The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#87 - Jazmine Lowther
In this enlightening conversation with ultrarunner Jazmine Lowther, we explore the dynamic intersection of elite performance, career transitions, and authentic living in the mountain sports world. Jazmine takes us inside her recent move from The North Face to Arc'teryx, revealing the emotional complexity of brand identity for professional athletes and the forward-thinking athlete support systems being developed in the industry.
Training in Squamish British Columbia brings unique challenges—freezing rain, challenging terrain, and a community where extraordinary multisport days are the norm. Jazmine shares how this environment shapes her approach to training while preparing for races like Canyons 100K, where she'll return as a former champion. The candid discussion about mental fortitude required for Pacific Northwest winters offers valuable perspective for anyone training through challenging conditions.
The conversation takes fascinating turns through coaching philosophy, where Jazmine emphasizes human connection over training metrics. "Communication is the foundation for the coach-athlete relationship," she explains, detailing how understanding an athlete's life stressors, relationship challenges, and mental health is crucial to effective coaching. Her approach to running retreats and holistic athlete development reveals a thoughtfulness that extends far beyond physical performance.
We tackle complex industry questions about race consolidation, the UTMB ecosystem, and finding balance between professional opportunities and grassroots racing culture. Jazmine's balanced perspective acknowledges both the visibility major race series bring while valuing the community events that build the sport's foundation. Her personal dilemma between targeting Western States or UTMB highlights the scheduling challenges elite athletes face in today's crowded calendar.
Perhaps most compelling is Jazmine's reflection on authenticity in the trail running community, where she values genuine connections over curated perfectionism. For anyone navigating the intersection of passion, profession, and purpose in outdoor sports, this conversation offers invaluable insights from someone balancing competitive excellence with genuine human connection.
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This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction - use code steepstuffpod for 25% of your cart at checkout
What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Ms Jasmine Louther. Super fun episode, really exciting one. You know Jasmine's mostly well known for the ultra distances, so we had a lot of talk between ultra and sub ultra. We chatted about the Canions 100K, which she'll be going back to being a former champion, where she got her first golden ticket to western states, um, and kind of cemented her name in the sport as one of the top females in the sport. We talked about the direction of the sport. We talked about racing. We talked about utmb um, you know, we talked about coaching, coaching theory and all different fun things with that what it's like living in squamish. We talked about the hard decision to leave the north face athlete team and join Arc'teryx this past year, which was really cool. We got into some of Arc'teryx's shoe lineups and just kind of the team that they've, overall, shaped for 2025. And it's pretty rad. So really fun conversation. I really want to thank Jasmine so much for coming on the podcast. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's time. We'll see you next time.
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Speaker 2:Hey, thank you so much. I'm super stoked to be here. Yeah, it's another rainy day in Squamish British Columbia right now, but I'm, I'm, uh, we're getting through it.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited to have a chat. I mean, some new photos popped up not too long ago I think it was Connor Berksmith that shot them from you with this transition into Arc'teryx to joining the global Arc'teryx team, which is pretty awesome. So I was like man, you just joined a new team, You're training right out of Squamish. Right now it's a great opportunity to have a conversation. So that's why I reached out, and right now it's a good opportunity to have a conversation.
Speaker 2:So that's why I reached out and I'm glad we were able to link up for a chat. Yeah, there was a lot of big changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big changes all around, for sure, for sure. Well, let's start off. Let's talk Squamish. I know you're there for a little bit. You said it's rainy. It's funny. I'm friends with Adam Campbell and I've had Jesse McCauley on the podcast as well and it just seems like such a I don't want to say intense place to train, but like there are so many fit people per capita in that, like one small area, like what is it like? Like living and training there right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, and I think there's just so many activities that you can do here. It's insane, and I've had so many conversations with people exactly on that topic. But it's also just like you will meet every day someone who's either in some specialized niche it might be whitewater rafting or kayaking, it might be cliff jumping jumping, it might be rock climbing, um, or people doing stuff all in one day, um, like. I just talked to someone who, uh, did like a massive gravel bike, ran, whitewater, rafted, skied, like all in one day. That's like pretty normal here, for sure, um. So, yeah, it's just like a mixing pot People from all over, lots of Europeans.
Speaker 2:It's in the summer. It is absolute paradise. It's where I learned how to trad climb and it's got these huge, some of the biggest monoliths of granite in the world and it's definitely very amazing rock to be on. And then, yeah, right now the skiing is up high and it's been raining down low, but the skiing up high is quite good, and then down low you can have trails year round that are snow-free as well, for the most part. Yeah, so it's fun.
Speaker 1:It's such a beautiful place I've never been. It's on my list, um, hopefully I can make it there this summer. I'd love to check it out. What is it like for a trail runner there? Is it like just paradise, like even in, like rainy spring, like?
Speaker 2:how does that?
Speaker 1:work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is the question right now in my mind. I think it it takes some getting getting used to and it does rain a lot. It's the Pacific Northwest, so, yeah, I'm looking at the weather forecast right now and it's like rain every single day. Sometimes you get some temperature swings where it's not quite so cold out, so like I don't know, in the 60s Fahrenheit here and there into the 70s, but no, actually, no, not right now, not right now.
Speaker 2:We had a fall spring a few weeks ago and that was too nice and then, and then, yeah, so it says it rains a lot and then some days it's like cold rain, which I find that the hardest mentally, because if you're about to go out the door for a long run, the hardest mentally because if you're about to go out the door for a long run and it's like just above freezing and it's going to be raining the entire time, I find that's so hard to prepare for no matter what clothing you put on.
Speaker 2:You know, like we always say, it's not bad weather, it's just bad clothing or whatever the phrase is. And, yeah, you know, you can have like the most waterproof gear, but if you're going to be out there for four hours in the soaking rain, and you're trying to get some intensity in. It's like it's a mental load, for sure, so I'm definitely learning to give myself some grace, find some creative ways, and then, um, yeah, if it's not going to be sunny this weekend which now it looks like it might be, um, but if it's not, then I'm, I'm going to be sunny this weekend, which now it looks like it might be um, but if it's not, then I'm, I'm going to go chase some sunshine.
Speaker 1:To be honest, though, yeah, it's got to be difficult. Like I'm in colorado springs and like we just get I mean, especially this year we have just been so spoiled with like really not. Like no winter, like maybe a few months here and there and it's been so strange but so warm, and I've been like man, like I could. I could live like this.
Speaker 2:This is not so bad, yeah I've been watching hannah all good train and like shorts and a t-shirt and I'm like what the heck? You're in colorado, come on. But uh, yeah, I mean and this is why I have the van too, and we might talk about this some more but I'm like continually shopping around for all right, where would be the place in US or Canada that I like actually want to put some roots down for the longterm?
Speaker 1:And yeah, this past year I had lots of fun checking out different zones and might be doing that again this year, but yeah, so always open for some ideas yeah, yeah, you were in the jackson area for for you know, or like kind of on the both sides right of the range, like kind of playing around over there, like what do you think that area is wild? Like I don't know, you grew up in bc so it's a little bit different because like I feel like there's more wild animals there. But like I'm a boy from florida and like I and I've lived, lived in Colorado for five years and Colorado is just like overpopulated, so like I don't see too many animals. But when I went to like Wyoming for a Cirque series race this summer I was like whoa, like there's, there's like actually grizzly bears here, there's moose, like you see animal life everywhere. Like what does that like for you? Like going to spend time in that zone?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love the Tetons and I think for me it's like the sheer relief and it can be hard to find that in North America and it's especially it's. It's just like so in your face, you know, you see that skyline and it just draws you in. I think, yeah, it's funny, like the bears I'm pretty used to. I will say there's a lot of moose there and on quite a few few runs you'll like almost run smack into a gigantic moose, which is also equally terrifying. But um, um, yeah, I think, coming from Canada, I'm quite used to wildlife. So, if anything, whenever I go to the states it's always like wait, you guys don't have to worry about this, like it's so, it's so weird. For me it's it's almost like going to Europe, but then there's like pockets of where.
Speaker 2:It's like oh yeah, you actually do see cougar or grizz or or moose and stuff. And then I also like the Tetons are amazing and yeah, I think the one thing I struggled with as well was to get away from the crowds. Um, like, I really loved getting up on grand middle South or up on some of those peaks, um, and you know, once you get past, like whatever, where the crowds tend to flock, um, you can still find that like, okay, I haven't seen anyone for a few hours and and it's, it's still there for sure. Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's funny because, yeah, british Columbia it's just so vast and like you can't, you can't even put a dent on it, like in a lifetime it would take like thousands of lifetimes, whereas in the Tetons, like I ran every trail in three weeks and it was like, okay, where do I next? I got to get to the winds, I think the winds in Wyoming yeah, I want to go check out that zone and it might be a little bit more bushwhacky and definitely more out there, but they look really cool. And then the Sawtooth range, also in Idaho, yeah, yeah I drove past.
