The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#103 - Andie Cornish
Andie Cornish takes us on a breathtaking journey from the iconic peaks of Jackson Hole to the competitive world of mountain running. Growing up just minutes from world-class terrain shaped Andie into the dual-sport athlete she is today—excelling both as a ski mountaineer tackling serious Teton objectives and as an elite trail runner with impressive results at races like Broken Arrow.
During our conversation, Andie reveals how Nordic skiing methodology revolutionized her approach to training. Rather than following traditional running dogma, she embraces a more holistic perspective measuring effort in hours and vertical gain instead of just miles. This cross-disciplinary approach incorporating substantial mountain biking and ski mountaineering has kept her injury-free and mentally fresh while developing unique strengths for mountain challenges. "I think it's dumb when people say cross-training," Andie explains. "It's just training—everything goes together and time on feet is time on feet."
What truly distinguishes Andie's story is her remarkable resilience facing a recent diagnosis of Median Arcuate Ligament Syndrome (MALS)—a rare condition affecting blood flow during downhill running. Rather than allowing this setback to derail her athletic pursuits, she's brilliantly pivoted to focus exclusively on uphill races like the Broken Arrow VK and Pikes Peak Ascent. This adaptation has unexpectedly elevated her climbing performance to new heights: "I'm in the best uphill shape I've ever been in, breaking my records beyond anything." Andie's journey reminds us that sometimes our greatest challenges lead to discovering our true strengths.
Whether you're fascinated by the lifestyle of mountain towns, curious about training across multiple disciplines, or seeking inspiration for overcoming obstacles in your own athletic journey, this conversation offers valuable insights from someone who embodies the authentic spirit of mountain sports. Follow Andie's upcoming season as she tackles iconic vertical challenges in North America and Switzerland!
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today, with none other than Miss Andy Cornish, the dual sport mountain athlete based in Jackson, wyoming, came on the pod. She is both a ski mountaineer and mountain runner. We caught up to chat about a lot of things Andy is gearing up for in a race of the Broken Arrow set in just a few weeks. Uh, we talked about some of her experience racing a lot of the broken arrow races, including a top 10 finish at the 23 K a few years back. Um, we also chatted about some other uphill races that Andy's going to be taking on throughout the rest of the year.
Speaker 1:Um, we talked about what it was like to kind of balance, um, both being a ski mountaineer and that training modality along with mountain running and how one complements the other. We talked about the integration of mountain biking and how, being a mountain runner, you don't have to do just one thing, how she kind of took a lot of information from her ski basically ski background and has able to apply that to a lot of her training. So there was a lot of training theory talk in there too. And, last but not least, we talked about what it was like, what it is like and was like, if you will, growing up in Jackson, wyoming, kind of watching it change over the years, especially just being there and seeing how the town has just kind of transformed itself over the last few decades, which is kind of cool to talk about, especially with a lot of pressure on mountain towns, especially Jackson and others even in Colorado, like Telluride and others across the country. So really good chat. This was a personally like a really fun one for mine. We really enjoyed it. Can't wait to have Andy back on and wishing her the absolute best of luck as she takes on a couple of big races, but notably the Broken Arrow Ascent just in just a few weeks. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoyed this one.
Speaker 1:None other than Miss Andy Cornish. We'll be right back. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Andy Cornish, welcome back to the Steve's Self Podcast. How are you Good? How are you Doing good? Super excited to have a convo.
Speaker 1:Oakley Olson told me I should have you on the podcast and then I started doing some research, I was like I've heard your name so many times get brought up by so many different people, I was like we need to have a conversation.
Speaker 2:I oakley.
Speaker 1:I'm glad she's a sweetheart, sweet, very sweet girl. I was a little bummed. None of you, nobody, showed up to sonopy.
Speaker 2:I was hoping there would be like a deeper field I know not a lot of people, it was definitely a weird year for a lot of people. I mean, she, of course, was at ncaa, so that's pretty awesome and a whole bunch of life stuff for other people, and so it was definitely interesting to see who was on the start list versus who can make it and, um, I think sometimes it was early races. I know June's not necessarily super early, but having it out East when a lot of runners are based in the West can be super challenging. I know too.
Speaker 1:Makes it hard. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I was kind of hoping like and I love Tom and I love, uh, love that whole group, but like it would have been nice if we had like a as a Cirque series race this year. I feel like that should always be a mountain running champs, be pretty sweet, right.
Speaker 2:I know that was a lot. I mean, last year was my uh, first us champs and that was at snowbird and that was just like unmatched. Um so much fun and having it job and it was just there, was all the hype there and I'm sure some of you did a great job too. But the Cirque series, definitely drawing a larger crowd to not just the elite runners and I think that's what makes trail running special is having that big community.
Speaker 1:So it's true, it's very true. All right, so let's get in.
Speaker 2:I want to learn more about you, your background, kind of what you did collegiately, like maybe give me like the five minute elevator pitch on, like you know, your relationship with what's running, how you got into it and go from there. Yeah, um, so I actually grew up as a, I would say my main sport was an Alpine ski racer. Um, I'm from Jackson, wyoming, and so it's pretty typical in that regard and, um, you know, I, I did running every so often and I, you know you realize that you're good at it when you do like the time trials for Alpine skiing and stuff. But I never, um, didn't really get into it until my cousins, actually, and my brother started doing cross country in middle school and be, I was just super jealous and I was like that sounds so much fun, I want to do that. So when I hit sixth grade, I just kind of started doing it for fun, like I just wanted to be with my brother and um, then I had my first few races and I realized I was pretty good at it and it went from having. You know, it was still fun, but I started getting more competitive and realized like, wow, this is something I can really do. Um, but I continued to ski, like I love skiing just as much. But that's kind of started my love for running.
Speaker 2:It continued through high school and then I was like, ok, this is what I want to do in college. And so I ran at the University of Vermont, committed to run D1 there. My whole family had gone to Middlebury. We're all from the West but you know a lot of West Coast kids go East just for that experience. So that was, you know, love doing that.
Speaker 2:But during my summers I kind of always was drawn to the trails. Um, I would think I like largely got drawn because during the COVID that was like my freshman year I started ski mountaineering, um, and I was like, where has this been my whole life? Like I love being in the mountains, and I kind of realized that trail running was, you know, pretty similar, like I love to be in the mountains, and so I actually started. My first race was the Jackson Hole Hill climb, Um, and I was just like had the most fun I've ever had, but also just realized that climbing was like kind of what I was really good at.
Speaker 2:And so from there on out my junior senior year, I was kind of like all right, I think trail running is what I want to do post collegiately. Um, we'll see. You know, just kind of keep doing both and when, from there, you know, got 10th at broken arrow in 2023. And I was like, all right, like this is what I want to do, um, and so just kind of started doing that and then started integrating my ski mountaineering into that as well, and so that's kind of how I became the dual athlete of loving ski mountaineering, loving big mountain skiing, but also love to trail run and do all of that.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing. What a cool story. I got to ask you. Like obviously I've talked to a few athletes that have either grown up in the Jackson area or, you know, or obviously live there now. Like, what is it like growing up there? Like it must be, it must be crazy. Like it's obviously one of the most beautiful places, that that skyline is insane. Like, maybe talk about what it's like growing up there.
Speaker 2:It's pretty special it's, you know. It's funny though, because it's such a small town that I think a lot of us didn't quite get a grasp of how special that was. You know, you know how beautiful it is, but it really wasn't until, you know, you get a little bit older, you're in high school or then you go to college and people are just like, oh my gosh, like you don't even know where you're from, and I'm like, yeah, you're right, and obviously I appreciated it when I was younger too. But I'm just like every day, I'm so grateful that my parents chose to raise me there because, you know, living five minutes from the base of like one of the best ski resorts in the mountain, just having a community of people around me who love to be outside, having the access to national parks like two of the biggest and most popular ones you know, grand Teton and Yellowstone it definitely shaped who I am as a person and my love for the mountains. I think it's just like uncomparable and I think it gave me a big appreciation for just having that access and being able to have that privilege, to have the access that I do and live in somewhere like that, and you know it's, I think it's taught me a lot too, though, because living in a town like that can be super unique in the sense that things change a lot and it gets more popular and it gets busier and you know it starts to develop more, and I think that can be really hard in a community and you can see how it can change.
