The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Canyons 50K Race Preview with Special Guest Teddy Tonelli
The ultra-trail world is buzzing as Canyon's 50K approaches, and we've got the ultimate preview loaded with analysis, predictions, and some good old-fashioned trash talk. In this special episode, host James Lauriello teams up with guest co-host Teddy Tonelli to break down what might be the most anticipated ultrarunning matchup of the year: defending champion Eli Hemming versus 2023 winner Hayden Hawks.
These two titans of trail running bring nearly identical impressive résumés to the start line. Hawks recently dominated Terroir 50K with a blazing 3:18:46, while Hemming crushed Big Alta 50K in 3:19:30, leaving elite runners gasping in his wake. As Teddy puts it, "This should have a belt on the line" – it's that big of a heavyweight clash.
The women's race promises equal drama with Jennifer "El Lobo" Lichtner squaring off against Tabor Hemming in a rematch of last year's battle where they were separated by just two minutes. Former champion Heather Jackson lurks as a potential spoiler after a disappointing showing at Black Canyon.
Beyond the elite matchups, we dive into controversial topics like UTMB's eye-popping race fees ($285 for a 50K!), the exodus of talent from The North Face team, and what it means to "swim with sharks" when racing against the sport's best. We also spotlight dark horses who might surprise everyone, including local favorite Nick Handel and rising star Cade Michael.
Whether you're placing bets, planning your race strategy, or just love ultra-trail drama, this episode delivers everything you need to know about one of America's premier ultrarunning events. And for those wanting even spicier commentary? Head to the Chasing Trail YouTube channel for the unedited "director's cut" version.
What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I've got something different for you all. I'm joined by special co-host, mr Teddy Tonelli, and together we preview the Canyon's 50k with a little bit of a preview of the Canyon's 100k as well as the 100 mile. It's fun.
Speaker 1:This is a satire-based episode with a whole bunch of shit talking. It's up to you guys to decide what's real and what's well. The analysis is obviously real, but the rest of it there's some wild shit in here. It's a super fun episode, probably the most fun I've ever had on a podcast on the Chasing Trail website, slash Instagram, slash YouTube, slash Spotify, apple, as well as the steep stuff as well. So you'll probably be able to get the director's cut, which is not edited, which is going to be on YouTube. That one's got some serious shit talking in it. Hope you guys enjoy that one, and this one's a little more dulled down for the boys and girls out there. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoyed this episode. It's a personal favorite of mine. Thank you, teddy, for coming on, looking forward to many more episodes down the line Without further ado. The Canyon to 50K and 100K race preview it's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
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Speaker 1:Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod Again that's steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced, but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think. Teddy Tonelli, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. What's going on, buddy? Hey, you know.
Speaker 2:James, it's great to be here. I was saying your podcast, you're my podcast. I mean your podcast is great, I'm doing good.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's a wild day, man. It's already April. It's like late April. Canyons is right around the corner. It's a good day in Northern California for some racing getting ready for it, April 26th. We're here to talk about the Canyons races, man, Mostly the 50K, but we could talk about it all. What do you think? What do you got going on these days?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, it's great because I got some inside information. Actually, yeah, yeah, no, you know, it's great because I got some inside information. Actually, I'm in Northern California right now, james, actually in the Bay Area, just outside of Auburn, where this race is going to be primarily taking place, and I'm telling you the weather is incredible here. You know everybody talks about it, but it's crazy. Look, we're a few days out from this race, james, a few weeks. Whatever is here April 26th. Okay, I looked on the weather channel. There's nothing there. So I went to the library, I got myself a farmer's almanac. Okay, I'm telling you, this thing is amazing. It's telling me the temperature is going to be between 50 degrees and 70 degrees. James, that's perfect running weather. I don't know about you, but for me that's perfect.
Speaker 1:It is going to be perfect, man, I think I got the Weather Channel. I don't know what I checked. I checked Google 66 for the high, partly cloudy, 23% chance of rain. How can they predict that so far out, that percentage of rain?
Speaker 2:That's crazy. 23? Like okay, like you tell me you picked the number 23, like like scientifically who? Yeah, 23, oh yeah, well, guess what?
Speaker 1:teddy's information says 27, so there that's awfully specific man, I don't know it's kind of crazy. Have you ever been on the canyons course? You ever run around there yeah, you know, teddy, I.
Speaker 2:So I've been uh out there and I've run on the western states course a little bit, which there's a lot of the western states is is on the on the canyons course, um, so I've run a little bit of that. Uh, I've never actually run the race itself. Uh, you know, I know I was talking to a buddy. Uh, he was telling me that the canyons 100k uh, before it was uh, uh, bought by, uh, uh, by the billionaires. Uh was, uh, uh, it was actually started out as 100k and now they got all these other races. They got the 25k, they got a 50k, you know, and I know we're focusing on the 50, but they got 100k. Now they started with 100 miler, yeah, yeah, so many races, you know, before the billionaires bought it.
Speaker 1:I dude, like this is going back to like 2021, maybe it was. It was still utmb race, I think in 21, maybe it was before that. But like there was this, like it used to be a really sweet course where it was going backwards on the western states trail and like a ton of vertical, like it was like an actual climbers course, and then they changed it to make it start and end in auburn, where it used to start, I believe started in auburn and ended like near china wall, all the way up here getting into the high country. So yeah, the course course has been changed a bunch over the years. I'm not going to talk too much shit other than the entry fee prices, but the course used to be better, in my opinion. I think they butchered it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the entry fees. Look, it's kind of I don't understand. I'm trying to figure out how they're trying to structure these things. I look at it this way. You know, this is a little, as they say is nuanced. This is the way I see it. Is that utmb comes in, they buy this race and they make it like it's 250 or something like that for the 50k 500 for the 100 285 285 for a 50k.
Speaker 1:I know I listen, I haven't and this is like goes to speak to like how, like I have this is bad. I I haven't looked at like a race entry fee in a long time. This is the first one I've looked at, like probably a year and like happened to look at a big time athlete no, no, no, no, no. But it's like some ultra races are pretty, pretty cheap, um, but like and yes, I am fortunate enough to have some race entries paid for Dude $285 to go race in this economy.
Speaker 2:In this economy, you're going to start putting tariffs. You're going to start putting tariffs on our race entry fees. You know, look, all I'm saying is, if we want to keep it American. I looked at the 100-mile race. There's not a single American running the 100-mile race. Where are the terrorists doing for that? Is that true? They're supposed to be, yeah, they're supposed to be bringing jobs back. And look, and here's the thing is that it's a hundred mile. Okay, it's, it's the elites. There's not an American elite running the hundred mile.
Speaker 2:But anyway but the but the but the but the race fees, like you were saying, james. I think that that may be. I see a lot of that's where we're going. This is really expensive. Where's the money going? I better be getting a cheeseburger at an aid station if I'm paying that much money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, seriously, I mean all that for just a medal and some photos at the end of the finish line. The only reason I have an issue with it is because one canyons used to be a really solid grassroots event and I just don't think it is anymore and it used to be. It still is a golden ticket race, but the lure of the golden ticket race before, I feel like, might have been higher than it is now. But the other part of it that I have a hard time with is like so you're going to get what? 700, 800 runners per race You're charging how many people are in the 100 mile? And you're going to get what? 700, 800 runners per race You're charging how many people are in the 100 mile. You're charging $500 a head Dude. That's some serious dough they're making. There's some production value there, some serious money they're going to be charging. So yeah, I don't know. That was something I'm glad we included, because I saw those prices and it was like $179 for a 25K race.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me right now and it's crazy, but like it's, it's. It seems to be everywhere, james, and we'll get off this topic because it's not something we want to harp on. But you know, I look at, like you know, the other day I was talking to one of those grassroots race directors and he was talking like, about this, like the destination trail races, where charging people upwards of $3,000 and then put it on a payment plan. I'm sorry, this, this, I think we've, I think we've lost touch with uh, with, with uh, with reality here.
