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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Jamie Brusa - Pre Sunapee Scramble Interview
Have you ever wondered how elite mountain runners balance their athletic pursuits with demanding professional careers? In this captivating episode, we dive deep with Jamie Brusa, a PhD marine biologist who doubles as one of the top competitors in the Cirque Series mountain races.
Jamie shares her fascinating journey from middle school runner who feared distance events to collegiate track athlete at the University of Illinois, and eventually to becoming an elite mountain runner. What makes her story particularly compelling is how she navigates two seemingly disconnected worlds - analyzing North Atlantic right whale movements from her computer in Montana while training for some of the most challenging mountain races in the country.
The conversation reveals powerful insights about the complementary relationship between intellectual and physical pursuits. Jamie explains how running provides essential mental breaks from complex statistical problems, while her scientific approach to problem-solving enhances her training. Her refreshing philosophy on goal-setting challenges conventional wisdom, distinguishing between goals and desires to maintain a positive mindset regardless of race outcomes.
We explore the nuts and bolts of Jamie's training approach, her preparation for the upcoming USA Mountain Running Championships at Sunapee, and how she manages to compete at an elite level while balancing a full-time scientific career. For anyone juggling multiple passions or seeking to understand how different life pursuits can enhance rather than compete with each other, this episode offers valuable wisdom from someone who's mastered the balance.
Subscribe and join us for more conversations with remarkable athletes who are redefining what's possible both on and off the mountain trails.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, bringing you a pre-Scene-a-Piece scramble episode with none other than Jamie Barusa. If you've ever raced the Cirque Series, you're probably aware of who Jamie is. She's kind of a Cirque Series mainstay, consistently racing herself into some of the top spots in the elite category, or I should say pro category, at the Cirque series on an annual basis. She had some top finishes, including a top 25 last year at the US Mountain running champs against extremely stacked field of women, and Jamie pretty frequently is usually on the podium, if not outright wins the Cirque series overall ranking for the pros pretty consistently. So, yeah, it was a fun conversation, really cool getting to know Jamie. She has a really badass day job which we kind of got into, which was a lot of fun. She's a PhD marine biologist. She works on a lot of specific statistical analysis on some marine species, which I thought was pretty cool. The nerd in me definitely had a fun one with this conversation. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one, wishing Jamie the best of luck on her race. Without further ado, jamie Brusa.
Speaker 1:Jamie Brusa, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you? Thanks, I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good, getting everything together for the Soon-to-Peace Scramble and just starting to put together all these race previews. It's pretty exciting. I can't believe the summer season is pretty much here, right.
Speaker 2:Well, you might want to let the weather know that, but yes, it's getting there, At least here in Colorado.
Speaker 1:it's pretty. Where are you based at?
Speaker 2:Just outside of Bozeman Montana.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. So you guys are a little bit further north, so I guess Old man Winter is still hanging around here. It's like sunny and 70 in colorado springs it's kind of nice yeah, yeah. So maybe, uh, before we get started, maybe give like a five minute elevator pitch on your running background and kind of your relationship with running and stuff like that sure, I guess I first came into the sport in middle school like many others and my coaches were great and just encouraging us to try all the different events.
Speaker 2:And I was really interested in distance and at the same time terrified of it. So I dabbled in that a little bit, fell in love with long jump and then in high school I was still mostly afraid of distance, but allowing myself to immerse a little more into it. But I was a sprinter and triple jumper in high school and attended some of the distance practices. And then in college I was fortunate to get to walk onto the team at the University of Illinois, to get to walk onto the team at the University of Illinois and I was brought in to be an 800 meter specialist and by the end of my time there I fell in love with cross country and got a lot more comfortable with running longer race distances.
Speaker 2:And then most of my 20s I took a step back from racing and I still ran, but it was more recreational and I stayed involved in the sport through coaching. At one point that was my full time career and then kind of came back into racing right around age 30 through obstacle course racing, which is a little different, but it was really great to get me back into competing and met a lot of cool people and had a lot of fun with that for a few years. And then, through that, I found mountain running and realized that that was its own sport in a way, and I think of all the different forms of running related sports, that's probably the one I'm best suited for and the one I enjoy the most.
