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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Sunapee Scramble Race Preview with - Nick Tusa & Tom Hooper
The countdown to America's most competitive mountain running showdown has begun. In this episode, host James Lauriello sits down with race director Tom Hooper and co-host Nick Tusa to dissect the upcoming Sunapee Scramble – the USATF Mountain Classic Championships that will determine who represents Team USA at the World Mountain Running Championships.
This race promises unparalleled drama as athletes tackle a brutally demanding 9.2-mile course with over 3,200 feet of elevation gain. The uniquely designed two-loop format mimics the world championship course in Spain, featuring both service road climbs and highly technical descents through what locals call "the glades" – described as "really steep, really fast, really mushy." It's a course that demands complete athletes, or as Hooper puts it, "Swiss army knives" of mountain running.
The conversation dives deep into the compelling storylines shaping both fields. On the men's side, all eyes are on the brewing rivalry between defending champion Dan Kurtz and rising star Mason Copey, who recently outpaced Kurtz on Mount Sanitas. Meanwhile, the women's race presents a fascinating battle between established elites like Ali Ostrander, Rachel Tomajczyk, and Lauren Gregory against emerging talents such as Sophie Wright and Flannery Davis Love. With only four men's spots and three women's spots available for Worlds (plus Grayson Murphy's automatic qualification), several American stars will inevitably be left heartbroken.
What makes this selection race particularly significant is the extraordinary depth of talent – many competitors boast sub-14 minute 5K and sub-30 minute 10K credentials – paired with the technical challenges that will expose any weaknesses in descending ability. The trio offers detailed analysis and bold predictions about who will triumph on this unforgiving New Hampshire terrain.
Curious about which rising stars might have their career-defining breakthrough? Which established veterans might miss the world team? Or how the unusually wet, cold conditions might reshape the competitive landscape? Tune in for expert insights into what promises to be the most competitive selection race ever assembled on American soil.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys a Sunapeet Scramble race preview episode with co-host Nick Tusa and race director Tom Hooper. Guys, I think you're going to enjoy this one. We break down all kinds of picks for you. I select a top 10 in both and then we also get into the top five and all kinds of good stuff, as well as our who's going to be, who we think is going to be headed to the pyrenees to represent team usa and the mountain classic. Um, guys, this one's near and dear to my heart was really hoping to be racing this one. Um, definitely a really, really fun race, and I think this is going to be, uh, definitely one of the more competitive selection races ever assembled on American soil. So it's for sure going to be one to remember. So hope you guys enjoy this one Without further ado, the Sunapee Scramble race preview episode.
Speaker 1:It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Tom Hooper, nick Tussauds Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. Boys, it's Sunapee Scramble Week. How's it going Good?
Speaker 2:It's going well. Good to have you guys. How's everybody?
Speaker 1:doing. It's Friday. It's the Friday before the race. It's crazy. We've arrived, we're here. I feel like we've been talking about this for months, so I'm glad that we're able to uh all meet and convene and put together a solid, uh solid pre-game, pre-race, uh preview. So will we?
Speaker 3:will we be as wrong as we were with gorge, as we are with son of a?
Speaker 1:no, not at all. I'm dialed this time. Dude, you're gonna be so impressed with my picks okay I have statistics, I have, I have the whole. I really like game plan, this one for once. So, yeah, we were pretty wrong with Gorge. That was not the best, Although we also in our defense, we did it three months out.
Speaker 3:We did. It was a tad early yeah.
Speaker 1:Got a bit excited there. So, yeah, tom, how are you man, you're probably pretty busy, like it's, you know.
Speaker 3:It's go time, yeah, it's go time between this and all the other races that I'm uh putting on.
Speaker 1:It is it's go time yeah, you know, dude, you never told me this. I didn't realize you were the rd for circ and kill, for, uh, cannon and killington as well.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, when I was out in snowbird, uh, julian was talking about how he wanted to come out east and he's like are you in, do you have the bandwidth? And I said no. And he's like, yeah, let's do it anyways. No, I said, I said yes. I said yes Right away. I knew, I knew what kind of races he put on. So I'm like hell, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's, I'm super excited for both of them. I mean obviously I'll. I got to figure out like I definitely, hopefully definitely will be at Killington, uh, just given some injury stuff. But like both courses look pretty compelling man, I mean they're crazy. I've kind of game planned Killington a little bit more, just cause I was more sure on that one. Um, but yeah, both courses look amazing and it's going to be fun to uh to throw down. It's kind of crazy, man. I didn't realize like you could get 3k of climbing in that little seven mile loop. That's. That's pretty, pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, just just because we don't have 14,000 footers here, everybody thinks you can't get a whole lot of vert. Um, but you can. You can get the vert and it's super technical. You know we have that joke going with with, uh, garrett and that crew about. You know this is so East coast versus West coast. So yeah it's it uh.
Speaker 1:Canada is is crazy. That kinsman trail is no joke, yeah, and is killington it's more. Is it more road, more service road with a little bit of like techy stuff or what's? What's that all about?
Speaker 3:yeah, the. So this, the, the first one and a half miles, is a service road, but it's like loon mountain race. It is super straight up service road and then you bounce over the long trail a little bit and straight up to the summit and then you kick out onto basically like a backwoods trail called Solitude. So it kind of takes you around the mountain, gives you some flowy running, and then you kicks you right into the, you know, back into the bear mountain and out into the finish line.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, I'm excited man. It's going to be fun. Let's, uh, let's get into Sunapee. I, I, I. I'm pretty happy with myself that I did not pronounce it soon. A piece so far. So we're doing points for that.
Speaker 1:So I think where we're at here is like so race is going to be next Sunday, June 1st 2025. For all those tuning in, this is the USATF mountain classic champs. So this is going to be the selection race for where we're sending and, Tom, you can correct me on this if I get this wrong it is going to be four men and four women, but technically three slots of the women given Grayson spot. Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Correct. Yeah, grayson was the world champion, so she gets an auto spot. So there'll be four men, three women.
Speaker 1:And the course itself. This is 9.4 miles, 3,264-ish feet of climbing. Yeah, I think it's closer to 9.2,.
Speaker 3:but yeah, either or. So what we did is normally Sunapee isn't that long, but the course in Spain is a two-loop course, so we were more than willing to change it to make it more so like the Spain course. So it's pretty dead on. It's going to be exactly like Spain.
Speaker 1:Maybe get into that a little bit. Talk about both of the, because the first loop is not necessarily the same as the second loop, correct?
Speaker 3:So all the same aid stations, but they're not quite the same loop. So the first loop you start, you go up the service road all the way to the summit. You come down in through the glades, you hit the starting line again, then you go up half the service road and you get put onto the Newberry Trail. Newberry Trail is super technical. You take that all the way back up to the summit and then you hit the glades on the wayberry trail. Newberry trail is super technical, uh, you take that all the way back up to the summit and then you hit the glades on the way back down.
Speaker 3:Um the glades is really steep, really fast, really mushy. It's not. It's not fast in the sense of like road or or, you know, grant rocks you can jump on.
Speaker 1:It's just a, a barren section of some mossy downhill sections okay, nice, nice and, like I've heard, for the second loop, it's this it's basically a way more technical section that was kind of tacked on from last year's vertical race. Is that correct? We have we combined the.
Speaker 3:so when we had the selection race here two years ago, we had had a vertical which was on the technical section, and then we had a classic which was just two loops of the auto road. Um, so we had a meeting, you know, at one point and I think Grayson's the one that suggested that we do two different loops and uh and put in the technical section on uh on the second loop. So like, let's do it.
Speaker 1:We'll make it as hard as possible. Nice, big shout out to Grayson. I want to. I want to double back to um some of the selection stuff, right? So I know there was. I know Paul had sent me some, um, some information. I didn't get full like reading through it. How does it work with alternates for this race, like, how would they'll be chose Like, is it like top X amount of folks or something like that, that are like or in the top 10 or anything like that, or how does that? How does that roll Right?
