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The Steep Stuff Podcast
David Norris - Pre Sunapee Scramble Interview
David Norris might just be the most versatile endurance athlete you haven't heard enough about. The Alaskan-born mountain marathon record holder brings an Olympic-level Nordic skiing engine to the trails, creating a unique skill set that makes him a formidable competitor at the upcoming Sunapee Scramble World Team Trials.
What stands out immediately about Norris is his refreshingly balanced approach to both life and sport. While maintaining a full-time banking career, he trains at an elite level, embracing not just running but also mountain biking and gravel cycling. "Just for pure joy and being outside, mountain biking and gravel riding is some of my favorite stuff to do in the summer," he explains, revealing how this multisport lifestyle stems from his cross-country skiing background where diverse training methods were the norm.
The conversation explores how Norris's skiing career created the perfect foundation for mountain running success. Years of training to "redline" at high lactate thresholds before recovering and pushing again translates beautifully to the mountain classic format where athletes max out on climbs before recovering on descents. This explains his dominance at events like Mount Marathon and his competitive performances against specialized runners at races like Cirque Series Brighton.
Perhaps most compelling is Norris's perspective on competition itself. After multiple heartbreaking near-misses as an Olympic alternate in skiing, he developed a profound understanding that "success comes from the pursuit of those goals, rather than just a true measurement of 'did I achieve these goals?'" This wisdom allows him to approach the World Team Trials with both serious preparation and genuine joy, focused on the process rather than putting pressure on specific outcomes.
Whether you're a competitive athlete yourself or simply appreciate authentic approaches to sport, Norris offers valuable insights on balancing ambition with enjoyment, specialized training with multisport variety, and professional obligations with athletic excellence. Listen now to discover why this mountain marathon champion might be about to make a significant impact on the international trail running scene.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I am so excited to bring you guys a Sunapee Scramble pre-race interview, this one with the grandmaster himself. Alaskan-born mountain runner, mountain marathon champion and course record holder, mr David Norris. David has had a whole previous life in a completely different sport, as a, uh, as a Nordic skier. Um, at an extremely high level, um, at that Olympic, almost Olympic level. Um, so trail running is just something that he does, yes, professionally, but also to have a lot of fun. Um, it was super fun getting to catch up with David and learn more about him. Um, I would say arguably one of the best mountain classic athletes as far as that distance in the country, if not the world. Like I said, mountain marathon record holder.
Speaker 1:Others who have held the mountain marathon record, including the ones he'd broken from David it broke from Killian to catch up with David and learn where his stoke level is going into Sunapee I know he's very excited to try to make a US team and go represent Team USA over in the Pyrenees this summer. Yeah, we talked a lot about strategy of the race. We talked about his plans for going out there, kind of what he can transfer almost from that Alaskan background of his, where the mountain running is just different, to bring to the East coast where, uh, you know, some of those trails are going to be quite technical, especially, uh, the second loop, ascent, um, and just kind of where he can kind of, you know, transfer his background into, uh, racing at a high level. So it's going to be really fun and exciting to see David throw down at this race and, uh, yeah, I hope you guys enjoy this pre-race interview and we're wishing David the best of luck. David Norris, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you, buddy?
Speaker 2:Great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, excited to finally have this convo. We're doing all these interviews with all the elite men and women leading up to the Soonapy Scramble, so it's exciting to have this conversation and, yeah, man, this is going to be a fun one. What's the uh, if you don't mind me asking, like, what's the Stoke level for soon to Pete's? You know, just a few weeks out?
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm, yeah, stoke is high, like just to see how deep the start list is right now and then kind of like no, that I'm. I've kind of focused more on running this past winter and spring more than ever. It's gonna be like it's gonna be a fun kind of first little like check-in to see what the training's done for sure, for sure dude, I didn't realize this until I just happened to go back and like look at, ultra, sign up.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize you ran the royal gorge groove a few weeks back, that the 50k it was just like a just an easy little training run for you, or like what was, uh, what was the intention for that? Just a long effort yeah, kind of like.
Speaker 2:I know that you know, going out from like my front door I wouldn't put in that same type of effort. So it's a good excuse to have a good race effort. Try some like nutrition over 50k and then also like it's in a really sweet area. So my wife and I were like, well, if we go down to the race then we can mountain bike in Salida and have a nice little two nights of camping.
