The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#94 - Devin Pancake - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection
For Devin Pancake, trail running represents much more than a post-collegiate athletic pursuit—it's a thoughtful 30-year journey he's just beginning. Fresh off his win at the Antelope Island Buffalo Run 25K and his selection for the 2025 Trail Team Elite, Devin brings refreshing perspective to a sport that often celebrates immediate success.
The conversation traces Devin's path from running a 4:00 mile at Utah State University to discovering trail running through iconic films like "Where Dreams Go to Die" and "Found on 49." Unlike many collegiate runners who turn to trails after burnout, Devin maintained a healthy relationship with running throughout college, crediting his coach for emphasizing sustainable development over grinding for immediate results.
Devin shares the surreal experience of racing alongside Western States champion Adam Peterman in his first ultramarathon, chatting with the elite runner for miles while pushing his own limits. This story perfectly captures his approach to trail running—competitive but joyful, serious about performance but equally focused on connection and experience. His willingness to return to Speed Goat 50K after a self-described "humbling" first attempt demonstrates his commitment to learning and growth.
What makes Devin's perspective particularly valuable is his balanced enthusiasm for everything from fast 25Ks to potential 100-milers and FKT attempts. Supported by the Trail Team Elite and coached by long-trail master Joe McConaughey through the All-In Collective, he's developing the skills to pursue both competitive excellence and soul-enriching adventures. His inspiration comes from thoughtful pioneers like Courtney Dauwalter and Jared Campbell, reflecting his own view of running as "a form of long-life meditation."
Follow Devin's journey on Instagram @devinpancake as he tackles upcoming challenges including the Desert Rats 21K, Speed Goat 50K, and potentially Sunapee Scramble Mountain Classic while preparing for his Uinta Highline Trail FKT attempt. His story reminds us that the most fulfilling path in trail running might be one that balances serious competition with genuine appreciation for the mountains and community.
What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and let's get into another awesome episode I've got coming for you guys. None other than Mr Devin Pancake, the 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection, is on the pod. We caught up with Devin just after his first place so his dub at the Antelope Island Buffalo Run 25K back at the end of March, beginning of April, and it's fun to have a chat with him, talk a lot about a bit his win, his motivators, what drives him in the sport, what he's so interested in doing. I know he's got some interest in the long stuff and the short stuff as well, so it's fun getting chat. We also talked about his upcoming race at the SUNYP Scramble, which he's stoked about, where he'll be competing at the us mountain running champs in the mountain classic. Uh, really fun episode. Really like devon, probably the best last name in all of trail running, not gonna lie. Um, yeah, this is a fun conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it without further ado. None other than mr devon pancake. It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Listen up, guys.
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Speaker 2:Good. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's great to finally have a conversation. Congratulations on getting selected for the Trail Team Elite this upcoming year for 2025. That's pretty exciting news, pretty awesome, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super pumped. Yeah, it's a pretty cool program that Annie started back in 2022. Um, I hadn't really. I didn't. I've heard of it, uh, leading up to me applying for it. Um, just like I've seen it before here and there, I wasn't really sure what it was or what they were about. Um, it wasn't until I met and went on a run with uh, garrett uh, cochran, I think that's how you pronounce his last name, sorry, garrett, if I butcher that Garrett the Parrot yeah, awesome guy. I ran with him and he was like, oh, you should, because he's been on the club team for a while. He was like you should go and apply and the application's done tonight, so you better go apply. So I did it and wasn't really expecting too much to hear back and the interview went great and makes it look to me and so, yeah, super excited and it's a great support that they put out and it just helps with that pipeline from, specifically, people and say, track backgrounds to trail running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure, man. Well, let's talk about that, let's dive into your running background we could talk about. Let's first talk college and then we can kind of talk about how you got into running. Uh, why don't you tell the audience like where you ran and what, uh, I guess, like on the track, like what distances, uh do you like the most, and specialize in?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I competed for five years at Utah State University. It's a state college. Not a lot of people know about it. It's near the border of Utah and Idaho in a town called Logan. It was a fantastic experience. I loved it so much. I really fell in love with the community there, the town and the program. When I was first looking at colleges I didn't even know, like, going into my senior year of high school I didn't even know that you could compete for, like for schools in college. My high school coach was, like, oh, you should start sending you know recruitment letters to all the different colleges here in Utah. So that's what I did and that's where I ended up.
