The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Anna Gibson - Pre Sunapee Scramble Interview
The mountains beckon, and Anna Gibson answers with a fresh approach to trail running excellence. Coming off an impressive 11th place finish at the prestigious Zagama mountain marathon in Spain, Gibson shares what it's like to race through corridors of 100,000 screaming fans while tackling 9,000 feet of elevation gain.
What makes Gibson's success particularly fascinating is her training philosophy. Unlike many elite trail runners, she thrives on remarkably low mileage—typically just 40-45 weekly running miles—supplemented with strategic cycling sessions. "If I can go for two or three-hour bike rides in a week, that's six hours of training that I could not run," she explains, revealing how this cross-training approach allows her to build tremendous aerobic capacity without breaking down her body. Even when preparing for her marathon-distance race at Zagama, she topped out at just 60 miles in her highest week ever.
Working with renowned coach David Roche has helped Gibson develop this personalized approach. Their relationship embodies mutual trust, with Roche pushing her at precisely the right moments while giving her freedom to adapt the training as needed. Gibson candidly discusses her upcoming race at Sunapee, which serves as the US selection race for the Mountain Running World Championships. At 26, despite international success, she has yet to represent the United States at Worlds—something she hopes to change by qualifying for both the Vertical Kilometer and Mountain Classic teams.
As trail running continues to professionalize, Gibson offers a glimpse into this evolution through her experience with Brooks, describing their comprehensive team approach where athletes travel together and receive extensive support at international races. She also touches on her future plans, including maintaining her track career alongside her trail endeavors, showcasing the versatility that makes her one of the sport's most exciting talents.
Tune in to hear how this rising star balances multiple disciplines, navigates international racing, and approaches the challenges of competing at the highest level in mountain running.
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com!
What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lariello, and I'm so excited to be joined today for a pre-Sanipi Scramble interview with none other than trail superstar, miss Anna Gibson. Super fun to catch up with Anna. We talked to her just after she got back from Zagama just this past weekend where she took a top 15 place finish in an incredibly stacked field and one of her longest, if not her longest, trail race to date. Super exciting. We caught up to chat all about Zagama. We talked a lot as far as like postmortem and unpacking her race. We talked about Sunapee, kind of some strategy going involved there, and just kind of her expectations and plans for race day and what it would mean to her to make Team USA. So super exciting conversation. Really appreciate Ana for coming on, wishing her the absolute best of luck and looking forward to having a long-form interview with her down the line. So super exciting one. Hope you guys enjoy this one. None other than Ana Gibson. Ana Gibson, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm stoked to finally have a conversation. Obviously, you're one of the top female names in SubUltra right now, so it was fun to finally get this loaded up. I got to give a big shout out to Michelino for helping put this together, so stoked to have you on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. It's going to be fun to chat with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you just got back from the gamma. Um, this is the gamma or the gamma, it's the same thing with, like, sunupi or Sunupi I was pronounced wrong. I think the gamma is the gamma. How, uh, let's, let's maybe do like a post-mortem on the race. Like, obviously you had an amazing result. Um, how did the race go for you? How are you feeling post-race? Let's, let's talk through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Zagama. I will start by saying that it was one of the coolest experiences of my life. It was amazing and for people that don't know about it, it's just this crazy event that draws a ton of spectators. I was told that there's generally over 100,000 people between the town and the entire length of the course. It's a mountain marathon, like the town and the entire length of the course it's a mountain marathon, so it's like 42 K, um 9,000 feet of vert climbing and descending and it's just this one giant loop, and so there's just fans everywhere.
Speaker 2:It's like if you picture what the tour de France looks like at the top of the mountain stages, with just like people just screaming and in your face and, um, there's just like a tiny little gap for you to run through, Like that's basically like what the experience was, and so just a ton of stimulation. And even if you're having a terrible day, like I just don't know how you couldn't have a good time regardless. Um, and so I didn't have a terrible day, which was great. I actually felt quite good.
