The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#82 - Johen DeLeon
Joan DeLeon's path to becoming one of trail running's most exciting talents defies conventional narratives. From the concrete streets of Waco, Texas, to stunning the mountain running world by beating Joe Gray at A-Basin, his journey combines raw talent with refreshing authenticity.
Growing up without mountains or trails, DeLeon's running foundation came through summer track programs where Baylor University athletes served as mentors. This early exposure to quality coaching propelled him to collegiate success, but his introduction to mountain running came almost by accident when college teammate Cade Michael convinced him to visit Colorado's Gunnison Valley after graduation.
What began as a temporary stay evolved into five transformative years in one of America's mountain running epicenters. DeLeon speaks candidly about discovering a completely different relationship with running in the mountains – one characterized by freedom and exploration rather than oval tracks. This new environment rekindled his love for the sport after collegiate burnout.
The trail running community embraced DeLeon after his breakthrough performance at Cirque Series A-Basin, rallying through a GoFundMe to send him to Golden Trail Series races. This experience opened his eyes to the global mountain running scene, inspiring a more structured approach to training under the guidance of the Hemmings coaching team and leading to his new partnership with Satisfy Running.
Looking toward 2025, DeLeon balances ambitious competitive goals—including the US Mountain Running Championships at Sunapee—with genuine appreciation for the journey. His competitive philosophy combines fierce determination with perspective: "We're all friends, but when we step on the line, my job is to destroy you."
Ready to witness the next chapter in this remarkable story? Follow Joan's 2025 season as he continues to redefine what's possible for a kid from the concrete jungle.
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What's up, guys? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello. Guys, I've got another banger episode for you. This week We've been rolling them out. It's been just a crazy week. So excited to roll them out for our one-year anniversary and just get you guys some super quality episodes. Guys, I'm bringing you today the man, the myth, the legend, mr Joan DeLeon. I have been so excited.
Speaker 1:I've been trying to get this conversation going with Joan since I had Kate on the podcast and since, really, joan showed up to a basin last year and whoops him ass. I absolutely love the style and attitude of this kid, like he's one of my, like, favorite people in the sport now and just after one conversation like it just a genuinely cool human. Like I said, joan probably is best known for last year showing up to Cirque Series A Basin and getting second place and beating some really heavy hitters in our sport of sub ultra. But even more so, I think Joan's more well known for just being a really kind, caring and awesome human in his community, just like what he's done for his community and the people around him. To sing his praises. Yeah, he's just a really inspiring, really cool guy. We talked a lot we talked about when we had this conversation. He was just getting ready for Big Alta. He actually just took third place in the 28K this past weekend at the Big Alta, which is pretty exciting, so the fitness is definitely showing there. We talked about. He rolled out the idea of his new Satisfy deal which is pretty exciting which was just dropped and unveiled last week as well. It was a great episode, really fun just getting to know Joe and just having a sweet conversation with them. How can you not root for somebody like this? Like I said, just one of the most genuine people I think I've ever had on the podcast, a really cool guy. So hope you enjoy. This one Definitely mattered and meant a lot to me and I'm so excited for where Joanne's future is going to take them. So, without further ado, joanne DeLeon, thank you.
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Speaker 2:Good man, Just chilling, enjoying life, Good know good vibes going on right now, so you know, just enjoying the day.
Speaker 1:How's your day going, man?
Speaker 2:It's going good, man. I uh like got up, you know, like slow morning Cause it's my day off, but uh, we've been having some, like recently, good snow and so kind of just been getting some pow turns in, which is really really sick. You know, I'm kind of like starting to chill on the skiing now that running is ramping up, but, like you know, when it's snowing man, I gotta get out there, you know.
Speaker 1:So this is a good day are you, uh, do you do like more schema? Or are you a backcountry guy like, what's your, what's your style of ski?
Speaker 2:um, so I like I tore a little bit. Um, I don't have like the craziest avi education, you know. Um, I did a lot of like I mean actually it's kind of funny enough. I actually taught myself how to ski by doing uphill, so like I wouldn't consider myself like a schema guy. But you know I do the uphill every now and then and then do that around, but mostly just hit the hill like downhill. You know, like a lot of my homies at work are really really really good skiers, so you know it's like it's always a cool opportunity and just to get out there with them as much as I can, so kind of just enjoy it yeah, man, what's it like living in like the cresta butte area with all those like I mean cams in that area, like there's so many like world-class skiers and just mountain athletes in general?
Speaker 2:you, you know it's actually crazy because like there's like the people that stick around in the valley that are so long, for example, like the Grand Traverse, like obviously it's like a known race that's here, and like those old heads that have been doing it for since the first one, you know, like they had this crazy, just like crazy mountain culture, and these folks just kind of like live on the skis, you know, you know in the backcountry, you know, and and they do their thing.
Speaker 2:So there's always like there's some crazy hammerheads out here, like obviously there's cam, but there's a lot of other like low-key dudes, you know, that even go to western, that are on the ski mode team, that are really, really nice with it. You know. So in the wintertime it's like it's crazy because you go to the base area where we have our little uphill skin track and like there's, you see people of all ages, of all skill levels, just like hammering like all the time and it's kind of like it's actually it's very inspiring to see man, you know, and it kind of motivates you a lot.
Speaker 1:So it's very cool dude, there's nothing better than like seeing like just everybody getting after it right from a community perspective, because it just kind of yeah, it gives you the the it like, puts the wind in the sails to like train harder and improve Right, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Dude, it pushes you man. You know, like a lot of people, um, and honestly like a lot of people kind of like they feed off each other. You know, especially like here, you know, cause in the winter time it could be it gets really brutal. Here, you know, it gets like crazy cold, like we're usually like the second coldest place like in the country besides like Duluth, minnesota or something you know. So the community kind of like in the in the in the winter time really just kind of comes together and kind of gets after it, because a lot of the people are really kind of like basically organically training for the GT, you know, and they kind of just are just getting after it every day. So it's a really cool like community kind of just to be around and it's really motivating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's beautiful, we'll get. We'll get more to it, I think I think for starters, let's get into your story. Like I want to talk about you. I mean, dude, last year it was Cirque series, a basin like you. You you went and beat the greatest trail runner of all time and Joe gray, and then, like you beat, you beat a lot of dudes. Like you showed up and shocked the hell out of people. Obviously dylan dylan noticed it. You were on free trail and then, you know, there was this like groundswell to kind of get you to some of these other ground or golden trail series races and like kind of put you on the map. That's how I I found out about you. Um, obviously a lot of people from the Gunnison Valley, and Cade Michael as well, sing your praises and were like you have to have Joe and Dillian on the podcast. But, dude, I'm just so curious. I want to hear about your story. Man, talk to me about growing up in Texas, your relationship with running and how you ended up in the greater Crested Butte area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. So I kind of like, I mean organically, I've kind of always been really really running, you know, and um, it's always been like a thing, like just a thing to do, like even when you play soccer. You play, like in Texas growing up, like you play every sport, you know. And then, but one of those is like is summer track. You know, like, no matter what sport you do, whether you're a football player, basketball player, baseball player in the summertime, like you got to do summer track, you know, and it's such a big thing. So I've kind of um, like had some really good, awesome like mentors on my side, because a lot of the coaches in waco, for team waco, the summer track, are the baylor track and field athletes. So they're like, they're like folks that have, they've been there, they've lived, like they live the inner city life like we've that, I've lived, you know, and they. So it was cool like having good role models as a young kid, you know, and I'm shown so, um, and kind of just really stuck with it, like with running, and did it every summer until I was like I think I like at 12 years old, from like being from 6 to 12 and then, uh, and you know, it wasn't until I was like 15 that I started just like to progress really well and running naturally and get to, like you know, made regionals in high school and track and stuff. And then, uh, and my parent, my mom specifically, she was a runner growing up and she was like saw that obviously, saw this ability and then really thought it would be really nice to just like invest more into it and saw that I was willing to be more dedicated to it. And so we like sought after a coach.
