The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#88 - Alison Rudy
Meet Alison Rudy, a rising star in the mountain running community who's challenging conventional paths to success in the sport. From her home base in Leadville, Colorado—elevation 10,000 feet—Alison is crafting a remarkable career focused on sub-ultra distances and uphill dominance.
Our conversation weaves through Ali's fascinating background as a "third culture kid" who grew up moving between Bulgaria, West Africa, and various parts of the United States. This nomadic childhood instilled a resilience that serves her well on the trails, where she recently dominated the Run Through Time Half Marathon with a new course record. Just days before our conversation, she secured an impressive 4th place finish at Desert Rats 21K against a stacked field including Tabor Hemming and Sydney Peterson.
What makes Ali's story particularly compelling is her unconventional entry into competitive running. Unlike many elites with collegiate backgrounds, she discovered running as personal therapy after moving to Leadville at 17. Years of consistent training—even modest 20-mile weeks—gradually built a foundation of strength that now allows her to compete at the highest levels. Her approach to the sport balances competitive fire with thoughtful strategy, particularly evident in her recent focus on proper fueling during races.
Ali shares insights about training at extreme altitude, her favorite gear choices (including her love for Norda's 005 shoes), her musical pursuits as a folk singer-songwriter, and her work with local students in Leadville. Her excitement about upcoming FKT attempts on Mount Elbert and her race schedule including Vail Mountain Games and Mammoth Trail Fest reveals an athlete hitting her stride and ready to make waves.
Ready to be inspired by a fresh perspective on mountain running? Press play and join our conversation with one of the sport's most authentic and exciting new voices.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Miss Allie Rudy, hailing from Leadville, colorado. What a fun episode. Allie and I talked a lot about Sub Ultra. We talked about her dedication to Sub Ultra for this upcoming season. We talked about her 2025 season and plans, upcoming plans for racing Um.
Speaker 1:Allie, most recently this past Saturday, finished fourth place in a stacked group of women that included Tabor Hemming, uh, janelle links and Sydney Peterson. Uh took fourth place um in desert rats, 21 K, which is just an awesome result. Um, and even before that, uh took the dub um as well as the course record at the run through time half marathon in Salida, colorado. So Allie is absolutely just getting started probably a big season in front of her, so we're excited to see what she's going to be able to do with her plans. We talked about her 2024 season. We talked about her whys. You know why running, why sub ultra, why Leadville all these different things, which is really fun. We talked about some upcoming FKT plans that included Mount Elbert, a couple others. Don't want to give too much away, but yeah, it was just a really fun episode. Allie's not just an amazing athlete in the sport but also a fan of the sport too, talked about some of her favorite runners and who inspires her Just all kinds of fun stuff. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's a personal favorite of mine. Really amazing person Allie is, and I'm just excited to see where her future is going to take her in the sport. So here you go, it's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Listen up, guys.
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Speaker 2:I'm doing great, thank you. How are?
Speaker 1:you doing today? I'm doing great. I'm so excited we finally were able to do this. I know we've on my behalf. I'm kind of the worst person with scheduling. I need a personal assistant to do my scheduling, so I'm happy. Thank you so much for being flexible in the timing and everything, so I'm so excited we were finally able to have a chat.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You're talking to probably the worst scheduler also.
Speaker 1:How's your day going?
Speaker 2:It's been good. I called in sick today, quite honestly, oh wow, but it was kind of necessary. I've been doing some long days lately and just needed a bit of time. I'm going to a trail running festival this evening in Buena Vista as well.
Speaker 1:Super cool. How's life in Leadville, Colorado? Is it cold for you up there today?
Speaker 2:It's cold here in the spring. So, oh yeah, we got a dusting of snow. Um, we were supposed to have a week of like 50 degree weather, so I was really looking forward to that, but it was short lived. So, yeah, we got like a few inches just a couple of days ago, and then it's kind of been coming down ever since.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's a crazy. Do you ski at all? Are you like a skier? You just a full-time runner I do um schemo.
Speaker 2:So I haven't had a downhill ski pass in like three, four years now. Um, but I do try to get out um on, usually just inbounds and at the resorts, um like once or twice a week nice building, that build a building, that engine.
Speaker 1:I feel like you have to in in leadville just because it's so high and it's like what are you going to do? Run on icy, snowy roads or the treadmill all season? So you got to find something to do right In the winter.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, I have definitely done more treadmill days than I'd like to admit this winter, but it's also been helpful in building up speed, and that's an aspect that I've been looking forward to just diving into in my running.
Speaker 1:Sweet. Well, I'm not going to bury the lead too much. You just came off a huge win, a like very dominant win at the run through time half marathon. Congratulations, thank you. I appreciate that. How does that feel? That's going to feel pretty sweet. It's such a it's like an early season race. It's always pretty competitive both on like the full marathon and the half marathon side. And like, yeah, you like beat some huge names of of years past, like a lot of like really strong females. You've completely dominated their times. So congratulations to you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Yeah, that was probably one of my best results that I have had, um, and I definitely have been putting a lot of preparation in um, just to the specific, the specific distance, probably since like July of last year. So I actually went to go to do the Moab Trail Half Marathon Championships and that race did not go well for me, so I think I had a bit of a fire burning for the whole winter season. That kind of gave me some motivation to sign up for an early season race. And, yeah, other than that, I've been coaching since then as well. I started coaching with um my coach Tucker, last July and so I just went into that race with a ton of confidence and, um, I really felt prepared and that's kind of the direction I'm feeling for this season, Um, at least in comparison to last season into last season's nice perfect execution.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about the race a little bit later, I think. First, before we dive into things like I'd be really curious and I think the audience would, would be like what's like the five minute elevator pitch on, like how you got into running, like how you ended up in leadville, like let's, let's hear your backstory oh gosh.
Speaker 2:well, I'm one of those people who, like people who know me well, say oh, you've just lived a million lives. I did grow up moving around overseas and then after that I moved to Leadville at about 17 years old. So I did my first half marathon when I was 11 years old, living in Bulgaria actually.
Speaker 2:And then I did some cross country throughout high school, but I went to a few different high schools so that was always pretty short lived. I really got into running when I moved to Leadville. I came up here to go to Colorado Mountain College just study outdoor education. They have dorms up here, so it was a fun kind of opportunity and I actually went through a pretty like challenging situation while living in the dorms and that just kind of forced me to really embrace running as a way to like just find peace and solace for myself. Um, so I was never competitive.
Speaker 2:Um, I guess when I initially got into running I wasn't like an ex NCAA or, you know, would barely even call myself like a high school cross country runner. Um, so yeah, it was just my, um, my outlet and I just started going running pretty consistently, um, because it felt good and it was a way to get out. Um, and after a few years of that I realized like, oh, I've been training pretty consistently. Like you know, I think people really don't value the benefit of like a 20 mile week, enough. You know, I think people really don't value the benefit of like a 20 mile week, enough. You know, that's actually a lot of running to do.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, I think just having a few years of that under my belt, I've really become a lot stronger. And then one day it just kind of clicked like I'm kind of ready to compete now, so, yeah, and then, other than that, I also um, in a couple of years, after moving to Leadville, I moved to Washington and then shortly after that I moved to Alaska. So I also got into a lot of ski mountaineering up there, Not like ski mountaineering, but actual ski mountaineering with heavy skis and ice axes and, yeah, just do a bunch of long days and traverses. And that was another kind of inspiration for getting outside.
Speaker 1:It's like learning how to survive in the mountains. I feel like just learning that at a young age is just so important, right.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah. When I was living in Alaska, I was actually in an avalanche, and that definitely changed a lot of my mindset when it comes to just exploring outdoors and safety, and that's probably why I prefer to train inbounds on my skinny skis these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't blame you. Let's probably rewind the clock a little bit. I want to talk about Bulgaria. Was your family like military or like what were you doing, like just like family, from there, or?
Speaker 2:how did you-? So? My dad worked for the Peace Corps. He was like a country director and directed like training and stuff, so we were actually limited to developing countries. So yeah, I lived in Bulgaria from the ages of like nine to 12 years old.
Speaker 1:So that's pretty formative years, Like did you learn language and like what was like just that experience, like for you overall Pretty, pretty cool, or oh, I love Bulgaria, it's.
