The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#84 - Josh Eberly
Meet the architect behind American trail running's most influential collegiate program. Josh Eberly, head coach of Western Colorado University's trail running team, has created something truly unique in the running world: the only dedicated collegiate trail running program in the United States.
What began as a small experiment has evolved into a powerhouse that's reshaping how young runners transition from high school competition to mountain athletics. Through his decade of leadership, Eberly has mentored some of the biggest names in American trail running—Cole Campbell, Kieran Nay, Brian Whitfield, and others who've gone on to professional careers with teams like Adidas Terrex.
But what makes Western's program special isn't just its elite output. Eberly has created an inclusive environment where athletes of all abilities can thrive, united by their love of mountains and trails rather than strictly performance metrics. "It's not all about creating the next professional," he explains. "We have athletes with different goals and ambitions. They love the work ethic, they love the trails, they love the mountains."
The program blends structured training with adventure, taking athletes to iconic locations like the Grand Canyon, Leadville's 14ers, and the San Juan Mountains. These experiences reinforce why many chose trail running over traditional track programs—connection with nature and the joy of exploration. With support from Adidas Terrex providing gear and opportunities, Western's athletes can focus on developing as both runners and humans.
As trail running grows in popularity, Western's unique model raises fascinating questions about the future of collegiate athletics. Could we see more universities developing similar programs? For now, Eberly continues refining his vision, balancing his own competitive career while guiding the next generation of mountain athletes in the high-altitude playground of Gunnison, Colorado.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode with none other than Mr Josh Eberle. Josh is probably best known for both being a professional athlete for DS Terex and racing at an extremely high level, as well as being the head coach for the Western Colorado University trail running team. In this episode we dove pretty deep into both some goals that Josh has left for his career, that he wants to accomplish, races that he loves to do, as well as what it's like being a mentor, a coach, and just like what he does in his role at Western, which has just been so impactful and powerful for the trail running community over the span of the last, say like five to seven years, if not longer. You know Josh, like I said, as a mentor. You know he's probably responsible for mentoring some of the biggest names in our sport, a lot of household names you guys might know. You know Cole Campbell, jess, jess, from small. You know folks like here in neighbor on Whitfield. A lot of people have gone through Western, both at the cross country level as well as the trail running level. Josh also really is candid and puts on, you know, just a really good conversation about how to get on the team, what it's like training the team workouts, what it's for. You know it's not just all about professional athletics and trying to build these kids into pros. There's a lot more to it, you know there's it's very diverse. It's a group of people that just love being outside and love training and enjoy the trails. So it's something really cool and really special. And you know he kind of puts his finger on exactly what makes these athletes just so. You know so good and you know it's pretty cool. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's a personal favorite of mine. Really want to thank Josh for coming on the podcast and I can't wait for more conversations down the line.
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Speaker 2:Doing great. Yeah, no complaints. Here the the sun is shining and, uh yeah, great air to breathe in up here in Gunnison. So we're we're at a high elevation of almost 8,000 feet, so it's a it's pretty magical up here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Cold. You guys get like the coldest winters. It's like brutal up there, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is cold but, like you know, right, right, geographically we are in a valley and it sucks down you all the cold air, so we're basically the coldest place in the nation, like every year. But but but the cool thing is it's it's it's relative right, because you're in colorado springs too, and I think a lot of Colorado natives they go to other places, like I lived in Michigan for three years and like they had great summers but the sun wasn't, as you know, relevant as what we have here. You know, there's a lot of foggy days and cloudy days out there and uh, and at least in in Colorado, if it's zero degrees or in the negatives, we usually have the sun and that makes such a huge difference for for getting out there, right, for tolerance and and um and and you know, moving the body. As for running wise, it's like you bundle up, you have the right, right layers and within 10 minutes you, uh, you warm up pretty good. So it's it's, you get used to it quick.
Speaker 2:The temperatures that people read like I get recruiting calls from athletes and they're, they're looking at the temperature and they're you know how is it. It's so cold there and you know when they get there. When they get here, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's not too bad. They get, they get used to it and we got the sunshine. That makes a huge difference for Colorado.
Speaker 1:It's funny. I follow Kieran on Instagram and he's always pretty good about putting up uh like stories about some of his training and stuff like that and dude, like some of the some of the stories he puts up, especially in winter it just looks so brutal and so cold. I was like, ooh, uh, but yeah, it's funny. Uh yo, what part of Michigan did you live in? I lived in Ann Arbor for like a year and a half.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was on the other side. I was, uh, I was with Hanson's over at Rochester Hills areas for, uh, for three years, so from 2004 to 2007,. That's when I was on the, the Hanson's ODP program. So, yeah, a while ago. But yeah, michigan, michigan was great. They had, you know, those rails for trails were amazing.
Speaker 2:What a great thing to innovate with the old trail system. So we ran on those all the time, a lot of the dirt roads and, yeah, met a lot of great people and it was really fun. We need to go back to Michigan again to see all my friends and and, uh, people we met, so yeah, it's a great state.
Speaker 1:I mean, like you said, the the winter's a little brutal there too, just because you don't see the sun for like three months, but other than that it's it's pretty dope. It's a fun good. You know, a lot of outdoor, like it kind of surprised me. A lot of outdoorsy people, Great craft beer culture. I would say their craft beer culture is way better than Colorado. I'm just putting that one out there. But yeah, it's interesting. It's a cool spot, Definitely enjoyed, especially Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is a cool place.
Speaker 1:Why were you out there real quick? So at first I moved out there to start for grad school. I was trying to get my MBA from the University of Michigan and then what do you call it? I did my MBA internship at a plastics company in corporate finance out there. It was pretty square, pretty boring, but it was fun.
Speaker 1:I just like being out there. I had a couple To this day some of my best friends still live out there and it's a fun town. It's a good spot, Cool, yeah, yeah, man. So I don't want to bury the lead too much. I've been really excited to have a conversation with you. When I conceptualize this podcast from a sub-ultra and from a trail running perspective, you're one of the key people. I think that really should be a guest on this type of podcast, just because of not just what you do professionally as an athlete, but also what you do professionally for your day job in managing the trail team at Western. Can you talk a little bit about what your role is and specifically what you do, and then we can kind of go from there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, first, yeah, thanks for having me on. I listen to a lot of your pods. I think you're happy. One year anniversary too. Oh, thanks, man. That's great, great testament to still be here in this digital era, this digital space. So well done, keep doing what you're doing. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:I went back and I listened to so many of your episodes and, uh, obviously the new ones that pop up, but it's it's, it's good, good perspective on some of the athletes I haven't really had a chance to really listen to and get the vibe from, and, and it was great, but I appreciate that, yeah, anyways, back to your question is basically what you know, my role at Western right You're talking about Basically, my role at Western right You're talking about. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, and so you know this is my 10th year going on, 11 years as the head coach of the trail running program and the actual mountain sports program has probably been maybe 13 years, uh, from inception and, and so they created this mountain sports program to really fulfill, right, these extreme sports like mountain biking and and skiing and then rock climbing and skimo and free ride right, and so you know that was sort of the sort of inception of the idea of behind the mountain sports is trying to, because back then we used to actually have an NCAA Division I ski program and then, you know, we lost some funding and then we went back to NCAA Division I and then we lost funding again. So we were going back and forth. And then Dave Weins he had this great idea why don't we just integrate a mountain sports program at Western? And we'll have such a good draw right because of where we live, we have the mountains right here. Good draw right because of where we live, we have the mountains right here. We can't compete with someone like fort lewis or durango where they have the the trails open year round. But, um, but we, you know the whole idea is behind. It was really to have an athlete come in, hit the dirt when the dirt is available and then transition to skis and do the winter sports if that fulfills them. Um, so having that year round access to being a high end athlete, endurance athlete or or a ski athlete as well, uh, having sort of that nine month cycle, uh, instead of just right three months or four months in the fall, um, can't really do a ton with that. So, yeah, I used to coach NCAA for four years before this. So I helped out.