Speaker 2:Um, it was my first mountain marathon. I typically run like 30 K or under, so it was a bit of a reach for me and um just really fun to try something new. And, yeah, the whole experience was just absolutely spectacular. Um and I ran in the top 10 for most of the race and then ended up in 11th, which was a little bit of a bummer, Like I definitely came off of that. I was like okay, that that would have been nice to hang into the top 10, but I'm still really proud of the result and, um, yeah, I think there's there's kind of everywhere to go from here, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I listen. I'm just so impressed that you were able to kind of go over there especially I don't know, it's like a very tight window go there You're only there for a few days race and then turn around and come right back Like that's gotta be just a whirlwind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm staying with some friends. I'm already back in New Hampshire and I'm staying with some friends and one of their roommates was like wow, you're living a crazy life right now. So they kind of put it in perspective Like, yeah, I am living a crazy life right now. Like I literally went to Spain and I was there for five days and now I'm in New Hampshire and I'm here for like 10, partly for Sun and P to race, and then I'm staying for a couple of extra days just to kind of hang out with some friends. But yeah, it's wild Quick turnaround.
Speaker 1:What a life. I like it. That sounds. It's got to be fun. Let's talk about a little bit more Like. How was the course for you in the sense of like? I've seen course videos obviously in the past where it's like rainy and wet and people are slipping and sliding and it's muddy and then you see days where it's nice and warm and just kind of beautiful out. How was the course on the day? Like was it? Was it pretty solid for you guys, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, honestly it was crazy. Like I went into it expecting the absolute worst, Like I thought it might be 50 degrees, like barely warm enough to be warm the whole race pouring rain. Like I was expecting horrible conditions, super muddy, because that's what I've seen in pictures and it was beautiful. It was like 65 or 70, perfectly crisp blue sky, Like it was perfect and honestly actually a bit hot, Like thankfully they had they had sponge baths at the aid station. So I was perfect and honestly actually a bit hot, Like thankfully they had, um, they had sponge baths at the aid station so I was able to like cool myself down. But the fact that I even needed to cool myself down was a complete surprise, um for this event. So it was spectacular, just really perfect day for it.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Is it hard to get there? Like do you have to fly into Madrid and then like take another flight? Like how, how do you get to the best country? Like do you have to fly into Madrid and then like take another flight? Like how, how do you get to the?
Speaker 2:best country. Um, it wasn't too bad Actually. I flew to Bilbao and then it's only like 45 minutes to an hour from the city, Um, so it wasn't too too bad. I think I took I mean, I was traveling there from Wyoming, Um, so I took like three flights one to Salt Lake and then Salt Lake to Amsterdam, and then Amsterdam to Bilbao, Salt Lake to Amsterdam and then Amsterdam to Bilbao, Nice.
Speaker 1:Now you're back. You're technically back living in Wyoming now, right, Are you resettled there? I know I've seen on Instagram you've kind of put a couple different things up and I wasn't sure so are you? Is that home base for the summer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a question I'm getting. A lot People are like where do you live? Yeah, I mean I and just kind of experience something different, but I I really miss the mountains and I missed home and the community and stuff. So I'm back in Wyoming, um and Jackson, but I'm also kind of like living this very nomadic life right now. So I feel like I'm there about like half of my time and, yeah, being a little flexible with that.
Speaker 1:Nice. Before we had a conversation I kind of snuck your Strava a little bit and went through there and it was like oh man, running at the Teton Mountain Resort that looks so rad. It's just such a beautiful place. I don't know. So I'm in Colorado Springs. Obviously the mountains are beautiful in Colorado, but I've been to the Tetons a couple times now and there's just nothing like it in America, like it is like one of the most beautiful places in the country, if not like the outside of, like in the lower, the lower 48, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really special place and I I feel like I've come to learn that even more. Like, as I leave and I go explore new places, like I just feel really fortunate to be from a really cool place that so far, like I haven't found something that for me is like a better training environment or a better community, um, like a place I just like feel truly at home and like myself there. So, yeah, I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 1:Super cool, super cool. Let's talk training a little bit. I'm very interested in this Cause, like like I said in our pre-race, so we've done. Obviously we have a pre-race conversation through this. And then I also did like um with a group. We did a um kind of a pre-race breakdown of who we think will make the U S team, and one of the things I looked at like pretty in depth was your Strava and like you're not a super high volume runner and but also you do get some time on the bike. You do a good amount of biking as well. Maybe talk about that Like what your your approach is and just how like maybe like I sometimes at least for me, I can definitely say like running and biking works really well, like I don't have to get all my volume on, like just running. How does that work for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've always been pretty low mileage in terms of just specifically running training. Um, like literally in high school I think I was running like 20 to 25 miles a week and was doing fine and like was nationally competitive with that amount of training. And then in college, same thing. I was like training for the 1500, but was running workouts that were sort of more geared towards the 800, a lot of the time running super low mileage. Like there was one point where I would do three workouts a week and a long run and that was all of my running training. I didn't do easy runs, like my easy days were specifically biking and that was it Um, or or a little bit of skiing, I guess towards the end Um, so I was also super low mileage then, like maxing out at maybe 35 miles. And I think that's changed a little bit as I've become a professional.
