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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Cam Smith- Pre Sunapee Scramble Interview
Ever wondered how elite mountain athletes transition between winter and summer sports at the highest level? Cam Smith, one of mountain running's most versatile competitors, takes us behind the curtain on his journey from a winter of Olympic-qualifying ski mountaineering races to the upcoming Sunapee Mountain Running Championship.
The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted revelation about Smith's off-season consumption of exactly 200 croissants—a feat that earned him a free jacket! But beneath this playful start lies a fascinating exploration of athletic transformation. Smith describes how he completely overhauled his training approach for the winter ski season, reducing volume to 60% while significantly increasing intensity to excel in seven-minute relay efforts critical for Olympic qualification.
With the USA team sitting just one point behind Canada in World Cup rankings, Smith reveals everything comes down to a single December competition that will determine which North American nation secures an Olympic berth. The pressure couldn't be higher, yet Smith approaches this challenge with remarkable perspective: "I want it badly... but I know that I'll just move on to what's next, regardless."
What makes this conversation particularly compelling is Smith's candid assessment of his current fitness as he transitions back to trail running. Coming directly from competing in Europe at lower elevations to training in Crested Butte at nearly 9,000 feet creates unique physiological challenges. Despite uncertainty about how he'll perform at Sunapee, Smith embraces the high-stakes environment: "I love high pressure races... that do-or-die mentality, and I trust that I'll be ready when the moment comes."
Perhaps most moving is Smith's reflection on what representing the United States internationally means to him. Having previously made the mountain running team, he describes wearing the USA jersey as "a childhood dream come true" that offered a second chance at fulfilling a lifelong ambition that once seemed impossible.
Ready to dive deeper into the mind of an elite mountain athlete balancing Olympic dreams with present-moment focus? Listen now to this conversation that bridges disciplines, explores mental resilience, and reveals what it truly means to compete at the highest level in mountain sports.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys one more elite men interview. Better late than never, I've got the. I saved the best for last. Your favorite runners, favorite runner, one of my favorite people in the sport, probably my favorite runner, pound for pound. One of just the best humans in the sport. I think this is a good introduction.
Speaker 1:None other than Mr Cam Smith, super excited to catch up with Cam following his long winter of racing Schemo trying to help the USA get that birth, or spot, if you will, into the 2026 Olympics in Italy. It was fun to catch up with Cam, talk all things Sunapee as well as all things Schemo. Cam's in a really good place. Dude's fit, dude's ready to rock and roll, dude's ready to race. So it's going to be really fun to see what unfolds, wishing Cam the absolute best of luck as he takes on this challenge this upcoming weekend at Sunapee. Yeah, I hope you guys enjoy this one. Always a fun conversation catching up with Cam Smith Without further ado. Yeah, I hope you guys enjoy this one. Always a fun conversation catching up with Cam Smith Without further ado. Cam Smith, cam Smith. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:my friend. What's up, james? You know I'm a huge, huge Steep Stuff fan.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, great to be here and great to chat with you, and I'm looking forward to whatever we get into, oh man, good to catch up, man, all right, I got to start the first question. I've had this one loaded for a while. How many croissants did you consume this off season?
Speaker 2:oh, that's an easy one. So 200, yeah, so I was getting close. And then in the last day it's like oh, can I do six to get to the double century? And made it happen. So, uh, um, forest bow bonkner from the rut um, yeah, it helps put on the rut won a free jacket. So so yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, all right.
Speaker 2:Contest is over.
Speaker 1:Was this like a, an assortment of croissants Like did you get more chocolate, more plain?
Speaker 2:hazelnut yeah, any, anything counts. Anything Usually yeah, usually a plain or stuff with some kind of chocolate or jam. Yeah, you can't, can't be too picky, you got to have them all.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, fair enough. Yeah, it's, I don't know. I have a German bakery on the corner of where I live. Now it's deadly, and then we've got a French bakery across the street. So it's I've got to be careful man, I've got to, especially now. I'd be like, oh, can't eat too many.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it counts panachocolates too, because it's not the way that they're shaped that makes them a croissant, it's the way they're rolled, and panachocolates count too. So there's probably 30 or 40 of those in the count. So, yeah, hoping that those are mostly out of my system before a centipede this weekend.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, fair enough. Well, listen, man, I don't want to bury the lead too much. I'm super excited to have you back on for a conversation. Obviously, this weekend is going to be some of the son of peace scramble the mountain running championship in the mountain classic discipline, something you are like, super disciplined in, like you've. You've raced this distance a lot. Um, how, what's the stoke level for this race? Are you excited to go out East and go play with uh, some big competition?