Speaker 1:What was it? I threw lander. When I was driving out to jackson I was just like there is nothing out here, like the winds are legit, like that's a. It's a cool range, yeah, and it's very it seems very technical from afar, it seems, you know, just super remote. So, yeah, that sounds like an amazing place, for sure to explore you know, yeah, yeah, yeah so let's uh, let's, let's transition a little bit.
Speaker 1:I want to get into. You know, one of the reasons that sparked this conversation was you just recently transitioned from being on the north face athlete team to joining the arcteryx global team. Um, have you been able to pop down into, like, the vancouver design area or design scene over there? What's that like?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was so crazy. And I have to say, the welcome to the Arc'teryx team was like oh, it just yeah, it's, it's astonishing and I can only hope that brands do things like this more and more. But it was almost like immediate myself, and they brought on two new climbers onto the team as well and, yeah, we had like this big welcome, like met all of the internal staff, like literally everyone in the office. So we met like I don't know a hundred people in one day. We're going around and just saying like hello and just checking out every corner, every nook and corner within the office. So like, yeah, the people who are designing products and testing them to like the color design people, and you know, you're looking at like images of color and what that color means. Where did it come from? Was it from like a funky lichen or was it from a deep sea creature? Um, yeah, there's just so much um to absorb, definitely, um.
Speaker 2:And then we also got to tour one of the manufacturing plants, which was really interesting as well, and they employ like it's 600 to 700, um, like sewers, seamstress, um, yeah, I don't know the technical word for that, but uh, the people literally like making jackets and um, yeah, they've got like kind of a factory line and we just got to see like how many quality checks that they have, where their warranty returns go or when they're doing the re-bird, where they like create something new out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was really cool to see and this was like right in Vancouver in North America, and yeah, I think it just drove home the quality and the craftsmanship behind the brand and the authenticity. And yeah, lots of our meetings have started off with like we really want to be better humans and better humans create better athletes. Humans create better athletes. And yeah, I mean, I'm now talking on a weekly, if not daily, basis with my athlete manager as well as my team captain, who's Adam Campbell, and both of them are just like super supportive, you know, want to reach out, see how things are going Like recently I just rolled my ankle and like the amount of concern that that popped up and like, hey, let's get you to see a physiotherapist like immediately. So, yeah, it's, it's super refreshing.
Speaker 1:It's such a cool brand, like I don't know Adam like I said, adam's a friend, we've had him on and like he just really sold it, you know, for for people up and coming or even you know existing professional athletes like just really put the sell on it and then like a lot of like the little things, too, that I was like really impressed about, like, uh, what was it? Mental health counseling was something, like he said they offered like just like little things that most brands don't offer. That I think like just go a long way and make a huge difference in like trying to, you know, form a team and create a team and stuff like that, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think now, yeah, I've got like a physiotherapist who's providing strength training. The therapist is like a lead sports psychology. They've got like a PhD and I haven't yet chatted with them, but I'm super excited to go down that road and, yeah, and then they also provide funding for education and safety.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking at like whether it's running focused and it could be about my coaching, or could be like, oh, I need to up my wilderness first aid, which, yeah, is top of mind right now. Or, yeah, do I want to go into like guiding or something too, and it just like it opens up all these doors. That not, yeah, it should be accessible. And then the long-term vision as well for athletes like how some who have gone through their career as a professional athlete and then potentially they're sunsetting, they're like racing, competitive side, but then going more into adventure expeditions, or even like fully hired internally and are working on like shoe design. Or like Alana Yip, who's a climber. She's like an engineer on the climb design team. So, yeah, there's like it's very, very holistic for sure, which is sweet.
Speaker 1:Not to go off on a tangent, but like that's something that like really intrigues me and it's just like interesting and I hope more brands go that direction.
Speaker 1:Like, obviously you're you're still very young in the sport, but look at Anton, for example. Anton just signed a long-term deal with my sponsor, la Sportiva, and now he's in this dual role where, yes, he's an athlete and will continue to be, but also it's this hybridized role where he'll move, I don't want to say in an office position, but it's more design and more input in the product design and things like that, which I don't know, I think like us as athletes, like we, I think athletes bring a lot more to the table than just like what they can do, whether it's on a mountain or whether it's on a trail. You know, like our design input, just the way we think, is a little bit different and I think there's a lot more that you know athletes can bring to the table there. That I don't know it's like kind of a tangent, but that you know athletes can bring to the table there that I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's like kind of a tangent, but I just think that.
Speaker 1:No, it's cool to see uh brands doing that more and david laney with craft that's another good example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're seeing more of it, which is cool. Yeah, I, I agree, I think it's a win-win all around it. Just the athlete already knows the product so well and, like you say, they are going to be able to test it, and and I, yeah it just I think it's it's like you've created such a big, like your engagement is still there, like Anton is still Anton and we still want to hear from him, and it's it's so cool to hear things like that and I think, yeah, when I heard about David Laney doing that with craft, it it really did, um, make me be like, oh, respect craft. That's really awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause it's weird. I mean, like most athletes are contract athletes, right, like you know 10, 99s and it's like, well, you know whether you get injured, well, then you have to go find help. There's all these like different intangibles where it's like kind of on you and like when you decide your career is over is like kind of when you decide, and it's kind of not always. It's like you know, it's a weird. It's a weird, it's a weird thing.
Speaker 1:It's a. It's just cool to see like brands like being able to like maybe bridge that so you can like actually like have a longevity in your career whereas, like it's not just like, well, one day you run your last race and then it's over, and it's like see you later.
Speaker 2:You know Absolutely and I think just even when you are still an athlete and you're providing product feedback that that's also like one of the most rewarding, satisfying parts of the job. It's like, yeah, this week I got a whole bunch of tights and jackets that I'm testing out and talking to the product developers on a weekly basis, like, yeah, this is working. Yeah, maybe this could like be switched up a little bit. And um it that that's super rewarding and it feels important. It's like it's it allows you to buy in even more to the brand and, um, yeah, we'd love to see that continued for sure.
Speaker 1:I had a serious one for you. You can answer this in whichever way you want to, and if you don't want to, I can always cut it out. It's just that I've heard I have a lot of friends on the North Face team, right, and I've only ever heard good things. Was it a very difficult decision to be able to say, okay, I'm going to like make this transition.
Speaker 2:I think when people transition from brands, a lot is kind of left under the table, especially like to the public, and you know there's like good reason for that, for sure. Yes, it was a really hard decision, I think, for me. Um, it came. It came a little bit earlier than expected and it was just, you know, arcteryx wanted to get things moving and, um, I was actually still with the North face until end of March, so I still would be with the North Face, but when you have such a beautiful offer on the table and it's like this is an opportunity that I don't know will be there, yeah, it was like this is a no brainer, but it's like it's still very emotionally hard.
Speaker 2:I think when you're with a brand, you create an identity, or at least I did, and maybe this is learning for me, which, yeah, who knows if I'll actually disentangle myself going forward, but I do. I did identify with the North Face and it felt hard, north Face, and it felt hard. It feels like, oh, all of a sudden, this becomes a transaction and I'm no longer in this family, quote unquote. And I love that team, I love the people on the team and I think it's hard to say goodbye and that did. It weighed on me a lot and it was a very you know, a little bit untimely it's around Christmas and New Year's and it was right down to the wire for sure. So, yeah, contract negotiations sometimes are drawn out and they can be quite long, and this one was almost the opposite, and they can be quite long and, um, this one was almost the opposite. So, um, but sometimes you got to be right place, right time and and I did see this opportunity and I'm super grateful that I went forward with it it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, thank god, thank you for being so candid and like being open about it. But second of all, it's crazy because, like, both are such a good fit for, like, an athlete like you with your style. But arterics the reason I'll say it's crazy, because both are such a good fit for an athlete with your style, but Arcteryx, the reason I'll say it's homecoming for you in a little bit, because you're from BC, it's just a little bit better of a fit just from an outsider's perspective. So, very cool and I'm excited to see the new shoes and stuff like that they're coming out with. Is it the LD4 or LD40 that they have, which is sick? So lots of good stuff coming down the pipeline there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they're very ready to go to the next level with trail, mountain, alpine, ultra running, all of it, and so this is really year one of them going full, all in, and there's a lot more coming down the pipe for sure. So, yeah, it's the Norvan LD4. I find them super versatile. So they are like lightweight, they're super agile and they're kind of like that one fits all quiver type of shoe. I'm realizing I am kind of a silent girl just because my races right now are more like ultra, a mix of like mountain but still runnable to steep, um not like crazy scrambling, technical Um yeah. So those they they have like more propulsion and like rocker and um stuff like that. And then they do have the other lineup like the vertex speed and the um the vertex Alpine, which are more like scrambly, um yeah, which I'm I'm really stoked to test those out some more this summer, once, once the rock is dry, I mean their lineup is amazing.