Speaker 2:I got to go to an international school. I had friends from every country and I don't know. The education there is just amazing. Um, we'd get out. My parents were pretty good about getting us outside, so I got to do some backpacking and skiing there and I I just absolutely loved it. Um, I think that's really all I can say. I did not want to leave when it was time to go. And, yeah, I think Eastern Europe is a really underrated area and I tell everyone that if you're ever going to go to Europe, try the Balkans. The mountains are pretty great.
Speaker 1:And I feel like, too, just from at that young age, being able to it just makes you more of a like a worldly person, like it opens up your mind to things that aren't just like in our own backyard, right, you realize it's a much bigger world out there and you meet more worldly people. I don't know, it's just like it changes you a little bit. I feel like when you're spending like formative years and younger years abroad to be able to meet people, not just like learning languages and being more diverse, but like also just I don't know, just looking at the world in a little bit of a different way, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. There's actually a term I don't know if you've heard of it called like third culture kid, and it's what they call kids who have kind of moved around overseas to the point where, like America or the country that you're originally from doesn't really feel like home, but you also can't say that you're from the country that you lived in or the country you feel connected to, so you're kind of just in this third culture. It's hard to explain. One of the hardest questions for me has always been like where are you from? Because I lived in Boulder a little bit, because we did move back to the States in between, living overseas at points, but then I moved to West Africa after that and just never really had a good answer for that question.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so cool. What part of West Africa did you live in? Where were you out there?
Speaker 2:I was in Burkina Faso, so it's the only kind of landlocked country other than Mali in West Africa and yeah, that place just has the most amazing culture and people. I you know, kind of like I said, I have always dabbled in running, even at younger ages, and so I was like 14 living there and I'd go run in the local park and there were just crocodiles kind of swimming around and having that experience was definitely formative. It was weird coming back to the States and being like oh, this is not anywhere as exotic, I guess.
Speaker 1:I guess you got mountain lions and bears, not, uh, crocodile well, crocodiles further south, but yeah, it's still.
Speaker 2:It's pretty dope well, and you're from florida, so, um, do you guys have crocodiles or alligators? Both we have a small.
Speaker 1:So like in the very like furthest south of like florida, we have the american crocodile, which are dope. If you ever see one, they're like really cool, like it looks like a normal, like nile crocodile more or less, and we've got alligators all over the place. But alligators are like not mean, they just kind of chill and like really yeah, they just kind of do their thing like they.
Speaker 1:They, you know, as long as you don't go in the water and like hang out with them, like you know, even if they're like hanging out on a bank, like they don't bother you, like alligators are super, super calm. Uh, there's this cool spot that we'd go to in everglades national park, um, which is shark river valley, and it's like this 13. It's actually sweet. You can go run it.
Speaker 1:If you're ever down there, happen to be in miami um, it's a 13 mile loop like paved loop through like the everglades, and it's like a just a giant loop um, and you can, uh, you could bike it, you can run it. I'd always go run it and like the alligators and you can google this like just alligators is like chill on the banks, it's like maybe seven to eight feet wide and there's alligators just like chilling on the banks on both sides and they just hang out and they don't bother you. And that's where you'll sometimes see like American crocodiles as well, cause you'll see them in the Everglades. But, yeah, pretty sweet.
Speaker 1:And I can't imagine that can't imagine that super cool florida's a crazy place to grow up to. Like everybody, like you know, thinks of florida as like miami or, like you know, disney world or something like that and like, yes, sure, those are big things to do, but yeah, like the environmental stuff is like really cool, like get exposed yeah, I would almost compare it more to like australia or something where there's just animals, it's the other land down under that's what I call it big bugs too, like I'm terrified of spiders.
Speaker 1:Uh, like like definitely terrified of spiders. I mean that's one thing I was really excited for when we moved to colorado. I was like there's not going to be a lot of big spiders and I was really kind of let down like we actually have big spiders here.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's good for me. That's why I moved up as high as I could, just to avoid the spiders I've listened, listened.
Speaker 1:I've been on 14 years and I've seen spiders. So yeah, I guess they're there. Oh, yeah, they're, they're hanging out.
Speaker 2:So not that big but they're around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's. Let's talk about you. Back to you. So I'm curious to like about so a lot of like. Your running history is just like consistency. And then you said to me one day that you just decided I think I'm ready to start competing. What was that switch that flipped for you, and what competition was your first one? You hopped in.
Speaker 2:Let's see. Yes, oh, it probably would be my first 50K. So it was, well, my first 50K. I DNF. That was the Broken Arrow 50K in 2022.
Speaker 2:So once again kind of started a little fire burning and I signed up for a 50 K called mountain rats. Actually, it was a 55 K and I was not really aware of how big of a difference that can really be from the 50 K Um, and I was able to get first place at that one and, just you know, had a really good race the whole way. Um, I wasn't trained for it. I wasn't, you know, like I didn't think I would be competing, and so it was just surprising to come away with the wind for that one and um, that same week I was just kind of scrolling through Instagram and saw all these posts about um so watch a cent.
Speaker 2:So, um, the week following my first 50 K, I was like you know what? I'm just going to sign up for Swatch Ascent and ended up doing two 50Ks back to back. That one was kind of interesting. I showed up late for it and was able to start 10 minutes after everyone and managed to get fourth place at that one on pretty heavy legs. So I think that was those kind of two 50Ks just showed me like I think that was those kind of 250ks just showed me like you can do more than what you expect of yourself. And I was just so excited to race after that experience and it's kind of the rest is history. I think I have taken most of my racing since then pretty seriously.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about living in Leadville and the Arkansas River Valley area. Obviously, courtney DeWalter lives in your town. Mike Ambrose there's a lot of huge names in the sport, whether they be executives or athletes, that live in the greater Leadville area. Do you hang out with these people? Are they readily available, or is everybody kind of do their own thing, like Noah Williams? There's so many people, does everybody kind of do their own thing? What's it like living there?
Speaker 2:I would definitely say that people do their own thing. Um, I actually used to live across the street from Courtney, so it always be running by while she's hanging out on her deck with Kevin and kind of the Leadville crew, um. But we have a couple of run groups up here. I wouldn't say that like all the people you just named really attend those super regularly.
Speaker 2:Um, I think for me I just train a little bit differently than a lot of people in Leadville and from my perspective, a lot of people move here and really focus on distance and volume and so, yeah, I don't really do too much running with other people.
Speaker 2:I have a few friends in like Buena Vista and Summit as well, but yeah, I think a lot of people just do their own thing. It's really hard with scheduling as well, like people's jobs up here, like Noah's a ski patroller and like I work at the school for like 11 hours a day because I am a substitute teacher and I run an afterschool program. So a lot of times I'm just trying to fit training in where I can and I'm not able to fit training in where I can, um, and I'm not able to make it to those group runs, but, um, I think one really fun part about being here is we all do run the same routes in the winter. Um, there's not too many options, especially when there's ice and snow on the ground, so you almost always get a little flyby from you know, courtney. Um, you know whoever might be running.
Speaker 1:Because you're a sub-altra athlete, are you more dirt roads and track kind of girl in the winter? And then you'll do Schemo for uphill, for vertical, or what are you doing in the winter for your training?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, it really just varies. We kind of just have three roads. One of them is pretty flat, so that's my flat run, easy run for the week. And then we have um one called black cloud and seventh street, and you know you're not getting any less than like seven, 800 feet of gain in those ones Um. So it's uh, yeah, that's. Those are the regular routes I'm doing. I live outside of Leadville, um, in a place called Be Lakes Estates, so we have a pretty good road here that I run on. But I would say the only time I'm really getting a flat run in is on the treadmill. And then, yeah, for long runs I go down to Buena Vista and Salida almost every weekend. It just helps to get those drier trails. Even if we have a flat road here, it's usually just icy and slippery on a day like today or in the wintertime. So, yeah, that's kind of my general plan for training and where I run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so nice. Even though you live at 10,000 feet-ish, you can get down to 6,000 and 7,000 feet like BV and then Salida pretty easily. I love that Arkansas River Valley. I don't want to blow it up too much on the podcast because enough people live there already, but it's like man, is it such a cool? I have a lot of friends that live in salida and it's just like man. If I was going to pick a mountain town to live, that would probably be the one that are like I don't know, I like the remoteness of like silver tins or like hooray, but hooray just gets too many people. But yeah, silverton's dope oh, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I just you know that would be an even more challenging place to live than leadville. I can't imagine being you know that far from like a main highway.