Speaker 2:You know, going from this little small town, and you know my dad was a ski mom and now you can't live there unless your parents had a house long time ago, and that can be really challenging to see people kind of being pushed out. Or like the question of if you, if I, wanted to raise a family there someday like that's really, you know, a hard thing to grasp, but it's, it's been really cool, and the people that I've been able to meet and the opportunities I've had have just been unbelievable and I'm so lucky. But it's hard because every time I go somewhere else I find myself comparing it to Jackson and I'm like I can't do that anymore, like everything has its own thing, um, but yeah, definitely very lucky, and I just like love to be able to share that with other people and encourage people to go out there when they can, because it's it's a cool place.
Speaker 1:I got a good question for you, and I don't mean this negatively. I'm just so curious because I almost come across negative with it, because so I live a couple of miles. Do you know where the what the Manitou incline is?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I live a couple of miles from the Manitou incline and when it becomes tourist season it drives me nuts. Now the level of tourism you guys get is like tenfold of what we get. How do you function like? How does it drive you nuts like?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's bad, um, and that is a big reason why it can be challenging and I think having my summer being my season of racing is I like it a lot because I can travel and be outside of it.
Speaker 2:Um, the tourism is definitely a lot.
Speaker 2:I know it runs our economy and that's cool, but I think the hardest part is that it's just like so many people and a lot of people who don't respect the environment in the way that you should, and so it's really hard to see the place that I love so much just get like really beat up by people who just don't seem to like have the care for the wildlife and the environment.
Speaker 2:And that can be really challenging because it's a special place and I think everyone should be able to enjoy that. But there definitely needs to be a little bit more of a switch into sustainable tourism in these areas or else it just won't last forever. And yeah, it becomes pretty hard to live there when there's one road leading to the resort, and so it takes me an hour and a half to get into town, even in the winter, just because the resort closes or the park road closes. It takes me an hour and a half to get into town even in the winter, just because the resort closes or like the park road closes, it takes me like an hour to drive nine miles, so it can be hard.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting, kind of crazy. Like I said, I don't mean to mind it, I just always have to ask because most of the people that I know that are in that area either live like, for instance, like Anna Gibson now is like close to the mountain resort, or like michelino formerly lived on the other side of where it was like driggs is a little quieter, like it's like not as much going on, so I feel like you could do more things, but like, if you're in jackson proper like dude that's, that's bananas, yeah, it's definitely, I think the off seasons we definitely, you know, try not to take them for granted.
Speaker 2:And you, you kind of find your way like there's a lot of places. I feel like it's still pretty local. You know a lot of trails where it's not like the big ones. You know you're not going to go hike delta lake in the middle of summer, which is like the most popular trail, or if you do, you know the right times. But, um, I feel like I'm able to handle it a bit. It's just there's definitely like the driving is the worst. It's a small town, lots of cars, um, so that can be hard.
Speaker 1:But one of the things I really enjoy. I was out there for a Cirque series grand Targi last year. And it was my first time to that range and I was just so astonished at how special it was. One of the things that blew me away was that, like I just saw more animal life, like there was more animals and that little, like whether it was grizzly bear, black bear, moose, like porcupine, everything is there.
Speaker 1:What is it like growing up Like? Do you just have like a special understanding? It's almost like people that grow up in Alaska right, where you just kind of have this like understanding and like no, like oh, that's a grizzly bear, you need to see what was that. What is it like growing up Like almost in running around or like exercising in woods, that like have like things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny you say that, cause I I feel like I tell people this a lot. For someone who grew up and has spent like hundreds, hundreds, I don't even know so many hours in that environment, I'm still absolutely terrified of animals and I think that. But not when I'm with people, like when I'm running alone and I'm in the woods or like I'm out in the Tetons, I just like have this fear like you know this, you know usual fear, but um, you know, like running into a grizzly, I'm like I'm still terrified. You know I'm not like, oh my gosh, like a grizzly, but uh, I don't, I think I'm just like a cautious person, but you definitely, I would say it's like I'm more used to it at this point.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, like you learn, since in school, since, like day one, they start teaching you how to use bear spray and like you know how to respect the moose and respect this and I have had over hundreds of moose visit my backyard and you definitely, just you know you gain an appreciation for the animals around you and like how to protect them.
Speaker 2:And you know I live on a road where the speed limit drops 10 miles per hour at night just for the moose and the bears. But yeah, just because I mean it just teaches you to be more cautious and understanding of where you are and really learn that, like you're recreating in their area, they're not recreating in yours and so, like you know, anything that happens to you because you weren't being smart is like going to be seen negatively by the community, like they're going to protect the animals more than they're going to protect you. Um, in a sense, you know like if you do something dumb, they're not going to be like oh, I'm so sorry. You know they, the animals, belong to you. They were there first and so that's definitely been interesting. But, um, once you get to know an area a little bit better, I feel like I'm comfortable in certain areas and but yeah, no, I love, love it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that answer. I was just so curious because you know, I was just blown away. I was like man, like there's a lot of you know in colorado, it's I don't know if it's because we have so many people.
Speaker 1:I live on the front range, like down by the springs, and like it, we, I just we don't see like every now and then maybe I'll see a moose, but very rare or like you know, and it's like we just don't have that density of wildlife in the area that we're in, but like cause it's so spread out, but like in that area I was like Holy shit, like there's everything out here. It's cool, um yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So I want to pivot a little bit. You're training right now. You said you were in Idaho doing some training out of that area. Like, maybe talk about like that area and what that's like is. I've never been to sun Valley, never ran around there before. The ski resort looks absolutely insane and like super rad. So maybe talk about talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you know, I think Idaho sun Valley area is definitely a little bit of a hidden gem, Um, and I think, in the regard that it's just not super accessible, like there's a big airport in Jackson, you know, with the national park and I think because there isn't a national park here, despite having the sawtooth wilderness area, it's just a little bit more quiet. Um, that's true, a lot of people in Jackson like to come here or even move here, just because it's people like to think it's how Jackson was 20 years ago. Um, but you know, there's like you're surrounded similar thing, it's more of a Valley versus being surrounded like a hole, but, um, unbelievable, it's like, you know, I don't even know, it's three or four different, maybe even five different mountain ranges surrounding you at all times and there's just unbelievable access. Um, really, you know, world renowned ski resort. There was the world cup champs here this year.
Speaker 2:Um, for Alpine. And, yeah, I'm really surprised. I always, whenever I run these mountains, I'm always surprised they only had that Cirque here that one time because, um, I just did a workout today up that mountain and it is steep, like, it is an unbelievably steep mountain and it's definitely grueling and so, and it's definitely grueling and so and it rises, you know, 3,200 feet and so it's a pretty, pretty intense mountain, um, for good training but also really really good mountain biking, skiing, backcountry skiing, it really has it all. Uh, so pretty similar to Jackson, but it's nice for me to kind of escape that and come here and train. There's a lot of professional Nordic skiers who come here to train because they have a professional team, um, and that can be really fun to train with them and run with them and bike with them when they're doing that.
Speaker 2:Oh talk about that Like cause I.
Speaker 1:I don't think people understand like how, like Nordic skier, I guess they're like monster athletes, right, like just insane aerobic engines, like that's how we have most of the best trail runners in the world are were Nordic skiers, nordic skiers. Maybe talk about what it's like to kind of train with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, I think you know, I am a runner so I can say this myself. But the joke that my boyfriend always likes to make is that runners have a hard time understanding how to like really train some, and I think that's just like a Nordic skier thing to say. But he's got a point in the sense that we don't really learn how to use our heart rate training. That's a new thing to us, right like we didn't learn how to fuel. I did 14 mile long runs in college, no gels and no water and that's just. I think running is a little bit the way that road runners train. It's transitioning now, but the way at least I experienced it is a bit outdated. And I think that Nordic skiers are just really in tune with their bodies in the sense that they heart rate train and they know, you know they do a lot of strength and but they also they're multi-sport athletes. They don't just Nordic ski to be fast, like they run and they bike.
Speaker 2:And I always found like I connected to that community a little bit more, because I was never just a runner. If anything, I was a skier more than I was a runner at some points, or I mountain bike a lot and that was pretty like. That was super different than a lot of people in college who I trained with. And when I went home for a whole winter and just ski mountaineered the whole time, you know people would kind of judge it, but then I'd come back and PR on every event and so it was like I found that I connected to that Nordic community more and so when I get to train with them here I feel like I gain a lot of insight on that and kind of how they train and how they see recovery and performance.