Speaker 2:And then I found a coach in high school, a legendary coach named Chris Schrader. And then, you know, and then it was kind of crazy because, you know, no one in my family had really gone to college before. So when I met Chris, he was like you're going to college like for this, you know, and we're going to get paid for it, you know, and that, so that was kind of the thing that really kind of made me just really stick to it and really dial in, even at a young age, you know. Um, and yeah, I was able to just like ball out in high school, did really well, like, won a state championship and stuff, and then was able to get school paid for. And then, um, in college, like had some awesome coaches too and met Cade, my best friend, cade Michael.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, and when I was getting ready to graduate from Texas State it was kind of funny because Cade was a year below me and he was getting ready to um, our coach had left and he was like, oh man, I need to look like he was looking for a new school to go to and, uh, and found Western and, um, I was getting ready to graduate and he was like you know, man, like you don't really want to go back to waco, man, you just come, you should come crash up for a bit and see how it goes. And then kind of, just five, five years later, I'm like still in the valley. So I mean, you know, but, uh, it's kind of crazy the how it all worked out, you know, but I'm very happy how it worked out, you know it's a beautiful place to live, man.
Speaker 1:It's like one of the most beautiful places in the country. You know Crested Butte and Gunnison Valley Like it's. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's a fairy. It's a fairy tale land for sure, man. You know like it's really remote and like me growing up like surrounded by just noise all the time, you know like it's crazy. You like you go to Crested Butte and like people are driving like under the speed limit. You know everyone's taking their time. It's a really cool. No one's in a rush, they're blasting Grateful Dead or something and just kind of really just in their own little world. So it's a really cool, it's a different pace of life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Different pace of life, for sure, man.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about college. Man, I want to dig into your collegiate years, just because I know you had a lot of success there. First of all, what events? Like did you specialize in on the track and like like, get like maybe more into like your experience? Like did you enjoy your experience and like a lot of people really struggle? Uh, it sounds like you were the opposite, like you didn't struggle at all, so maybe talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had um like I kind of did everything from literally like the 800 all the way to the 5k, like if you had an Indian cross country. Obviously you run, you get up to the 10k, you know. But, um, our coach, my coaches are really big about just like being strong, you know, like middle distance runners, you know, and that kind of like gravitates to being like a stronger kind of distance runner and then also being quick on your feet for doing like a little bit like mid-distance stuff. Um, my coaches were really focused on like winning like conference championships and stuff. So, uh, I was never really dialed in on one specific event.
Speaker 2:You know we were running like, you know we were scoring points, so we were really dialed in and running multiple events, um, throughout the year and um, and I was always just like really like a like discipline and stuff like that and really bought into training, no matter who my coach is.
Speaker 2:So I feel like it always like um, I never really had a problem with, like even with different coaches in training and stuff like that, cause I was always really bought in and like very obedient to what was going on. So, and I think that's really that really helped me like have success and very obedient to what was going on. So and I think that really helped me have success, especially later on in college and figuring out and trying to balance school life and stuff. But yeah, man, I kind of just did all types of events, which I think kind of helps now because I enjoy doing longer stuff. But then I also naturally kind of just been from doing the mile all the time and doing 800s and 5K, doing longer stuff. But then I also like naturally kind of just been from doing the mile all the time like and doing 800s and five Ks and stuff, kind of have that natural speed which I'm pretty, I'm pretty blessed you know you have.
Speaker 1:So yeah, just pretty thankful for that. That's crazy man. What a what a cool experience like to be able to like run at such a high level in undergrad. I, I, you, you didn't bury the lead there with kade michael. Uh, kade's a friend of the pod.
Speaker 1:We've had him on before yeah I'm curious what a good guy uh and big shout out. He just got his uh, him and andy just knocked off that that gold hill fkt I think it was today they just announced it was just pretty amazing. But what was your experience in like relationship like with kate, like as your, as your boy, like what was that, like running with him and like I don't know? Like it seems like you guys have a very special like friendship yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So like I, like cave is very like, he's a very disciplined like and very passionate person about like just running in general. You know, I'm saying like when I met him, like you know he he isn't like he was running crazy high mileage and stuff like that, and like he, that was just something he loved man, you know what I'm saying. And I, um, I and I was complete opposite, like I did like lower mileage and was just never a high mileage guy. But uh, from like you know my perspective, I just it was always sick and inspiring to see him kind of just like get after it. You know, just because he loved it for like, for what it was, you know, and um, and even like in college, it was always sick and inspiring to see him kind of just like get after it. You know, just because he loved it for like, for what it was, you know, and um, and even like in college it was sick Cause we would have like in San Marcos we have little trail networks and stuff around and he's and he's not a he's not a poser man when it comes to trails, like he's been, he's been like kind of running trail races and stuff like that, since he was like at a freshman in college and stuff, you know. So he was kind of the original person that really kind of like got me into trying, you know, running different stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, because we um, I mean, I grew up like in a concrete jungle. You know we would train roads, you know, and like and sidewalks and stuff. So, you know, and I never, and if you found a dirt road, you know it was a gold mine. You know. So when I was with k training and stuff, he he had such like a diverse like look at it, when it came to just like picking spots to run and stuff, you know, and I was like not necessarily close-minded about like where I wanted to run, but he was just really open-minded about a lot of like, a lot of stuff and checking out new spots and and stuff and I thought that was like the coolest thing ever because I had never really experienced that.
Speaker 2:You know, like I always saw when we were in track and stuff, like even growing up, like my coach, chris Schrader, was like only allowed us to run on grass, you know. So when I was in high school, I like made a grass loop around like a baseball field and stuff and ran that every day, even though it was a one mile loop. So when I got to college and, like you know, get to hang out with this dude who's running like 120 miles a week, you know obviously he has he's not doing that. You know what I mean. So he's really really cool, really great homie man. You know I'm happy to hear him like and see him do some really big things. You know, because he he works really hard, like you know, he's been working really hard for a very, very long time so he deserves it dude big time.
Speaker 1:Well, you know I can't sing his praises enough, like, whatever brand picks him up over the next year, like fucking really lucky to have him, like I'm excited for, I'm excited for him. Um, let's talk about you, man. Let's talk about the trails. Like, how, like, what turned you on to the trails? I mean, like I like I said the first race that you popped onto the scene for me was A-Basin, but I'm pretty sure you've been putting in a ton of hard work before then. So talk to me about your relationship with the trails and what gets you excited there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I was really burnt out with running, honestly, when I graduated college and when I moved in with Cade at the Western like cross country house, you know, and and it's only because I had, like I had some really hardcore like old school type coaches, like pretty much my whole life, you know, I'm like mentally like, I'm very, I was very kind of like burnt out with it. I'm absolutely like grateful for everything that running has brought into my life and stuff. But, uh, when I moved to gunnison and the whole in the in the valley, like I had no idea what the heck like public land was, or like if, or like you know, open space, like mountains. I didn't know you could go over there, you know, and so so, um, you know, like the community was just insane. So, like I, they quickly informed me that I was able to go run pretty much wherever I wanted, you know, and I and it was a really cool like um, essentially feeling of just being so like free, you know, and being just clear in the mental, you know, and uh, and the one thing about like living at the western cross country house was like, even though I I said I was done with running, like kade never let me like he would. He would never let me not run. You know he'd be like he would actually convince. He would actually convince the Western team to to run the house that we were living in, to pick me up, to take me out off the couch and then go run with him. You know, and like me being like like um, so just like competitive and stuff like that and and uh, just loving the grind.
Speaker 2:You know I would go off for these like once a week 20 mile long runs with kate and then just like put myself through the suffice and uh, and get into that and like through that was just like finding all these beautiful trails, man, you know, and um, it's just like a totally polar opposite thing that I've ever experienced. So like it was just immediately like man, this is sick. You know, I'm not running in ovals all the time and and then, kind of just organically, just really just kept that spark and that love for it and I always like, I think, because running I've been doing running for so long, it's kind of like, kind of just become part of my life instead of me looking at it as like I need to train really, really hard. You know, I think like naturally I'll like train stuff, so, um, that that. Then that translated to like man, let me see how fast I can get up this, you know, bag this peak or you know, or run this this whole route and stuff and uh, and still like I'm still the same way man, I'm still kind of just getting after it.