Speaker 3:So the mountain selection I'm not a hundred percent sure on how it works, but usually um well, it's changed. It used to roll down Um so long. Long trail and short team. It doesn't roll down his resume, I believe that mountain rolls down. So say, somebody like Remy comes in. Third, you know, not eligible down to the next one, down to the next one, something like that. Yeah, that's what I figured, Okay.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Cool, cool, all right. I think that's all I got for the course itself and some of the selection points. Is there anything you guys want to add? Nick Tom, anything, no, all right.
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get into storylines. I think there's some interesting compelling storylines here. First thing I'd like to talk about is some notable absences that we're probably going to have. Just going into this, we've got a few dropouts with some early injuries, and I'm not going to disclose like what anything is, but it's just. Christian allen's probably going to be. Iffy probably not going to be there. David sinclair seems to be a notable drop. Um kade michael is not going to be there. We've got mika as well, uh, with an injury related. Um garrett broke my heart. I was really pissed at Garrett. I was like, come on, man, garrett's not going to be there.
Speaker 3:I think he's just too soft. I don't think he was going to make the team and he just decided not to show up. I get it, I understand. Sorry, buddy, we still love you.
Speaker 1:And then Grayson is going to be a game day decision, probably. It seems like uh, based off the information she gave. And then oakley olsen, um, who was really bummed about because I feel like oakley was going to be a serious contender this year. Um, she's not going to be making it because, uh, she is making a, she, she's qualified, either qualified for ncas, something like that. I forget how the collegiate system works, but she is going to be um, uh, competing, uh, competing, uh, collegiately. So she's not going to be able to attend. Um, tom, one thing I did want to bring up that I wanted you to talk about is this race is also going to be the high school championship as well.
Speaker 3:It's also collegiate. It's the collegiate national champions as well. It's both.
Speaker 1:Okay, how does that? How does that work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, that's a great question. Uh, so the collegiate running association um this guy named Steve Taylor runs out of Pennsylvania. It is basically when kids are still in college trying to get them into to trail and mountain running. Uh, he hosts a national championship.
Speaker 3:last year with Cirque series, snowbird Um and I believe oakley won for for that, yeah, so it's surprising she doesn't want to come, because they do put up a three thousand dollar prize purse. Um, yeah, for the college kids. So if you've taken, if you've taken, a college class in the in the last 365 days, you're eligible for for that money. So it, so, it's, it's a, it's a big deal. Um, and then the high school um, there is a national high school trail championship. It's held in Salida, uh, colorado, every year.
Speaker 3:Um, and Paul is a huge fan of that. He was, you know just, is a huge fan of that. He was, you know just, he was the person in charge of the u18 usatf uh team for, for, you know, under under 18 kids. He wanted to make a regional. So we're like, let's do it, let's see what we can do. We're just trying to basically get more of a feeder program. You know what I mean. There's not a whole lot of younger kids in our, in our sport, that are going straight from high school or college into trails. There's always that road piece in between. I feel like, you know, everybody does their first 5k, 10k, half marathon, marathon. Then they hit trails. There's always, it always seems to be like that. Um, yeah, I definitely think there needs to be more of a feeder program in that, where they know this is available.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more, especially from the mountain, classic and vertical stuff that's a bit shorter. I think there's just like such an obvious kind of rollover, even from high school track and cross country. Cross country yeah, it should be a no brainer Right, it's not that hard to kind of move up and go into these distances like it's not like we're asking you to run 50 miles the first go.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, you know one thing I wanted to double back on. I gotta ask you this because now that the you know the long trail has been settled, it's been announced, we know who's going to be on the team and representing, was that you gotta say, like how stressful of a decision was that trying to figure out, like from an application perspective, like it couldn't have been an easy thing with all these people applying.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, and we had more people apply for just the long team than we've had in previous years. Apply for all four different views, which is crazy.
Speaker 3:Um yeah, so um the the amount of the depth of the resumes was was ridiculous. So I mean, of course you know the top two are already auto selected, so you have four. There's probably three that you know are shoe-ins. That last spot was so hard to do. It was, you know, any one of the 10 underneath could equally be the you know, the best choice of that for that spot.
Speaker 1:You got inside baseball. Who was who? How was the tiebreaker? How was that settled? Can you? Can you provide that information or no?
Speaker 3:I don't think it was the tiebreaker. How was that settled, can you? Can you provide that information or no? I don't think it was a tiebreaker. Um, I think it. I think what the tiebreaker was it was who was running what? Okay if, if they were committed to utmb, they probably got passed over. I think that was more more of a thing versus you know, if they were like, well, you know, I'll do western, but then I won't run again. You know, we reached out to every one of these people beforehand. You know you kind of do a little bit of a vetting process without making it too obvious, but you're like, oh, are you running? You know CCC, or are you running Western or what's? You know what's your, what's your choice for the summer? So it's, yeah. I think that that was the the biggest thing for the last, the last two spots no, it makes sense, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe. Like you know well, hopefully everybody turns up healthy, but man like if we that long trail team's gonna be nasty, so both it is, and we, I mean we did do two alternates as well.
Speaker 3:So backups, just because it's such a long season, I mean when we pick this in april, you, I mean mean people drop like flies look at, look at this race you know everybody's like yeah right. So you throw in Western and a few other, you know training runs and this could be. We could be 10 people deep before we get our actual team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's for sure, for sure. Um, okay, let's get into. I think we can. We can move on to like some storylines and stuff like that. I think there's some good information there. We did talk about the high school champs, which I was happy about. I got to get into the like some of the women man, like it's. We had a late sign up in Ali Ostrander, which I was happy to hear about. Like that's pretty.
Speaker 1:The women's side, this is going to be a race of like the old guard versus the new guard. And when I say old guard I almost feel like like ally rachel, like lauren anna, almost. And you've got like some of these new girls, um, like sophie, right, who's a trail team selection, emily clark, flannery, davis love, kyla, christopher moody, like a lot of like, really like new women to the scene. So right, it's going to be interesting. And the other thing too is like there's only three spots available with, you know, without grayson spots. So it's one of those, whether it be ali, rachel, lauren, anna, someone's not going to worlds, dude, that's going to be right.
Speaker 3:And then what happens? If we have, you know, because it's the collegiate, well, you know, I don't know all these people that are that are part of the collegiate, right, right, so you have some of these Richmond BYU, these tracks studs that come in and just throw down because one they don't know what this is going to be like. So, you know, is ignorance. Does that help you out? Not knowing that, how hard nine miles is? Um, yeah, they could. They could go out with them or go out super fast. And yeah, it's going to be interesting to see if a dark horse just comes flying out of nowhere from college.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, that's the question too is has that ever been done? Has there ever been an upset like that in our sport?
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:And the sport is so deep now, like there's so much talent coming to it that you know no-transcript no-transcript.
Speaker 3:I put Gibson in the middle, I put Allie Grayson, lauren and I don't. I don't mean age, I mean how many times have they been on on team USA together?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, so it's just those four every time. So that was our biggest thing is like just recruiting, like how do we get the next person Not so much to knock these people off, because they're all awesome, but it's like how do we get the next new story right?
Speaker 1:I have a prediction and I'm just going to throw this out early. I think Sophie Wright is the next one in my opinion. Former top five at Mount Marathon won a Cirque Series Alyaska. She's an Alaskan mountain runner very new to the scene. Been talking to her, I've heard her on the podcast a couple times now and just the you know like mile record holder um at her university, just finished college this year. I feel like I'm going to message her after this and be like yo, if you took a class in the last 365 days, you can. If you do well, you can get that money. So right, yeah, I think it's. There's some, yeah, there's some new names. I think we're going to see right up there in the top five of women that people have probably not heard of in the sport, which is gonna be cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the other question is too, like I haven't had anna on the pod. She comes on next week and she's she's in zagama right now. Like she's going to race zagama on not a ton of like, not a ton of training. Um, like a smaller ish build racing zagama and then turns around and comes right back. So that's gotta play into. Like a smaller-ish build racing zagama, then turns around and comes right back. So that's got to play into like a role, into like man. You're gonna be so tired at least I would be but you think so.
Speaker 3:Such a short distance? I don't know. That's the cool thing about sub sub ultra you know I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, use this example, nick, you can speak to this because, like you and I have both done the double between circ alta and then grand targi. Like I'm old, I like last year I was pooped like that week at targi, just like way more tired than I was going into alta, and it's a back-to-back race week. Did you feel the same way?