Speaker 1:My best friend runs for Arcteryx at the ambassador level, colorado ambassador, and he is like he has serious goals to, to you know, hopefully move to international or like North American level soon. And it's like man, like it's just some of the stuff coming out of there is just really exciting, like all the product design, everything's just like super badass, really quick. I do have a question for you was it after?
Speaker 2:speed goat. They started talking to you. I had a feeling um, uh, it was not quite um yeah, adam's got good.
Speaker 1:He's got a good eye for talent and like bringing people onto the team.
Speaker 2:It seems like yeah, well, it's got a good eye for talent and like bringing people on the team. It seems like, yeah, well, it's funny because Adam and I had talked like three or four years ago and he's honestly been my mentor like since day one, like after, I don't, I think it was even before I did Canyons. I was already like Adam, what do you think about this? Or like Adam, how do you? Yeah, because it was before. Actually, I did my first 100 miler and I would like pester him about you know, nutrition or like what should I put in my drop bag, and he's just like always been a mentor to me and yeah, so it. Yeah, our level of contact was like yeah, so it. Yeah, our level of contact was like in and out, and then I mean, this truly did come about quite late in the season, so it might've been after Cape Town actually, when the serious conversations happened Interesting.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, that's quick, that's amazing. Cool, very cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I think oh, actually I got one more. I have one more question about it. So, you kind of announced it early, I saw it on free trail, and then you put it back off your Instagram? Was that where you waiting for them to do the official announcement, or what happened with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I honestly botched it and this it would just gives light to my newbie-ness for all of it. But, um, no, um, yeah, we had like everyone was on holiday and so, um, we had like a date down the line for like the announcement. I don't, I don't think we had talked about that though quite yet, so I was kind of like, all right, january 1st am I gonna put it up. And then people were like skiing and on holidays and I was like, all right, all the employees take their holidays like really seriously and this is great. Um, but yeah, I was, I was kind of just waiting and then, um, finally, when people got back into the office, uh, I realized my mistake and, um, whatever they actually, they were like, no, that was, that was totally fine for Devo to give a little little shout out there. So, yeah, no, no harm done.
Speaker 1:No, I think it was awesome, like just like the fact that like free trails involved and like making these announcements for like free agency and stuff, I think is totally dope. It's very cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool. Yeah, I mean, this year was insane for the amount of swaps and surprises and everything. So, um, yeah, it's uh, lots of, lots of like new brands coming out and shifting and brands taking a step back, and yeah, it's just, um, it's interesting to see where trail is going for sure, it's a crazy landscape.
Speaker 1:It's it's interesting to see where a trail is going. For sure it's a crazy landscape, it's it's. But I see good things and I see bad things. I think see things getting more expensive, which I think, as an athlete, it's like that's a bummer, uh, for, like, the average athlete. But then also I see, like the product innovations are crazy. Like we just dropped the new prodigio pro and I'm like, damn, it's a serious shoe. Like you guys have amazing shoes coming out. So it's like the innovation has, just like like it's going to continue to push plus nutrition innovation, as well as getting crazy. Yeah, there's just so much out there to progress the sport Like it's going to be, the sport's going to be unrecognizable in the next five years, which is wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is wild and yeah, now it feels like the future of oh my gosh, I don't even know all the technology that's coming out now. It's like stop, stop.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. So you're a coach. I do want to talk about your coaching business and some of your stuff. It's so funny. So I'm self-coached now and I've been working on like a mesocycle for like two mesocycles, for like the next uh, to get ready for a race in June. Like I have a speed block and then I've got like a more specific block and I've been using like chat, gpt and it's like helped me immensely and I'm like what the hell Like this thing is like legit.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm like just just like you know, I'm like and I explained the I even give it the race and it like confined it for me and I'm like yo, this is, this is wild.
Speaker 1:Um, as a coach, that's going to be really frustrating because the human touch is everything. Not that I'm anti-AI, but I'm not the biggest proponent of it because I don't like the idea of it taking people's jobs. I don't like us being glued to screens, it's not very natural. But as a coach I know this question is a little out of left field, but what does? That mean to you that's got to be frustrating. What are your thoughts on that? Does that mean to you that's got to?
Speaker 2:be like frustrating and like like, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, it's a good question, and I feel like when chat gpt first came out, it was like, yeah, no, this isn't gonna like be replacing these sorts of jobs where I think that human interaction is super important, I think you know. And then, um, I was just reading an article how researchers are using chat gpt because our ai can basically filter through, like you know, thousands or more than thousands of like other research papers and do like a lit, a lit research review, you know, um, and they can do that in like an hour or less, um seconds maybe, whereas, like, if you're hiring an assistant, that will take, you know, a week at minimum. Um, yeah, and then it's just fascinating to see where it goes. But I think, at the end of the day, that human interaction is quite important. And when we do use chat gbt, you know you get those responses and it's like kind of dull and you know we've probably all maybe have tried like asking it for a prompt and maybe it's for helping us write an email or a caption or a draft paper or a draft paper, and whenever I read what it puts out, it can sometimes be okay, but it often lacks personality for sure.
Speaker 2:So I think that that's one aspect and with athletes that I work with, communication is like number one. That's like the foundation for the coach athlete relationship and I give, um, I pro, I provide. Like my intention with every athlete is I'm going to be checking in with them at least two times a week minimum and I don't want there to ever be like crickets between myself and the athlete. It needs, we need communication to build trust and to really understand, like what's going on in their life. Is there work stress, is there a relationship stress? How's their nutrition going? And lately I've been working with people who have had major trauma in their life, you know, loss of a loved one, or they've gone through a relationship separation. You know, I don't, I don't need to know, like I don't need to become their therapist, but I think understanding mental health is very crucial to be a coach and like I don't want to be adding load or stress to their plate when their body is already like at its limits and that might be like an emotional load that they're carrying.
Speaker 2:Another thing like I'm working with lots of people who are coming back from either broken bones or stress fractures. Um, and I'm I'm really happy that people reach out when they've had an injury and they're like, hey, I'm ready to get a coach. And it's like great, like I mean not great that they've had an injury, but it's like let's make sure that your return to run is is safe and, um, you know, whether they've dealt with low energy availability or low iron or some sort of hormone injury as well. I think that part also has like a psychological aspect to it too. A psychological aspect to it too, um and uh, yeah, so I'm, I'm huge on the holistic training and that's that's how I, um, that's why most athletes choose to work with me, because I do think that human component is so key for successful training and like healthy long-term training as well.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, and I've chosen to go this way because every coach that I've worked with, they've all been great, but I've always felt like, yeah, we're still missing something, and that usually was like the human factor and like it's not just a training plan, it's someone's life that we're, in some ways, we're adding structure or control to. So, yeah, that's my long-winded answer. I really liked it I was gonna get.
Speaker 1:I have to give you your flowers too, because, like you're, you're, first of all, your website's amazing. Not too many athletes update their websites and like yours is is up to date with even upcoming races. I was like, yes, you made life so much easier for me. But it was just very obvious to me as an athlete and someone that has a good idea of training theory and stuff like that. Just reading some of your articles and some of the things that you've written for Strava Stories and stuff like that, I was like, wow, you have a very good idea. Just like you have a wealth of knowledge and experience about a lot of topics, some related to women and like red ass and stuff like that, but also just like extreme amount of knowledge for, like, injury prevention, just things like that. I was like damn, I was impressed like good stuff there.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, kudos to you. How did you Thank you?
Speaker 2:I'm just curious how did you get into coaching and like, what inspired you to start doing it? You kind of like briefly answered it, but I did cross country and things like that. And then throughout my teenage years I did like sports and stuff and then I did rock climbing for like a decade and then full circle, I came back to trail running around COVID and my first ultra race I mean, my training was god awful, but I may have won and that really opened my eyes. But immediately I started working with a coach it was actually the race director, dave Stevens. He's a phenomenal Canadian ultra runner. He really got me into the sport and he's like, hey, let me coach you. He really got me into the sport and he's like, hey, let me coach you.
Speaker 2:And through the coaching and working with him I learned a few things about myself. It was like, well, I really love the science behind training and my background as a biologist and studying biology for years in university. It was just like, oh, give me more. Like I would just tear up books. You know, I think we all start with like, whether it's Scott Jurek's book or um the born to run, and then you just go on from there and then you're like learning about the physiology, anatomy, biomechanics, um, everything. So I definitely like fast forwarded my understanding behind it and, um, I think a year or two had passed and then I started to just work, coaching with some friends. It's just like the classic, it's almost a meme. It's like, hey, I can start coaching you. But you know, I was like doing it for free or like very cheap, and it was just like a side little hobby.
Speaker 2:And then, with time, that grew and grew and I started working with different coaches for myself, and with every coach that you work with too, I'm sure you felt this. You do, you learn from them. You learn, um, um, different ways to apply theory, what you like, what you don't like as an athlete, and uh. So all of those experience I'm super grateful for. And then, yeah, fast forward canyons.