Speaker 2:Now, like two years into my pro career, like definitely running a little bit more Um, but like I do great off of 40, 45 miles a week Um, which we stepped that up a little bit the last like couple of months as I was preparing for Zagama, just knowing that that was going to be a long day. Like it's 42 K, so it doesn't sound crazy, but it takes almost five hours Like it's it's longer than most 50 Ks in the U? S. So, um, we, we definitely like stepped at the volume there and I ran like my first 60 mile week ever, which was big. So it's been kind of this progression of like becoming a little bit more acquainted with more running mileage.
Speaker 2:But still like, yeah, I do, I do a couple of solid bike rides per week, um, and I love riding. Like I think also it's it's good for my body to like have a little bit less impact and like more time in zone two. That would beat me up if I was running, but it's super easy to to take on on the bike, um, but I think it's also just good for my head, like it's something I really enjoy and I have a lot of friends who do it. So it just it doesn't always feel like training it. It just feels like what I want to be doing with my time. I guess, um, and kind of keeping things different so that when I start to run the day later, I'm like excited to be running and I'm like, okay, my body feels good, I'm happy to be here, I want to be doing this and I think it just is a good good. Um brings a good level of like sustainability to my training yeah, I think that's such a good way to approach it.
Speaker 1:So I'm working through an injury right now and I've become obsessed with the gravel bike and it's just like kind of this new identity I've taken on and I just love it. It's like one of those things where I'm like you could still explore so much like even more of like outside that you wouldn't be able to do with running, um, and it's like I said, you can get workouts on it, you can build an enormous aerobic base, so I don't know, I think there's something to be said that, like the bike is a magical unlock for for a lot of athletes, which is kind of a cool thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's super cool. It's like, okay, if I can go for two three hour bike rides in a week, it's like that's six hours of training and I could not run an additional six hours of training Like I would break and would not feel well. Uh, so I think it's just this like little unlock, yeah, like extra zone two training or like also, um, during the winter I was doing a lot of like back-to-back workout days, so I would work out running on one day and then the following day I would do a bike workout and I'm like I could never do that running. I would. I would regret that would not be a sustainable model, but I can do that biking and I feel super strong doing both. So I think it's yeah, it's been a really good training tool for me Super cool. I think it's been a really good training tool for me.
Speaker 1:Super cool. I think there's something to it. For sure. Now, you had said we, so you work with a coach. Who do you work with specifically?
Speaker 2:I work with David Roche.
Speaker 1:Ah, the man, the myth, the legend Love David. Yes, interesting character. He's been on his own journey this year, which has been kind of cool to follow a lot. How does that relationship work? Like is David? Like is he? How do I say this? Does he push you to take more risks in training? Is he a little bit more safer as a coach? Cause I've seen like he does different things with different people. I know a lot of people that work with him Like how does your relationship work as far as that goes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think I mean we have a great relationship. Like it's super, super easy. Like I'm never stressed about how David's going to respond to something. Like I feel like I hear a lot of other athletes. They're like oh no, I did. I did something a little crazy. Like coach is going to be mad at me and I'm like mad at you. Like why is your coach mad at you?
Speaker 2:That's an interesting dynamic and I'm always like, okay, I did something crazy. Like wow, I'm excited, like I'm curious to see how he responds to this and every single time he responds with like so much excitement and enthusiasm. And yeah, so like deviating from training is like totally fine, which I feel like makes me feel really responsible over my decisions. Like what he gives me is a guide and it's what he thinks will like get me to the best place. But if there's some day that I need to do something else for whatever reason, like that's great. So, yeah, I think my relationship with him is awesome and I wouldn't change it. I can't imagine now, like having worked with David, I'm like I don't know how I could be doing what I'm doing with anybody else. Like he's the perfect fit for me right now.