Speaker 2:you know, I think it's more manageable than than a zigama. To this, I mean, zigama is far longer. I mean it's it's a marathon, it's a long, that's a long time on feet, um, but turning it around and racing something shorter, I mean it's doable, I think for an athlete like anna um, but there's definitely going to be some fatigue that's going to set in and it's we'll see, I don't know, it could rev her up to like have the race of her life. We don't know, um, it is early in the season too. That's the one thing I mean. She, I don't know, has she done any other races this year?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. No, I was literally just perusing her struggle before we got on so honestly it might be.
Speaker 2:I mean, it might be good that she's ripping the band-aid off zigamo before this. It could honestly benefit her, I mean, if she recovers. It is a lot of traveling though, so we'll see. That's a big thing.
Speaker 1:I think a few things are is like I mean, this stuff bothers me, but I'm not sure if it bothers somebody like her. But like, cause I'm old right. Like you get to the point where, like travel, you get tired from travel. And then it's like, oh, you could possibly get sick, Right, If you're on a plane, and you're in a plane with other people and you know, and everybody's carrying something. And then on top of that it's like, oh, how do I adjust my diet? And then adjusting to the time change, so it's like all of those things I don't know.
Speaker 1:Listen, if you're in your twenties, like I feel like that's your, it's not that hard to deal with that stuff. Yeah, so I don't know, it's gonna be. Yeah, that's a good point, though for sure. Yeah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, I don't think any other americans at zagama this week, any anyone that's doubling with sunupi and zagama was she the lone american? Possibly, and she might. That's why I didn't even reach out to do a race preview, because I'm like no one's gonna be there.
Speaker 1:You know, it's gonna be all euros. So yeah, it's interesting um and christian. Christian was supposed to open up his season in italy. He had a stress response in his leg. Um, supposed to open up a series like last week in italy and didn't go, so and I talked to him a little bit and the feedback I got from him was just like we got to wait and see.
Speaker 2:So yeah, james, remember, when we chatted race preview maybe a month or two ago, we, we were talking about how spring was, you know, a lot warmer in the States than it was previous years and people were maybe flying a little too close to the sun. And I think we're kind of seeing that right now. And, like Tom, like Tom mentioned, yeah, like Tom mentioned, like it's it's a long season and I, some of these, some of these guys and gals might make it, but, um, we'll see if they can, you know, hold up, yeah, it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 1:I think the strategy is gonna be if you make the team, like you're gonna have, like I would take some, like I'm taking july just on, build and just like, focus on that and, you know, go to. If you're gonna go to broken arrow, then go to broken arrow, but like after that I would shut shit down for, you know, at least a month and rebuild, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the hope is that if people do get their spot, that they are prioritizing that maybe a little bit more. I mean, that's, that's the hope, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is interesting. We do have a lot of injuries more on the men's side this year, which is it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Like I was surprised with David Sinclair, like I was not expecting it know someone was bringing up I forgot what podcast I was oh, boulder boys, the new one that was just. Uh, today they were talking that there's a lot of injuries. They've noticed as well and they're like is it? Is it carbon plates? Is it? Is it the shoe technology that's letting us, like you know, push limits a little bit more? And maybe our body's not, you know, I don't know it's interesting.
Speaker 3:We just had this conversation about killies and calf injuries. Like I'm seeing them 10 times more than I've ever seen and I literally think it's just the foam. The foam is it. It's not a zero stack height, but I think that when it compresses in just a normal walk you're going negative and I don't think that they're accounting for that and it's you know you're going from. I mean, I've gone back back to older shoes just because I don't like that feeling. It's just an Achilles calf burn all the time. So I'm wondering if that new foam is just too soft.
Speaker 1:I think you're onto something there and I'll say I'll preface this. I rarely get injured, dude, and I've been wearing super shoes a hell of a lot more lately. I don't know. I'm not saying that's it, but I saying like maybe there's a small correlation there.
Speaker 3:like you never know like yeah, I don't think it's the carbon, I think it's the foam.
Speaker 1:I showed you those sock and he's I had what I forgot. Dude, insane. They're so soft, like literally softest shoes in the market. Yeah, so who knows? Um, oh, one thing I did want to double back to you boys. Um, I want to talk about weather. I've never been to New Hampshire at this time of year, tom, what's the weather looking like these days? Is it going to be?
Speaker 3:like Normally. It would be nice and sunny and hot. We've had a cold snap here since last year. It hasn't stopped being cold and raining. It's like Seattle here stopped being cold and raining. It's like seattle here, uh, so I I would guess it's going to be like high 60s and yeah it, it won't be anything crazy, but it's not.
Speaker 1:It might be perfect running weather, to be honest yeah, but what does that do for like mud on the course? Is it going to be like muddy at all, like nasty, or yeah?
Speaker 3:so I mean that first year we had the selection race I'm sure you've seen the videos. I mean it was. We were outside and pouring torrential downpour for two days, so I mean it can't get any worse than that. And it was an april race back in the day. So we had, I mean we had, you know, front end loaders on top of the mountain removing snow. Um. So so this you know. Then we moved to june. It's supposed to be fine. We'll see how that works out. The technical section will be fine. It's just all granite straight up, but the the glades will be will be real sloppy.
Speaker 1:Nice Carnage I like to see it. What do you, what are you guys thinking for speaking of carnage? Like, what do you guys think? Like you think the person leading the first, like men and women see, women, I feel like tend to race a bit smarter, but like men, wise, like it's gonna go out, it'll go out so fast like is the person just like we see in broken arrow right is the? Is the dude leading the race the first lap? The same dude leading the winning the race?
Speaker 1:I know I'm gonna say a hard no on that yeah, no, yeah it's, yeah, it's going to be carnage.
Speaker 3:Just because they don't know how technical that section, that second section, is. I think they're going to get eaten up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so curious, like to see like what, what goes on with that, yeah With with when people get to see that second loop and that, like if they go to turn it on on that. So we're going to find out. Boys, Guys, I got something funny to talk about, so in news I put this down in giant capital letters on my thing Rival Rewatch. So we got our boy, dan Kurtz, our New Hampshire main guy, and we got Mason Copey and I feel like Mason has achieved this new level, unlocked this new level of fitness with some crazy training he's been doing, and Mason and Dan kind of went head to head last week in a uh, it was the last challenge on Mount Sanitas and Boulder. Uh, nick, maybe give some commentary on Sanitas, cause I've never actually been on it. Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:It's, um, it's about a mile climb with about 1200 feet in about a mile, and then you come off the what is that? The East Ridge, and it's very, very, very technical for about maybe two, three minutes of like boulder hopping and then you finish it off with about a mile down, about 600 feet, and you're going to be dropping probably your mile PR more than likely coming down off of it. So it kind of like it really is kind of everything cindy just really does give you kind of kind of everything. So you got to be a stout climber and you have to have a hell of a downhill it's interesting I've seen a lot of folks like in, like in prep for like voluntary.
Speaker 1:Davis love went on this and she, um dude, she ran a 450. It was like a 450, 50 mile going down. So I was really impressed, I was like, so that's falling, that's not even running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some of the women are like crushing this. So I mean, like Dan, dan just like went outright disgusting on this and showed every bit of like the athlete that he is and ran a sub four minute mile on one of the descents. But one of the things that was interesting is Mason and Dan went forward on the same day. Mason got it. Mason ran 24 minutes 51 seconds, dan ran 25, 13. It's just interesting to me because we'll talk about the evolution of Mason and where he fits into this race. But it seemed like it really aggravated Dan. I talked to Dan after the fact and I think Dan wasn't necessarily aggravated by anything other than his effort, his climb. It was just in his head. It was frustrating. In quotes I have Dan's quote right here. Hats off to Mason.
Speaker 1:So frustrated with myself for not pushing harder yesterday. Probably will regret this right up, but I'm heated. Living out of the van just isn't worth it when you don't put it together on the day. Didn't have a good feeling today but figured I'd go up the climb and see if I had legs. I didn't and I bailed after popping probably mostly mentally 10 minutes in, walked around seething up the top a couple minutes when two ladies saw me. Whatever we can.