Speaker 2:I started working with the north face and I came to this decision of like, all right, should I or could I jump ship from my full-time job as a biologist, which was like super near and dear to my heart. I loved it, but it was also getting in the way of me being able to train and like really become a like not a full-time professional athlete, but like be able to take it to that next level. Yeah and yeah, doing of field work. You're out on your feet all day, traveling a ton, and I will say I worked with a lot of boomers and love them, but like they did not understand at all and I was, I was definitely the black sheep and they're just like you what you want to do, what Like, um, so yeah, there's some 401k where you don't want to stay in a job for 40 years Like no yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what your your number one passion isn't your job Um yeah, yeah absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:So I did, I took the leap and for anyone who's ever done a career search, you understand like it's terrifying. You're like I have no idea what's going to be for me on the other side, if I'm going to make ends meet, like how am I going to pay the bills, all those things and I just said, okay, let's do it for a year, and if I make, if I'm at like net zero, that's a win Cause. Basically this is like restarting a full career. And I took lots of courses on coaching.
Speaker 2:I did like strength, personal training, code, um courses, you know, mental, uh, psychology training, and, um, yeah, I dove fully in. So, um, and from there on now, now it's been super successful to the point where I I either always have a wait list and I'm like here are some other coaches that you can work with. Um, so yeah, it's, it's been very rewarding and, as you know, as a coach it's like you get to meet so many cool people from all over the world and uh, yeah, just, everyone has a really cool story to be able to share, so it's a small part of their journey.
Speaker 1:So I feel like that's a really fun aspect, too, is getting to meet so many different people that like come from all different walks of life, like one person training for their first ultra ever, someone training for like their 30th Right. It's like everybody's got a different experience. Uh, one of the things that I thought was really cool on your website and I was going to ask you if you had one planned or if you're going to bring it back was the um, uh retreats. The retreats that you were doing. Yeah, that seemed so rad, like what. Like what was the idea behind that? And yeah, do you plan to do another one?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the retreat was yeah, it was like let's bring a bunch of people together to this cool zone and be able to share it, go on some trails. I really, really wanted it to have like an educational aspect to it. So we did end up doing like three workshops. I put it together with my friend, eva Gifford, who's she's also a talented chiropractor, who's very progressive in her practice, and then also a very awesome ultra runner, and then also a very awesome ultra runner. So, yeah, we had like workshops and it was in this beautiful lodge, wood lodge setting and it's usually a ski lodge in the winter. So they actually had like a full-time chef that they offered us and the food was like oh, so good, like all these fresh ingredients and, you know, like huckleberry cheesecake at the end of the day or whatever. So good, so nice, for whether they had kids and they could like get away and just like fully unwind and relax or people just wanting to like invest in themselves and learn a little bit more, and then lots of people just like coming together and sharing you. You know the, the love of running together and yeah, so I would love to do them again in the future.
Speaker 2:I think it can be tricky in terms of timing around races. So that's one thing that I'm just trying to. You know, maybe, maybe it's not like a annual thing or like every once in a while. Um, I will say some conversations are in the works right now, so stay tuned. It might not be this year, but it might be down the road to host some more retreats and, yeah, could be somewhere really cool. So I've got a few locations on mine.
Speaker 1:Super. No, it's super cool. That's the reason I asked, because it was like one of the more unique things. And it's like so we have our one year party for the podcast like this week, and it's like it's the first like thing I've ever planned. That's like I guess I'm not really an event person like putting just stuff together and I'm like, wow, this is uber complicated. And it's like trying to juggle that with training, with my day job and a podcast. It's like yo, this is a lot of work. So I always give like I always give kudos to people that can like manage all, like just juggle a billion different things and like pull it off, you know and make it look flawless, which is kind of cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's yeah, yeah, especially the first time, and I think it might be like location dependent as well. It's like you know, do you need? See, there's lots of retreats out there and maybe it's like more educational, maybe it's more location and travel exploration focused, maybe it's like just getting unplugged and just the community building and, yeah, they are very special, and even, like for myself's, like, oh, that would be pretty cool to go for a running retreat, like in morocco or something like that yeah, it's so unique like nobody does it unless, like you're part of a team that like happens to like, for instance, like when you were a tnf.
Speaker 1:They do like their, they always do like these crazy retreats like all over the world. So stuff like that is like pretty dope. I don't know Like better than like sitting in a classroom in Boulder, colorado.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, totally yeah, most brands now are doing like either a running camp or some sort of summit. Yeah, so with the Arc'teryx team we're actually we're meeting up in Portland pretty soon Cause there's the testing facility there and, like, the shoe development team are all down there and uh, and then we might go cheer on well, we are going to go cheer on the Gorge hundred K and stuff like that. So that'll be super rad.
Speaker 1:That'll be that's going to be a fun race. It's going to be a lot of people there this year.
Speaker 1:There will be it's gonna be rad, all right. So I I do want to get into racing and competition. I'm gonna. I do want to just go back in time for a second. Like I want to talk about 2022 canyons because like that was like the race that kind of put you on the map, maybe life-changing in one way or another, to come in and like totally demolish like beth pascal's record that year and like obviously it was a different course. What I'm trying to draw the barrel, it was it was like the same course I will say I did not demolish.
Speaker 1:I like to build you up a little bit, thank you.
Speaker 2:No, I. Beth Pascal is like a huge idol to me, so I just to be like basically on par with her was amazing, it was incredible, I incredible yeah, it's winter, which is crazy yeah that's cascales like, yeah, legend, absolute legend of the game.
Speaker 1:2022 was a crazy year because like that was we're just coming off the covet year. Um, you know, like that course was probably my favorite canyons course, because that was the one that ended at like china wall. Is that correct? Yeah? Yeah, tell me, like, what was that experience like for you to go win that race Cause? Like that's how to have been like at that, to that point like the biggest win of your career.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I I mean that entire day. It was like hilarious, it was shocking, it was completely unexpected. It was all of those things. It was completely unexpected, it was all of those things. And I mean, even now I can think back and just like everything about it was hilarious.
Speaker 2:For majority of the first half, I was just like in disbelief and convinced that like no, no, everyone is super wrong. There's no way that I'm like there must be a group of 10 women ahead of me. And yeah, just like from the very start, and for anyone who's ever lined up, it's like and you're running a new distance and in all these things it's like you just you don't really know your own potential. And in all these things it's like you just you don't really know your own potential. And yeah, you, you believe in yourself, but you're still scared and it's like you know yin and yang, those two things. So I remember being behind all the elite women and being like well, like so cool to meet these people, and yeah, and then it starts and there's shuffling and it's kind of chaos and you're not sure where anyone is and you're on this road, but then it quickly narrows to a trail and it becomes like quite a bottleneck.
Speaker 2:Um, that was, that was the course before and I I remember getting in that bottleneck and being like frustrated because I thought it was behind all the lead women. And then, once you hit, you get I'm not sure I forget what it's called but the trail widens to basically like a quad track, but it's super buff and everything, and you're along the river and at that point I saw there was like a group of headlamps ahead of me and like definitely running probably faster than I should have for 100k, and I was just trying to catch up with what I thought were the lead women. Um, yeah, no, they were the lead men, and so I was like trying to chase them down for a good while, even the first aid station. That's when it started to like kind of dawn on me and I ran past the race director Chaz, and he was like first woman and I'm like no, no, I'm like 10th woman and so, yeah, anyways, that just kind of kept happening.
Speaker 2:And then, by the second aid station, I was like, oh my gosh, this is real. Okay, Like can't mess this up. And it was just full, full switch, which really cool to see, like the psychology and I think any any runner who's ever been in first place you realize like well, this is such a privilege and it gives you so much fire. It's like like I want to keep this and it, yeah, it just lights this fire under you and so I just use that to fuel me for the entire race and and just um, yeah, it was a pretty special day for sure.
Speaker 1:Some people like it's interesting right when you're in that position, because it's some people fold and they're like maybe have imposter syndrome or like I shouldn't be here and then, other people are like damn, like I belong here and like that's kind of what you did. Like you, you know you belong there and you push yourself to a win which is just like I don't know it's so crazy, but like you led from, did you lead from start to finish.
