The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#93 - Shea Aquilano - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection
Shay Aquilano's remarkable transformation from college soccer player to elite ultrarunner showcases what's possible when passion meets purpose in the mountains. Having recently captured the Gorge Waterfalls 100K championship and secured a coveted Western States lottery spot, Shay joins the Steep Stuff Podcast to walk us through her unique journey into the ultrarunning world.
Unlike many elite trail runners, Shay didn't come from a competitive running background. She discovered running during COVID lockdowns while studying neuroscience at Notre Dame, initially hitting trails with her parents at local parks in Indiana. What began as a pandemic coping mechanism evolved into a profound connection with ultrarunning, which she beautifully describes as "life distilled" - a raw experience where you encounter all the highs, lows, doubt, and joy played out over miles of trail.
The conversation takes us through Shay's pivotal decision to relocate from flat Indiana to mountainous Boulder - a move she calls her "best decision of 2023." Now training alongside fellow elites while maintaining her unique approach, Shay has been selected as one of two ultra specialists on the prestigious Trail Team Elite. This recognition provides crucial infrastructure and mentorship that was missing during her early development in the Midwest.
Shay shares fascinating insights into her training philosophy, nutrition strategy (working with dietician Kylie Van Horn), and mental approach to ultrarunning. Rather than fixating on heart rate zones or rigid fueling protocols, she prioritizes perceived exertion and has found her personal sweet spot around 60-70 grams of carbohydrates per hour during races. Her pre-race music choice? "Stacy's Mom," because as she puts it, "you can't have the ultra sads" while listening to that song.
What stands out most is Shay's refreshingly grounded perspective despite her rapid rise in the sport. While discussing her upcoming Western States 100 debut, she emphasizes longevity over immediate results: "I want to be a long-term athlete and a sustainable runner... I want to still be doing this when I'm 80 years old." Join us for this inspiring conversation with one of ultrarunning's brightest rising stars, and discover why the ultra trail community is, in her words, "humanity at its greatest."
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Lauriello, and today I'm so excited to welcome Ms Shay Aquilano to the podcast. I'm really excited to finally have a conversation with Shay. You guys might know that name because she just became the champion about a week and a half ago, of the Gorge Waterfalls 100K race in Cascade Locks, Oregon, and punched her ticket back to the World Mountain Running Championship for the long trail.
Speaker 1:Aside from that, Shea was actually a selection for the 2025 trail team elite team. One of two athletes selected in the ultra capacity, which is cool. So now we kind of got the division between sub ultra and ultra on the trail team, which is pretty neat. Yeah, Shea is an absolute world beater. She's going to be going to Western States this year. Got in on a lottery spot uh, might actually be. I mean, she's my pick to be the first women to win the race since Kat Bradley. Um, off of a lottery spot, which would be pretty cool. Um, she also had a great finish as black at black cannon as well. Talk about all of these things in the episode. It's a great one. Um, I can't wait to actually have Shay back on. This was kind of a brief episode, so I'm excited to have her on in the long form and review in the coming months, especially for her Western States build. So congrats to her, Really excited to see her going back to Worlds. And yeah, guys, have a great one. Hope you enjoy this one. It's time. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Listen up, guys.
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Speaker 1:Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod again. Again, that's steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom. Get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think. Shay Aquilano, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:How's your day going?
Speaker 2:No, I'm going pretty well. Nothing too crazy happening.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. I know it's crazy, you're in Boulder, right.
Speaker 2:I am yeah, yeah, front range.
Speaker 1:I'm down in Colorado Springs and the weather was so nice last week and now it's starting to turn again. It's like no spring is so like kind of hit and miss here. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is actually, yeah, my first winter and spring living in Boulder, because I moved here end of July last year.
Speaker 1:Where'd you move from?
Speaker 2:Indiana.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh Flatland.
Speaker 2:Yes, very different?
Speaker 1:Are you originally from Indiana?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I grew up there, went to school at Notre Dame.
Speaker 1:So born and raised, Wow, oh my gosh, notre Dame. So I can't make any Michigan jokes then, because I'm a Michigan fan.
Speaker 2:Oh no, can't hate on Notre Dame, it's fine.
Speaker 1:Now, notre Dame is a cool school, though. What was it like going there? Tell me about that experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I had a great time I studied neuroscience and behavior, but that area it's kind of just like Notre Dame it's in its own little bubble in South Bend, indiana, and there's not a whole lot outside of that, so to speak. Definitely not a lot of trails, a lot of flat road.