Speaker 2:When I got back from Michigan, I hung out for a little bit and then I went over to the NCAA and I helped the coach there with a couple other assistants and we did that for four years and then just figured, um, I wasn't that good as an assistant coach and and sort of stopped. And um, sure enough, like a month later I was running, running, you know, down our trails and I ran into an old buddy, uh, duncan Callahan, and he stopped me and he was the director of mountain sports at the time, and he and he stops me, and he was the director of mountain sports at the time, and he and he stops me and he goes hey, uh, we're looking for a trail running coach. Uh, you are you interested? And I'm, I'm like I shrug it off and I laugh, I'm like, no, not, not at all. So I keep running. And like a couple days later I ran by his house again and he stops me in the yard and he says, hey, hey, Josh, hey, can I get, can I get 10 minutes with you? You know, just let me, let me talk 10 minutes with you tomorrow and and we'll explain some stuff and, and I showed up and had sort of a little discussion about what they're looking for and and really said to myself, yeah, why not looking for? And? And really said to myself, yeah, why not, why not challenge myself at trying to, you know, build something and and actually have it be my own right? And that was a big thing. I wanted to sort of create something and it would be a part of something.
Speaker 2:And, um, and one thing led to another. That was the first year that we had a organized trail team and then we sort of took off from there. And now here we are 10 years, almost 11 years later, and we got, you know, athletes coming in. I had my first international athlete come in last year in the fall and he was NCAA Division I athlete and he just sort of got fried from the system at the NCAA. Um, um, you know, um gives them and and he wanted to run the trails and so, uh, transferred over to Western and and now just uh, last week I had a kid from Iceland, uh, call me up and is really interested in our program. So it's pretty cool from you know, I I always look at and I always tell athletes, you know, don't forget where you came from, right, I think that's important. And so we started from scratch. A lot of athletes, like you know, josh and Gordon, brian those guys sort of laid the foundation and the framework for what we are sort of today, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, you know, with Adidas, turek's stepping in, that's a huge, huge part of our success. You know, when you know Adidas, they really want to invest in that future athlete, in that next-gen athlete. We're seeing really good returns on that, you know. So the athlete can really just show up and not worry about anything but training and academics and and that's right, that's, that's a huge win-win. You know, my, my norwegian athlete came last year and you travel internationally, you travel, you travel right, you travel small, so he didn't bring a lot of stuff. And so he showed up and like the first day he calls me up and he says I only got like a short, a pair of shorts and a T-shirt. And so we went into our storage room and, you know, you know, gratefully, we had Adidas inventory and we fit them for some shoes and some gear and a racing pack, so jackets. So we we gave him, you know, basically everything he needed to uh, to compete and train, which is awesome. So here we are today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing, man. I mean I have so many questions and so many things to like kind of start with here, but I think one of the ones I want to start with, in my opinion, is like just how amazing it's been that it's basically developed into this feeder program. I mean, first you've got Josh, obviously, brian, now Cole Campbell's on the scene and he's running pro for Adidas. Like it's just so interesting to me. I just I don't know, because I don't see any other schools doing anything even similar Like how did you were you with Adidas first and then you were able to recruit Adidas over to help do that, like as a professional athlete? Like how did that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's, it's a. It's a funny story, um, when I joined the program in 2015,. You know, we don't go to any of these college races, right, it's. It's not inter, inter collegiate, uh sports that we do. So we, we got to go to Pike's peak, ascent over by you. We need to go to garden of the gods, we need to go to sage burner. You know, moab races, um, and compete in the open race.
Speaker 2:So one of the races we used to do is the. Have you heard of the? You've heard of the grand traverse, right, of course, running from from crested butte to aspen. So they do a ski one, two and a bike one. But this is the run one that we, we used to do back in the day. Um, it was early season, early fall, so 41 miles and um two. Maybe it was 2016, 2017, maybe we were over there and you know you have.
Speaker 2:We're at the finish line waiting for athletes to come over from aspen, and you got all those field reps right setting up the tents and whatnot, and at that time, the title sponsor was adidas, adidas tarrix for grand traverse, and so they set up a tent in their shoes and stuff. And you know, you're 18 to 22 years old. You see some free gear, you know, and you're at a finish line. What's the first thing you do? You go up to them and ask them for free stuff, right, and so it was funny. Actually, the director that's part of our program program right now, kevin geisen, he was one of my athletes at the time and he was the one who was, like you know, leading the charge of going up to this rep and saying, hey, we need to get some free shoes and free hats, and you know. So the the rep at the time was lauren uh, moore's head. He lived in aspen, he's a, he works for adidas and um, you know, gave him a bunch of free stuff. But that was our sort of connection. He gave me a card and he gave me his card. He's like yeah, man, let's, let's work out something. I can give you a coupon code. You know, help you guys out with some product. And um, sort of one thing led to another. Like that was the starting point. I sent him the resume, I sent him mountain sports, and then they really liked my sort of running resume, so they added me to their team.
Speaker 2:You know, their real early years, back in the day, back in the day and then from there, I just I started going on, you know, these international trips and talking to the big man above at Adidas and really didn't know what I did and had this other team environment and really saw an opportunity to make it right a partnership to help us provide gear and product and feedback to these, to these athletes, and and and to really market right the us marketplace as well. Because you got to remember, back in 2017, 18, not many people heard about adidas terex. Right, that was their outdoor brand that they rebranded, you know, from adidas outdoors to adidas terex. So they, you rebranded, you know, from Adidas Outdoors to Adidas Terex.
Speaker 2:So they, you know it took them, you know, five, six, seven years and finally, last couple of years, they've been really pushing the US market for promotion and marketing. But back then, it was always, you know, east Europe that they were sort of marketing and in Asia that was a sort of marketplace. But we just sort of a right place at the right time and then, um have have have been partners ever since, which is really cool Um, that they've they've shouted quite a few times for my athletes to travel internationally over to, uh, austria, gastein Valley, for the infinite trails, which was really cool. I think we sent um two or three teams over there in the last, the last little bit, and just that opportunity for nine athletes from a collegiate level to travel international and to keep you know, compete against you know these these other trail athletes is yeah, you know, opportunities of advancement for for a lot of these guys and gals.