Speaker 2:Um, the programs run by uh already golden, uh, my opinion fantastic coach, uh, um, but yeah, I specialize mostly in mile 800, three K uh on the track. I did do a cross country every season. Um didn't have as much success in cross country as I did in track Um, but yeah, specifically in a mile um the school record holder still for that events. Um was able to run four flat. Um just missed the sub four mark, uh, so uh. And then, yeah, I've really enjoyed 3k 800. Yeah, and just yeah, I've really enjoyed the program, really enjoyed, uh, the friendships I made there and it was a fantastic experience, super cool.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about your relationship with running, Like how did you, how did you get into it? Just like as a college or high school freshman, or were you even younger when you started getting into running?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started running pretty young, um, so I'm originally from Ohio, um, small town called Columbiana it's, uh, in the Northeast, and it was my. It was the middle school coach at the time who kind of it's a really small town. So if you know he goes and watches, you know gym practices and gym practices and everyone runs a mile. And he saw me and really convinced me pretty hard to come and join the cross-country team starting in seventh grade. So I did and that's kind of where it started.
Speaker 2:So I've been running for a pretty long time and I've really just enjoyed it all throughout and then I didn't really take it too seriously until I moved to Utah. I moved to Utah in well, it was when I was 15, so 2015. So I've been in Utah for almost 10 years now and the level of competition in Utah in high school cross country and track is pretty substantial for how small the population is and that really, and even the team I was on, I had guys I was chasing all the time and I was never the fastest, in any event on my team at any given time. So it was, you know, a great thing to be a part of and kind of opened my eyes to like real competition and allowed me to push myself super hard and get fast times in high school.
Speaker 1:Nice, let's go back to college, because it's interesting to me. I meet a lot of folks that compete D1 and a little bit below as well, and it's so crazy to me how many people have really terrible experiences in college, especially running at the track. You know track um. Was your experience a good one?
Speaker 2:it sounds like it was pretty good yeah, collegiate and specifically d1 running can be such a brutal place of existence for, like a lot of people and and it really just depends on the program that you're in and the style of coaching that you prefer and just the environment that you're in.
Speaker 2:At Utah State it's really well known for kind of taking more mediocre athletes and developing you slowly over the course of those four or five years that you're there for, um, which I really appreciated, because, um, there's other programs where it's kind of bringing you towards that edge of um your abilities, sometimes too far, and that leads to a lot of injuries all the like during my time there, um, it's all strength and volume, uh.
Speaker 2:So, um, during my time there, I was able to, you know, just slowly build over those four years and the most success that I had came in that fourth and fifth uh season that I had there. So, yeah, I think it really just depends on the program you're in and the social environment and expectations. Um, yeah, and yeah, the already is a great coach and really makes you appreciate running, like after you're done too, like there's a lot of my teammates who are still running to this day and that's not the case for a lot of people who kind of get burnt out pretty easily uh, during those four or five years and kind of hate running because, uh, you know all of the weight of expectations and bringing you to that uh edge of your ability kind of wears down on you. So, um, yeah, it was, it was a unique program and and yeah, it just made me fall in love with running even more.
Speaker 1:So that's so awesome, man. I'm glad you have a good relationship with it. It is so crazy, man, how many people are like, yeah, like I hated running, I just didn't, I wanted to quit. And then a lot of them either quit their programs and then, you know, three or four years later they discover the trails and boom, they become, you know, professional runner on the trail scene. For you, like what? What inspired you about the trails? What got you stoked on it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been a fan of this sport since and I was trying to today figure out when exactly I kind of discovered what trail running was, or at least competitive. I mean, here in Utah, like you know, when you're training, even in high school, you're going to go run on trails, just because it's, you know, so adjacent to the urban center that you live in, like, if you're going to run, you'll probably end up on a trail.
Speaker 2:Um, as far as, like, knowing about competitive, uh, trail racing and specifically ultra running, that came when I watched, uh, it was the found on 49 documentary story of good story of jim walmsley, fantastic and really like uh transforms my like view of running and uh, it was like kind of you know, like you know, foundational to uh like my love of the sport and uh, specifically, the love of trail running, ultra running. It started with that and then, you know, kind of went into the rabbit hole. After that I really fell in love with, like where dreams go to die, the Gary Robbins sparkly marathons documentary, and then I watched you know the race that eats it's young, unbreakable, the Western States 100,. You know that eats its young, unbreakable the Western States 100, you know just these really cool films that showcased you know the storytelling and like the humans behind these really weird events.
