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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Allie McLaughlin - Post Sunapee Scramble Interview
Ever wonder what goes through an elite athlete's mind when injury threatens to derail everything they've trained for? In this captivating conversation with mountain running legend Allie Mack, we discover how the most challenging moments often lead to unexpected triumphs.
Fresh off qualifying for her eighth USA Mountain Running Team at the Sunapee Scramble, Allie reveals she almost didn't make it to the starting line. Battling hip pain that left her in tears the night before, she made a last-minute decision to race - then proceeded to lead almost wire-to-wire on a brutally technical course featuring thigh-high water crossings, slick mud, and massive rocks.
What's remarkable isn't just the physical performance but the mental approach that made it possible. Rather than pressuring herself, Allie reframed the race as "just a nine-mile run" - her favorite distance on any given day. This shift in perspective allowed her to find joy in the moment and perform with rare freedom.
At 34, Allie dismisses any notion that she's past her prime. "I think I'm as fast as I was in 2014," she reflects, "but now with added knowledge and strength." Drawing inspiration from veterans like Joe Gray and Max King, she's convinced her best performances may still lie ahead as she targets the vertical team qualification at Broken Arrow.
The conversation turns to what might be America's strongest-ever women's mountain running squad, with Allie eager to build deeper team bonds before Worlds. Her insights on balancing individual competition with national pride offer a fascinating glimpse into elite sports psychology.
Ready to be inspired by an athlete who continues to redefine what's possible? Join us for this heartfelt, candid conversation about perseverance, perspective, and finding joy in the journey.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lariello, bringing you an episode today with none other than Allie Mack, super excited to get to catch up with Allie just after her third place finish at the Sunapee Scramble last week. We talked about what it meant for Allie, a former world title holder, to be able to go back and compete at Worlds again for her eighth team. We talked about the Stoke level going into Broken Arrow. We talked a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1:Ali almost didn't race this race after dealing with some health and injury stuff and the fact that she showed up on the start line and gave us an absolute show, running within herself but basically running at the front of the race almost the entire race. Yeah, ali is one of my favorite people in the sport. It was super fun to get to chat with her and just catch up and kind of see where things are going, and it's going to be a really exciting season. So, guys, without further ado, I hope you enjoy this one, miss Ali Mack. Ali Mack, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:Hey, it's going great. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing amazing. I'm so happy to have you back on. It's always good to catch up and chat. You're like one of my favorite people in the sport, so it's always fun to see how you're doing. Obviously, you must be riding high right now, after qualifying for Team USA A couple about a week removed now, last week at Sunapee. So how are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling really good. It's really special, really special. I'm feeling really good. It's really special, really special. You know I've been.
Speaker 2:How I describe it is this will be my eighth team since 2014. And you know, I used to look at Joe Gray like years ago, even just how he would have this huge number of teams and and I always thought it was cool. But I was like always wondered if it just like kind of lost its attraction, like was it easy for him? Um, because he just like made all these teams and um, I'm just tapping into that, having been on eight teams, and I just want to say like it gets more special each time, um, and I didn't expect that feeling, but I think it's really the direction our sport is going. It just is getting deeper and deeper and, um, it makes it all the more special to make a team.
Speaker 2:And so I mean I had confidence going um into this season, like maybe the last couple months. I think I winter was kind of hard, um, just yeah, I don't know, I just um wasn't quite there with the mindset and it came back pretty nicely and had a great spring, but um, going into the race, yeah, there were a few issues I was having um health-wise the week before. But other than that, like I felt confident, but still it was like having made the team um feels more special than I could have anticipated yeah, I knew it was gonna happen.
Speaker 1:I was, I saw you. I saw you like I think I saw. When did we run into each other at the gym?
Speaker 2:was about it was like a week and a half before the race. Yes, I remember and I was on the Stairmaster and I'm like hunched over, dying, which I don't go that hard, I don't know, I was just like extra tired that day. But yes, um, yeah, I look like I was pushing my limits.