Speaker 2:But also it's just nice to be surrounded by athletes who maybe I'm not competing with in the exact same way right now, because that comparison and that competitive game can be really tough sometimes, as I'm sure you know, and trying to think that what you're doing is sometimes it's hard when I, you know, do a four hour mountain bike ride and I see someone else run 20 miles and I'm like, oh gosh, maybe I should be doing that. You know, and being around a ton of Nordic skiers has really helped me understand that like being multi-sport athletes and doing it all, um, I mean, I think it makes them some of the best athletes in the world the strongest and really capable of anything, which is pretty incredible.
Speaker 1:You said so many gems in there. That is so spot on. So I got injured. I had not a bad injury, but a nice little injury that derailed me for a little bit.
Speaker 1:So the beginning of my season forced me onto the bike over the last three weeks and dude, it's the first time I've been on the bike and I love it, it is. It is like such an unlock and I'm so mad at myself that, like I, you know you get in as a runner, you get in your own brain, right, it's like, oh, if I want to be a better runner, I have to run more, and that's not really just the case. Like you could do, you could do both, and you could do other things too to get extremely fit. Maybe talk about, like, how you utilize the mountain bike as well in your training and kind of how that makes you a more balanced athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, yeah, I really liked to like. I really hate when people say like the only way to be faster at running is running. I think I was told that my whole life and when you start running in college and stuff, it's like when you call it cross training, right, which I just think is so dumb because it's training like you're still training, and that's something I learned from the Nordic skiers. Like you know, they train on an hour basis, so it's not just like, oh, this is mileage or this is like cross-trained, it's just training. Everything goes together and they see, time on feet is time on feet and I think that's just a really healthy and smart way to look at it, because there's so much you can be doing to be fit.
Speaker 2:And I've found personally that when I integrate things like mountain biking and ski mountaineering into my training, I'm healthier, I'm happier, I'm more fresh when it comes to running and, honestly, I've prevented injury pretty well my whole life. I've been pretty lucky with that, because I think that those sports have given me a lot of strength in areas that a lot of runners don't get normally, and I feel like that's been super, super helpful to keeping me strong and able to do what I'm doing now, but I just feel like I, you know, being a multi-sport athlete is how I mean it doesn't. You know, some people are only runners and just being happier and um, but you know, maintaining a positive relationship with running still and being injury free, um, yeah, I just say whenever people are like, oh, cross training, and I'm like, it's just training, you're just gaining fitness, right, and I love that. I can like prove that to people and you know, spend a whole season skiing and then come back and be the fastest I've ever been, I'm like, see, like it's just training, you know, spend a whole season skiing and then come back and be the fastest I've ever been. And I'm like, see, like it's just training, you know, and I'm happy.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting to me I have, I have to be honest, like I feel like the Newark skiers kind of figured it out, and when I say figured it out, it's like I just think that their methodology just translates so much better to being a better mountain athlete, better belt, better mountain runner, runner, as opposed to I mean, granted, like there's still times like I still before I got hurt, like I was on the track a lot probably that's the reason I got hurt, but like, at the same time, I I think that there's there's balance in everything and there's a way to find it.
Speaker 1:But like, I think, the nordic skier, one from the heart rate perspective, two from the hour perspective, and just implementing those two little things and with the cross training I shouldn't say cross training with the, the mountain bike or with those other modalities, I think are just like such unlocks for people that like maybe just kind of are stuck in their own little bubble.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm a big fan. If you don't mind me asking, like, how much biking do you do, like on the mountain bike, because I know you can get a lot of vertical with it? Like, do you, are you more hour based? Are you more like, how much vert can I get?
Speaker 2:Like, how do you kind of yeah, I would say I like kind of both. Um, I definitely love getting a lot of vert. I see, vert is something to me. I've almost sometimes I feel like I switched even from mileage over to vert and just being like how much climbing I can get right now, um, and so it's yeah, it's kind of just like how your body, I mean, I would say it's yeah, mix of hours, invert, um, but I, you know, I kind of alternate with running and if it's not mountain biking, it's you know, the skiing, it's winter, it's all skiing.
Speaker 2:But and then running like twice a week, but I would say in the summer I switched to, you know, I would say running more, you know, four, three or four times a week and then biking the other days, or a lot of times I'll do doubles where I like run smaller in the morning, bike in the afternoon, um. But I just feel like a big part of where my fitness can come from is having those big endurance based days and that, you know, in the winter that can come from these six hour skis that I do in the mountains. And I think that's harder to do with running, because that's all the time, because if you do that all the time you know you're going to probably get injured, more or more tired, and it's just more time on feet. But with biking, you know you can be grinding out there and mountain biking so hard but for hours, you know four plus hours and do a big day and I think that adds a lot to your base, like the big amount of the big sessions of lots of hours I think are super crucial, at least to me as an athlete, and I feel like that's a little bit harder with running to do all the time.
Speaker 2:But when you can add biking in there and make it mountain biking, I think you can get that vert and you're you're testing those same muscles that you would in an uphill running, not just on the, you know, on the road bike it can just be flats and that's fine, but I've found that mountain biking has been like the exact kind of muscles that you use for running and the exact cardio feeling. That I think is perfect, a perfect combination.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think you nailed it. You know, what I want to get into is like I haven't done it yet because I'm still coming back, but start biking to the bases of peaks, running up the peak and then running down.
Speaker 2:Do you ever?
Speaker 1:do anything like that, any of those objectives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was thinking about that a lot. I mean, we definitely do it in the springtime, with skiing, a lot of those snow, the snow line kind of gets really high, and so there's a lot of mountain biking to skiing, which is cool, but I think there is definitely more in my. I was thinking about this today because the trails, the house that I'm staying at, connect directly to the mountain, and so I think it'd be cool to do like your own version of like a duathlon, right, but it's mountain biking and running, um, and I, yeah, I definitely want to do some stuff like that because I think that can just be more fun. But also there's, you know, there's a lot of mountains out there where the approach might be miles of flat, and doing that on a bike might make this more efficient. Um, you know, still getting the same hours, fitness, but just changing the modes. So I'd like to, I'd like to get into it more for sure, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's like opened up I. I like I biked up a pass the other day, like up to the base of a peak like a 13er, and I was like, oh, like this would be really fun to run up and down. I was like I'm gonna have to save that one. Yeah, I just got the gears turning on my head and a lot of people have been doing it for a while, so like kyle richardson and so like Kyle Richardson and guys like that, but like, yeah, it's cool stuff.
Speaker 1:I want to talk schema with you, so are you? I know ski mountaineering is different, like ski touring is different from ski mountaineering. If you will, like what? What is your kind of sweet spot? Do you race schema or do you? Are you just more back country? Like what do you? What is your style?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I kind of I for a while, I would say, I mean up until now. Currently my version of ski mountaineering is not racing. I just love, you know it's when you think of like the Tetons, you go ski the Grand, you go ski the middle, I mean searching for couloirs, skiing big lines, even doing some like free ride competitions. That has kind of interested me.
Speaker 2:And this year I kind of almost got drawn into that ski mode community. You know, I signed up for Wasatch um powder keg. I was like this is what I want to do. But then I got COVID and couldn't go and it kind of caused me just to sit there and realize that I think I was doing that just simply because I thought that's what I had to do with ski mountaineering. Like I have all this fitness uphill and like, okay, I have to race, but I just am not drawn to the racing side of that.
Speaker 2:I think it's a very different community than what I'm looking for in backcountry skiing and ski mountaineering as a sense of, like you know, being out there for a long hour and I think a lot of ski people do that but I'm not necessarily looking to race. At least the way that it's transitioning in the U? S where it's more sprint oriented, it's more on piece, like I want to be off piece, skiing big traverses, skiing big lines. I feel like that's what makes me the happiest and I feel like, growing up as a ski racer, I've been able to become a pretty decent skier and I want to.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like I could show that in SkiMo and I think that that can be shown more in, you know, ski mountaineering or you know more back free ride comps and stuff like that, which I know is like I think I got drawn into the Ski mode because it's not often or I don't really know many people who are trying to do the whole. Uh, you know, I'm a professional trail runner but also I'm a skier and um, but I just really made that decision for myself this year that I was going to set that narrative and that I don't have to fit that mold necessarily. Um, and I am gonna, you know, be like supported in both being a skier and a runner, um, and not just like a ski mode, in both being a skier and a runner, um, and not just like a schema like Killian and all that, and I think that's amazing what they do, but I can be a big mountain skier and a you know endurance athlete at the same time. So that's kind of how I find it and I'm, it's all new.