Speaker 2:And kind of watching these events I kind of was like what is this Like? Like who like what? Like these people are going out for a hundred miles plus and bringing their bodies to limit and and these people, you know, probably have a couple screws loose, and I really like that uh about the sport and uh about the people that do it. So, yeah, I kind of got introduced to it uh and influenced at a young age, um, by all these different films and uh books that I that I'd read um, like I read, uh, I forget the, uh, the name of it. It's, uh, it's the barkley book and the name's facing on me. But reading that and reading, um, what's the other book? Uh, born to run. So yeah, I still have not read born to run, I'm like adjacently aware of it, but not read.
Speaker 1:Born to run, I'm like adjacently aware of it, but I've never read it I read like what is it scott jurick's eat? I think it's eat and run book that he yeah there's quite a few popular ones out there, but I still have not.
Speaker 2:I think I I have literally born to run sitting on my bookshelf, but I've never picked it up, which is probably terrible but but yeah, so I started at a young age absorbing ultra and trail running content and I kept it up Like I kept up with the sport from there all through college and just spectating it Like I would watch like live Western States coverage, live UTMB coverage. So it's kind of it was really fun to follow along like different people's careers and see where they're at now. And yeah, that's that's how I kind of got into it.
Speaker 1:I knew and I knew like, uh, like, no matter what post-college I'm gonna go do trails, like it's just something I knew I really wanted to go pursue let me ask you this was it a little weird, then maybe surreal, last year at antelope 50k to be racing adam peterman and like giving him a pretty good fight, like I mean obviously? Yeah you know he ultimately won, but like still, like that's how you I became aware of you was yeah, because of that race, like talk to me about that like what was that experience like?
Speaker 2:it was okay. So the lead up to that race I'll start with when I graduated. I graduated in 2023, spring. All summer I was working a manual labor job for the Forest Service. Didn't do much running, kind of gave myself a break In the fall, just did basic mileage. Didn't really know what I was going to do. I thought I was going to go and try to run sub four again, solo training.
Speaker 2:Um got two months into that decided you know, this isn't making me happy I, you know, just need to hop into trails. Like it's something I've always wanted to do and it interests me and, and you know, a lot more than trying to pursue um, this track goal, um, this track goal. So went online, went on to ultra sign up looks for you know this is like in january of 2024, just trying to find some. You know, spring, early spring trail races saw the antelope island one. I was like all right, I'm gonna do the 50k um and just, you know, do an ultra. As my first trail race, um had only about like five weeks of training really like of a, of a training block where I started like specifically doing uh, like chasing elevation during weekend, weekly mileage and and so it was a very short train block leading up to it. Um had no idea who was in the field. I didn't even look at entrance um before.
Speaker 2:Uh, before getting up to the starting line, I remember driving in and parking and this other guy and what seemed like his partner parking next to me. And I see him get out and I'm like, oh man, this guy looks really familiar. And then he starts jogging around. I see that he's wearing a full on pro Hoka kit and I'm like, oh, I was like, oh, he's definitely sponsored. And I was like he looks so familiar and I didn't have time to like, you know, uh, my girlfriend, my girlfriend at the time, now fiance I was like didn't have time to tell her to like look up this guy. Uh and uh, you know as people coming up to him before the race saying hi to him, and then we start and two miles in we're running next to each other and we start talking and I'm like, uh, what's your name? He's like adam. I was thinking like, oh shit, like this kid just won.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I was like I was like, oh, I think this is adam peterman, because it's like you know, the two, two weren't clicking it. I was like, oh, what's your last name? He was like peterman and I was like, oh, no, I was like this. I was like I'm about to be brought to the, to the well, on my very first uh, ultra and I remember asking him like, did you win western states? And he was like yeah, and I was like I was like okay, uh, and so it was just a like surreal experience, like you know, just being thrown into the ring with, you know, one of the best in the sport, um, and it was kind of fun because you know, I'm a very chatty person, um, I like talking to people. So I just started chatting them up while we're, uh, you know, moving pretty quick Uh, and it was also surreal to see the difference of strength that I was lacking, especially in like uphill power of him easily pulling away, and then I would catch him back on the downs and the straights and it was a two-loop course, so that first loop kind of stuck with him almost the whole time and you know, I was chatting to him, getting to know about him, I was picking his brain about whole time and you know, was chatting him gets, you know about always picking his brain about winning western and what was what that was like and winning worlds and um, just sort of like his background and just getting to know him and, um, I think we're heading back out on the second loop and I was still chatting him up and it was like a slight downhill and I was leading and uh, pushing him a little downhill and I was leading and uh pushing him a little bit and I remember him like not talking back as much and I was like, okay, like now we're getting a little bit more serious and now we're.