Speaker 1:But that's okay, that's fine, yeah, yeah, all right, let's, let's, we can get into the race. We talked about a little bit about the 50 K is deep man. We've got Hayden Hawks, eli Hemming, heather Jackson, tabor Hemming, we've got Jennifer Lickner, and that's just the top five or six names. The depth is deep man. What do you think about some of these names in this race?
Speaker 2:Yeah, james, I'm looking at some of these guys and the 50K is absolutely incredible. I'm going through this entry list and the 50K is insane. I'm going through this entry list and the 50K is insane. We got Eli Hepp, we got Seth Ruling, hayden Hawks, nick Handel, drew Holman. At the end of the day, every one of those guys can potentially win this race. Now I'm a little worried. I think that we're going to see something a little different this race. I think people see Eli. I think that performance in Alta. He did what he did. He's a competitor, he's going to come out and he's going to show up, but I'm thinking we're going to see somebody else sitting on top of the podium for this one.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. I think so. I think the big matchup for me that I'm looking at is going to be between Hayden and Eli. I think we have two and we can get. We'll get into matchups a little bit later as we get through the storylines, um, but you're seeing two very evenly matched athletes, um, one is the best 50k runner probably on the planet. One is the best outside of gym probably the best 100k runner on the planet.
Speaker 1:So it's like wow, you know this is going to be. This is going to be the battle of the heavyweights. I'm excited for this. There should be a belt on the line for this. One like this is.
Speaker 2:This is insane like I mean, yeah, we get bruce buffer in there, and you know they, maybe that's what the utmb budget is for. So look I, maybe we, maybe we jump into conclusions. Maybe bruce is gonna be out there it's time you do that with you, with your mind. Yeah, that's good, well, okay, but eli eli won last year. He's defending his crown, so he's, you know, he's a, he's a champion, yeah, and ran seven.
Speaker 1:I mean I don't know if they changed the course, because I know they change the courses like every year, but Eli ran about seven minutes faster than Hayden did and Hayden won 23. So it's crazy. It's crazy how fast this race is. Also, heather Jackson's back. She is a former champion of this race. She's coming back after an absolute epic blow up at Black Canyon. So we're going to see where she faded back to 14th place. We're going to see what goes on there. That's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1:I'm sure she's hungry to go get a dub this year, especially going into Western States. Probably a hard effort she's going to have to put in to get that. I'm a hard effort she's gonna have to put in to, uh, get that. Um. I'm also really looking forward to the rematch between jennifer lichner and taber having like taber taber is a monster and like after coming off this like crazy road I know I think she might be doing one of the marathon majors as well, but like after, like just dismantling the field, um, she didn't really have anybody to challenge her at um, what do you call it? Um at Alta. And then you know, you got somebody like Jennifer Lichtner, you know it's crazy, yeah, and I think you know it is fun.
Speaker 2:It's funny because, like I think Jen, it's very interesting. Let's talk about storylines for a second, because we're looking at Jen Lichtner as being as, as probably the top, top female on the North Face team now, with Katie Scheid's recent departure to on-running, and I think that Jen is hungry. I think that there's a. That's where my money is, james. I'm thinking it's the tiny, I think it was the El Lobo. She's like the wolf, yeah, oh, I like that. I like that.
Speaker 1:Jen is scary. I've never been on a start line with her, but like she's a monster dude, like I don't know, and especially like you said, like to me she's probably. I mean it goes back and forth, I mean she was, she can be beaten, like bailey was able to beat her last year at the rut 28k. But I think as far as 50k races go, I mean, she's a past champion of jfk, which is a 50 mile race, but like she's, but runs like a 50k because it's so fast. But you're looking at someone. In my opinion, that's probably the best mountain 50k athlete on the planet. Like somewhere, maybe outside of like tony mccann, like she could compete with tony on any given day. Um, great, you just when one. The trans grand Canaria marathon. Jen's a monster dude and like, like has often beaten one. The rut 50 K, like I said, took second at this race last year, but only behind Danny Marino who was, you know, on a heater and just came off a really solid half marathon block.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what with, uh, what comes out of that on the woman's side.
Speaker 2:How do you feel about, about, about hannah, hannah, all good, oh, you had to ask me that. I had to ask because I think little I, I, I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it people just watch out, watch out, really coming for you, I'm saying I'm just saying, I'm putting it out.
Speaker 1:When you start to swim with the sharks, in my opinion you gotta remember, like hannah runs a lot of like longer races and the braces that she's made her name off of, um, some like she won a european race last year what was it? Eiger uh, which is a great race at the end of the day, but like when you're talking about like swim with the sharks, like really world-class competition, like your tabers, your jennifers, your yeah it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1:I I think like, like I said, swimming with sharks oh yeah, oh yeah, it could be.
Speaker 2:It could be all bad for all good.
Speaker 1:We'll see, we will see um, yeah, all right, so let's let's move on. What's up with all the terex athletes at this race? Is that like I?
Speaker 2:I, I've seen that I well, look, here's the thing. I don't know. I maybe, maybe utmb is looking to take breaks with hoka. I'm not sure, I'm just saying no one ever said that. I I what. The one team that I find very interesting, james, is the arcteryx team. Like where did these guys come from? Out of nowhere, I mean. I know it's a little bit of a tangent, but like, holy crap, we'll get to that in a second. The Terrence team I know we're talking about the 50K, but the 100K, I believe, is it gosh, our guy Eric LaPuma.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, he's racing it LaPuma. I don't know.
Speaker 2:LaPuma. Okay, look, it's a western states, like on the western states course there's the whole cougar thing. He's a puma, puma's a cougars. It's just different names. Teddy knows a lot about animals so I know this. But the but I think the puma is gonna take it. He's a terex guy.
Speaker 1:He is a terex guy. He also, what did you, what did you say he looked like. I can't remember that for the life of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he looks like a taxidermist.
Speaker 1:He does, he does yeah.
Speaker 2:Or a serial killer a little bit, or yeah, and who knows, maybe he moonlights, I'm not sure I mean, but he's a great runner, so I won't take that away from him. Oh, I'm a big fan of Eric Lapuma Dude Eric Lap he is, and he's so nice, he's such a nice guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to see what he can do. I hope he you know, dude, like he's been knocking on, he's so good and like I think his he gets a little overlooked, like you know, like, for instance, like he, probably he would have obviously won that race against you know he matched up against Jim. Jim, you know, has been on a heater obviously and he would have won that race of jim. Jim didn't show up, so he gets like overlooked right in some of these matchups. In my opinion, I think he's world class and uh, yeah, I'd love to see him get into western states this year.
Speaker 2:It'd be cool to see him win and you know, and it's just getting more and more stacked with western states. I mean, last week, uh, we saw at gorge adam peterman came back and he showed out, you know, and like and like he took a break. You know, he decided was a few years ago. He decided I'm going to come in, I'm going to win Western States and then hurt my foot. And now he's back and, holy crap, I just like I see these guys just more and more added to the start line, more added to the start line. And it's nuts. And you know, one of these guys was speaking of the 50K. He's actually a local guy. I, you know Nick Handel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kid's nasty dude had some great finishes at Broken Arrow Won what was it last year? Won the big out to 28K pretty convincingly. Yeah, and he's had some great finishes at OCC too. Man, he's a very solid 50K athlete.