Speaker 2:I was like, obviously, like a lot of people only saw me at a basin, yeah, you know. But, and for the first time, but like I had been like truly like kind of putting up some some nice times with some peaks and you know, wouldn't really post on strava, always kept it low-key, you know. So people you know wouldn't see it wasn't really about like the attention and stuff. So, and also like I work so much and like having time off and then like paying for race fees and stuff kind of was just like kind of a hassle. So always, just like you know, if I ever made a race appearance, it was pretty rare like I honestly made time, like you know, got time off work. So I always took it pretty seriously if I ever showed up on a start line, you know. So, uh, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Let's. Let's talk about a basin. I didn't want to get too deep into 2024, but like, damn, dude, like, like you know, talk about like beating your heroes in a lot of ways, like it's so interesting to me Cause, like you know, joe's, joe's's mythical creature of a human right, like and there's so many, you know, patrick, like there are so many like world-class world dominators there, and like you're up there in the mix with these guys and like a lot of people was like who is this guy? Like you know, like, obviously, unless they knew who, yeah, yeah like where does this come from?
Speaker 1:out of nowhere? Like um, what was that race? Like what did that mean to you, dude? To like go and, you know, beat the goat. And like just like have like a phenomenal day out there. Like what did that do for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I honestly like didn't. I was originally gonna run, imaging, but then that which was that same day and um, I would have liked that because taylor taylor would have had a little little someone to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually saw taylor.
Speaker 2:I actually saw uh, like not that long after that, and he and I think he, he, he had heard that I was going to go, so he was like, oh man, this should be sick, you know. And but I didn't end up going cause of the they rerouted the course, unfortunately and um, and so I like signed up the night before and like booked it that morning to a basin and um of was just like, like I'm fit, like I've done, like no one obviously knows what my like skill capability is, but I know where I'm at, like I know. And so I was just very and honestly, I just wanted the bag man, like I saw like a thousand dollars for winning and I was like I like, but this would be sick if I just like go after it and try to win it, you know. And then, uh, I kind of like showed up to the starting line and was like, oh man, there's some heavy hitters here, you know. But at the same time, like I've always been told, like you know, no matter, like on any given day, man, anybody can be beaten, you know, like whatever they've done in the past is a really cool thing, but they're not. That's in the past. You know, like today they have to show up and perform.
Speaker 2:You know, so, as soon as the like gun went off, like I was just feeling really really, really good and just really kept like just was really mama mentality. You know, like eyes up just looking who was in front of me and just really getting after it and like me being a predator person, I'm like really bummed, I lost. You know, me being a predator person, I'm really bummed, I lost. But then after finding out who I lost to I don't really do much research until many runners in general, so it was really crazy to get informed after, you know, about, like who was in the race, like you know who I beat and stuff, so and and seeing how like people were super stoked for me, um, like I was, just it was a really, really, really awesome feeling. And uh, and cam smith actually came up to me after the race and was like dude, you just did something, really big man, yeah I don't know if you know.
Speaker 2:He was like I don't know if you know this, but like you did something really big for yourself and like you, this is a lot. This is a big change, it's a big moment for you. You know, like you shouldn't, you should know that. And I'm like, oh, you think so you know. And he's like, yeah, dude, like what do you mean? You know, so it was really. It was really really cool.
Speaker 2:I had like the kind of the training that I had done all summer, um, essentially kind of like perfectly led up to that point. I mean I hadn't, I hadn't really the year. The summer before that I was really I was in gunnison, so I was doing a lot more like single track, like trail running, and it was a little bit more faster. But I moved up to cb um the winter after that summer. So a lot of like this past summer was more of just like bagging peaks and then really kind of like of like this past summer was more of just like bagging peaks and then really kind of like getting faster on the vertical than more of just focusing on the speed.
Speaker 2:So, uh, and that kind of showed when I went to golden shell series, um, which was really humbling and really awesome to experience, you know, to kind of see where the, where the uh, where the standard is, and that's kind of like what I really wanted, really wanted to experience. You know, I had to experience like where, like obviously at a base, and I got to experience, like you know, the Patrick, you know, or Joe, like really hammering the uphill and then hammering the downhill, but those like 18 mile races, uh, I I hadn't really experienced that before, so it was really cool to see that part a couple weeks after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, We'll talk about that in a second. So A-Basin to have Cam Smith. Who's Cam's amazing. He's your favorite runner's favorite runner to me.
Speaker 1:He's an amazing dude but future Olympian probably. For someone like that to come up and be like Yo dude, you just did something huge for your career. I just I don't know. I think it's amazing, like, and just to like think about, like who you beat on that day dude, like there was some dudes out there. So yeah, it's pretty incredible. What was it like to you when Dylan just like I don't know if you were familiar with free trail before Cause like that's like, kind of like I don't want to say the standard in the sport, but like that's the biggest media brand in the sport right now like for dylan to approach you and be like hey, like you know, sing your praises and have you on and like have you talking about the race? Like what was that experience like? Was that a little like surreal for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I hadn't really done much, much like uh digging into like the free trail before then, obviously, like I had heard, I've heard I had heard of it and stuff like that uh, but um, it was pretty cool, man. Like you know you, sometimes you don't really know, like how awesome people are until you have conversation with them and they tell you, like what they've done. You would never even have known that until, like, you've had the conversation with them and uh, so the more I like got to talk to him and you know and learn about, like who he was in the sport, the more I was like man, this is like an actual honor to be like your history man. You know what I mean. Like you know like he's kind of cool because I mean he's, it's kind of cool how he's like he's kind of was in the middle ground between, like back when people were doing ultras with no money, and then he saw he's kind of like was in the transition to seeing where it is now, you know, and this part of his career. So it was a really awesome experience just talking to him like and I honestly I wanted to come up to him before he even introduced me because I had.
Speaker 2:I saw his shoes he had like I later found out they were speed lens and I was like, man, those are gnarly. You know like I need to go figure out what the heck those kicks are. You know like double boa, like what's going on with that, you know. So I like went up to him, was talking to him and uh, and I was like, yeah, these shoes, man, he's like you first off. It's like what's your name? You know like I just saw you kick butt. You know like it's a pleasure to meet you and I was like, oh, thanks, man, you know this is cool. But, um, yeah, very super, super, super cool person. Uh, obviously, he's seen a lot with the sport and you know, and they're doing, they're doing awesome things over there. Man, it's, it's really cool like I like I like what they're doing over there. It's really awesome.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, man, dylan's. Dylan's the standard. Like first ballot hall of famer for as a runner. And then like now, what he's building building is crazy. Uh, where I was leading to that was um, you're headed out this week, you're gonna go race his race, the big alta 28k. You pumped for that man. Like what's? Uh, how's the fitness feeling? Like you ready to go shred it up in california? Yeah, man, you know I'm pretty.
Speaker 2:I was like I was pretty kind of like conflicted on, like um, how training was going, mostly because I never really like ran on a treadmill like that before you know, but that was one of the things that, um, like I knew I had to do, like especially when the temps dropped like to the 20 below is like up here, and so I was, uh, really just like dialed in and really getting after it. But you know, like I've always been iffy about treadmills, I don't, I really don't know why like and really getting after it. But you know, like I've always been iffy about treadmills, I don't, I really don't know why, like I really it's like an awesome tool to train and stuff like that and uh, but had some really awesome weeks these past three weeks, like outside, like doing some really good running, just kind of. Just see where I was at and I'm and I honestly like I'm beyond stoked, you know, um, I know there's going to be like some really heavy hitters up there and it's going to be really competitive. So I'm really stoked to kind of see where the fitness is like right now.
Speaker 2:You know, I know like I don't have to be the fittest right now, you know, but I, because it's a long year man, you know, like I, I have so much respect for people that really get after it and grind and put heavy miles in during the winter time. But I've always just been like, uh, you know, like, I look at it from like the whole year perspective instead of like the first few months. So, um, I'm really stoked man, like I know.