Speaker 2:I was like, all right, now I'm racing and I remember still being there at like mile 20.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, like you know, if I'm still with them, you know, maybe I could try to win this, uh, somehow, um, but then another bit, the I think it's like the longest climb came back up and, just, you know, immediately gone and, um, kind of you know, slowly opened up a gap from there and then I hit a pretty big wall, like just over a marathon, started walking.
Speaker 2:At some points um was able to jog at home, but, yeah, totally blew up and that was on part, to you know, it being my first ultra and then also only taking about I think like five or six gels, uh, up to that point, um, uh, with like barely any feeling, so bonking incredibly hard and, uh, getting dusted by him. But yeah, we, you know, chatted after and got to meet a lot of people at that moment in the community, the solar community, and people like Mike Conigle. So, yeah, it was, it was awesome, it was fun to, to you know, go in a race against him as the first, my very first ultra. So, yeah, that was a fantastic experience.
Speaker 1:Dude, what an experience and so cool, Like because Adam's a really nice guy. Like did you guys like did you stay in touch with him? Like do you ever like reach out to him for pointers and stuff, or no, not like through DMs or anything.
Speaker 2:He knew that I was going to do Speed Goat that year. At that time he wasn't doing Speed Goat because he was still trying to return to Western. Then, uh, yeah, the only other time we talked was uh, at speed goat, like after the race. Uh, just briefly so uh, yeah, that's up.
Speaker 1:Opened up your first year with like 250ks. Man, was that what it was? 250, especially speed goat, speed goats yeah, yeah, technically three.
Speaker 2:So I did the antelope uh, that was in march and then end of may I did a rufa uh, I don't know if you're familiar, yeah, yeah, with that event that's uh started by jared campbell um running up for air. Um, I did the six hour uh event and this was at. It's called kive peak, it's um this uh pretty popular uh peak and trail in provo um, and I think it's it was around like seven, like seven point seven and a half to like seven to eight miles somewhere between there, uh per lap with about like 2800 feet um per lap, and I was able to do four of those within the six hours. So it equated to like just under like 31 miles with uh 11,000 feet and that was like in preparation of speed go Um, so technically you know, three ultras uh in the span of like five months um to start like my trail career. So, and then I also did uh just a fun little local um half marathon trail. Uh, that's kind of out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Nice, so you kind of opened things up in the 50K distance. Are you ultra curious more? Do you want to eventually go run 100 miles? Because I noticed you just ran Antelope 25K which you absolutely smashed. What was it last weekend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this last Friday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you a more sub-ultra guy or are you think you want to do more ultras like what's, what's? Uh, because you're so talented you could do either.
Speaker 2:yeah that's a fantastic question. Um, because I think about all the time, like, because I'm more drawn towards the longer distances, just because that's what I was consuming although I was starting back in high school, and that's what I was consuming all the way starting back in high school and that's what I followed throughout college. And I know it's you to go and do these short races and go rip it, um, cause I think that was probably where I'm more talented at is the shorter distances. Um, especially right now, like you know, I'm only 24 at this point and you know, I was only really like a miler, uh, back in college. So I have less, like you know, I was only really like a miler back in college, so I have less, like you know, inherent speed that I can use on these like short trails, especially if it's, like you know, nine miles or less.
Speaker 2:But it's not so much what I, you know, envision myself doing like long term. So I, you know, in the initial future, these next couple of years, I really just want to be doing both, like I could see myself doing a Cirque series and then hopping in a 100 miler. So I find both interesting and just as fun. And, yeah, at this point. Just want to keep it open to really doing anything.
Speaker 1:So that's the beauty of the sport man is you can do it all you know, and it's kind of fun. You can get greedy. What is I didn't? The beauty of the sport man is you can do it all. It's kind of fun, you can get greedy. I checked your ultra sign-up. I didn't see you signed up for anything, but that doesn't mean you're not. What do you? Got planned for 2020 for the rest of your stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in under two weeks I've got the Desert Rats 21K that's out in Farida, colorado, right on the Utah-Colorado border. I feel like it's good coming together of Boulder and Salt Lake people to come out and compete. Got that lined up. I signed up for Speed Goat 50K again this summer. As of right now, I am on the fence of coming up to Sunapee P? Uh and trying my hand at that. Uh, looking at the field, it's deep, it's it's so deep. Uh, so many talented people uh showing up there and I think it would just be fun to go and see how I size up in that event. And, uh, and it'd be really cool just to never been in New Hampshire before, so it'd just be a really cool experience. So, on the fence, about that I'm leaning more towards yes, do it.