Speaker 1:Him and Megan are amazing with anybody else Like he's, he's a perfect fit for me right now. Him and Megan are amazing Like they just have the secret sauce to, I don't know. I feel like it's yes, the training theory that they work through. Like they're obviously always innovating, they're always, you know, kind of implementing the latest science like into into their training. But at the same time, too, like I just love how David he just seems to uplift all his athletes, Like he really encourages people to swing for the fences and I think that's why his athletes tend to do so well.
Speaker 2:It's cool a lot of other athletes, like a lot of my friends, are coached by him as well, and we're all doing completely different things, which, to me, just is like it just solidifies the idea that it's like yeah, this is. This is very specific to each person and he like spends a lot of time and energy like getting to know people and understanding how they take and like what's going to work for them. Um, like he always pushes me right when I need to be pushed, but never so much that I'm like okay, this is crazy, like we're going way too hard, or like it always makes sense. Like it's just like, yeah, this is what I need right now. Like he knows that I know that we're on the same page.
Speaker 1:This is good. What's crazy, too, is like he coaches so many people but just like knows you all so well. That's the interesting thing. It's like no-transcript, it's like that's not going to work for everybody. So that's. I love the way he his approach, so yeah.
Speaker 2:And even like I feel like it's also different literally never spoken on the phone with him and I'm like Whoa, like a huge part of my relationship with him is like talking on the phone before events, especially in like having that kind of time to like just communicate with words instead of like through a screen. But a lot of people just communicate on their training log or they just text him or they email, and I'm like I don't even know his email, like I don't think we've ever emailed before. So it feels very specific to each person and he finds his own flow with every athlete.
Speaker 1:Super cool. Yeah, I got to get him on the podcast. He's just in personality-wise, he's a wild man. So yeah, he's a good guy. All right, let's dive into Sunipi a little bit and just talk more specifics on mountain running, champs and things like that. Your schedule is a little bit interesting, right? So you just came back from Zagama. You'll go to go to Sunapee this week. Um, are you? You're going to be a broken arrow as well. Correct For the ascent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, june is a crazy month for me. I'm going to do the ascent and the 23 K a broken arrow and then I'm actually racing my bike the following week at steamboat gravel on the 29th. So there's a lot of stuff um getting all crammed into June.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So assuming worlds is going to be a thing for you. Obviously, that'll take up September. I would imagine you're probably going to do some other golden shell series races as well. Right, what else? Are you going to go back over to Europe?
Speaker 2:Um, I am, yeah, I'm planning to race at series and all also, so I'll have the three um.
Speaker 2:The three will be Zagama, broken arrow and sarah's and all um, which, honestly, like strategic wise, that was probably not the best way for me to maximize getting points in the series and doing my best in the overall, like um, just because I chose events that are really hard to do well at.
Speaker 2:So, um, but I, I mean I I kind of I'm just in this phase now where I'm like I just want to go to things that like really excite me and I didn't want to go to races just because they were part of golden trail and just because I wanted to get points. Like, I think it's just about more than that, like it's about going to things that are exciting and, um, going to races that like really fuel the fire. And to me I was like, yeah, it's a gamma. I mean I could get 25th, I could DNF like this. This could not go well at all and that would just be a bummer for my overall golden trail series experience, but would be great experience just for me as an athlete and for where I'm at in my career. So, yeah, that's the decision that I've made and I'm just falling with it.
Speaker 1:Yo, I love it. Like what. What does series and all mean to you? Cause that's like my bucket list race I'm obsessed with and all such I am.
Speaker 2:I am also obsessed with series and all um. Having only done it once and having a phenomenal day there last year, I just freaking love that race. It was so cool and just such a crazy course and concept. Like you literally just do a double vk and then have to keep running for like two more hours flat or like I I guess not like rolling it's just a crazy course.
Speaker 1:What is, uh, what do you like? Do you like the climb more initially and then kind of getting into the rollers? Or by the time you get to the top of the climb, you're like when is this going to be over? Like what? What is your mental, like kind of concept through that, Especially last year?