Speaker 1:He's kind of folded a few times in bigger races. So I don't know, it's going to be interesting to see, like, like I keep coming back to that same, that same through line with swimming with sharks, right like eli hayden. I just, in my opinion, humbly, I see eli and hayden just taking it out so fucking fast and like you're either gonna it's gonna be sink or swim. You're swimming, like I said, you're swimming with sharks. At that point. So it's either you run your own race and hold on for dear life and hope you can eke out that third spot. But that third spot is probably going to go to a Darren Thomas or like a Cade Michael, or maybe a Seth, I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 2:Well, that's absolutely accurate. I mean, I think that Seth ruling he's a Tennessee guy and so he's used to all the roots and the rocks and all these things. And and then you take a guy like Hayden, who you know. I mean this guy has made his career on running on you know, nice, nice smooth trails and really really fast. I'm not saying he's a bad technical runner by any stretch of the imagination, but when you've got a guy like Eli and Hayden and they take it out, there is no more running your own race. You can do that and you could hope they're going to blow up. But let's look at the history. Yeah, they never blow up.
Speaker 2:They ain't going to blow up. I mean, I watched states one day last year. Hayden was coming in and he was chasing down Rod and I was like he's going to get it, like Rod's going to die.
Speaker 1:It was like he's going to get it, like Rod's going to die it was close dude.
Speaker 2:It was very close, and that's the guy you're dealing with there. He's bringing that same energy from start to finish, okay. And so, yeah, sink or swim, you have a guy that's coming in. You have two champions that we know can one of those guys? I agree?
Speaker 2:I just think that Hayden, I think he's gonna take this one only because I think, that eli, eli, eli did a lot over at a big alta and I think that he said that he might just, he might just go in and, like you know, hey, if it's a little close and hayden's there, fuck it like I'm just yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1:I do want to double back to the 100k. Uh, yeah, so we've got interesting. So my teammate, my las partiva teammate, jackson Cole, is on the start list. I'm very interesting to see. Interesting Like he's run some longer stuff before. Like he I think he I can't remember if he finished or he dropped at Leadville back in the day but like you're talking about an insanely talented athlete on top of that that already trained with Jeff McGavro and Adam Peterman talented athlete on top of that that already trained with Jeff McGavro and Adam Peterman.
Speaker 1:Like it's just a matter of time. Like, if he puts it all together, like that's someone that could come out of the a hundred K with a golden ticket. Why wouldn't be at all surprised?
Speaker 2:Oh, I, I, I a hundred percent agree, I do. And you've got Anthony Costales in there as well. Who's a dark horse? I look, and I know your guy, you know he is Jackson. Goal is for diva. Look, and I know your guy, you know, is Jackson Cole is Sportiva. Look, and I love it, I love it. I think you're right. I do have to say one thing about the 100K, both on the men's side and the women's side. I mentioned earlier that the 100 miler didn't have any American men racing. To me that's a travesty. This is a big race, everybody. The 100 miler was put into this race a few years ago. Do was put into this race a few years ago? Do you remember who won it, Gosh man originally? I can't remember, it doesn't really matter, but what I do know is that I see this guy Did Canyon Woodward do really well.
Speaker 1:I can't remember.
Speaker 2:It was Canyon. It was Canyon Woodward, I believe it was. I believe he won the inaugural one. I think he kind of owns this race a little bit, like he's gotten, like I think he's podiumed, like every time. Yeah, but but my issue is is that we don't have an American male elite, elite, elite, ok, representing us. But we have this, this gentleman, ryan Montgomery, who is a hundred mile racer, running in the hundred K. Ok, I don't know if this guy's trying to save himself, the states or something like that, but sometimes you've got to show a little patriotism and you've got to say you know what? I'm not racing the 100K. There's plenty of American representation there. I'm going to go race the 100 miler and I'm going to show this German wahoo who's coming in here and thinking he's going to run on our territory. I don't think so.
Speaker 1:No patriotism no stars, he DNFs. Yeah, I'm surprised we don't have any Americans in the top. And like any elite Americans in the top Did you? I peeled through the 100K and 100 miler and, like I said, the 100 miles. So, first of all, I got to shit on you, tmb, for a second. Like guys you got to get, just give me a list. Why do I have to search by name, like, what? Like you're really going to waste my time with that. And then you give me a list of what five elite men and women on for each race. Like, come on.
Speaker 2:Because they have, like, their UTMB ranking is a little bit high, because that's the thing is, like they give you the top five but there's another five list of elite athletes who could come in here and take the dub without any questions.
Speaker 1:It's zero respect from UTMB Dude, Darren Thomas, is racing this race. I mean, it was kind of a late sign up, but like he's not on the website and like the only reason I knew that is because I talked to him and I was like I'm glad I know now because I would have never included it, because I didn't think to search for his name, right, because he just came off Big Alta.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there's a lot of people that are like we might even, when we get to our picks, who I think we might not even see in there. I mean, I looked at a lot of names, I checked as many as I could, but I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 2:I did too.
Speaker 1:I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier. With Katie Scheid and Jermon leaving North Face, what do you think about that Huge man? Yeah, it's a huge move.
Speaker 2:It's a huge move, I think. Look, I think it's great for Katie and them. I think this is. I'll talk about what I know. You know I've seen a lot of movement in free agency this year TNF, the North Face. They've lost two stud ladies. They've lost Jasmine, who you had on the podcast recently Canadian, yeah, big, big fan of the Jasmine and and, and now Katie's gone. You know, I'm wondering. It's like it seems like they made a really big push into trail and then now they're kind of peeling it back a little bit. But when you've got the talents of Katie Scheid and Zach Miller and you decide that, like, you're not going to keep those guys, those there's just, there's elite athletes right there and and that's why I say I think that jen has an opportunity to come in and cement herself as, like, the premier north face athlete. You know, uh, I, I don't know, I I think that it's great.
Speaker 2:For on running, I hate their shoes. I think they're terrible. Like they pay them, they're the most uncomfortable. Like, in for trail, like, look, if you're doing corrective shoes or you're working in like a nursing home or something like that, yeah, on, shoes are fantastic, super cushy, you know, like, like, but you go out and you run in the trail, you're going to roll your ankle, you're gonna like it's all bad, so, but you know. So what that tells me is that, like Katie got paid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's where I was going with that. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, you think I. My guess is that, yeah, it was because, like I don't know, I heard on single track they were talking about like Brett Horning made the point like oh, you can, you know now they can go run and you know road shoes and you got all kind of you have a whole lineup of shoes. I'm like bro, that's not the reason she left.
Speaker 2:She got the back. Yeah, yeah, no, nobody's going to I'm running because of their shoe technology. Let me break it to you. You wear that for status, like you go to rvi to go buy your patagonia puffy and and and your white on running shoes. That's right. Um, that's fine if you're, if you're gonna, if you're you know you're gonna go out and you're gonna go and try and impress some, you know, granola girls in in boulder. But, like, if you're gonna go run a trail race, I don't think so yeah and listen rightfully.
Speaker 1:So I hope, like they, she's making like close to courtney level money because she's close to courtney's level, if not there, you know. I mean, if anybody's gonna challenge courtney over the next few years, it's gonna be katie scheid, and if anybody's to be the next Courtney, it's probably going to be Katie Scheid, you know, if there's anybody close Tara Dower maybe, I don't know, Tara Dower races a lot.
Speaker 1:Man Like yeah, doesn't pick and choose her battles, like she just chooses a lot of battles. So it's like, can you hold up over the long term for something like that, whereas like I, I would, I would, I would agree completely.
Speaker 2:And I think that, like Katie, I'm going to say hot take here. Maybe it's not even a hot take. I think she's breaking all Courtney's records. I'm just saying it. I think you know she stays healthy. I mean, we're looking at a talent here and you get your bag, you go and go get yourself some Las Portivas and paint them with on colors, so that way you don't get in trouble and you do your thing and go crush records.
Speaker 1:because I mean I'm just saying that's true. It's going to be fun to see where this goes.