Speaker 1:We can end it there and then after that he proceeded to go run a sub four minute mile. Dan is so disgustingly fitted to fit and like such a good athlete it's not even funny. What I'm trying to get at is that, um, I think the fire's been lit for dan man like, and we have a little bit of a rivalry going into this race between mason and dan. I talked to mason ahead of time.
Speaker 2:Mason's very confident, so it's going to be very interesting to see this match up at the front of the race between these two and see where that goes a little bit to add there, um, I mean mason, he lives not too far from me, lives at altitude, um, where you know um, dan doesn't, and so I think, coming to centipede, I think that there it's. This is an equal playing field. Now they're both going to be at like c level, you know um, so I'm really interested to see there, because I think that was maybe why dan didn't beat mason. I don't know if it's fitness, I want to say it was altitude, but I think you're right, he's not used to that, that that burn in your lungs when you run up a mile and 1200 feet, like you're just not used to that and I don't think he was used to it.
Speaker 1:So that would be my excuse for him, but I know I think you're totally right. I think in Dan had even said this to me he's like I'm you, cause first of all we got to give him like his flowers, like the dude's only been in Boulder for so long, hasn't been there very long at all. And then, like he said to me, he's like you don't really know how to gauge that effort when you're so used to being able to gauge a certain effort going up, when you're, like for Mason, a better climber going into this race than Dan is right now. Or is it altitude and Dan is a better climber? So because we know Dan is technically, I would argue, one of the best downhillers in the world, like given after seeing some of his stuff.
Speaker 3:So I don't know. I guess the climbing needs to be defined. Climbing on just a straight road, dirt road? Are we going vertical on some serious nasty stuff?
Speaker 1:well, that's a big question too. So we, I really like I went into it, mason, and I asked him like, because, like, yes, he's incredibly fit as a lot of guys are going into this race. But how much specificity are you layering into this? Um, he's been doing some stuff up and down Green Mountain. Nick, you can speak to green better than I can. Obviously, there's a level of technicality to green that's a little bit different than other places, would you say that's East Coast, close to East Coast.
Speaker 2:I would say it's fairly close to the trails that he was on. There's a lot of different ways up and down. He was definitely. I think Kyle Richardson pointed him in the direction of some of the more technical, um variations of the route. Um, so, yeah, I would say it's, it's pretty similar, it's rocky, it's, it's very rooty, um, yeah, yeah, okay, all right, very east coast, yeah I think that was my big question with mason is, like we all know what dan can do on something like this.
Speaker 1:I think the big question with mason was can he? You know because, like, like tom, you sent me some of those photos, dude, like the roots and it's I I wouldn't want to run fast down that? That doesn't look very fun. Um, even going up it seems like a pain in the ass. So I just am curious to see if that's going to be a hang up. Um, but fitness is fitness.
Speaker 3:So, like I, don't know, you know. So you get those two. Who else? Who else are you? Where we go? Where else are we going?
Speaker 1:oh man, so I'm just so. I'm not picking yet, but like, just like out of in the men's of guys that I have my eyes on, um that I've spoken to personally, oh dude, remy larue is disgustingly good right now and finally came off that block at Alta and has had really solid training since His Achilles is in good shape. Tyler McCandless, andy Wacker, david Norris I think David Norris is incredibly slept on. Talked to him the other day, I think it was yesterday, and yeah, I mean he's just got a really solid approach to the sport, very level-headed, very calm. Kim Smith, as always, is going to be a contender. We got Taylor Stack and Talon Hull Talk to Talon Morgan, elliott Hawk Call, and then you have Liam Moreau as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say you were going to leave Hollywood out.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 3:He had his breakthrough race at Sunapee.
Speaker 1:I agree. No, I think Liam's as legit as it comes and he's a Bowerman guy. He's so fit, so fast, so complete. And you can't forget Jackson Brill as well. So there's at least 10 to 15, and I'm probably forgetting a bunch like 10 to 15 gentlemen in this, um, in the men's race that casey campbell's, casey campbell's.
Speaker 3:Another one. Yeah, casey campbell, I think son of p. Two years ago was also his breakout race and I believe they may disagree. I think he he came with max. They came on the same flight together. He and, I believe, casey let max win like beat him at the finish line I think, it was? Yeah, I think it was. Uh.
Speaker 1:There you go, sir that's really funny and you know what. That's actually interesting, because casey was someone I didn't profile and go into as deep on this one, so I'm gonna be kicking myself if he has an absolutely amazing day and we didn't. We didn't get him in there right um max, I can you confirm?
Speaker 3:I know Max Torres meniscus at Barkley. Yeah, I don't think he's going to raise this. Okay, yeah, he's, he's already had surgery, but he's not, he's not ready to run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't blame him. Um, all right, I got some specific questions for you guys. What do you think from a course perspective? Do you think this course I've heard it described as so fast I've heard described as technical You're the RD, so you know does this? Does this course favor a certain type of athlete in this sport, like in this field?
Speaker 3:No, I think you have to be a Swiss army Nice, that's a runner to do this one. I think, yeah, I mean that, I mean it's. Yeah, you have to be super fast, but you also have to be really good at ups and downs.
Speaker 1:I think that if you, if you great, you can be a great climber, but if you can't handle that glade section, it's over. Yeah, I think the most there's no hiding in this one, it's the most complete. Men and women are going to be made Like, listen, I don't care what team we send, but like the people coming out of this are going to be the best people in the mountain classic. Like I think we will contend for medals this year with the folks that are in this uh, that are in this uh race. Um, it's going to be crazy to follow along, but yeah, I, I, like I said there's, this isn't a longer race, this is a short race. Relatively speaking, it's at sea level. There's no hiding. You're either really good at most, you're completed everything and you're making the team, or you're going to get exposed and it's just not going to happen.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, if you, if you are, you know, if you go out hot and then you have to tiptoe to the down and then you go, you know, hot up again and you hit that technical section, I think, because in that technical section there is a downhill section. You do a saddle, you hit the top and you have to go down to get back to the summit. So there's a super technical downhill where you you're not going to be happy, it's, it's hairy.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, what do you guys think? Base fitness Are we talking? I mean, I've talked to everybody, like Andy and Andy's Mason. Most of these guys at the front end of the front end of the race, men wise, are sub 14 minute 5k guys, sub 30 minute 10 K guys and gals it's, you know, in that range, outside sub 16, 17 and that range. What do you guys think, as far as the base fitness, it's going to take to win this race?
Speaker 2:I'm going to say I mean 28 minutes, 10 K, a little over 13 minutes, 5k Wow, I mean, it's top top tier. I mean Andy, andy's been doing a bunch of road running uh as of late and he's setting PRs at 30, what? Seven, eight years old. I mean it's incredible. I mean, and I can imagine that a lot of these younger guys could probably keep up with him on the roads or around there. So yeah, I would say, like he did recently, I think he did a 15 K in uh like 43 something, which is just running. A 28 minute 10 K in there is absolutely insane. And then he also ran, uh, some race called the something 5,000. It was like roughly a 5k and he did that like just over 13 minutes.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's probably what we're looking at. That is so fast. Oh my God. Yeah, I don't know. That's, that's insane. It's going to be interesting to see how that transfers as well. Like I keep coming up with the same conversation. Like we've got Tyler McCann, we've got a lot of really fit and complete road guys. But how will that? Because this is early, we're still early in the season here and like remember, andy's only ripped the bandit off a big alta which is kind of it's mostly road, like it's it's dirt road, right, what is that going to look like in some of the technical sections? How will he have done some of the specifics? Enough stuff. Same with tyler. Like how is all this fitness?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but Tyler came to Loon and I think he plays second Dude Tyler's amazing, but it's also uphill. Right.
Speaker 1:Uphill is uphill. I think my curiosity is on some of the technical descending. How are these boys going to fare?
Speaker 2:I think that's the separation point. I really do. I think that that downhill is gonna what's gonna separate some people for sure because, like we have, like you said, we have some uphill monsters in this race like yeah, real deal. Like I mean tyler mccandless, like he back-to-back years going sub hour um at uh rendezvous, like insane yeah, yeah, tyler is, yeah, dude.