Speaker 1:Dude, one thing I really enjoy about you is you kind of do it all. You're not just a runner Obviously you have a ridiculous skiing background, but also you're really big on the cycling scene as well, really into the cycling, maybe talk about that a little bit. You're a balanced athlete. You kind of just don't focus on one sport, you do a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes it's almost challenging because the more I get into running, the more I see the value and specificity of training. More I get into running, the more I see the value and like specificity of training. But like just for pure joy and being outside like mountain biking and gravel riding, is some of my favorite stuff to do in the summer. And then it's it's my wife like primary thing in the summer is mountain biking. So it's one of those things like I'll try to get the morning run in that I aim to do for the key workout of the day and then in the afternoon ride with her and just like be open to like however long, however hard we're going to ride, I'm game for it. So it's kind of just balancing that.
Speaker 2:But I grew up kind of pacing my older siblings around and they were multi-sport athletes and so that was just kind of pay to my older siblings around and they they were multi-sport athletes and so that was just kind of the norm and and ski racing, cross-country skiing, really like it rewards being a multi-sport athlete and using lots of forms of cross training to build fitness in the summer. So I've kind of just like made that part of like my lifestyle super cool yeah, I don't think people realize like just how much of it.
Speaker 1:Like you can get an enormous engine like from gravel biking and mountain biking and like it's just like, it's a perfect like for me it took. I just got injured and I was playing around with it and I was like man, like I didn't realize, like how much fun you can have on a gravel bike. It's kind of like, yeah, it's kind of more fun than running in a lot of ways, just because you could go further and see more places. So it makes it a little more interesting. Plus, you can like maintain fitness with it. So, yeah, man, I'm a big proponent of the cycling. It's, it's not a bad thing, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, so I uh you, so it's interesting with you. I uh I.
Speaker 1:I think I raced you at cirque series, brighton last year. I saw you, you uh, where you had a great race with Patrick and beat Philemon and like it just seems like the mountain classic distance really compliments you as well. Obviously, on top of that, you've had you hold the course record and have had so many amazing finishes at Mount marathon. What is it about the mountain classic that you just have figured out Like it's just a very interesting thing is you have dialed. It seems like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean, like that race in Brighton with with Patrick and Philmon was I mean it shows showed me like what I have dialed and what I still need to improve Cause like those guys were really really strong on the cat tracks and gradual train, uh, but then, like in the technical train, I was able to close back and catch them and so we actually were leapfrogging a lot because it was so kind of like condition dependent on where our strength slide or weaknesses showed.
Speaker 2:Um, but I think, with like the ski background, like I just have big engine and kind of the power strength to like do vertical K as well, um, and so that's like where mountain marathon like that's basically just a vertical K with with like a gnarly downhill back to the finish, um, and and like with ski training and living in alaska for most of my life, like that was just kind of like the backyard workout that you did all the time was like bag a peak and run down a field or whatever it was, um, and I guess that the mountain classics like the right duration where you got like you're kind of maxing out, like you're redlining every climb and then trying to recover on the descent and then do it again.
Speaker 2:Um, and that's a lot like cross-country ski racing. Like our longest race is 50k, but we were training basically for 10 and 15 kilometer races and then you just stretch out for the 50k when, like, you get those opportunities to do those those longer races, um, so I think, like being able to redline, like you know, be like up to the gills and lactate and then clear it and try, try to do it again, like that was basically our ski training and that was like my life for 15 years basically, so, like it, it kind of transitions well to the running side for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it compliments very well, let me ask you this with with training, are you still like? Cause I know, I mean I'm I'm kind of a noob, I don't know too much about Nordic skiing, but I do know there's a large base of like heart rate training and heart rate based stuff.
Speaker 2:Do you still do most of that with your training or no?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I mean Norik, skiing traditionally is really heart rate driven and you know, like it's kind of the only useful metric because, like snow condition changes so you can't necessarily go on pace Um, and then like we don't have power, like cycling. But I actually I kind of grew up in a system that we wore our heart rate monitors but it wasn't really like um, so black and white. Like we used perceived effort a lot and then there were certain camps I was at where we did use lactate um, but like probably the last five years of my ski career, I didn't really wear a highway monitor at all. I just went completely off perceived effort and I really like that style.
Speaker 2:Um, I've kind of geeked out a little bit more in the last year wearing a highway monitor again and I'm not necessarily like using it to dictate my paces or workouts, but I'm kind of looking at it throughout the workout or afterwards just to try to like start learning, because I found, like in the 50ks, like an hour into the race I feel like I'm going just way too easy, but then three hours into the race I'm often regretting how hard I went in the first 45 minutes or something.
