#97 - Josh Potvin

Meet Josh Potvin, the Vancouver-based architect who's simultaneously designing buildings and carving his name into the elite trail running scene. Fresh off his victory at the highly competitive Gorge Waterfall 50K, Josh shares the fascinating journey that took him from track roots to mountain summits.

Josh's approach to balancing a demanding professional career with world-class athletic performance offers a masterclass in prioritization. "When I have to get my run in, I stop work and then go back later," he explains, sometimes returning to his desk at 9 PM to finish projects after training. This dedication extends to his preparation—sleeping in his car for a month while working remotely to acclimatize before races at altitude demonstrates just how far he'll go to overcome challenges.

The conversation reveals a crucial turning point in Josh's development: transforming his nutrition strategy. "I just wasn't eating enough," he admits, describing how working with a nutritionist revolutionized his performance by addressing persistent gut issues and increasing his sodium intake during races. This nutritional evolution enabled him to finally push through the final kilometers of races where he previously struggled with cramping, unlocking his full potential on the trail.

Josh shares insights into his training methodology, upcoming races including Broken Arrow and the World Mountain Running Championships, and his mental approach to competition. Whether you're juggling career and athletic pursuits or simply looking to improve your own trail running performance, Josh's thoughtful reflections offer valuable wisdom for navigating both the physical and practical challenges of the sport.

Follow Josh on Instagram @jjpotvin to keep up with his racing schedule and continuing evolution as one of Canada's most promising trail running talents.

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Transcript

Introduction to Josh Potvin

Speaker 1 0:00

What's up, boys and girls, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Mr Josh Potvin, hailing from Vancouver, british Columbia. Josh joined us on the pod to debrief and talk all about his latest win at the Gorge Waterfall 50K at Cascade Locks, oregon, which was a pretty highly contested, very competitive race. Yeah, really fun conversation, like honestly, josh is a great, great person and very inspiring to learn from. Josh talked about balancing life as a full-time professional in his big boy job, in addition to kind of balancing that life between training at a very high level Talk. Talked about diet and just dietitian and working with a dietitian and how to zero in and kind of hone in your nutrition on race day. We talked about training theory. We also talked about worlds Josh was a competitor on the 2023 InSpruck team for Team Canada and just what he learned and what he's going to apply this year as he'll be racing for Team Canada as as well at the world mountain running championship in the pyrenees. Really fun conversation. We also talked a lot about golden trail and just preparing for those races. Just had some great finishes last year, both at mammoth trail fest as well. Um, headlands as well.

Speaker 1 1:17

Um, yeah, hope you guys enjoy this one personal favorite episode of mine. I know I say that about a lot of them, but this is this is a good one. I really appreciate it if I have Josh on the podcast and let me help tell his story. So, without further ado, none other than Josh Potvin. It's time We'll be right back. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Listen up, guys.

Speaker 1 2:36

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Speaker 1 3:14

Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod Again that steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced, but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom. Get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think. Josh Potvin, welcome to the steep stuff podcast. How are you man Good? Thank you, james. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 3:43

Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 3:43

How's your day going so far? Happy Monday.

Speaker 2 3:46

Yeah, you too. It's a rainy Monday in Vancouver, which is pretty typical, but it's going good, Full work day and I'm excited to be here chatting to you.

Speaker 1 3:55

Very cool, Very cool. Well, I'm excited to have this conversation. It was honestly spur. I was like we got to get this guy on the podcast. So congrats on your win. We'll talk about the race in a little bit, but, uh, maybe for the audience that, um, maybe give me like the five minute elevator pitch on your relationship with running, how you got into running and things like that.

Speaker 2 4:19

Yeah for sure, yeah. So um, I've been running since like grade four, to be honest, pretty much my whole life, competing with a coach since grade seven. So I've been running track and field cross country since I can remember. So it's really been a part of my life in some shape or form, whether it's, like you know, on the track, the road or cross country or playing other sports through soccer or other other ways of of movement. So I've always kind of it's always been a part of me. Mostly that came from my mom's side. She was an 800 meter runner and it just that's. That's where I started to like the shorter, shorter distances.

Speaker 2 5:03

I come from like a more of a speed background, track background, growing up and competed in college, university, at Queen's University, so I spent my years there competing both on the varsity track team and cross country team at many national championships and then, following my move out to British Columbia so I'm originally from the East Coast, from a small town, thunder Bay, so I spent most of my time training to British Columbia so I'm originally from the East coast, from a small town, thunder Bay, so um spent most of my time training and running out there and then I moved out to BC and, uh, slowly started to fall in love with the West coast mountains and the, the what you get to see out here and the running out here, and made my progression to to the trails and in a very kind of slow but interesting way, it was always like calling to me and and I just finally decided that it was time for me to jump into the trail world. So it's really been a really big part of my life.

Speaker 1 5:53

Wow, and it's been a seamless transition. I mean you've competed at some of the biggest races on the planet. I mean ran at Worlds as well and you've had quite a career in the last few years, so it's exciting to follow along. I'm pretty impressed 24th both at mammoth and at headlands. How'd you manage the same position in both races? That's, that's impressive. Like I couldn't do that if I rolled dice like yeah, thank, you.

Speaker 2 6:15

So I, uh, I actually ended up spending a month like I went to mammoth um two years ago as well and the altitude ruined me. Like coming from vancouver, we're at sea level. I showed up. He showed up a day before and I was just I, I just had the worst race. So I was like you know what? After the race I said I'm never going to race at altitude again. And then a week later I was like you know what? I need to go back and I need to like, I need to challenge myself and and get the most out of it.

Speaker 2 6:41

So I spent a month in in California, uh, in Mammoth Lakes, leading up to that Um, just full training. I rented an office so I can work remote Um, so I could do my job and then just train. So I slept in my car for a month, uh, showed up to the office for the day, did my work and then hit some, hit some kilometers in the trails for the evening. So I really did as much as I could to prep, prep those and, uh, go into it ready.

Josh's Running Background and Journey

Speaker 1 7:04

So dude, I love the all-in approach. Like I feel like, in order to especially golden trail series I mean, like you, you can speak forward to it because, like, the golden trail series is one of the most competitive, if not the most competitive series on the planet right now. So, in order, I feel like, in order to perform at a, you know, at a top level or do well there, you almost have to go all in at this point, especially for an altitude based race. So it's got it's, it's got its trade-offs right. Like I feel like, um, especially as a guy that lives at altitude, when I go down to sea level, it's like I have to. It's always about power generation and being able to, like, get that speed and that top speed compared to UC level guys. But I feel like when you guys come up here, I don't know if the ability to breathe is just not as easy for you all. Yeah, it's a challenge, for sure. Yeah, and fueling too.

Speaker 2 7:45

I find the fueling is always a hard one when you get to altitude. That was such a fast race, like so speedy. What did you? What did? What was your takeaway from that race? Probably same thing, just so fast, so brutal, intense.