Speaker 1:I think he just won a half marathon or a marathon or came like he's. He's so good, yeah, he's so disgustingly good. And Andy's been on a tear. You've got Mason super fit and then Dan seems to have never lost a step at all. Dan's kind of the king of this. So, yeah, the mix is a lot of fitness. I don't know where Cam is at Like I said I still need to speak to him and where he's at kind of coming off the skis and kind of transitioning Dude. Remy LaRue is another one and David Norris, like Taylor Stack. I haven't talked as much to Morgan Elliott, so I'm not really sure. I don't even know if he's going to be there. I would guess he's going to be there, tom. Can you confirm? Morgan, morgan Is he?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he'll be there. I'm not sure how how he's feeling right now, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, He'll be there. It's a bummer, Um okay. So big question is do we see a career defining moment here, Like in someone in someone's career, whether it be men or women? Like someone new wins this race, someone we don't expect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I. I think there will be um win, or make the team. I think there's a big difference.
Speaker 1:Let's say, I don't know, I feel like it's so easy for me to pick a winner. I mean kind of kind of not like. I have an idea. I have like a really strong idea of who's going to at least get in the top three. Let's put it that way. But as far as like, like, for instance, and when I say like career defining moment, like, like, for instance, and when I say like career defining moment, like, let's say, mason wins the damn thing, I'm not saying he's going to, but if Mason goes on and wins it, I think that's a career defining moment, right.
Speaker 3:If um I believe I have 97 texts from you saying Mason's going to win this.
Speaker 1:I, I'm well. No, actually he's not my pick to win, but I am very, I am very. He makes the team a hundred per short, a hundred percent.
Speaker 3:You quoted Dan Kurtz earlier, so I'm going to quote you.
Speaker 1:Okay, here we go. Oh, did I? Did I give you my top four, like five different times that I've changed? Yeah, I've changed it multiple times, Dude.
Speaker 3:Mason is him.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, you know what it's, it's, it's so I'm such a fan of these people because, like you know, you get to know them and you have them on the pod and you chat with them and your peers and, like you have the conversation, it's like man, like Mason's confidence like really came through on me and I was like damn, um, some of these guys are just like really confident going in. So whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. Like you got, you got me convinced, you know. But yeah, I think someone's going to have a career defining moment. Maybe Dan goes and just slaughters everybody, right, See, I think it's going to be in the women.
Speaker 3:I think it's going to be the women. We're going to see somebody that we never. There's a couple in there that I have. No, I haven't. I don't know them. I apologize, but I mean who is?
Speaker 1:Brinkley? Who? Who is um brinkley? Who is it? Oh, gabrielle brinkley, right from boulder. Yes, right, yeah, reach out to have her on the pod. Not an easy person to get in touch with, didn't got anything back um. I am aware of her third at the pikes peak marathon last year, um, so podium. She's very legit. She's very young, so, yes, 100 a contender for the top five like I mean I, I would, does that, does that transfer over.
Speaker 3:Like I don't know anything, I know nothing about her in the boulder in the boulder circles I haven't heard all that's my honestly the first time I think I saw her name, but didn't register yeah, and then, like I don't remember this, but that Renna Swartz, she's run one race.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And she was 19. It was the Loon Mountain race and she won.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes what year was that though Was it 19. Okay, so I mean a year, was that, though? Was it 19? Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I mean there were still studs in there. I looked at the other people. I mean yeah, there were still some really good athletes in there. So I like there's just some people in there that I don't know that I think are going to surprise the women's. They're gonna change.
Speaker 2:I think the the team that we have okay I like it no, I are there, sorry are there any east coasters that james and I may not know? Any like local crushers?
Speaker 1:I was gonna say laurel moyer is a potential contender. Okay, there's one.
Speaker 3:Haley lives on the mountain, that's right. Yeah, so if there's going to be somebody that's local, that does really well. I mean, technically, lauren Gregory is from two towns over now.
Speaker 1:Although she claimed Colorado in our podcast, I was kind of surprised. She claimed like three columns. I was like oh, interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Um, corey Dow, I mean she was on team USA before. She lives in North Conway, okay so, there's, I mean people go hard man.
Speaker 1:The East coast is no joke, obviously.
Speaker 3:I mean I mean you know's, um, you have uh hannah roe also super fast. Um, there's a girl that hates downhill but loves the the uphill. Um, I mean she beat uh casey emmon by two minutes at Pac-Man Adnock World champion Casey Emin. I mean that's tough to do, yeah. So if she can get her downhill shoes going, yeah, like I said, I just think this women's field is going to be shaken up a little bit.
Speaker 1:No, I think you're right. I don't know. I think for me. I think you're. It's tough to say man Like you got to remember too. Like Lauren is like world beater last year, like goes and gets second at golden trail final, had some amazing races, like her ending block between headlands and going into the final was bananas. But she's been fighting off some stuff. You know, she seems pretty consistent in what she's doing now. She seems okay, she gets, she can run Um, but she's been kind of working through some injuries. So yeah, there are. There's possibilities for bad days for some people. There's no doubt in my mind. You know, I do have to say one. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta shout her, her out. Like obviously ali's, like hometown colorado springs.
Speaker 1:I did witness an ali workout the other day and I was astonished okay, ali mac is so fit dude yeah, always didn't like I shouldn't say refuse, because she's a friend of mine didn't want to do any pre-race uh interviews or anything like. She doesn't like media before. Uh, she promised me we would talk after, but I I literally watched like her demolish a stairmaster the other day for 35 minutes and I was astonished. So, yeah, I don't know, ali's pretty fit man, it's. Um, we're gonna see what happens though I like it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and I mean, and so, uh, ali o has been working with david, yes, so that's gonna be interesting to see if that all shakes out.
Speaker 1:She though, nick, didn't you say she just like came back or like was recently, just did a first workout in a long time, like she had kind of had a layoff in a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it was her first workout in like two months, I want to say, or something like that. It's. It's been a roller coaster for her, for sure, but she's been cross-training a ton. I mean we've seen people Remember Mika, he was cross-training on the hand bike and just came out of nowhere. I mean it's possible it's going to hurt her a little bit, but she's one that could very well come out.
Speaker 1:I also feel like with her and just like anybody, you wouldn't sign up for the race last second if you didn't feel like you could compete right, like I mean. That's kind of like my take on it, right yeah, I just I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like she's the type of person that, just like I don't know, maybe having david in her corner like just like shoot for the moon, kind of just yeah, swaying yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I don't know and she has her youtube channel and, like I don't know, maybe that like influences her to be like oh, I gotta like show them I can still I don't know, still do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a thought, I don't know yeah so we got alio, um a lot of like the usual subspecial specs right, like rachel, to my check who's been on. She's so consistent, been on every team. Um, yeah, I don't know, I kind of made my, I I made a top 10. I don't know if you guys, how far you guys went down the list, just five. Yeah, I think five is a safer bet. Obviously, it's super hard to uh to make a top 10, but I'm kind of curious.
Speaker 3:Tom, I don't know if you want to recuse yourself or if you want to, I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm absolutely going to recuse myself out of this one and you can. I appreciate you like maybe like ask questions and like pull, pull these ones apart. Nick, I want your top five. Let's hear what you got for the top five women.
Speaker 2:Top five women, yeah, so yeah, I'll preface this with I. I really think it's people that have like sort of been here before common names in the sport I. I personally don't think we're going to see somebody new up there, but that's just me. Um, uh, I. First. I have Ana. Um, I don't think anyone can beat Ana. Um, I think Lauren can give her a run for her money, but Ana has just this way of being able to turn herself inside out. She's a hell of a climber and she's just a mountain athlete. Um, so, yeah, I got on in first, uh. Second, lauren Gregory. I mean home turf for her. The injuries coming off of an injury, we'll see. Like you said, she had a killer final part of the season last year, so I expect her to kind of keep that rolling.
Speaker 2:Then Allie. Allie has, she's been here so much. This is nothing new to her. She's not going to be nervous. This is just another race for her. She's worn a USA kit too many times and I think that it's gonna happen again. Um, yep, yep. And then for fourth, another one rachel, to my check. I mean been there before. This is nothing new. She, this is what she does. I mean it's uh, it's in her blood. It seems like um. And then fifth, uh, I'll go a little bit of a low.