Speaker 2:Actually, when I was in California, I was, uh, I went on a run with Dylan and you know that race like takes place essentially in his backyard. Man, it's like it's insane, you know, and uh, and these crazy, just punchy fire roads, I thought it was like, I thought it was the coolest thing. You know, like 360 views, you see, of, uh, of just the bay, and everything is just really surreal. So I I'm more, I'm super pumped to be out there and see the scenery and stuff like that, but also just like even more stoked to, you know, feed that competitive spirit I have, you know, and hopefully, hopefully, we have a good weekend.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm like manifesting it, you know, oh I love to hear that man, I'm so pumped for you dude, like there's gonna be I'm excited to see like this you know like this is probably gonna be the first matchup with you against like dan kurtz, who's like, yeah, man, one of the best in the sport um, you know, high pedigree from a collegiate level. And like Brooks runner, like he'll be out there running the 28 K Um, trying to remember who else. There's going to be quite a few. Like the competition, the 28 K is going to be deep, so I'm excited to see you mix it up with those guys and get after it. Man, like it's going to be like a good little prelude to a soon to pee and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, yeah, I'm beyond stoked. It's going to be sick.
Speaker 1:Let's talk competition. Man, I know you just said like I want to. I want to feed that competitive spirit. Like, what's your philosophy on competition? Like, how do you, how do you view it?
Speaker 2:Um, like, like, what do you mean? What do you mean on competition?
Speaker 1:Like are you like? So I've heard the best way I could put it and this is actually a Cade Michael story. He told me he talked about Taylor, how, like Taylor's like one of the most competitive humans he's ever met in his life, like Taylor will lock himself in a room and like, come out when he's ready to destroy you. I always really liked that analogy, just because, like you don't meet too many psychos like that. So to me it's like all right on the scale of one to like psycho. Like where do you land on the scale from that for competition?
Speaker 2:I think I'm pretty psychotic about it, which is why I think I needed, I needed a break, like after college, which you know I ended up never getting, because, you know, obviously like kate got me back into running and stuff, but I I like think about things a lot. You know, like I only need to experience something kind of one time competitively, to kind of just like remember that forever. You know, it's kind of funny because, like when this this is kind of crazy. But uh, so one of the first races that ever choice ever ran was this like small little like trail race I guess it was like a usatf thing in colorado springs, you know, and joe great kicked my butt by like 12 minutes in that race, but I never, I like literally got done and Kay was actually at the finish line. He was like man, like you know, like you just raised Joe Gray, you know, and I was like yeah, he kicked my butt, you know. I was like, but like I'm gonna remember this, you know, like I don't know when the next time I'm gonna race, but I'm gonna think about this a lot, you know. And then so it's kind of funny Cause I like just kept telling him I was like dude next time. You know, I see Joe, like I need to be ready, you know, whatever.
Speaker 2:And it's kind of funny because fast forward to a basin, I was on the starting line and as soon as I like I looked to my left and I saw him. I was like, oh man, like this is like this, is it man? You know, I don't know what I have to do in this race, but I know this guy next to me like he's public enemy number one to me right now. You know so, so like I, I like, uh, so obviously like that's. I guess it kind of sums up my competitiveness. You know, like I, and that's kind of how it's been, like all winter you know Like it's been it's been really, really funny.
Speaker 2:Like I don't really like put out any of my, I guess. Sometimes I hop on Strava and I post stuff, but a lot of times I just like to lay low and kind of just really just dial in myself and then, you know, write about it and reflect on it so and and so yeah, from a competitive standpoint it's like you know we're. My high school coach, chris Schrader, used to always like we would show up to practice on Sundays and he was like he's an Australian dude. So he was like I watch this bloody video. You guys need to watch it. He was like it was a lion attacking like a deer or something like that, you know. And he was like and that's what I want, that's, that's what, that's what I want, you know. So like that's kind of where I've always looked at it in front of uh, like you know, obviously we're all friends and we're homies, but as soon as we step on the line, you know it's it's kind of like a.
Speaker 2:Okay, now my job here is to absolutely destroy you right, it's conflict and conflict resolution yeah yeah, I love it, yeah, yeah, like I love you so much, but right now this is kind of this is business right now, so I'm sorry did you, did you share?
Speaker 1:I know because joe is not super talkative on the start line after the fact, unless, like it goes really really well, like, did you guys share any dialogue after the race by any chance or or no?
Speaker 2:no, man, I, I, he, he kind of, uh, I wish I would have talked to him more, a little bit, but he had, he, I guess he had to do his thing, you know, he would, he got, he got out of there. So it was, uh, but next time, next time I'll have plenty of opportunities. He would tell me he loved baking, which was cool. I was like man. I like bacon too, man. We need to talk more about baking, you know he loves to bake, he loves to cook.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like dude. He's a really interesting guy.
Speaker 2:Like when you get to know him like one of one of the most interesting people in the sport, like super complex yeah, yeah, I also also just admire, like you know, like that guy man like to be like at that level for that long you know what I mean even to the where he is now. Like that is like something that just like I have the utmost respect for. You know what I mean because, like time and time, like he shows that he's just like no matter who's on the starting line, he still is the guy you know what I mean. And like, um, and really just like seeing him kind of dig into the well and then really do that, I'm just like man, like this is, this is the standard like we need, especially for the future. Like a bus, like you know, up and coming spirit alive. Like you know, like he truly just wants to dominate, you know, and that's that's an awesome thing to see. You know, from a competitive side, dude, you know he's the ultimate.
Speaker 1:Like. This is the thing I love about him he's like the kindest human, but like the ultimate competitor. The thing is, too is like to your point, like he's he's gonna be 41 now, something like that so like to do this that long. And like beat up on the young studs that come into the sport on a consistent basis and do this for like 15, 20 years, like however long he's been doing it. It's crazy, dude. Like it's amazing longevity. Yeah, I don't think anybody will ever be able to do that again. Like I think, cause the sport is getting so competitive. Like I don't think that that type of career will ever happen in our sport again for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's one of them, a kind of man for sure man yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's. I love that singing the praises there. All right, let's pivot a little bit. We talked about competition. What was it like for you then? Was it? Was it like humbling and like a really cool experience to have so many people like get on, like like you were, like this figure, that everybody got behind a free trail to like you know, like I don't know what do we, like uh tried to get you off work and then send you to, uh, send you to go race the golden trail races at mammoth and um and in the bay area, like what was that? Like dude, that must have been crazy.
Speaker 2:and like super, like cool it was, you know it's kind of funny because I I did not I guess I'm not really on social media like that, you know. So I honestly didn't really know much about the gofundme thing until, like I think my, my grandma, called me like a day later and was like super emotional. She was like, oh my god, like mijo, like all these people are showing like so much love to you, you know, like you, have you seen it? You know, and I was like no, like what do you? I have no idea what you're talking about. Like what are you talking about? You know.
Speaker 2:And then I saw him was like man, like what the heck is going on right now? You know like this is insane, you know. And so it was a very like wholesome feeling. You know, like that's a cool. It just shows you kind of how like cool the community is with not just running but just like ultra running and trail running and how people are so supportive and you know, really caring and everyone's like super kind of just like in love with what's going on, like with the sport and like what's going on with like the community in it, you know.
Speaker 2:And so to see people like truly just rally like that and um, and even see like my community at work kind of rally around me and really just like be super supportive, you know, and uh, and like I said, I've I've never really like, especially at work, you know, the Valley, like I've never really told anyone that I was really like out here like running, like that, you know. So they found out kind of like out of the blue and they were like what the heck's going on, you know. So they found out kind of like out of the blue and they were like what the heck's going on, you know. So they immediately were just like super supportive and um, and just really down for me to just go do what you know a lot of folks really wanted me to go do and then I was, I was super pumped to really get to experience that. It was super I'm gonna really I'm just like blushing, thinking about it now.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking now but it was really the greatest, greatest sport on earth, like hands down it's, it's, you know, and the thing is is like the one thing that I was told from a young age about running in general that really just connected, like stuck with me, was like no one sits the bench. It's the one sport, no one sits the bench, you know. I'm saying like every participate, everyone participates, everyone gets play time. Like you truly get a chance to show, like the work that you put in, you know, like you know, and so that's, that's what's so dope about. Like just the sport, like just running sports in general.