Speaker 1:Um with experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and with the connection with Andy, uh, he could possibly get me, you know, free entry into the race. Um, so it's great to have, like that as a resource, um, and that support, uh from the trail team to be able to go and do that. So it's makes it easier to say yes to go and do that. So going to do that, um, yeah. And then, as far as you know, post speed goat, um, might do another Cirque series. I think there's the Alta one in August, if you know, if, if I'm not, yeah, if I'm not, you know, totally too, destroyed by speed goat again, um, because last year's speed goat was, uh, quite the humbling experience for me, like just a completely different behemoth as far as competition and then the ability wise, like uh, yeah, cause, like, yeah, last year's like top three was all like, uh, schemo guys. Um, dude davidson is truly like.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, unbeatable like it's insane like how good he yeah yeah, just yeah, it's in those steep mountain races. He, yeah, not too many people in the world that can beat him, uh, in those type of events and running himself about five hours at speed goat is truly so, uh like unbelievable, yeah, um. And then, as far as like, yeah, post-summer, um, as of right now, uh, I have plans to run a fkt. Um, it's called the una highline trail. Okay, it's uh about 80 miles, um, nice, yeah, and it traverses the una range. It's uh. I don't know if you've ever been out there.
Speaker 1:I've never been there, but I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I spent a summer there working, working a job out there, um, and really exploring the different canyons and mountains out there, and it, yeah, it intrigues me, um, and yeah, it's definitely not for the faint of heart. Not too many people have, uh, you know, gone out there and done it. Uh, it does have like a pretty extensive history though, and yeah gonna, you know, try my hand on it. So, along with the trail team, I have support from it's called the all-in collective. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, so this uh is run by, uh, joe mcconaughey. Uh, if you're familiar with Joe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, um, he started this. I forget what year he started doing this, um, but it's uh, him and I think six or seven other coaches, um, who provide one-on-one free coaching for a year. Um, it's like a running scholarship. So I applied and interviewed um and got it and he took me on. Uh, it's one of his athletes. I'm one of his other two athletes, um, that are part of this program, um, and along with that, they they sent us like a bunch of different gear, um, so, having him uh as a coach, uh, that's as good as it gets.
Speaker 1:Man like yeah, pretty man.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, pretty, it's like pretty awesome, and like I'm so stoked about it. Um, is, you know I I don't think I would attempt to go into, uh an FKT like this unless I had um him behind me, uh, giving me the the rundown of how to do something like that, cause you know he's the expert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's the long trail master dude. That's so cool to be able to do. I mean, first off, like I just love the fact that, like you, you've caught this beautiful dichotomy between competition, but also for going for this FKT, which is competition but it's also kind of soul enriching in its own right as well no-transcript ready for something like that, uh, come probably late August, september or somewhere around there.
Speaker 2:um, but yeah, I love, like I really want to be able to try to do those both styles at once of you know ultra competitive races where, um, you know you're racing against the best in the sport, but then you also, you know, can go out for adventures, like I love adventure runs uh, so much.
Speaker 2:Last summer I was just hitting peaks with my former high school coach while he was training for his first 100. And just going slow and moving through the mountains slow and exploring ridges and different peaks and new areas, I really, really enjoy just getting out there and appreciating it, because the Wasatch Range is so beautiful and so accessible. So, yeah, I just really like both worlds, um, and not too worried about, you know, sponsorships or money coming in at this point, just because I don't know. Just yeah, I'm just, I mean, and not too worried about it if it does or doesn't. I'm here for the long run and, um, love this sport so much and you know, this is like 30, 30 year plan I have for like, like, as I envision it's like my trail career, and just want to like, enjoy it and do things that you know interest me the most dude.