Speaker 1:I was astonished, Allie. I was like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:I was like, as soon as I went back to that, I was like Allie, allie's not only a qual, like I really thought you were going to and you damn well almost won the race. Like I was really really impressed. Um, it's funny, sean. Uh, it was the PT shout out to Sean Rimmer. Uh, he'll probably listen to this, but he looked, he like taps on my shoulder and I like over, cause I'm like I thought you were running on the treadmill for a second. I look over and then I realized it's a Stairmaster and I was like yo, that's impressive. I was like I don't think I can hold that. That was crazy. So yeah, I'm not going to say I predicted it, but I kind of had a feeling after watching that workout, so yeah, oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:Amazing to follow along. So all right, let's talk after the race got to follow along. We had eyes on you guys the whole time. Most of the time, I should say. You raced it pretty aggressively. You went out like you were in typical Allie fashion and you led the race almost wire to wire. How did you feel? Were you comfortable? The whole time? You didn't look like you were pushing too crazy. You looked like you were within yourself. Maybe talk about how the race unfolded for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited to talk about the race because it was a fun one for me and I can't say that about many races the last couple of years. I could probably mention a couple. Moab last year went pretty awesome. Moab's always a special place for me and I feel good and stuff. But, um, I don't know, the last couple of years has kind of been unpredictable for me. I can have great training and then just not feel myself in races and um, and so it's nice to have like that little winter break and kind of start fresh. Um, but yeah, I felt great and I didn't have.
Speaker 2:I kind of just ran like I'd like to run and um, yeah, it looked like I went out aggressive but I I felt so calm, um, and I think part of it was having, yeah, I had hip pain before the race and wasn't a hundred percent sure if I should race and kind of just that mind distraction, even though it was very stressful. Um, in another way, I wasn't thinking about the like particular things before race. Like you know, you think about like what you're eating and like how you're like warming up and all that stuff, and that stuff was just not even a factor. It was just so focused on my hip and I was just so upset over it and um, and yeah, and so, like the night before I had a few drinks and it was just really casual. I wasn't cause I wasn't like fully sure I was racing. And then even the next morning I did not feel like I wanted to race on it, but but I wanted to go for a run, like hip pain aside, like just everything inside of me just needed a run. And um, and so, as the morning progressed and we got there and warmed up, like especially uphill, I noticed the um, my hip didn't hurt too bad. And so, yeah, then it just kind of turned into like, yay, I get to go run, like I'm, I'm just, it's a, it's a, you know, it's not like an ultra, I'm like nine miles, like that's my favorite kind of run any day of the week. And so, um, that's kind of what the mindset I had that morning and I mean I was scared I might have to drop if my hip got bad, but other than that it was like at the end of the day I'm gonna get a nine mile run in and that's what I love to do.
Speaker 2:And so we went out and um, yeah, I just like I felt really controlled. I kind of was wondering like I wasn't surprised I was leading, but I kind of was. I was like this feels easy right now, um. And so I'm like this feels easy right now, um, and so I'm like happy with how cause sometimes I do go out really hard and ruin the race but yeah, I stayed calm and I, um, having Lauren and Anna there like the whole time was like normally that stresses me, but it was, it was fun, it was comforting and um, and we kind of like Anna definitely caught us and then passed us and so like we weren't as together, but Lauren and I were pretty together most of the race. We we only talked like, exchanged a few words, but it was just um, it was fun. And uh, yeah, I don't know if you have any specific questions at the different spots, I really liked the first loop and again, I thought I knew the course from two years ago, but then I realized a week before that it was going to have the technical part and I also didn't realize the second loop was longer and so it was kind of like when we're in there, I'm like this is not ending and there was.
Speaker 2:It was kind of like when we're in there, I'm like this is not ending.
Speaker 2:And there was one time I kind of slipped and uh, um, lauren was behind me and I was just like Lauren, this is so fun to run together, but this is also ridiculous.
Speaker 2:This is like so muddy, so rocky, um yeah, and so we kind of laughed but, um, yeah, and then I was cautious on the downhill a little bit, just with, um, my hip, but at the same time I think we rock and rolled it and um, again, it was great to have Lauren pull me along and have someone to um kind of uh kind of gauge, um my speed after um I was in the lead on the first downhill. Uh kind of gauge, um my speed after um I was in the lead on the first downhill. Uh, why Lauren passed me and then I passed her before we came through. But, uh, I remember thinking, even though I was in the lead on the first part of the downhill, I was just like pretending I wasn't, cause I definitely need to push the downhills, and so I was like this is where you catch her. I was just like making up someone in the distance and yeah, and so I'm definitely tried to pick it up, and then Lauren was right there, which was really helpful.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I have so many questions off this, I gotta say so, like that's that's. I mean the way you describe it is actually a little bit different than like what we, because we only had cameras on you guys in certain areas. We had cameras going up the like we with cameras. Obviously, when you guys came back around after the first lap, we had cameras on the glades and we had cameras on um, the second really technical climb on the or the aspect of the second climb where I, from what anna described and the way you described, I guess that's where anna made a move. That's kind of what it seemed like. Were you, did you pursue, did you chase, or were you just like I kind of know that I'm on the team, like I mean there was really other than you and lauren.