Speaker 2:So, um, really cool to be a part of and really cool to see that it's not a transactional partnership. You know, it's not just a, uh, eight month or 12 month and like, see, uh, they, they realize this is a, a, this is a long-term investment and partnership that we got to really contribute and invest a lot and trust sort of our, our process, of what we're doing to build these, these athletes on the the us collegiate side and and again, like, yeah, I, I've been promoting this for such a long time that other colleges why don't other colleges have have this? And you know, I'm, I'm almost at a point of, just right, whatever we're we're doing, fine, we're getting a lot of athletes coming in and I think it's just really hard for them to visualize, uh, financially to put on right another trail running team team. Like we have an NCAA cross country and track team. Why do we need a trail team? Sort of thing. So I, I, I don't think they really, um, really understand the value of having this, this trail team, this alternative to NCAA, you know team environment, of how special it is for you know the early years of mountain sports, the first four, five, six years, um, we're all privately funded.
Speaker 2:So every year we had to reach out to private donors and try to, you know, cross our fingers to hope that they would.
Speaker 2:They would write the check and then we would finalize our schedule each of the sports. But that's hard to do, right, you got to write. Then everything changes and sometimes they don't write as big as a check as you think. And so, finally, with tutelage of Duncan Callahan, showing the value of the board of directors at Western of how important this program is for the school 140 athletes at Mountain Sports and the retention a lot of them are out-of-staters, uh, great, great GPAs one of the highest GPAs out of all programs and including NCAA. And so they saw that value of whoa. We better invest in these guys in this program. So that was basically the turning point of of Western, of really um valuing our, our, our program that we've been building from the ground up. And of course we still get some private donors right. But our, our, our, our financial part is really due to um, the, the Western, the college, um giving us a budget each year to fulfill our program.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, man. Can you, can you talk a little bit to inside, so like, let's say, maybe inside baseball? On the program, I'm just curious how many athletes do you guys have on the trail-specific team at any given time? And then also, what is that recruitment process like? Do you go and find athletes, or are they ringing you up at this point, calling your phone to try and get into the program? How does that work? Yeah?
Speaker 2:So back in the day, you know, numbers are, are, are increasing for sure. It's right during COVID that everything, everyone, everything sort of shrunk up. You know we had, you know, eight to 10 to 12 athletes. You know, um early years we had uh 20, 25 athletes. Uh, last fall I had 35 athletes on my fall roster, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and it's, and it's, you know, it's probably 60, 40, right, uh, male to female, uh, 65, maybe, um, so it's, it's not, you know, right, it's, it's pretty, even, um, so what's cool about it is in the fall we have that's, that's our main season for the trail running, of course, right In Colorado. So we take advantage of that and not a lot of other sports and mountain sports have have have other things going on except mountain biking. So a lot of my athletes focus on that trail running all the way through Thanksgiving and then come Thanksgiving we have about half of our athletes migrate to sort of a winter sport. So your ski, mountaineering, nordic, you know, alpine, free ride most of them is just the Nordic and schema athletes that I have on the team, but a few years ago I did have a free ride guy that did some trail running and then I hold about 18 to 22 of them through the winter and the spring. So it is a full nine-month cycle that we do full year for them at school, for them to practice, and of course in the winter, wintertime, we got to get a little creative, getting out the valley and going to races, maybe going to the front range. Yeah, you know doing some fun things and uh, but mainly we try to go west of town and hit montrose and we hit, um, you know, delta, and then we hit moab for a lot of the races too, because it's pretty convenient four hours away. And so your other question with recruiting you know we used to go to the state meet, the cross country meet, at Penrose Stadium every year and we set up a, you know a tent mountain sports tent. We handed out, like you know, terex gear and we, you know, shirts and hoodies and hats and and uh, pamphlets about our program and uh, I did I haven't done it in the last year just due to conflicts and like racing, and we'll probably do it again this next year for sure.
Speaker 2:I don't want to get away from that. I think exposure, uh and impressions is really important, but, um, that was really our, our only like really recruiting. You know, more of a marketing ploy, not really. I'm going up there like NCAA and actually recruiting certain athletes. A lot of them tend to just sort of come to us and to us from sort of what we've been creating, you know from and it looks great to them right.
Speaker 2:A lot of these high school coaches I'll talk to and I get their numbers and they understand exactly what I'm talking about when I say understand exactly what I'm talking about when I say, hey, we need some runners, or actually, you know, let me rewind they actually say I have five runners, ncaa quality, that want to run NCAA. I got six other athletes that love running and love cross country but don't want to do the NCAA. That's right. That's sort of our avatar there. That's our audience that we want to sort of bring in because we don't want to be an NCAA program. That's not. That's not the draw of why these athletes are coming over.
Speaker 2:You know we have fun in the mountains and at the same time, we introduce really good work, ethic and structure. But a lot of this is just sort of word of mouth. The articles that are out there, the podcasts, like you, the friends just start to trickle in and people recognize it and you do a simple search online. You know trail running in college. We're the basically the only one who who comes up. So I think you know, as trail running gets more popular and mainstream, um, I, I don't really have to be active recruiting these athletes, right. I, I can control that funnel coming in based on, based on needs and and their wants and stuff.
Speaker 1:so dude, I imagine, as the sport continues to grow, and especially like I don't know, one of the things I was just going to say is just the power of the branding for you guys, like from a western perspective, just because, like I mean, before you and I have chatted and you know and and had this conversation, like I would see, obviously, you guys showed up to Pike's Ascent, you guys will show up to Broken Arrow, you know, you'll see, I think I can remember Cole a couple of years ago, over the years at the 46K running in a Western jersey, right, and it's like the power of this Browning with Western and then me on the front range getting to knowieran, nay, brian whitfield, all these other guys that kind of came up through, you know, have one tie to western or another. It's just interesting to me the power of the branding and how I would imagine, as the as the sport continues to grow and gets more popular, you're gonna have people like knocking down your door to get, to come get a spot there.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's just a matter of time, dude, like you know it's, it's pretty cool it is cool and it's a good testament of what, what we've built right, you know, and, and really it's about, really you know, the. The program's not about the, the results yeah, the results matter, but more than anything it's it's about getting these kids in and getting them in this process and realizing to enjoy this process of structure and work, ethic and dedication of something that they can control right on a daily basis with their goals and their choices they make. So it's great to see a kid coming in as a freshman and really committing to the sport and watching this kid or this athlete grow in two years, three years, four years, five years, and what they are, the maturity and the growth of how they came in to where they came out. So it's a really cool process of right, um, um, making sure we're not overloading the athlete with all these different stressors.