Speaker 2:Basically then, Basically, yeah, that's wild, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:I you don't. That doesn't happen too often and like from a dominance perspective and like these types of races, which is crazy. What I was getting at with it is I don't want to keep us in the past. Was you're going to you? From what your website said, you're planning on going back this year. What's the emotion there? Are you excited to go back? Are you putting any pressure on yourself? Obviously, it's a different course, so there's a little bit of difference to it. What are your thoughts going back to it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been trying to get back to it for a while. It's funny, though, training normally for these races and even though for some people it's not an early spring race, but for some people it's a very early race. So, um, yeah, it is quite a different course. So I'm trying to focus a bit more on that, and I'm still curious, or exploring, like, the psychology or mind shift for races that you've done. Repeatedly, I put more pressure on myself. To be fully honest, like, absolutely, I put way more pressure on myself repeating a race, and maybe that's why I tried to avoid it.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, but I see people, you know, even like we just watched Killian and Wamsley um tearing down at Chianti. It's like you look at runners, athletes that repeat races all the time, and it's like, yeah, you're not always going to beat yourself and and that's that's probably what we want and going to aim for that Absolutely but yeah, I think sometimes you've got to give yourself some grace and like, um, of course, I'm going to have all my goals laid out, for sure, but at the end of the day, it's like, just do the best that you can on the day of, and it's still going to be okay if you don't beat yourself Um, but absolutely I want to and um. It is a very different course, so it should be much faster and and um. Like Katie shy, I put down a phenomenal time on it last year.
Speaker 1:Was it last year, I think so, yeah, she went yeah, no, was it yeah. Was it two years ago already?
Speaker 2:No, oh gosh, I'm in the same boat.
Speaker 1:I give myself a handicap because I'm a sub-older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's got the course record on it she absolutely dominated, but I just you're right.
Speaker 1:I can't remember if it was like wait, did she pull off the Western States? Did she do a UTMB double? Last year? I'm I got to pull myself out from under a rock. I know she.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think she did she did yeah, okay, so I was at Western States years just blurred together yeah, I know, I know for real I feel like I'm still in 2022, 2023 and I wake up.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh no, this is 2025 no, yeah, I I did crew um one of my past teammates, Elsie Davis, at Western States last year and it was really cool to watch Katie coming through and there'd always be like this little crowd of like super young girls all like really excited like when's Katie coming, when's Katie coming? And then when she came through, like yeah it was, it was pretty cool to watch that Katie's an inspiration.
Speaker 1:Man Like oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like that whole like women's field was insane last year. Yeah, yeah, just a fun race to watch. If you not, like I said, we're not putting any pressure on this. If you do get on the podium or win, is your intention, because I know I also saw utmb on your list for this year as well is your intention to go to western states, or is UTMB going to be more the draw for this year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the question, I think on a lot of people's mind, but definitely on my mind, and it's going to be a dilemma. I am trying to choose one or the other, but there's a few things that are pulling me in either direction. I had planned this year to for it to be focused on western states and get to world champs. Um, yeah, alternatively, like utmb is definitely. It's like burning up my list and I to get there and take a crack at the hundred miler. And now, also being with our Turks, it would be really special to go to UTMB with them, for, like, it'll be their first big year with a number of athletes showing up there and you know they've got a store now in Chamonix and, um, there's people coming over, internal staff who have never been in. Part of me is like, oh, I really want to be there just to share these really special moments with them. So I'm kind of being tugged both ways, but also just resting on not making a decision yet yeah and just see how things go.
Speaker 2:and I think every year it's like we can make a beautiful race schedule, but often who knows how much of that is going to happen? And yeah, I might add in speed goat, I might add in a race in Europe, maybe in July. Um, yeah, it'll. It'll depend on a lot of things.
Speaker 1:So I think it's more fun to be fluid, Right, and just like have a couple of things and it's like, all right, I'll try to get to this. And as opposed to, like I've always found in the past, where if I like make a schedule like start to finish, like, and by the time I get to the end of the summer, like I don't want to do anything I set out to do and so like that I set the goal in like February, by the time I get to September I'm like I don't want to do this, I want to do something else. So it's kind of funny the way those things work. Obviously, it's a little bit different with races like UTMB, because it's already like annoying to get into that race, or like Western States, which is impossible to get into as well, unless you have a ticket but, like things like that.
Speaker 1:I do want to pivot a little bit to because I forgot.
Speaker 2:You're from bc, you're a canadian. How does that work with getting in the worlds for you? Yeah, yeah. So I think it's kind of similar for americans and most europeans, but we we have it's kind of like two different ways to get in. And they actually already had the qualifying race. So it was at squamish 50 50 last year.
Speaker 2:So a number of people are already on the team and I think there was like a shorter race in quebec, yeah, um, yeah. So there was those two which I did not attend. So my only way, my only option, would be going through the resume, cv, alternate route. And so they basically look at, like your racing history and yeah, like I'd be applying for the long distance on the team, and, um, yeah, so we shall see it's. And then for the americans, like the gorge and Broken Arrow is happening, and so those are going to be like quite crazy to watch for sure. Yeah, it's funny how it lines up at different times of the year. So it's hard for people, like I feel, for the Americans who, well, I don't know, maybe it's, maybe it's good that they're doing their race the gorge early in the season- but I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I'm like man, this is a mountainous race in the Pyrenees. The hell, are we picking gorge water? I mean like I'm just yeah for everybody else, like we've, this is.
Speaker 2:I else, like we've this is I've had tom hooper on. We've talked about this like oodles at times, but like, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's the timing, which is, yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's, honestly, it's, it's hard. Like, in some ways, no matter how you you tackle it, um, I don't know, I I think the whole world series they need to like have a little bit more of a a plan or like how it works that also works more with the athlete's schedules. Like, honestly, it's it's super disappointing that it's so close to UTMB and it's gonna water down both competitions and why not have it spread out a little bit more? Like, yeah, it's it's taking away opportunities and, um, I don't know, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, now, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:And I think on the American side too, it's like all right, are we going to, are they going to turn down? Uh, so let's say you apply resume right On the American side, like are they going to turn you down because you're going to be doing utmb? Like let's say, jim for instance, like jim's, like our, you know, are probably our best shot right in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:Like jim's, as dynamic as they come and it's like all right, are you gonna turn jim down because he's good plan? If he's gonna go run utmb, like what do we do with that you? Know it makes it an interesting conversation. For sure, there's a lot of nuance to the argument.
Speaker 2:It does. Yeah, and it should almost be a conversation, like I know, for road marathon athletes, when they sign a contract to do whatever Boston or New York it's like in that contract, they cannot race anything else. I don't know six or eight weeks out or something like that. Um, and that probably should be in the conversation. For worlds, and some people are thinking about double dipping, like I mean, I was considering doing OCC, which wouldn't really be favorable for my, my skills in terms of going against, like golden trail athletes and stuff like that, but it could be a good learning experience and then hop over to worlds. Um, there's risk, though. It's like three weeks apart and, uh, you just you don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:So you brought up something interesting there with uh, by saying contract, I was like the reason I say that is because, like, I haven't come across many athletes, if not any where. So, like, for instance, UTMB can sometimes be an incentive right To go race those races, but like, yeah, I don't think worlds is ever an incentive for anyone. I have never heard it been brought up, so that's interesting.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, Most, most brands are not super keen to support athletes towards it. Um, yeah, usually you have to wear a different brand attire and, um, I mean it's, it's, you can usually wear their shoes still, so there's that, and then, um, I think it's getting there in terms of the traction and the engagement and people watching it. It's still like it is a special outing and the last few years that they've done it, they've done a very good job, I think, and it's really cool. It's kind of like the closest thing we've got to the Olympics in terms of like wearing your national flag. Wearing your national flag, um, I will say like utmb and, uh, you know, even like western states or golden trail. You know, all these races are pulling the most competitive fields. Um, um, right now, in the trailer, which also worlds it, it's been stout, it. It's been like super, super, uh, the performances that people have put on there is is wild, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd be curious, Cause you seem like I gotta ask you your opinion on some of these things, Like what's your take and we can cut out any of this. You know, like it's fine.
Speaker 1:Um but like I'm just curious, like what your take is. You run, you've ran, a few UTMB races, right, Quite a few. Um, you know you're one of the biggest female athlete names in the sport. Like, what's your take on like the where the UTMB situation is and like consolidation of races in the sport versus like maintaining this like grassroots vibe that we have, but also making sure we can attract like elite level talent to a lot of these races? Like what's your, what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's kind of mixed and I think, yeah, where to start? Okay, so I do parts about UTMB that I appreciate. It's like all right. They are providing podium incentives for athletes, they're providing an experience for all athletes, recreational, whatever, everyone um, they typically do a good job in terms of like safety and marketing, um, marking the course. Um, just because they have, it's almost like they have like a standard internationally, though, that is to say, like like some of these races, as we've all probably heard, like the first year of x-UTMB race, you know there's some growing pains and and like I'm sure that every race director for a UTMB race they're going through it and learning and and um, yeah, so I think it is good to have like safety and like some standards down for races and stuff. And then you know the magical carrot of getting to the UTMB finals for everyone. It's like we all crave that buzz, that energy before UTMB and being there at the like the season capper event and I mean there's so much fervor, it's like it's insane. Um, yeah, and, and that to me is is super special and I think, just for anyone getting into the sport myself very much included um, utmb is like that is the number one race that I want to get to and take my crack at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a few times, um, yeah, and then of course, it's, it's unfortunate, like there's. It's hard to fully know what the intention behind um, the people running UTMB and and Ironman and, um, you know, do they always have the runners interests at heart? And, uh, yeah, from some of the obvious like missteps that they've taken, it's just, it's super disappointing. It's like, ah, come on, guys, like all all right, apologize and learn from this and do better. You know, for me, the, the utmb whistler race, it's yeah, it's so bittersweet. It's like, dude, come on, like what are you guys thinking?