Speaker 1:Did you run for them specifically?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't no Okay.
Speaker 1:I couldn't find it. I did a little bit of research for this one. I just wanted to make sure I didn't. So what was that like then? How did you get into the running scene then? How did that come about for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I actually didn't start running until after my last soccer season in high school and then kind of just picked it up for fun. That was right around when COVID hit. So we were sent home my freshman year of school and, yeah, I was just at home trying to find stuff to do and was running more to stay sane insane.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, fair enough, uh, so you just started running. All right, let's backtrack this a little bit, because this is such an interesting thing for me, because I I meet a lot of people that, like most of the people in our sport like come from like a track and field background, but I'd say, like soccer might be like the second like that's where that's the world I come from is like the soccer, kind of the soccer realm. Where did like trails come from? Like how did? Is this some interest? Or like, where did like kind of you saw some like, did you find it on youtube, instagram, like, like, because you've kind of like evolved into this like really well-known trail runner now and it's like become like kind of a pseudo career.
Speaker 2:So like, tell me about that um, so yeah, I'm not really not entirely sure if it was any one thing that brought me to trails. I know I started running a little bit with my parents after soccer ended, just for fun, and we would go to a local park and do some trail running there. And yeah, there's just something different about the trails compared to road and like it brings a different energy, and the people who do it approach it in a slightly different way, and I think that's what kind of got me intrigued in the first place nice.
Speaker 1:What was the first race that you did? You signed up for it, that you like hopped into.
Speaker 2:You're like I'm hooked yeah, well, the first one I did was actually a virtual 50k um, because it was during covid um, I don't even think like that kind of thing is on ultra sign up. But if I were to go back to like my first official ultra, it would be the eight hour dream endurance race in indianapolis nice and just like you got hooked from it.
Speaker 1:Or like what you was like immediately I gotta go do more of these. Or like what was the takeaway from it? Like tell me about that experience. Like you just like picked a random place to go run a 50k or I what you was like immediately I gotta go do more of these. Or like what was the takeaway from it? Like, tell me about that experience.
Speaker 2:Like you just like picked a random place to go run a 50k or I mean, it was like local, it was easy to access, like it was something I'd heard about happening in past years. So I'm like, yeah, like I'll, I'll try it um, but like why ultras um, is that kind of the question?
Speaker 1:which is why, like, I guess, like just getting like what about it was inspiring and like got you hooked, like more or less yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say it's one of those things that's hard to describe unless, like, the person themselves has also experienced it, because it's more than just about covering the distance. It truly feels like it's like life distilled, and that was really intriguing to me. Like you get to experience these highs, these lows, doubt, joy, um, just like played out over miles and miles and yeah, so like it's hard to explain to anyone why you would willingly want to do those things and like push yourself to the edge and like go further. But, um, yeah, for people that have done it like, the answer is is simple like it's, it's real, um, it's the closest thing to, like the purest and rawest form of life and humanity you can get to, and I think that's pretty cool. Like betrayal community is where it's at all.
Speaker 1:Right, that was a good answer. I got it out of you. All right, I like it, I like it. So you just relocated to Boulder, more or less like how, how has that transition been for you? Like moving from Indiana to try, and you know, boulder's a really interesting place. There's a lot of professional athletes. It can be overwhelming at times for people. I feel like like what, what does that like for you? It?
Speaker 2:can be overwhelming at times for people. I feel like like what, what does that like for you? Um, so yeah, it was actually probably my best decision of 2024. Um, I moved here kind of without a plan, without a job, um, just kind of see where it would go. I did have connections with the trail team here in Boulder, so I think in that regard it was an easy transition, so to speak. I mean, definitely very different than Indiana and many different ways. Um, but yeah, it's, it's been great. I've learned a lot and, yeah, really found my footing here.
Speaker 1:Is it like easy to find, like, do you train with a group of people or are you more of like a solo trainer? Like how does that work for you?
Speaker 2:Um, definitely a mix. I do enjoy running alone, but I also like mixing it up with running with people and I think, like I do run with the trail team here in Boulder, there's a big group of athletes around my age, but also part of the greater community as well. That just everyone is so nice and, yeah, so friendly, so it's been great yeah, no, it's super cool.