Speaker 2 8:15

Oh, right from the right, from the gun, it was just. It felt like a cross country race. It started, you know it. Actually it kind of felt normal because you know we started on this grass field, you run through a shoot, just like you would in cross country, and then you transition to like a steep into a trail. So it was actually quite familiar. But uh, from the gun it just felt like we were. We were nonstop um, which made for a quick day. And um, that day I found like I just had the legs to keep climbing, even in those late, late, those late climbs in the race where others were struggling a bit. So I was able to, you know, keep strong, which I was happy about, um, and that was probably mainly due to my like I was. I did a 50 K training like weeks up to that, so I was doing much more 50 K training versus like this speed. So still, I struggled a bit with the speed but, um, you know, I managed to pull through.

Speaker 1 9:04

You did a great job, man. All right, let's uh, let's roll into a gorge, cause I feel like that's that's the topic of the day. Dude, you beat Liam, you beat some, some studs Like I was really impressed by their performance and that's not an easy course to perform well on. Like it's semi techie it's. It's it's fast in some sections and slower than others. Um, my wife ran the race a couple of years ago, so I got to play on the course a bit and I was like, ooh, I gotta come back and race this one day. Um, maybe talk about how the race went for yourself and like how it played out, especially strategy wise, like what kind of strategy you enacted for that race. And, um, yeah, I'll ask questions from there.

Speaker 2 9:39

Yeah, it's interesting. So, leading up to gorge, I actually focused more on like half marathon training, uh, so I did a half about a month before, which was a personal best for me on the roads too. So I kind of really actually spent a lot of time on the roads. Uh, my wednesdays were were full track sessions or road sessions, and then I did two big, long, long days on on on the weekends. So, um, a lot of speed leading into this one, just knowing that that's my strength, and there was probably a lot more runnable section in that race that I'd I'd be able to to take advantage of that Um, so definitely a lot more speed than I would in some other you know, trailer mountain races.

Speaker 2 10:20

So, similar to like going into Chuck, and I did something similar the year before, uh, which I found really really helped, um, so that was kind of like the main, the main focus, um. I feel like, um, nutrition too, was a big one, just like really trying to dial in my nutrition leading up to this. So about a year ago I kind of really flipped around my nutrition and how I can improve that, and I'm working with an awesome nutritionist out here, uh, caroline. So that was kind of a big game changer for me and really pushing the nutrition game to to, you know, push my limits a bit.

Speaker 1 10:56

Maybe, maybe unpack that a little bit for me, just because I know a lot of people that start working with nutritionists and it's, it's literally just from a hydration perspective and just like what, from a dietary perspective, like what? What was the switch that flipped for you? Uh, that helped so much.

Gorge Waterfall 50K Victory

Speaker 2 11:09

Oh my gosh, there's a lot I had. I had so many gut issues like in like when I started doing 50 Ks and these longer distances I I struggled a lot with with just digestion and even leading up to the race, and I think a lot of it is just like nerves, like a a lot of it is just like nerves, like a lot of times you just get so nervous your gut goes sideways and um. But leading up probably to this and also the last year I've, I focused on not just race day and pre-race nutrition, but just like eating more in general. I just wasn't eating enough, like I, just as an athlete, didn't realize how much I needed to eat. So just eating, you know, all day long, before and after workouts and the right, the right fueling too was was so critical.

Speaker 2 11:46

So I flipped that side from where I was doing before and then, just just in terms of racing, more carbs and a lot more sodium I just found I I needed more. I needed more sodium than I than I thought, and started avoiding all those cramps that would happen, those longer 50k races, so able to now, like I find, to get the most out of myself, whereas I wasn't able to before I would always be the last. Like 10, 12 K, just legs were cramping, things would kind of go sideways in the gut and I just couldn't get the full out of myself for that day. So it's just really, really helped me to kind of like, really push that. Next the next level.

Speaker 1 12:20

Yeah, it's amazing, like what it does for some folks. Like you're, you'll compete, obviously you'll be competing at a high level, and then all of a sudden you'll kind of flip that switch and figure out the nutrition and it's. I mean, rod Farvard is a great example.

Speaker 1 12:32

There's quite a few gentlemen and ladies out there that have like been able to change, turn that corner, and what an amazing difference it's made in performance. I got to ask you. I read an article about you going into this podcast and it was about, I think you'd said you'd made your own gels, or you would make your own gels at one point in time, do you?

Speaker 2 12:47

still do that, or no?

Speaker 1 12:48

No.

Speaker 2 12:49

So that was like when was that? 2020, maybe 2021,? When I first got into trail running it was just so expensive. I was like, oh, maybe I'll just make my own gels. It was like jam, maple syrup and pot some salt in there. It was really basic. And then I stopped doing that because it was after I did the Squamish 50K. That's how I trained and that's how I race and I totally forgot to put the sodium in it. I had the worst day of my life and I was like, okay, I never again. I just need to go with the expensive $5 gels and pay for it.

Speaker 1 13:20

Spike a bullet I feel you on that man when I started using was recently and this is not an ad or anything but like this company called blanks sports nutrition. They're like base and Flagstaff. They like make gel mix that you can like buy and you can actually like tweak the amount of carbs and like you can tweak the different like things you want in it and they'll make it for you and send it to you and it's cheaper than gels. So I've been using that and it's like a hydrogel mix Interesting.

Speaker 2 13:45

Cool.

Speaker 1 13:45

Yeah, and it's like, and it's environmentally friendly, it's like reusable, so like you can use their little package that they send you. It's like a high, like a hydropack, a little flask.

Speaker 2 13:57

I just fill those up a couple of them and I'm good to go. Yeah, have to burn through, like every run, so it's nice to find ways to to minimize that, for sure. For sure.

Speaker 1 14:06

All right back to gorge. I gotta ask you, like, how did the race play out for you? From the gun? I know liam is a very aggressive racer, so like how and and um. I think a lot of the guys up front with you were are known to take it out. Uh, in fact you had, I think was 100k performer, 100k champion was in the race with you as well um, yeah, yeah, adam that's Adam, that's right. How did it play out? Um, and yeah, what was the strategy?

Speaker 2 14:31

So going in, like going into that race, my like, my strategy was to just like hang with the leaders, like I, I wouldn't. I wasn't going in with the mentality like, oh, I'm going to push this lead, this lead, uh, but kind of right from the gun, I just it was no one really was really pushing the pace and I just found the climb was easy. So I I kind of just I started to go out from the lead and, and with liam there too, and um, we kind of both just kind of pushed that that first climb, um. But that's not how I went, that my mentality, I didn't want to do that. I was like, okay, I'll stick, I'll stick with Liam.

Speaker 2 15:06

I know how good of a runner he is, I know he's strong, um, but maybe on the day he just, you know he is a 50 K, it's only the second one Maybe he potentially just felt like, okay, let's just hold in there and see, see what I have for the guy, cause he's fast Like I couldn't, I couldn't let him, I couldn't let it be an outkick at the at the end. That just wouldn't probably go in my favor, so interesting.