Speaker 2:I mean last year I loved it, Cause I was like, okay, I'm really good at climbing, that's my strongest point. And so if I can get to the top of this climb and still feel okay, like I know I can run flat or rolly terrain for like a while, and that's exactly what happened. I got to the top of the climb and I still felt super strong and people kind of started to like fade, and so it's like if you're feeling good on that upper section, you can just kind of keep rolling people up and it's so exciting. You're like I got another one, I got another one, um, and you just get really hyped and just amazing views that just get like exponentially better as the race goes on.
Speaker 1:So it was really cool. I feel like that's the super bowl of sub ultra, or at least it should be, like it's just such a perfect. Obviously there's the golden trail series final and like that really matters as well, but like I don't know, there's just something so special and like historical about series and all when it comes to our sport that yeah, it's, it's hard to beat, it's um, yeah, it's a special race for sure nonetheless.
Speaker 2:So I'm excited you're going back yeah, I mean it's. It's like I think right after series and all last year, um, I finished sixth, which was like that felt like a huge performance, like maybe the best result of my career, and like that was another race that I and like in the days after I was thinking to myself like that was one of the craziest and coolest experiences of my life and like of my running career for sure. And kind of similar to Zagama, where it's like I just love coming off of events, where I'm like mind blown, that was insane, that was a crazy time. Um, so those are probably my two highlights. I would say just really cool races.
Speaker 1:Super cool, super cool. All right, let's talk Centipede and get more specific into the race. Obviously, it's coming up this Sunday. It's going to be a fun one two-loop course. I got to ask you this and I've asked every woman and man that I've interviewed for this how do you approach a two-loop race? Usually, I think of something almost like the broken arrow, 46 K or something along the lines of that, where usually the person that's leading the first loop might not be the person necessarily winning the race at the end.
Speaker 2:How do you approach that mentally when it comes to strategy wise for a race like this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to have a really strong field.
Speaker 2:Like there's a lot of fast women and I was kind of looking at the start list yesterday like starting to think about the race because I haven't really gotten to it yet but super, super strong field and I think there's way more women that are capable of making the US team than will make the US team. Obviously, Like it could be anybody's day, there's like I don't know, maybe eight people who I think are like contenders for the spots, and so I feel like it'll be really fun. Like I'm hoping that the first loop is like we all run together and we're just like kind of having a good time like running in a pack, because that's just a cool experience to be with a bunch of other American women and, um, also kind of rare like I don't really know where else that happens besides at a U? S championship. So, yeah, I think that'll kind of be like my hope is that we're all like together for a little while and then the second loop is like when things really like turn on and become, become a big race, race vibe, Okay.
Speaker 1:The second loop is interesting too because it's a little bit different than the first. There's like a nice like technical ascent, like uh, coming off the road, which looks kind of fun. It's like granite and then it's a kind of a saddle, so I feel like that suits your climbing skillset really well. So that's going to be fun to see if you can get some separation there, depending on where the field's at. So that'll be cool. Yeah, it's uh. Yeah, it's uh. It's going to be really interesting because obviously the weather always plays a factor too, like it could be muddy and disgusting, or it could be like sunny and 70 this time of year. So who really knows where that's going to line up? Let me ask you this what, um, what shoe will you probably wear for that course?
Speaker 2:Um, I think I'm going to wear the Katamata Gio um, which is Brooks's like most minimalist shoe. Um, I haven't raced in them in a while, actually, um, cause we have a new like super shoe prototype that I've been racing in and loving for the longer distance. But I did wear them at Sagama and it was definitely the downside was in the technical terrain. They're just a little bit higher stack and I think, like running something super fast, I don't need to worry too too much about like protecting my body from the impact, like I was with like the 42 K. So, yeah, the Agile is like a pretty minimalist shoe but with like great tread and um, they're, they're the same shoe I would choose to like run most VKs in. So they're super light and fast, super cool.
Speaker 1:So this is an interesting one for you because, like, you have an opportunity to make the mountain classic and then obviously you're one of the best climbers in the country, if not the world. What would it mean to you more? Like, would you rather obviously this is like such a first world problem but like, would you rather be on the VK team, like the Ascent team, or would you rather be on the Mountain Classic team? Like, what are your thoughts, or would you rather be on both, if you can be?