Speaker 2:You know I've been doing this a long time and I have a pretty good knowledge of, you know of, of my, you know my, my athletes that are coming in and um, you know I'm I'm going to treat, you know, some athletes a little differently, on, on, on mileage and intensity and um, whereas some of my other athletes I got to have that fine balance right and make sure once they come up through right the ranks, then it's it's time to sort of put them more on a pedestal and learn from these other athletes, which is cool. So it's really. We're at a really good spot right now in our program where we're not rebuilding anymore, and my old coach, a college coach, used to say this all the time you get into the spot. That's really special in any program that we're just reloading every year.
Speaker 2:Right, we're loading those athletes and those other older athletes are teaching the younger athletes and it's just that, that awesome cycle, um, yeah it is, and in some years, you, some years, a lot of the seniors leave, and then then you are left with actually rebuilding something right from um, from the new athletes coming up. But once you have that cycle, man, it is I, I step back and I'm just like I'm just letting it sort of go on autopilot. Right, I show up, I give them workouts, I talk to them a lot, but, um, but than anything, it's the athletes really motivating me, each other. You know they, they look at you know our, our higher end athletes that graduated the program and and they they follow in their footsteps and it's it's. It's a pretty cool. It's a pretty cool cool place to be, cause I'm not like forcing anything down their throat. Yeah Right, it's.
Speaker 1:It's the motivation and driver that the team wants to create. It's a really neat process. Well, it's that high expectation when you have all these guys and gals that came to the program they're all elite, so many of them it's a high expectation to have to live up. You got to live up to that, especially if I'm I don't know if I'm someone that's a freshman or going into that program like that's the first thing I want to do is I want to be, you know, the next Keira Ney, brian Whitfield, cole Campbell, whatever you know what I'm saying. Like I think there's just it creates that just evolution of people holding themselves to a high standard to continue get better, which is pretty dope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and again. Like I want to really stress it is it is not like all about the results, you know, it's not all about creating the coals or the jashes, definitely not, like I have a. I have a lot of athletes that come in that have different goals and ambitions. They, they all don't want to come and be the next jash and they don't, they just don't want to do that. But they love the work ethic, they love the trails, they love the mountains and they love running right and they love the team environment. So I got to be aware of that, of of making sure. Uh, that's the appeal, that's the draw of why they came in here and I I don't want to be like here's the requirements to be on our team, right, yeah, you know, I, I, I had this.
Speaker 2:I had this one girl that this is her second year and she's from colorado springs. It's actually karen's sister, um maria. She was a dancer for so her whole entire life. She had little to no running experience at all and she came into our program last year from a dancing background and she absolutely fell in love with our program and now, going on her second year, she's one of my top leaders of the team, she's like the glue to everything. The team, she's like the glue to everything and and it's, it's really cool to see that like, yeah, you got some top athletes, but you got that motivation from all sides right with all the same sort of goals, with cheering each other along, which is really neat to see. So, um, really cool, really cool on all levels of, of fitness can fit in and and it can work towards one single sort of thread goal of enjoying nature and outdoors and competing Right.
Speaker 1:How does the training work? I think I'm trying to understand that Like do you just give like where you have like structured workouts that you just give them every week and you can? You will do it as a team or you can do it on your own. Like, how does how does that aspect work, like getting together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, so the big thing. And again, when I talk to a lot of athletes that want to like be a part of the team prospective athletes are recruiting I make sure to to tell them, you know, this is a time commitment and this is really a team environment. You know, there's no reason to be on a team if you don't want to be on a team, right, right. So I really, I really try to drive that, drive that home to all these athletes. If you want to show up and sort of do your own thing and you have your own schedule and you have your own workouts, guess what? The team, this team, is not meant for you.
Speaker 2:You know there's been a few athletes like that and, uh, it didn't, it didn't work out, just because we thrive on on the team. So, yeah, I provide them with, uh, with structured workouts every day. I give them a range of you know where they're at on fitness levels and, and you know, for today we actually have a workout. Today it's uh, four, three, two, one, one, one one and just efforts. So really, it's natural I give them expectations and objectives of of of what I want them to hit. Uh, but I'm not necessarily at the track saying you got to hit these mile paces. It's it's a lot more just effort-based and I think that works really well with uh.
Speaker 2:Um, all calibers of athlete you know try to hone into the effort that you're doing, right, um. So um, it's been, it's been working so far with uh. With you know, I never do really mileage, it's always just on duration, especially when you integrate trails and mountains and you know different fitness ranges. So it's always sort of on a on a slider of uh you know 60 to 70 minutes today, or you know 92, two hours on your long run, stuff like that. Um, but I got to be cognizant of of or aware of of some of these athletes. Not all of them come from a high school structured program. So some of those athletes, yes, they understand the workout structure and the stresses that come along with it. But I also got to be aware of um other athletes and being a little more cautious of how much I give them and make sure I, I, I, um, well, whoops, we're all.
Speaker 1:No, you're good, I can still hear you.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can still hear it Okay.
Speaker 1:So here you're just frozen, you're good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um yeah, just be be aware of I'm not overloading them with with too much, with too much stress and volume and intensity. Uh, I've done that before and and again. It's just I'm always learning as a coach of of of trying to figure out, um, the best way forward for all, all calibers of athletes. So it's not just a one thing for the whole group and a lot of these athletes they can take it as serious or not as serious as they want. The big thing I want them to be is a good team player and I want them to have good work, ethic and be a nice person and human being. And if they can do that and come to practice, that's all we're asking for. Right, I don't need expectations for any kind of requirements to. You got to hit a mile in this or two mile in that. It's really about those sort of three drivers of character building and discipline.
Speaker 1:I love it. Man, let's talk about the schedule a little bit. Like picking, picking like a like, so for like a race schedule, right, so like obviously you guys have like sage burner, that's right down the road. Like you have a lot of like different races. You have some in moab, broken arrows, coming up in june. Like how will you pick the calendar? Is it like more? So well, we'll all do this as a team and we'll go to this and like where it's elective, like how does that work for going to a race? Like do you teach them how to taper and all these different things. Like to get ready for this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, we, you know, I do, I do periodize, right, we have our fall season and then we have our winter season and then we have our our spring season too. Spring season to our winter and spring season is sort of combined into one. But, yeah, absolutely I try to have, you know, a season where they're building up, that we have some training races where they can work on, you know, mastering their craft, mastering pacing, mastering technical trails, you know mastering fueling. You know that's a big thing now for you know some of that longer stuff. So, um, we try to go through all this stuff right during practice so it's a little easier. Uh, at the end, and then usually at the end of you know the fall or the end of the spring, we usually have a bigger event and that's where I really try to taper the athletes and try to build that one up. So it's mainly just me talking to the athletes and trying to build our calendar.