Speaker 2:You guys were kind of alone, the three yeah, I definitely didn't think that like, uh it uh. I remember she passed us and it was amazing to watch her because I felt like you could only go so fast in that section. Like there was water that was like almost half high and then sinking mud and then you're going over rocks like half my size and so and I like that stuff, but it just felt hard to move too quickly. And then when she did pass us, she took off and I'm like dang, like I just don't, I don't know Like I don't know how she did it, but it was really inspiring and I didn't overthink it, though I was like I just I can't move that fast right now and I'm just going to keep doing me, and Lauren stayed with me, and so, like I'm just gonna keep doing me and and Lauren stayed with me, and so like that kind of like made sense to me.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I don't know it didn't freak me out, so I was like okay, and then I had no idea where anyone else was, but again, I felt like we were moving at a good clip and it, yeah, I just um, I didn't feel pressured to chase her and yes, making the team was like the huge goal. So if someone had come up behind that would have been terrible. But I stayed calm and kind of yeah, I wasn't as concerned about winning. I guess Like maybe if I was I would have tried to chase harder, but something in me was really comfortable and just wanted to kind of keep doing my thing and not blow up and or get injured.
Speaker 1:Well, you did absolutely amazing. It was so much fun to follow. I got to ask you about the. So the course was stupid hard. I felt like everybody was slipping and sliding. We were watching people falling Like it was. It was ridiculous, did you? I know you said you kind of slipped that one time. Did you have any, any big, any big spills, or were you good?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that one was like.
Speaker 2:It was just like, it was like slow motion, you know, like you're going over these rocks and just kind of like slid down one.
Speaker 2:But um, no, on the very last downhill, where it was still um ski, hill, grassy mud, I clipped a toe in Superman and Lauren was like probably like 10 feet ahead of me and yeah, it's like the last mile and of course I'm like trying to chase her, but I know her talent and skill and I didn't feel like I I didn't want to say like I don't think I could have caught her, but I also, yeah, I don't think I totally had that capability, so I wasn't going to, I don't know, just go above my means in that moment and I just stick with her. And then someone yelled we had some space. So I was like, okay, all right if I just secure third had some space. So it was like, okay, all right If I just secure third. And so, but anyways, but I am, I'm trying to like still move really fast, just to like keep within reach of her and um, yeah, I just like super man it, but you pop up fast on that terrain.
Speaker 1:Uh, it hurt a little, but, um, that was probably my biggest one. Oh man, that's crazy. Well, but I but of course no-transcript again like I was like damn, like this is such a fun sport to see, like get to, like talk to you guys after you just did this incredible accomplishment and accomplish this major feat. So yeah, pretty, pretty, it was very special, very special day oh, I love hearing that Like we feel the same.
Speaker 2:For sure it's cool stuff.
Speaker 1:How does it? It's so interesting to me because, like you said, you were pretty candid and open about it. You were like, you know there was a possibility you might have not started this race, like you almost didn't do it. But now that you did do it, does the pressure feel a little more off for broken arrow or are you keeping the?
Speaker 2:pressure on as far as because, like, you've got a damn good shot at making the vertical team too. Like, what, what's your thought process there? Yeah, that's, it's very interesting. It's like I'm a head case and so it goes. Um, it changes every day and that was the thing it was like if I didn't race, it's like okay, well then we put all into broken arrow and um, and I was excited about that. But it also put a lot of pressure on for myself.
Speaker 2:Um, and I remember just like, yes, I was on the hotel floor just crying like being a baby, and um, and Dylan, my fiance, was like, well, you like the vertical the best anyways. Like, if you don't do, you still have a chance for that. And I remember just saying like, no, I love the classic so much, like I want to make, like it would mean more to make this team. And then, and I did it, and so happy and stuff. But then immediately my mind shifts. I'm like, wait, the vertical is my favorite.