Speaker 2:So I'm trying to like pay attention and be like okay, so like is one 60 like a ceiling I should set for myself in the first two hours of the race, or should I ignore it and just go with the flow and try to keep up with my competitors? You know I'm still learning and trying to figure out what's right, but I also enjoy all the data and stuff like that when I have time to look at it.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, right? Yeah, I don't know I've gotten more this year into just paying more attention to the heart rate, but that's because I just don't come from that background in the sense where I've come from more of a running background with perceived exertion and that's what coaches always push, and I'm like that makes a difference. But I don't know, I think for like certain things like in development, like the heart rate stuff has really helped me like like just trying to figure out like like threshold heart rate and stuff like that. I gotta ask you. So this is really interesting.
Speaker 1:You've come from like this background of like these really like shorter races you've done, obviously, you've dabbled in the 50ks and you've ran some longer stuff as well, some golden trail series races, but like not as much as to like some of your competitors and I think that's made you a little slept on in this race. And it blows my mind because, like I easily have you as a pick to go make this world's team like what? What does that mean to you if you go make the team like? If you go represent Team USA in September?
Speaker 2:I think it's almost like one of the things that maybe like the excitement or like happiness, that like reaching that goal. I don't even know. I think I never put it as like a real goal, like at no point in my life was I ever thinking like I want to make a world's team in running.
Speaker 2:It was always just all my goals were purely cross-country skiing and then in the last few years it's like I almost feel so, um, like uneducated or like uninformed in the trail running space as, like, compared to how much I know about cross-country skiing, that this is just like this whole new, like world to me, and so so I'm very excited about all of it.
Speaker 2:Like running a new trail, signing up for races I've never done before, like it's everything's just very fun to me. Right now. I feel like like really green in that regard, like on the race side of things, even though, like, I've played miles in my legs and have done all the races in Alaska. But like, yeah, like, yeah. But I would be so excited, like, and clearly it is a goal for me I signed up for a sooni and then also Broken Arrow to give me those opportunities. But also, knowing that they're world trial races, I kind of just want to go head to head against a bunch of the best guys in the country and just see where I stack up. I think that's also like, even if I don't make the team like just knowing where I'm at, it's going to help me with like training and kind of like my motivation going forward.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to me, cause I think this course just like suits you really well. Just it's I mean, it's obviously it's it's not Alaska, but like there's some like tricky downhill sections on one of the loops, like I guess on both of the loops, I don't know. I got to ask you this. Like it's there's going to be some strategy in play here, because it's a two loop course. Right, it's not like an up down where in the tradition, where you're just throwing yourself off the mountain and then throwing yourself off of it. Like there's a little more to it. When it comes to like racing, something like that, usually the person leading the first loop might not be the person winning the race, do?
Speaker 2:you have any strategy, you'll probably throw into it when it comes to a race like this.
Speaker 2:Um or no, like I guess I'm not really sure what the course looks like. Like I've had some people that have done it before message me and be like it's basically like a road race and then other people tell me it's really gnarly. Um, but I do think like speed is really valuable on this course. Um, and I think for me a lot of it's probably just stay and relax the first lap and then hammering maybe like I don't know, a lot of times I just kind of think, like on the final uphill, if you're the first to the top on the final main climb, like you've situated yourself to probably make it to the finish in a good position. Um, and that's being said like with a technical downhill and stuff, like often I won't lose positions in the descent, but like Brighton when it finished on a cat track.
Speaker 1:So fast yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who is? Was it Philemon or Patrick? Philemon got third right. Yeah, I held him off, but he was closing on me fast. And on that cat track my Strava told me I ran my fastest mile of my life.
Speaker 2:And I was like I felt like I was just like sacrificing my feet to try to. You know, I was like I'll do whatever and, like you know, almost hearing my own feet slap in the ground to try and hold them off. So there, there is some interesting stuff there, but like, uh, yeah, I'll probably just play it by ear, really, um, like I know some other races, like with christian allen, he like went off so fast off the like initial cat track and it's really impressive and humbling to see that. And then hopefully there's some steep pitches and things like that.
Speaker 1:That suit my strength as well yeah, no, I think it's smart, I don't. It's interesting too because it's like I think of.
Speaker 1:I don't think of this as a circ series race, but I just think of like the way those races run, where, if you don't put yourself in the race and me, almost immediately, like it can get away from you right, like I that was something like I had a hard time figuring out last year, just like very early on initially, like there, there's, it's, you have to treat it like an 800 meter, like immediately, and if you don't like you're, you're not going to get yourself into the race. So, yeah, it's interesting the strategy you have to take with these, like these super short races, and how that plays out.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah let me ask you this um, are you going to go out super early, like I know a lot of guys are going out on? It seems like the trend is going to be go out on Thursday, races on Sunday, so that gives you a few days to like play on the course. Are you going to go out like in that range, or um?