Speaker 2:All right, let's talk. I do think I will want to say one really quick thing, james, is that with the TNF athletes is the one that they had before was the jasmine. You talked about her going to arcteryx. I know we're gonna do pics, but I'm saying the 100k it's not even close. She's taking it, she's taking the dub. Nobody, nobody, nobody comes close to her I, I agree with that dude.
Speaker 1:She's a monster and like someone like talk about a kind, good human like I'm excited for like where, where things go with her, like I think she's I don't know like it was just a really good fit for someone like her to go to arcteryx. She's from bc, you know like, and she's got like all that shoe lineup and everything behind her. Yeah, in my opinion, um, yeah, I see her winning it definitely yeah, why not?
Speaker 1:oh yeah I didn't see anybody like on the women's side that I think would really like push and plus she she's a former champion already, so it doesn't matter. Question is does she want to go back to Western States? I don't remember if I asked her that on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking they look, I don't know, teddy's going to be out there. There's actually kind of a little bit of a break in those I actually secure. I'm a little biased, to be honest. I'm actually doing the crew work for jasmine, so I kind of had to say this contract contractually, yeah, so I'm gonna be out there at canyons looking at it firsthand. We might actually get some reporting from the, from the thing. I might, I might pop in, uh, but I got crew duties, so I got, I got, I got. I really gotta focus on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta, I can't mess it up if she doesn't.
Speaker 2:If she, yeah, I gotta give her her baby food and then I got to make sure that that she gets it. She cause. My point being is that the only call Teddy to be on the crew if you're trying to get to Western States? That's the only time I feel those phone calls, so I'm I'm assuming. Let's hope she brings it home.
Speaker 1:It's going to be, it's going to be fun to say All right, let's get into uh, let's get into some questions here. Do you think this particular course let's talk in the 50 K Do you think this particular course suits a particular type of athlete?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think, I think it definitely does. I mean, that's why I brought up Nick handle. And again, you know, granted, that he is going into a freaking lion's den. He's used to running on those courses, he's training on them. Everyone talks about the California carpet. That's why Nick Handel he's a local boy, that's my local pig, that's my dark horse Also, because I know him he's a good guy. But Hayden Hawks, I'm telling you right now, I think that that guy, you get that California cup a lot of downhill. I think that that's. I think that that's who it's going to, uh, who it's going to benefit, that that really fast runner who can open it up, can keep that. Yeah, Just keep, just keep it going. And that to me that's hated I. But again we'd say Eli too, what do you think, what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 1:one. Yeah, I mean, like this is an interesting. This isn't like um, I don't know. So like we just previewed, for instance, like a golden trail series race, the kobe trail, right, and that's an interesting one, where you get a lot of athletes that are going to be racing on a mountainous course, right where. But people are coming in, for some people are coming in from orienteering backgrounds, some people are coming in from just pure fitness. So some people don't have maybe the technical skills to hold up right, they just have the fitness. This is quite the opposite, where we're previewing a course where it's 31 miles but 5500 feet of climbing in the winter is running low, you know, low threes, like in, you know. So figure, your winter is going to be running.
Speaker 1:I don't know a 210, 215 marathon somewhere in that range on the men's side. So it's like, dude, who's got the skills to do that? I think it's going to be Hayden Hawks, eli Hemming. But it's like you don't really have to worry about any technicality, like you could just kind of float and worry about the rest of it. You know, let the rest take care of itself. I've, like I said, I've never been on the course. You could speak better to this because you've run a little bit on the Western States course. There's like no technicality to it, right? I mean, I would imagine because it's a fast race.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, if somebody's coming in here and they're calling this course technical, they need to go back to road. Running is really my take on the whole thing. It's because, again, this is really. It's a smooth course, it's a fast course, that's what it's. I mean, to your point, when the this used to be more of a climber's course and now we have the descending portion where it's a net descent, it's that it's getting faster and faster. I don't know. I think you are 100% right, though. I think that there's zero technicality involved with this course. I think the temperatures are going to be great. Obviously, when you get down into the canyons, it's going to warm up a little bit. So you might see some people who go out there a little bit too fast, a little bit too eager. They may blow up, but I think we're going to have nice temps. I don't think we're going to have anything crazy, uh, but it you know everything. Anything, anything could change, but I think, as far as course, it's going to benefit the really fast guys for sure.
Speaker 1:What do you think? Uh, baseline fitness wise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd say, that's probably, that's probably accurate. Um, I you know, I I did see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably Okay.
Speaker 1:Who do you think? All right, so I got I, so you got some dark horses right. You talk about Nick Handel. I think my dark horse is probably Cade Michael and some other gentlemen and ladies out there. Do you think someone's going to have a career defining moment? Like, let's say, let's say Cade Michael goes and has the race of his life and beats, beats an Eli, and like, beats, like I already think he's totally capable of beating Josh he probably has already, and I just didn't see it. Like, maybe, like, because I know they've trained together, Like they're both Western guys, Like is it possible to go beat a Hayden Hawks or like an Eli, Like could that be done? And, if so, like, where does that put Cade Michael or somebody like that or a Nick Handel?
Speaker 2:I think that this race in particular I think was it last week we we seen Gorge and I think that's one of those races where you could potentially get some like crazy local guy who runs those trails all the time and, like you know, has that career defining moment, comes out of nowhere and races that we see a lot of that on the East coast Sometimes. I think with this one, I think with this one because of the explosion of UTMB and Canyons and everything this brings out everybody I mean we still got a lot of international runners here that are coming in too, that are going to compete. I mean we focus on the Americans because we're the best and I get that, but the thing is there's a lot of talent coming in here. I don't think that's going to happen this time, james. I think that what we're going to see is we're going to see the regular run of the mill guys, we're going to see the elite guys that we see that are on the podiums.
Speaker 2:Normally. I just see it being that type of race because of the popularity, because it brings out so much talent. Now, at the same time, it's any given Sunday, as they say. Anybody could come out there and win and I think that a lot of the you know this list is so deep, the 50K is absolutely stacked and it could be. I mean, would you say, I mean, give it a percentage chance with this, with, with, with Cade is what do you think his chances are of actually taking a podium, would be my question.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think Cade has a very high probability of getting on the podium. He hasn't raced this year. I think he's fresh and he's fit. I most recently put up and like pulled Andy Wacker. Andy Wacker just like absolutely dismantled the course record at the big out, the 28 K Right, and he pulled Andy up gold Hill and like you're talking like five minute grade adjusted pace you know I forget how many miles it is, but like five minute greater just to pace for like 3,700 feet of climbing up a dirt road and like it's just very similar right, like this is going to have what?
Speaker 1:5,000 feet of climbing, almost 6,000 feet over 31 miles. So Kate's got the wheels, dude, he's got the tools to do it. He's young, he's hungry. Oh, I'd love to see him get third. I don't know if he has, like I don't know if he can beat hayden or eli on on a fast day, but let me tell you something, dude, I still think he's. I mean, we'll talk about when he get into picks, but like I think he has the tools to get again on that podium. There's no doubt. Okay, yeah I'm okay.
Speaker 2:No, that's fair yeah that's fair that's fair, I like that let's talk.
Speaker 1:Let's all right, let's get into matchups. I know we already talked about Hayden and Eli. I just want to throw a couple stats in there. So, like I said, 2025 Hayden One thing we can't discount is Hayden's Terroira in 2025. Okay, we ran the Terroira 50K.
Speaker 1:Robbie Simpson is so fucking fast and took things out so quick. He runs himself into a 318.46. And he found himself behind very early in the race. Okay, for, like probably the first half of the race, hayden found himself like behind and, trying to catch up, had to put the wheels on to finish that race, runs it and wins in 318 46 in the teraware 50k. Just so like hayden doesn't panic either.