Speaker 2:On the one hand, it would be so great to have one or two or three races in canada and to show off this beautiful country. There's so many beautiful places to run and it just provides an opportunity to people more locally. They don't have to always travel. And you know, yeah, and then Gary Robbins being like an awesome person with such a community where he's created so much community, it was just disappointing. For sure I'm going to go so far to boycott, but, um, I am going to be like supporting conversations that are healthy and, you know, it's cool to see Gary Robbins um creating more races and different locations and stuff like that. And then, um, I just I hope that they're learning from all of this. And uh, yeah, I do sit on the pro trail runners association, so lots of conversation has been had with UTMB and they are um receptive to feedback and things like that. Um, yeah, I do see we're trying to shape this quickly growing sport.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And you know, we're having these like weird outgrowths right now and it's like, OK, is that going to keep going or is this like the future? Yeah, so I think we'll all be seeing, like, where it's headed. And yeah, there's there's a lot to talk about and and, like you know, they're creating more races and in other countries and things like that, which I think is really great to have opportunities for those people in those locations. Um, I think we all, very much myself included just have to like think about how much we're traveling on a yearly basis and, uh, it's, it can be quite hard. And as a professional athlete, it's like, okay, how can I just limit my travel to europe once a year? Um, from my carbon footprint and for my body, but mostly for the carbon footprint. Um, yeah, so that's always on my mind.
Speaker 2:And then for the mom and pop races out there, like I, I wouldn't be here without mom pop races and I think they are whether they're like that first stepping stone for some people who like really take this and run with it, whether it becomes a career, or like their main passion, or they're just like an amazing, like nesting ground for local communities.
Speaker 2:And so my long answer, short is just like an amazing, like nesting ground for local communities and, um, so my long answer, short, is just like they're both important to have those mom and pop races and the bigger UTMB races. I do think, if you, if a race director wants to have a competitive field which this happens quite often where a race director will be like hey, do you want to come to my race? And like that's all great and everything, um, but yeah, if you want to have people doing this and it's like their livelihood and stuff, like I don't know, having a podium bonus of like 500 bucks or something Like I just think it's's 2025, like, um, yeah, I think we're at that time now where I even look at western states. It's like well, well, why? Why is this still a race where there's there's no prizes or or anything, and absolutely crazy, yeah, so, um, yeah, I'm not in it for the money per se, for sure, but it's also like this sport is professionalizing and I think that races need to recognize that.
Speaker 1:Um, if they want a competitive field I think there's so much to talk about and unpack there like so many coverage. I mean one thing with with the money and getting prize, or just like winning prize money in general, like I don't know. Like you said, like we're I don't know, I'm a very I know you said you're on the PTRA, like I'm like very pro athlete as opposed to anything else. So like of course, I want the athletes to be able to make as much money as humanly possible because, like, this is a finite sport.
Speaker 1:We don't last very long in the sport and you know a lot of folks, you know many folks go all in and try to figure this out, make very little money and have very short careers. So it's like and what do you have after? So like, for me, I'm like like one of the conversations that came up recently we don't have to go deep into this but Sabrina Stanley signing with OnlyFans. A lot of people had a lot of opinions on that and everybody can reserve their opinions, but the only opinion I had was like, dude, I hope she makes a million dollars. Good for her, go crazy. I hope you make the bag and can retire, because I don't know, it's just a sport where there's not a lot of money made, so with the professionalization.
Speaker 1:It would be cooler and just better for everyone involved for there to be more prize money. And I get it Like I sit on the board of a race, I know how these things are allocated, like I understand, like it can be difficult, but like why not go to external sponsors and see if they can put up prize money? Like there's always opportunities there to at least give something right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally yeah, yeah, no, it's, that's it's interesting times and people are solving it in different ways. And it is interesting. It's like okay, is this going to become like the only fans thing? It's like it's this has been in our sport for a little bit and, uh, it is interesting.
Speaker 1:It's like okay, if this was a man with the conversation being different, I don't know you know it's funny, I got, I went yes, I got so pissed the other day and I'm not gonna name who I who it was, but like it was just like three dudes debating like on a podcast about like what they thought about sabrina stanley, like I have like joint, like signing with only fans, and I was like who the hell gives you guys the right, like three dudes, to be able to say like whether this woman can like make like money, like in whatever she chooses to do.
Speaker 1:Like I don't, I don't understand. Like why, your friend?
Speaker 2:because if it was a dude I think it would be a completely different like mindset, yeah yeah, yeah, because I think in uh, cycling or something, there is um a cyclist, a male cyclist who who had him was doing only fans, but um, yeah, it's interesting. Um, I think my only thing is like all right, I do want to be a role model for the next generation. That's true too, and so that's that's like my main caveat with. It is All right. Even after I ran Cape Town, I had like six moms with their little girls. I'll reach out with like a video of them talking about it afterwards and it's just like, oh, this melts my heart.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, I I don't know how you can separate those two different things. On the one hand, it's like cool, like there's different creative ways of of making money, and like maybe even I think the other rhetoric of like, oh, women are getting forced to do this because we're not getting paid equally and the pay gap might still be there for sure, but I wouldn't say it's like I don't know, the force isn't, I don't know, it's, it's not like, um, we don't have other options as well, and, and maybe it's it's like certain people want to do that too, it's yeah, um, so, yeah, no, it's, it's interesting times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, options, I just like that. You know what. I'm glad that athletes have options right. Like you can sign with Adidas Terax or you can sign with the only fans now and there you go. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, so back to the consolidation. Like I do, I think we live in this world now.
Speaker 1:You know, I was not I, I don't want to say I'm anti UTMB. I think what they put on it's the super bowl. I think it's amazing. Some of those races like OCC, ccc and UTMB are just like the pinnacles of our sport. In a lot of way. I was actually like kind of swayed a little bit this past weekend, like when Jim and Killian and Vincent like duked it out, I was like and you know I got to wake up at 530, 6 o'clock in the morning and watch this like from Colorado and watch these guys do this in a sport that I love so much, and I was like, damn, like that's the value I think a little bit like UTMB brings, like you could watch this on the live stream and you get to watch three of the best athletes in the world like kill each other. Well, not really. Like Jim really was pretty decisive but anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, demolished, yeah, but like that was demolished, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. It was just cool to follow. So that kind of shifted it like my perception a little bit. But also it was like I think we can live in a world like this isn't going to be triathlon, like where I think we can live in a world where we'll be able to have both, you know, hopefully. I don't think the UTMB consolidation, like especially in North America, seems to have like slowed down at least a lot, you know. So I don't know, I think we can have everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think we can have both. Yeah, yeah, I think we can have both. And joining is still growing. You know, yeah, yeah, we're going to have the mom and pop races like. Even my hometown, nelson, bc, I just saw, okay, it's got two new mom and pop races like and they're selling out, you know, um. So that's, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And we can have retreats or camps as well, and they're all just different ways of experiencing the sport. You know, like some people don't even want to race, and it's whether they just want to go out and do crazy adventures. Or like someone I'm coaching even right now. She's like I just want to go run my own hundred miler, you know, and we're like creating a course and mapping it out and plotting her aid stations and everything, but she's going to run it by herself, she's going to have some friends join and all like that, and that's totally fine. That's cool, um.
Speaker 2:Or you got people who are doing FKTs and like um. So, yeah, I think that's the cool part. This sport is still like specializing, um. I look at rock climbing and rock climbing is a really good example of this. There are so many disciplines in rock climbing and you talk to a boulder or a trad or alpinist. They're completely different athletes. They are so different like personality and their build and everything. And like we still we're we're still kind of figuring this out, I think it's definitely it's happening.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's something cool too, like will you, will we see like the ultra kind of separate from like the mountain trail, like some of the like the sub stuff, right, or how will the you know more sky runner, mountain athletes kind of like separate too? I don't know. It's cool where you can, you know, or the track people like where this 24 hour stuff, like how does that fit in? Yeah, there's a lot of like disciplines which which can separate out and like be their own thing moving forward, which would be kind of cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's there for sure. Yeah, yeah, I mean I I wouldn't put myself up against like a cold trail athlete. They're so different. And I mean I was. I'm always curious Well, what if they did a hundred K or a hundred milers, Like what would happen to? Um, some of them would do great and I don't know, I don't know if some of them would break down or who's to say. But um, yeah, it's always interesting to think about it that way.