Speaker 1:I don't know how, like avery and sabrina do it like I. I don't know if I could live there all year round, like I would have to be, like really committed to skiing, or else like I would lose my mind yeah, it just takes so much grit.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you can kind of avoid some of that grit and challenge living in leadville by doing things like treadmill running and going down south, but I don't know how they can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I mean I'm in the springs, like we had a mild winter and like I was on the treadmill so much this off season. I like my treadmill, I was. I cracked the uh the deck on the thing. I hate the. You ever run on nordic track how they have like the bounce to it I don't think I have actually, if you, ever.
Speaker 1:Next time you're I don't know if you happen to ever be around a nordic track treadmill hop on it, because it's got like a bag, sure, like bounce to it that it shouldn't have, probably, like they all do, because they have like a almost like a um extender to where you can get like 30 grade like going uphill on it okay and I've cracked the deck on that thing like three times.
Speaker 1:Like like it will not run. Like if you try to run anything under like a 540 mile on it, like it literally will snap in half, or like yeah, it's kind of funny anyway, is that like your local gym, or is that your treadmill, my treadmill? No yeah so yeah, I was I went up and told the wife so I was like damn it, I broke the treadmill again. She's like again yeah, so I don't know, I gotta gotta get my guy out to fix it.
Speaker 2:So oh, that sounds like a bummer. I can't imagine it's cheap either no, you know what warranties.
Speaker 1:Warranty is the way to go on those. Yeah. So listeners listening. Yeah, get yourself a warranty on your nordic track episode not sponsored by nordic track. Um, back to you, back to running and back to training. So what does your stuff look like? What was your block leading up? I'm just out of pure curiosity and as a coach what was your block leading up to the half marathon? For instance, were you doing two to three workouts a week with hills? What were you throwing in there for speed workout and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:Um. So let's see, I I really didn't do like too much of a block. I think I would say I was still just in general winter training mode at that point and you know, I think my coach knew about it like a month and a half out, so he just threw in some extra workouts and smaller tempos, but, um, it didn't really feel like there was, you know, this one piece of time that I was putting a ton of effort into. I kind of just maintained training and amped up a bit, um, in the weeks before. Um. But with that being said, I I've been doing like workouts consistently all winter.
Speaker 2:Um, I know a lot of people are like, oh, don't, don't run in the winter, give yourself an off season. But for me, just keeping the mileage pretty low, having schema in there, it's been really manageable. So yeah, I, just I, I didn't really feel like I needed too much of a block. And then also, I really don't know or understand much about training compared to my coach. He has a sports management degree and has been coaching for years. So I'm just like Tucker, I'll do what you say.
Speaker 1:That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, it's. It's really. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Like I just started like self-coaching myself within the last like six months and like really got into the whole like you know macro, mezzo and micro cycles and learning like how to put these blocks together. It's so interesting. I don't know like you can, especially for like sub. I feel like you can apply more for sub ultra as opposed to like ultra stuff, because like ultra is kind of long right, it's like, yeah, maybe one to two workouts a week and then everything else is go, you know dabble and play around in the mountains and just kind of you know, maybe throw some tempo in on your long run. But like for sub ultra, like you got, you gotta be fit as hell. Like it's it almost like all the time you have. You can't just like quite be peaking all season but you have to be like almost right there the entire time. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of cool and interesting science behind it that I don't know kind of gotten like sucked into in the last like few months. It's kind of fun.
Speaker 2:Definitely Well. I'm curious what does your training look like in Colorado Springs and being self-coaching?
Speaker 1:Oh man, it's like I'd say like very block-based, so like five to six week blocks. So like I came off my winter block and I did, it was like put together like two kind of mixed trail, or I'd mix it up like a lot of roads but also a lot of trail. I did like five or two of those and then now I'm on a like a defined speed block, so like not touching the trip maybe, maybe touch the trails, like once a week for my hill workout, um, and then everything else is like track and track and road and like it's uh, I'd say like three works out for three work. Yeah, three workouts a week.
Speaker 1:three and a half workouts a week if you count hills so okay more stuff like that and like yeah, like today I just got back from um I did what was like a three mile tempo and then I think I capped it off with like 12 by 400 meters, uh, and then like 90 seconds between those and like some cool down miles.
Speaker 2:Super fun that's an intense workout fast is so awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's cool. I've been and it's like it's funny because, like I'm a sportive athlete, so like I'm so used to like trail shoes and lately I've been like kind of going crazy with my uh, like trying to figure out what road shoes work for me and like I I've been like really dialing in that and it's kind of nice.
Speaker 2:So it's different, it's fun, it gives me something to do, right absolutely yeah that's awesome yeah, goal of mine is actually to um kind of figure out what some of my track prs are, because I really don't have a um 5k pr, 10k pr or a mile pr, because I've never actually went for it um. And so, yeah, if you have any recommendations for a good track shoe, let me know, because I don't think I own any road shoes except for some poke bondi oh, you know what I just got?
Speaker 1:what the hell did I get? It was the a6. Um, what is the name of that shoe?
Speaker 1:uh, nova blast and it's like it's kind of do everything kind of shoe. It's just a trainer, it's not like a super shoe or anything like that. But I literally just picked up a pair of those the other day and wore them on my run today and like they performed great like on the track and they performed great on the road because I like I did a little road warm-up before and felt really good at them. So I was like very cushioned, like super cushy and nice. But yeah, I highly recommend those. Like kind of say, like asics kind of nailed it with that shoe, so I'll have to check it out, yeah, so let's get back to you. I want to talk about desert rats. You've got desert rats coming up. When. When is that? It's like two weeks from now, one week from now something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, On the 13th I believe it's on a Sunday, 10 days out. Okay, are you? Are you tapering for that one? Or are you just going to do it as a training run, like what's the plan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I definitely will be tapering for this one Um and um. Yeah, I've had a pretty good training block leading up to it and, um, kind of finishing up some of my last workouts this week. Um, I'll probably have like a long run workout on Saturday, um, but yeah, other than that, I'm just really exciting. A really big aspect of sub ultra that I've been working on is the fueling piece. I think. In the past I thought, oh, I can just make it 13 miles without eating anything. Um and um. During run through time I was able to get down like three precisions. So, um, I'm just really excited to see kind of what I can do with the fueling I have worked on the last few months. Um, and you know I've I've put the time and effort into the speed, um, and I've put the time into endurance. So just knowing that my feeling is feeling good too, I'm just really excited for this race and just hoping I can do something crazy I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. What's the? So talk to me about fueling. Like it's funny, because in sub ultra I get asked this question a lot, like, oh, what do you do for fueling? And I'm like, yeah, I just take it because, like, usually I race like circ series races, so like I'll just take a couple of gels and like, if I need one, I need one. Yeah, I'm pretty laxed with it, but like I just started feeling a lot more and I'm like man, like if you want my workouts, like I feel really good and I'm recovering faster, like what do you?
Speaker 1:who would have thought Um? So tell me about your feeling, like what are you doing, um, and like what's working for you.
Speaker 2:So I definitely went down a bit of like the David Roach GI training rabbit hole where you know I would just be on a long run and try to take like two or three gels at once and just kind of run through that discomfort.
Speaker 2:But other than that I've just been so consistent with the eating.
Speaker 2:I think it's been great probably half a year, six months now that I've gotten to at least 70 carbs an hour on my long runs, um, and I've actually even been eating during workouts. Even if it's only like an hour long, I just pop a gel in um kind of right before a tempo or if I'm doing like a you know two tempos back to back, like eat something in between, um, and I just think it's really given me the confidence and and my stomach is a lot more used to eating at high efforts now and I think that's what had been missing in the past, even when I did try to eat consistently is I couldn't do it during a long, a hard effort. So I'm just really excited to have developed that skill and keep working on it and I've pretty solely stuck to precisions. But my stomach is handling some never seconds and SIS, beta fuels as well, but I also don't really veer from those brands. I think I know what's comfortable for me and I stick to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do. I'm a big Martin guy. I used to do a lot of Martin gels and those have always worked. I have not tried the CIS ones, though, and that everybody like says amazing things about those gels. I guess like a little bit cheaper, which kind of helps you can buy a ton of them, right?
Speaker 2:So exactly yeah, which that's actually um part of the reason I've done so well fueling is um had this keep this on the download but had a bit of a hookup um from a friend who works for a race series and uh, there you go. He gives me some of the the extra gels and food there. So nice, if I came down, I actually had a goodie bag of morton's for you, so oh my gosh, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I'll see you. I'll see you at a race. We'll have you out on the podcast again. We'll bring out to the spring I can even.