Speaker 1:I'm navigating that. I think it's kind of a new world that's opening up, and so I'm trying to figure out how that's going to look for me. But I'm definitely excited about that. That's super cool. I want to talk about some of the big peaks, like skiing. Some of the big peaks, like the grand and things like that, like on the t-towns, like maybe talk about like what it's like. It's like obviously there's ropes, sometimes there's ice, like there's a lot of stuff that goes into like skiing.
Speaker 1:The grant, like yeah maybe talk a little bit about like that, like maybe, yeah, paint that picture for the audience yeah, absolutely, and I sadly didn't get to ski.
Speaker 2:One of my objectives right now is the grand, and it's more that I just haven't timed out, like the weather perfectly for it. But um, you know, I got to ski the middle again for the second time this year and, um, you know, it's like the 50 classics, like what cody townsend does. The middle of the east face is one of those, but it's, you know, I found I kind of started doing it with my friends during COVID and we were we're all endurance athletes but we just found like, okay, we're also skiers. You know, we grew up in Jackson. You know we don't want to just go up Like, we want to go down too and do it for the downs, but it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:You know, you're combining it's really challenging going uphill, like you're combining gaining 7,000 feet of vert with heavy skis on because you're not wearing skimo skis. You're usually wearing pretty touring skis but they're not tiny skis. You got a lot of stuff in your pack, you got ropes, you got climbing gear and you're climbing. I mean, you're starting a lot of times at like 3 am getting up there and then when you're on top of these peaks you're navigating some like very scary and like life-threatening terrain, which I think is something that kind of draws you to. It is that excitement, that thrill of being out there, but also, you know, acknowledging that like you can kind of guide yourself through that when you get really anxious, when you get really nervous, when you're up on a mountain like that, and you have to trust your ability that you can ski, that you can descend and you can get your friends down with you as well. And I think that's something that's really special, because it's not just like I love skiing powder don't get me wrong but there's something special about skiing this line that you know is like maybe a no fall zone or something that is pretty scary, but also having the ability to stay calm and trust your instincts and trust your you know all the knowledge that you've gained about avalanches and all that to descend, and I just think there's a lot you can learn from the mountains.
Speaker 2:You know, I think there's a ton that you can learn out there that you can't necessarily learn when you're running either, because when you're running you definitely have that like you don't want to fall, but there's not necessarily avalanches or other stuff out there that could impact you, um, and so I just think it makes you be more in tune with what you're doing and like more intentional about the stuff that you want to do. But also, you know, you constantly have to be evaluating because you want, like, my life is more important than a turn, and I want to be skiing for the rest of my life, but I don't want to, you know, end my life. But I don't want to, you know, end my life early because I did something dumb. So there's a lot that goes into it, a lot of learning, and I really like that.
Speaker 1:It's so crazy on the learning topic. So you as a schema, obviously there's like a heavy mountaineering component, like with a capital.
Speaker 2:M in the sense like ice axes crampons, ropes.
Speaker 1:How did? Did you have someone teach you how to do this? Or like, did you kind of just figure it out yourself.
Speaker 2:Like how does that?
Speaker 1:work. That's like the most intimidating factor for me. A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Definitely still is for me as well. I mean, I like didn't grow up a climber per se, but with our school being in Jackson, very unique, a lot of our teachers are mountain guides in the summers and so with our school we climbed the Grand when I was a freshman and that was kind of my first experience with ropes and harnesses and all of that. And you know it's it's not something I'm doing all the time, but it's something that I just like learned. You learn the basics, you kind of constantly practice with your friends and then, yeah, I would say it's it's definitely just like learning. I have a lot of friends.
Speaker 2:I've been going out with people who know more than me, and that's most people like if you have a good group, they're going to be patient with you and understand that you just especially being a female in this, you know, in this scene it's not like I, it's scary, sometimes it's intimidating, like I don't want to ask for help, I want to show the guys like I don't need your help, but in that stuff, like you know, you want to learn, you want to, you want to be self-sufficient, um, and you want to be safe, and so I feel like that's like kind of the biggest thing for me still is just learning.
Speaker 2:All about that. I think the more you're out there, the more you learn, the more experience. Like hands-on experience is the best that you can get. Um, and like starting with smaller lines and smaller rappels and working your way up and just being with people who are willing to like talk you through a move if you're nervous about it. That's like key, I think. Um, because you're not just you can learn about something online, but until you're practicing it in person, it's it's challenging it's true.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so cool. Uh, it makes me want to go like, do big, like efforts like that. I don't know, I feel like it's an exciting thing, so for sure. So one of the things I glossed over and I do want to kind of double back to, I we we talked to you, you briefly mentioned um going out to Vermont for college as an athlete to go run.
Speaker 1:I got to ask you about that experience and the reason I bring it up is because so many athletes come on this podcast and so many of them have either a really good experience or, like a not so good experience on the running scene. What was your experience like going back, like in college, as a runner, like whether on the cross country or on the track team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say my experience was, I mean, it was very unique in the sense that COVID definitely took away some pretty solid years of that experience, which was a bummer Um. But my first year was really rough, and not because of UVM and not because of my team, but I just like went to the East and it was new and I was just like, oh my gosh, like this is just crazy, and I don't think that's talked about enough about like freshman year is hard and I was like I'm going to transfer, like I'm going back West. But then COVID hit and I had six months and I honestly think COVID saved me in that regard because I went back home and I was like you know what? I'm going to try UVM again. Like here we go. And then, like I absolutely loved it Vermont is just one of my favorite places in the world now and I got so lucky with a team of girls who are so unbelievably supportive and I think that that was just key, because I think if the team can make everything, the coach can make everything.
Speaker 2:And it's hard because, with COVID and everything, uvm lost a lot of funding for the team and so they ended up having to like and the boys team was, you know, at risk of getting cut, and so they ended up having to add like 30 new girls to this roster. And so this D1 team was all of a sudden massive and we were all like, what does this mean? But it just turned out to be a group of girls who, like, were really passionate and really wanted to be there. Even when, maybe, scholarships got taken away, they were still showing up every day and just like an unbelievable family. That was just super special and we all helped each other through some really, really rough times with the COVID stuff. And I got so lucky because I know that some people's experiences were just hell on earth and I have truly never met a more positive environment to be around.
Speaker 2:Um of girls who really, like, made me and guys like fall back in love with running and competing. Even when maybe it's like you know you're coming from high school, it's all of a sudden you're not, you're at this new level and it's hard to find your place in that. But I, I absolutely loved it. I think Vermont and the East is a really special experience because you are so close to all of these people, right? So I got to go to BU and race on that track every weekend and like I got to be there all the time and be in these like hot, you know D1 big meets and really challenge myself versus. I think at West that requires a little bit more travel, which can be hard, and you just get to meet more people from different areas of you know the East and all over the world. You know country world and that was cool. You know my roommates were. I live with nordic skiers and so I had a swedish roommate and a russian roommate and like it.
Speaker 2:Just it was cool. Yeah, it was a cool, I really loved it. Um, I'm glad that I gave it another chance and just you know, like you know, covid pass and moved through it. So the east coast is legit.
Speaker 1:I'll be out there thursday we're going out I'll be out there for a few weeks. It's uh, I have family out there. It's it.
Speaker 1:It's just different I don't know because it's like hard to explain it's oh yeah, just different I love it oh I gotta ask you about the covet situation for you. Like what was that? I don't think I've ever had had anybody on the podcast that like, obviously all of our experiences were different. Right, it was a terrible time in the world, but like, what was it like being a student? Like did they send you guys home? Like did you stay? Like what were?
Speaker 2:you guys, it was pretty crazy. Vermont was very intense about it Um, and rightfully so, but they were just a very small state who kept their numbers down very early on, and so they were very strict. But it was just like we went home for spring break. Some teachers mentioned, hey, maybe you should bring books home, but we were like, no, okay. And then we, yeah, halfway I was on a ski, I was ski touring, and I got an email and said you know, you're not coming back, we don't know when you'll come back, which was we.