Speaker 1:I love your enthusiasm, man, like it's a really healthy place to be in. Like you meet a lot of people that especially come off the tracks uh, tracking the roads and like immediately want success and like a lot of them do find it, you know, because they they push and push and push. But like at the same time, like I feel like it's really healthy to just have this, uh, I don't know just like a long-term plan and be like, well, I'm going to continue to learn, I'm going to continue to improve and you know that's going to build the healthiest and kind of the best athlete in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how I kind of view. Where I'm at right now is just I want to be a student of the sport by participating in it and not so much viewing it. You know your peak performance and going and competing against the best, like I want, I want that in my career, but at the same time, like it's you know, doing that is exhausting and really hard and isn't so sustainable to do uh, all the time. Um and so, yeah, especially these first initial years of just kind of enjoying it and learning and not really having to worry about messing up because you know, you know failure is like the best way, uh, to like learn in the sport and uh and later down the road have success.
Speaker 1:And failure is almost guaranteed. It happens to everybody. Everybody has an off race or many off races, and it's all about learning. Actually, on this topic, I was going to ask you because you're going back to Speed Go, so I'm going to ask you what do you think that you will be able to have improved upon from year over year, like it will be fueling, will it be just strength and being able to apply that to different climbs? And you tell me, like what do you think?
Speaker 2:It'll be everything Like it'll be fueling. Especially, it will definitely be strength, like I thought I was doing good training and trying to do steep stuff, but you know, uh, there were. So there was like a couple of different factors. It was definitely the climbing destroyed me, um, in that race which I mean that whole race there's not really a flat section, it's all climbing and descending.
Speaker 2:It was the heat, um, that absolutely killed me. So, learning how to heat train and prepare for the heat better, um, that absolutely killed me. So learning how to heat train and prepare for the heat better, um, and then also just getting uh more up at altitude, uh, at where the races is how, already at altitude, like you know, here in the Valley, but getting up and doing hard stuff at that 8,000, 10,000 foot level. So it would be a bunch of different factors that I'll uh be prepping for and and uh, having to wait better, better, uh, building block into that. So, um, and I learned a lot during that, during that six and a half hours that it took me uh to finish that race and uh, yeah, it was a lot of time in your own head.
Speaker 2:Right, it was it was a lot of time in your own head, right it was.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of time and just, like you know, on that final climb we go up on that I forget the name of the Ridge, but you, the last push, uh, the second time you summit a hidden peak and just, you know, like stumbling backwards at some points, like uh just, and having like the top four woman, uh, in the race just zoom past me on this like final climb and just losing uh, spaces, uh, or like places every second, which is so humbling and so eye-opening about, like what I need to change for next year and I really wanted to come back to it because it will be, it'll be fun to compare and contrast what a year's worth of preparing and learning and preparation can do, and maybe I'll do even worse, who knows.
Speaker 2:So that's what I love about it. It's just the mystery of how I'll do at these type of events, of you know, how I'll do at these type of events and yeah, yeah, it's not even events that I think again I I probably perform better if it was a flat 50 K, you know, uh, or flat ish, you know rolling Hills. But I want to, you know, do these things that are kind of just mysterious and uh yeah, absolutely, and make myself really uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Uh, cause it's? It's just like a completely new sport almost to me, and and that's and that's what's most exciting to me, it's just I'm doing something completely different, um, compared to track and field and cross country.
Speaker 1:So super cool, super cool, dude, you gotta. You also gotta go soon to pay you, should you gotta. You gotta get that done, I think you have fun.
Speaker 1:They're just such a good experience. Like everybody's gonna be there. Um, even broken arrow man, you should try to get in there as well. Broken arrow is gonna be bananas, like yeah, it's. It's crazy that, like this is the year for like we're sent, gonna be sending like two or probably like just like a solid group of people to go to these Worlds teams. It's going to be nuts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll have to be insanely fit to make those teams.
Speaker 1:What are you running in these days? What kind of shoes do you like?
Speaker 2:I run in everything, so I don't have a brand that I pick. I like trying different brands, so I right now I have a pair of sock, any trail um the adidas super trail shoe that I've been using for races past two races um brooks, um I I really just go to the running store, pick a new shoe and see if I like it. If I don't return it and go something I know. So I really try to diversify and just try different shoes, because I I love like trying the different brands and I I've never really stuck with like a single brand, um, when it comes to running shoes.
Speaker 1:So no, I like that you gotta. I mean dude, it's like the best way to do it is to you know, because different shoes work for different surfaces, you know, like that the agrivic speeds are so fast.
Speaker 1:You know, that's like a for a flat or for something like your 25k at antelope island. You ran the other day like that's a perfect like shoe for something like that, whereas like if it was insanely technical, sometimes it's not so easy to run on that thing. So yeah, what do you think of that shoe? I'm just so curious. I've never tried it before.