Speaker 1:I got a question off that, so you ran. Last year you jumped in the Broken Arrow VK. Yeah, are you just a little sub-ultra curious? What did you think?
Speaker 2:That was kind of like a workout and definitely got very humbled. For sure, I was also coming from almost sea level to up there, but I think my resting heart rate was like 120, so not a good start. But um, yeah, no, I mean, it kicked my ass for sure. Um, I think it would be it.
Speaker 2:It's so funny, it's like a different mind state and I find like sub-ultra it's like do people in sub-ultra just have this like mental grit that is attuned to like really sharp pain, like really really sharp, intense pain, whereas for more ultra it's like are we more crafted towards the pain? That's just like it's there for a long time but it's not as intense. Um, so, yeah, it's kind of like is this a personality thing? Obviously there's like different muscle fibers and all the training and stuff. But um, yeah, I will say when I was young and first getting the cross country, I was always like into the longer distances and even though I still at that time was talented with short track stuff, he just never like really connected with me, whether it was like spiritually or emotionally.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah, I think, I think for me, even going into this conversation, I was like well, for, for FKTs, I will say I would be much more likely to be like, yeah, I want to go try that sub ultra FKT for sure, like an up down mountain or something like that. Um, I mean, most most of the FKTs that I have tried are sub-ultra, so I think I'll keep doing that. I think the actual races are maybe a bit intimidating and I would just need to go in with that headspace of like, yeah, if I'm top 20, that's a win.
Speaker 1:It's so funny you say this Okay, so cause I'm you, but opposite I'll do like for an FKT. I would do something really long. I would never race a hundred mile or or even a hundred K. I would even race a 50 K but like sub-older stuff I absolutely love Cause I don't know it's that it's that pain I like. Love that being able to like hurt so bad, but only hurt for like an hour and two hours but like for for an fkt I would.
Speaker 1:I would really be open to doing something like an 100k distance, like it wouldn't wow, I'd be totally fine with it so it's funny how, like different different athletes like have different like approach, will have a different approach to that when it comes like the way they think about racing versus fkt's. I was going to ask you about your the. What was it? The monolia? Is that the volcano that you did um?
Speaker 2:up down fkt that were yeah halakia, is that I don't remember monica monica, that's it in hawaii.
Speaker 1:That must have been super cool. I was just in hawaii in um I think it was october, november and nice I was like dude, I gotta go back and run some of these trails. I was in maui, so that it was like dirt roads yeah and then I got sick and didn't get a chance to really run, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:But tell me about your experience yeah, the monica, it's like you know. You go from sea level to what is it above 14 000 feet um yeah, it's, it's pretty high, it's pretty high.
Speaker 2:It's pretty high. It's, like you know, technically the world's largest mountain if you consider, like the underwater part as well. Um, so, yeah, you, you definitely get some solid altitude um effects if, if you've been on Hawaii for a while or depending on where you're coming from, or um, all those things, so things. So, yeah, um, I was there for like a train camp kind of vacation and, uh, I, we had first tried to bike up, it got rained out, um, and then I did an attempt for the FKT, did not get it um the one week and, yeah, I got it. It's like so hard to breathe up there and I was not in like optimal fitness or anything like that.
Speaker 2:And then you know, you try something, and then it was just like on my mind for a week after and we were still there, so um took another crack at it and everything went a lot more smoothly. Um, and even like my partner at the time, I think he ended up supporting me and we just had like a much more dialed um plan. So I will, yeah, for for FKTs, try to give them two cracks at the very least, especially when you're like traveling, if you can. Um, yeah, you, you learn and everything. Um, yeah, I think that that time for sure can come down some more um it was like 230 something, yeah, 234, 232 or 238, I can't remember.
Speaker 2:It was something in there yeah, something on there, I think the downhill like I love a fast downhill, I will just fly down and the uphill could be improved by quite a bit, though it's really sandy. It's like I have a friend who's just going there and I was like, oh, try and do the Mauna Kea FKT. I was like, maybe bring poles, cause it's like it's like you're walking in quicksand and you just keep it. It's just really hard to get traction without losing energy. So yeah, yeah, there's a few sweet FKTs over in the Hawaiian Islands.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that speaks to you, like for an up-down or like an ascent or anything like that, that like like that's sub-alter realm, that like you'd have your interest in, like anything that I think you might take a crack at in the coming years?
Speaker 2:you probably know what I'm gonna say. Uh, the. I mean, yeah, I did hang out. I did hang out in the tetons for a bit and uh, I think the first time I went up the grand and I was with connor and michelino and I was like, oh, should I? I went up the grand and I was with Connor and Michelino and I was like, oh, should I just go for the FKT right now, you know, like just kind of joshing with them, I think we ended up doing, um, connor made it into an FKT, we did the grand, middle and south all in one day and, uh, we had like a decent pace but we still had like a pizza party on the top of, I think, like two or three of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, I would love to go after the Grand and I think it's just, it is iconic and it's cool that, like Emily and some very strong ladies, have some some sweet times on it and you do have to train for the altitude, so you got to kind of live around there somewhere high for a bit and then, um, I think the technicality when I first watched you know, there's like the classic videos of anton killian I'm checking it out.
Speaker 2:Iconic yeah, yeah, uh, I I was apprehensive before getting on it. I was like, oh, this looks way too sketchy and and everything. And then after, when I went up there, I was like, oh, no, like, um, I think the downhill, the coming off, making sure that you're being safe around people, and all of that, that would be the main part where I'd be like, yeah, okay, this is kind of dangerous, for sure, um, but um, the exposure and and everything, for, yeah, it feels pretty, pretty good I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 1:I was a little apprehensive. I wasn't sure if I was gonna because I kind of didn't bait you on it, but I wanted to see if you'd say it, just because, like I don't know for you, it kind of fits't. Bait you on it, but I wanted to see if you'd say it just because, like I don't know for you, it kind of fits very well. Having been out there for a period of time getting to see the route and then also like having a climbing background, like I feel like it's a very specific skill set you need. Like not anybody can go attempt something like that I feel like you actually have to like know how to climb like one way shape or form. Like not your average, like runner with like high running skills could go do that like you need to know it, like have some technical background.
Speaker 2:Plus, it's a hard thing to project as well, like I feel like it takes a long time to have to figure that thing out, you know yeah, yeah, I think, just getting to know all the efficiency, all the efficiencies in that route, because there are so many different ways to get up to the top. And, yeah, you get up. There's just like a boulder field and everyone is going every direction and, um, there's guiding parties, there's people and, um, yeah, I think it would. It would definitely take some time as memorizing the route. And then, um, yeah, I, I think, some of the other rock um, whether it's like middle teton or uh, two and aught is another um fun one to do and those are a bit more technical, um, but I, I love that type of like scrambling and definitely the climbing background. It just helps with like exposure and then definitely, just like your movement, fluidity over rock and spatial awareness.
Speaker 1:It's funny if you don't do it for a long, like I don't scramble very often and I was in Boulder for a photo shoot like two weeks ago.
Speaker 2:And like.
Speaker 1:I got up on like a scramble and I looked like I'm fine going up and I looked down and like had a borderline panic attack. I was like holy shit.
Speaker 1:Like I like, pull together, pull together, don't don't be that guy in front of the photographer and your peers like just just just carefully scramble down. But yeah, if you don't do it for that much, I'm like man, I've been running for too long. I need to like go like mess around on some rock and like or get in the climbing gym because I don know, I feel like if you don't do it for a long time, you definitely lose that skill. I don't know, it's weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree, it's definitely. It is a skill that you need to keep up. And yeah, I mean, I was kind of similar to you going into this 2024 summer and then, yeah, just hanging on the Tetons, scrambling a fair bit, and then a lot of my solo runs I would started to scramble as well, and it's always like sorry, mom, you know, like it does add to it like solo scrambling, and I'm not usually a fan because I, even as a climber, I still see scrambling is like in many ways more dangerous than true rock climbing. Um, just, things can happen, rocks can pull out and you know, no matter how skilled you are at climbing, scrambling still a lot of people die from it, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um boulder's weird because we have that like weird culture of it, you know yeah I shouldn't say we, because I'm not a boulder right, but like they. There is a weird culture of it where it's like very, it's like their thing it is their thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, different it is. Yeah, it was fun hanging out in boulder and it's like a big jungle gym, for sure. But, um, yeah, could see how, if you've been there for a long time and you know hearing about how like the groups will do like races up some of the rocks and um, you look at the Strava segments and the times that people have on some of those rocks, it's pretty insane. And uh, kyle Richardson is like part man, part chimp.
Speaker 1:I don't know how he does it Like it's crazy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, all right, so we're almost at we're at like an hour and a half.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start winding us down a little bit. Getting to some ending questions, I'm curious who inspires you?