Speaker 2:I'm super excited. Yeah, this is what I live for. You know, I love just putting myself in the pressure cooker and like, yeah, having something on the line and having this situation where you need to perform to make something happen, and I think that brings out the best in people and it's just really exciting to be doing it. It's funny Like I was racing all winter, obviously, and then I've had about a six week break, so it hasn't been a super long off season, but plenty of time to be stoked, to uh, to really go for it again.
Speaker 1:Nice. Well, this is something I actually wanted to catch up with you about. I mean, I was kind of debating. I was like, man, do I save this for another long form interview? We do, um, maybe after broken arrow, or do we just dive into it. But I got to ask you, man, how was? How was the racing season this year for schema? I know like you went to a bunch of different countries, you did a bunch of different things. It was really fun to follow along. If you could sum it up, maybe in just like a five, just a five or 10 minutes synopsis, like maybe talk about some of the world cup races that you did, Um, you know some of the highlights. Just just kind of give me the rundown on that.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure. So this winter is the pre-Olympic winter and so the focus for this season was earning a Olympic quota spot for the? U? S. And so the way we did that, or the way we aimed to do that, was where the team sits in the World Cup rankings, specifically in the mixed relay. So the one man, one female format, and basically, if we were in the top 10, 11, depending on how things shook out, or the top team in North America, so basically ahead of Canada, either of those would get us in the top team in North America. So basically ahead of Canada, either of those would get us in.
Speaker 2:And a long story short, we're right on the bubble and it comes down to one more race in December. Okay, uh, so is this whole past season plus the very beginning of this coming season. So December 5th and 6th we'll decide the rest of it. And basically, uh, canada has 230 points, basically, uh, canada has 230 points, the U? S has 229, and the breakdown of each place is, um, like it doesn't get down to a single point until way down in the standings. So basically what that means is whoever finishes ahead of who on December 5th goes to the Olympics, the other one won't. So that's kind of where we are, but but backing up to get there where we are, but but backing up to get there, um yeah, I sort of changed everything to get ready for this relay format. So, like my passion in racing is more of the, the individual and team and vertical races, so like 20 something minutes to three, four hours, where you're, yeah, climbing and skiing and out in the mountains and, um, yeah, just the more kind of pure form of the sport and then the, the relay is basically like seven minute efforts repeated. So you do a qualification one and then a few hours later you and a teammate will race alternate laps. So you do a seven minute lap, they do a seven minute lap, you do a seven minute lap, they do a seven minute lap. So it was super different.
Speaker 2:Like I turned into a seven minute athlete for this winter and, um, honestly it it was fun and it felt good. Like my training volume was probably 60 percent of what it is normally and intensity was way up. Easy days were super easy and for the first time I've like looked at two minute climbs during a race, cause that really has multiple climbs and multiple descents. I've like looked at a two minute climb and been like stoked for being able to put power down in that window and, like my, my body's never been able to do that, you know. Uh, so it was fun and it was exciting and the racing was really competitive and back and forth and um, you just kind of, when you're really fit with the short stuff and with gym training and everything, you just kind of feel light walking around and bounding up the stairs and um, yeah, it just it feels healthy, it feels good to some extent.
Speaker 2:Um, so kind of how the season went was we had a first world cup in December that didn't have a relay, so that was just kind of people getting the legs shook out. And then January to April, there were six different World Cup relays and for a couple of those so the very first one, the very last one, I had the fastest time in qualifications individually and so that's sort of like, personally, was the highlight of the season. Like, of course, the team stuff mattered way more to me, but as far as what I was doing, um, as my own athlete, uh, being able to do that proved to me that I I can race with the best, which is really exciting because schema is super competitive, like we have the best racers in the same place every weekend all winter. And then it's it's not really my strength in an event, so to be able to prove that I can be right there with the top guys. Uh, after all that, those changes in training and everything was super exciting.
Speaker 2:And then the team um, we started off pretty well, um, and we're like sitting pretty well in the rankings, and then sort of struggled through the middle and sort of put it together again at the end and, yeah, got ourselves right, right on the bubble.
Speaker 2:But it's complicated, like it's it's not just how I'm doing, it's how the other men on my team are doing, how the other women on my team are doing, how the other countries are doing, like it's there's a lot of moving parts and I was just really glad to, to to have been part of it and um, yeah, to go from literally like sprinting up two minute Hills with skis on um to then getting ready for running season feels pretty good Once I you know, get, get rid of those skis and the climbs are longer than two minutes. Um, I think it'll be a good kind of launch path for this race season. So, um, so, if I'm right, you'll see me have a great race on Sunday, and if I'm wrong, then give me some more chances. Maybe it'll just take me a few more weeks, fair enough, fair enough how I got to ask you this?