Speaker 1 15:31

Interesting. So from the start of the race to the gun, like, was there any decisive moves made for you? Like, towards the end of the race, we were like I'm getting away from him and I'm building a lead, or was it just slowly?

Speaker 2 15:42

Um, it was kind of four of us. From the first climb up to mile eight, one of the fellows I don't remember his name, I think he ended up finishing fourth or fifth Took a bit of a lead on the downhill. And I looked back and Liam was kind of like lingering behind me and I was like you know what? I'm going to be smart here and save my legs on this first descent. He did the same.

Speaker 2 16:03

And then, leading up to that first aid station, um, that's kind of where I started to put a move and I think they all stopped for fuel. I kind of planned it so I didn't have to um, so I put a bit of a surge there right after that that mile eight aid station and liam ended up catching up. But post race he said like he had to work to do that and so I think that was smart, just just to like get a bit of uh on those on that group. And then the other two, adam, and I can't I apologize, I can't remember the, the other fellow's name but um, yeah, we just we just didn't see them after that. So it was really just like a a break in the race. And then from that point, liam. I just kind of like pushed each other back and forth pretty much the whole way to the final descent Um wow, what was it like when you crossed the finish line.

Speaker 1 16:48

Just a late mint joy excitement. You had to talk to Dylan Like what was that?

Speaker 2 16:52

Yeah, honestly, that's a new feeling for me. Like James, I I'm not. I like I've been to a lot of these big American races and I'm usually top 10, um, at the best. And you know I've always go in sights of a podium, like that's always my goal, and that was a new feeling for me. And you know the I think the feel, the best feeling, was the last aid station, because when I hit that aid station and I saw my crew I had awesome crew there. I had Harley, my friend, was crewing me and I can just see his excitement and I knew I was going to win that race.

Nutrition Strategy and Race Approach

Speaker 2 17:25

I just like, from that point I felt I had a lot to do. Still, it's still like 5k to go, but, um, I knew like I could, I could push in and take that win and, um, coming to that finish line was, yeah, like it's so hard to explain, Like it's just, I would just. I kept repeating in my head all week it's such a good feeling and it's what you race for, right, like it's it's why we, we do this, for those like short, short moments, is is what we, we push for. So it's, yeah, it was, it's such a great feeling. Well, congrats, man.

Speaker 1 17:55

Did you get a long chat with Dylan after? How did how did that go?

Speaker 2 17:59

Yeah, a little bit right at the at the finish line, I guess Dylan and bit um right at the at the finish line, um, I guess dylan and I'd never really met before um, so I was happy to be able to chat to them at the interviews and a little bit after the race. Um didn't, unfortunately couldn't stick around for their little after party, had to get in the car and drive back to vancouver to to make monday, monday at the office, but, um, it was. Uh, yeah, I got. I got a little bit of time to chat to him, which is really, really exciting. Such a nice guy and they do such a good job at hosting and showcasing the athletes, which is so appreciated For me most people haven't heard of. It's just really nice that they do that. I appreciate it a lot.

Speaker 1 18:37

I think that's my favorite thing, man is, like you said, the showcase. It's the ability to give you guys your shine and kind of get athletes the spotlight on the athletes after their performances. Um, free trial does an amazing job with that. So I think it's uh, it's cool to get get folks, uh, you know, get everybody their shine and give everybody their flowers. So, very good, I gotta ask you, man, so you've got a big boy job and you compete at a very high level. Um, I've always found that to be very challenging, trying to make time and balance for both. How does it work for you, like, how do you, how do you manage everything?

Speaker 2 19:08

Oh my gosh, yeah, it's. Uh, it's definitely hard. Uh, I'm so, I'm an, I'm an architect in in British Columbia, so I work a standard well, I shouldn't say it's a standard nine to five it's. It's usually never that case's it's. There's a lot of overtime, just given the, the consulting world.

Speaker 2 19:23

But, um, it's just like prioritizing is a big thing and, um, you know, when I have to get my run in, I I'll stop work and then I'll get my run in. If I have to go back to work, I'll go back and sometimes I'll pick up at 8, 39 at night and just get a couple hours and get it done. And but lately I've been prioritizing making sure I always get sleep, always get eating right, and then just making sure I get the run in and then fitting the work and around that. And work has been like so accommodating to, to allow me to to do that, which is, which is great. Um, and obviously I have a wonderful partner, suzy, who, who supports me and like I'll come home and dinner will be ready, and like these things can't happen with everyone around you. Um, it's, you know they, they go unrecognized sometimes when, uh, but you gotta thank them.

Speaker 1 20:11

Yeah, no, that's an amazing answer. It takes a village man to be able to do it. It's not not an easy thing. Now I know you've got broken arrow on the start list coming up. Are you going to be? Are you going to? Are you like, are you going gonna go out ahead of time? Or like, what's the plan? It's a plan um for this one.

Speaker 2 20:25

I can't, unfortunately I just I. I would have you know. I think I would have liked to, but it's just with uh, broken arrow. I'm doing speed go and then worlds in the in this in september. There's just too much travel on my, on my calendar, so I'm flying up, you know, a few days before the plan is to do like a heat training block to simulate as much as I can, um, but it's uh, that's going to be the focus for me, um, leading into it.

Speaker 1 20:50

Let's talk about training. I think that's something cool to dive into. Do you work with a coach or do you self train?

Speaker 2 20:55

No, I have a coach, uh, dylan Weix. He's a ex Olympic marathoner, canadian marathoner, um London Olympics, iics, I believe. Um, but yeah, great, I've been working with him since 2017. Um, no trail background, no trail experience, so I kind of forced this on him when I, when I kind of switch from like the roads to the trails and he's been awesome to just transition. But he has the. You know, we work as a team. It's not like he sends me the workouts. We kind of go back and forth on what, uh, what, what, what I need to improve on and, uh, it's more of like a team relationship than it is just like someone telling you what to work, to do, which is which which has been working really well for us. So that's awesome.

Speaker 1 21:36

Now, obviously I mean you guys super dial. I mean you ran a fantastic half marathon. I saw some of your results on that and I was blown away. But like in your lead up, um, I mean you could say like for 50 K or maybe even for broken arrow if you want to give a little bit of it away. But like you had mentioned he training, but like, what are you guys doing? Like what's the meat and bones Like? Are you like three, three workouts a week, two workouts a week? Like what's the general structure of what he's got you doing?

Speaker 2 22:00

Yeah, it's usually two. Two is like a midweek, wednesday is usually like something with a little bit more intensity, and then Saturdays will be something a little bit longer, with some, you know, could be some hills or threshold built into the run, and then Sunday is a long run. So a lot of times it's like Saturday. Sunday are like two big back to back runs. Sunday are like two big to back, big back-to-back runs, probably like 50% of my.