Speaker 1:It's just like a um, I don't know, just like the community I feel like just is so inspiring and just gets you. Gets you out the door, even if you don't want to get out the door. It's like a there's always something to do, always people to hang with.
Speaker 2:It's it's a fun place yeah, there was always something going on or someone to run with.
Speaker 1:Do you find and I asked this to everybody that's from Boulder, I literally just asked Bailey Kowalski this other day Do you find it any pressure to have to? The reason I ask this is because Boulder is such a pressure cooker of it. There's athletes everywhere. So do you find pressure to have to go be doing stuff, like even if maybe you're injured or if you're having downtime in your block, like, or do you, are you able to just turn that off and just kind of just do your thing?
Speaker 2:Um, I w I don't really feel the pressure. Um, I know there's a lot of like people doing crazy things, but at some point you just have to stay in your own lane and like run true to you and so like, for me, maybe that's I'm not playing it cool all the time, being a little chaotic, but yeah, just doing things how I'm doing them and yeah, it's fun. It's running is fun, so it shouldn't be anything more than that.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a beautiful approach. I I, yeah, I always ask because it's just interesting to hear how people think about it, just because, like I don't know, like I'm not a big Strava person, just because I always feel like there's you know, sometimes you get FOMO, it's like, oh my gosh, I should be doing this and it's like you know. Meanwhile you just have to stay focused on what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Um so for you, you're an interesting like selection. Like you, you got. You made it on the trail team elite this year, which was amazing. But like usually, trail team is a little more sub ultra focus. You're more of a little bit of an ultra focus. So I like that. I like that Andy's expanding the team Congratulations, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's that? What does that mean to you, like? How exciting is this of an opportunity for you?
Speaker 2:I mean it's. It's amazing. Yeah, coming from and growing up in Indiana, there's very few trails. I mean there is a small trail community there, but growing up there I always felt a little bit disconnected from the greater trail community, especially with a lot of it centered more on stuff happening out West and so I don't know. I feel like I ran into a lot of the same obstacles that maybe people around my age coming from track and cross country did, like right now there's not a lot of infrastructure to help support younger athletes trying to make it in the sport and like even especially for me, like I had no running background whatsoever, um coming into college. So I think that just emphasized the need for support and how to navigate the sponsorship world who to know who to talk to and what working in the industry could potentially look like and how to just navigate all of that. So, yeah, it's been super cool.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I think it's a great answer too. One of the things for me, I don't know, I just feel like that stuck out. Probably I'd say maybe you and Hawk, I think, are the two like selections for the team that, like I, like I knew names of already, like from the selections, like you're already, I would say, like very advanced and like very just, like you have a lot of experience in the trail space, let's put it that way. So, like what is? So I guess you could tell me like what does that look like for you? Are you more so now trying to bridge that gap of looking for sponsors, um, over the next like 12 months and stuff like that? Like cause you've had quite a few, you know fantastic finishes and I feel like you're, you're kind of like in that space now.
Speaker 2:So I mean. I mean, yes, it would definitely be great to have um extra support. It would definitely make my life, like financially easier and ability to travel and get to the races I want to race, um. So in that regard, yes, but also I feel like I'm a very values driven runner. So like, first and foremost, I need to keep my why behind, why I run. So like when I first started, I the feeling that I wanted to raise was keeping the magic, the awe, the joy and the wonder at the forefront, and I just want to maintain that. So, yeah, it would be a very intentional partnership if I ever were to find one, but right now it's being sponsored.
Speaker 1:I like that. Which shoes do you like to run in? What's your jam right now?
Speaker 2:Right now I've been running in the North Face and then also recently the prodigio pro.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm glad I feel like that's the the shoe everybody's picking now these days, I like yeah, heck yeah yeah, well, sportiva is right down the street from you, so it is a little segue. We need more ultra ladies on the team. That'd be awesome. Um, yeah, so what's? What's the 2025 schedule looking like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so actually coming up April 12th I'll be running Gorge Waterfalls 100K, so pretty excited about that. And then come June, western States 100 miler Wait, did you?
Speaker 1:draw. You drew in the lottery, that's right.
Speaker 2:I forgot all about that.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about that, we'll get to that, because I just think that's. That's a fun conversation. Let's talk Gorge first. I do want to get into that, like obviously that's a selection race, um, really stout, going to be a lot of strong ladies there. I think it's like an amazing opportunity for someone like you um, you know to really catapult yourself in the sport. Like is the goal to try and get on the long trail team get yourself spot.