Speaker 1:That's one thing I really like about him, dude, he's. He's kind of in the last few years, started to put it all together, right, he's. You know, he's kind of learned how to race with this wet like from western states. Right, he learned how to be behind and still play the game, race other dudes, race other matchups and, um, kind of play catch up. And he did just what that was in terroira. Eli, at the same time, got to assert his dominance on the big alta. Okay, like, when's the big alta 50k in 319, 30. Absolutely like makes david roche. And who I love david roche? David roche is one of my favorite athletes in the sport but really just breaks him, makes him look silly and david roche is a genetic freak like absolute animal good.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of crazy because eli, to me, beat some of the best dudes that I revere high in this bro, like remy larue. Right, remy larue took third on that day and in my opinion, he's one of the best climbers in the world. Um, yeah, and eli just like made these guys I don't want to say make, made him look silly, but like just really rolled dudes up and just like asserted his will and dominance like dude. At one point in time he was just like stopped on the course and waited for David to catch up to him so he had somebody to run with. Like Eli, is that good Dude? These are very similarly matched athletes. Like Eli can climb, hayden can climb. Eli can descend, hayden can descend. Both of them can take things to the limit. One's the best 100k runner in the world outside of gym. One's the best 50k runner in the world. How does that? I don't know. One has won this race in 2023. One has won this race in 2024. I have no idea. This is bananas. I love matchups like this.
Speaker 2:It's, it's gonna be absolutely incredible and I think that one of the big reasons and that's like you brought up is is really hayden's ability to kind of like fall in and know exactly where he is. And I think, as you mentioned, he's gotten better at racing, just strictly better, just he has nailed it. And the thing is is he's so comfortable with this course. I just think that that's why, for me I know we get the picks, all that. I think everybody's clear on who I'm picking here. I think that Hayden is going to take it and it's because he has so much knowledge of this course. It's going to play huge dividends for him because when you take those two levels of fitness both of them great athletes I just think that Hayden has the edge a little bit. Both are so complete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Hayden's not going to, like you said, hayden's not going to get scared If, if Eli's running out in the head and he's you know he's two minutes up on him Hayden will not panic. He's going to keep steady, eddie going to keep going and, and and I. But that spectacular from a from a spectator standpoint is that you have these two guys. You look at big alter. Uh, eli took it out from the very beginning. If I'm behind that man thinking that I'm gonna follow him that entire race and see that he, how he set that tone, that's a that's. That's scary from the very beginning. You're gonna have to follow this guy for 31 miles and and he's got that it's gonna be tough. I'm still picking hayden because I just think that his course knowledge and the fact that he has absolutely honed it in, I think he's taking this and then he's taking it all the way to States and he's going to win that this year too.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, yeah dude.
Speaker 2:I could see it.
Speaker 1:I don't know it's going to be so interesting to see. There's a lot of a lot. I think Hayden has really learned how to get comfortable in races and not panic and just be like, okay, I'm going to play this smart and assert my will and dominance, maybe later on. The thing about Eli is Eli has always been so good and so talented that he doesn't get pushed very often. The only time I saw him flustered was probably at JFK, where him and David Sinclair like had an epic battle and if it wasn't for Eli's stomach kind of going south a little bit like who's to say like how much, eli could have very well won that race. And David Sinclair is like one of the best in the world as well. So I don't know like anything under a 50K. Eli's a really safe bet. Like I'm taking the under on. You know know, like eli is just so complete. Um, yeah, we'll talk about it a little bit more as we get to I do want to.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about the matchup between jennifer lichner and tabor. So yes, these two duked it out last year. Uh, 2024 canyons. Tabor lost to jennifer. Uh, tabor took third, still ended up on the podium. Jen took second, ended up on the podium as well. They were separated by a little over two minutes maybe I think it was two minutes and what looks like five seconds. We don't do public math here on the podcast but two minutes, five seconds separated. One ran 359, one ran 357. So I don't know. Like I said, we talked about this a little bit. Jen won the trans grand canara marathon, tabor won the big out to 50k. I think a lot of this, this matchup, is going to come down to who has the early season fitness and where that's gonna go. Um, yeah, all right, let's take picks. I'm gonna let you start off with picks.
Speaker 2:Let's do top five women on your side oh gosh, um, okay, um, boy the hell, I'm gonna go number one, uh, I'm going jen, I'm taking jen uh for the win. On this one, I, I know I said, uh, hannah, that was that was, that was false. Uh, number two, I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna have tabor, um, you know, and uh, I'm going to let you fill in three, four and five. I think that for me, those are the two women that I'm looking at being one and two. I think that the third place, I think the third place is, um, um, it's up for grabs, it's really up for grabs, and I, but I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm sticking, I'm going Jen, table one and two, third is really up in the air. Who, if you were to give third place, if I was to give you Jen and Tabor, what do you got for third?
Speaker 1:I've got Heather Jackson but I'm curious as to why you don't have Heather Jackson winning either, or in the top two.
Speaker 2:Look, I think and it really comes down to this is that I think that between Tabor and Jen, I think that there's something there that they're going to be battling it out with each other and they're going to be. I just think that Jen is primed and Tabor is going to chase her. Tabor is not going to go, and it's not that Heather Jackson can't come out there and do the exact same thing, because we may see all three of them at the front trading spaces. One of them is in the front. It could go back and forth. It's going to be quick. It spaces. You know one of them's in the front, you know it could go back and forth. It's going to be quick, it's going to be, it's going to be explosive.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't think there's any reason why I don't have a having the dub. I just think that it's jen. I think that jen is going to win it and taba is just. She's got that fitness, she's rolling it into trail finally, and it, and I don't think, I think she's going to bring it together again another year, another year. The freaking hemmings just lighten everything up. I swear to God if they have a child do you realize?
Speaker 2:Olympian, do you?
Speaker 1:It's not even fair yeah.
Speaker 2:This kid is going to be like it's. It's like you thought you had records. Goodbye, they're gone in 20 years, Just wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, if they, if they, if they have children, oh my God, like those kids are going to be recruited, like, if you're a college coach for-country track and field or cross-country skiing, like you're, you're throwing, you're throwing the bag, especially for, uh, what is the? Uh, what is what are they doing college football now that they uh give money to kids?
Speaker 2:anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope they, they just yeah, they're recruiting very anyway. So back to heather jackson. I do find it interesting, it interesting. The thing that confuses me about Heather Jackson is the inconsistency. Right, sometimes it clicks and sometimes it just does not click. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because she's like a dual to triple sport athlete I don't think she competes and try anymore but like big time gravel athlete, I don't know, sometimes things click and sometimes they don't. She's won this race before. So what you think like and not? And Tabor hasn't, and neither has Jen, so you'd think we'd have her up there, but I, like I said, I'd say at best third place. I also think, like I said, jennifer Lickner and Tabor Hemming are two ferocious competitors.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:You're talking like some of the most competitive women on the planet when it comes to these races, dude, yeah, and I don't know if Heather has that appetite to be able to swim with these sharks. Maybe she's. Maybe, like, this is just going to be a really fast stimulus because, uh, you know, before Western States also, it's a Hoka sponsored race.
Speaker 2:It was probably financial incentive to get on the podium.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Financial incentive to be there, so I don't know if they pay appearance fees and stuff like that for it. But I would imagine there's some sort of financial incentive to show up.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sure and I think that. Look, I think that what you said is the reason why I have Jen at the top and why we call her El Lobo. I guess, if it's what would be the feminine term for that in Spanish, would it be La Lobo. No, that wouldn't make any sense. I don't know. We're going with el lobo. I'm sorry, jen, for doing that, but the reason I say it is because when you're on the start line and you're looking her in the eyes, I'd be freaking terrified, terrified and look, I like it like crush you yeah, it had the jackson.
Speaker 2:You make eye contact. She's like medusa your legs are gonna turn to stone um, all right, so I got heather in.
Speaker 1:Third, I do have tabor winning, I think. I think, like I said, it's funny, wow, we have the matchup switch. Yeah, I think tabors is coming off such a solid roadblock that, like technical running doesn't matter for this, like.