Speaker 1:just because I'm just so interested from a training theory perspective. Like, obviously you said volume was about 60% this year, so volume is a little bit less but intensity is higher. So volume's a little bit less but intensity is higher. Do you feel like that's when you rev the engine, especially transitioning back to running, like are you finding like a new gear now? Like do you, do you feel fitter going into this stuff now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. Um, I think there's definitely some benefit there, but I didn't necessarily feel it because I went from a season of super short racing all in Europe like mid and low altitude, finishing with a couple of weeks in Norway like at the ocean, just straight back to Crested Butte at almost 9000 feet and like training, did 12 and 13 plus thousand feet and going from seven minutes to four hour sessions and I felt pretty bad making that transition. And now that I've sort of caught up again, I'm feeling like myself but uh, there's, there's definitely some carry over there Like it's only been six weeks since the race season. So I'm in this really weird spot trying to thread the needle of I need to be ready for that first week of December and then the following ski season, and so really what I? I think that doing competitive and hard and fast races in the summer is a really good way to do that. Ideally they'd all be in July and August, but all the races I'm most excited about are in June and September. So here I am just kind of trying to find a way to make it work.
Speaker 2:So I spent about a month, just yeah, well, I took a little break, was then spent about a month trying to cram in some base training, um, get some strength in the gym back and, uh yeah, build up the running mileage and then basically from here at sunup go pro games, broken arrow kind of um, sharpen back up a little bit, but I'm really not going to do that much intensity like. I'm just still kind of carrying over from the winter and then getting just like generalist fit, build a base again in july and august and then go back to racing in September, which hopefully is is it worlds, and then, if not, then um yeah, I'm pivoted to uh to December. So, yeah, it's interesting. I think there's definitely some benefit there. I just didn't necessarily feel it with the way I set myself up and, um, I'm kind of trying to have a little bit of everything and um, shooting big and uh yeah hopefully it works out.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love to hear it, man. It's interesting too. I was laughing because, like, I had ryan becker on a few episodes ago and he lives at like eight or nine thousand feet until you're right, and he's like nothing looks good at nine thousand feet.
Speaker 1:He's like right, it's so hard to tell, like where I'm at, like even from a great adjusted pace perspective. He's like because you know you're so high up. It's a little bit different, but you'll get to find out this weekend at Sunapee it's going to be really interesting, especially like this is such a weird I don't want to say weird, but it's just a different type of course Because, yes, it's fast, yes, there's some technical sections, there's two loops involved. Neither of the two loops are the same. There's some road.
Speaker 1:When it comes to like the dirt ski roads, it's just going to be interesting to see, like what plays the different folks strengths and and you know and not. It's interesting for me because, as a fan of yours and as someone that really respects you in the sport and just understands, like your capabilities I think a lot of your peers too well, like even dan kurtz had said it, like we were talking about you and you're just so widely regarded as such a good climber, um, obviously there's a lot of opportunities there for climbs and to kind of, you know, do really well there. Have you thought about some of the technical descents? Have you worked on some of that stuff in the off season since you've kind of come back and started playing on the trails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like a thanks for saying that, and, um, I think my climbing is going to be as good or better than it is all season, like a lot of times I run better uphill in the spring than I do in the fall, after not running all winter and just being on skis, but then obviously my speed is is well behind. But part of my training for all those relay races was I was doing track workouts midwinter, as opposed to there's been years where I didn't run a step from sometime in October to sometime in April. So then this year I was actually running and kind of hitting some trails because they're, yeah, a lot more available in Europe than it normally is in Colorado. They, yeah, changing climate, different climate and all that. So, yeah, I was running on some trails over there and then doing some really high quality track work. So I feel really good about my climbing, feel really good about my speed, feel really good about my overall fitness.
Speaker 2:But there's not really any trails open to run in Crested Butte really quite yet. There's a few that are that are great. It gets some more sun exposure, but, yeah, that's something that I won't have been as well prepared for. But I love technical running and I'll get warmed up on Saturday and and give it all I got on Sunday. So yeah, it'll be interesting, kind of coming in from a funny place.
Speaker 1:Love to hear it. I think, dude, I think a lot of people are in the same position too, like, unless you like, live near there or on, like, maybe at sea level or on the front range it's it's be hard to, uh, get on dry trails. It's weird because in the springs, like, we've had dry trails for a really long time. It's been strangely warm here.