Speaker 1:Man, it's like it's the sickest thing to see him, you know yeah, it's, it's the great dude and I was really happy to see, like the community rally and like you know. Next thing, you know you're going to race. What was it like going to the golden Trail Series? Like that's I mean it's from a sub-Ulter perspective like that's the pinnacle right there. Like, even though Cirque Series it's a little bit, it's a super competitive race and like you literally got to race some of the best competition in the world. But it's a shorter race Now it's like different. Going to the Golden Trail, where it's everyone, it's like insanely stout, um, and it's a much different type of distance. Like what was that like from a step up for you? Like was that much harder? Like did you? What did you think of? Like the whole thing, um, it was definitely much harder.
Speaker 2:There's a lot more that goes into it, like uh, details, wise, um, you know, like, even though the race is like 17 miles, you know whatever like you're you're hauling ass. You know what I You're not like and and um it was. It was crazy seeing the different skill sets of what you needed to like like some people are super well-rounded, you know, and then some people are really like their areas this mountain aspect. Some people are really fast, you know, they have really like crazy speed, you know, and uh, uh on the trails and stuff. So it was from like the standpoint of just being in the race, it was really insane kind of seeing like people's strengths, you know, and um, and seeing like how people use them throughout the race. Because going to go into like san francisco, like it was crazy because a lot of that race was like super brutal, brutal and like but it's fast. But you also, like you do a hefty amount of climbing, you know in general it's very punchy. So you saw a lot of like the mountain folks really not do so well, but you know, and then, uh, and then you with the mammoth and you saw the opposite, like you saw like mountain folks really just like do really well and um, really ball out and and stuff.
Speaker 2:But the golden trail series was very interesting, just like experiencing it because, like it's insane dude, I feel like you're like in the hunger games or something. Man, there's like drones everywhere, like people pop out of the trees and are like right next to you with a gopro. You know, and I'm like you know, I was kind of bugging out. I was like man, this is, this is, this is so insane, like yeah, like what you know, I was kind of bugging out. I was like man, this is so insane, like you know.
Speaker 2:But it's also, you know, like I never I didn't really know that like how big like mountain running and trail running was like or is in Europe. You know what I mean Like how we see the NFL and like NBA, like that's how I see like these mountain runner folks you know over there. So that was also a really really cool thing to experience. Um, I just I met a lot of really cool people like not necessarily runners, but like people that are like in the game, you know, like um, jamil from like Air Viper running, and like got to hang out with him and have dinner with him and talk to him and learn his whole story and just meet a lot of people behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:That I thought was really really cool and uh was able just to learn and experience a lot of the culture. You know, and that's really kind of what I really wanted to experience was more of just like understanding the culture of kind of what was going on, you know, because I I hadn't really been kind of um, I hadn't really seen that you know, kind of just really always just been stuck in the bubble up in cb, so yeah, how did that read like, did it readjust your goals at all?
Speaker 1:like now that you've gotten, like exposure to some of the biggest, like the biggest sub ultra races like on the planet. Like how did that set you up for 2025? Like now, like I, I didn't expect you to see on the start list for big alta, and now you're going to that and like how did that set you up for 2025? Like now, like I didn't expect you to see on the start list for Big Alta, and now you're going to that and like how did that readjust? Like what you had planned for this year?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it really like I had to take a step back and really like, essentially, just like I don't mind like I'll build Rome, I'll build Rome, you know, but I also don't mind like I'll build room, I'll build room, you know, but I don't also don't mind burning it down and just rebuild it again. You know, like every single year I like I um, I just kind of took a step back and like really needed to like reflect on like what I needed to do. Um, and I had been like when one of the first things was really just like finding a coach, like I really had to find a coach and I had been on a quest for a coach for like a year or two and but and like it kind of, it kind of came in waves like oh, I want to coach, and then I'd like start skiing or something and then really just forget about it and then then I'd come back to it and stuff. So that was one of the main things and was really on a hunt for a coach and um, and just really just work on structure with training.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of my training was was really spontaneous, you know. It was like, oh, today, like let's go run this, let's run red lady here in crested view, you know, or like let's go run this, you know. So, uh, I really needed like essentially take the step forward to kind of like take it a little bit more. Now, I always, I always take competition seriously, but like take it a little bit more, um, seriously and focus on a little bit more. So, you know, got found the Hemings. You know, the Hemings hit me up and were like super willing to coach me and, uh, they're really down for it. So, and and then really kind of just like do more research into what, because I do, honestly, like my the beta that I get for racing is from like jeshren, small like, or like kade michael.
Speaker 2:You know, like I don't know anything that's going on in the running world like like it's like oh what, and I was always curious on like what races to do to like go essentially like race good competition you know, and so having someone like having mentors, really kind of like essentially show me and make a blueprint for me, like that's really what I needed to have, because I mean, at every point in my, in my like running life, like every time that I've wanted to take it to the next level, you know, I've always had an awesome mentor to really kind of help me along, help me along in the process.
Speaker 2:So you know, that's kind of where, um, so finding the coaches and then really working on training and actually, like you know, looking forward into the future and planning out stuff was a really big thing for me too because, like I said, I never really like planned out for races or anything. It was always like, uh, so and so tells me to sign up for this race, and it's me begging the race director to let me in, and sometimes they let me in, sometimes they don't, you know, and that's kind of how I end up racing. So that's kind of how.
Speaker 1:It's kind of how I've taken the, the, the look towards 2025 nice dude in in your build up for big alta and like, since you've gotten more structured, have you started to see some like noticeable changes in yourself, like getting like seeing the improvements that you want to see? Or oh yeah, it takes some time, but like I feel like for someone of your caliber like that good, like it just takes a few tweaks and bing bang, boom, you're ready to rock and roll like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I definitely we with the hemmings, like we worked on a lot of like, because like there was no way I was going to run 100 miles or something you know like that on the treadmill in the wintertime.
Speaker 2:It was more of just working on the craft itself and like the biomechanics and you know, and really dial in on like the things that we can work on like now, so like, and then you know, because in the summertime, like summertime is a perfect time to really just crank up and really pound, pound the mileage and, uh, do more volume.
Speaker 2:But we we did a lot of like, um, kind of like faster stuff and speed work and really dialing on that and like uh, and that was the flaw, that like, because not this summer but the summer before that I really was in like fast, fast shape wise, like I probably could have like run really really fast in the 5k on the track, like done some really fast road races, but this past year was more of like a high altitude, like vert, vert type situation and then so I like I lost that like honestly like and um, and it showed when I went to you know uh, to headlands and and mammoth and stuff.
Speaker 2:So this winter we've really just been working on like the work, working on the speed aspect of it, and it's really been showing, like recently, like especially you know, and um, we've been hitting some really sweet runs and some fast-paced stuff up at high altitude. So that's what makes me really stoked, because I was like man, this is something that I really just got exposed of in the races and I really need to focus on this. So I think we'll work on that first and then we'll focus on other stuff later on Dude, they're awesome man.
Speaker 1:I used to work with the Hemmings and they're some of the best in the game easily awesome people and yeah, can't sing their praises enough. They coach quite a few of my really good friends, so yeah, they're awesome.
Speaker 2:Right on, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right, dude. So let's talk. Let's talk season for 2025. We already talked big out. We kind of alluded to soon a P. So you are, you are confirmed to be going out to soon a P, right, like that's. That's the plan. Oh yeah, man, I'm so excited to see you in the mountain running champs dude, oh my God yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm super stoked on like northeast, like I was saying earlier, like I, I have a lot of homies here who, um are from like vermont and like from connecticut, new hampshire area, and like I've never, ever been to the east coast, like the northeast, like that, and they just tell me so much about it and I'm like beyond stoked, which is why I'm probably gonna like just crash out there for like another week and then follow up and do the the uh, canon um circuit race, because, hell yeah, it's just like, it's kind of just like a why not, you know?
Speaker 2:Like why wouldn't you do that, you know, to experience it and really get to just see, um, you know, see what the east coast has to offer. Because, dude, there's a lot of like, there's a lot of good folks that are coming out of the northeast right now, you know, and it's like showing that there's obviously something there that's like building these beasts, man, you know that are and they're performing super well. So, um, I need to get some beta man, I need to check it out. I really had to check it out myself.