Speaker 2:Immediately my mind shifts, I'm like, wait, the vertical is my favorite. And so it's like it really didn't take. I was like it didn't take any um pressure or wishes off from Broken Arrow, but um, but yeah, it did a little bit. It won't be like as big of a heartbreak if I don't make it. I still am on a world's team, um, which is the ultimate goal and to be there. But yeah, I definitely want the vertical too. I think it's going to be even more difficult, if not as difficult, but yeah, I do love the vertical. So yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 1:I know you're hard on yourself, because most of the athletes at the highest caliber are. I think we wouldn't be I should say you wouldn't be and you're Joe Gray's the world. I don't think you would be where you're at if it wasn't for being Obviously your biggest credit being hard on yourself. But you've accomplished so much in this sport and you're only accomplishing more. You started thinking about like legacy and like where that lies, and like your thoughts on like your just a career in general, just because, like you've, you're already a world champion you've made. Is this your eighth or ninth team? Did you say this is?
Speaker 2:your eighth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is your eighth team so, like you've already, you're already one of the greatest female mountain runners ever. I don't know like I don't know if you ever think about that, but that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:How does that?
Speaker 1:reconcile with. It. Isn't that wild to think about. You have a chance to continue to paint a beautiful legacy in the sport.
Speaker 2:How do you think about that? I really appreciate people like you saying that and reminding me of that, because I definitely don't feel it. It's very every year's like its own to me and um, and yeah, if I have a tough year, I just feel like I don't have it anymore and if I have a good year, it's really special or a good race. Um, however, I think uh, I had some thoughts on that, I kind of lost it, but um, but yeah, I think it's cool to like just know, like what has been done and then watch the.
Speaker 2:I guess that's what I'm saying. I feel like I'm getting old and and then I'm like I don't know, because people have been kind of putting that in my ear, talking about legacy and and they're like how I've done it, and then it makes me feel old and like it's like a shock, I'm still doing the shorter stuff, but they're always saying it in a positive light, which is like really awesome, but it kind of like then it makes me think I'm like, oh damn, I might not have as much time in the shorter distances or whatever, but um, but then I'm like, no, I, I'll be 35 at the end of this year and and Joe's a great example.
Speaker 2:There's so many people, but the 35 is still really young, um so much time yeah, and so I'm like not that I had ever used that as an excuse, but maybe that's why it also felt special to um make the team. I feel like I'm on the older end but at the same time, I just I think I I think I'm as fast as I was in 2014, or I have the capability, but and plus plus the knowledge and the strength and so much more. So, if I can just like kind of combine everything, all the knowledge and stuff, and still have that speed. And you know, like someone like Max King actually, zach Miller was talking to me the other day just about how impressive it is that I'm still making the classic teams, like 11 years later from when he and I first made the one in 2014 and um, and he quoted Max King saying like if you, if you keep doing the speed and the shorter stuff, you're not going to lose it. It's when you do like fully move on from it. And I think, just with social media now, and you know, I see people who are running ultras, doing kind of speed work or shorter distance stuff, and you know, I always think they don't have that. But I think we're all like learning from each other that, yeah, it's capable to, we're capable of staying fast and um, yeah, so I need to get that out of my head because I'm definitely not old Um, and yeah, I think there was.
Speaker 2:I will say I mean, I think winning worlds was so, so, so special.
Speaker 2:And I had that golden trail week the week before and that was just such a fun week where I didn't expect much from myself. Really I don't want to say expect much, but I did not expect to win. And I think sometimes I do go in the mindset thinking I should win, and that's when I don't do as well. And I remember those weeks specifically of having no expectations of winning and just running because I love it and it worked really well and so. But I think after that there was a level of pressure that I should be winning everything, but also a contradicting thing that was like, oh, I did it, like I didn't, I don't, I didn't maybe have as much drive because, yeah, because, like I accomplished something big and it was, I thought the rest would come easy and so like, yeah, there was a weird dynamic going on there in 2023 and then kind of maybe blood into 2024. But I feel like I'm starting fresh again and uh, just running because I love it I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. You know what? Not to? Not to change the subject too hard, but, like yo, we're sending a squad this year yes, we are squad, like the euros, should be terrified at the team that we're sending, like you got and especially like I think both, like I'm sure whoever like makes the vertical team as well, but like yo, that mountain classic team.