Speaker 2:You know, I would definitely accept a spot if I were offered one or I got top two, but I think, um, mostly it'll be just getting more practice at racing when the depth is deep. So putting myself in the fight and just seeing what happens, and, yeah, I'm really, really excited about it. I haven't ever been to Oregon, so this will be good.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're in for a treat. That course is beautiful. Like I, my wife ran the 50K a few years ago and we went out there for it was like the first year I think Dylan took over the race and like that course is so nice, it's like sneaky technical, it's like rainy and just like dreary, it's typical pacific northwest and just like I don't know. I find that stuff would be like utterly beautiful and it's like got just enough climbing and but it's all runnable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good stuff I'm glad to hear that sounds great. You're gonna like it.
Speaker 1:The 100k is a long. Obviously it's a long way, not for someone like you who runs these long distances, but I don't know, to me it's a long course. Yeah, you're in for a serious treat and it like ends like near an ice cream stand, which is kind of dope, like in cascade locks. Yeah, it's pretty dope.
Speaker 2:Right on yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a cool race. All right, let's. Let's pivot to Western States a little bit Cause. So you drew in the lottery, like how many years had you been putting your name in the hat to try and get in?
Speaker 2:How did that work? I had eight tickets, so I guess three, four years, four years. It was my fourth year, yeah, and I got it.
Speaker 1:That's not too bad. That's pretty solid. Wow, all right. So what are you looking for the most about Western States? Because that's a big dance right there.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I haven't even like I've thought about it, but I got to get through Gorge first. Um, yeah, I'm just super soaked on it because that's definitely been a dream bucket list race for me, so just excited to be able to take part in it, for sure.
Speaker 1:What is uh training been like for you so far? Just getting ready for Gorge and as well as, I guess, like Western States on the back end of that. Just what eight weeks later? Or something like that. Like what, um, yeah, what is what? Has the blocks been looking like a lot of speed? Like what have you been working on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean heading into um, black Canyon and then also earlier in this block was doing some VO2 work and tempo work, um, and then transitioned into more like endurance, effort, length of stuff, um, and also, yeah, since Western is my eight race, just playing around with some things that I think could work in the training block leading up to Western States, like my coach and I have been implementing a heat training block leading up to gorge, while gorge necessarily not necessarily will be warm, but Western will so. Like just seeing how my body responds to that super cool.
Speaker 1:Who do you work with as a coach?
Speaker 2:uh ryan anderson okay, very cool.
Speaker 1:What is um? Do you think boulders? I mean, I just feel like boulders so conducive for getting ready for like a race for western states, like just endless amounts of like dirt roads and yes technique like some, some techie descends some good things in there. Um yeah, what do you been, what's your been your go-to? Like you hit gold hill, like everybody else, like what's what's the deal there?
Speaker 2:gold hills road. Basically yeah, um no, I mean honestly like I've been doing stuff all over right now like mostly the lower trails are what's clear and dry right now. So I've been doing a lot of that stuff. But honestly, like just happy to be able to run on trails Indiana not a lot of trails, so just yeah, it's been game changing to transition most of my runs to get on trails this year.
Speaker 1:You got lucky. Your first winter here was pretty warm. I'm not going to lie on the front range. It gets way worse.
Speaker 2:That's what people were telling me. I'm like this isn't bad. Indiana winters are so much worse.
Speaker 1:I spent a summer in Michigan and like oh my God, I didn't see the sun for like eight weeks. It was terrible yeah, Michigan and like, oh my God, like I didn't see the sun for like eight weeks. It was terrible. Yeah, I don't know how people deal with that. It's absolutely brutal.
Speaker 2:You get used to it, I guess yeah.
Speaker 1:A lot of vitamin D got to continue. Just take a lot of vitamin D, yeah, so I don't know. I feel like Boulder is such a good place for you like to train and get ready for a race like that.
Speaker 2:Are you? Have you linked up with anyone else that's in western states, that's in the boulder area, that's getting ready as well, or no?
Speaker 1:um, so I've done a couple runs with riley so far, but yes, that's an amazing person to run with oh my god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, need to reach out to other people to get more training partners super cool, super cool.
Speaker 1:So what, uh, what would be? Obviously I feel like your front end of your uh, I guess like racing calendar is pretty stacked, but like what would be? Obviously I feel like your front end of your uh, I guess like racing calendar is pretty stacked, but like what would be the plans for summer, just enjoying the summer, or after western states, because that's pretty brutal so I mean after western tbd, right now I'm signed up for ccc.