Speaker 1:So, at big Alta you got to go find a I don't know if you've raced him before Remy LaRue he's another one and Kurt's like there's so many guys from the East coast that are going to be out there that are like just like world-class, like some of the best um, you know a couple of them are on the Brooks team Like there's there's a lot of uh dude the East coast is like. And the other thing too is the mountain races. Like now that the Cirque series has kind of come in, uh in there, like you mix that up and you kind of look at some of the mountain races they have with the circ series and now it's like you could, you could do a whole season on the east coast and like have some serious competition, like I I've been looking at it. I was like wow, like there's cranmore mountain race, like there's quite a few really solid, like legitimately like competitive mountain races out there yeah, man, and it's like, um, it's just super.
Speaker 2:It just sounds like super technical, like trail wise over there and like really, really kind of hardcore. And uh, you know, like one of the things like like my homies always tell me there's like no switchbacks on the east coast. So they're just like, dude, no, like you guys have switchbacks over here. You know we don't have switchbacks on the east coast. So it's like, uh, so I'm just stoked to really kind of just get thrown in the grinder man over there again. Be, really, it's really gonna be really sweet to see, yeah yeah, I'm excited for you.
Speaker 1:What else do you think you're going to have on the calendar besides Cirque Cannon and Soonipi? What do you got planned?
Speaker 2:I'm on the wait list for Broken Arrow. I'm honestly not really sweating it that much. There's a Golden Chalice Race that's in Mexico that.
Speaker 2:I would really, yeah, um, go do that one that I would really that I really love to go do uh and really kind of be pretty fit for and show off for that and then, uh, in july, like probably gonna just like I don't know like colorado like the best place to be in july if I'm being honest with you, you know there's just like especially crest of even like there's gonna be wildflowers everywhere, really awesome, probably be a really awesome time to go after a lot of FKTs in big mountains.
Speaker 1:Go win Kendall man. Go after Jim Walmsley's record on Kendall.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's a sick mountain race. Silverton's a sick sweet place man.
Speaker 1:That's right down the road from you. That's not too far at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was something that was on my mind, but you know we'll, we'll just have to see like I'd like to see the the matchup between like you and mason kopi.
Speaker 1:Like mason's a monster, so it'd be cool to see yeah man, he's a beast too man yeah, yeah, so all right. So sticking around colorado.
Speaker 2:And then what do you got planned for august and september, so august, um, like trying to get into some of the golden trail series races like in europe. You know, we'll see how that goes. I heard there's some like sierras and now I was like a little tricky to get into um, but I'm hoping, like you know, we have early success on throughout the year and then it can translate and really um kind of um do. Uh, you know we can probably get into that um, and then I'll be in chumminy for like um. I'll be in chumminy for like team camp and stuff and uh, just experience that. I don't I'm not in nocc's or anything like that, so uh, but just be a really cool experience to kind of like just be there and kind of see what the culture has to offer and you know, see the race and see a lot of the, see a lot of the homies race and stuff.
Speaker 1:So talk about this. What do you mean by team? Team camp like what, what's the? What's going on there? What do you got? What do you got planned?
Speaker 2:yeah, man. Um so like, yeah, I got. I'm on like the satisfy, like pro team oh, I didn't know that. When did this happen, dude holy shit, it's, it's, it's been, it's been really kept on the low like we're uh doing an announcement with uh okay, I won't release this until after you make the announcement, but that's amazing yeah, we're doing an announcement with like, uh, with satisfied and like, and and free trail.
Speaker 2:They're gonna kind of um do that. I was on their podcast like a couple weeks ago so uh, um, so on the wrong gonna be going to team camp there and then really experiencing, like the vulnerable culture and it's kind of crazy because I've never been out of the country like it took, you know, 18 years of my life to even get out of texas. So it's gonna be really cool to experience that. And you know, see where, um, um and just see where, like the, you know we're all at, you know holy shit, congratulations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks man. Yeah, I'm not much of a person that kind of like talk about myself, so I kind of just keep. Obviously it's a huge deal, you know, and everyone's super stoked. I always kept it low key.
Speaker 1:Do you want to? All right, I have so many questions for you now.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't decide, all right.
Speaker 1:So the first question is what do you think of the new shoes? Have you gotten to play with them at all? I know they haven't. I have. I have the shoe at the crib right now what do?
Speaker 2:you think it's pretty sick man, like I definitely, you know, up like just being like sell around and buy sneaker hats and stuff. I've always admired like the small, uh, the small little things and um, and shoes and like the specs and stuff. So, uh, I like seeing how dialed they are, like with with everything in the shoe um was really really freaking awesome to see. Like I, like you know, they obviously took a lot of passion into like every detail of from the bottom, the upper and stuff and uh, it's really it's a really cozy shoe. Like, honestly, like I um, like I'm going to wear it.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to race it yet but, uh, I'm definitely taking it out to California and going to be, you know, racing and I've been just running around in it and really whipping around, man, you know, really testing it out. So it's gonna be super sick, but overall, like it's a really comfortable, like really cozy shoot. I think a lot of people like are actually gonna like it and you know that's my honest opinion too. Like you know, I wouldn't just I'm not just gonna say that, you know, yeah no, no, you're dude, you're authentic, you're a genuine.
Speaker 1:So I take your word for what it is dude. How did the I'm sure Cause a lot of people are going to be curious about this. How cause satisfies like one of the hottest brands in the sport right now? How did that conversation come about? Like, did they reach out to you? Did you facilitate the conversation with them? Like, how did that come about so?
Speaker 2:I'm kind of like a hard person to kind of get a hold of. Oh, I know, I'm not like a I'm never really on my phone, like that, you know. And I actually like just got a new phone, like I have like an iPhone, like a crazy beat up iPhone, like seven for the longest time, you know. So, uh, the team manager, logan, like essentially reached out to Dylan and was like yo, like I saw this podcast, I need to meet this, like I need to know, I need to meet this kid, like you know, I would love to talk to him about. You know, about a per running contract and really seeing if he's, if he's down for like what he's up to and so, uh, obviously, like the bum is like we're really stoked for me and um, you know, they forwarded my contact information and I talked to them and um, we just really talked about like, and logan hit me up like the next day and we were just chatting and uh, he was talking a lot about, like you know, satisfy and what they really you know what they're we're really into and um, what they were pursuing and really like what their goals were and um, and they're not really like performance based, you know and uh, which is pretty interesting because, like I had all these like you know, competitive goals and stuff, but, uh, I was just really like obsessed with kind of their whole idea and what they were really trying to like you know, um, what they were trying to reach as a brand, you know, and I thought that was like I really wanted to be.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, I definitely want to be a part of this. This is like you guys are the coolest. This is the coolest. You know, and I hadn't really heard about satisfied until, like jamil was wearing like a satisfied running hat and I was like, oh, yeah, what's that, you know, at mammoth and he was telling me all about it and I was like, oh, that's kind of, that's kind of badass man like I, kind of like that, you know. So, uh, it was cool, really kind of learning their, their approach and really really be a part of it. So I'm I'm super, super stoked, you know I love it, man, I love their like.
Speaker 1:You fit with them too. Like you're. You're very authentic and like they're a scene to come across as a very authentic brand, like it's this very punk rock counterculture, like I don't know. Like it's. It's how could you not like it? Like it's, it's really interesting. It's a cool like brand story that they're trying to tell it's ridiculously expensive. I will say that, but other than that, it's, it's yeah man, I mean it's pretty uh, it obviously is.
Speaker 2:It's pretty expensive, but I mean it's like it's kind of like where we are now with, yeah, you know, running wise man. Honestly, you know, obviously I don't expect people to like be dripped out head to toe and satisfy. You know, like, if you, if you are like I got mad respect for you, like, you know your pockets might be hurting, but you know, but it's like if you truly want to invest in like a piece or two, you know, then like that's cool to have in your wardrobe man to pull up for a run. You know, I'm saying that's like. You know you kind of like did more research into what you wanted to buy, which is how I look at it. And you know kind of uh, and, and it's cool because it's like when you buy clothes or like buy pieces and stuff, you know it's like it's cool knowing you're buying stuff that's like not like it's not going to come out again.