Speaker 2:Good luck beating you guys like it's just I love it so much and I think, um, yeah, like everyone on the team has you know, they do um, we all do golden trail a fair amount, and so we raised a lot of those same shorter distance girls and like we're a big chunk of the golden trail series races, um, that do really well, and so I don't know what my point is there, but I just think that's like that just shows something in itself. And, uh, in going on with that team again, it's um, and in going on with that team again, it's like such, so motivating, because even though we're competing against each other, that's like more competition for each of us in that same race. But I don't know, I like it. It's like we're going to pull each other along, and I've never really I don't like I train with friends in in Colorado Springs and then, if we're on the road, I'll meet up with people occasionally, but it's mostly.
Speaker 2:But I do do a lot alone and this is like probably the first time that like I haven't told the girls this, but I'm like I don't know, it'd be really fun to meet up times before. I mean, we'll see each other at other races, but I'm like we should do just like a little weekend together. I don't know. I just think, yeah, team bonding, like we don't. All of us train might train differently, so we don't have to like do a run together, but I just want to do more as a team because I think we're it's a good group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you should. I think that's a really good idea, especially like I don't know, like I think we make this. I think the polar shift needs to be made, like on the teams, especially like with us sending people over now, like the, the team should have more camaraderie and more like get together and more like really knowing each other and understanding, like team dynamics, on whose strength, who has strengths and weaknesses, just things like that. Especially there's like you are champion, like you, you have that mindset because you know what it takes to win. So I think there's a lot of experience as well that you could pass on, especially and lauren as well. Like lauren's been around, like she's been on the teams before, um, and obviously grayson, but like there's just so much team experience, um, that I think you guys could probably pass off to anna as well. I like I said I would beat if I was your competitor.
Speaker 2:I'd be freaking terrified, dude yes, I think we have um big potential and um, yeah, you bring up Lauren. Um, I'm really excited to be on the team with her again. We and she was on the team in Thailand, um in 2022, and then she was actually a junior in 2017 when I was on the senior team back then and I don't remember all the dynamics of that year, but I do remember becoming good friends with her and I don't know, I kind of joked because she was a junior. I was like, yeah, I had more fun hanging out with the juniors this year and we kind of connected then because she was from Colorado and, yeah, just kind of. And then she was starting college and kind Colorado and yeah, just kind of. And then she went, she was starting college and kind of followed her career here and there and she'd run summer races and um with Sierra. But now, yeah, now we're um on another team together and just that fun on and off the course.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. I was going to ask you another question. Oh, that's Dylan. So having Dylan there, it must have been really special to have him there and have him get to see you know this, this beautiful finish and everything, especially because he knew so much that, like what, what goes into it, and obviously some you know the fact that you almost didn't even do it, then you go and race. The race like that must have been very special to share it with him special to share it with him absolutely.
Speaker 2:Um, I yeah, just like the whole weekend could have gone in a different direction and um and so, to have like gone through like all the stuff before the race and then getting an ending like that was really special. This is the first time he's seen me qualify for a us team and, uh, but what's even like I don know. What I like even more is this is his will be his second season watching me run and he's learned so much. He knows almost all the people that I'm either friends with or who's in the sport and he just gets it. And so, like last year, I felt like it was a lot of like I don't know me dragging him around. I should never say that he loves it, but, like you know, taught like talking, but he, he picked it up real quick. He follows stuff on Instagram and so he knows what's up.
Speaker 2:And also, he's just so, so calm like through all of this, like debating whether to race. Calm like through all of this, um, like debating whether to race. He would just come up with options. Um, like he's like we can. We can stay in Boston, not even go and fly home, or we can go and you can warm up and see how you feel, and he just lays out the options for me when I can't think for myself.
Speaker 2:And um, and it's just supportive either way and and you know, it was like I when I go through injuries, like what it does to me, and so, yeah, I just um was just, I have always been kind of independent and uh, and yeah, I think I can do everything myself and I just think, if I had been at that race alone, granted, I have like all the support of the community, but it's, it's not the same. And so I just I I don't put too much thought into this, but I was like I can't imagine having been there without him, um, just getting through the whole thought process and then getting to enjoy the um, the outcome with him the um, the outcome with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. All right, ali, I think, um, I think we're good on this one. I want to say congratulations again. I'm so happy for you and I cannot wait to go, follow along obviously broken arrow in the next couple weeks and then you know just your journey throughout the summer and then on the world. It's like I am like I said, I'm terrified for whoever has to race you guys. So it's uh, it's gonna be so much fun to follow along and I hope it's an amazing summer for you and congratulations.
Speaker 2:Like so much. You're such a hard worker.
Speaker 1:Good to see you make another team.
Speaker 2:Yay, thank you.
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