Speaker 1:I think she's you know she really. And the other thing, there is some questions about Tabor. Tabor really wasn't pushed at all at Big Alta, like it was pretty easy dub for her, like she was going sizzler from, like literally the first five miles. So in my opinion, like I don't know, I'm curious to see Tabor get pushed, whereas like Jen really had some international competition at a trans grand Canaria. So I don't know, it's going to be fun either way. Whoever wins one, two, I think it'll be very close. I see them getting away from third. I don't see third being very close. I think this is Tabor, jen, within several minutes of each other, several seconds and then maybe five minutes out from Heather or someone like that. Oh wow.
Speaker 1:And fourth, I've got Hillary Arnslott, who's a Canadian athlete.
Speaker 2:And in fifth I'm going to throw.
Speaker 1:Kimmy Schreiber, who's another Terex sub-Ultra athlete. Yeah, I think there's going to be some good crossover for some of these Europeans, just because it's not a very technical course. It's all coming down to fitness and speed and the Europeans tend to do pretty well here, like they you know if they can just follow the course, then they're not gonna have too much of an issue.
Speaker 1:For some reason, they just like to beat up on us americans, so uh and then. Yeah, so that's what I got for the women. That's the top five. Um, the men's field is a little bit deeper. I think there's there's a lot to the men's field. Um, I'll let you take it away on what you think for the men's field.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll let you take it away on what you think for the men. Oh boy, yeah, okay, uh, man, so this is my my list here. Uh, this, might this, this, this is. I think the beginning is is very predictable. I got Hayden at number one. I think Hayden's taken the, taken the the win here. Um, I got Eli too. Uh, I think I think he's going to be behind Hayden. I think it's going to be very close. I think it's going to be very much like the women's race. We're going to have a very, very tight race there. Where it starts getting interesting, I think, is for the third place, and I believe Drew was a previous champion of this. I think it's hard for me to put him on the podium right now, because I think here's the thing right now it's for me for the podium, it's between Seth and Andrew for third, and then I'm rounding it out. I'm going to, I'm going to go in Seth, I'm doing it. I'm playing kids. Seth at third drew it forth and Nick handle and fifth.
Speaker 1:I like that. Okay, all right, mine's completely different. So I like this All right. So I do have Hayden winning and I think that Eli Hayden matchup like we've talked about 60,000 times now it's just going to be so close. I think it's either. I don't think there's going to be blow ups between the first two men, eli and Hayden. I think they're just so complete. You're talking about two of the most complete dudes in the sport, if not outside of Jim and Killian. These guys are right there and I'm really excited to see.
Speaker 1:To me, we've gotten a lot of good matchups this year. We finally got to see Killian versus Jim again at Chianti, and then we saw Vincent how does he match up in there? And Vincent, dude, he really showed that UTMB wasn't a fluke. That guy, that guy can hang um and like ran with killian the entire race. So I was thoroughly impressed with that matchup.
Speaker 1:And this is another one where we get to see eli, hayden and eli and hayden. So I've got hayden taking the win. I just think hayden is a little more complete and gets a little less rattled, um, and I I just think eli's like maybe one step back. It's gonna be so close, um, and it could very well be eli taking the win and beating hayden. I would not be surprised it. A lot of it depends too on like what part of the block hayden is in. Um. It might not just be fitness wise like maybe hayden's muscles. You gotta remember like hayden's muscles, you got to remember Hayden's getting ready for something like a Western States. It's a little bit slower of a race. Obviously it's a super fast runnable, but this isn't a sub-ultra race that Eli, typically, is going to be thrown down at the 50K and below, so that could be a small muscle. Dexterity could be a small amount, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So my third place I'm going to go with Cade Michael. Okay, that's, that's a, that's a. I think Cade is a young lion coming up in the sport. Dude's got a lot to prove. He should have been signed by a big brand last year and didn't. I'm personally a little miffed about that. I think he's one of the best new young, young cats in the sport um and should absolutely find a home, and I think this is an opportunity for him. Like I said, dude, he's been running a lot with Andy. I I, after seeing some of those splits on what he did with Andy, uh, going up gold Hill I was like man, these boys are fit, these are these boys are fit.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I, I would expect. Kate, I thinkade can definitely beat matt daniels. I think drew holman is it doesn't race enough and there's something called race rust and I think if you don't do it enough, sometimes you get a little. You know, like he's gonna be up there, but, like I, there is such a thing as race rust. I do think you, you know you might forget some things if you don't do it enough. Um, nick handel can hang. Seth ruling is a question mark. I, I don't know like I think what he did at black canyon was amazing, but I'm curious to see like, all right, well, how are you gonna hang in the 50k?
Speaker 1:you know like yeah obviously he trains with a bunch of these boys. Um, so, yeah, I've got kade michael in the third. I'm gonna go fourth, darren thomas. Um, that's a great pick. Yeah, darren had a very impressive big out.
Speaker 1:The 28k um, you know, if this was beneath a 50k, if this was like a 28k or somewhere in that range, I would pick darren for the podium. Um, he's, you know, he's a hit. He's hit and miss with the. I shouldn't say hit a miss. I don't think that's a very fair assumption. I think he's a little bit less good in the 50K and up distances. He's deadly at your VKs and stuff like that. He's so good and so uniquely talented. I wouldn't be surprised if Darren's up there in the top three. I just think that he's another young lion. He's hungry. He's not with Solomon anymore. He's got something to prove. He's running for himself now, which is a little bit different.
Speaker 1:He did take second in the 25K back in 2022. I think he goes and gets it done. And then in fifth place I'm going to go Jesher and small, who I think it was in 20. I can't remember it was 23 or 24. He took no, it was 24. He got second place. So 24 would have been right behind Eli and he ran with just a couple minutes off eli, which is pretty stout.
Speaker 1:So I think jess jess is very consistent, very solid athlete. He runs, I'd say, like out of the the highest race iq out of a lot of these guys. Um, I think jess runs very calculated, calculated races. He's very dialed um, and yeah, I'd say that. And then we've got a bunch of like I just wrote all names in there. So matt daniels drew Drew Holman, nick Handel, sven Hoche, who's another Terex athlete, german and then Seth Ruling. I mean, dude, like I'm not throwing barbs, but like Matt Daniels is just so inconsistent as of late, like dude, if you're running anything over 50k, like it's hard for me to bet with you. It's hard for me to bet with you Anything under that. Matt Daniels is so talented dude, sub four-minute miler, but why not just stick to sub-ultra? You're so talented in sub-ultra and ultra, just for some reason you just haven't been able to figure out for all these years. Just go sub-ultra and you're going to continue to have a great career. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes you wonder what makes those decisions. It, I don't know. Yeah, it makes you wonder what makes those decisions. It brings them in play. It's like, yeah, who knows, maybe he wants to get into it. Who knows? I do think that the comment, the Darren one, I mean that one for me. I was like when you said that, I said okay, because I see Darren as he's really the short runs type guy, but he does have it. He has the talent to come in there and do something. I would love to see Darren. He's such a nice guy, he's such a great guy. You know, he's just a nice, nice dude and he paints dogs.
Speaker 1:He paints dogs, that's so great I got to send him some photos to paint my dogs. I forgot about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you need to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's, he's. He's got a lot of talents, man, and I don't know, he's just a good dude and um, you know it's hard to bet against him. I just think he's, you know, I think you know. Now, after like, departing solomon, I think he's like I haven't spoken to him personally about this. I did dm about something else the other day, but like I, you know, I can't help but think like I would have a chip on my shoulder and I like, and darren is so talented that it's like you know, he seems to be having a lot of fun too and things seem to be clicking and like.