Speaker 2:That'd be great. I can even mail him or something. Do you like Tailwind as well?
Speaker 1:I'm not as much a Tailwind guy. I have a buddy that's an ambassador for Tailwind. He tries to give me Tailwind all the time and this is no shit against Tailwind. I'm really bad with fueling. I'm just not a liquid calorie guy. I'll take my gels on, eat, eat heavy foods like pre and post workouts and then like when I do my workouts, like I don't run a crazy distances, like I might run like 70, 80 miles a week, like I'm not doing crazy like long stuff. So yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of funny with that. You know what I have just tried. I jumped on the train or the bandwagon on is um, what is it? Blank sports nutrition. Have you ever heard of them?
Speaker 1:they, it's this company called I haven't no, they're like based in flagstaff and like basically it's like democratized fueling and I like it because it's just like really inexpensive and really cheap. And they make like they make a recovery powder, they make and they make hydrogel powder and they make like um, like, uh, like just like normal, like your tailwind stuff, but like they make a particular like hydro gels, um, and it's just like, literally it's I think it's like 200 calories a scoop um, and you they give you like these little um, like hydro hydro pack um, like almost like just like little gel packets so they're reusable and like I just take a bunch of those with me on my run. Like I'll probably bring like probably two or three now. So like for like today, like track, like I brought two with me and that was great. I mean that was like a couple hundred grams of carbs that I fueled with.
Speaker 1:And like they have all different um, it might be hard on some people's stomachs but like they have like pineapple flavor, blue rat, they have like all these like really good flavors that are I've just like been kind of blown away by. So yeah, and like not sponsored any. I just happened to a company I just happened to come across that I really liked and I was like damn blank sports nutrition. Yeah, they make good stuff, so highly recommend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll have to check those out. Yeah, I'd love to try some more flavors like that. Sometimes it feels like they're slacking on the flavor trend.
Speaker 1:Were you one of those people Like when you first entered the sport, like I would only do like goos and like the s'mores goos or something like that, and like, oh my God, it was so bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I cannot go anywhere near a goo anymore. I don't know how I ended up with so many when I first started running and I don't know how I got so many down, because they're just disgusting.
Speaker 1:I don't know how. I guess everybody that's like a noob falls into the trap. So let's talk. Let's talk about you. I want to get into.
Speaker 2:So after desert rats like, what do you got planned for 2025 um? So yeah, like I said, I'm mainly just doing sub ultras. So I'm planning on doing um two events. At veil mountain games I'm gonna do the 10k and um peppy's face off. So I'm really excited for that. Part of me is like, oh, maybe I should have just like done Pepe's or give myself a chance at, you know, podiuming at one, but it's too fun of an event to not do. You know both of them. So really excited for that one.
Speaker 2:I have like a couple, a bit of extra time in the summer to work on FKTs. So I'm going to be going for the Mount Albert FKT, probably in July, and if that doesn't work out then I'll go for it again in September. So I'm really excited about that. I'm also going to go for the Buffalo Mountain Loop FKT and then after kind of after that, I'll definitely do like a Cirque series race. And yeah, I talked to Andy Wacker and he's helping me get over to mammoth trail fest. So I'm doing the 26 K over there. I'm really excited. So I'm stoked for that one because I haven't done a super competitive race um in a while and I, you know, got on a little weight to the broken. Got on a little late to the broken arrow train and I'm on a wait list. But figure, mammoth is just as good of a choice. Yeah, other than that, I have one more race. Oh, I'll do the Moab Trail Half Marathon Championships again this year.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Oh, and then Leadville Heavy Half Marathon as well, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got a great schedule. That's going to be sweet. A little mix of stuff around, you know, not too far away from you, and then also some stuff far away. You know it's funny. When I was researching, when I was getting ready for your episode, I just happened to click on mammoth trail fast 26 K I was like dude there's like 800 people signed up for that race.
Speaker 1:I was like, how do people get out to mammoth Like? Isn't it like super far, or like from like LA or like any airport? Isn't it like really hard to get to?
Speaker 2:I have not. I actually do not either. I haven't done a lot of research, um, and he just told me he could get me into the race and help with accommodation. So I was like, well, I will figure that out later, so I'll be, looking for like plane tickets and all of that. Um, you know, there's a chance I might end up just driving, because if it is really that far from airports sounds like an easier way to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's probably a really beautiful drive to driving out that way through Nevada and yeah that's not If you have a couple days to spare. Now you're so, you're a teacher, so do you get? You have summers off, then right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am, I'm so jealous of you.
Speaker 2:Well, so I'm not like a certified teacher. I um, I'm just a substitute and then I run an afterschool program. So sometimes I do end up working in the summertime, um, but I usually still end up getting at least a month off or so, um. So I'll run like a credit recovery program for students who fail their classes. Um, and this year is really exciting, we changed our programming around so I get to take students backpacking and we'll recover their credits that way. So, looking forward to that one, I'll have to figure out how to train for that week, but other than that it'll be cool.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. What is that program like? Is it just like backpacking through the backcountry, or how does that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, this will be my first time doing it. We've always been in the classroom in prior years just going through an online program nothing special and our school decided that it was too easy of a program and kids were failing classes and then recovering them in like two days and it wasn't super fair. So, yeah, they just added this program. We'll have like two or three days where we just go on day hikes and do some planning, and then we'll do like a three to five day backpacking trip. I think it'll just be in the collegiate round and in near Leadville. And yeah, I'm not sure what the curriculum will look like, but there'll be some type of learning. So we'll see how that one goes.
Speaker 1:That is so rad. Oh my learning. So we'll see how that one goes. That is so rad, oh my God. So I have two younger cousins, one just graduated high school and one is, I think, junior or senior, and they went to Colorado Mountain College in Carbon I think it's in Carbondale.
Speaker 1:And dude, their school is so cool, they're not even in class. I'm like, do you guys even learn? What do you do? You're in the mountains the whole time and hanging out and having fun. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? What a nice, I don't know, what a nice life. That would have been such a cool experience. We have such beautiful outdoor systems and trail systems and all these different things To get more kids at a younger age out on the trails and exploring. I think it's just. I just think it's so like good, developmental, wise right.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, that's something I'm really passionate about. I think, living in Leadville, a lot of people come here and think, oh, I'm in this outdoor Mecca, it's so beautiful, I have all these outdoorsy friends. But the truth is, if you think that way, you're probably living in a bit of a bubble because, like, the real population here doesn't have access, like most of my students don't even have a pair of hiking shoes or even a winter jacket, and so just finding ways to kind of inspire that accessibility and get kids outside, I know that's one of my favorite things. I used to be a girls on the run coach as well, so I got to, you know, I'd take the girls out on, like the mineral belt trail, and it's crazy how just one experience can be so formative. I think it's important to you know, yeah, give those opportunities to as many people as possible.
Speaker 1:And like you never know who you're like showing the trails to right, like you might have the next Courtney to Walter, like in that class, or like you know something like that, like it could very well happen. Just kind of cool.
Speaker 2:Oh, exactly, yeah, I have one student. He's not a runner, but I swear this kid's going to be a professional like biker in some shape or form, because he lives like five miles out of town and every day he just bikes or walks to and from school and he's been doing this for years and I just can't imagine how strong this kid is.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a monster. Oh my God, he's got to get him signed up for races, man.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I'm working on getting him on our mountain biking team for now.
Speaker 1:There you go. That's cool. The school has a mountain biking team.
Speaker 2:That's dope oh wow, it's not actually the school, but we have a cool nonprofit called Cloud City Mountain Sports, so they have Nordic Alpine, mountain biking, a bunch of cool stuff.