Speaker 2:What we've done before our relationships with race directors Um, we had a really good relationship with, um, the old Pikes Peak uh, race director Jordan, right, you know her. So unfortunately she's not a part of Pikes Peak anymore, but you know those types of relationships. We have a really good relationship with Mad Moose. You know the Rick's family that have you know, given us great discounts and you know the ease of registering. You know 30 athletes and working with us is so huge. So really it's me just sort of putting together a schedule that, um, that will challenge them, that will sometimes be different, that will have fun, right, not every race needs to be right, uh, a based in Cirque series, even though we open up with that every every fall. And that's a good, yeah, that's a good one that we just opened up one and that sets the tone for the entire season of like hell, yeah, you know, like that's good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:So six series it's just such high energy and you know Julian is doing such a bang up job, uh with that. So that's like a good sort of taste of like our trail, our trail program at the beginning of season. But we don't, you know, we don't always in the fall, we don't always just go to races either. I usually pick two or three weekends where we do some team camps as well. And some of our team camps are like we had one at Leadville this year. We had three days at Leadville. We did, you know, albert, we did Massive, we did Hope Pass, we did Turquoise Lake. You know all the big. You know fun, low stress. You know mainly just exploratory runs and I think that really bonds. You know the team really well with each other and get to know each other.
Speaker 2:You know we went to Grand Canyon again in the fall and we tried to go there. You know every year, every other year, the San Juans, we do a big San Juan trip out there and we hit some 14ers and hit the hot springs. So not every weekend is right a race opportunity. Some of the weekends are more hey, let's go get some time on our feet, let's go explore mount sneffles and it'll take us five or six hours, but right, we will hike, we'll run, we'll eat.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, we'll just explore out there, and I think that really balances a lot of these athletes, and especially those high ones, those high caliber ones that don't push themselves too hard, that right, that realize this is why they got into running in the first place. This is, this is why we get to the top of, you know, these mountain ranges and we look around and we go. You know, this is exactly why I chose trail running, just for this, to be you in the moment and to be a little more closer to nature. And it's just, it's really cool to see on their, their faces, all the athletes. It gives them so much more motivation and purpose for, for showing up, and, and, and, and and working hard.
Speaker 1:It's a soul sport man. I think that's the beauty of it too, is like it's a soul sport. It's no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And again, the draw right, the draw from why they, they saw these cool videos on Instagram or or you know articles. You know I want to do that.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go to the track and run 400 repeats right you know I I don't want that sort of right, that so identity and again, a lot of these I've had. You know this is my 10th year. I've had 13, 14 athletes from the ncaa side come over and join. You know us on on the mountain sports trail running sign and that's the coolest part of this thing too. Like they, they come to western on scholarship, most of them to run ncaa. Within a year or so they they realize this is either too much or this isn't what I was expecting, right and but they, they want to continue to run. They come over to our program within a couple of weeks. They're completely rejuvenated and it's really cool to see those successes that they see in trail running to keep them going and showing up on my team that no problem can get into a lot of NCAA programs. But they chose Western's trail running program because of our environment that we're building here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, dude, I think it's so special man. I do have a question related to Because, for those on the team that are interested in competing, maybe at a really high level after they graduate, will you like, for instance, because this year is a special year, because, like broken arrow is the us mountain running champs with the ascent, there's a golden trail series race in the 23k and then you have got soon a p for the up down like, will you take them to either of those selection races to get exposure and kind of see what that's all about? Like, for the people that are curious about that in.
Speaker 2:In years past we, we have gone to mountain sport, mountain, uh, mountain champs. When it was out in New Hampshire and a few years ago we we went there. It just if it, if it lines up well with our season, then we do it. Broken arrow in the past. You know, this year, every year, broken arrow gets more and more competitive. Yeah and um, it's, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I have a good relationship with, with the race director and, but there's limited bibs that he can give out, right, yeah, so you know he understands our program, he respects our program, but with it being right, so many championships in the three day weekend, it's really tough to give out all these bids to my athletes that want might be there. I'm signed up for the vertical myself, um, but we are not taking a big group to broken arrow for that reason, because we didn't get those bibs and, um, they could get on the waiting list and we could see, uh, but what we usually like to do is take them there and then hang out that whole week and then hang out and watch Western state, right, western states and crew that, especially with the Tareks crew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, and I think that's that's so special, Like for a young athlete to be able to see like it's not just about the tracks, Like there's this weird crazy sport that we do Some people run a hundred miles, some people run a VK and there's options. Like I love that, Like to be able to show someone young that there is more options than just the track.
Speaker 2:Uh is really cool, you know, and oh man, those, those, those races yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Like those races that we go to, sometimes we it aligns perfectly. We go to Leadville 100. That's the beginning of school and we go out thereville 100, that's the beginning of school, and we go out there and we run and we sort of watch and and follow the race and then that that is a whole nother right sort of learning experience for these kids to really navigate to. And again, this year we'll probably get a lot of athletes, or a handful of them, to go to Western States and and chair and crew with the Terex crew as well. So we won't do the broken arrow as a big team, maybe one or two athletes, but the Western States most likely we'll send out a few so we can sort of follow and and and and just accrue the race. It's, you know, and to have that experience at that young of an age. They leave home with that and they think, holy cow, this is, this is. I want to do that someday.
Speaker 1:I want to train for a hundred miler.
Speaker 2:This is like so cool to be a part of. You know something bigger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's special man. I love that, what you guys are creating with it. I do have like a personal question for you with it, though. As a coach and as the leader of this how do you balance also being a professional athlete in the sport? Is it difficult to balance both of those things? You have your own goals and your own races and things that you want to do as well, and, I'm sure, your own professional aspirations, while also being the guy and managing this whole thing Like. What is that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not bad. You know, after, after 10 years, you get, you get used to it and you figure out a good system. So you know, me, me and buddy Duncan, we we run together almost every morning. You know, this morning we we met up and, you know, did a workout. So it's it's.
Speaker 2:I try to get all my my serious stuff in in the morning and and then usually in the afternoons I try to, you know, either jump on a trainer or something to break up some stuff or, uh, if I want to participate in one of their, their fun workouts. I usually don't run or work out with them as much anymore just because I got a lot of other stuff. I'm trying to sort of manage, uh, logistics and whatnot. Um, but I I always, you know, navigating that isn't so hard, like you were, you were sort of turning to it's. It's quite, quite easy and actually enjoyable for me.
Speaker 2:I'm usually doing really similar training to them and so, and a lot of the races I do as well. So that really helps me as a coach to identify, like you know, how they're recovering from certain races. You know, we just got back from red hot, which was a big moab race and a lot of it's on hard slick rock, and we're we're coming from Gunnison where we don't have, you know, a lot of trail access in the winter time, so it's a lot of snow running and right little concrete running yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so when you go to somewhere like Moab, your body, your legs get just completely thrashed, and so doing those races and that training with them really helps me as a coach. To identify like, maybe I shouldn't prescribe, you know, this training, uh, today, because of how I'm feeling from recovery. So, um, it's, it's a, it's a fun balance and it, you know, being around those kids is so enjoyable, getting to know them as human beings and and really you know the personality and character. I think it really helps me thrive and and it keeps me young as well, right, you're you're around 18 to 22 year olds, it's like it's just.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's really good energy. You know, even though they tease me a lot, it's still OK. You know, there's this old guy like I'm kidding, yeah, well, well, josh, josh was the king of that. He, he was the king of of teasing me almost every week, and but you know, I just brushed it off and uh, you know, let's go run, let's go do something, and you know, it's fun.