Speaker 1:And then going back to Kate dude, I just there's something about Kate Like some people just have that like factor about them and Kate is so talented and like just has the ability to hang with these guys. You know, and I don't, like I said, I don't want to be too harsh on someone like a Matt Daniels it. You know, and I don't, like I said, I don't want to be too harsh on someone like a Matt Daniels. It's just that like Matt Daniels to me is like was one of my heroes in the sport when I first came in. Like I really respect and like admire him and he's so talented, like his sub-form in it, myler, he's so good dude and like hasn't been able to put it together.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't be surprised, probably see someone that can like win the race. You know for sure. Um, but just like, what are you doing in ultra? Go, stay in sub ultra. You have the ability to compete at these series and alls and races like that, if you just put the time in. So, yeah, stop running the long stuff with staff and them go, go, go come on man.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you know I want to change my pick because you are right. I'm not going by my own logic here. Seth ruling is a better technical runner. Seth doesn't even get top five. We're throwing in, we're throwing in. Uh, darren throwing in darren.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, and seth, you know what dude? It's funny like I was just listening to. Uh, I I shouldn't be too biased because I actually really like seth. I know he's pretty tight with michelino and it's like I there's I don't know he's really talented, but again, like there's the inconsistency there where like he just has the win of his life at the black Canyon, um, and maybe that brought him up to a new level.
Speaker 1:And from a confidence perspective, I know he's dealt with some issues as far as um injuries over the years. You know, I don't know it's going to be interesting I wouldn't be. He's another one that could go win this entire race, like. I'm pretty confident that he can hang with eli and hayden. I know he's trained with both of them. So yeah, I don't know it's going to be one of those ones that, like it depends, um, you know how bad you want it and what's your race iq. I think that that comes down to like a lot of it, you know 100?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, absolutely. And I and I think they all like one thing I will say in like, in this kind kind of tying it into the 50Ks, I think people need to be very wary of the Canadian runners coming into this race. Again, I am a little biased, again working with Jasmine, but this is all I'm going to say these Canadian runners that are coming down here, they're big mad about these terrorists. They're up there, they're making lots of noise and I think that, look, here's the thing. They're going to come in and kick our ass. You think I don't know if it's they're going to come in and kick our ass, but I like the spirit, I like what I see in Canada. I want them to come in and I want them to like to really, really throw down here.
Speaker 2:And what I'm seeing is is that because we don't have like a lot of top 100 K, uh, uh, uh, I would say, like the, the, the female isn't like that, that, that deep, I think, for the Americans I should say, I think that we take Jasmine and if we make Canada the 51st state, she becomes our first honorary American runner. Um, and I think that, like she does, like I, I don't know I just think that we bring her over. We just we just we like draft her or something like that. Yeah, her on the team, yeah, we bring her in because we need that talent, we need that that pure unadulterated rage out there on the course running like because I, I. That's why I think that that she's coming and she's mad. She's proving a point. She says, you know, but really what she's doing is is she's showing that they have what it takes to be part of america?
Speaker 1:oh, man who is even all right, I gotta check this while I have you is like, who is the 100k in the 100k women? Jazz luther, priscilla forgi, emily hoggard and allowed emily hoggard could come out there, do something.
Speaker 2:She's, she's, she's starting to get real fast.
Speaker 1:Katie asmuth yeah, katie asmuth. Uh, emily clark. So there's a lot of, like, big names, but like people. Marianne hogan all right, that's a name that I'm interested in. Like does marianne hogan, because she's gotten on the podium of western states before. I'd be very curious to see what happens there.
Speaker 1:Achille henninger you know, dude, killy's an interesting one yes because she, um, you know, took a step back from ultra this year and it's like not a professional athlete anymore. She's a professional athlete, but like depends on how you define it in the sport, right, but like she doesn't have the pressure anymore of like having to deal with all that contract bullshit. So it's like, well, what does that look like? You know, like is she phasing her way out of the sport or is she just like feeling a little lighter in the sport? What would it like? I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:hey, yeah, and it's interesting because I actually so. When I saw her name on there, I was like OK, maybe, maybe. Look, I think that there's a changing of the God in the female side of this sport. We've seen it getting faster and faster on both sides. I just think that there's a new group of ladies here and that we are going to start to want to talk about making names for ourselves on races. I think that on the, on the ladies side, we're going to see a lot of that coming up here in in the in the next few years. We're gonna see some girls that are coming out of nowhere.
Speaker 2:That, I mean, like jen is kind of like one of them, you know she's just like this, this, this, this wild lady running around in the woods, and then they're like, hey, here's a bib in some shoes and then she goes and destroys everybody. So you know, I just think that going to, we're seeing a change in the God and and and, like all those older time, longer distance athletes, we're going to see them start fading off and we're seeing the Katie Shides, the gins of the world, um, they're coming in and I don't know. I mean, I think that you know the way I see it here. I'm looking at here, um, you know, even on the men's side of the a hundred K, all I know is that if that freaking lunatic, francesco Poopy, comes, in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, poopy's not going to win, he's going to poop out. Look, the thing is that I have a lot of respect for the people from the home country and everything like that, and I love Italy, it's beautiful, but that guy needs to get out of here. I don't like him at all. Really. I'm taking Eric LaPuma, rod Favard let's go america, let's show this guy get back to europe.
Speaker 1:We don't need you here, poopy we don't need.
Speaker 2:We don't need you get out of here it and like I like the name, francesco's a great name it's just like solid poopy. Come on, poopy, get out of here I was gonna call him puppy. I was calling him puppy for a long time and he corrected me said poopy yeah, but you got rod five odd the pitbull coming in, he's gonna rip your throat out, dude.
Speaker 1:What do you think about that? You think rod repeats. You think rod's for real, rod's for real? Yep, I think so too. I think rod like really figured it out over, like last year, just like like, dude, between western states and like and what he did at canyons last year, like and then like what was that? He just ran that santa barbara nine trials race that he just demolished. Dudes, rod is really good man and like has it figured out. I think it was like a lot nutrition was like a big factor that he started putting together and it's like yeah, this is one of the biggest names in the sport in the next few years, in my opinion yeah, and leave it up to the north face.
Speaker 2:leave it up to the North face to let him go to my God. What's going on over there? I swear it's like they let all the talent out the door. Zach Miller, who are you applying for next question? I'm just saying yeah, but it's a serious question because, like I'm confused to honestly, james, I know this is probably a topic for another, another podcast but my gosh, keep the talent. These people are world-class. Give them some freaking money.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I get in trouble for saying this, but I don't really care, probably no. So, dude, you know what man I've got. As someone that works in corporate finance, I do have to say this when private equity takes over something, so private equity you know, the vf corporation owns the north face, right, so there's a budget, all brands have a budget. But like when private equity private equity, in my opinion, just sucks the life out of things and that's that's a lot of. The issue is, like, when there's such steep budgets, like you can't pay someone like katie you know katie level money. I don't know how they, like solomon and emmer, was able to get like. Well, that's probably why there is no north american athletes on the solomon team anymore other than max king is probably because they that budget all got allocated to courtney, but that's totally like I on, I think, just like was able to come in and throw the bag and that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Um, this is interesting. So, like I'm looking at the um, there are some names dude, at the 100k, like you got poopy, I don't know. Poopy just like aggravated me because he just seems so confident. I don't know where I saw his interview at somewhere. He just seemed so confident that he was going to win this race. And you know what dude like? He's really good up into the 50k distance, but like I, he's a. He's like a delicate dude he's. I don't know if you've ever seen him in real life.
Speaker 1:He's a little guy and like I just, wonder if his like muscles and bones can hold up over that like long duration. Like, yeah, sure, like you need to be light and fit for you know he's, you know, a sub-ultra guy. I just wonder what that durability looks like over 100k. Um, I don't know, maybe I'm full of shit look, it could be, but I'd look at that.