Speaker 1:Super cool. Wow, that's amazing. I want to get back to I do want to double back to racing. One of the things I was going to ask you is because you're a really good uphill runner Phenomenal. Your Sunupi result kind of blew me away for the vertical Sixth place at the U S mountain running champs for the ascent. Um like, do you have any aspirations to like do more vertical races like, uh, like VKs and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:A 100%. And actually when I was talking to you about races, I forgot to mention that I will be doing the um dragon's back ascent I think is what it's called at Mammoth Trail Fest. Yeah, so yeah and um, I'm just really excited between like training for Elbert and um in that race and then like Pepe's face off at Vail. I think I have some really good opportunities to kind of show off some of my uphill skills. And yeah, I don't know if it's skimo, I've just always really loved uphill running. I think a lot of that stemmed from some of the like ski mountaineering I did living in Washington, alaska. If you're carrying a 50-pound pack with skis walking uphill, that's a million times harder than just being a little runner in your vest, and so I'm always excited for the uphill. But the downhill is really my caveat. I'm working on that right now, continuously. Fair enough, me too, me too, yeah, I my caveat. I'm working on that right now Continuously.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, me too. Me too, yeah, I don't know, I don't. I just don't like the downhill as much as I like the uphill, like really, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I swear I can't get into the same flow Like when I'm running uphill, even on uneven technical trails. It's there's just a different flow to it. You're just able to push yourself in a different way. I feel like I'm just kind of letting go when I'm running downhill like trying relinquishing all my control and just letting it rip.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, no man. So what's probably the race you're most excited for out of the season, like you probably have like start like what's going to be the race you peak for.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is such a hard question. I um, I think the reason it's hard to answer is the last couple of years I focused on longer stuff and then that prevented me from doing as many races and so I've just had like a two year backlog of being like, oh, I wish I did the Leadville heavy half marathon, I wish I did umville Heavy Half Marathon, I wish I did Pepe's Face Off. So I would probably say I'm most excited for Mammoth Trail Fest. Just knowing that it's going to be a stacked field, knowing that I'll get to hang out with some of the trail team people.
Speaker 2:I can't really decide whether or not the 26K or the vertical I'm more excited for, but just that race, both of those races in general, um, but I actually say I'm almost just as excited about the Leadville heavy half marathon. I've been training on those exact routes for, you know, seven, eight years now and, um, just excited to see what I can do. I feel like, you know it's, there's a pretty good course record there, but I also think it could come down. So we'll see what kind of day I can have out there.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's a proper course. I mean, that's like what it's like fifth, what? 15 miles with like four, maybe 5,000 feet. It's like a solid amount of climbing right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and then it's also up high. I think a lot of it is above like 11,000 feet as well, but that's where it's nice living in leadville and say it's nice for you, I would die.
Speaker 1:Like coming from 6 000 feet, like it's funny. I even went for a run the other day. I was up near like 9 000 feet and I could feel the altitude, like I was like man. This doesn't like feel I'm working harder than I want to be or feel like I'm working harder than I want to be because this is higher. I was like I don't like this. I've been like I have.
Speaker 1:I have 6,000 feet for too long, whereas, like you, it's so crazy to come from 10,000 feet. Like everything's easier for you guys. Like it's yes, the power generation is a little bit different.
Speaker 2:Like you guys are a little bit slower, but like you're so much fitter and you know, in a lot of ways, yeah, I feel like one thing that is different for me from other athletes who don't live at elevation is like I'm just so comfortable on uphills, like I'll be running next to someone and they'll just be breathing so hard and just working so hard and I'm like man, I I'm saving it for the downhill right now. Um, and so just having that kind of strength, um, I don't think a lot of other runners have that strength. I think a lot of people do great on the downhill, which maybe I'm generalizing. But yeah, um, like for example, at Cirque series, I um, cirque series, a bet basin last year I was able to actually leave the race for like two miles, but to me I was like I'm, I'm actually comfortable right now. I don't feel like I'm out of my bounds, um, with the pace I'm going. But I also knew that I would be passed very quickly on the downhills. So that was, that was a fun one.
Speaker 1:How was that race? You raised some stout, including one of my teammates, jane mouse. Like you've raised some stout ladies at that race. Like how did that? You had a great finish. Like what did? How did that unfold for you?
Speaker 2:Oh man, um, I, yeah, I really surprised myself on the uphill. I definitely didn't think I could have hung with someone like Jane and she was just phenomenal. You could tell she was so comfortable the whole climb, yeah, and I got ahead of her just for like a mile or two, probably a mile like four or five or so a bit before the summit. And then she passed me kind of right on the summit and I was just amazed at, like, how she maintained herself on the downhill and it just seems like she continually sped up throughout the whole rest of that race.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, I, I just got to the top, I was feeling good, and then I ate a maple and that was kind of before I had trained with precisions or anything and it ruined my stomach. So, um, by the time I got to the kind of flatter road where people are really throwing down like five minute miles, I was just struggling. I looked down at my watch and was doing like an eight minute mile on this easy downhill and I think, um, alexa Aragon just sprinted by me and I I knew like there's no way I can catch her right now. Um, but I think that was also a really good learning experience, knowing that I needed to work on fueling and that, um, I needed to work on my downhill running as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and actually I'm sorry I think the best part of that race was I used to be on the All In Trail Collective. I got a scholarship through them and I got to race my coach, rosa, but I had signed up for expert because I wanted to give myself the best chance of winning a prize and Rosa was in the pro category. So I think I was in like fourth place and all the girls had passed me. And um, and then Rosa comes running by and I tried to yell at her like you're so close to the podium, like just go past this one girl and you'll get on the pro podium. But she didn't quite hear me. So, um, I think she ended up in like fourth place, but she was so close to to podiuming that one. So cool.
Speaker 1:What I was just going to say was those races are so like competitive and difficult, like, if you don't put yourself in it, like you're going to get swallowed up it's, and there's so much fun. You know like to smash yourself and you know you should like look at some of these. You should look at like the Alta race and like some of the snowbirds, cause they're a little bit higher altitude too, you know not quite, they're like 10, 11, like 8 to 11 000 feet, but like you could totally smash one of those courses.
Speaker 1:So that's.
Speaker 2:It's actually a big goal of mine to get out for, you know, another cirque series race that isn't just a base in an hour away. Can I ask which a base or cirque series races you've done?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I've done. What have I done? I've done brighton alta grand targi. I think I only did brighton out into the grand targi last year. Yeah, but this year I'll be at, oh, cannon, um, what will I be at?
Speaker 1:cannon killington, oh, nice uh, which is the east coast ones. I'm going to aliaska so I'll be at that one. Alta uh, a basin which I don't know. If I'm gonna race a bit. It all depends on points. If I got the points I need, I probably I I hate high altitude races just because like I, don't live at high altitude.
Speaker 1:So for me, like I have to actually like work, to like go get that high altitude a bunch, so for me it's like I'd rather just, you know, like if something like tops out at 11 000 feet like I'm, I can survive that, like I'm fine. But like, for instance, like a basin is just so high like it kills me, um, and then I'll go to, I think, crystal for the new crystal mountain race. So like that's gonna be the bulk of my season will be all the circ series because sportiva is sponsoring them for this year.
Speaker 2:So they're just gonna have a bunch of their athletes out, which will be super fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I'm honestly looking the most forward, though, to uh. Obviously, alaska aliaska is like a proper mountain race, but I think even more so to the uh east coast races. I think that'll be a little bit fun to like mix it up, you know yeah, and those are all inaugural right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all first year and I think we're just gonna get like I don't know. I'm excited because, like new hampshire and vermont have like a lot of like former olympians and like really fit athletes, uh, just in general, like in that dartmouth area. Plus there's a lot of you know pros that live out there, you know, like remy larue, dan kurtz, um, you know, david sinclair might even show up. Like there's gonna be a lot of like solid competition that I think are going to show up to these races. So to me I'm just excited to like get on a start line and see because, like for me, I've been working on so much like speed work, but I'm like there's.
Speaker 1:There's like I have to like I have to have narrowed the you know kind of like close the gap a little bit over the last year. So we'll see.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm excited for it Should be fun.
Speaker 2:Well, and knowing that you're such a good uphill runner and probably spend a lot of time on the incline, it seems like you are just perfectly prepared for all of those. Oh, I would hope so.