Speaker 1:That's funny. It was. I think it was Brian Whitfield. He said the funniest story to me when he came on the podcast. He was like I think Josh Eberle thought I was a bum. It's like that's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Well, you, you, you, you don't. You don't know these. I didn't. I didn't think he was a bum at all. No, but you don't know these kids that first year. And that's the cool thing, right? You're not judging the book by the cover. So getting them to know them it's really cool and it's fun to see that growth in all the athletes from year one to year four or year two to year four to see what they come out to be.
Speaker 1:It's cool, so what? Let me ask you this.
Speaker 2:So, besides, the broken arrow ascent. What do you have on your personal schedule for the summer? Um, well, I'm going to. We got um Salida this weekend, the run through time. We got that one coming up on Saturday. And then we have our big spring race, which is, uh, zion Ultras, um and um, we have a 60k and a 30k. I I signed up for the 60k, so I'll be doing something a little longer. And then from there, basically, we have uh, gopro games. We have that coming up in June. Um, we, we, like, I said we won't, I won't go over to. Uh, is it Sunapee this year? Right, the up and down year won't be doing that because I think it's just too close for for GoPro. Um, and then I'll do broken arrow. I have a, I have a register, I have a ticket for silver rush, the 50 miler Um, and I'm right now I'm just trying to figure out another, another sort of big race to do, sort of in the, in the in the fall, uh, in the summer fall. So, um, not anything, right, crazy big international right now.
Speaker 2:Uh, I definitely like staying a little more stateside, I like bringing the family along, as you know, as I travel. I think that's a big. Another big thing about we're on that as a, as an athlete and a person. I got two kids, got an amazing wife and it's just so hard to write, to leave for that long. But, being stateside, we can drive to most places, you know, you know, we, we stayed over on the west coast for such a long time, uh, last year, and we traveled the whole way up it, all the way to Oregon, and it was just so beautiful, you know, along the way.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, I'm trying to figure out something, I'm trying to figure out something, I'm trying to figure out something, but again, I, I, I, I try to get through right, be in the moment and try not to think too too far in the future. But it's, it's, it's. It's a weird situation we're in right now because you got to be on top of it, otherwise you can't get into some of these races unless you have the insider right. So it's sort of like this right, this little little catch 22, that I'm in Well, dude.
Speaker 1:The reason I ask is because, well, if you, uh, if you want to bring some people to Pikes, I'm on the. I just got named to the board of Pikes, so I know there's been some changes in the RDs and stuff like that. But a center marathon, whatever you guys want to do, let's make that. Let's make that happen. Bring some athletes out, and it'd be cool to get a group out there. It'd be super fun. Keep the keep that going.
Speaker 2:That'd be great. The pikes is awesome just to be around that a big, a big race environment like that and we we camp. We usually camp right there, right into town and um, yeah, last year was a little tricky because of the snow that second day. But yeah, you know, it's convenient, it works out. Have a great time. But yeah, thanks for the offer. For sure we can definitely talk off air about logistics and what. Maybe we can work out again for another Pikes Peak, because that really last year was really tough for right. I think I listened to your, your pod the other day and she was at pikes peak, um, what's her first?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah yeah, flannery about, and we were there too right, and I had I had a handful of athletes that are really, really good at that technical part and they basically turn around right before that, and so it was just like her, it was right. It was sort of like oh, dang it.
Speaker 2:Exactly and, and, but they made the best out of it and they ran really good. But again, some of these athletes really liked the technical mountaineering aspect and they thrive off of that stuff. And then some of my athletes are more like that runner based and they don't like a ton of technical stuff. So, um, but yeah, that was a tough one to swallow, pill to swallow, but again, a big organization like you guys have it's safety first. Right, I got it. You got to understand and respect everyone in the in the race, not just you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's. It's a tricky one, man. I almost wonder, like at that point, if they should have just canceled the darn thing just because, like it would I don't know I got more negative feedback than I think that I was expecting. I think the other question is and this is for a whole nother conversation is do we, do we work on trying to move it back to August, cause that's what it seems like everybody wants? Everybody's like no more September, like let's do an August race, just because I don't know I don't know if it's the we just get way more snow storms. The weather's been crazier the last few years, so it's like kind of a you're rolling the dice in the high country in in late September. It makes it tricky. So I don't know. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I would hate for it to happen again this year and then we get more people like being upset. So I don't know, especially for the 70th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be, I'll, I'll, I'll be biased because if it is earlier than you know, if it's middle of August, it would be tough for us to come. Yeah, so again, not like that's your decision, but it's set up really well for our schedule okay, oh well, that's good to know, that's good to know.
Speaker 2:But like, uh, you know we start school the last week of august and that's when our season starts. It's really hard to get all the athletes here earlier than than than school, just because of conflicts and whatever and housing and stuff. So again, not not to say that's like a reason to go off of, but you know I will play.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it's just yeah no, I was going to say I will play devil's advocate, cause it is awesome that, like you get that like tune up at Cirque series, a basin which I feel like, like Joe, quite a lot of people go and race a basin before they go to Pikes. It's because it's like that high altitude, stimulus, high octane, a hard race just before and it's like a week or two before the Pikes Peak. So that works too, man, that's good stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah, it's interesting. Now, all right. So I want to transition. I usually start with like origin stories in the beginning of the podcast, but one of the things I feel like I kind of brushed around and it didn't really like fully jump into or immerse into was like your backstory. Um no, I know you said you were in Michigan for a little bit training for Hanson's, but like, what is your, what is your relationship with? Like how early did you get started with running? And like, just give me like a just a five minute elevator pitch on like some of your running background.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but pretty. You know, traditional in the old sense of. You know a lot of the athletes that you talk to never really set out to be runners, right, they set out to be a basketball player or a baseball player, and then and then running was secondary. So you know, I started out high school, middle school, just all about basketball and then a lot of politics involved in basketball. You know, short, long story short, the the coach is. The coach was dad of one of the popular kids and I wasn't part of his group in high school. So when I tried out, I thought I tried out and I did well, and I wasn't part of his group in high school. So when I tried out, I thought I tried out and I did well, but I wasn't in his friend group, so I wasn't on the team. So I was just thinking to myself okay, well, what sport can I pick that is pretty black and white, with, you know, tape measure or stopwatch. And I thought I thought to myself well, running is perfect, because you either run the time or you don't. It's pretty, or you jump the, you know the distance and or you don't. So in my head you know there's obviously some politics involved on a higher level. But for me in that year I was just like, yeah, let's go all in at running and, and, uh, I was real mediocre average runner in high school. I think I was 10, 10, uh, two mile four, 34 in the mile. Um, I, I was second to last place in the two mile at air force around your neck of the woods and I, um, I was walking back to the, to the tents, to see my coaches and, uh, the, the coach from western state at the time, uh, duane vandenbush, came up to me, introduced himself and said you know, uh, you ran tough and I see a lot of potential out of you. Here's my number to. He called me every weekend and and really gaslit me into going to Western. You know, I didn't get a scholarship. I didn't get a scholarship till my, my third year, my junior year, but he was an incredible recruiter and that was basically how I got into the system.