Speaker 2 22:26

My weekly mileage is on the weekend or if not more, which is maybe a little bit unusual because, you know, but it's the only, it's the best time I can get the amount of running in versus the week. You know, I just have only have so much time. So I played with doubles in the past and doing like double runs, but it just, you know, it comes down to balancing, like recovery and sleep, with everything, like you said, like we're talking about work and just having to balance all that. It's. You sacrifice a few of the things for quality and and just try and really make every session quality is kind of the goal.

Speaker 1 23:00

Yeah, it's trying to get the, it's it. That's the thing with doubles is tricky. Part is like how do I get the most bang for my buck in this one? And then do I jump on the bike? Do I roller ski? Like what do I do? It's tricky. So when you do your speed work I'm just out of pure curiosity, just because I love training theory Do you hit more roads? Are you hitting the track at all? What do you hop on?

Speaker 2 23:38

flares up, I just end up with all these like things. That kind of like start to kind of bug me a bit. So I tend to go on the roads more. But, um, you know, if I really want to dial in a session every once a while, I'll get on the, I'll get on the track and so I can hit some splits and it just allows you to remove the like all those barriers and just really focus on quality and speed. Uh, but most of the work is probably on on the road, um, um it. I wouldn't normally go to like gravel paths or anything, just because there's not a ton, especially where I'm living, of a flat terrain. I live right, right, pretty much next to the mountains, so it's, it's uphill or or or on a, on a, on a flat road section.

Balancing Full-Time Career and Elite Training

Speaker 1 24:13

Oh, wow, well let's talk about that a little bit. What is, uh, what's it like, training in North Vancouver? Like, are you able to?

Speaker 2 24:23

anytime you want to get like a long run in or a good solid mountain access, you have that ability. Oh yeah, it's phenomenal, it's I I'm. I live a little bit more in the city side so I'm probably be like a 10 minute run to some. You know you gotta hit the urban trails to the trails and then you're in the mountains, but a 10 minute drive and then you're. You can hit endless amount of trails, um, very technical trails, so it's not like you know these california super butter trails.

Speaker 2 24:45

That or or maybe colorado is probably similar, I'm not sure uh, a little buttery and some little buttery, yeah, um, but it's really rooty, rocky, technical, like most of it's like mountain bike trails, like the technical Most of it's mountain bike trails. The North Vancouver is known for these crazy mountain bikers and it was built by that mountain biking community, so it's just some really really gnarly terrain. So it doesn't make for smooth running, it just makes for actually quite hard running.

Speaker 1 25:11

Gotcha, gotcha. Actually, that actually begs a question. So, like Broken Arrow for instance, as you start getting more, I guess specific for Broken Arrow. Some of Broken Arrow is technical. I don't find Broken Arrow to be particularly technical. I feel like there's a lot of road sections and stuff like that. Will you start to layer in more of that?

Speaker 2 25:33

I guess you could say just super rooty, techie stuff beforehand, or are you just going to just try and build as much fitness as possible going in? I'll definitely add more vertical into the, into the, in more hills, um, still keep. Uh, actually, me and my coach were talking about this last week, just like, what is the strategy here? How much, how much running and you know, track work or road work do I keep in midweek?

Speaker 2 25:51

Because it's, you know it's it is important, you got to be fast and especially for those types of races, you still need to be, you need to be fast. So, so it's a balance of of the both. But you can't go to a race like that without getting the vertical and descent and the descending in your legs, just to have that, um, to be able to do it, cause it's two climbs, right From what I I need to do some research on that course, but I understand it's two climbs, so, uh, it's gonna hurt the second one for sure, so you need to be able to handle that it's, it's brutal two loops and you know I, I think it's.

Speaker 1 26:21

You're smart 100. You're definitely smart for doing the heat training block because it feels like at least the last few years people have gotten cooked man from the heat. The heat's nasty there, so yeah, yeah it's definitely, definitely good. Are you a big sauna guy, like for recovery? Are you cold punch sauna guy or like what do you do?

Speaker 2 26:36

for Not that I'm not, I just um, I just access. We have some community centers that here around in there that have a sauna, but I've been doing just a hot bath. Just go neck deep in the hot bath. It's pretty uncomfortable, but that's been my, that's been my strategy.

Speaker 1 26:52

Dude, I do the same thing. Do you ever put? I put salt in there, I throw it.

Speaker 2 26:57

It's great for recovery, it's good for relaxing. Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.

Speaker 1 27:00

All right, let's talk a little bit more broken arrow. Like that's going to be such a competitive race, man, like that's, that's kind of our one of our super bowls this year, as far as just the world mountain running scene side of worlds which we'll get to. Um, what's your excitement level for that race are you ready for? I mean, because it's like a gold. It's pretty much a golden trail race without you know, without actually being one.

Speaker 2 27:22

So totally yeah. No, I'm pretty like this. Leading up to this year, I was thinking, okay, what is the, what is the challenging race I can think of? And I was like broken arrow, it's at altitude, it's hard. Um, that was like the first thing. I was like, okay, it's american qualifier for, for, for for world, so it's gonna have a field that is gonna be you know deep. And I was like, okay, this is the, this has got to be the race that I wanted to go to and, um, yeah, kind of putting myself into the, the deep end there, yeah, but that's the way to do it.

Speaker 1 27:53

So, well, it's like, I think, 100, because it's like, all right, you already achieved this level and you gotta be so confident coming out of gorge. I mean, you beat some really fit dudes and some some of the best mountain runners on the planet, which is amazing. So I you gotta have the confidence going into broken arrow, I would imagine.

Speaker 2 28:08

So Right, maybe I'm hard on myself, but there's always ways to improve and, um, you know, like it's, uh, definitely, definitely, that race gave me some confidence, but, um, I, I, that doesn't. I know how cool, I know the quality of the American athletes and, um, you know, you got to show up on the day, so I'm just going to go there and put the work in and then show up and hopefully that all all comes in my favor. But, um, yeah, I am excited for it, though. Super cool, super cool.

Speaker 1 28:39

No, I love your approach to it, man. I got to ask you the goal question. So, like, everybody's got goals, everybody moves their goalposts on on. You know, once they achieve something they move their goalposts a little bit like down the road. Obviously you have a full-time career, like it's it's. You know everybody has a different approach as to the way they do things. Like, what is your goal in the sport? Like, do you do you want to like go like super pro, like cause I know you said you're, I saw on your thing, you're Solomon ambassador Like is the goal to like get on the international team or is it to do something else? Like what? What are your goals for the sport?

Speaker 2 29:11

Yeah, it's a good. It's a good question. Should be question, should be careful what I say. So work soliciting, I actually know, but I think I think for me, like I like to make running like my full-time job, I would, I would, that would be a dream, like um, just to be able to spend more time on the little things. Like that's what comes down to, like the recovery, making sure you're sleeping when you need to and eating when you need to. It's all those little things that kind of get get a little bit harder when you're working a full-time job, um, so you know, it's not, but for me, I actually I love, I love my work.