Speaker 1:Like once a week. I've only been on the incline like once a week. Lately. It's only been like on Saturdays. I do my workout on it and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been kind of lame, like I've only been doing like four or 5,000 feet of vert a week, which is like very unlike me. So really, yeah, just speed, flat speed, just trying to get turnover and just get faster, so kind of the big emphasis. So many of these people that raise these races are like, especially on the guy's side, they're like sub 14 minute 5k guys. They're so fast. So that's what I mean by like trying to like I'll never close that gap, but at least like trying to narrow the gap a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know like at least get my 10 K time, like it's a, you know, low thirties or something you know the people who are really fast on roads, coming to trails, like seeing Andy win big Ulta, like I can't say I was surprised after, like what he threw down at his last road race, like run the bridge or something, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a monster. Um, and you know I I got a lot of respect for Andy Cause, like you know, after like parting ways with Solomon this year. Like you know, he's old now, not old, but like for Rubel speaking, he's 30, you know, like late thirties, 36, 37 now. So it's like you know, people kind of maybe sleep on him or like forgot, and it's like, dude, you don't, you don't sleep on somebody like Andy Wacker, Like he's like one of the best still in the sport easily, and then you go see what he did at big Alta and just absolutely dominated. So yeah, it's cool. Are you a big fan of the sport too, or are you like as an athlete in it, Like do you follow a lot of like the races and the other athletes and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I would say, um, this is kind of the first year I've really gotten into that. I think my partner and I are just obsessed now. Like whenever a race is going on, we're checking the live tracking, looking at results. And I've never been a super big sports person in the past, Like for I think I watched like the soccer world cup here and there, but it's been really fun feeling like I'm kind of more into the sport from that side of things and knowing what's going on and kind of knowing names. So still have a lot to learn, but really enjoying just watching the running world play out right now. It's really like a special time in history with kind of what people are doing in this sport.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so much fun too, right Like it's. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I to me. I keep saying like it's the greatest sport on earth just because it's like the accessibility for anybody to like. Get on the start line and you know you can race the pros or you can race. You can race the pros or you can race. You can race wherever you want in the race, you know, and it's all just very approachable, like the spread of sub ultra, which makes it kind of fun yeah, absolutely well, and I would also argue that just sub ultra in general is so much more accessible.
Speaker 2:It kind of takes a lot of resources to run an ultra and like the amount of stress that has been like relieved for me, not trying to do like a 50 mile race this summer is amazing. I'm like I don't need all this time off I need, I don't need to worry about needing a full week of feeling tired and recovery Um, just less expensive. It's easier, to you know, go to a race in one day instead of needing to spend the night, a couple of nights.
Speaker 1:So I really love that aspect of sub ultra running yeah, just and just the ability to recover faster, right, like I mean just to like piggyback off what you said. Like you know, you can stack these out like who was it? I think it was like roberto del renzi, he's a superhuman, but like, anyway, he raced like 27 times last year or something like that. So like some people can, yeah, just stack week on week on week on week. I wouldn't advise that. But like you could do 10 races in a season and still not be like pooped out. Like you can, you know, still kind of comfortably fit something like that, whereas like, yeah, you run 100, like if you go to western states, for example, right, like your season's over after that, more or less yeah, if you raise it to your potential, right like you're going to be smashed.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I don't know. Like to me, the uh, I don't know, I, I it's crazy, I can't quite put my finger on it, just because and I ask a lot of folks this like what is it that like makes ultra so much more popular in the states, whereas, like in in europe it's not necessarily that way. Like sub ultra is kind of more popular in a lot of ways, like it's. Like what is it? And I guess I think it's the comes down to the storytelling, like we don't do a great job of like storytelling with our athletes, whereas like the ultra side, like it makes them a little bit more human and like humanizes them in a lot of ways, whereas like people think of, like people like joe gray and andy wacker is like just these extremely fit, fit steeplechase guys that are like super humans and they don't realize the humanity behind it.
Speaker 2:Right, like it's yeah, absolutely yeah, and I feel like, um, some of those ultra runner names are just bigger when, like they shouldn't be, like um, something my partner has always said is like joe gray is just the most underrated runner in history, like he does not get the clout he deserves for what he is doing and continues to do yeah, no, it's so true, I was.
Speaker 1:I actually had to text him about something the other day because what I want to do is I want to I pitched this out to the world a couple times is do like a film about him for his uh, you know, for his like 900th like national title win, you know, or contention, and like I was trying to like think about it before I sent this text message like how many fucking times has he won like a national title? And like I really couldn't figure it out. Like it's got to be like like 25 or something like that. Yeah, I have to ask him and I don't think he'd be upset if I didn't get the number right. But like still, I just think I'd find it so funny that, like the dude has won everything, more or less, and been like the most dominant, probably the most dominant person to ever enter our sport, and like there, there will probably never be another like I don't. I don't think it will ever happen again, and I just find that so bananas that he doesn't have like 200,000 Instagram followers, right, Exactly.
Speaker 2:And then he's showing up to races like Vail mountain games last year and no, no. That to me is just amazing. Like, even though they put a lot of effort in there's a prize purse, Like it seems like a kind of a small and important place for someone like Joe Gray to be in, yet he's there racing.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, he's a man of the people, he's. If there's, if there's a prize, purse and some competition, the man is showing up. He's gone Exactly, yeah, no, he. It's just like I don't know. It's just a great sport and like. The other thing is like just to see so much dominance from these athletes. You know, over time, like you got your Grayson's of the world too, and like, um, rachel Tom's year to my Tom's yak, I can't answer last.
Speaker 2:I couldn't even try.
Speaker 1:I butcher it every time, just like so many strong ladies as well. Like it's in Lauren Gregory now, who's like really blown up last year. And same with anna gibson. Like, yeah, the ladies side. I think the ladies side of the sub-alter scene has gotten probably more interesting, with more, more athletes popping on you know, definitely. Let me ask you this what kind of what shoes do you like to run in like what's your go-to?
Speaker 2:um, so this is pretty new, but I just bought, um, the 005s, the nordas, and I am obsessed with them. Um, I would like only run in them exclusively, if you know I could afford those shoes consistently, but for now they'll just be my racing shoe. Yeah, I also have a pair of the 002s and I'm just loving those shoes right now. They feel so good. I have a really wide foot and, you know, just for living in Leadville, they have the best traction possible. And, um, you know, just for living in Leadville, they have the best traction possible. Um, but yeah, before that I was mainly like a Hoka speed goat girl. Um, and you know, they were just a trainer that kept me happy and healthy. Um, but I'm also kind of ready to move on. I'll probably always have like one pair of speed goats in the back of the closet, but I'm really enjoying the Nordas right now. And then I've also really loved racing in the Nike ultra flies.
Speaker 1:Those are and I've been doing a lot of workouts in those as well. It's a great shoe as well. What do you? Let's talk 005. So I got to see that shoe before any person had ever seen it. So like I saw that shoe, so I'm friends with Jason and Jason had it. He literally got it in the mail from China the day before, two days before Hard Rock, because I happened to do a photo shoot with them, so I got to try that shoe on before any person ever laid eyes on it.
Speaker 2:And I was immediately blown away.
Speaker 1:I was like God damn, this is an amazing show. I don't know if they made any changes to it after the fact because this was like July, so I would imagine it was still a pre-production model. But I remember texting a couple of friends and I was like yo, you don't even know what's coming from Norda. This is a shoe and it's apparently pretty durable too. It should last a very long time, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it, just yeah. From what I've read and seen, it seems like you can get at least a few extra hundred miles out of them, and for me that difference makes it worth the price point as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think it's like for something like that to justify the price. So, for instance, I'm a sportiva guy and I love the Prodigio Pros. It's the best shoe, in my opinion, that's hit the market, besides the 005. I just personally, I'm still in my first pair and I've had them for like maybe four or five hundred miles already and I haven't worn them down. But I'm curious, like what is it going to be like when these things like actually break down? Like am I going to feel a difference in the pop, you know? Like are they going to start to tear? And like what I'm trying to get is like the shoe technology in the last few years has just gotten crazy.
Speaker 2:it's pretty wild yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty amazing. I've kind of become a shoe geek in recent years and I'm not sad about it yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:What kind of gear do you like? Like, what kind of gear do you run? And I see you have a. Is that a normal top on?
Speaker 2:I do. Yeah, we're in the normal top. Um, yeah, I let me see. I I wouldn't say I have like a specific brand that I go to. I mean, I have like a Solomon vest that I will never get rid of. I accidentally like bleached the back of it while trying to get the white side cleaner and so it looks all goofy now, but it's just my favorite vest on this planet. I don't remember the name of it. It's the one where it's white on one side and black on the other. Um, and then, yeah, other than that, I really like John G um for their shorts, socks, um, I don't have any of their tops, but I would say those are like my go-to brands. Um, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:I don't put like too much money or time into like running clothes. I kind of just work with what I got. Um, probably like half of my running closet is from like Sierras, tj Maxx, just cheaper stuff that is comfortable for me. But yeah, oh, and I guess one last thing I'm excited about is I got a racing suit from On and it's actually like their track racing suit, so it's just ultra light and yeah, I'm really loving that one. I've always had like stomach issues when my clothes are too tight in that area, so just finding brands that kind of work with like my physiology has been really helpful for racing.