Speaker 2:um, unless worlds would, potentially, then I would do that instead. Okay, and then after that, thinking about JFK, 50 mile, but still haven't committed to anything yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so far out. Oh my God, yeah, ccc would be cool. Have you ever ventured out to Chamonix or like that area?
Speaker 2:Never, so this would that would be a really cool experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like every person that I know that has gone out there for either to like race out there or just spend time, it completely changes the way they view the sport. Like it's like so professionalized being out there and then they come back to America where it's like still kind of like there's still a grassroots vibe here, so like everybody comes back with like kind of a different view on the sport, which is so I'm curious to see how you grow and how that works for you. It's pretty cool thank you yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So ccc, what do you think about that course? Like what's inspiring, like why would you choose that over? Like utmb is just the way that like fits in your schedule, or like uh, stones that you had, or it was just the one I could get into.
Speaker 2:okay, based on my utMB index score, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Super cool.
Speaker 2:Simple answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no easy enough. All right, so we can pivot back to the trail team. I'm just excited for you to hear, like has Andy talked to you guys about, like, who the mentors are going to be for this year? Like, how does that work? Are you excited for any of the camps that you guys do?
Speaker 2:Like, what's the what's the schedule for you guys? You guys, yeah, well, the camp schedule is is pretty cool. Um, let's see, I don't have it pulled up, but we're there's a grand lake camp in june, which would be great. Um, definitely, I think there's one in whistler, british columbia. Um, and then potentially one in germany leading up to UTMB between worlds and UTMB.
Speaker 1:Very cool, All right, so that's good stuff. Has he? Has he said anything about who the um, like the? I guess he has picks like mentors every year for like people to mentor you guys? Do you guys know who he's going to be for this year? Yet Not yet. Not yet, so still surprised. Did you get a chance to last year? I think it was at the Grand Lake one. Did you link up with them and go to the one at the Grand Lake?
Speaker 2:I know there was a bunch of folks moved to Colorado. So I think I kind of kind of knew that that like, yeah, I was going to move and Andy and Carly were really helpful in getting me out here. So transition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, super cool. What was the um? Talk to me about the experience, or just getting to hang with everybody and like doing like a traditional camp and like hanging with the team, like what was? What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2:right out of college, maybe still in college and all kind of at a similar point in their life where they're trying to transition and get into trail running and like figure out what to do. And yeah, like the saying goes, a rising tide lifts all boats. And that's pretty much what the whole week in Grand Lake felt like, like we were all sleeping together in, like Giant. And felt like like we were all sleeping together and like giant and like an Airbnb um, packed in, it was great, eating together, just like hanging out. Yeah, nothing but good things.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Now it seemed like a like just an awesome experience and like I don't know they had. You know, there's just so many things that I think you can like learn from others and like how they can all help you apply different things. For you know, there's just so many things that I think you can like learn from others and like how they can all help you apply different things. For you know, goal selection and just all these different things.
Speaker 1:Now, as you've kind of evolved and grown in the sport in the last few years, like you're, like you've had a lot of success, like obviously now with Western States and a couple you know some big races this year, like what I'm just curious, like, how do you set your goals? Like, is it more performance based for you? Is it just like finishing Cause I know these, these races are tough and they're really long? Like, how do you like set your goals accordingly for yourself.
Speaker 2:Um, when I'm planning out my year, it's kind of just about what excites me the most and then, leaning into that, that's pretty much where I yeah, I get a lot of my race inspiration or like what I want my goals to be. And you know, like I've got really I've got. I've got big dreams and size of the goals can't be rushed, Um, but then again I'm really lucky to have big dreams at all that fill me up. And when things don't work out, you know I'm like, yeah, I'm not there yet, but I want to be. Things don't work out, you know I'm like, yeah, I'm not there yet, but I want to be, and so that that just like drives my training and, um, how I approach racing.
Speaker 1:What are, what are your big dreams? I'm curious. I got to hear tell me.
Speaker 2:Oh no, um, I mean, western States for a long time has been one of my big dreams, and then I just want to be in this sport for a while, like I want to be a long-term athlete and a sustainable runner. So I want to be able to still be doing this when I'm I don't know, 80 years old.