Speaker 2:Some local love here um flannery davis, yeah, I like that yeah yeah, she, she hasn't been here before, she hasn't done something like this. Uh, I guess last year with uh zerk series, that was kind of the first time and I believe she took what was it?
Speaker 1:seven seven top. She was in like the top eight seven, eight, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:Um, I think that this is something that she's like really on. It seems like so yeah, and I mean she has that marathon pedigree. She's been killing it the last year and a half. So, yeah, really excited for her and I think she could be an alternate potentially, if someone doesn't make it.
Speaker 1:I like it. I think you're right. So here's my question about Anna Gibson. And the only thing is and I have to ask her this, so I'm so curious because I've been peeling through her straw but she does not do a ton of volume. So it's either she's not posting all the volume or she's actually not doing all the volume. A lot of biking, not that much. She's like one 20 mile bike ride like two weeks ago or last week or something like that, and this is not disparagement anyway.
Speaker 1:Like I'm her biggest fan, like dude, I can't wait. Like she's a good friend of McElhaney, so I'm super excited to have her on the pod. But, that said, I'm just so curious how you could be that fit and that good with just that level of volume which is just hasn't been too crazy. So I don't know, it's going to be interesting and I think, round like from zagama, like either that helps or that hurts. Um, I am very much in your camp and we're like I think we're gonna see a lot of new names in the top 10, um, where a lot of strong competitors, maybe the top five. But I think, like the old guard, like your alley, your rachel, your lauren and, like I said, like maybe middle guard for for anna, like the level is just so much higher. I feel like for them that and they just have that experience that maybe that plays a role into a race like this. Like, think about it, like rachel, alley, rachel and lauren have made how many teams combined?
Speaker 3:like all of them, yeah, everyone that ever was right yeah yep so.
Speaker 1:So I just don't see. It's hard for me to imagine a world where Rachel, with her consistency, just doesn't get there, or Ali just doesn't make it happen, right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have a feeling we're going to see some of these new ladies just go out ridiculously hard and just turn themselves inside out on the first loop and then just have nothing left and just fall back and then you got the people that have been here before the alleys that just like boom.
Speaker 1:Ali really like literally has been there before she got second to Grayson, or in 2023 at Centipede, you know, and like that's that's tough. That's tough person to follow is Grayson. So yeah, I mean it's in. Like, has had great showings at Chiang Mai. Like Allie is always so consistent. So yeah, I, you know, and Lauren, based off of her season last year, it's like I, it's easy for me to like pick a top four or top three, I should say of like women that I think get the golden ticket or get get their spot on the world, um, but it's hard to say like all right, this, this person's going gonna be the one to take the job, right, um, because everybody, like everybody's so aggressive too, like ally race is so aggressive, um, she takes it out so hard, so it's like I don't know. And rachel's very rachel seems a bit calmer. Lauren seems in the middle, um, and I've never seen on a race, so I really don't know.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, I mean, she's like the ultimate competitor out of all these women. I really think on it is yeah yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna give you guys a top 10. I'm so curious I gotta, I gotta see what tom's face when I do this. Um, I'm gonna start, I'll start with 10 and kind of go down to my first place pick um 10th. I'm gonna go. Laurel moyer um, very consistent athlete. East coaster um, I think she probably I don't know she's hit or miss like sometimes really really solid. Um, like has had some great finishes. Like I think she won cirque brighton the year that I raced it last year. Um for the women. So like has consistency and can show up like in big races. But also there's like inconsistent at times. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens. Um ninth place, I'm going to go gablle Brinkley, like a big unknown. Like I said, third place at Pikes Peak marathon last year. Um doesn't have a lot to her name. Like kind of quieter. Um I mean.
Speaker 1:Eighth with Emily Clark, trial team elite selection, another new name into the sport. Um, emily Clark is very legit collegiate runner. She's coached um by MK Sullivan. Um, and, uh, tommy Sullivan, which is pretty crazy, and I can give some more commentary on her. Um, as we go. Sydney Peterson. I'm going to go seventh. Sydney Peterson is a Brooks athlete, uh, taylor stacks partner. Very legit, coming off a um very solid roadblock, hasn't raced yet. Lives in the Gunnison Valley. She's a product of Western. Very legit, very, very legit. Not a lot of East Coasters in here. In fourth I'm going to go Anna Gibson, and the only reason I'm going to go fourth as Anna is the first woman out is because of Zagama. So we'll see, prove me wrong. I don't know, but that's kind of my guess on that.
Speaker 1:The three women getting the spots going to Worlds I'm going to keep it with the old guard, lauren, rachel and Allie, and I think Allie takes the win. Allie, like I said, I just got to like it's home cooking. I got to personally witness an Allie workout recently and I was just astonished. So Allie seems to be in that Allie form from maybe 2023, 2022, 2023. I know she had worked through some injuries or an injury Actually kind of funny, similar like hip stuff to the stuff like I was working with just recently, talked to her about this and like I just think, yeah, her aggressiveness, that as long as she doesn't fade um with that aggression, I think she can might be able to actually even open a gap and like, maybe, like, actually have a statement. When is my just my hot take there?
Speaker 1:Um, a couple of people I glossed over when I was going up, um, I think are are two standouts of people that make a name for themselves in the women's field. One, like I said before, sophie Wright, alaskan runner, mile record holder at her college, just primed to do something, usually always consistently, a top woman at Mount Marathon. That race is so competitive and she's so young, has won Cirque Aliaska. Knows how to assert herself in these steep, hard mountain races. Alaskan mountain racing is different. I'm not saying it's East Coast, but that level of technicality is not something we have in the Mountain West. So if you can hang on that and compete against other women on that, I think that's primed.
Speaker 1:I had a conversation with her and this is a main Like. Her goal is to is to go for the podium and try to win this race. Um, I don't know, sometimes want is, is, can, can help you. It's what's between the ears that helps a lot. Um, so that's going to be very interesting. And I also have Flannery Davis love up there in sixth place. I think Flannery is very legit. Talk Um, and training is getting going very well. I worry with some of these athletes and the same thing I'm going to argue with the men that some people might be looking past centipede with the idea of the broken arrow, 46 K, in mind, um, and I think that's a really bad way to approach things. I think you have to be like super focused. So yeah, that's that's kind of my, my take on on the top 10. So also, tom, really quick, is there a chance? Grayson races.
Speaker 3:I say it's 50-50.
Speaker 1:You say it's 50. That's higher than I thought it would be Okay, all right, wow All right.
Speaker 2:Well, I know her new husband, logan Dykeman, signed up right Right, so maybe he wants to come, maybe he'll say let let's go, let's do this, and maybe she's planning on going and just making a really last minute decision.
Speaker 3:Yeah I mean, if you fly all the way here and you get there to I mean, we have early big pickup on on, you know, saturday I don't know how you would say no, like how you got to feel the excitement of everybody flying in and we're all out in that parking lot and I don't know I think with her, though, I feel pressure, right like I'm the world champion, like obviously I have this new diagnosis.
Speaker 1:Like what if I don't have the rate like she's? She dominates everything. Like she's so good at everything and so complete. And I think maybe the worry would be like what if I don't? I think I think that's the, but you're going to have to rip the bandaid off at some point in time before worlds.
Speaker 3:Right Like right and you have a safety net like why not give it everything? You have Cause, no matter what happens, if she has a bad race, she still goes like, so why not? You know she, you know, don't let that thing, that you know, don't let that diagnosis define you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like it's, you got it. Move on Time to hammer down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. So I've got going. Is Allie, Rachel, Lauren um on a first personnel and Grayson is the champion. So that's what I got for the women. Um, anything to add? Anybody got anything on that?
Speaker 2:No, I think it's a good list, tom's looking at me like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I felt kind of bad disparaging the east coasters, I don't know. I feel like, uh, well, we got lauren gregory in there, so that counts. Um, all right, let's talk men. Nick, you want to take it away on men?