Speaker 1:Super cool. How did you find the Cirque series? I'm just curious, Cause I know you've done the Cirque series a bunch of years in a row. Last season was my first season racing. Um, I went out. I think we were at a bunch of the same races. I did Brighton, Alta. I didn't do Alyaska. What else did I do? Targi? I think those were the three. But super fun, right, Like those races are such a blast.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I, I love going to those races. It just it feels like a big celebration. Everybody's so friendly, so kind, very welcoming. Whether it's your first race or your thousandth race, I think people can come into the community and feel the same sort of warmth and belonging, our sense of belonging, which I think is really cool and really speaks a lot to what Julian has put together in those series.
Speaker 2:Um, but to get back to your question, I found out about the series from a friend who is in our local running community. We have a bunch of uh well, we have like a run club and then that kind of spurs off in a bunch of different directions. So there's pretty much a group you can join about any day of the week, and I'm sure there are more groups that I don't know about in town too. But yeah, she just mentioned it one day to me in 2022, I believe and I went online and looked it up and the only race that fit into my schedule was Snowbird. So I signed up for it and I went through, I think, every emotion possible during the nine or so miles of that race and I went from getting really down on myself and thinking I was a chump for signing up and why was I out there to, by the end of the race, thinking this was the best decision I've ever made and this is awesome and I'm definitely doing another one they're addicting, super fun.
Speaker 1:I'll be doing a bunch of them this year. I definitely are you planning on going back to any of them this year?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm hoping to do most of them. Um, with the addition of the east and west coast races, that's a little bit more of a challenge. Um, so I will do, I think, all of them, except for the one in Vermont and the one in Washington.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, cool. Well, I'll see you. I'm really excited for Alyaska. That course looks insane. It's my favorite, yeah, and it's so steep. It's so hard to train for something like that, even living in Colorado.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wow, like 4,000 feet in, like two and a half miles or three miles, is bananas. It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's. It's a very unique course. Um, it's really fun and I think you're really going to like it. I'm stoked.
Speaker 1:It should be. It should be a really good time I'm staying. We actually found a place in Girdwood which I was stoked on, because usually it fills up and it's hard to get in there. So I'm super excited to be there. So it should be fun. I'm really going to ask you. So I've had quite a few PhD scientists and folks high level on the podcast. I'm just going to ask you because this is something I usually ask all of them how do you balance running and having fun with that while also having like a serious, like big girl job, like let me talk about that.
Speaker 2:Sure, I think it actually makes it easier to do both training and science um at a high level when you are doing both at the same time, because they can complement each other. If I'm sitting in front of a model I'm trying to build or some piece of code that I've got a tiny typo in and I can't seem to find it, I can go out and run and I can come back to it. And then the answer is usually pretty obvious because I've spent that time away. And then I come back and it's like, oh OK, yeah, I wasn't thinking about this, and now I have fresh eyes and how could I have missed that? I think that can be really useful.
Speaker 2:And then I think it's just good to have balance in life, whether that comes from a career that's not related to running plus running, or you know whatever it is. If you have children and then you're balancing that with a career or with other interests, I just I think that balancing different interests out in life can help people grow and feel like they're not putting all of their eggs into one basket. When things go poorly in one area, you can kind of lean into another area, or you can sort of borrow ideas from okay, I tried this problem solving technique with science. Maybe I can apply some of that information to where I'm struggling with my training or racing, um yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's super cool. Can you, for the audience, maybe paint the picture of like what you specifically do, because I was blown away. It's pretty, pretty cool. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:So I mentioned that I live in Montana and this is going to sound weird, but I am a marine biologist. The reason I can get away with being a marine biologist in a landlocked state is because I'm more of a statistician To a true statistician I would never call myself one, but that is my job title and a lot of people in wildlife biology kind of refer to those of us working on more quantitative problems as statisticians. So I just sit in front of my computer for most of the year and write code and build models and analyze data to understand what's happening with. Right now. I pretty much exclusively study North Atlantic right whales and so a lot of it is looking at spatial analysis, trying to predict okay, if we saw a whale over here, how likely are we to see that whale or another whale in this area next week or in two weeks?
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of management out. How can we live to kind of coexist in our ocean recreation or working so like fisheries and boating, that can be recreational or it can be shipping, to pro trade industry, operate with those different aspects of human life without really disturbing the whales? And then how can we benefit from different things that the whales can produce for us. So, for example, whales are really good at providing nutrients for the ocean, especially iron, and that leads to primary productivity, and then that just magnifies up the food chain and that allows us to fish for large commercial fish that people want to buy and eat. Um, so yeah, I don't know if that's the best explanation, but oh, it's super cool.
