gwen, um griffin briley, who knows like so many interesting folks um, vying for for these coveted spots, should this become a thing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, before we get going, hop on Instagram. Let's get Gwen some followers. You can find her at Gwen underscore Rudy. That's Gwen underscore Rudy on Instagram. Yeah, if you guys happen to be on Instagram as well, give us a follow on the Steep Stuff podcast. You can find us at Steep Stuff underscore pod. We'd appreciate that, as I'm trying to grow that follower base on the Steep Stuff Instagram. There's a lot of good value there and some cool stuff you guys will find in connection to our Instagram account, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So, last but not least, one more ask If you guys wouldn't mind giving us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would mean the absolute world to me. That's how we can continue to follow this great sport and tell these amazing stories of these athletes that are just out there crushing and chasing their dreams and goals, which is all you could ask for. Yeah, that's all I got. One more, actually. One last thing. It's not all I got. Um, yeah, that's all I got. One more, actually. One last thing, it's not all I got, uh. Two last things. One is keep an eye out for tomorrow or friday. I haven't decided when I'm going to drop it yet. Um, still haven't recorded it, so I just kind of it's a matter of when I edit it. Um, but we are going to be doing a race preview episode for the big alta. Um, my boy, mr nick toose, is going to be joining me on the podcast. Um, and we are going to be doing a preview episode for the big Alta, breaking down the 50K and 20 AK with some household names that are going to be there. It's kind of the first, one of the big, first sub ultra barn burner races that's going to be popping up on the calendar for this year. So we're going to knock the rust off and do a little race preview episode and talk about the storylines around that race, because there's some, there's some high stakes going into it, which will be pretty fun. What else do I have for you? Oh yeah, june 20, or sorry, not June, jesus Christ, what is it? March 29th Saturday I'm a little tired.
Speaker 1:Saturday, march 29th, at 8am, we are going to be doing our one year, our very exciting one year podcast. It's going to be super fun. It's going to be a live podcast from the Colorado Running Company in Colorado Springs. We're going to be joined by Bailey Kowalczyk. My sponsor, ultimate Direction, is going to be there to provide live refreshments. We're going to be doing giveaways. We're going to be talking about some of the new products, including the Ultimate Direction Ultra 12 liter and race six liter vest that just dropped, which is super fun. In addition, nike Trail is going to be there to demo two different pairs of shoes, which is going to be sick.
Speaker 1:One of my potential new partners, cetus, is going to be sending some product as well to give away. So first 10 to 20 people through the door there we're going to be giving away some free Cetus products, which is going to be awesome. Yeah, lots of good stuff, lots of free giveaways and, yeah, just an opportunity for the community to be there and just have some excitement around it. So hope to see you guys there. Yeah, keep an eye out for episodes dropping Thursday and Friday. Enjoy yourself. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thank you.