Speaker 2:I mean, I want to be on both. If I can be, that's definitely the goal, that's why I'm here, um, but I I mean, yeah, going into this whole planning all this, I was like, okay, this is a lot for June, like late May, early June, for me to like cram in all these races and like the turnaround after race against Sagama, like I know, I know this is fast, I know this is a little bit crazy and like substantial, nothing substantial is going to happen between last Sunday and this coming Sunday, like I literally haven't done anything and it's already Wednesday. So, um, yeah, definitely, kind of like I'm, I'm really excited about the VK opportunity. I think, like I have, like you said, I have a better shot at making that team for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, but I, when I was planning all of this, I was like, okay, well, how disappointed would I be if I somehow got sick for broken arrow weekend or something happened there? And I just felt stupid for not going to Sunapee and trying, like I have to do both. I have to try for both teams. And so here we are. Um, yeah, I'm excited about both, though that would be the goal to, to do both races at worlds.
Speaker 1:I like it. That's the. So I like the expectation. That's kind of where the question I was going with was like. Is your expectation to make it like? Obviously, looking at the field and where you're at, performance wise, your expectation would be to make both teams, or make at least this team, correct.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think like there's there's more pressure for me, like I'm I'm putting more of an emphasis on the VK team. I would say like, if I don't make that, I will be crushed, like that will be, that will be a bummer, I will have had a bad day, um. But like, if I make this one, it's like an extra little cherry on top, that it's like then I can go to worlds and I can compete in both races and that'd be super fun. Um, I think if I don't make this it will make sense. It'll be like okay, like yeah, that was, that was a lot to try and pack it in, and so it's kind of like I don't know I'm trying not to be super intense about it or stressed Like I'd love to make both, but if I don't make the VK team, I'll be like more crushed, I guess. Fair enough.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. Let's say you have the day. Let's say you have both the days you want or one of the days. Regardless, what would it mean to you to make Team USA?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean it feels like kind of a long time coming. I guess, like I made I made the U S team and I raced in the U S kit for challenge Stelina um, which is a super cool event and it's great, but it's definitely has a different feel than making world championships and like it's kind of crazy to me and just the way that things have worked out and like I did a fifth year and a sixth year in college. So I'm now 26 and I haven't been on a world's team before and I'm like, okay, it's time, like I'm ready for this. I've been like competing internationally in trail and been like fairly competitive for a few years now and it's like I'm like I want to go to worlds, I want to experience this Um. So yeah, that it will. It will feel really good, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'd love to hear it. Yeah, the team, whoever we send, like our teams are going to be like compete for medals this year. It's crazy, Like just looking at these start lists between Broken Arrow and between Sunapee and even like the the longer trail stuff that we're sending, like yo, people are so good. Now the sport has really, like the level has gotten so much higher even in the last like two or three years. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is crazy. I mean I was actually. I was at dinner with a bunch of people over at Sagama, people from all sorts of different countries like France and Italy and Switzerland, and they were asking me who had made the teams and I told them we haven't had everything figured out yet, haven't had all the national championships and stuff, but that the short trail or sorry, the long trail team had been announced and I was like showing them who had made it and they were all like kind of wide eyed, like oh gosh, that's kind of intimidating, like that's a really good team. I'm like, yeah, that's a good team, like we're going to be crushing it. I think it's going to be competitive.
Speaker 1:Oh for sure. No, we'll be like, our teams will be a hundred percent competing for medals, I think, across the board this year, which is going to be kind of crazy. Um yeah, it's just so wild. I can ask you a training question. I do want to get back to that because you are such a good climber, do you? And I'm just like asking, like about as far as like how you structure your volume and stuff like that, do you do a ton of climbing and training or do you just do a lot of like more flat and like workout stuff?
Speaker 2:Um, I mean it goes in phases. I would say like there are times in my season and in my training that I'll do a ton of climbing and I would say now is not one of them, which is why I was like actually kind of surprised to feel super strong climbing this past weekend. Um, I in Jackson, the last month or so that I've been out there like we, we still have a ton of snow, like there's not a lot of big vert accessible from town. So it's like I've been running on a lot of kind of more moderate trails, like the vert definitely adds up, but it's like you can't climb for more than I don't know 30 minutes at a time. Um, which is sort of tough.
Speaker 2:And then before that I spent a month out in Oregon and Bend and it's like the same thing all their big peaks are still super snowy, so I was running on very flat terrain.