Speaker 2:Then I was at Western, my freshman year. I got kicked off the team because of the bad choices. That was a real wake-up call for me that it wasn't bad luck, it was more of understanding, wait. I got to be accountable for myself and make good choices and hang out with the right people. Right, you always hear that, right, you're the average of the people you hang out with. The right people. Right, you always hear that, right, you're, you're the average of the people you hang out with. So, um, I I didn't realize that then until I got kicked off the team and then I really woke up and said I got to really, um, get my, my, my cards together. So, um, from there, basically, I started running, more focused on diet, did all the team stuff and and every year just saw progress and one thing led to another, with, you know, national championship teams and individual and awards and all that stuff coming after it. And then after college, just more or less wanted to continue running. And, um, um, I made I made the world team in 2004 for the cross-country uh championships in belgium and when I was out there I was, you know whatever, pretty young at the time, 22 I think, um 24, 24 and uh, kevin and keith hansen were out there because richie brinker made the team as well.
Speaker 2:We were roommates and and they came in one day, kevin and keith, and they, they looked at the whole us roster and they said you're the only one that's not sponsored out of, you know, the 4k and the 12k, because back then they used to have the, the two distances for world world champs. And so they, they, they, you know, gave me an offer and they said come out to Rochester, we'll show you what we have for the Hansons and um, we'll hope to, you know, have a good partnership. And so, after, after worlds, I went out there and I liked what I saw and signed a contract with them and met a lot of great people. I learned a lot about myself, especially, you know, marathon roads. So I, you know, I, had a huge marathon road track, sort of post-collegiate run, until, you know, 2012, 2013.
Speaker 2:And then I started getting into uh, it was Tiva mountain games back in the day, not GoPro mountain games so I went to there and I had success and, um, and then one thing led to another, I was just more inclined of, you know, um, getting more into the trail running and the ultras.
Speaker 2:And then I, yeah, it all just sort of culminated together, you know, even though I made 2012, the Olympic trials, the marathon trials, and then, well, that'd be 2016. I made that one as well. Basically, off of the road, they lowered their standards, I don't know, if you remember, they lowered their standards in 2016 because they didn't have enough people, and I was one of the people that were like 20 seconds within the standard, and so I got a phone call basically with two months or something to go before the trials and said hey, you're qualified for Olympic trials, we'd love to have you here. And I was like I'm not even in shape, I haven't been doing much and it was in the middle of winter and so, yeah, that basically got me through to the Olympic trials for the marathon and now it's just yeah, my love for the trails and mountains. I don't even think about the roads anymore. My passion is really just in um, in the mountain runs and and the ultra scene, for sure. So about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, what a story man. I gotta ask you this because I'm so curious. I think I ask everybody this question Is there a race that you haven't done yet, like a series in all, or is our gamma or what it could be, whatever, is there something like?
Speaker 2:you have as a bucket list, bucket list race still left in the sport that you want to do. Oh, yeah, yeah, you know there's so many right. I listen to a lot of your pods. There's so many right. Those bucket list ones, Like it it was. I filled one of my bucket list a few years ago at utmb. I did the the occ that was, you know water race oh, my god, it's everything you.
Speaker 2:You see that it is, and even more when you're there experiencing it and of course I was, you know, with, with the whole terex family, you know it's, it's just completely mind-blowing the atmosphere, the energy, the whole european vibe running through those mountains, um, so that was a huge thing, the huge bucket list. I got off my list. Um, you know, one of the one of the races that I've been thinking about is, yeah, the sears and all that you mentioned.
Speaker 2:Not to steal what you just just said, but I am, I am, I don't know you probably shouldn't say this on camera, but one of my strengths is just uphill running and and and Sears and all right is all uphill for whatever it is 16, 17 miles and so I think I could probably fare pretty well because I love just grinding on the uphill when you start to sprinkle in a lot of that technical and the downhill stuff. Again, I probably shouldn't say this on camera, but I'm not the best at that and I don't really that doesn't draw me. You know the hard rocks and stuff like that where I'm hiking around and jumping down rocks. I'm more of like you know, that Leadville 100 type of type of runner. So, um, yeah, so interesting man.
Speaker 1:Now I had to ask you I'm just so curious, what with now, with this period in your life now, both as a coach and as an athlete? I'm curious to see, like, what is your, what's your relationship with, like with competition, just because, like you had this like crazy career on the roads and, um, you know, on the track as well. Like, how do you reconcile competition for yourself? Are you an extremely competitive person still or no?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to say, and again, like no offense at all, every time I hear you say this in your pod, I laugh and I'm like, I'm like dude. I think most everyone at a.
Speaker 2:and yeah right, there's different levels of competition too, right, you know, but I'm, I'm super competitive with anything sort of I do in life.
Speaker 2:It's like, you know, when you have, when you have kids and you're playing, you know, horse or pig with them for basketball, you know, you want to win, you know, but again, again, different levels, levels, right of where you're at. So you know, and sometimes I do workouts with the team, races with the team, and you know, I, I, I gotta, I gotta focus on myself and them and showing them that you know that I'm doing this for the right reason too, to not really not trying to show off at any means at all, but, um, really, like you put a lot of effort into it and you can do pretty well, and that's my whole thing with with competing, if I do a workout and not trying to compete with with them and try to leave them in the dust, because a lot of them can leave me in the dust for sure. So, yeah, it's a funny question that you asked, but, yeah, super competitive, I think yeah.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting one. It's always interesting. I love seeing how people think, because you get some of those people that are straight up like yes, I'm the most competitive person you'll ever meet in your life. Then you get some people that are like coy, you know that'll play, play it a little, but then you see, like the levels, like I think it was who the hell was telling me. I think it was someone telling like describing taylor stack. It was like taylor's one of those people that like will lock himself in a room and then come back. Come back when he's ready to crush you yeah, kade michaels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like man.
Speaker 1:That's a different like that was the one that stuck out to me is like that is the most craziest one I've ever heard someone say like that's interesting yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:So again, not like, keep asking that question, but I I will laugh every time you ask it and and and hope for a different answer. You know, but it's funny. Yeah, I can't wait to hear the one person that says they're not. I will laugh every time you ask it and and and hope for a different answer. You know, but it's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't wait to hear the one person that says they're not competitive.
Speaker 2:We'll see if we get that one ever.
Speaker 1:I have not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:All right, man. So as we start winding down, we're at about an hour 15 now. Uh, I'm very curious to see who inspires you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. You know it's a good question with. You know where you're at in life, right, my early years, right, you sort of. You know some teammates, my coach, you know certain athletes that you you read about and that you you train with all the time. You know that inspires me.