Speaker 1:I I just figured like migratory patterns and stuff like that, but it's so cool that you can like build models so like accurately predict, like, or at least within like I don't know. I haven't taken statistics since grad school but it's been a long time, but like, I guess regression analysis and trying to figure out, like, where things are going Is that.
Speaker 2:is that more or less what it is, or yeah, kind of Um, yeah, Thank you, by the way, that's really kind of you to say. Um, yeah, thank you, by the way, that's really kind of you to say. But yeah, um, I do a lot of regressions, some kind of out of the box building a model, use out of sample data to verify if that actually makes sense or if you're just fitting your numbers to a model. That sounds good. But yeah, just sitting in front of a computer, which also makes it really refreshing to go out and run or hike or any other kind of training.
Speaker 1:Super cool. Did you study marine biology in undergrad, or like? What did you study specifically?
Speaker 2:In college we didn't have any kind of we didn't even have a marine biology class, but there is one offered now, I've been told. But I wanted to stay kind of close to home. But I wanted to stay kind of close to home. At the time I was a senior in high school. My mom had, but I just applied and stayed. I grew up in Illinois. I balance family life there and so I had a degree in or I have a degree in integrative biology from Illinois and then I went straight from there into a master's degree that is in marine science, and then took a break from science, got into coaching, came back and then pursued my PhD at Montana State but studied Weddell Seals in Antarctica. So got back into the marine world there in sort of an unexpected way.
Speaker 1:Super cool. I wanted to be a marine biologist when I was an undergrad. I I was originally studying biology failed chemistry because I partied too hard and then became a geologist, like literally became a geologist instead. So that's funny, it's. It's. It's cool the way I don't know, marine biology is so interesting to me, like I grew up in south florida, like we're obviously we have like the indian river lagoon and a lot, and like the everglades and a lot of like really cool, like more biologically diverse spots, so it's just a, it's something very near and dear to my heart. So thanks for painting that picture. Let's, let's get back to running. Um, I know I'm kind of all over the place. I did have a question for you living in montana, have you? I didn't check results, I checked your ultra sign up, but I didn't check rut results. Do you, have you ever ran the rut or are you interested at all? Because, like, that's like such a hardcore mountain race.
Speaker 2:I've never run any distance of the rut. The timing is usually not great because I'm usually either running that same day or the week right before or right after in a different race. I think last year was the first time I had been out there. No, that's not true. It was the second time I had been out there during the race to cheer people on, and it's such a cool community event and it's also such a really big and competitive race. Um, that is really fun to be part of, but I have not participated myself and I don't know that I will in the future. But it it's a cool event. If anyone's thinking about it, I would recommend it. Super cool. It's a full on mountain race Like that thing. The rut is cool event. If anyone's thinking about it, I would recommend it.
Speaker 1:Super cool. It's a full on mountain race Like that thing. The rut is no joke. Um, all right, let's. Let's talk soon to P. I know last year you raced at snowbird, which was the U S mountain running champs had a good result there. I'm just curious, like what? What was the the push to soon to be for this year?
Speaker 2:because it's for the us mountain running championship um, really just the fact that it is the usa mountain championships for the standard course um got me excited. I was really excited that last year it was at snowbird and that was a course that I had run before. Unfortunately, I think that was probably my worst effort on that course. Um, it just is a tough day, I think for everybody. It was smoky, it was dry, um. But yeah, I saw, I think kind of early on, maybe around january or february, that uh, sunup he was hosting the championships this year and so I figured I should probably go.
Speaker 1:Sounds fun I love it super cool. Um, let's talk about, like, how training's going, like your build and everything like that. I know you just put us to put a. I think I put up a post not so long ago about racing this past weekend or the weekend before, so obviously you've been racing trainings going pretty well. Maybe talk about your block and how that's been going.
Speaker 2:Sure, uh, yeah. So I, like you mentioned, I opened up my 2025 season last weekend um just at a local race in Helena. It's one I usually open the season with, um very fun and it supports the land trust in that city, um, which I feel very strongly about um. Actually, a lot of people in Montana seem to really support um preserving lands and having trails that are accessible, um, so it was really fun. A lot of people from Bozeman were out there, um, but training is um, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't block my training as well as most people do. It's it's kind of continuous and I have like ups and downs with volume and intensity, um, but I I don't know some people come on and they're just like super organized about their training and to me, I work in this. I'm realizing this might come off as other people don't work hard and work, and I definitely don't mean that everybody works hard, but for me it's draining to work hard at my job and then work hard with training and planning, and so for me, a lot of my training is just about having fun and enjoying running and enjoying where running takes me, which you know could be geographically interesting places, or emotionally or psychologically interesting or useful or fun places. So my organization is sort of it's it's detailed out into like a full year of a macro cycle and then within that I have my main training season, which is the summer, usually mid-May through either mid to late September, and then there's this little extra push that happens at the end of October it might be the first couple of days of November, depending on the year and it's for this race that we have in Montana called the Montana Cup, and everybody competes for your town, so I would compete for Bozeman and it's just a cross country race.