Speaker 1:No, it's such a smart approach to it. You see, a lot of folks come in the sport. You know a lot of people, especially in the longer stuff, you know, overdo it. Some people over train injuries pop up. I feel like if you approach it from such a smart way, like it sounds like you'll have so much longevity Plus the way feeling is going now and the way everything's going, I just feel like it sets runners up for more just longevity in the sport, which is awesome. I'm so curious to like piggyback off that question that I just asked you is like who inspires you then? Like who who really inspires you in the sport to to chase those goals and chase your dreams?
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of people Um, I think one of them is, or one of them, coming into the sport was Courtney DeWalter, because she does things her own way and it's awe-inspiring. Like this sport is absurd, it's humbling, but Courtney is a reminder that you can like race true to you and like. That's kind of what the essence of ultra running is about. Um, it's not about like results or time or anything like that. Um, it's more about your experience and what you make of it, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Courtney's a good person to. Yeah, courtney's the best. Have you met her yet? Yeah, I have not. Oh my god, she's the like you would never know. Like I met her after she won, like dominated everybody at hard rock, like happened to be walking down the street in Silverton. I was like hey go, she's like she'll talk to you for like five minutes. She's the nicest person ever. Um, yeah, that's a good person to to admire in the sport. Um, all right, so kind of got through the schedule. What's like I'm so curious with you because especially, like you said, western states is so important to you. Like what is the bucket list race for you? What's something you haven't done yet that just like is so exciting? Is there an fkt, like a long trail fkt or something like that that's on your mind, or a race like what's something you haven't done yet? It's gotta be besides western states besides western states I can't.
Speaker 2:Western states, um, I don't know, maybe just like utmb, like I'd love to see chamonix and get to race internationally again, like that would be super cool. Um, but outside of that, yeah, my interests are like evolving and growing, so could change tomorrow. I don't know super cool.
Speaker 1:I'm so curious to get in your head about like long, like ultra, just because, like so many folks that are younger in the sport come in and like they're very focused on the 10K or the mountain classic or the VK, like a lot of sub ultra emphasis in younger, these whippersnappers these days, these young people which I love, sub ultra, that's all I raise. But it's so curious because some people you meet it's just like how hard can I push myself for a really long period of time? Is that more your take on it? Or what drives you toward that exploration? Is it more so just build out the pain cave? What is it? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think there's a really interesting connection between mind and body. Like I, I studied neuroscience and behavior in in college and yeah, there's definitely a link there and how your perception of what you're experiencing influences how you actually experience it. I think a lot of that can apply to ultra running as well. Um, but outside of that, just like ultra trail, community is truly when humanity is at its greatest, in my opinion, like the kindness of strangers and the uplift that you experience is you can't find that anywhere else.
Speaker 2:It's the greatest sport on earth, right yes, Super cool.
Speaker 1:Do you think maybe you'd ever jump into a soap ultra race? Is that anything that ever interests you, or no? Do you think?
Speaker 2:maybe you'd ever jump into a Swim Ultra race. Is that anything that ever interests you or no, you know, maybe, like it's definitely not out of the question, but I don't know. I think ultras are more fun. All right If that's weird to say Some people.
Speaker 1:Listen. I think it's a beautiful thing that you can come in and just pick, listen. I love to smash myself as hard as I possibly can for like two hours, tops Right, and then be completely destroyed after. But, like some folks like to smash themselves for like 12 to 15 hours and that's okay. You know we can have, but that's the beauty of the sport you can have both. Is there any anything on the FKT scene that inspires you and gets you interested? Just cause. I think there's some good stuff out there, right.
Speaker 2:I mean definitely I wouldn't say I have one on my mind right now, but yeah, that whole effort-based, like just solo adventure, you against you and maybe pastimes, is really intriguing for sure and definitely something I would maybe pursue down the road.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I got to ask you the fueling question just because it's such a hot topic debate. Now Everybody's talking about over 100 grams per hour, this, that and the other, especially being so new to the sport. Oh no, you're shaking your head. All right, I got to hear this. We got a hot take. Okay, can you tell me, especially being new to this, relatively speaking, how have you been able to navigate it?
Speaker 2:Well, actually I just started working over the past few months with a dietician, kylie Van Horn. If you know her, she just came out with a book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do know her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before that I was definitely figuring it out on my own and it is definitely a learning curve. Did not get it right for many years. Yeah, I think I was eating mashed potatoes and pickles and chips, which is all great, but if you're trying to train and race at a higher octane effort, that can maybe lead to issues. For some people maybe it doesn't, but yeah, I feel like I've. I've only recently started to figure figure out my, my feeling a little bit more Like I realized I'm a super salty sweater. I've been severely under salting during races, so that's been cool to figure out.