Speaker 2:You know transitioning to family stuff now is, is is a lot family-based. You know my, my dad inspires me, my wife inspires me, my kids, the athletes on the team inspire me. So you know it's, you know, um, it's, it's interesting where you're at sort of in in life and how how it changes so much. Right, um, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty neat process to sit back and and, um and think, uh, think, who sort of got you here right? And there's so many.
Speaker 2:My coach back at Western, definitely a huge inspiration. Michael Ish, he was a huge inspiration at Western, helping me figure out the whole training thing and how to train hard, me figure out the whole training thing and how to train hard and um, and then and then in my Hanson years when I was there, Brian sell, you know that guy. I lived with him for a year, a couple of years, and training with him every day was just a complete inspiration about, like how he treats how he treats training and how he treats being in the moment in life and enjoying those interactions with community and friends. So one thing I do really realize is you can't take yourself too serious, right? You got to sit back and laugh at yourself a few times. No one's perfect A lot of imperfections out there but when it's time to grind, it's time to grind, but you don't have to be that way off the court, so to say, and I think that's a valuable lesson for most people.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful answer, man. It's a great one too. I love seeing all the different people that like inspire you, especially as you get older. Like, different people have different inspirations, right, like it's you know, as a father and as you know, as a husband. All these different things you know come into play as you change as a person and get inspired. So it's, it's beautiful. Just before you get ready for a race, I'm curious to see, like what's your walkout song man? Like what do you? What do you? What are you listening to before a race? Like what's what's in those earphones?
Speaker 2:well, I will be honest with you, a lot of the races I I don't, like you know, back in my early days, yeah, we used to get in the van with the team and and crank up, like you know, know your enemy freaking right, just just, you know, volume 11, just go crazy. Um, however, I don't know, the last probably 10 years, it's more of like going to these races. I feel, I swear to God, I feel so much energy and adrenaline, just being there, right, the whole process of warming up, seeing the race announcement, hearing the music, warming up with your friends. So I like that sort of energy and I try to live in the moment there. So in the races I usually try not to put on anything to get me a little disturbed of where, where I want to be.
Speaker 2:But again, I'm a huge music lover, of live music. I love music, like this morning on my workout I had Dave and Tim Dave Matthews Band and Tim Reynolds on. They had a big concert in Cancun and I put on some live music and uh, but you know they have a few songs. So so damn lucky American beauty intro. Uh, the stone gaucho, any, any Dave Matthews band fans out there? Uh, put those on your, your playlist and those just I don't know. It just gets you, gets you going Right. It's great. Love it. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:All right, we got. I got one final question. It's usually the dumb one, it's something between aliens, AI and Bigfoot, I think. For you, I got to ask cause you're in Gunnison. It's kind of like halfway to the San Juans or close to the San Juans which I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I think I think of wilderness and Bigfoot. So do you believe in Bigfoot? I think I do. I think I do. I grew up and my dad, we watched a lot of X-Files, a lot of ancient alien stuff, a lot of Bigfoot stuff, and we've been totally on, uh, expedition bigfoot that series going on right now, yeah, yeah, and so like every week, we, you know, whole family gets around the television and we, we watch it and you know.
Speaker 2:so I don't know, I I think, I think, I think there has to be something and a lot of the bigfoot stuff, you know, the more you look into it, it's a lot of that paranormal or supernatural activity that that comes with the bigfoot so it's not necessarily, um, you'll see bigfoot corpse or anything right or bones and a lot of the bigfoot readings that you do and in such in videos, uh, there's a lot of lights and you know um sort of transformation of you know them transforming into this sort of supernatural being and and and going to different places. So I don't know, I'm trying to figure it out myself, but uh, I I want to believe and I think that I think that's more important. I want to believe there's something else out there same besides us, right? Same. Yeah, that's a good answer, man. No, I like how you, you watch some of that stuff. I'm and I want to believe there's something else out there besides us, right?
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's a good answer, man. No, I like how you. You've watched some of that stuff. I'm I'm listen man. I love the conspiracy theory stuff, so like I'm all over it. I'm always interested in like aliens and Bigfoot and all that stuff. It's fun to me, oh man.
Speaker 2:You will not to keep this going, but real quickly about the aliens. Like you ever seen? Fire in the sky, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Travis Walton. Oh my gosh, that's like one of the things we saw way back in the day with my dad and like, uh, just incredible that story. So like he was missing for seven days and then he reappears and then he, you know, has all these visions. So like, yeah, there's, there's something out there for sure.
Speaker 1:And especially like like not to bring Colorado into it too, but like yeah, there's, there's something out there for sure. And especially like like not to bring Colorado into it too, but like I think it was Jackson Cole that was on the pot and he was telling me cause he used to live down in Alamosa and like in the San Luis Valley there was like this, uh, I think it was like a they had like cattle mutilations and stuff and like they have like UFO sightings all the time. It's kind of crazy. So yeah, crazy. So yeah, I don't know man, it keeps the, keeps the lore a lot. I want to believe I don't know. The alien stuff to me seems a little bit more plausible than than bigfoot, just because like that's kind of crazy to think it's just like. You can't just think it's just us. There's got to be something else going around out there, and not to mention, like people see things in the sky all the time uh, yeah, you know who knows so yeah josh abberly.
Speaker 1:this is a great podcast. I can't wait to have a round two. Thanks so much for coming on. We'll chat offline about the Pike stuff. We'd love to have you guys out there. And yeah, man, I appreciate it All right.
Speaker 2:Thanks, james, love what you do and happy one year anniversary again.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks, man. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank Josh so much for coming on the podcast, just so appreciative that we have people in our sport that are willing to, you know, that have jobs like this, that are willing to help shape the future of the sport. You know, it doesn't matter if it's at the professional level or if it's just to look like for the future by helping at a young age, like instill, um, you know, love for the outdoors, love for the mountains and, and you know, kids coming through Western, that I just think it's something so cool and so special. So really want to, you know, like, give Josh's flowers and thank him for, you know, some of the amazing work that he's doing over at Western. So pretty cool stuff. Um, I'm sure you guys will see him at a race soon with the Western crew. We hope to have them back at the Pikes Peak Marathon in Ascent this year and I know he's going to be traveling around to some other races as well, such as I think it was a Red Rocks, and I know they have some partnership with going to some of the Mad Moose races for the Arches and Red Hot Ultra and stuff like that. So, yeah, pretty cool stuff and I'm just super thankful for you know Josh being candid and coming on for a conversation.
Speaker 1:Guys, give him a follow. You can find him on Instagram at run sleep design. That's run sleep design, one word. Or you could just type in Josh Eberle, give him a follow, send him a message. If you have anybody that you're aware of or is interested in, you know wanting to learn more about the Western Colorado running team the trail running team, that is you could send them a DM. Or you can hop on the website and you can give them an email. Send them an email. His email is on the Western University or Western Colorado website and you can send some words over there and see if you know there's any interest, which is pretty cool. So, yeah, guys, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating review on Apple, spotify or wherever you consume your podcasts. And, yeah, have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much, thank you. We'll see you next time.