Speaker 2 29:48

Uh, it's like super motivating. I do all community like projects, so they're they're really, really rewarding and you know, I love showing up to that and it challenges me in a different way. So, so it's such a good balance right now. But, uh, there are days where I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm exhausted, like I'm showing up for a run already fatigued, and you know, sometimes I just put that run and don't do it cause it's, you know I need to recover instead. But, um, to not have to do that would be just beneficial to you know, really push my limits to, you know, that next spot and challenge myself to the level I want to get to In terms of, like, pro sponsorship.

Speaker 2 30:28

Like you know, as a Canadian, it's hard, like there's not a lot of Canadian athletes that are sponsored out there. It's a little bit different than I think, if you're coming from the American groups, at least, what we've seen recently and that's maybe changing, given how trail running is becoming more prominent in Canada there's more visibility on it, there's more funding coming into it through Athletics Canada, which is great, which we started to see over the last few years. So that is slowly changing but you know it's not quite the not quite the same. But yeah, right now I'm an ambassador with Solomon. I've been working with them for two years.

Speaker 2 31:03

This is my second year and it's been like a great fit. It's like a really community group like I'll support at all the local Coast Mountain Trail Series races that are put on by Gary Robbins here. So awesome community events. I'll go to those. You know support with you shoe demos at local runs and it's just like a good way to like meet a lot of people in Vancouver, which I've, which I really appreciate it and I think if I, if I ever did go or made it to that pro level, I wouldn't want to lose that component, because I think that's what brings the joy to, to what we do is like just meeting all of these amazing people who are also doing the same thing I'm doing, maybe at a different pace, but it's we're all doing the same sport.

Speaker 1 31:44

So super cool. That was a beautiful answer. I appreciate that. Have you popped up over to uh? I think it's in Vancouver, they have I well, I know. Obviously Adam Campbell lives in BC, so there's Alex regard. Have you popped on over? I guess our Terrix has like a big presence in uh in Vancouver as well. They've got like a? Um, I think it's like one of their design centers or something like that.

Speaker 2 32:05

Yeah, they're in North Vancouver. Yep, yeah, um, I haven't ran. I actually met Adam Campbell this one this year, or say last, and this year or sorry, last year for the first time really face-to-face after a race. It's amazing how fit he is. He's just, he's amazing. He's such a nice guy and, yeah, I got the pleasure to meet with him. But he does all those crazy mountain loops and runs with the Squamish group out there and that's just a bit beyond me.

Speaker 2 32:38

I did one big mountain adventure with a group from Squamish and I thought I was never going to come back alive. We were rock climbing, we weren't running anymore and I loved it. But I just I'd want to go more prepared into that kind of terrain, right Making sure I know what I'm doing and so I'm doing it safely. But Alex Ricard and I are good friends. We've been talking about getting some training runs together before Broken Arrow, so we're going to both share a place up there and travel up there together. So that's our plan.

Speaker 1 33:03

Super cool man. Yeah, alex is probably one of the best uphill runners on the planet.

Training Methodology and Preparation

Speaker 2 33:07

Oh my gosh phenomenal.

Speaker 1 33:08

And you know what, so slept on Very few people. I guess he just keeps a low profile. But people don't understand. One of the last people not too many people beat joe gray and he's like one of the last people to beat joe gray. I was like damn, this guy is legit. So, yeah, I'm excited to see. Uh, yeah, you're canadian contingent man like you guys are bringing it like the broken arrows.

Speaker 1 33:27

I do yeah, and then remy larue over and queen back like yeah, you guys got a deep contingent, so super cool. Yeah, man, it's uh, let's about worlds. Like, how does it maybe talk about the like to the audience? Like how, how do you make a world's team? Uh, I know you went and raced at Innsbruck. Uh, did you qualify for Innsbruck at Squamish, or how did?

Speaker 2 33:46

that work. Uh, innsbruck was a qualifier. It was a race in Vernon, uh, a few years ago. Um, and qualified through. There it was.

Speaker 2 34:01

It was a bit of like course errors for that race. Like half the field went off course. Um, there were some challenges with the, the flagging and, um, just with the complexity of running like multiple races on one day. It's not easy for an organization to do that and unfortunately that's how it ended up. I ended up running like a, a trail that paralleled the main trail, so I technically got dq'd, but they, they reviewed, they reviewed all the all the results because they're half the half. The top athletes got off course and they accepted my, my win as a, as an auto, which is great. So I got to go to Innsbruck and had the worst day ever at Innsbruck, to be honest. Like I got super sick. I don't know if I got food poisoning or what it was, but like the night before, just up all night with like a fever, night sweats, and I think I just depleted like all my electrolytes before that race and basically, 10k into the race race, I was cramping and it was. It was miserable.

Speaker 1 35:01

but oh man, what a way. Uh, that's, that's such a bummer, but you get to go now, you're good, you get to go back, which is great yeah, redemption yeah, so I qualified for this one through squamish uh 50k, yeah, okay so he's qualified. So you're going back to do the short trail, is that correct? Yeah, that's right short trail very cool. Yeah, pyrenees, man, that's gonna be a fun one. It's a little bit different of a course maybe. I don't know. I've heard the pyrenees are very steep, very different.

Speaker 2 35:29

I don't know yeah, yeah, it looks it's like got like 3600 meters overt over 45k. So again it's. It's probably not like a race that is like my strength, like I like I like my strength is like some of those races where I can open up and and run a little bit more. This one's gonna have a lot of vertical, but you know, I just gotta train a little bit differently and and adapt that training so that you know it can be my strength, because I am a good climber and I've been like even going, going back to gorge, like winning that race on a downhill is not, it's nothing I would ever expect to have done, cause that's that that historically hasn't been my strength. So, uh, I'm getting better at downhill running and getting more confident there. So, um, it's really just pulling all those pieces together on the on the big stage Super cool.

Speaker 1 36:16

Yeah, I think you guys are going to send a great contingent, like between I'm sure I think I know Remy is going back. I'm sure Alex will go as well for the uphill. So yeah, I think the Canadian contingent is going to be pretty pretty. I don't know if jazz laughter is going for the long trail I think I asked her and do not remember but yeah, you guys are gonna have a deep contingent.

Speaker 2 36:38

Yeah, it should be. That's the hope, and it's always a good team like the. It's a just a great group of athletes. So, um, yeah, definitely excited to to see everyone there yeah, how does that work?

Speaker 1 36:46

is the? Is the like canadian sport, like starting to put more funding behind it? I know you said like some more um, like more brands, more brand visibility obviously is going to be there, but like how, like, as far as like canadian sport, like how does that work for you guys?