Speaker 2:This is the names that I'm just saying right here. Look, I'm just Eric LaPuma, number one. Yeah. I'd love to see that number one Rod Favre, Anthony Costales, Jeff Morgavero Are you kidding me? These guys are world-class.
Speaker 1:What do you think about Morgavero? He's kind of hopped onto the scene in the last few years.
Speaker 2:Man I think that that guy, he's a Montana boy. You know he's coming Look.
Speaker 1:Top American in series, and all two years ago, like so nasty yeah.
Speaker 2:Last time I saw him he was running at Broken Arrow with Michelino down the snow.
Speaker 1:Oh, I forgot Him and Michelino have had some tight races. Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:They was neck and neck coming down next to each other and you see these two great runners sitting there next to each other just chatting, running fast as hell through the snow, and we're all just watching like how the hell do they do this? I think jeff's gonna be incredible. He's got an absolutely amazing career and he's a he's one of the schemo guys. So you know, he's got that fitness man. I'm saying francesco, look, you need to relax. You're going against some absolute freaking monsters here and I'm sorry, take, take your, take your yeah, you take your euro and get the hell out of here.
Speaker 1:This is canyons baby america what do you think about anthony costales? Do you think he's yeah?
Speaker 1:I thought yeah, I dude, it's kind of crazy because he's probably one of the most talented guys in the field and it's probably just being kind of counted. Like it's crazy what we do in this sport I was talking to a buddy about this yesterday like how we discount guys after they get injured and like they kind of go quiet on the scene and it's like, well, we're not going to count him in because you know he's injured or this, that and the other, when it's like dude anthony could very well come in and win the race too I.
Speaker 2:I think he could talk james I. He's one of those guys that I have on my list here.
Speaker 1:I put him on here for a reason. Dude and tom's like gym level, like close to gym.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know yeah, yeah, no, I I'm just wondering if you was petty like that. You go out there and you're like oh, that's cute, like yeah, and then you look at, I, the heart rate thing, I that's a topic for another day. I think that's the silliest things that you hide your heart rate. I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. This is not a recovery. Run, calm down, calm down, big guy.
Speaker 1:This is why I hate Strava. It's like people take it such to another level and they're so upset. Some people I see doing it really well, like my buddy, nick Tusa, who's been on the podcast a gazillion times. He just puts himself out there in the world and he doesn't really care, he's not looking at other shit, he's just putting his own thing out there and you know, and it's it's used for good and positivity and I really appreciate that, whereas, like that's what it's supposed to be. The other problem is, dude is like now that I have like I don't want to say a following, but like a small following, I don't like people looking at me for what I'm doing and that aggravates me. I don't want people like liking my shit and on my shit and like I keep it very private, my training, like just like brian whiffield says, like my training's for me and uh, that's why, like it's a very personal thing and I'm very dialed. Dude, I take it very serious. Is that butter? What is that?
Speaker 2:oh no, this is a bagel with an egg. So, uh, you know, you know, jake, my producer, um he is, he has now been fired from all the electronics and so now he just cooks um for me and brings me waters and things. So I got a bagel with an egg, you know, which is, uh, maybe one episode we'll do on nutrition, this is a very good thing.
Speaker 1:There you go bagel with an egg, are you? Are you running today? Are you working today?
Speaker 2:I'll just work in it. I'll probably run. I I'm always doing it. Take this, thank you, I was up. I'm always running, always, always trying to run. James, I'm not a fast guy, you know, teddy's not a fast guy. I'm just kind of going out there, I'm going cruising, cruising. I'm not like you, james, where you go, because, like you said, I would follow you on Strava, but it's terrifying. It's terrifying. I'm actually a would follow you on strava, but it's, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1:It's terrifying I'm actually a very boring follow on strava, because I don't know those things. Um, yeah, dude, I don't know. It's a. It's funny, I forgot what I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 2:Now you threw me off oh, we was talking about strava. Oh, I'm sorry, I just had a. I need to get my potassium. That's electrolytes is important. Actually, this podcast is brought to you by Celsius energy drinks. It would be really nice if you guys sponsored Teddy, because I need some. I need some money. Anyway, that's just a free pitch for them.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, all right. Well, listen man. Thanks for coming on. This is like a phenomenal race preview, uh yeah teddy, you're the man, dude, appreciate you no, james, you're the man.
Speaker 2:Hey, good luck to you. Uh, I don't know when we're gonna air this. Uh, I'm, I'm in and out right now of the of the studio, I know, and. But I appreciate you having me on and talking about this. I think it's gonna be great. Like I said, we'll be out there, maybe we'll get some reporting in and I'll keep the people updated on what's going on out at canyons. But this is an exciting race, big weekend man. I am excited for this sport because, james, tell me, is this sport the greatest sport in the world, or what?
Speaker 1:It's the best sport on earth. Man, other than I do like MMA, I like violence, but yeah, I don't know. This is a great sport too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe we add them both together at some point we have to get to the finish line.
Speaker 1:We can bam bam punches.
Speaker 2:I don't know, they do slap fighting.
Speaker 1:Think of like guys all right, what's your really quick before I let you go. Like if guys like in the race like holding hands, maybe they have to fight after um yeah, if they do that, if they do that, they are either they're either.
Speaker 2:They're either disqualified or you gotta fight disqualified, ineligible for racing ever again in your life and and subject to the, to the, to the, the, the, the basement of the internet, where all the cringiest things go, or or you fight it out yeah, yeah, the death to the death.
Speaker 1:To speaking of that, did you have you? Uh, are you gonna get michelino on yet, like, what's the deal there? Is he gonna come? Yeah, I, I don know.
Speaker 2:I just talked to him the other day. This is what's weird. Yeah, I think he was down in your area the other day he was.
Speaker 1:He was supposed to come on and then he didn't come on.
Speaker 2:Oh, I got my gripes. Oh, shocking, shocking. Michelino doesn't. And now he's evading it, and now he's dodging you. This is the thing that I find very strange about it is that his partner, jasmine she, requests the services of Teddy, and now I'm like Jasmine, your boyfriend's dodging me. Is he going to be there, or is he going to not miss the race too? I don't even know if he's going to be at Canyons, we'll see. All I know is that if I see him at Canyons, canyons we're gonna have I'm gonna sit him down, you're gonna have when I'm in an eight words, I'm gonna have words.
Speaker 2:I'm no, I'm tell I'm gonna put him on the podcast. I'm just gonna go, I'm just gonna go instagram live on and I'm gonna follow him around like james o'keefe and just pester him you should, you should.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good way to do it. Well, teddy, I'll let you uh get your shit in. Have a wonderful day and uh thank you, james thanks so much for coming on. Man appreciate you absolutely.
Speaker 2:Thank you, james, awesome brother what'd you guys think?
Speaker 1:oh man, what a fun episode. Really want to thank teddy so much for coming on. Uh, teddy is a is a national treasure. Uh, I definitely got to say that the man is a national treasure and, uh, someone will have back on for numerous occasions and times to uh talk about what's going on in this wild sport that we love so much. Before you guys get going, hop on Instagram. You can follow Teddy via Run Slut on Instagram. Give him a follow. That name is a bit egregious so he might be shadow banned, so I'll be sharing it on our stories as well. On top of it, you can find us on.
Speaker 1:You're going to be able to find the episode both on the Steep Stuff podcast on Apple Spotify YouTube and you're going to be able to find it via Chasing Trail on Apple Spotify YouTube as well. Give it a listen. It's good stuff. Yeah, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. For those of you not offended, yeah, give us a five-star rating review on Apple Spotify YouTube and if you were offended, I'm sorry, but I hope you have a better sense of humor than that. Yeah, guys, have a great rest of your week. I got some great stuff coming down the line for the next couple of weeks and I really appreciate it. I really appreciate you listening, I really appreciate your support and, yeah, have a great rest of your week, thank you.