Speaker 2:sure, yeah, yeah, I'll start at five this time. Uh, for fifth, I have Remy LaRue. Um man, he's been putting in some some pretty crazy workouts I've been seeing on his YouTube. Um, he was fifth in 2023. Um, yeah, I think he's going to come back and take and take fifth again. Um.
Speaker 2:Fourth, I have, uh, the Zerk series legend. In my opinion, one of the most like dominant up and down format runners in the US, that's David Norris. I think he very well could take top three. I have him in the fourth spot because it's really hard for me to to justify these next three and being ahead of them. But, yeah, third I have, I have Andy. I wanted to pick Andy to win. Third, I have, uh, I have Andy. I wanted to pick Andy to win Um, cause I actually think that he is like the fittest he's ever been, which is insane to think. I mean, he's done some pretty crazy things. Um, but yeah, what we've been seeing in training, it's just for me, it's the, it's the technical, it's the, it's the, it's the downhill. I don't know how he's going to be on that, but sometimes fitness prevails and you're able to make up for it. So we'll see. And then the.
Speaker 2:For second, I have Mason. I think it's going to be the Dan and Mason show. I think I'm excited for that. I think Dan has oh, he's feeling it. He wants this. I mean, he's a 2023 winner and so I have him taking first again. Um, he's been here before. I mean, mason's been here before too. I think Mason is is is making the leap Um, cause I believe he was like 10th in 2023 or something like that Um, but I think in the last two years, he's really made like a massive leap Um, and I think he's self-coached. He's self-coached right.
Speaker 1:I don't think he's working with.
Speaker 2:David? No, he's not working with David? I don't think so. Yeah, but yeah, the training I mean James and I have seen him be putting in it's crazy volume between the bike and running and I think, if anything, the preview that we saw at Sanitas, you know, a couple of weekends ago, if that's anything to come, it's going to be special. So I think those two are going to absolutely go at it. I can see mason, maybe, uh, being in first on the first loop and then maybe dan reeling in a little bit on the second loop. Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's a solid top five. Mine is very, very similar. Um, I think I think almost like my picks kind of like roll down into like the top six, just because, like I think. So one thing I will say is like so my fifth place who would be technically the last person selected for worlds, is to me it's a tie between andy and david. I can't figure it out like which one I want to pick. Like it's very hard, and the reason is is because, like so I'll just tell you what I have. So so for fifth place, like I said, it's somewhere between Andy and David. We'll get to more on that after.
Speaker 1:In fourth place, I have to go Tyler, and it's just because Tyler's always on the podium. Like Tyler might not win everything, but Tyler doesn't lose anything. Like he's always so consistent. He's also really smart. Like one of the things I really like about Tyler is his's very he's like race IQ is very high. So, like he told me, he's like the way I approach this race is different. He's like I'm not necessarily going to be racing to win, I'm going to be racing to get myself a spot on worlds. This is kind of like a prelim to get myself on worlds and then show up the worlds and rock the world. So I think his mindset is a little bit different to where Tyler might be playing it a little bit more strategic. That could hurt him or it could help him. So it's going to be very interesting.
Speaker 1:But Tyler, like I said, so consistent, he's always right there. He's always been kind of the heel to Joe in a lot of races. Right, he's always right there. So it's hard for me to not count him in. In third place I'm going to go Remy LaRue. So, yeah, it's hard for me to like not count him in Um. In third place I'm going to go Remy LaRue. I think Remy, for the Canadian, represents for the Canadians, gets on the podium. I think he's that good. I mean, look at what he did. It like cause. Like look at big Alta right, he got third at big Alta. That was a really tough race, a lot of figuring stuff out and he did it off kind of like a weird block right. It's also not like his primary, like racing strategy, and what I look at is how close he raced dan and he beat dan.
Speaker 1:They actually went back and forth um with alex ricard and they beat up on david sinclair, pretty bad at the canadian uh world or canadian yeah, the world champions, yes, last year last I was like september, october, and like that race I thought was very telling, like it could have just been like late season, but like Dan and him had some like really good battles, and Alex Ricard as well, um, and it just kind of showed like Remy is is like him as well, like he's at, he's at a pretty high level, um, and then now that he's had like consistency and more, longer time to train and like put a solid block in, there's no doubt Like he couldn't be on the podium. I think with him it's going to come down to like mental, like you already he's already going to worlds to go represent Canada. So it's like, do I, would I take as many risks as maybe some of the Americans? Well, I think that's a big question. I think, if we're just looking at this from a fitness perspective, I think Remy's on the podium for sure, um, and just like, look, dude, he raced eli relatively close and eli is the best 50k runner on the planet right now, so I'd put that as the american standard. Um, obviously it's a significantly different type of race, but fitness is fitness. Um, in second place.
Speaker 1:I am gonna go mason, and this was a hard one. This was a really difficult decision because I really wanted to put mason in first. I just wonder, like where, like what that did with Dan does just light a fire under Dan, like Dan. One thing I really appreciate about Dan is he's very open, he's very honest, he talks about his feelings, talks about what he's thinking, talks about his training and I think that one I think that's the neatest thing like probably aggravated the hell out of him so he's probably out for blood. Wants to win. Mason's really complete. That is not the same Mason that even like I raced last year at Cirque Series Alta, like that is a different Mason in the best way possible, like the most complete, probably the fittest, best version of him. So Mason could win. I do just think Dan's a little bit better on the descents and I think the uphill is not going to be as much of a problem for Dan as it would have been in Sanitas. So I'm going to go Mason two, dan one. And yeah, I think that puts that rivalry where it is and, like I said, it's going to be the last spot will go somewhere between David Norris and Andy Wacker.
Speaker 1:I just don't know. I think contenders as well. You can never count out a Cam Smith. You can never count out a Taylor stack. We'll see what happens with Morgan Elliott Hawk, call Hawk. I was really long on like going into this race. He didn't have the race he wanted in Italy last week and I wonder like maybe he still needs to figure stuff out on the big stage. I mean he did get second at snowbird last year at the U S mountain running champs to behind Christian, who was a very healthy Christian. So I don't know, man, this is, this is this is a really tough one.
Speaker 1:I was still lovely amount Still lovely amount I did. I have Liam in my top 10. Well, you know what dude Like dude like josh, um, uh, what's his name? Josh uh, josh uh, was it potch in his name? He beat liam at the 50k at um, yeah, gorge and that had me wondering a little bit like how's everything going?
Speaker 1:how's that build? Like maybe that was a fluke, how did that work? Potvin, josh Potvin, I just had him on the podcast. Sorry, it makes me wonder like where we're. Like the thing with Liam is like he's he's so good at races like this, like he's always been consistent, like he used to go to those NARNAR races that one time was the.
Speaker 1:U S mountain range champ. It's had good races there. I just don't see, I don't know, man it's. This is a really tough one. It's hard for the C, you gotta remember. Liam doesn't display a Strava publicly, so it's always hard for me to kind of gauge that as well. I don't know, what do you think, tom?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I. I mean I agree with the Dan courage. I mean I don't. I don't think I think he's home now or he's going to be home. I think I bet you he's on that course this weekend.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't be surprised, right? Yeah, I know he, he like I don't know there's something to be said about, and you know what the thing is about Dan too. Like there's no doubt in my mind he makes the team. I do think he wins this. But like, just because like there's no doubt in my mind, like he didn't really have a great race last time around, I think he didn't. He dropped last time around, he got sick or something like that at the last worlds. So like he hasn't been able to put his full ability on display yet on the world stage. So like him to get over this hump and then go back there, I think would be like a huge character arc for him in his story.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I was just looking to see where Liam was fourth at son of B last time.
Speaker 3:Kurt, kurt, uh, ricard Elliot, liam, any, any, any beat Remy.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't think it's the same Remy either, though I think, Remy's evolved a lot.