Speaker 2 37:01

so it's athletics canada is, um, we're all under athletics canada now. You never used to be that. It used to be under, I think, like the canadian mountain running association only, uh, but now athletics canada encapsulates the trail running and mountain running umbrella as well. The funding is I don't want to be harsh on them, but it's not the greatest, but that's just the reality of where the money has to go. It goes towards predominantly the Olympic group and then, following that, it goes to more of the road and track national teams, which is probably not a significant lump sum either.

Speaker 2 37:39

So, and then you know, we're falling behind all this too, because we're a newer sport. So there's not a ton of funding, like we're pretty much paying our own way. There's some subsidized, I think, through the organization that puts on Worlds. They subsidize a bit and that helps us a little bit, but really we pay for our own flights. Um, I think this year we might get accommodations, hopefully, but it's it's not for certain. So, uh, if we do, that's always a benefit. And, um, we get our kits, which is good.

Speaker 1 38:12

We used to have to pay for our kits, uh, two years ago.

Speaker 2 38:13

So like things have. Things have like slowly changed Like we're now able to pay for our kits uh, two years ago. So like things have, things have like slowly changed like we're now able to we get free kits, which is good. So, um, yeah, it's harder. You're really paying your own way.

Speaker 1 38:25

That's crazy, man. I would I know. Like there's like we had, I don't know. There's a couple athletes in the us like 100 mile team, because there's like a special 100 mile event or something like that for worlds that they do, and we had athletes like raising a big stink because they had to pay their own way or something like that a few years back and I was like I was like how is this not paid for? This is crazy.

Speaker 1 38:42

Like why, are we not funding, you know, to send these athletes. But I guess this is the way it works. Man, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 38:48

It is a little bit crazy, but, um, you know what it's. So it's so worth the experience that, even if it's going to cost a few thousand dollars, you just, uh, I guess I'm, you know, I'm fortunate I do work so I'm able to afford that. But that's not the case for everyone, right. Like some people, this is they're trying to make this their job and um income. You know, paying for a trip like that is not easy, right? So, especially when the prize money is, uh, and you know, is not quite the same as, maybe, like a UTMB race or a Golden Trail series or some other big event.

Speaker 1 39:21

It's crazy? Yeah, it's. I don't know. We'll see as the sport gets more professionalized. That's another thing. I've had a couple conversations on podcasts where we'll talk. I can't go too deep into contract talk, but brands just don't incentivize worlds.

Speaker 1 39:34

the way they do UTMB races and stuff like that, which is weird, but maybe that'll change in the next few years, who knows? Um dude, I want to talk speed goat. I know you mentioned uh mentioned that you're going to speed go. Have you ever been to any like I? I, that's some results. I actually didn't check when I was doing research for this. Have you ever been over to utah race over there?

Speaker 2 39:53

no, I haven't. Um, yeah, I'm excited it was. It was kind of a last, like it was originally signed up for Broken Arrow and I didn't have Spiegel on the calendar and I I really want to like hit a UTMB qualifier. I qualified for CCC or, sorry, occ this year. I just like couldn't make it work with all the other races so I was like, Okay, I got to get another UTMB qualifier and I I was like this one looks hard and fun, so let's try it out that's a brutal race, man like I know that's what everyone's telling me.

Speaker 2 40:24

That's so hot.

Speaker 1 40:25

I've done a couple of the cirque series races, like in that area, like snowbird, and then, uh, alta is like both right there and like dude, by the time, like hour four rolls around for you in that race, like it's. It's like that's the thing. It's like just not a fast race, cause it's so so much climbing and so brutal and so hot. It's like, yeah, it's a, you're in for a treat, it's going to be.

Speaker 2 40:46

You know it's. It's kind of like the ultimate challenge I feel like putting myself in a spot that it's uncomfortable and and you know not my strength and and see what I can do and it'll lead me into a good race at worlds. I think it's like if I can get through something like that, I know I can have a good day in september.

Speaker 1 41:03

So, oh for sure no, I definitely think so. I think there's a lot of specificity to like to that. Where you know a lot of those skills that you'll acquire, you'll just be able to roll over into worlds for a better race because you know like a lot so there's so much hiking there.

Speaker 1 41:16

Um, dude, I gotta ask you. So one of the things you kind of mentioned as well was start line. Like nerves and stuff like that do you get? I see I get very nervous before races. I don't know. I've tried to control it, I I don't think. I think if you want it badly, you're always going to be nervous. Are you a nervous person before, uh, a race?

Speaker 2 41:35

um, I would say I've improved. I've, uh, like I've, I do like a ton of like visualization or breathing exercises just to like super, like really calm myself down. But like I was on that bus and my heart rate was like 110, I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on here, like I'm like so I'm clearly nervous because my heart rate is high, uh. But but then I just I'll just, like, you know, calm down, breathe, do some breathing exercises pre-race and, um, usually that that releases. But if I'm sitting on a bus, you know, going to a race it's always the worst, it's it's it is, it's weird.

Upcoming Races and World Championships

Speaker 1 42:09

So it's actually the reason I ask you is because it's something I'm trying to work through now before my season. It's like you know you do all this hard work, you get super fit, you get ready for the race, but it's like working on that mental component is like just just as much of a component as preparing to, you know, just as getting fit. In my opinion, because it's you know you want to face those demons and kind of get you know ready for that. It's kind of something I'm going through right now. I was like all right, how do I visualize this? How do I get through this? You know it's it's weird, it's a weird position yeah, yeah, totally, I used to.

Speaker 2 42:39

I don't do as much anymore, but I used to do a lot more, a lot more visualization. Visualization where I'd I'd think about myself getting to the start line and how I was gonna feel, just like everything going through the motions and like, actually like lying down in a quiet space and thinking about. It sounds weird, but, um, it's really just like repeating that in your head of of, like what you're going to do on race day and, um, you know, just to find a way to calm, calm yourself down, and, um, I found the breathing is just like for me, it just works. It's just, you know, it's just a good way to just calm and and then show up and you've done all the work and remind yourself you've done the work.

Speaker 1 43:14

That's right. That's right. I got to play around with some of that, so the breeding exercise might be. I'm going to take that off you. I'm going to give that one a shot. What is your? What's your relationship like with competition? Are you a super competitive person or are you more just like run my own race kind of guy? Like? What's your take on that?

Speaker 2 43:30

Um, I would. I would say I'm probably. I'm probably very, pretty competitive. Yeah, I'm very competitive. I'm probably harder on myself and like, like, I'm always going into race to like for my own sorry, that's my dog If you hear I'm always going into a race. Just, you know, it's for it's all for personal interest, right, like winning or losing. And then the day I'm trying to get the most out of myself on that day and, and that's the most important, so, uh, I'm gonna show up and you know, obviously wanted to compete and and win the race but ultimately push myself and and see what I can do, um is the ultimate goal and whether that comes at the podium or a 10th place finish or at world, when I was like 160th or something, I fought the entire way because that's what I had for the day. I love that.