Speaker 2:So I've done very minimal climbing, like since when I was in California, like early in the winter and in the fall last year. So yeah, right now definitely a little bit less vert in the legs, but normally, like in the middle of the summer, I do do a fair amount of climbing. Um, like we all like run up the ski resort behind my house and then take the gondola down, and so I'll do like a bit less of downhill training and more uphill training, or I'll do like a little bit on the uphill treadmill occasionally, um for doubles and things, but I wouldn't say there's any super, super strong focus on it. It's not like it's not something that I like specifically try to incorporate. It kind of just like happens and I'll occasionally have like yeah, I mean it happens on long runs, just by default of me wanting to run up mountains and go stand on top of peaks and stuff. And then it happens like occasionally when David will give me like a very specific uphill workout. Um, that's structured.
Speaker 1:Interesting. That's so cool, I don't know. It's funny Like I've seen different people respond so differently for like climbing training. I've seen people that climb all of the time and it's almost like their mechanics get a little bit slower. And then I see, like I've seen it in myself, like where I do more track based workouts and just more like high intensity more I guess you could say more zone three, zone like high intensity, more I guess you could say more zone three, zone four stuff, more threshold work, and my climbing just gets so much better. I was like, oh man, this is, this is. It's like finding that balance.
Speaker 2:It's very interesting yeah, it's super interesting. I mean the last two years like just add more context last two years I trained for track all spring and then um race at the us championships and then immediately turned around and did broken arrow VK and like that's one of the strongest I've ever been climbing. Like I was first in 2023 and second in 2024 in the VK and had literally not run uphill. Like I had done very, very little trail running at that point. Like I was training specifically for the 1500 and doing a bunch of workouts that were like just going super lactic and then recovering and still having to run on really tired legs and just run through bricks and like that type of training to me is like so, so good for uphill running. It's wild. Like you actually could never touch vert, train like a 1500 runner and then like be a solid climber.
Speaker 1:It's really cool. It's so nuts right.
Speaker 2:So crazy.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this when it comes to the track, like are you, are you done? Are you going to continue to do track stuff? I didn't think so, Okay.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not done. I mean, I I don't feel like it's not really a secret at this point that I'm like loving my life as a trail runner. Like I just love the places, the places that it takes me to. I love the community aspect, um, I just love the energy around it. It's so fun and like spending time in the mountains is like my all time favorite thing. So I don't think that's a secret.
Speaker 2:But I also love track and like the, the precision and like the intensity and all of that Like I do really enjoy and I like the training, um, and how you can see yourself getting better, like it's so tangible where improvements lie, um, so yeah, I'm not done. I just I wanted a year of trying to do just trail and seeing what would happen and wanting to race like races earlier in the year, and things were just too overlapping, like the track season and the trail season this year with like the big events that I would have wanted to race at were like completely on top of each other and it just wasn't going to make sense. So, this year's trail, next year I don't know what will happen, but I'm definitely not running, not done running track.
Speaker 1:No, it's a hard question to ask, right, cause it's like I don't think people realize the amount of like it's a completely I don't want to say completely different sport, but it's so different and the amount that goes into preparation and things like that, like it's not like you could just hop on the track and just expect a good result, like obviously there's a ton that goes into it, so like to be able to do both has got to be. That's a lot to carry, I would imagine Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's okay, I think, when I'm switching from one to the other and it's like I just have my year broken up in a way that makes sense, but I think it's too much for me personally to try and like do them at the same time. Um, like, I just don't think that that's like very reasonable and my body, like I feel totally different right now than I do when I'm in like good track shape, like it's just very different, I guess.
Speaker 1:Interesting. How does that work? And you can go in as far into this as you want. Um, I'm just so curious, like as far as Brooks and support, like do they are you? Do they treat you as a trail athlete and a track athlete? Like, how does that work? Like, is it because you're kind of like your own, kind of?
Speaker 2:thing. Yeah, I mean, it's awesome. Honestly, this is like my, my dream that came true is to work with a brand that like doesn't really try to put me in a bucket. Like I definitely. I think at this point I'm kind of like more a part of the trail team, like I go to all of the trail team camps and I go to all the trail team events and like I'm a part of that like a hundred percent. But if I wanted to be a hundred percent a part of the track side and like do that life, I definitely feel like I could and they would fully support it.