Speaker 2:Essentially, you know, like you have this one-on-one piece that came out this season, you know, and if you take care of it like years down the road, um, you know you can really uh, you can show it off, you know. So it's super, super cool and I like and they're really, they're truly just down man for the culture. You know, it's not like they're doing their own thing, you know, and that's kind of what I admired, like when I was um, when I was with some of them like um, doing a little like shoot for for one of the collections coming out, and, uh, they truly are dialed into what they think is cool. You know, like they're not trying to ride anybody's wave, like they're just like this is what we're into, this is what we like, you know, and like that's it. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not trying to be some someone else, right? It's like not trying to keep up with this brand dude. I know I gotta be honest with you, like their stuff is really nice. Like I guess I was I haven't tried the shoe yet. I've been like I've just seen the photos. I was blown away. I was like, damn, they put a lot of effort and a lot of work into that. I think that's going to be a high selling shoe dude. Their belts are really nice, like a lot of their shit's like super, super nice. So yeah, it's super.
Speaker 2:It's super cozy too, you know like super cozy stuff. It's not like just like bs, like oh, it's marked at this price and it's just like it is. You know, some like crappy made stuff, like it truly is like super. It's super cool knowing like you know it shows you on a little tag when you get it. It's like where it's made and you know what it's made out of and stuff. So it's. I's the dopest thing.
Speaker 1:That's cool, man. I love it too because I love the fact that you signed a pro contract, because that gives you the ability now to have some wiggle room to go race and compete and travel and now get to see Chamonix and do that. The reason I ask you this actually I'll go two different routes on this. First one is when are you back from chamonix? When you, when you uh, come back from that, so I get back from chamonix the like, essentially the end of the week of that race.
Speaker 2:I think it's like the 30th or 29th of august.
Speaker 1:Um, the only reason is I ask you is because I want to. I want to try to recruit you to come do the pike's peak ascent I mean, I honestly like when is?
Speaker 2:is it in september? It September, yeah, it's like mid to late. September. I'm not completely out of that. I could be down and do that, Dude you got a place to crash. That's another historic race. That's super sick to be around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm on the board there and I'm trying to put together a sick elite field, so we're working on that now. We'll see.
Speaker 2:Are you running it? Are you doing the ascent or the marathon, or uh, I don't know yet.
Speaker 1:I probably the ascent, but we'll say I'm decided. Maybe the marathon I'm still up in the air, like it's september so late that it's like hard for me to like ever figure out what I want to do. Uh, also that there's, you know, because sportiva, like I have to also have a presence at a lot of the cirque series races because of sportiva. So it's like there's also the canon, I don't know, canon um crystal mountain crystal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is?
Speaker 1:also the same weekend, which I might have to go to. So I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out, like, what I'll be doing. So both super sick races though to be a part of yeah, I love those races. Um, what was I gonna ask you? So when's the announcement gonna be made? When are they gonna uh, make this, make like, put this out to the world?
Speaker 2:it should be pretty here, pretty, um, pretty soon, you know, I mean, I definitely, um, maybe when I go up to big alta, like, yeah, you know, but uh, but it should be like any day now, honestly sweet, you know. But I'm kind of just um, kind of just waiting, you know. I'm waiting to do their thing, so you know, and uh, they're on their own time. I'm not really really sweating it, you know, but they really wanted to like like free trail and satisfy. I wanted to kind of like collab and really, you know, cause, like I said, like so we were talking about earlier man, like the free trail community like has done so much, you know, you know, and supporting wise for me, so it's like it was just's like it was just, I thought it'd be the next biggest thing for them to kind of show some love, you know.
Speaker 1:So, oh, hell, yeah, dude, dude, I can't wait for the world to hear it. I'm kind of feel, uh, pretty stoked that I got to hear it pretty early.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, man yeah, man, we'll put this out right after um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, all right, so we're starting to wind down. Now we're at about an hour um. I'm gonna get into some questions.
Speaker 2:I'm very curious to see who inspires you um like in the sport or just like outside the sport.
Speaker 2:You know, just just in general you do in general, or whatever it's up to you whatever, whatever you're feeling I mean, um, I mean the people are inspiring man, are just like someone who inspires me specifically, you know, I mean growing up I was like surrounded, growing up in Waco, like obviously Baylor university is there and, like you know, hooping is like such a big thing. So I always grew up like a Kobe fan, you know like, and he, that was a very awesome thing. Uh, kind of see the mama mentality and really kind of just see, see the work ethic and stuff. You know, uh, but I mean a lot of people inspiring man, honestly, anybody who just gets after it and just like you know, anytime I see anyone like running or just just grinding. You know I'm always or just working really hard.
Speaker 2:You know, like I bought, I just really it doesn't take much for me to get inspired and kind of like be motivated. Um, but yeah, man, like it's super, super. I don't know, I'm always, I'm always kind of inspired. It's really it's really hard not to be inspired when you, when you kind of live here and surrounded by such awesome people, you know yeah, um, but yeah, man, you know you got anybody inspires you oh man, that's a good, that's a dude.
Speaker 1:I haven't been asked that in a long time. There's a lot of you know, man, I think it's. I have so many conversations with so many athletes that like it's hard for me to just put like one out there um to be like, oh, this person like cam smith definitely like blows me away, like I, like I said he's your favorite runner's, favorite runner, um, and like his work ethic is just one of these, one of those people that like the work ethic, just like absolutely astounded me and just seeing his like ascent and rise and like really trying to become an Olympian, um, you know, it's this, it's it's. It's an interesting storyline to follow and, just like you know, I'm just a giant fan of his um, a lot of people, man, like all the athletes. It's hard for me to just pinpoint one, but like that that was the one cause we had talked about him earlier. That would just happen to be like um in the back of my mind, um, but yeah, yeah, my wife too, got a shot with my wife. Like she inspires me, she's amazing.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's an. It's an. It's an inspiring world we live in, man. It's an even more inspiring sport. So it's like, uh, you know, endurance freaks could be really, really sick to look up to, you know, like.
Speaker 1:I said it's the greatest sport on earth. Like man, there's nothing more fun than like training your ass off for something and then smashing yourself trying to achieve right like it's something about that, that like, yeah, so it's funny, we talk about this a lot.
Speaker 1:Like I'm always not I dog on ultra I love I have a lot of friends that do ultra and I've done ran a few ultras. But like just the difference between sub ultra races and ultra races, like there's just like that component of just like absolutely destroying yourself but it's a different kind of destroy yourself in sub ultra races than in our ultra race. Like that, that ability, that that hurt, um, and just continue to dig deeper and deeper and deeper, like you know, and how how much can you tolerate that pain? I don't know. There's something about that that I just yeah, the well.
Speaker 2:The well is definitely different in in every, in every event, but it's like yeah, in every event.
Speaker 1:But it's like, yeah, it's a different experience, you know, you just have to live it to, to feel it.
Speaker 2:You know it's kind of yeah, you can't really describe it in a way you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, what's? Uh, I'm sorry, no, no, no, you go ahead, man, I'm sorry. What's, um, if you're getting ready for a race or or a hard effort like what, what music are you listening to? Man going into that?
Speaker 2:oh, man, uh, I don't know, man I'm, I'm just a southern kid, so, like, I definitely listen to a lot of like outlaw country, you know, like a lot of mellow stuff, you know, and like, uh, but then I also listen to like, listen, I like, like, I love like outcasts, you know listen a lot of outcasts, uh, a lot of 90s, like like rap and stuff, um, really usually just kind of just mellow stuff for the most part. You know, I'm not much of a person to listen to like. You know, like really hard rock type thing when I'm trying to get ready for a race or something, some people like that, they like to get really amped and stuff. But I'm more of just like a kind of just chill, you know. So I usually have like I don't know, like Waylon Jennings or like Willie Nelson in my headphones.
Speaker 1:Willie Nelson, I love it yeah.
Speaker 2:So I listened to a lot of like Willie Waylon and the boys before before races and stuff and then, um, yeah, just like really nineties rap. You know, my parents were really young like uh, when they had me, so I kind of got to grow up with with them and like get their flavor are you?
Speaker 1:are you a big guy like you, like biggie, or who's your? Who's your 90s?