Speaker 1 44:23

Let me ask you this, because I know a lot of people, a lot of peers. I've talked to a lot of people. I notice get imposter syndrome Do you ever deal with that. I'm standing on a start list with this person. I'm like how am I going to beat this person, or am I? Just going to hang with this person.

Speaker 2 44:42

How do you cope with that? Oh, wow, I don't know if it goes away. I'm pretty sure I left gorge being like, oh man, like liam, like he's legit, like I don't know, like, can I do that again? Like, um, yeah, it's hard, but I think, um, yeah, it's a hard one. I think it's like just remind, like I gotta be easier on myself, like not being so critical on um, unlike you know, I'm showing up for myself. I'm not, I'm not doing it for anyone else. So, I think, just reminding myself that I'm, I'm there for for myself, and it's not about what what someone else is doing or how much mileage someone else is doing. Uh, and in the day, um, I'm doing this because I love to do it, so, yeah, it's the best sport on earth, right, yeah, yeah, it's, it's a it's a great one, also a hard one, though, right Like it's.

Speaker 2 45:28

it's not always butterflies and rainbows. It's uh, yeah, it can be hard with injuries and uh stressful and in other ways right, but that's why we do it so have you ever had to deal with any like big injuries in your career at all?

Speaker 2 45:42

I've been, like you know, I've been super injury prone, um, a lot of it, a lot of it actually like falled in like university, when you just push your body through everything and you just never recover, and I think I just don't think I like ever gave myself the time to like recover properly. And then, kind of later in my thirties is when I started to like just become smart about training and injuries have reduced and reduced over the years. So, um, leading up to Gorge was like one of my best blocks, like very few injuries, um a few things here and there, but nothing where it would like stop me from running, and I think that's what allowed me to like that consistency is so important. So, just going back to you know, if you're feeling something coming on, it's so important to just pull back and not push through that workout, because being consistent in the day is what's gonna, is what's going to matter, and just stacking, just stacking those bricks over the years.

Speaker 1 46:40

I meant to ask you this in the beginning and the question got away from me. We talked a little bit about your track and field background from college.

Speaker 2 46:46

You know what?

Speaker 1 46:47

I talked to so many people on the American scene dude, that just have a really horrible situation. They just don't have a good time with their program. How was your experience like? Did you have a like a positive one, or was it difficult, like how to? How was it for you?

Speaker 2 47:02

yeah, it was. Uh, it definitely was. It was difficult actually because we went through like our. We went.

Speaker 2 47:09

I went through like three different coaches when I was at my four years at university, which is not easy, and a lot of that was due to changes in athletics. Um, at least the university I was at, the track and field team no longer became like God, basically demoted from a varsity team to like a club team. It was, which is bizarre because every other university track and field is a varsity. You supported team for students, so, um, but it just, for some reason, the athletics was shifting at the university we're at and they and it changed everything in terms of how it was structured, with coaching, um, which made some challenges, but ultimately, like, I made my, my, my best friends were from that, from, from running and from school. So, like I don't remember. I don't remember the, the races, or you know all the, the drama with the athletics. Like I remember those, like those parties that we had after those races and and just like the, the time we had together, like that's like really was the best part of all of it.

Speaker 1 48:16

Let me ask you guys, cause you you, I mean architecture is not an easy major, like I you know usually it's bundled up with engineering and things like that Did you have a hard time balancing Like I guess I did not run into collegiate level but I studied like a hard science and I had a difficult time balancing like life and that. How did you balance Like, did you? Did you struggle with that at all as a young?

Speaker 2 48:37

Yeah, so I actually did it. I did civil engineering, uh, when I and university, but then I I did a master's in architecture later in life. Um, definitely a challenge. Like it's you have to like you're figuring out how to cook, you're figuring out how to do all these things. You're like I was 17. Like I didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 2 48:54

Um, so you're learning all these new things and, uh, I think that's why you struggle with injury, because you just like don't know how to do all the things properly, like like eat properly, sleep properly, and you just like you're not recovering. And after race, you're going out celebrating instead of and by celebrating it's probably drinking, and you're not actually you're not actually taking care of your, your body, which is, um, you know, going back here like what this could have been done so differently. But you know it's a balance of you know all going back here like what this could have been done so differently, but you know it's a balance of you know all these things and enjoying life and and running, and um, it's, it's definitely a challenge, but for sure for sure.

Speaker 1 49:32

All right, let's move on. I got to get to some ending questions. We got to got a little bit of time left. I got to ask you to who, who inspires you?

Speaker 2 49:40

Oh, awesome question, Um, um, in in terms of running, in terms of yeah could be.

Speaker 1 49:46

Could be running, could be life, could be whatever, it doesn't matter yeah yeah, yeah, um, that's a that's a great question.

Speaker 2 49:53

Um, like, growing, growing up, I I would, I would say my, my brothers would are always my like, my big, my big like, like, oh, oh, man, like I want to be just like these two.

Mental Game and Competition Philosophy

Speaker 2 50:06

My older brother, particularly, was a runner and excelled in it and always looked up to him in that way Later in life, like it was the same thing like through the people I went through in school. But if we're thinking, like you know now today, where you know I'm following all these big trail runners, like I'm, I'm a big follower of, like Francesco Pupi and even Matt Daniels Like I just feel like those two like align so well with like who I am as well and who they are, and in terms of athletes, and I just feel like there's such mature athletes in terms of how they approach the sport and, yeah, it's just, there're just such a pleasure to watch race I mean, I can't speak as much for, uh, francesco, because I I don't follow him too closely, but like man, like I've been aware of matt, like he's lived in his wife was actually my uh, our real estate agent when we first moved to colorado.

Speaker 1 51:00

Funny enough, but, like matt's been in the game a long time man totally interesting to see his metamorphosis and it was cool to see him do have a great race this past weekend at uh I'm sick gorge at uh canyons, which was good, so yeah he's yeah, I think he needs to stick to sub ultra. I think he's gonna have such a better career if he just stays in the sub ultra game yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2 51:19

I think he's trying to figure that out too. He's such a fast guy it's a balance right. You're trying to also do what you want to do, and then you're also good at something. I'm sure there's people you know telling him what he should do too, and yeah, yeah, who would you say?

Speaker 1 51:33

they're your favorite runners in the sport? This is a new question I'm starting to ask people like interesting um, who's my favorite runner?

Speaker 2 51:43

wow, um, I would say they're up there courtney de walter.

Speaker 2 51:50

Like I know it seems like a name that everyone says, but like she just has this like, and I've never met her, but she just seems like she has this personality that is just so enjoyable to be around and she approaches the sport in such a good way, like, um, like it just, she always has this like positive attitude when she's, when she's going out there and I just feel like that's, you know, that's an attitude you need um from that side.

Speaker 2 52:15

But you know what I and I don't have any desire to do 100 milers myself right now. So, um, definitely on, like the short trail side, like francesco, for me, I think, like how he like transitions from all these ways, like from from the roads to the track, to the trails, to the mountains, is like phenomenal, like he's just he does them all so well and I just like it's very, it's just so impressive to to watch someone excel at all of those different types of running, which I think is is I really enjoy, like you know, wanting, wanting to know, like how does he do that? It's just it's phenomenal.