Speaker 2:At that point we were like, let's go. You know, I was, I was all bummed, I was like I don't want to go back to school, I'm having a hard time. And yeah, you know, I think it was a very unique experience for me in the sense that I lived in Wyoming and there's, like you know, it's the least populated state in the country. So I life was practically normal for me, in the sense that I'd get up, I'd run and I'd go ski right every day. It was just training and then being with my pod of friends. I had a blast during COVID, but I know a lot of people did not have the same experience. But then, when I went back to school, they brought us back. They said you know, I came back to run essentially, and it was just, it was a very, very tough experience.
Speaker 2:I was in a dorm alone. I had no roommate at the time, couldn't be in the dorm with anyone, and you know, it basically was one hour a day of running with masks on with my roommates or teammates, and then 23 hours a day where I some days I wouldn't even talk, like I wouldn't speak, until I picked up the phone and called someone because we were on lockdown, um, and that was really challenging. I don't think that the schools were prepared enough to really understand how that would affect students and there was a lot going on, um, and then, of course, like I stayed this whole time I trained, I worked so hard and then, right before our first real race, I got COVID, and so it was just like this, letdown after letdown. I think it taught me a lot and I am still grateful for that experience, but it was. It was a very interesting switch from being like the happiest I love COVID, I'm like living in Wyoming to just being like locked down for, you know, practically my entire sophomore year.
Speaker 1:So Wow, that's so crazy. You know I was at a. I had finished. I think I was in my last year. Yeah, I was in my last semester of grad school when it hit so we did like our last few classes.
Speaker 1:I was getting my MBA, so it was like one of those things where it was kind of a rotating classes, um so, but they just moved us online and we kind of finished that way and it was just done. I didn't even go to my, my graduation or anything like that, because it's like nobody goes to it for grad school, but like it was uh, it was just like interesting to be out of it and you know. But it's crazy to hear like what the undergrad experience was, was like that because it's, you know, definitely not an easy thing to go through.
Speaker 2:So thanks for painting that picture yeah, no, it's tough time'm it was. It was fun to make it out on the other side and really appreciate, you know, being around people and still getting a, you know, semi-normal college experience.
Speaker 1:So big time, big time. All right, let's talk trail running. I've kind of kind of pushed us along. We haven't even talked running yet. All right, we got broken arrow. In a few weeks I'm sure you're super stoked on it. You'll be going out for Broken Arrow, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, okay. So basically I mean long story short, the reason I wasn't at Sunapee too, and I'll keep this short too, but I started dealing with some weird stomach stuff the last fall, kind of around Marin Headlands, and it's been a long journey. I thought it was like ulcers. I didn't raise headlands and you know, I like it was just a weird time. You know couldn't really figure it out, but I kind of recently was more diagnosed with this thing called MALS, which is the median arcuate ligament syndrome, which is super rare syndrome that not a lot of people get what they think but it actually happens in a lot of young females.
Speaker 2:It's not often talked about a ton, but essentially there's a ligament in my upper stomach that is compressing the main artery that gives blood to my gut and so navigating that essentially like everything is fine, I don't have pain. But I discovered the only time I have pain is when I run downhill, and so essentially the only thing I can't do right now is like really race downhill fast, and I'm lucky there is a procedure you can get to fix it. But because of this I've just been training like more vert than I've ever trained in my life and it's been all uphill and like, like I looked at the strata the other day and it was like 50% more vert than last year. I've just been as much vert as possible all the time because uphills just aren't what's bothering me, um, and whether that be skiing and biking and stuff, and so, you know, I thought about Sunapee but I was like I kind of want to set the narrative this year and not that, oh, like I don't want to go to races that are going to make me feel like, oh, you're sidelined, you can't do this, but like I want to go to races where I'm setting myself up for success and in that being, the VK at Broken Arrow is a big one.
Speaker 2:But yeah, suddenly, you know it was definitely been a journey, but what's interesting is just like I've started doing more time trials and uphill stuff and I've just found that I'm in the best uphill shape I've ever been in, like breaking my records beyond anything. You know, I just did a time trial today, that kind of mimicked like the Broken Arrow course, and I was just like the fastest I've ever been. So, um, yeah, I'm definitely just trying to like move through what's a bummer and definitely something that I wish I wasn't going through, but also that it's not like sidelining me or anything it's. I want to just like move forward with attention and strength and prove to myself that, like I can't get through this and even be a better athlete at the end of the day um so long story. That's why I didn't go to Sunapee and I'm going to go race the VK at Broken Arrow, and then I have a long list of races and international and national that are like mainly uphill, uh races. So that's, I'm kind of excited for that.
Speaker 1:I love it. I saw your Pikes Peak application. By the way, I'm on the board so I get to. I get to approve and disapprove.
Speaker 2:I saw.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, I saw you applied. I was like yes, so you should get it you should be getting an email suit from Kathy. She didn't know yet for your bike, speak anyway. Um, that's just such a crazy thing. So you, you are, you are, you think you're going to get the surgery eventually, or like, what's your thought, oh yeah for sure I'm going to have it in the fall and you learning about it.
Speaker 2:But, um, there's a lot of case studies I've found and it's a lot of, yeah, young female athletes, runners, specifically triathletes, and the way it presents itself is it just feels like it starts off like a side stitch, like a cramp that anyone has, and so I was like I just have stomach issues, but, um, it just turns when you run downhill with a lot. You know, when you continuously run downhill, that side stitch is just like think about the worst side that you've ever had and how like horrible you know you can't even run and it's like that all over your stomach. Um, so, yeah, I just I've been finding out a lot about it. It's crazy, but, um, yeah, it's been, it's definitely been an experience. Um, and the hardest part has been navigating it with. You know, right now I'm in the middle of transitioning, kind of through sponsorships, because I'm trying to find a sponsor that's going to support me more through running and skiing not just running and it's been.
Speaker 2:You know, it's hard to like navigate that and fear that if you express this in public, someone's going to think, oh, you know she's broken, she's not worthy of this.
Speaker 2:But you know I'm trying to set that narrative in the sense that, like, I have this, but, you know, if anything it's made me stronger and you know it proves that you can like push through things, and I want to be that outlet for other people in running to show that, like you know, it's not all just like happiness and everything is great, like shit happens, it sucks, but you know you there.
Speaker 2:The cool thing about trail running is it's so diverse and you can change exactly like what you want to race and how you want to race and you can really, you know, move your life around to, you know, still continue like, move how you want to race around to kind of, I don't know, go around with what's happening in your life. It's not just um, doesn't just have to be the certain race that everyone thinks is the you know the best ones or something, even though it's hard like missing some of you was so hard for me and missing the 23 K is going to be really challenging. But I, you know there's just I have so much more to offer than just you know, going. You know sitting in the sidelines being sad, like there's so much I want to do, and so that's what I kind of hope I can get to do this season.
Speaker 1:I love the adjustment and, like you know, fortunately we've got a lot of really solid, amazing uphill races in this country and abroad that, like you, could make a whole like fun season and you're not even going to be tired because, like, running uphill is amazing.
Speaker 2:So it's a win-win. Oh, it's a huge win-win and that's it's cool. I think, um, I'd love to kind of just like figure out a way where I can kind of document that or like have these, share these experiences of, yeah, okay, my season is going to be kind of all these iconic uphill races in the U? S and outside of the U? S, and that's different than what most people are doing. But, like, these are really really awesome races which I love, um, have done before.
Speaker 2:But I'm excited, like I think that, you know, it's even hard to find when I was like in the, when I was on Google uphill races like nothing comes up, just like VKs or like random stuff, and you really have to dig for it. But they're out there and that's what's interesting to me, because I'm like this in itself is its whole other version of trail running. You know there's the VK, you know there's VKs, yeah, but there's also like hill climbs where it's you know 13 miles, 5,000 feet of elevation, it's still. You know it's there's just it's kind of unknown, like form of trail running, I think, or not unknown, but like people aren't really focusing on it. So I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Well, you've got, and the best thing is that you got rendezvous right in your backyard. Like that's such an Epic. I want to. I got to get out to go do that race like yeah I just have to be like, I have to make that happen one of these years. I saw I looked your strava before our conversation.
Speaker 2:I saw you've done it a couple times, doing it four times in the same week, I think it's amazing.