Speaker 1:Nice. Are you more a vest person or a belt person, for like these races, oh I'm 100% vest.
Speaker 2:I've tried to wear belts but I just cannot have any pressure on, like my midsection. It ends up hurting my tummy Like. I have a few race pictures where I think I'm literally like stretching my shirt or my vest outwards to try to like take some of that pressure off and run a little faster. So yeah, I'm vest all the way.
Speaker 1:Interesting. That's really you're. You're some of the few you know. I don't have too many people tell me that usually people are belt people Like I'm, like a diehard belt person, like more than than more than the vest, just because I feel like the vest for me, like I don't like anything that constricts, like my breathing.
Speaker 2:You know like I don't know everybody's different.
Speaker 1:It's kind of cool. I got a competition question for you. What, um, what's your relationship like with competition? Are you like extremely competitive person, like on a scale of one to taylor stack like, where do you, where do you fall on that?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I would really say it depends on the day, but, um, I'm probably at like a seven or an eight Um I. That's part of why I'm really excited to do some more competitive races, just because, like, when there's a girl on my tail, I don't think I can push myself harder than in that moment. Um, or if I'm trying to catch someone in front of me, I, yeah, I just really love being around other like females specifically um, because it just pushes me to to go faster. I think, um, I think that is the competitive edge where I don't really want to like let someone go.
Speaker 2:But I have this other problem where I don't get competitive with the guys, like if say that I'm like leading a race, um, on the women's side, like really I should be trying to chase guys and maybe get to like a, a, a higher um point, but I'll just be like, oh, whatever, he's running his own race. So I'd say that's kind of where I'm at. Um, so I'd say that's kind of where I'm at. I think I in some ways was even more competitive before I really got into training. But now that I'm training pretty consistently, I also try to just have trust in my race, especially early on. And yeah, I run my own race and not let someone else make me push myself to a point where I might end up failing it's a good answer.
Speaker 1:No, I, I like that. What it's interesting too? Because, like a lot, especially with sub ultra, it's a weird thing where it's like you almost like have to and I've said this kind of before you got to assert yourself into the race because, like, if you don't, the race is going to pass you by. So it's like you have to find this mix of like just towing that line, of like not destroying yourself, but also, like trying to find a rhythm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's it's kind right. Exactly, I'd say, for the sub ultra distance. My, I try not to be competitive until like at least halfway to two thirds through, and then, once I'm there, it's like okay, it's go time. Like you know, got to leave it all on the trail. So yeah, or would you call yourself a competitive person?
Speaker 1:Oh, psycho on a level of one stack, four stack. I won't even let my wife and I could be on a nice leisurely family hike with the dogs and chilling and I'll lose my mind because I cannot let someone even hike past us. I'm like we got to hurry up. Yeah, I don't know the way my brain thinks. It's always kind of a competition, which is probably not good. But yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know. It's like a with, even with podcasts, with everything in life. Um, yeah, and it was just weird, cause I had a normal childhood, like I think about this all the time and I asked my mom, like where did things go South for me? Like what happened? You know, I have no idea.
Speaker 2:It's just in our blood or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I guess it's just like I don't know, like my dad is very competitive and like I guess maybe my, my mom is too and maybe that just comes through. Like I don't know, like I wouldn't say my dad's like on a like a level of like one to psycho, like I don't I wouldn't say he's crazy, but like I see where I get it from, like that part doesn't make a little bit of sense. But yeah, I don't know no-transcript.
Speaker 2:I'll see you later.
Speaker 1:That's actually a good question. So, like, how many times are you in a race? Cause I feel like this happens to me a lot where I'll be in a race and I'm like I'm dropping out at the end of this climb, like I'm hurting so bad and like everything just sucks, like I'm, I'm done, I'm taking the gondola down Like my day is over.
Speaker 1:And then you get to the top and you're like, nah, I'm just going to keep going, like I. I, bailey Kowalczyk, said this in a podcast the other day and it like really stuck. Yeah, oh, I definitely relate to that.
Speaker 2:I think every one of my good races I've told myself like I'm not going to finish this, this is, this is not happening. But I don't know if you just kind of deal with that mental stress until you feel good enough to not remember it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what it is. Yeah, you just get to the top. You're like all right, I'm just going to keep going, Like let's just see what happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The pain of the first climb, I don't know. It's like hits everybody in a funny way. So yeah it's interesting, all right, so let's start winding down now about inspiration. I'm curious to see who inspires you.
Speaker 2:Let's see. I'd say my biggest inspirations are just from runners. Do you know Stephanie Case? I do, yeah, yeah. So I know she's not really a sub-ultra runner, in fact quite the opposite but I don't really have a sub-ultra runner who kind of inspires me in this way, and it's just about her activism and the way that she's used running to do so much more and, you know, support Afghan women and just women in areas that don't have access to running. And I know, I think I have a belief that if you have a platform, that you should be doing something good with it, and she really just embodies that. So, yeah, 100% like Stephanie Case.
Speaker 2:You know Dakota Jones as well, for the same reason, um, but on the other side of things, I am also like, so inspired by people like Grayson Murphy, where you know she's not showing up to a national championship, or like a USA team qualifier, like hoping to get on the USA team, like she knows that she's making it on the USA team so that she can go compete for America. And I think it's just really beautiful when athletes are so, so good that you know there's just no doubt about it, and I can't even imagine the hard work she's put in to get to where she is, um. So I'm just inspired by that. What she's able to do, um I've gotten to. I think Sunupi was the only race I did with her. But seeing her sprint away while me and hundreds of other girls are just struggling and trailing behind her, it's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:She's a monster dude.
Speaker 1:And one thing I can really say I respect about her is I know now she's very, very candid about like an auto immune disease that she's like working through and like she's very open about it, you know, and it's like life is not easy, like things are definitely difficult, you know, and I mean, if she happens to make the team this year and goes to worlds and who knows, she probably has an ability to even go win it.
Speaker 1:The damn thing that like it'll just put, like just I probably put her as probably the best female mountain runner of all time in my opinion, which is kind of wild to think, like after three or four, this would be her fourth or third, I can't remember which one, but yeah, she's already, I think, a two time national title or world champion now, which is crazy yeah, it's insane, you know, and just yeah, I feel like she's pretty much at that joe gray level where you know she's just amazing yeah, it is crazy and especially with the way the sport's going and how competitive it is, it's only going to get harder, like to to do those things like back to back to back and you know, like do what joe did.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, like I said, we might never see people like this again, which is kind of a shame, but that's the way the sport goes are you? Are you a morning or are you a? Uh, a music person?
Speaker 2:I am, yeah. So I'm a musician, I play guitar and like a singer and songwriter. So, um, last summer I invested um into a really nice sound system, so now I'm able to, um, just perform at local venues, don't need to have a sound guy and deal with all of that. So, yeah, I'm, I'm really excited to kind of dive into that more. Um, I probably could have put a bit more effort into getting some gigs throughout the winter, but, um, there's a lot of opportunities in the summer and Leadville, just at local bars. We have like a little like outdoor food truck space called the Aliac, so I love performing there. Yeah, it's, I'd say it's something that kind of fuels my running. In some ways. It's a really nice rest day activity, and other than running and playing music, I'm pretty darn lazy.
Speaker 1:So, yeah exactly Got to recover right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's probably like the one thing that gets me off the couch after a long run. Yeah, I just I really enjoy it. It's also just an outlet for like I like songwriting, kind of as an alternative to like journaling or something like that. Just turn my thoughts into more of a poetic form. What kind of music do you play? Almost 100% like folk music, I would say. Turn my thoughts into more of a poetic form. What kind of music do you play um almost 100 like folk music, I would say. I do like to do some like pop covers and make them more folk um, and I also do play quite a bit of country as well nice, nice, very nice.
Speaker 1:I could respect that super cool, all right, well, like. So I'm just so curious about like genre. Then, like before a race, if you're listening to something hardcore like, or like what's good, what's getting you pumped before a race, I've had so many people tell me it's like soft music. But like what do you? What are you listening to?