Speaker 1:Um, so this course itself, like I said, two loops first loop is different from the second one. This is an interesting race because, like, as you've raced broken arrow before, you know, when you think about like the 46k right for a two loop race, usually the person leading the first loop might not be the person winning. When you think about strategy wise for a race like this, especially with how stupid fast most of these guys are going to take it out, do you have a, maybe a waiting back and kind of seed? Are you going to be aggressive, like, have you kind of thought that through, with how to approach this race, just because the stakes are high and it's like if I don't assert myself in the race right away, there's a chance I might not be able to get into it? Have you thought about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, that was uh, that was a really nice way of saying that. I led the first lap of the 46k at broken arrow last year and then had an epic blow up. So yeah, some people tend to do this. Yeah, just saying in general they say they do the same thing too.
Speaker 2:I mean mean it's, it's, yeah, yeah totally, um, yeah, man, I think there there definitely will be some turnover, um, some big turnover in that second lap. But I just I, uh, I have no idea where I am compared to everyone else. Like I, I feel great, I feel better than ever. I've learned a lot about myself. Just, yeah, with with um, taking more time to focus on my racing this past year, um, really, this past six months, like I took this winter, this coming summer and then next year I'm cutting back on work and going all in on racing, um, and that's given me a lot of room to, yeah, figure some things out, figure some things out about myself and just develop as an athlete. And I guess I'm kind of rambling. What point is I? Um, yeah, I have no idea where I'm going to be compared to these guys.
Speaker 2:Like, I haven't run a race since, um, I guess probably Pike's peak last year, and um, yeah, I'm just in such a weird place with trying to hold on to ski season. I've been injured the last two years and then, before that, had a few shoulder surgeries um, in previous years and, and skiing in april and may is my favorite thing in the world to do, and so, uh, this is my first chance to do that in a while, and so I've been really leaning into um, trying to hold on to winter and still get ready for these races. And so I'm skiing and then I'm running fast and flat um, yeah, I just have no idea where I am. So like I, uh, I love high pressure races. I love like having that moment on the line where, yeah, like I'm fighting for the win or fighting for, in this case, like top four, and like that do or die mentality, and I trust that I'll be ready when the moment comes. But I just I have no idea what what it'll be like, to be honest.
Speaker 1:All right, no, dude, listen, it's always. I have no idea what what it'll be like to be honest. All right, no, dude, I listen, it's always. I love how like honest you are and like how like real you are with yourself and with the audience. So I appreciate that. And, hey man, that could be a good thing. Like, if you don't know where you're at, that might be an awesome opportunity. Just, you're going to find out.
Speaker 2:So here we are for sure, yeah, yeah, and if, if, um, if I struggled and I'm looking forward to go programs the next weekend and then broken arrow ascent is uh, is the other one. I was circling a little bit more but, um, yeah, yeah, I got lots of chances to take a bite at the apple and, um, yeah, I'm just giving myself, um, giving myself those opportunities and looking forward to them. Fair enough.
Speaker 1:Are you? What kind of shoes are you bringing out there with you, like what? What type of Dina fits do you race in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll plan on racing in the DNA two. So it's that pink one. Uh doesn't have carbon but it has like a super high performance foam in it which I really like. I just trust a little more in technical trails and it's bouncy and fast and, uh, I think the pink's pretty hot, um, and then we'll see. Like I, um I don't think there'll be much weather to deal with, but it looks like the forecast is changing a little bit and so if it's muddier, um, I'll bring something with a little bit more like lug to it. Um, but yeah, I'll, uh, I'll leave on Friday and then, um, see what the weather looks like that morning and see what other options I need to bring Nice smart Um.
Speaker 1:Going back to expectations, I'm just curious, cause I know, like you said, you have a lot of opportunities. They take a bite at the apple. You're not quite sure where you're at. What would your expectation then be for yourself, for you it to, to make the team like would you be disappointed if you didn't get a spot? Or are you just want to just race the best your ability and then go give it another go? A broken arrow?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, uh, I would be disappointed if I didn't make it because, um, like, I recognize that maybe, like I'm, I'm coming in without obviously having made this a huge focus, but I race better when the stakes are higher and so I'm going to put that pressure on myself and I uh, one day I'll get to the place where I'm happy with giving it my best to know I did the best I can this day. But I, I'm just not there yet in life. Maybe give me another 10, 20 years and I'll be satisfied with subjective results instead of objective, but I am just not there yet in life. Maybe give me another 10, 20 years and I'll be satisfied with subjective results instead of objective, but I am just not there. And yeah, I'm going there to compete, I'm going there to earn that spot.