Speaker 1:I was like that's all I would do if I lived there. Like that's, it's like what is it? Like six miles and like four thousand almost five thousand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, perfect for someone who really can't run down and just take the tram down yeah, yeah, right I feel like you could just take the tram down and then go back up. Take the tram down.
Speaker 1:It's like perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty great.
Speaker 1:I do want to transition back to Broken Arrow, because this is a big year. Like Broken Arrow, the ascent it's kind of cool that you can just like put your focus just on the ascent Whereas, like you see people doing a lot of distances and maybe there's distraction there. You know, I think that might be like a superpower and like really help a lot, especially because this is such a big year. What would it mean to you to have a good result?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think, obviously, going through all of this it would be unbelievable. But it's interesting because, with all of this uphill training, you know that last, you know, about a month ago, I was kind of like, well, do the VK because it's the only thing I can do, and then I started, you know, doing some of these like time trial efforts and stuff, and all of a sudden it became like I realized, like no, I could, you know, I could do really well and I could, I could, I could place. You know, this is something that maybe could happen, um, and so I just I think it would be, yeah, really really special. Um, you know, it's a lot of appreciation, the fact that, like, I'm dealing with this unknown illness, whatever, but still being able to like push my body and be stronger than I've ever been, is something that I think is super special.
Speaker 2:And to be able to really put those pieces together and show that, um at a race like this would just be awesome. I think it would, yeah, it'd be super cool. I I mean, obviously, as you know, anyone would love it, but I, uh, I see how hard I've worked, like it has not been an easy, you know, however many months and I know how much effort I've put into just like completely changing this whole schedule and changing my whole training routine and um, having a result like that and you know, I know I'm fit just being able to show it and like have the rate the pieces go together, would be pretty spectacular.
Speaker 1:And broken arrow. I feel like cause I. I looked at your ultra sign up to broken arrows on there a lot Like you've raced broken arrow a lot I feel like it's very integral to your story, right Like it's such an important race for a lot of people Like it's, it's, you know, I don't know, it really matters to a lot of people, this type of race. It's such an important one.
Speaker 2:No, it really is. I mean, that was kind of my first race out of college where I kind of you know, I was just like I didn't really know how I do, I just had raced local races before and I remember coming up to the second we had to do two laps that year because of the 11, because of the weather or something and Andy Wacker was standing there and he was just like you're in 10th, like you could get top 10 women, and I just remember, like my heart sinking in a good way, I was like this is it. You know, like finally I can show this and and having that result, yeah, it kind of did change everything for me, because that's when I met um, the athlete manager for Solomon, that later that night we got talking, she reached out to me, and that's when I was on Solomon for the year, um, so that was really really cool, really awesome experience and I feel like it was just really showed me like this is what trail running is about. You know, like, at the end of the day, it's about community. It's fun to be fast, it's fun to be good at what you're doing, but I love it because I feel like there's just this amazing community of people who will show up for you no matter what, who will support you no matter what, and it's not just about the elites, it's also about everyone there, and that's important, because I think that that's why child running is getting more popular, because it's something that, like, everyone can do and it can bring everyone into the mountains.
Speaker 2:And, um, as a professional like I think it's our job to inspire people and create a sense of community rather than just being, like this idol, like I want to be someone people can come talk to and have, you know, go on runs with, and be someone who, like I'm, obviously I want to be fast at the end of the day, but also, like you know, someone that people enjoy to be around and I can, you know, help other people through their journeys and stuff, and so I feel like Broken Arrow kind of resembles that as a whole. Um, so I you know I always keep going back to this race. I love it, so it's a sweet one.
Speaker 1:It's a sweet. I didn't listen. We're happy to get you at Pikes as well. What else do you? What elsevous, what else are you looking at for?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, so this weekend I'm actually going to the mount ashland hill climb. It's in, it's, you know.
Speaker 2:The second longest, whatever they say um found that one through, I think, an article that andy wrote um really excited about that. And then two days later I'm actually gonna go ski mount shasta. So that's pretty exciting, kind of a duo right there, um. And then, yeah, I got broken arrow and then I'm thinking um mid-july of doing the, the baldy 5000, the new race that hoka is kind of putting on um. That looks really interesting pretty close to me. And then the big one, the big two, I guess. I'm going over to switzerland and I'm racing the barhorn sky race, which is the 3k, which is starting in the valley to the top of the highest hikeable peak in the Alps. So it's like 10,000 feet of elevation, elevation gain all up Um. And then that's two weeks before I'm going to do Sierra's and all um, which is, you know mainly. I mean there's descent but it's primarily about the ascent in that race.
Speaker 2:And so for sure still want to do that race, but those are kind of gonna be two big ones, um that I'm excited for, and then obviously coming back for pikes and the rut VK probably, and then anything else that falls in there. But I got some big heavy hitters in there for sure.
Speaker 1:Yo, and the rut VK is a good one too. That's a that's a solid course, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've only ever done the 28 K and I was always like the vk, whatever. You know, I always used to look at vks. It's interesting. I was like it's not the real racing, you know, it's not even, it's not even hard like the other ones. Then it's like actually the way harder at least, um, but I love the 28k. That was the first year too. I got six at that and that was kind of another big race for me. Um, but to be able to go back and be I love that community as well and still get to do a race and it's really competitive. The VK, you know it's, it's challenging.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, it's usually I mean very solid, like depth, like as far as women go like obviously Kim Smith's there every year. Jen Lickner like Bella Kowalczyk like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a who's who. I want to. I want to. So you mentioned a few things about sponsorship and I got to ask you about this because you, you, you know, you had mentioned, like I'm looking for someone that is going to obviously support me on the run side but also the ski side.
Speaker 1:I like that I like that, that you know that that's front and center for you, especially being so young in the sport. What, what brands are you interested in? Yeah, um, yeah, no Well no-transcript talking to.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty excited about a few brands, but a lot of those like I would say in that, in that realm of like skiing and running, there's a lot of big ones that people always like kind of yell out. And it's like Sportiva is a big one that people talk about, north Face Mamou is one that's really I mean, they're really getting into the trail scene as well, and then Arc'teryx is a big one that's kind of moving in that field and I think there's just yeah, there's a lot. When you talk to those athlete reps and you'd have meetings with people like that, you discover like they're really excited about having a multi-sport athlete and not just like, oh well, you know, you're just a runner to me and you have to rate, not that it's bad, but Solomon was very golden trail oriented and I just see myself as like racing is fun but also like being in the mountains and doing big mountain adventures is a huge part of who I am, and so that's really important to me. And I think, while it was a bummer, the Solomon stuff was over, it was like kind of a perfect time for me to sit back and be like all right, like you wanted it, like you wanted to transition, you want something that's going to provide you more and like, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2:And so this has been a really unique and cool period to be able to kind of think about that, which I think you know better for worse stuff, like that happens then as a young athlete I'm 24 like I'm lucky, I've got time. I've got time to decide, like, where I want to be and what's really going to suit me. Um, but I really just want to be seen like I am multi-sport and I'm not just like okay at running and okay at skiing. Like I want to do best but do both at the best level possible, like with the skiers and the runners, but both you know yeah, yeah, no, I think it's a beautiful answer.
Speaker 1:What, uh, what shoes are you rocking, then? Like, what have you been wearing these days?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, well, I mean it kind of been interesting because I've just been in like Solomon and I have so many Solomon shoes still that I've been like wearing a lot and obviously you know like they're ultra glides. But I did just try out some of the Arcteryx um Norvans shoes that they have really liked, them, really awesome. I think they're doing an amazing thing, kind of upgrade, you know, upgrading and like focusing on their trail line. That's really exciting for them. Um, and you know I'm friends with like Jasmine, who just joined Arterix and all and they just seem to really really really like the, the shoes that they're producing and all of that.