Speaker 2:It can range from a 5k to an 8k. It's different every year in a different city hosted every year. So I do like another little quick push for that. But that's the broad scale overview of my training and then a more detailed kind of block, but not true block level. Um, what I do in late spring and early summer is I move from focusing more on volume to a little bit more intensity, which often comes from the races. My actual workouts don't change a whole lot, but I focus more on trying to get in more vert, doing more intensity through racing and then sort of complementing that by decreasing my volume a little bit to make sure that I feel recovered.
Speaker 1:Nice, I got to ask you this how does your body cause like? Last year, even doing like back-to-back weeks from Alta to Grand Targhee, I was pooped afterwards. It was like that's a lot racing back-to-back weekends. How do you hold up doing Cause like Cirque series is usually every other week to? I mean, there's what, depending on how the races work, there's a lot of them that are stacked in there and they're short but highly intensive. How does your body like take that?
Speaker 2:I think my body can handle the high frequency because I I really don't race in the winter. Um, aside from the Montana cup that I mentioned, I don't race in the fall and I don't race in the early to mid spring. So all of that is just training, um, you know, putting those drops in the bucket week after week, and the intensity is not super high unless I get really excited running with someone who's much faster than me on any given run. But the plan is generally just kind of boring training, nothing flashy, just kind of boring training, nothing flashy. And I think that sets me up really well for an intense summer. I also do a lot of well, I guess it'd be a lot for a runner strength training. My husband's a wrestler and he doesn't think I do very much strength training, so different perspectives on it. But I think that helps me stay a lot more durable and I also prioritize recovery pretty well and as I get older that becomes more and more a more and more important component of training to me.
Speaker 1:Do you do any OCR races anymore, or are you completely done with OCR? Do you? Are you still? Do you do any OCR races anymore?
Speaker 2:Are you completely done with OCR? No, um, I tried to leave the OCR world two years ago and then I was invited to compete for team USA over in uh, belgium, and so I wasn't going to turn down that opportunity and I'm really glad I didn't. That was so much fun. And then I thought about that was so much fun and then I thought about that was going to be my exit. And then last year Spartan race came to Bozeman. My husband and I were both just like man. For all the years we've wanted Spartan to be in our backyard, like we should honor our past selves by just jumping in this race. And so we both did. We did the 10 K Um. That was the only OCR race I did last year and I I think this year I'm officially done Um, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:Super cool, have you? So the reason I asked that that's kind of was getting to was racing for team USA, obviously on the OCR side. What would it mean for you to make the Sunup team or to place top forward Sunup and make team USA for world? Does that, is that something that's crossed your mind?
Speaker 2:It's definitely crossed my mind. Um, somebody else, a friend of mine, put that in my mind. Uh, I mean, I guess, I guess I probably gave it some thought when I signed up, only because it is a possibility and a friend of mine who is Canadian and she's like, oh what if you made the team, this would be so wonderful, and, yes, I agree. So when I set goals, I set goals for myself and, um, really just effort levels, because I have no idea what anyone else is going to come out and do. Um, everyone else could have a terrible day and I could have a great day and that could launch me up in the finishing list. Um, or it could be the exact opposite, or, more likely, it'll be somewhere between those two extremes. So, um, I've over the past, really over the past single year, but, but um, other other recent years have contributed to this.
Speaker 2:But goal setting has really changed for me and and thinking about, ok, what can I do? And that doesn't even usually include a time goal, like if I were to go out on the track or a road and say, ok, I'm going to go run a 5k, this is my goal. I might have a number in mind that I think I can do, but that number realistically could be. If we're using a metaphor of a trail, like a mountain trail, that goal might be two steps from the trailhead like very easy I should definitely accomplish it. Or it might be at the highest peak and the thing is I don't know where it is. You know, I don't know what my body's capable of doing.