Speaker 2:oh, I am fully the opposite. Um, my probably go-to race song, I think I like got my centipede result by repeating this song in my head. It's called little girl gone by chinchilla and it's just like very intense, that's all I'll say. Um, I love that one. Um, then I've also been listening to, um, a song called pickle rick by echo, and it's just like a fun kind of have you heard of it?
Speaker 1:I? Do you ever watch rick and morty?
Speaker 2:yeah, I have all right, so that's where pickle rick came from.
Speaker 1:That's that actually really funny. I've only heard of Pickle Rick through that. That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:It's just the song name. It's actually Macklemore who does the singing, but it's a different band who's involved. I guess one thing about music for me is I have to race with music unless a race specifically says, no, don't wear headphones. I'll almost always have one in, and that's probably part of why I like wearing a vest as well, cause I need to bring my phone for that. But I don't know, the right song just really gets me going.
Speaker 1:I love to hear that. So you're like I. So I have done this a few times. Actually, in like one circuit race last year I did pop in just like one earphone, just like for me it was dialing out like just the noise at the beginning of the race and like just trying to focus because, like my anxiety is like sky high I wouldn't even say anxiety, it's just like nerves, which is probably the same thing. But like, just like at a start line before you go, like when I play it back in my head, like I don't hear anything, but like when I remember it, it's like man, like it is, it's very loud, it's like a lot going on, it's very intense and you could like dump a lot of adrenaline or cortisol, I guess, at that one point, whereas, like I feel like I've had music and it's just like kind of chilled me out a little bit, like made me just a little more relaxed, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of keeps you in that like race mode and frame. I definitely relate to like that anxiety and I think, yeah, without music, I'm just standing on the start line uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny too. Like I will occasionally put music in for like uphill workouts, like especially on the incline, where, like, I hate hearing me myself breathing really hard, like I don't like that. Like where I'm like I don't know, almost like kind of like it is kind of like a performance enhancer in one way or another, where you can't hear yourself breathing and it's hard. It's like better to kind of like you could maybe put the throttle down a little bit more, because you can't hear like what's going on with your body. Yeah, it's starting to break down, I don't know. Like that's.
Speaker 1:I do it a lot. Like usually on my Saturday workouts, I almost always have music in which is probably not good, but whatever, can I ask what your go-to song is or genre? Oh, I listen to a lot of EDM, like, if I'm running, I like, so I uh it gets said yeah instead of um, like uh, spotify or anything. I have SoundCloud and what I do is like I find these like Avicii DJ sets from like 2013 that are like two hours long, so it'll fuel an entire workout and it's like just Avicii, just like tearing it up like a live concert and it's so good Cause like you can't even hear the people screaming, it's more so, just like the recording of the actual DJ set and it's like one thing after another, after another after another, and like he'll hit like a bunch of like little ups and a lot of downs and like the you can just get like your heart rate and rhythm into that like it's. It actually works really well for me. So, yeah, 10 out of 10.
Speaker 2:Recommend anybody I'll have to check that out because avicii is one of my favorites. I yeah party music all the way when I'm running I love avicii, rip love avicii.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you?
Speaker 1:know sunset, jesus, that's like one of my favorites okay and I just started getting into like more dubsteppy stuff, like there's this guy, ace aura, who's like an austin texas like underground dj and he's really good, and so he's got some like some sets from like land of the lost and a couple other like uh, like live sets that he'll put out, and those are good too. Some of them are a little too intense where I'm like, oh wow, I'm probably not gonna be able to hear by the time I get to 50. I still listen to this like super high, so I'm going to dial it back a little bit, but yeah, I don't know, it's great for running.
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're almost at the end. I want to get into the like the Bigfoot question, Cause I got asked. I usually ask this to everybody Do you, do you believe in Bigfoot?
Speaker 2:Do I believe in Bigfoot? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. I yeah, I can't say I have thought about it too much, but I don't know. It's kind of the same answer as like aliens for me, um, like there's just no way he's not out there. You know what I mean and I know that there's probably people who dress up and, uh, you know, are tricking someone and make a youtube video trying to make it look like Bigfoot. But I also think that within those videos, there's also some real ones in there and that, like I don't know, just reading like Reddit stories about people who have encountered Bigfoot, I fully believe it.
Speaker 1:If you saw Bigfoot, would you tell anyone?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, I think I would. I have a big mouth, so probably probably run around but maybe look like a crazy person. Actually, we um, and here in Leadville we have like the mineral belt, which is just like 12 mile, um paved little road around um Lake County and there's like two big foot like not like statues, they're like cardboard wood cutouts, like two big foot like, not like statues, they're like cardboard wood cutouts.
Speaker 2:So actually before I knew that those were there, one time I like ran up and I saw this silhouette and I think it was dusk or something and I just straight up turned around. I thought it was real. So maybe I wouldn't tell anyone because I think I just turned right around and was like I hope that's not what I think it is.
Speaker 1:That's funny. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of like wonder if, like, I did see like something weird in the woods, like if I would tell anyone I don't know like a Bigfoot or something, I don't know. I feel like we're in the age now of like with phones and stuff like that. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I've heard so much crazy shit that like I I almost like believe everything now, like I'm like way more gullible than I probably was like five years ago. I relate to that. Yeah, I actually I spend a little bit too much time thinking about like skinwalkers um, okay, just because, like a lot of my students in this area I don't know they're all really into it and they all have these little stories and anecdotes about you know some someone calling their name and it, you know, just creepy skinwalker type stuff. So I believe in that.
Speaker 1:You know what dude my young cousins like brought that up too and it's like maybe it's like a Gen Z thing, I don't know Like maybe it's like on TikTok or something.
Speaker 2:It must be, could be, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I don't know. My cousins talk about that all the time and they're young and I'm like, are you watching, like history channel? Like what are you getting this from? So who knows, that could be it.
Speaker 2:I have no idea. It's like an urban legend that somehow has conspired through technology and younger generations.
Speaker 1:Could be. Well, listen, allie, we're almost at time. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I can't wait to do round two, Wishing you the very best of luck, especially next week at Desert Rats and throughout the rest of your season. I can't wait to hear how Mammoth goes. So we'll have to do a round two at the end of the summer.
Speaker 2:We'll bring you out for your time and having me on, I yeah, absolutely love your podcast and I just feel honored to be on a podcast when you have such big names and amazing athletes on all the time. I mean you just interviewed like Bailey and like Joe Henn, right.
Speaker 1:You're part of the group too, man. Like it's, I love getting in. Like you know there's. It's like a beautiful dichotomy and like a mix of like yes, we have like professional athletes, but also like athletes that are like in the process of making their own name in their sport, and like you're one of them. So you know, I can't wait to see what you're going to accomplish over the next few years, and you know it'll be fun to follow along.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, James. I appreciate that and I'm looking forward to follow your racing and stuff and everything you do at Cirque series this year and with Las Fortiva.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. Yeah, we'll be in touch. We'll be in touch. Have a great rest of your day, you have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank Allie so much for coming on the podcast. You guys, hop on Instagram, give her a follow. You can find her on Instagram at Allie underscore at underscore altitude Makes sense because she lives at 10,000 feet in Leadville, colorado. And, yeah, give her a follow, send her a DM. I'm sure she'd love to hear from you all. And, yeah, let her know what you guys thought about the episode. And, yeah, she's an absolute rock star and I'm just so excited for what she's going to do with the rest of her 2025 season and she's just getting started. So pretty fun.
Speaker 1:Um, guys, before you get going, if you wouldn't mind, please give us a five-star rating and review on uh, apple, spotify or YouTube or wherever you consume your podcast. That would mean the world to me and that's how we can continue telling, um, you know, just these great stories of all these amazing athletes in the sport and, uh, continue to keep building the sport as we go. Um, yeah, uh, I've got some fun stuff coming up this week for you guys. It's going to be super fun. We're going to be dropping interviews with the I think it's the eight, I don't know, I can't remember, I can't count.
Speaker 1:It's Monday, we don't do public math on the steep stuff podcast, but the number of individuals that just made the trail team elite, which is going to be super fun, so we're going to be dropping interviews while them. That includes Oakley Olson, shay Aquilano, who literally just won a gorge waterfall, 100 K this past weekend, hawk call uh, and so many others. It's pretty bad-ass. So, guys, have a great rest of your week, keep a lookout for those episodes and, yeah, talk to you soon. Thank you.