Speaker 1:Did you get a sweat test done for that?
Speaker 2:I did yeah.
Speaker 1:I just had a buddy go down to scratch Labs the other day and go get his done and he's like you got to go, you got to go do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, fine.
Speaker 2:It's cool to see.
Speaker 1:It does seem cool. Yeah, I don't know it's different. I think it's like. I just love that the sport has progressed so much that we're doing lact Like here we are that's interesting. What do you? How do you feel then? Are you more of like a liquid calorie person during a long race?
Speaker 2:Excuse me, so I've been using like a mix of liquid gels and then waffles. So I think having just a little bit of something solid to sit in my stomach helps me. But I definitely have not been doing. A hundred grams of carb plus an hour. I think that is a very individual number and maybe for like a grown male that's easier. But I've been sitting right around like 60, 70 grams carb per hour and I think that's my sweet spot.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, it's. It's interesting to see like how it's kind of like taking the sport by storm and like I just like you said, it's not not a one size fits all thing, like everybody's so different and you got to figure out what kind of like taking the sport by storm and like I just like you said, it's not not a one size fits all thing Like everybody's so different and you got to figure out what kind of like works for you.
Speaker 1:Um, all right, so I'd love to have an ultra runner on Cause, like now I can ask you like very ultra, like center questions that I don't ask sub ultra people.
Speaker 2:Let's talk music Like?
Speaker 1:do you listen to like music on these extremely long efforts that you do?
Speaker 2:music on these extremely long efforts that you do. So I will um, like in races or training. I will sometimes use music in, like maybe the last half or the last third of a race, kind of as a pick me up, but usually will not start with music or listen to it before then. I don't. At black Canyon I don't think I listened. I did not listen to music the entire time.
Speaker 1:Really, wow, that's impressive. I feel I did not listen to music the entire time. Really, that's impressive. I feel like I have to have like pumping the tunes, like just to like get me going. What's like, what's a pump up song for you? Like, what are you? What are you listening to? Like what gets you.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have one song that I tell everyone. It's my hype up song Stacy's mom.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, really one. It's my hype up song. Stacy's mom. Oh my gosh, really, how old are you? I'm 23. 23. Oh, my. God that song was popular, Like when I was in school.
Speaker 2:I'm ancient, so you can't. You can't be sad when you listen to Stacy's mom. Like you can't have the ultra sads. Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good one. Stacy's mom, yeah, all right, I'm gonna try that on the start line one day, or on a, on a, maybe at the end of a race.
Speaker 2:that sounds funny yeah, it's cool all right.
Speaker 1:Do you get nervous on start lines?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, I I do and like I don't know. I think anyone who says they don't is lying maybe. But you know, like after the gun goes off, like you're, you're starting, you're going that kind of goes away. So it's more so the anticipation and the excitement, I think, and just like, yeah, you're about to go run a really long, far distance and you're going to be out there pretty much all day, so that's like wrapping your head around that is a little scary. But um, yeah, you just have to welcome the fear and do it anyway.
Speaker 1:I like that. Are you? Are you a very strategic racer? Are you like cause? You see a lot of these zeros like jump off the gun and they're running a five minute mile, and like a 60 K race or a hundred K race. Is it like for you, or you, Mark, let's wait and like real people in, like what's, what's your strategy usually on these races?
Speaker 2:I think it depends on the race and, like what I know my strengths and weaknesses are. Like there's definitely some strategy that goes into it, but at the end of the day, running is play and I'm going to race because it's fun. Um, so yeah, I don't, I don't know, i't know, I it depends. I think that that's my question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what did you do at black canyon? Did you like? Just did you like, because that's such a fast race yeah it's like if you don't put yourself in the race then, things can unravel quickly, or you could find yourself, you know, kind of back there like what'd you do?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think that race was interesting because I uh, it was my fifth time racing, fourth time racing it and I knew there was going to be some women that just sprinted out hot like were rabbits from the gun, and I knew I did not want to stick with them, um, but I definitely did not want to lose contact with the front pack, because I think there's a trend more and more where, like, if you're, if you lose contact, um, you're not going to be able to ever catch back up, like the. The game is changing, so to speak. So, yeah, not so much hanging back, but not killing myself either. It's a fine line.