Speaker 2:And there've been times where I'm like kind of in between, like um, I think I'm trying to think what year that was like 2023. Maybe I was like I went to a team, I went to camp with um, the Brooks Bees out in Seattle, their track team, and like train with them for a little bit and then back to back, like then the whole trail team came out to Seattle, to the headquarters, and I like did both back to back and that was just like wow, this is like the epitome of my dream. Like I want to be able to do both of these sports at the highest level and have support for both and like teammates and that kind of environment for both and it just like played out in front of me and I had that. It was so cool, um, and I definitely still have that. But, like right now I'm I'm obviously more on the trail side of things, so I'm kind of like a little out of touch with the track world. But it makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Brooks is so cool, I got to hand it to them. Like it's been. Like their investment into the especially into the sub ultra side of the sport has been so crazy the last few years. Like I don't know if you would agree with me on this, but I think, from like a ranking perspective, like whether it be it or our UTM, utm beating Texas like both American, when you're comparing the European and the Americans, I think Brooks is like the best, like some ultra trail team in the world right now, which is so crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's really cool. Like it's super cool to see the performances just like skyrocketing. And I mean kind of being on the inside too. Like I feel like I see the product skyrocketing as well. Like even from when I signed with Brooks two years ago, like there's so much innovation happening and so much exciting stuff coming down the pipeline that like the public hasn't seen yet. But I'm like, wow, in like a year or two, this is going to be out and everyone is going to see this and it's just super, super cool.
Speaker 2:And I also feel like just our team environment is sweet, like going to Spain and like staying with all the international Brooks athletes and like having that kind of team environment. Like I was talking with other sponsored athletes and they're like wow, this is so sick. Like I'm kind of jealous. You have this whole team atmosphere that like I can go somewhere and I traveled alone, I'm literally the only American at this race and I have a whole community and a whole group of people that kind of like feels like a family and it's just it's so helpful to have that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's a really cool thing and I think that's a. I would hope that's the way brands start to go in the future, like I have a lot of friends. That I mean I guess I could say it's like I have a lot of friends like on the Hoka team, right, and like maybe this year they will, but in previous years they haven't, whereas like Terex Brooks, a lot of brands are starting to do this thing. Everybody, when they come to Chamonix or other places for certain races will all stay together. They'll all have cooks, chefs, masseuses, massagers or masseuses. But the whole thing it's kind of amazing. It's the red carpet treatment for athletes which it's got its own value right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's super cool. Yeah, I was actually laughing. Like a month or two ago I saw this article that was written about Solomon and it was like Solomon is taking an approach similar to the, to the world tour, like cycling teams, how like they suddenly have all these team resources and all this stuff, and I was kind of looking at it. I was like laughing. I was like ha ha, like it's not just Solomon, like half of the trail world, half the trail teams are like this now, where they're teams and they like have a lot of support and they travel together and stuff. And um, I'm like, yeah, brooks is doing that, I know terex is doing that too, and like this is sort of the direction that it's going in and I think it is so cool, like this is what trail running needs to be.
Speaker 1:It's so fun yeah, it's fun to watch the professionalization. It's crazy as it as it starts to progress and, like you know, especially as worlds gets more legitimized and things like that, it's going to be fun to watch the sport like just kind of skyrocket.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're at about 35 minutes, so I'm going to let you go. I'd want to take all your time. Thank you so much. I want to, if you're down for it. I do want to do this again and we'll do it after uh, we'll do it after series and all, so we can do like a long form interview, which would be kind of fun, if you're game for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds great. I'm happy to.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, I'm not wishing you the best of luck on race day on Sunday. You'll get to hear my voice again, cause I will be uh, I'll be on the live stream, so it should be a ton of fun. Um, yeah, I'm going to get this out. Let's will come out today. Awesome. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much. Listen up, guys.
Speaker 1:The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA Guys. I am so excited. Ud just dropped their new Race Vest 6L and Ultra Vest 12L in two beautiful aesthetic colors. You guys got to check these new vests out. They're dynamic in ways that you just have never seen from an Ultimate Direction vest Very stretchy, lots of storage, beautiful aesthetic colorways, coming to you in a new white and blue and an onyx and green Just absolutely beautiful vests. I think these ones are just some of the best products we've ever dropped and I'm so excited for you guys to try them out. Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod. Again. That's steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced, but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom. Get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think. Thank you.