Speaker 2:I'm leaving Friday evening or Friday afternoon after work, so I'll get there, I'll get. I'll stay in Boston Friday night and then drive up saturday. Um yeah, right now I just I'm kind of tight on leave time with work and stuff and so like I'd love to preview the course and hang out, but I I feel like I travel well, so I should be fine, gotta be.
Speaker 1:Then go check out what I can let me, me ask you this, cause you do uh, yeah, man, like you have like a big boy job and you train at such a high level. I know we talked about a little bit about this before we got the pod started, but like, maybe talk about how you're able to balance all that.
Speaker 2:Like, obviously it's, it's not an easy thing to do, so yeah, well, before before I started recording I said like I mean, I can do it because I don't have children. But also like probably the big thing is like my wife is exercising before and after work as well, and she's a full-time physical therapist and so we kind of just have that like routine of life. I guess that we like get up early, we might jog together, ski in the morning, whatever it is, and then after work we kind of plan some kind of exercise as well. And in the winter I'm doing almost all those activities with Jessica, but like in the summer, with more running, I do have to kind of do more stuff on my own. But yeah, we kind of just make, make that a priority and then try to keep up with everything else.
Speaker 2:Um, and I feel like it sometimes that for me, like especially becoming a full-time lender at the bank, like that's meant just sleeping less, like when I was ski racing I was I would fully take advantage of like getting my eight hours of sleep at night and then like an hour nap during the day, like bad time for it.
Speaker 2:I I love napping and all that type of stuff, but um, but I also have just found that like I'm more resilient than I thought I was for the most part and like can handle it and can fit more into the day and survive like I feel. Like 10 years ago I was like no, like I'm, I'm gonna sleep for like eight to nine hours every night and take a nap, but but yeah, I've been healthy, not getting sick and stuff like that. So like yeah, knock on, knock on wood, and yeah, it's, it's working out. Um and then and then my wife and I have a coaching company that we do on the side and that's keeping us busy as well. But it's kind of like fun, like we just make dinner and talk about it and like write plans for folks, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. So, besides broken arrow and Zunipi, what else do you have on the schedule? Are you going to go back to Mount Marathon this year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am. So Mount Marathon and then OCC at the end of August, so that's like I guess initially that was like the big target for me, but then, like I don't know, I can't help but be super excited for Zunipi and Broken Arrow and then Mount Marathon's like always awesome, uh. So yeah, those are kind of what's on the calendar now and then, depending on world champs, um, I'll I'll for sure find some race to do later in the fall, just because, like yeah, it doesn't feel like that many races on schedule for me.
Speaker 2:Nice any cirque series races you think you'll hop into, or that's gonna depend on what happens on the schedule yeah, I think maybe, depending on the schedule, maybe the the last one or two, like the Crystal Mountain in Washington, maybe try to go there, but yeah, I might just play it by ear. It's kind of changed a little bit too with, like I'm not a title sponsor for Cirque anymore. Yeah, that kind of like changed a little bit of like the incentive to get there and try to represent. But I do love those races and julian's always been great to me and just the whole that community is really cool.
Speaker 1:I like those guys it's funny, I've been like I've brought up. The last time I talked to julian, I brought up are we gonna get another? Like like race in colorado? And I was like dude, like steamboat's the place to do it. Like Like why that would be cause it's a little bit lower altitude, I don't know. I just feel like it would be such a good spot and it's such a cool town. So we got to. We got to like campaign for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've pushed, we'll say. We'll say it would be fun. What's, uh, what's the race day shoe going to be for you?
Speaker 2:shoe gonna be for you. I'm not totally positive. Um, if I don't think I bang up my feet too much. The cloud venture peaks are kind of like the lightweight, like most nimble shoe, um. But then in june we're coming out with some new shoes that folks have been racing in but haven't been released. Um, but the there's the cloud ultra and then the cloud ultra pro, and the ultra pro is like kind of the more nimble, like super shoeish type, uh, chelsea that we have. I really like those, so I'll be in one of those, um.
Speaker 2:So we'll see I'm gonna bring them all out and then just go like run around on saturday, check it out, see what works no, I got you dude on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like on's got some, uh, like some cool new tech coming out that I've kind of like seen on social media pop up here and there, so it's, it's gonna be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you like?