Speaker 1:Are you during these efforts? Are you especially cause it's so long? Are you watching heart rate? Are you going off of perceived exertion Like, what are you doing on there?
Speaker 2:Perceived exertion for sure, yeah, just own effort.
Speaker 1:Do you, when you work with your, with your coach, are you guys training off of perceived exertion versus heart rate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I wear a heart rate monitor and he'll look at those numbers, but I don't worry about them.
Speaker 1:okay, okay see, like I'm a psycho. I always like, I'm like very much like, okay, am I. Zone two, am I at threshold? Zone three, like where? Because like, at least for like sub ultra, I feel like I don't know. I've applied a lot of different like nordic skiing methods, like some of like the heart rate things that they do. Yeah, I feel like some of that stuff works. I don't know how what much it works for like really really long distances, because like you gotta kind of run zone two, zone three and like, yeah, try not to destroy yourself, whereas you know it's like a tricky. I don't know it's a tricky thing, super cool. Yeah, I don't know what would you? What's your plan for going into like western states? Is that going to be more like, okay, this is my time I think I can run to dusty corners. This is my time I think I can run to roby, like all these different like spots on the course. Is it going to be more segmented? Is that how you break it up? I guess?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I I think western is an interesting one because there's so much data out there about splits and timetables and stuff and and like there are kind of times you have to hit if you want to even be within striking distance of the top 10. Um, so like I'll have those in the back of my mind but I'm not going to let it absolutely dictate how my race goes, If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It does, it does, yeah. And I also feel like it's one of those things like you just can't go in. Like I feel like if you're so married to times yeah, if you're you know if it's a hot year or this, that and the other like I feel like it's almost because it's such a long race, such a hard race. There's so many mind games you can play with yourself. Yeah, that I don't know. You just have to like beat off those mental demons.
Speaker 2:You know like, oh man yeah, and it's so long Anything can happen. Like, preparation doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything. Um, yeah, yeah, but that's kind of the fun part.
Speaker 1:Are you starting to think about, like, who's going to pace you, who's going to come out and crew, like are you going to have family out to kind of like spectate, like what's, what's that going to be like?
Speaker 2:I actually already have my pacers locked in Nice.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Are you going to have any of the trail team folks out there, because it's like week after Broken Arrow, so they'll probably all be out to hang out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll see. We'll see who's able to make it, but Andy is definitely going to be there. He's also going to be doing media for ATRA, so that'll be cool to have him out on course.
Speaker 1:Very cool, all right. Well, we're at about 40 minutes so I'm gonna wind this one down now. Shea aquilano, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is a great conversation. Um, this is going to drop. Next week. We're going to be doing like a whole week of the trail team where we're going to like release everybody's uh, you know, kind of introducing everybody, so it'd be super fun. Yeah, I definitely want to keep in touch. I can't wait to have you on after western states or before then. I can't wait to chat about these races, these long things, but I don't know how you do it well, thank you, james.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a great conversation yeah, super fun.
Speaker 1:Thanks, I appreciate it yep, all right what'd you guys think?
Speaker 1:oh man, what a fun episode. Like I said, I can't wait to have back on um, just a super, super incredible athlete and just an inspiring human. So, guys, also one cool thing she recently just launched a podcast or a shoe review site that you guys can find on Instagram as well as YouTube. I believe it's called Shay's Shoe Review with Carly so Carly as well by women for women, which is pretty sweet. So it's a women's shoe review.
Speaker 1:I'm really stoked on this, especially because there's a lot of dude shoe reviews out there for dude shoes and no one's talking about women's shoes, and this is just such a space that's needed. So super excited to see Shay and Carly taking charge with this one. I'm sure it'll be extremely successful. So you can find that, like I said, on YouTube, at Shay's Shoe Review with Carly, and definitely give them a follow and subscribe, give them five stars and, yeah, give them some love, guys, before you get going. Also, if you're on Instagram, hop on Instagram and give Shay a follow. You can find her at Shay, underscore AQ. That's just Shay S-H-E-A underscore AQ.
Speaker 1:Like I said, send her a DM, send her some words of encouragement, congratulate her on her dominant performance and wish her the best of luck as she gets ready for Western states and worlds. It's going to be quite the double. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would mean the world to us. And yeah, have a great rest of your week. I got more coming down the pipeline. It's a busy week, thank you.