Speaker 2:Um, you know it's funny because before Solomon I was like a heavy speed goat wearer and I'm interested to see if that you know that's something that like how they've kind of progressed in the years that I haven't worn them and stuff like that. But yeah, recently I've been in the Norvans which I've really really liked and kind of running out the ends of my you know I have like the Genesis and the S-Lab Genesis all which like still amazing shoes and like wonderful Right, and so like there's no reason for me not to continue to run in those until I'm supported again further. But yeah, I mean I'm kind of just like in the open right now looking at it all seeing, you know, trying out some shoes, trying out different things that I like to make sure I don't have really picky feet I can kind of wear whatever. But sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I like it, I like it. Listen, I think I mean, arc makes some great shoes. I, one of my best friends, is an Arc ambassador and yeah, I've got to see some of the Norvans up close. I'm like, damn, that's a solid shoe. Yeah, their innovation is coming a long way, so it's cool to see that. Yeah, there's a lot of cool brands, a lot of good shoe technology going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, a lot of these big skiing brands are really starting to focus, realizing that where they can start being marketable is in the running field of it too, and not just having, like a hiking shoe, like a really good running shoe, that's going to compare to the Salomons and to the Tareks and to the Brooks, right, because that's how you can compete, but they're kind of, you know, it's obvious that they're learning that they can kind of out-compete in the sense that they can be like our Tareks and like Mamu and you know I don't know North Face big skiing brands, but also to have the running side of that and be good quality, not just like, oh, one or the other.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's like how I see myself, right, it's like you want to be good at both and do both well, and I think that's a really big thing that these companies are starting to do and that can really push them to be super successful in North America and beyond. And so it's going to be interesting to see how that develops in the next few years and as more people get into trail running and more people getting skiing and more people see it as a dual thing, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, this is all good stuff. This is a yeah, this is a good conversation. It's interesting to me just how, yeah, things have progressed and you know just kind of where these brands are at now, especially from like a couple of years ago. I mean especially like, uh, when I got into the sport maybe five years ago. It is just so crazy to see, like, where the shoe technology has gotten. Yeah, it's nuts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy All right, so let's get into. Uh, we're almost about an hour, we're getting close, so I want to get into some ending questions I want to make sure we always get. The first one is, and I'm very curious who inspires you? Um?
Speaker 2:I think about this one a lot. Um, you know it's I, it's cheesy and of course, like this is what everyone says, but, um, of course I'm gonna. My brain immediately goes to my mom and I think in both my parents, but she has like both of them, but she's just really raised me in a household of just being like women can do it just as well, if not better. Like she's so independent and strong and smart and just like has always kind of made me feel like if there's something that the guys are doing like you can do it better, you can be right with them. Like she never was, like oh no, like honey, like the boys do it. She's like you ski with the boys today and like you deserve to be there. So obviously that's like a cheesy answer right now. I mean, that's something everyone probably says, but I think it's so important to like have.
Speaker 2:I'm grateful to be raised in a house like that, where my parents really, you know, believed in me since day one in the sense that, like being in a male dominated sport is hard, and they've never made me feel like oh, just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I can't do certain things Right.
Speaker 2:They have never like made comments, being like, if anything, it's like you can do it and do it better than these guys that you you know you're doing it with and you belong right there, which I think is really important because it just as a young female, like having role models and people in your life who can prove that to you and inspire you in that way, um, that can change who you are as an athlete as a whole, and that's something I'd love to be. For other people, you know other young females who, in the sport, just to know, like, just because it's like a field where maybe it feels like it's catered towards men doesn't mean like we can't take up space and anything. We should be taking up space, um, just as much because, yeah, why not?
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. I gotta ask you this so you dad, you said your dad was a skier. I think you even said ski bum, which I thought was was kind of cool. Um, obviously back in the day, right, like how does this work? Like, obviously your parents, it sounds like very athletic oriented, things like that. So when you told them, hey, I want to be professional trail runner, yeah, they're like andy, you're crazy. Or were they like very athletic?
Speaker 1:oriented things like that. So when you told them, hey, I want to be professional trail runner, they're like Andy, you're crazy. Or were they like very supportive of it, Like how did that go?
Speaker 2:I think it's funny because it never really like came out. I was like, mom, this is what I want to do. I think it was just like kind of of years of progressing right, like all of a sudden I'm running in college. But then, you know, I told my parents I really like to trail run, like this is something I love to do. I got into the trail team. You know they don't really understand it, like they're athletes, like they get it. And then what actually changed my mom a little bit not changed her from, but like made her understand it more was she went to Broken Air with me the year I got 10th and she just saw how big of a deal it was and like how exciting it was and she always talks about that being her favorite weekend ever. She wants to go back every year. Um, but she just really saw like, wow, trail running is a big thing.
Speaker 2:It's not just like this little like hobby my daughter has, you know she can do it well too and they they've always been so supportive.
Speaker 2:I mean, they've been the ones who put me into ski racing, put me into running and supporting me when I was a kid and like I think so when it kind of came out this is what I want to do.
Speaker 2:And when I got that first call from Solomon, it was just like, you know, being super proud of me but like knowing that I could do it, um, and then they've been super supportive in all of this, like with the Solomon stuff, but then also getting this weird stuff going on with my stomach, like the one thing my dad says is just like, forget all of the you know whatever sponsors, the you know whatever sponsors whatever.
Speaker 2:Forget it, like just remember who you are, like just go show them, like he always says, just go win, and stuff like that. Um, and so, you know, I think it's definitely confusing at times, cause it's like my job is running, but like um, and they come in a world of like being intense lawyers. My dad's a real estate agent, but they, they see that I work really hard, they see they get firsthand experience of you know, it's not just like a hobby. I'm training all the time, um, and so they're very supportive and I'm really grateful that they, I have them by my side, cause it just would not be possible without that support as a kid to follow your dreams. You know, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely Like without having it, like I don't know. I always wonder that, like without having a parent to tell you to pursue these things, or it's okay to pursue these things. No, you know go pursue this Like it's definitely makes a huge difference and helps pave the way for you know success, which is pretty cool. Oh yeah, are you a big music person? Like what's the? What's the walkout song before Broken Arrow? Like what, what do you? What do you? What kind of tunes are you bumping?
Speaker 2:I gotta think I this is again so cliche because everyone's like I listen to everything, but like I really do. Um, this is so classic too, like going to UVM, obviously, like I've forever been a huge Noah Khan fan, like number one artist for sure, but that's not really a good like walk out. You know, folk music isn't really the, so I would, I don't know, I like that like, I like some good rap. I like you know, hype music is always really into like chill edm recently, kind of like avicii.
Speaker 2:I would say it's kind of something that man all right like that kind of edm is what I would put in my like playlist if I were. You know, have music the whole time or something, um, so yeah, kind of the cliche, oh, everything but yeah oh dude, I love avicii rip I know it's so sad every time.
Speaker 2:Well, in my gym too, I go to this gym class sometimes, and when there's other people there they'll be like what music people want, and I always like, I'm always like avicii, avicii, whatever. But then and we always just end up talking about how sad it is, that like I'll never get to see him in concert and like he's just oh, and that new, that new documentary on him was just such a I know, but yeah, the impact he had that was crazy.
Speaker 1:Like what a talented dude uh yeah, it's crazy. Do you listen to music during workouts at all? I'm a big podcast listener.
Speaker 2:I really don't like listening to music. Um, no, because I get in my head a lot, especially like workouts and stuff, because with music you you can tell how long you've been going right, so it's easy to be like I've only had one song right now. You know where I love pod, like I'm huge podcast listener because it just feels like if you're alone, like you have someone next to you telling you stories and like just all sorts of podcasts like crime podcasts but or people just like pop culture and, um, I really just love like it's like listening to stories and like listening to someone there and like learning things. And I think it just and it feels more like authentic, to still feeling like I'm connecting to the nature. You know like it's I'm one air pod in and still listening, but it's not just like blasting music in my ear. It's like I can still hear what's around me, but you know there's also maybe a story going on in the other ear.
Speaker 1:So Wow story going on in the other year. So, wow, that's impressive. Like I, I don't, like I couldn't even be able to focus. That's amazing. What's your, what's your favorite podcast?
Speaker 2:I think there's so many. Um, you know it's funny because one that I got recently, well from last year, from steph, who was my previous manager, solomon the first night I met her at broken arrow, she and I talked about how she loves this podcast, tooth and Claw, and it's this like these two guys, or these three guys who are like bear scientists, like researching bear behavior and all of that, and they just tell these stories about animal attacks, which now I think about it, like sometimes maybe not the best thing to listen to while I'm running.
Speaker 2:But they have good stories about, like you know, animals I would never encounter and they, like you know, go through the science of it and the sustainability of it. And you know you can learn a lot and I like, when I feel like I can like listen, but also, you know, people are funny but also I can like learn, especially environmentally related. I was environmental studies major, so I really like anything connecting to that.