Speaker 2:If I'm coming through in that second lap in the top four, then I'm hunting for third and hunting for second and hunting for the win and gonna do everything I can that day. And if'm fifth or behind, that's all the same and I'll be disappointed. And then, um, feel sorry for myself for five or ten minutes and then celebrate and hang out with everyone that's out there and be stoked for the people that did make it, because I think whoever makes it will, will have been, will have had to earn it and will be the best athletes for the team. And then, after that five or 10 minutes of yeah, feeling sorry about it, I'll move on to what's next.
Speaker 1:I love it, dude. What a good answer. Man, you're always in such a good mental place, like I feel like I can ask you these things all the time, and you're very solid and steady with this. If you have the day you want and you make the team and you're going to Worlds, what would that mean to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I, uh, I made the team in Thailand and, uh, like, putting on that, that USA Jersey and having it be that, that running singlet, was like a childhood dream come true, like I grew up in Illinois and didn't know what schema was until I was 18. And I did not dream of being a schema racer. I dreamed of running with that USA logo across my chest, probably on a track, and then I was never very fast and it was never going to happen. And then this was, like my, my sort of second chance at doing that in a sport that now, uh, just aligns with my values and passions in life a lot better.
Speaker 2:And I had the time of my life, like we were only there for I don't know seven or eight days and I had so much fun I cheering on the other races and, um, dan and Joe and I were the three male ascent racers and I felt like we had a really good kind of camaraderie camaraderie between the three of us and, um, a lot of like the people on the ultra scene and western states folks like I've always read their names and I never met, and then I got to know a lot of them while I was there and it was just, it was an honor, it was a blast, it was a great opportunity to make memories and go somewhere I never would have been and and meet some just amazing people and and be part of this team.
Speaker 2:And it was, yeah, the experience of a lifetime. And I'm just trying to do it again because I know that in Spain this year, the US will have such a great team of amazing people and super fast athletes and we're going to be racing for medals and I want to be part of it, so it would, yeah, it'd be amazing.
Speaker 1:Dude, I love it. Beautiful answer. You know I don't know. This is interesting to me. If I was a betting man and thinking about this like dude, there's a possibility you might like. You could very well make the Ascent team and I'm not trying to get ahead of ourselves here, but like, could very well make the Ascend team, could very well make the Mountain Classic team, could very well be an Olympian. It's kind of crazy to think about where your potential future could go when you think about stuff like that. Obviously you probably don't get too caught up in thinking like that, but do you think about that? What would that mean to you? What would that feel like to be able to do all of these things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really caught up in the day to day. You know, like, objectively, the fact of the matter is, whatever I do for the next six months and six days perhaps it is, I think, until our uh, that world cup that decides the olympics, like it literally is, I have a good day, I'm an olympian, I get all of the usopc support that comes with that um, which they've just announced a change with the way they're supporting their athletes. It's basically a two200,000 difference to do that. You go to the Olympics, you're an Olympian for life. You get the experience of going there or you don't, and it depends on how I do over a 15 minute window six months from now.
Speaker 2:And like, I'm just not worried about it, like I'm just trying to, yeah, like I'm focused on this weekend right now. I'll be focused on the weekend after that next and, um, I'll uh, I'll look back on it all at some point, but I guess, yeah, the reason I bring up that like Olympic qualification is, um, I'm just really not that worried about like, yeah, whether I make it or not. Um, because I man, I gotta put these thoughts together Like I, I want it badly. Like I'll be overjoyed if I make it, I'll be devastated if I don't, but I know that, regardless of the emotions that happen on that day, I'm going to move on to what's next. So it's the same thing with Santa P. It's the same thing with broken hair. It's the same thing with with schema Like yes, I want it so badly, yes, it's a part of my identity, yes, it's like everything that I'm training for. But I know that I'll just move on to what's next, regardless.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's a beautiful answer. I think we'll call it on that. Kim Smith. Awesome. Wish you the absolute best of luck this weekend. I cannot wait for what your future holds, man, good or bad, or whatever. I'm rooting for you, buddy, and just your biggest fan, so wishing you the best of luck.
Speaker 2:Thanks, james, you're the best, and the whole running community has you to thank for just spreading some stoke, spreading some knowledge, and just all you do is lift people up. So, uh, thanks for letting me be part of it thanks, man, appreciate you listen up, guys.
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