Speaker 2:My buddy, nick, just got a set of them and he's like dude, it's like cheating, like they're so, so good but not stable at all it's the closest I felt to like vaporflies, like a proper, uh, road race super shoe, um, like I've worn the hoka, um, like I've worn the hoka x. What is the tectum? Yeah, the tectum. I wore the tectum twos, um, for a couple races, um, and, yeah, they have the carbon plate, but they don't have the same feel as like a vapor ply and these issues have that same feel, while still being, you know, a trail shoe. So what I, yeah, what I wear the tech, or sorry, the, the D to shoe like in that speed go type race? Probably not, uh, just because that race does get pretty technical and I would want something more stable. Um, but I really enjoy it Like, yeah, it I've've. You know, I've done workouts and and different races in like vaporflies and, yeah, it's definitely the closest feel I've had so far as far as trail shoes go to. That feel so interesting, yeah, super cool.
Speaker 1:All right, man, let's talk trail team. Um, I know you're you. Like you said before in the beginning, you're super excited. Um, are you going to be going? I know they have a bunch of meetups this year. I guess the grand Lake is probably the first one, or something like that. Are you going to be attending all that, are you? What are you? What's the stoke level, like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm super pumped so just because of, like, what they provide at those uh camps, uh, so I'm definitely going try to to make each one. Um, luckily, with my job, um, it can be pretty flexible. So right now I work for the state of utah. I do, uh, it's a gis work, it's digital mapping almost uh, I have a minor in gis actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh really, yeah, that's, that's awesome. So, yeah, I do gis work for uh, emergency management, okay, um, and it's nice because I work, I work hybrid Um, but then, like I've also talked to my boss about, you know, doing weeks where I'm like fully remote in different places and he's down for it. So I have that flexibility to, like you know, go to these different uh camps and events. So I'll try to make each one as best as I can, but definitely gonna, uh for sure, go to the grand lake one, so super excited for that. Yeah, it's just uh really cool and it's fun Cause, uh, we have, like there's two other people from uh Utah, yeah, uh, I think, oakley and Hawk.
Speaker 1:So have you bumped into Hawk yet? Hawk's a monster dude. I've never.
Speaker 2:I've never met Hawk now, uh, so good yet hawk's a monster dude. I've never I've never met hawk. No, uh, so good. So I'm planning, I'm planning on meeting up and uh running with him and uh, yeah, I definitely need to reach out to more people in the salt lake area. Uh, as far as going on trail runs, because there's lots of people I've yet to meet, uh that are uh just huge names, like in the area.
Speaker 1:So contingent is deep. Christian allen, christian, I was going to bring him up when we're talking about speed, but speed go like. Christian allen is such a freak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my god, yeah, and incredibly talented, probably hard worker and and it's it's cool because he you trains in the trails but a lot of his training he's with um uh yeah, like with uh Connor Mance and Clayton Young and that whole group.
Speaker 2:So, um, it's fun to see him, uh kind of balance and do both. And you know, go run a two, 10, uh marathon and then, you know, go and crush some trails. So, yeah, I go and crush some trails. So, yeah, I've never met Christian either. Um, so still a lot of people for me to uh meet up with and run with and train with.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, get ready, dude, you're going to be making a lot of friends this summer, yeah, um, all right, so do we're winding down now? We're at about 40,.
Speaker 2:That's a great question and I feel like the name that always comes to me first are a couple names in the sport I appreciate and love. It just comes from this deep love that I also share of the sport and what it means and what it can provide as far as finding yourself and going to these dark places and almost using it as a form of this long life meditation I really appreciate. And her approach to like training is, you know, one of a kind of just completely feel based and you know she's self coach, which is crazy and, yeah, just her overall philosophy. Um, to the sport, I have really appreciated and I've like absorbed all of her podcasts that she's been in and, you know, anything that she's written. So, um, that's one of the names that comes to the mind. Uh, like jared campbell, um, who I've never met.