Speaker 2:So I try to move away from time goals and definitely placement goals, because they are desires and their dreams and when you turn a desire into a goal, I think you're not necessarily setting yourself up very well, because you're either going to hit that desire or you're not. And if you hit it, great, cool, life's awesome. If you don't hit it, you might miss out on so many wonderful things to celebrate because you're focused on oh, I didn't hit that time. To celebrate because you're focused on oh, I didn't hit that time, or I didn't hit that place when maybe it was an inappropriate goal to set. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, 100% it does. It's actually really interesting. This is a mindset thing I've been exploring a lot lately. Like, personally, you think about it and it's like, at the very end of the day, there's a lot of things that are out of your control, right, like you don't know if you'll have a bad sleep the night before. You can try to have a great night's sleep, but there's all different things like out of your control. The best goal is to just do your best and just, you know, control the things that you can control and whatever you can do, you can do it. Yeah, I think that's a much more positive mindset going in, as opposed to like, oh, and I'm going to speak that into existence, which I meet a lot of people that do and might, and they might be able to carry that and do that, but I wouldn't, I can't do that. Like, I don't know, like that's not the way I approach things. It's, it's uh. I think the easiest way to do is just, yeah, think, have the positive mindset and just do Interesting, that's good stuff.
Speaker 1:What are you? Are you going to go out early for the race or are you going to go out like weekend of? Like what are your plans for to go out there. I'm really sorry. Can you repeat that? Oh, I'm sorry. No, I was going to say what is your like plans for the race? Are you going to go out there early? Are you going to see the course and stuff like that? Are you going to go out just day before? I know everybody's got kind of different like things, especially coming from montana, which is a bit higher, is a little more altitude, like how does that work for you as far as adaptations?
Speaker 2:I'm planning to head out um pretty close to race day I think. I think I have a flight leaving midday on the friday and then the race is on sunday, so, um, fly all day I just said it's midday, so fly all afternoon and evening um to get out there. Um, we're getting into my husband's coming with me, so, um, the two of us will get into Boston and then probably stay somewhere out there and then on Saturday hopefully get a little bit of a course preview at an easy effort, and then on Saturday hopefully get a little bit of a course preview at an easy effort and then race on Sunday. And then I so I think I mentioned that I well, I might not have I work remotely and I work for NOAA.
Speaker 2:I work remotely and I work for NOAA, and so the Northeast Fishery Science Office of NOAA is in Woods Hole, massachusetts, which is not that far from New Hampshire. So I'm taking advantage of having Sunapee on June 1st, and then I think it's Cannon is the first series yeah, she's also in New Hampshire is the first cirque series. Yeah, um, she's also in new hampshire. And then, um, I'm gonna stay with a colleague and actually show up to the lab for work that week, that first week of june, um, and then so yeah, I'll be out there that week. And, um, I don't know what it means to acclimatize to sea level and more humidity and hotter temperatures, but but I'll get that.
Speaker 1:The humidity is like is a total monster. So yeah, it's, it's a. It's a different beast, I guess.
Speaker 2:I actually love humidity.
Speaker 1:Do you really, oh God?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I live at 6,000 feet or a little bit more than that, and it's so dry here and I I'd say I prefer, like sea level and humidity over altitude and and super dry, but I don't know. That's why I'll, like I'll probably. I don't know. I haven't decided yet whether I'm opening up my season at cannon or killington, but like I will be out there like at least a week ahead of time, just to start getting used to everything and just feel you know, feel more acclimatized or ready for that.
Speaker 1:get that power, I guess, I guess. Yeah, super interesting. Um, yeah, I think we covered everything. Um, yeah, jamie, I'm going to wish you the best of luck in your race and super exciting. Um, I'd love to do another like long form interview with you at some point so we can talk a little bit more, maybe after the Cirque season, talk about your you know your different races and things like that. You take on the summer and go from there, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. So listen up, guys. The steep stuff podcast is brought to you by ultimate direction. Usa. Guys, I am so excited ud just dropped their new race vest, six liter, and ultra vest, 12 liter in two beautiful aesthetic colors. You guys got to check these new vests out. They're dynamic in ways like that you just have never seen from an ultimate direction vest Very stretchy, lots of storage, beautiful aesthetic colorways coming into, coming to you in a new, like a white and blue and an onyx and green. Just absolutely beautiful vests. I think these ones are just like some of the best products we've ever dropped. I'm so excited for you guys to try them out. Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod Again that's steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced, but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution.