Speaker 1:Very cool. I worked as an environmental scientist for a little bit. I hated it. I worked in Florida, though it was wetland stuff, but anyway, I feel like if I was in another state it would have been way more fun.
Speaker 2:Long story short. You could find your niche for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:No doubt that's super cool. Do you plan ever eventually to work in the environmental sciences or go back for another degree for it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would absolutely love to. I think my dream is, you know, to have a part-time, like, remote job in the environmental field while I'm continuing to run for however long I do that, and ski like, or full-time, you know, whatever works. But yeah, I mean I love. My dream is to use my platform as an athlete to somehow encourage or create some sort of I don't know, I don't want to say business, but something to help just in like, the environmentalism of like and sustainability of running and recreating in mountainous regions. I think that's something that's incredibly important in like.
Speaker 2:How can we, as professional athletes, encourage stewardship in places like Jackson or like Tahoe when there's 900 people in the starting line? How can we? Yeah, this idea of sustainable tourism? I think we have a big role already, having the platform and people who are interested in that community that you create. But yeah, there's just so much that I think we can be doing better too as recreationists who care about the environment and want to continue to do this forever. So I would love to. I'm not sure exactly what that looks like, but things are changing a lot and I feel like more companies are opening up their fields for stuff like that.
Speaker 1:So that's true, that's true, All right. Last question what is the? What's your bucket list race? I mean, you're kind of going to mine the short series and all I'm so jealous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it's definitely. I mean, I'm like definitely really excited for Sierra's and all, but I'm trying to think it's funny, because I feel like it changes every year, because then I'll be like I got to go do that or you know, this year it's all of a sudden I'm like my new bucket list is to run to the highest peak, you know, in the Swiss Alps and I'm getting to do that. But man, I don't know. I've never thought about this. There's so many different ones. I feel like, and I've been so lucky to get to do pretty much. I have like one on my list and I get to go do it, and that's pretty cool. Um, hmm, wow, I'm really trying to think I feel like sierra's and all was kind of it for a while and now that's happening.
Speaker 1:I'm like pretty excited for that you know what the funny thing is about this. So I I was thinking about this the other day and like having this conversation with my wife and, like you know, I create like this idea of like this bucket list race or like even just like we race in like beautiful places, right yo, I never like look around yeah, like this was when I first started racing.
Speaker 1:Like I was in a race, like my wife did a race with me when I this is like years and years. It's like five years ago.
Speaker 1:There's some race and tell your ride and like we do this beautiful loop and I I go and win the race and she's like did you see this, did you see that, did you see this? And I'm like, no, I was, yeah, no, down the entire time I didn't see anything. And like that's like, I think that's one of the reasons I think I like cycling so much, or like mountain biking or gravel biking is like.
Speaker 2:I actually take the time now to like look around and yeah like, like kind of soak in these beautiful places I know, I'm hoping that, because the races I'm doing in switzerland are like 7 000 feet and up, like maybe I'll maybe look around a little bit around, yeah, usually you're in the pain cave so much that you're just like where, where's the finish, um, but I think that's what's special, like if you can give yourself enough time to be out in those areas and kind of do a little bit of exploring pre and post and like getting to appreciate that, and that can be really cool. But yeah, you definitely like it's interesting to think about. Yeah, I mean, I probably won't even remember half of it when you're out there, when you're just like so zoned in. I guess the same thing happens for bears, like I've been.
Speaker 2:I've been on so many runs, so many times at the hill climb here, and people have been like did you guys see the bears? And I'm like, no, I can't tell you how many bears I've passed in my life, like hundreds probably. And I just, yeah, you just you just kind of put your head down and like you're chatting with someone and you just they blend in. You know, they're not often, I'm aware, but they're not often like right on the trail and I feel like when you're running you're just kind of like yo I I.
Speaker 1:I was so funny when I went to like, so I went to go. Obviously I told you this I went to go to Grand Targhee to go race that race. So I'm like Googling, like are there? Are there grizzly bear? Like I'm bringing bear spray with me in my belt looking around, I'm such a Coloradan because we have black bears. That's a big raccoon. I'm scared to death of grizzly bears, yeah.
Speaker 2:I am too, though, if that helps, I carry bear spray when I get around at Targhee. I think I'm the most cautious of all. My trail runner friends in Jackson and Idaho, like most of them, will not carry bear spray. They'll go on like the Teton Crest Trail and not carry bear spray. And I'm like I go to the resort and if I'm alone usually if I'm with another person I'm like whatever, but if I'm alone I just I'm like why not? You know, like I don't want to be that person. I mean like from this podcast I'm listening to the number one thing they always ends up being the solution is like having bear spray. Um, and it's just like it's added weight, it's just fitness, free fitness.
Speaker 1:at that point, that's true, your guy get attacked. Last year was it last year maybe? It was like on the other side, yeah, and like a very like like public area, right, yeah very, I mean that kind of changed.
Speaker 2:I feel like a lot of how we go about, at least for me, like I think a lot of us started carrying bear spray more and being more cognizant of it, because he I mean, he was off trail but like near Jackson Lake and he had bear spray right, he just didn't have time, like it did save him because the bear bit into the can but, um, they're out, like the bears are I think there's a lot of environmental reasons for this too but being pushed a little bit more downwards and into just more human areas and they're just kind of, you know, they humans, they're not like scared of humans anymore, they are like get out of my way, like we're here, um, oh, wow. So I think it's just the more, the more prepared you are, the better, and sometimes I'll like play podcasts out loud, because then it's like another person talking. So smart.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's very smart. Yeah, it's just weird like I wouldn't think about like inbounds, like a ski area like, but I guess it's. I mean it's all open, it's not like there's a fence so they could be hanging out. No, they definitely could.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've definitely seen them jackson hole for sure. But there's usually a lot of noise going around and my like under like, my feeling of safety is kind of like if something were to happen would there be people around, and usually there are so many people around on these mountains, so not too much to worry about there. But yeah, it's always good to be safe. I feel like better safe than sorry.
Speaker 1:That's true, that was so true. Well, listen, andy Cornish, I'm a fan. I was so happy we did this podcast. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on Wishing you the best of luck at Broken Arrow and your whole season, and we'll talk more about pikes after.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it. Thank you, listen up, guys. The Steep Stuff podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA. Guys, I am so excited UD just dropped their new race vest six liter, and ultra vest, 12 liter, in two beautiful aesthetic colors. You guys got to check these new vests out. They're dynamic in ways like that you just have never seen from an Ultimate Direction vest Very stretchy, lots of storage, beautiful aesthetic colorways. Coming to you in a new white and blue and an onyx and green Just absolutely beautiful vests. I think these ones are just like some of the best products we've ever dropped and I'm so excited for you guys to try them out. Hop on ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod Again that's steep stuff pod for 25% off your new vest. I mean, they're already affordably priced, but 25% off is just going to make it so much more affordable for folks in an already increasingly expensive trail running environment. So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a pack or any hydration solution and let me know what you guys think.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode. Want to thank Andy so much for coming on the podcast. It was an amazing episode and definitely wishing her the best of luck as she takes on some amazing races this upcoming summer. Yeah, guys, so before we get going, if you could, the best way to support Andy is to give her a follow on Instagram. You can find her at Andy Cornish. That's A-N-D-I-E-C-O-R-N-I-S-H. Give her a follow, send her some messages, let her know what you guys thought about the episode and send her some words of encouragement, as she has a stacked season she's going to be taking on.
Speaker 1:One more thing before we get going, just some housekeeping stuff. If you guys enjoyed this episode, the best way to support the Steep Stuff Podcast is to give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would be amazing. And if you guys are interested in a new pack or any type of hydration solution, get yourself 25% off your cart at ultimatedirectioncom by using code Steep steep stuff pod.
Speaker 1:I've got a whole bunch of information and episodes coming out for you guys, including some interviews with the US mountain running champions from the centipede scramble last week, as well as some of the runners up and pretty much all seven of the folks that got that punch their tickets the world. So lots of cool interviews coming down the pipeline and keep an eye out, because we're going to be dropping a bunch of stuff for Broken Arrow in the coming weeks as well. I can't believe it's already Broken Arrow week and, yeah, I need a vacation after this. Guys, enjoy it. Have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much. Thank you. We'll see you next time.