Speaker 2:That is a good question. Yeah, I think a few people come to mind um, for the ladies out there, I I really admire um athletes that kind of like lead with authenticity, authenticity. So I just see that and I think I'd say, like Ruth Croft, um, I've had great competitive, uh camaraderie with Abby Hall in the past. Um, I mean Courtney DeWalter, who's like sparkling um in Transgrant and Canary. She, she, it will forever stick with me. She offered me her poles and my pole was like kind of broken Um, oh my gosh, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, really special. Um, but yeah, ruth Croft I think she's just like super real and uh, I mean, even when I bump into her on the trail, um, she's very humble, um, but then just super badass and she's had a very long career and uh, yeah, I think I think those those are the people that really speak to me and um, really speak to me and um, um, yeah, I could probably give a lot more um, uh, other athletes, um, hazel Finlay she's actually a climber, but uh, just, she's faces, fear, like full-on, and then she's just going into motherhood right now. It's always cool to watch um. And then, I think, just all the athletes, too, that are like multi-sport as well um, yeah, um, people who are into like skiing, running, climbing, um, there's that versatility and then embracing the seasons for for what they are as well, it's it's really awesome you'd mentioned authenticity curious to see like what that?
Speaker 1:I talk about this a lot because it drives me crazy. Um, both as a podcast host and as an athlete in the sport like I, I always like want people to be their true selves and it's hard, especially on social media because it's a weird outlet. It's like trying to pull that out of people or see people try to be them True selves is very to kind of like navigate through that. What does authenticity mean to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it is definitely hard with no, I mean it is definitely hard with social media and whatnot. And adding in the layer of being like, whether it's a public figure or professional athlete, it's like all right, what filters do we need to put on in terms of like upholding some credibility but still being able to like connect with people in the community? So I, I fully like recognize that for sure. I think for me it's like speaking your truth and you know if you get injured. It's like coming to terms with that and, um, when you're ready, like being vulnerable about it and just being super real. Um, or you know whether it's any sort of hardship and um, yeah, I mean I could even name like Elsie Davis.
Speaker 2:I remember when I first got into trail running, I came across her her Instagram profile and this is before she was even with the North Face, but she was just so real with her journey and she had had like stress fractures and obviously it was like figuring out her fueling and her training and everything. And, yeah, that to me it was like oh, this is someone who I want to follow and this is someone whose journey I want to like see how she overcomes this and I mean, even still, she's like very, very just real about her life. And yeah, I guess, on the flip side, um, either when everything is perfect, or, um, people not really living in, aligned with their values, um, or what they say that their values are, uh, that I guess it just like it's a bit of a red flag and um, yeah, um, just want to. Um, I think too, uh, one thing I've experienced as a female athlete it's like coming into the sport. Some people are going to be like behind your back and and really want to like you know, um, be stoked for your journey and hopefully vice versa.
Speaker 2:Um, and one thing I realized like not everyone is going to be um might be nice to you in your face, but then, like behind your back, um, that support is is not there. It's the opposite. So, um, yeah, it's something that I'm still navigating and I don't know if it's like coming from, I don't know insecurities, or maybe it's something on me or whatever, but, and I don't know if it's more of a female thing or if men also experience it. But, yeah, and that's just why like authenticity is super important to me. Yeah, and that's just why like authenticity is super important to me. It's like cool If this person is like open and humble and like they're having a great conversation with me, like they mean it and they mean well. Yeah, but a little bit sad to say, like I have experienced the opposite and yeah, I think it's just sometimes happens with sport.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting, right, you can always tell when you meet somebody very real. It sticks with you. And you're like yeah, that's a real one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, you do, there is a lot of people I don't know, it's an all sport, I think but yeah, you do meet a lot of people that are like I, just it's, I don't know. It's different at the professional level too. I think it's more so at the level of people trying to get into the professional realm, where you meet a lot of people trying to be someone else and not find their authentic voice. And I always like that. Not that it's a red flag, I don't really care. It's just that like something I identify is I talked to like a big mix of people and it's like sometimes you see people on social media and it's like man, like I, just, you know, be one of one. That's the best example. That's the best advice I always give people is like, just be be you, but be one of one, you know don't try to be somebody else, and that's that's how you get to whatever level you want to get to.
Speaker 1:you know, whatever level you want to get to you know, yeah, exactly, very well put music. I want to talk about music like why, if you're getting ready for a hard effort, you're getting ready for a race? Like, especially because you run these long distance races. Like, are you ever popping in music and like what's, what's the favorite song? Like, what's the hell yeah?
Speaker 2:definitely. Yes, uh, right now, doja cat. Right now Doja Cat is on repeat. All right, she's my girl. No, she does put out some pretty rad music. Yeah, no, I think for workouts and some long runs I'll definitely have some tunes going for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to laugh because my my old coach, dave Stevens. He's like super into music and he always puts out like a playlist like at least once a month. And, um, there's some very good tracks on there. Um, it just got me through like an indoor workout, so that's a good testament. And um, yeah, I pretty like house dancing music, for sure for workouts. But these days, like with Spotify, I mean, it's just like you're continually seeing new artists all the time. So when people ask me, like, what's your, who's your favorite artist right now, it's like there's just so much that, um, maybe it just goes with our whole ADHD issue these days with having information overload. But, yeah, I will say I'll like slow down and, you know, have some good folk music or road tunes and all like that. I have not yet listened to music during a race.
Speaker 1:What you'll get to like 60 61, and you're like you have to listen to your own breathing, and like remain I would like die if I had to listen to my own thoughts and my own breathing for 60 miles.
Speaker 2:That would drive me nuts yeah, yeah, I need to try it at some point um, I feel like it's good.
Speaker 1:Maybe, though, just being in your own head for that long, it could be good, it could be bad, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm in race. I'm like I just like to hear what's around me and especially if there was someone behind me, I'd want to know, like oh, that'd be such a terrible thing. Like you have some tunes on and you're like, yeah, this is great. And then someone zips past you like no, that'd be horrible. Um yeah, and then like airpods, my airpods are like you know, if you ever lose your airpods and you're like kind of freaking out and try to find them, um, I've done that too many times with the find my whatever app. Um, yeah, I just don't want to lose them.
Speaker 1:So, uh, that's fair, it's a good, it's a good answer. Yeah, all right, serious, seriously, not so serious, question um, oh man, I don't know if I'm gonna go bigfoot or aliens let's go aliens. Do you believe in aliens?
Speaker 2:I mean, something's gotta be out there. It's just so vast. There's got to be something out there. Maybe it's like light years away. Yeah, um, I I had in university I had a friend who studied um astronomy and uh, he would just like figure out crazy equations while we'd be like at a party or something and yeah, we would sometimes have this conversation and there's got to be something out there, for sure for sure.
Speaker 1:All right, I gotta ask you bigfoot like do you believe in bigfoot?
Speaker 2:they're alive and well out um definitely pacific, northwest washington, in the kootenays. Last I heard they were like teleporting and oh, hell, yeah, yeah, they're pretty advanced now they're out there, man, they're out there. I I'm a believer, I want to believe the least you know they're running around and hanging out yeah, I just saw that there's like a bigfoot yelling competition I saw this on instagram, yeah it was amazing yeah, it was great, some real some real talent out there, like some guys.
Speaker 1:Some guys and gals can really yeah, they can really vocalize.
Speaker 2:He's like Chewbacca and, uh, just all sorts, so highly highly recommend watching that.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, jasmine. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is an amazing conversation, honor and a privilege to have a convo and, uh, yeah, I wish you the best of luck in your 2025 season and let's definitely catch up after and, and, yeah, enjoy it. And congratulations on joining the arcteryx team and excited for what the future holds thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Just gonna go with the flow and uh yeah, just wishing everyone some happy trails out there absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank jasmine so much for coming on the podcast. What a fun episode. I want to thank Jasmine so much for coming on the podcast. What a fun conversation.
Speaker 1:Before you guys get going, do me a favor hop on Instagram and give her a follow. You can find her at Jasmine Louther. That's Jasmine. J-a-z-m-i-n-e, underscore W-L. Sorry, that was bad. J-a-z-m-i-n-e, underscore L-O-W-T-H-E-R. Give her a follow. Let her know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure she would really appreciate your words of kindness. Also, if you're interested in coaching, jasmine does have a coaching business. I'm not sure how filled up for coaching spots or if she has any coaching spots available, but if you're interested, send her a DM. I'm sure she would appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or wherever you consume your podcasts. That's how we can continue to get these episodes out and tell these amazing stories of these incredible athletes out to the world. And yeah, that's all I got for you. Guys, have a great weekend, have a good long run, have a good workout, whatever you got going on. Yeah, it's getting warm, starting to get warm here, at least in Colorado, so hopefully warm starting to get warm here, at least in colorado, so hopefully things start warming up around the country so we can uh get some good training in. So all right guys, enjoy yourself. Thanks so much. Thank you you.