Speaker 2:uh tupac like I mean boys in the hole obviously I mean I had like ready to die on cd and stuff like, but I definitely I'm not. Like that's not my first pick, you know, I definitely I do. I get down with, uh, just anything. Honestly, new york hip-hop, like it's super sick. Like you got like gangstar, just a lot of gangstar. Um yeah, like the locks, I don't know, just a lot of cool dude I like your taste in music, man, I appreciate that thanks, man dude all right, so I was gonna ask you another question.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, all right, here we go. I almost missed this one. Do you get nervous on start lines? Are you nervous at all sitting on the start line? Are you a calm person?
Speaker 2:I think when I was in college when I did like mile race, like the mile race or like the 1500, I was always like semi-nervous and always like I, semi nervous and I kind of get semi nervous like on the start line, but as soon as the as soon as it starts, it kind of just all goes away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, um, I kind of just like I really kind of think about it and like before you know and really like take some deep breaths and kind of just like visual, visualize everything. So I don't. So by the time I'm online, I've like kind of manifested in my own eyes like how this is going to play out. So in a way, I'm like if I just do what I'm supposed to do, then it's supposed to go out, so I don't really get wicked nervous. You know, I think like, um, I mean, this year, when we like some of these, some of these races, like some of you, I probably will have some nerves, you know, and and uh, just because they're like team qualifications, you know.
Speaker 2:So there might be a little nerves, but for the most part, man like I honestly kind of just try to deal with the nerves before you know and kind of really just think about it, you know, and then that's it. You know, all I got to do is like go out there and try my hardest, you know, and then, like I've always looked at it as like, whether I'm first or last in the race, like if I go out there like do what I'm supposed to do, follow a game plan and execute. Then whatever happens happens Like you know, like I can't really be, I can't really sweat it, you know so let's talk about soon to be really something I kind of glossed over, but like is your goal there?
Speaker 1:because you have the ability to go win a race like that and make a us selection team, is that a goal, or is it more so just to go race the best guys on in the united states?
Speaker 2:oh no, it's a goal like I definitely like, uh, I definitely think it's. If you're a sub-ocean person, you know that's like obviously this year is the year that you know making a team is kind of may not be your top goal, but it's one of the goals you know. Um, you know I'm not saying that's like my top goal for the whole year, but it'd be like I'm going to try my hardest to. That's a one of a kind thing to be able to be a part of. So you know, um, I'm kind of, obviously, on race day, I'm all in on making a team and you know, and that's definitely, uh, something I would like to do, um, which is kind of what we're really working towards, yeah, um, training wise and stuff. But, like I said, man, it's like june and there's a whole year out. There's a whole, like another second half of the year after that. So, yeah, it's kind of um, just one race, one part of it, you know dude, I like to hear it, man.
Speaker 1:Either way, whoever makes it, we're sending the best US team ever.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, man, it's deep, man, it's super deep. I'm beyond stoked to really be able to compete and just show out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't wait to see you on a start line with David Sinclair and all of these killers man, it's going to be fun. All right man. Like killers man, it's gonna be fun, um, all right man. So last question I have is always is like kind of a not so super serious one do you believe in bigfoot?
Speaker 2:um, honestly, dude, like yeah, yeah, I mean I, yeah, there's no way you know, but I I went to first off, where's bigfoot?
Speaker 1:like we're originated from you know all over man. What do you mean? Like the myth.
Speaker 2:Where are the sightings? Where has he been seen? Everywhere.
Speaker 1:But I'd say so, like most native persons' stories from America talk about this. They all have a story about this giant hairy dude which is maybe like a know, maybe like a remnant, gigantic Pithacus or something like that, who knows? Um, but yeah, so like they all have a story about some big dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely. I went to the Pacific Northwest for the first time in my life, like this past summer, and after like being out there, I was oh yeah, there's definitely some, some there's definitely something like a bigfoot out here, you know, like most death. You know it's pretty, there's no way there's no way.
Speaker 1:There's not, do you do? You do you believe in aliens? Then like what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:um, I mean honestly for sure, I think, like it's just, it's just too big out there man for there not to be just anything. You know, but obviously you know I don't know. That's my answer is yes, for sure, but you know, I definitely that's a good question.
Speaker 1:It's a good question oh, it's got.
Speaker 2:You know what about?
Speaker 1:you, bro, you believe in aliens?
Speaker 2:oh, big time dude, like they're, they're yeah, yeah, I think there's like no way I don't know if it's like an alien per se, like from like, all right.
Speaker 1:So the weird thing is is like, dude, we see like these, like phenomena in the sky, like people see them all the time. It's like constantly talked about, and now there's like government disclosure and they're like talking about that stuff. So it's like there must be something to it. But it's like is it? Is it like from a different universe? Is it like part of the like, different, like like within the multiverse? Is it like interdimensional, like oh, dude, you can go down a rabbit hole with that.
Speaker 2:Like it's, yeah, man I'm one of my, one of my like crazy family vacations. As a child, we went to like I don't know why the heck we went here, but we went to roswell, new mexico.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've been there, great place dude, went to this crazy museum and they have like all the archives of like even the mcdonald's is like an alien ship and stuff, and after being I was like god, dude, there's no way, you know, I'm like looking at these white owl pictures and I'm like, oh man, dude, that's, I see, that's like alien right there. You know, it's like what the heck?
Speaker 1:dude? I think they're. Yeah, I roswell, I and I if, for those of you who have never been there, like listeners, like dude, like hands down, go check it out is. It is a different place, it's a unique spot, man it's super sick that's cool.
Speaker 1:Well, joe and dude, thank you so much. This is an amazing conversation. I, dude, I mean, like I'm such a big fan and I cannot wait to see what you do this summer, like I'll be rooting for you every step of the way. And uh, yeah, man, congratulations on the new deal with satisfy and I can't wait to see where your career goes from here.
Speaker 2:Thanks, homie, man, I can't wait to you. Know, I got to pull up on you sometimes, man. Yeah, let's hang. Man, you want to come to the Springs?
Speaker 1:Like I said, if you want to do, uh, if you do wind up like if you want to go to Pikes like let me know, you got a place to down.
Speaker 1:So it's like hell yeah, dude, What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank Joan so much for coming on Just having a conversation with me. You know what, Like I just think I don't know. There you meet some people in the sport that are just like very much genuine and just themselves, Not about anything, Just like wants to do his thing and enjoy himself and have fun, and like that all shined very through in the conversation. Like he's just a very I think the word I keep coming back to is just authentic and genuine of a human. So definitely made an impact on me. Can't wait to meet Joe on a start line this year. Maybe we can get him out to Pikes. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:Or maybe not. Maybe he'll be on the world's team which, wishing him the best of luck in his 2025 season. Guys, before you get going, hop on Instagram, give Joe and a follow. You can find him at Joe and J O H E N underscore D on Instagram. Uh, give him a follow, send him some DMS, although he is hard to get ahold of. It took us like three years to put together this episode. Um, and I don't think he can. It was pretty funny, but yeah, no, it was. Give him a follow, send him some DMS. I'm sure he would love to hear, hear, some, some words and kind words from you all. I think he would appreciate it.
Speaker 1:So, guys, before we get going, tomorrow is our one year anniversary for the steep stuff podcast. If you happen to be on the front range or in you know Colorado Springs or the general area, pop on into the Colorado Running Company. We're going to be going. Starting at 8 am, nike's going to kick things off with a shoe demo and you're going to be able to take those shoes out on a group run, followed by some free refreshments and conversation by Ultimate Direction, as well as some giveaways. First 20 people through the door are going to get a free pair of Cetus socks, as well as some nice Cetus discount cards that Cetus hooked me up with. Ultimate Direction is going to be giving away some free packs, as well as a bunch of hats and stickers and all kinds of fun stuff that they have going on.
Speaker 1:What else are we doing? Like I said, some conversations, some banters, some product demos. Some conversations, some banters, some product demos, and then it's going to be capped off by a conversation, a live podcast in front of the audience with myself and Nike trail athlete Bailey Kowalczyk. So it should be a blast. Excited to have Bailey on the podcast. Finally, it should be a good one. And yeah, guys, I hope you guys can join us. Yeah, it means so much to me. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for supporting the podcast and listening to these stories and just supporting us. So it means a ton. Before we get going, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or YouTube, wherever you consume your podcasts. And yeah, thanks so much, guys. Have a great weekend, thank you.