Speaker 1:I think Remy's gotten significantly better and you kind of see it like this year, like with big Alta, like this year, like with big Alta, I think he's starting to figure it out. Like that was a very competitive race up front. Like you're talking to Ryan Becker Granted, it wasn't the best version of Ryan Becker but like still like Eddie Owens, I mean David Roche too, and David Roche was like, yeah, he blew himself up, but like David Roche is a beast yeah, there were some dudes, so I don't know. I'm curious to see. I think my big question is is like, where does david norris fit in to this? Because david could very well go win.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've all seen him at mount marathon and like he's beaten like the best versions of, like darren thomas, he's beaten the best versions of max king. He also has a kj record, or maybe he took the max king, but it was originally a kj record, originally beat the KJ record on Mount Marathon and it's just so steep and so technical. It is Alaskan mountain running at its finest and David is really hard to beat. Like you got to remember too, dude, he raised Patrick really close last year at Cirque Brighton and beat Philemon. That's impressive. Oh, he's legit and I think he's like one of the most slept on dudes in this field.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, he hasn't put himself out there. I think this is kind of the first time that he's like truly, truly put himself out there.
Speaker 1:And like I asked him like are you just like having fun now in your career? He's like, cause he's. I think he's like mid to late thirties. He's like, yeah, dude, I not wasted. But he's like I worked for so much of my life to try and make the olympics I think his wife is an olympian, if I remember correctly um, in in, uh, skiing, um, nordic skiing, and like you're just talking like someone that just like hasn't figured out. Like he's always on the bike, he's always running, he's always doing his stuff. Uh, it just depends on like, what version you get. Like, if you get like the, the, the most tip top version of him. Like he's, he's not only going, he has an ability to win this race. Um, we'll see if, if it's the same guy that won and set the record amount marathon last year. So, um, yeah, I'm interested to see where talent hole goes to. He looks um, he, I think I I raced him last year at Grand Targhee. He's pretty legit, he's always up there.
Speaker 1:Brooks Rudder very solid. I think he's had great showings at Broken Arrow. Yeah, pretty solid.
Speaker 3:I think the whole Brooks team is going to be here.
Speaker 1:They are. They're supposed to have a house and they're all going to be doing the house thing, which is cool. I like to see that. That's kind of one of my favorite things is like, there, that brooks investment into sub ultra has really, you know right, kind of moved our, our elevator, our little sport. So, yeah, that's all I got for the men's picks. Is there anybody you think we left out? We did leave out liam.
Speaker 3:I do feel bad about that go back and yeah, I don't know, I keep going back and look at liam's results and I'm like so he came in fourth after after he had done their vertical the day before then he went, and then he went the next weekend and came in third at breakneck point like super technical courses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're right. You're right, and like he's, he is a pacific northwest guy. Those courses translate better than they would like in colorado, if you will like, as we're pretty, second at gorge, first at the fireline trails time trial last week. Let me ask you this, so we know mika's out as well where does jackson brill factor into all this?
Speaker 3:because he's a former, he's made the team before I think he's a wild card, I like he doesn't post a whole lot, he doesn't say a whole lot, he just kind of goes out and crushes. He's like max right, like he just does everything, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, ooh, I do want to give a shout out to Scott killings, killing, uh, killington Smith, uh, 20 year old kid, he's so young man, he's um, like he. I'm trying, I was trying to talk him out of it, though he's going to race at Soonapy. Very good kid, like he got, I think, top 10.
Speaker 3:Racing what?
Speaker 1:Scott.
Speaker 3:No racing. What race he's racing at Soonapy? God damn it. No, I'm sorry, you almost made the whole one man. You almost made it.
Speaker 1:He's got to get heart surgery, but he wants to race Soonapy instead. I was like, dude, you should probably do the heart surgery. Um, cause he's got. He's like yeah, he's been posting stuff on Instagram Like I don't. He's like could someone run with me? I don't like, cause he like passes out on the trail. I'm like dude, this you might not want to race, that, you might want to just go get your surgery.
Speaker 1:And yeah, young kid, though, like all the promise in the world, he's very talented, insanely talented. He's from, uh, kind of like that oram utah where, um, oh yeah, christian and the other boys are from, so yeah, shout out to him that's wow, he must want it. Yeah, yeah, he really wants it, I. And then hawk we already talked about hawk. I'm trying to see if I'm just like on uh joan. Yeah, oh, dude. Yeah, we got to give joan some love. That's another dark horse that can put it together possibly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think he has a chance to back up what he did at Zerk. I think this is his opportunity. Do you know about?
Speaker 1:him.
Speaker 2:Tom.
Speaker 3:No, so his kid.
Speaker 1:His name is Joe and DeLeon. He's boys with Cade Michael. I'm like the biggest fan of this guy. He's like the kindest human you'll ever meet, even though he ignored my text message to get him on the podcast. But anyway, he doesn't like. Look at his phone. Apparently, I've heard from many people he doesn't.
Speaker 1:Anyway, long story short, this kid shows up last year to Cirque Basin, which outside of I mean my guess was outside of Snowbird. This was the most competitive one because Patrick and Phil Amon were there. Everybody was there. It was a very deep one. I think he got second right. I think he did their second or third. He beat Joe, which is a very difficult thing to do, and I think yeah, I'm pretty sure he was second behind Patrick Beat Phil Amon. It just hasn't put it together since, but he's working on it. I think he had a good race of the gorge 30k, which I think you were in that race, tom, with him like you probably saw him at the front um. He blew himself up, though, and then anna got the best of it. I think one overall um, but had he not blown up, probably would have had a great day out there. He hasn't shown this season yet like who he truly is. In my opinion, I think he just needs to pop one off. Um, just hit one out of the park. This could be it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, the kid lives at 9,000 feet in Crested Butte. He's being coached by Eli and Tabor. It's, he's. He's got everything he needs, all the tools executing Yep.
Speaker 1:I can't believe I missed that name when I was looking through here. Is there anybody that doesn't have an ultra sign up or like has a 0% right?
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, there's always one.
Speaker 1:I also want to call out a Devin pancake, with the last, the best last name in the entire sport. I'd say like his best race was like a 50 K. He ran against Peterman pretty close as like a total noob. He's like a 24 year old kid. He's uh, um, excuse me, he's a um trail team elite selection for this year. I don't know, you know could never know, could mix it up.
Speaker 2:Is he? Has he done anything like this before? Any up and down style?
Speaker 1:short, no, okay I don't think so. No, but he could.
Speaker 2:He could find his thing. You never know. He's talented, yeah who's?
Speaker 1:this zach eronson, kid from.
Speaker 3:I didn't see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is another one we missed, guys. Zachary Erickson got third last year. He's from Orem, utah. He got third at Cirque Snowbird, which is US Mountain Running Champs. So that would have been right behind Hawk. So that would have been. He's on the podium. So that would have been Hawk, christian and him. Yeah, I have no idea who this kid is, so 24-year-old, so that could be a dark horse right there, who knows, dude.
Speaker 3:Ben Robinson we didn't mention.
Speaker 1:We do want to call out Ben Robinson, former Hoka athlete he's always so consistent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like Ben. Another one was Casey Campbell. He was eighth in 2023. Yeah, so he.
Speaker 1:another one was, uh, casey campbell he was eighth at um in 2023. Yeah, so he's been here from oregon. Yeah, you were talking about him a little bit tom like yeah, I don't even like, just another really consistent dude like right and um, yeah, he, like I said he came with max.
Speaker 3:I I didn't know who he was. Uh, they just kind of bummed around all all weekend and then they basically just ran together the entire race. I think, if you look at the results, I think it was like one second. I think Casey just kind of slowed down and let Max go.
Speaker 1:I mean he's legit dude. He beat. He did beat last year at mammoth chat hall and Fred tranchard and patio. Leary and Roberto de Lorenzi Um so ran a top.
Speaker 3:He was just second at for minimal 50 K.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, some some. He's got some legit results. So yeah, he's another one. I don't know, man, I hate picking these races. It's always so hard Cause I'm always wrong. Usually, let me LaRue is is my best selection. He always comes through for me. He came through for Big Alta. I don't know, we'll see, maybe this one is much easier. I feel like we're a little more dialed on this one. Maybe it's an easier selection Cool. Cool, I think that's all I got boys. You guys have anything to add?
Speaker 3:I'm good to go. I'm going to keep plugging away and loading new hauls Sweet Well.
Speaker 1:Tom, thank you so much for coming on. Nick, thank you as well.
Speaker 2:This will be out next week, guys.
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