Speaker 1:Legend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but reading all the stuff that he's written he's had a blog and just any interviews that he's in Just these really deep thinkers and people who come from a good place when it comes to the sport and wanting to make it better and are just lead by example, um, I really appreciate and you know, those are people who I want to be like and emulate and that's why I like right now in the sport of just kind of sitting back, uh, you know, doing research, appreciating uh where I'm at and just being a participant and eventually down the road, like I see myself, you know, wanting to host races, being a race director and kind of starting things that you know I am taking advantage of, like the trail team, like the all-in collective, because you know, it's stuff like this that really pushes the sport, uh, the sport forward and I'm so appreciative.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think those two and then just people like it I mean jim um from like even just a performance and again like a philosophy standpoint, um, someone who I followed his career um for a long time of watching all of his utmb attempts and finally getting it, when it's just a fantastic like storyline and really a testament to um how he takes failure and uh, like, doesn't really give up. So, um, yeah, just really the giants uh of the sports uh that I've come to really appreciate and look up to, and um, yeah, that's a beautiful answer, man.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of like you need some heavy hitters there, yeah yeah let's talk music are you big music guy? I'm huge music guy, big, huge music guy, yeah what's the song that's playing in your earphones before you like, maybe before you start a workout, or like a hype song what's like. What are you listening to?
Speaker 2:lately it's been a lot of uh, it's, you know, kind of a funky name. King gizzard and the lizard wizard is the is the name of a band. It's an australian, a rock band.
Speaker 2:Okay I say rock, but they've dabbled in just about every genre. Uh, on the face of the planet, they have a jazz album, you know heavy metal, uh, indie pop, uh. So they specialize in live music. I've been to a couple of their concerts. They're kind of, I mean, some people equate them. I mean I'm a deadhead too. I've been to a couple of their concerts. They're kind of, I mean, some people equate them. I mean I'm a deadhead too. I've been to dead and company concerts, but some people equate them to the modern day Grateful Dead. As far as their live music following, yeah, that's been playing a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm mostly into softer music too, just like the Bon Iver, the Sufjan Stevens type stuff Like I'll listen to, like incredibly sad stuff, like during my runs, which is kind of funny. I enjoy the nice calm stuff because, again, like this training and like this, sport is for me it's just a form of meditation. And then, like the sport is for me, it's just a form of meditation and um, yeah, so just a real host of different stuff. But yeah, um, big, big music and joy. I love going to see live stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be at Kobe court. I don't know if you've ever heard of that festival. It's a local salt Lake, uh, kobe, a kobe core, it's like uh, forget the actual name of it. If it's kobe core or something else, it's kobe something. I've been to it before um, where a lot of big artists come and uh, it's like a three, four day uh music festival. Um, but I'll hopefully be returning to this year because there's some some good bands there. But yeah, I love, love, live music, love music in general Nice, dude, dude, that's a great answer.
Speaker 1:I, that's another one. I've never heard of them. I gotta, I gotta, look, give me some things, notes to write down for things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, dude, thank you so much. I hope to get to see you at Soonipi. Man, Definitely sign up for that race. Yeah, Wish you the best of luck in your 2025 season. Also, yo go sign up for See if you can get an entry for Cirque Alta as well. I'll see you out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, I'll be looking into Soonipi. Hopefully I'll make it out there.
Speaker 1:I love your philosophy, man. Like just doors are going to open, so just keep with it, and I'm excited to see where your career takes you, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, I'm also excited and even if it doesn't, you know, I'm still going to be here in the sport, you know, for a long time. So, uh, either, either way, um, you know I'm here for the ride and I'm just super pumped and excited for you know what's to come. So awesome man.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, thank you for the conversation. This will be coming out next week. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Sweet yeah. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. Want to thank Devin so much for coming on the pod and having to chat before you guys get going. Hop on Instagram and let's get him some followers. You can find him at devinpancake and that's just simply spelled Devin D-E-V-I-Npancake, P-A-N-C-A-K-E. Just like the popular breakfast food, the pancake, so pretty awesome. Give Devin a follow, Send him some DMs, Let him know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure he'd love to hear your words of encouragement, as he's got a really fun, exciting season ahead of him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Hope you guys enjoyed this one. If you did enjoy it, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or YouTube or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would mean the world to me. That's how we can continue to share the stories of these amazing athletes as they continue along in their journey. And yeah, guys, one last thing this episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction. Ultimate Direction finally just dropped their new RaceVest 6 liter and UltraVest 12 liter in some beautiful colorways. This really aesthetic white and blue that I love. That's the one I've been using, as well as this onyx and green one, which is really beautiful as well. Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod for 25% off. They're already affordably priced, but you know what you steep steep stuff pod for 25% off and you're going to get yourself a superior product for your 2025 racing season. So enjoy, enjoy yourself, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you.