Speaker 1:that that trail team like on's pretty legit. Man, like you've got jeff uh, I mean both jeff moguvero and jeff cole, like it's.
Speaker 2:It's a deep team, so it's got to be pretty fun, right yeah, no, it's a great group of people and it's been nice like between the third series and then like ocp, last year we had a house um for everybody involved in utmb and just like meeting everybody and like I like it kind of goes back to like my goals and running.
Speaker 2:Like I never thought I'd even consider a world's team but I also never thought I'd like have, like you know, like a team and trail running like or to be a part of a trail running team. So it's kind of this like I don't know, like surprise sort of at the end of my career but like I feel like I'm starting a new running career, um, but that crew is really cool and the team's been awesome. Like when I first joined on that, that first season I crashed mountain biking and broke my heel and then, like the day before I was flying to zagagama and so I ended up not racing at all and then they totally they resigned me and it was like it was like yeah no worries, man Like we have faith in you that kind of thing where I was nervous and trying to force races when my heel was still hurt and like I had to drop out.
Speaker 2:So it's been. It's been a pretty cool experience to be a part of that team. Nice man, nice.
Speaker 1:It's. I love what David Kilgore has built. It's pretty, pretty sweet. I can ask you this like with your approach you have like such a light, like no, I wouldn't say lighthearted approach, but like it's your, your approach is different than, say, a few others that I've spoken to. Do you, are you putting any pressure on yourself to make the team, or is it just like, if I do, I do and you know, and if not, not?
Speaker 2:Um, no, I wouldn't say there's any pressure to make the team. It's just like, um, I mean, I would be like maybe I'm not expressing it here that well, but like I would be like so stoked if I did make the team. But, um, I don't know, like it's probably not like lack of confidence, but like I just I've never, it's never been like making the team is like the goal, like massive successes, is like what I'm just pursuing. It's sort of like that's unknown to me where I'm.
Speaker 2:Like I just want to be like the best I can be June 1st at that race and like if that means I'm fifth or 10th or first like you know, it's kind of just like seeing where I stack up and like I'm definitely going to race for the win and give it my all and, like you know, prepare for it and try to be as strong as I can on that day. It's no disrespect. Those goals, I guess, are, I don't know, Like they're not as established for me, so it's it's uh, it's kind of just like if things go well, it's just like really exciting for me, but if they don't, then it's like a big learning curve for me as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a healthy place to approach it.
Speaker 1:Man, I've talked to so many people that like just have nerves, like like they're, like I have to do this Like I have to and it's like, oh, I don't know if you should go in with those expectations, because it's like, if you, if it doesn't happen, then, like you know, you're gonna be so defeated, whereas, like I don't know, it's interesting though, like the mindsets of like folks going into this race and like I've also talked to other people man that, like they're just like their eye is more on broken arrow and like less on soon api and it's like, oh, that's not a good place to be either, like you, can't you can't take your eye off the ball, so it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and I think it's going to be great preparation for broken arrow, like a just like short, hard race, like really, like you know, tap the lungs and legs, like like I think it's great prep and then, um, yeah, but like I mean, I think my my mindset going into it, like with my background in ski racing, like I had massive goals.
Speaker 2:I always, I always like kind of set my goals really high and 99 percent of the time I fell short of them and quickly realized that like the success comes from like the pursuit of those goals, rather than like just a true measurement of like did I achieve these goals or what percentage of goals did I achieve each season?
Speaker 2:And like the Olympics were always like my like main target and three cycles in a row I was like first or second alternate for the olympics, even though the next year I won champs, I would qualify easily under basically the same criteria. And so, like I had those ups and downs and it was brutal at first, but then at at some point I kind of came to this conclusion that like it's like my only satisfaction and like happiness is from like just making this like kind of one goal. It's not worth it because you pour 50 weeks a year training for like this one day and like there's a lot of variables and competitors are really good and strong, and so I'm just like I don't know like I'm. I went for a run this morning and it made me really happy, so the process is like the main thing for me.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Well, listen, david, I'm wishing you the absolute best of luck. I I'm so excited to see what's going to unfold on race day for you. And, yeah, man, I, uh, I'm pumped and I'll keep you posted on when this is going to come out. It'll come out next week at some point when we do, uh, do everything for race week. So, yeah, man, wish you the best of luck, stay healthy from here on out and we'll, uh, we'll probably be chatting after the race. Awesome, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, appreciate you, david. Thank you so much. Listen up, guys. Theep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA Guys, I am so excited UD just dropped their new Race Vest 6L and Ultra Vest 12L in two beautiful aesthetic colors.
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