Speaker 1 52:50

He's a month he. I feel like he answered a lot of questions this weekend too, with Canyon's going to win that race, Like, yeah, Like, did he accept? I didn't even look. Did he accept the golden ticket?

Speaker 2 53:00

You didn't know, I didn't think he did.

Speaker 1 53:01

Yeah, wow, I mean, even he can go back and win any of those races at any time. Like it's just amazing to like the level that he is at. It's crazy, yeah, interesting. That was a good question, so I got to start asking that.

Speaker 2 53:12

One more Courtney Walter comes up a has that like people, just like love, and I gotta say I feel the same way. She's amazing, human and super inspiring. But, um, I gotta ask you about music do you listen to music at all, like you? Uh, oh, interesting. Uh, I don't listen to music when I'm running and usually when I'm at home it's my partner putting something on and I'll listen to all all different mixes. Um, okay, um, yeah. So not that I'm not, I just uh, yeah, it's never been my like. My rhythm is terrible Same same.

Speaker 1 53:48

Do you have like a pump up song or anything you listen to like for a race?

Speaker 2 53:51

That's like no, no, no, I don't which is maybe bizarre, cause, like I've had this. I've had people talk to me about this and be like, like what do you listen to, like when you're on the treadmill. I'm like I don't know, I just don't listen to music on the treadmill either. I'll just I'll do a 90 minute run on a treadmill and no music, like I just maybe that's really bizarre.

Speaker 1 54:11

I think it's more impressive than it is bizarre Like how you could be in your own head for that long is just like dude. I like panic. If I'm in my head for that long, I have to put at least a podcast or something on it or I'll lose my mind. That's amazing. Yeah, do you do you follow any like like other sports? Like, are you a big sports guy? Any other like?

Speaker 2 54:30

um, not, not really no, and not not just because not interested, I'm just like the top, like my time that I have, uh, coming back to like balancing, balancing all the things I want to do. It's like you know, I'll run, I work and then I'll add some social life in there and not not a ton of time in there to really invest to follow another, another sport personally. But I used to like watch a lot of like soccer growing up as a played a ton of soccer pretty much to end of high school before I got into running, but you know that's kind of fallen off.

Speaker 1 55:03

Interesting. It's funny, man. I talked to so many people from that like BC area or like I know BC is a gigantic place but like I talked to so many athletes, that are like into rock climbing or they're into the water sport and I'm just like that's interesting, Like a lot of like, very like people like love their sports in Canada. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 55:20

Yeah, and especially out here, like either you're rock climbing or mountain biking. I picked up a mountain biking, but that sport is gnarly Like it's. Uh, yeah, you feel like, you feel like you might fall and that's the end, so but it's, it helps with downhill running. So that's kind of why I did it just to you know, learn, learn to flow on the trail and be a little bit more aggressive, and I found the mountain biking is a good way to do it.

Speaker 1 55:45

That's a good one. I might have to snag that from you. I've been gravel biking a bunch, but not mountain, I'm just afraid. After hearing Garrett Corcoran's story of ripping his leg before series and all, I'm like, yeah, it's a roll of the dice. Yeah, that's exactly it. The risk is too high. Is there a race that you haven't done yet? That's like a bucket list race for you.

Speaker 2 56:08

I definitely want to go to like OCC and race out there at one of the UTMB races for sure, as kind of like a bucket and one of the next one. It's kind of like a typical one for most, but it's really just like that's one of the bigger stages and, yeah, being able to go out there would be would be one for sure.

Speaker 1 56:31

Um super cool. Well, you've raced marathon du mont blanc, so you've been on a good chunk of that course.

Speaker 2 56:36

It's pretty sweet I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 56:39

The 20s, I did the 23k, the 23 technical course at all, or is it not very technical?

Speaker 2 56:45

There was like one section that and I can't remember the names of all the routes, but there was one section where I say it would be a little bit more technical, one of the descents, but otherwise not really, it's pretty fast.

Speaker 1 56:58

Is it Super cool, interesting. Well, dude, I think we're almost at time. I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, josh. It was great getting to talk to you. I hope to get to meet you at a star line one of these days. I don't know if we'll be. Hopefully it'll be a broken arrow, we'll see. I'm kind of trying to put plans together yet to figure out what I'm doing. But, dude, it was great having a conversation with you. Thank you so much and wishing you the best in your 2025 season. Thank you.

Speaker 2 57:23

I appreciate you having me on here and looking forward to staying in touch, james. Thanks, man, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 57:29

What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. I want to thank Josh so much for coming on the podcast and just wishing him the absolute best of luck in the rest of his 2025 season. He's got some big goals and I can't wait to see him accomplish them. So big stuff on the horizon for Josh, definitely a rising star in our sport and, yeah, just really appreciative that he was open to letting me help tell his story. That's the best way I can describe it. There you go, guys.

Speaker 1 57:55

Before you get going, hop on Instagram. You can find Josh. The best way to support him is to give him some follows. You could find Josh. The best way to support him is to give him some follows. You could find him on Instagram at JJ P O T V I N. That's JJ Potvin. That's P O T V I N. On Instagram, give him a follow and I'm sure I'm sure he'd love to hear from you guys I'm sure he'd love to hear, you know some words of encouragement about the episode. If you guys enjoyed it, let them know. And yeah, and if you guys happen to be in the you know the Vancouver area probably a good, probably a good mind to link up with as far as knowing the trails over there. So big stuff on the horizon for Josh.

Speaker 1 58:30

Guys, before you get going, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple Spotify or podcasts or Apple Spotify or wherever you consume your podcasts. And, yeah, that would just mean the world to us. And very last but not least, this episode was brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA. If you guys are interested in a new pack, check out the new Race and Ultra. The Race is a six liter vest, the Ultra is a 12 liter. These are coming out in two new beautiful colorways in this onyx and green, as well as this beautiful white and blue color. Yeah, check them out.

Speaker 1 59:00

Like I said, they're very dynamic, not a lot of static pieces on them. Um, they're, they're very affordably priced. But if you're looking for that discount, check out, uh, ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod. That's steep stuff pod. One word for 25% off your cart. Um, and yeah, yeah, good stuff. Got some more uh, cool episodes coming out on the horizon. I'm excited to bring you an episode on Friday with Lindsay Allison and next week I've got one dropping with Ryan Becker, which is a tell-all episode. It's a dope one, so excited for some cool new episodes on the horizon. We're cooking up some stuff right now for Broken Arrow and the Soonipi Scramble, so we're going to be those weeks are going to be incredibly exciting for the Steep Stuff podcast. We've got some really cool media coming your way for those. So keep tuning in. Really appreciate your guys' support and have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much. Thank you, thanks for watching.