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Cade Michael - Pre Broken Arrow 46K Interview
Imagine grinding uphill at a 30% gradient during the Broken Arrow 46K, your heart hammering against your ribs, legs burning with each step. Now imagine doing it twice—because that's exactly what awaits the elite athletes competing for spots on Team USA this weekend in Olympic Valley.
Trail running standout Cade Michael joins us fresh off impressive performances at Canyons 50K and GoPro Games to share his mindset heading into what might be the most significant race of his career. With candid humor and thoughtful insight, Cade reveals the dramatic details of his Canyons 50K finish, where he experienced "full body seizes" yet refused to DNF, and the surprising nutritional discovery that might have been holding him back for years.
The Boulder-based runner offers a fascinating glimpse into his training environment, where running alongside some of the world's best trail athletes has both humanized these elite performers and boosted his own confidence. His race strategy for Broken Arrow draws inspiration from French pointillist painting—approaching each segment as its own focused effort while maintaining perspective of the complete picture.
Most compelling is Cade's deeply personal motivation: the childhood dream of representing Team USA. As a self-described "Olympics junkie" who would wake at 2 AM to watch events during the 2008 Beijing Games, the opportunity to don the stars and stripes represents the fulfillment of a long-held aspiration. With the trail running world converging on Palisades Tahoe for this selection race, we get an insider's perspective on what it means to chase this dream across 28 miles and 8,000 feet of vertical gain.
Whether you're following the Broken Arrow race this weekend or looking for insights into elite trail running preparation, this conversation captures both the physical and mental elements that define ultrarunning at its highest level. Subscribe now for more in-depth conversations with the sport's most compelling athletes.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello. We're going to do another pre-Broken Arrow episode, this one regarding the 46k, with none other than Kid Dynamite, mr Cade Michael, super fun getting to catch up with Cade. It's been a little bit since we had our last conversation earlier I think later, actually back in 2024. So super fun to get to catch up with him. Since then, cade's had some insane finishes, both at the canyons 50k as well as racing the 20k at GoPro Games just a week and a half ago. Like I said, super fun getting to catch up with Cade, see where his mindset's at. I'm sure the confidence is extremely high going into this race and it's going to be fun to see him have just an insane performance. So, wishing him the best of luck and I hope you guys enjoy this pre-race episode. So, without further ado, none other than Mr Cade Michael. Cade Michael, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, buddy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, stoked to be back, man. Long time no see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I'm stoked to be chatting Broken Arrow with you. I can't believe we're only a few days out from from the big dance, the 46 K, and just like what a weekend man you're. You're there right now. How, how are the vibes?
Speaker 2:Uh great, you know, we got plenty of construction going on, um, so I get some nice, some nice background music throughout the day. But yeah, it's been pretty sweet. I wasn't sure when I was going to come out, and then a friend, charlie, decided that he wanted to come out on Monday and so we saddled up the car, saddled up the speed and made the drive out from Boulder. So I had some fun stops along the way and I took the Australian on his great West American road trip. So the vibes have been good.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love to hear it dude, are you doing? Did you do your own private place?
Speaker 2:or are you doing the elite housing? No, I think my application was a little late on that and I wasn't sure what work situation was going to look like at the time. So just in a hotel room here in Olympic Valley for a couple of days and then actually my family's going to get to come out this year. So we're staying in Truckee for the rest of the week.
Speaker 1:Oh, super cool man. Yeah, it is such a special place. I know you've been out there before, but like I don't know just the vibe in Palisades, especially with this weekend it being, you know just what's at stake with both the you know the VK, the 23 K and the 46 K. It's just like I feel like more eyes are on this race than than ever before. Would you agree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, palisades is, um, I mean, you come here and it's so striking too, right Like it's. It's um, I guess it is the Palisade, but the big rock face is pretty striking when you drive in and it's a pretty unique, um, unique looking valley, particularly for the us. So, yeah, a cool place to be. And then this year I mean it's sort of mecca, right like the. The trail running world really is revolving around, um, this little town in california, for for a couple weeks here with us champs in the vertical. Then we got Golden Trail World Series, then maybe the most competitive 50K ever run on US soil for spots on a team, and then you get to take a breath for two days. And then we got TrailCon, and then you get to take a breath for two days and we got Western States. So you can feel the buzz for sure. Even though we're maybe some of the first people here, there's a handful of people already out checking out the course and you can tell that, um, yeah, there's a buzz. There's a buzz to the air for sure.
Speaker 1:Did you have you played on the course again yet this year, or did you just do a normal, just chill taper?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I mean I I just went out for a session on the course with Charlie earlier today. Um, and yeah, I mean I feel like the broken arrow course changes a little bit every year. Uh, I've heard horror stories of a couple of years ago, when it was just a snow field, the entire Shirley Canyon. So I guess we'll see what it looks like this year, but uh, seems pretty high and dry. So, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:Dude, let's get into. Uh, I want to talk a little bit about, like you know, what you've been up to this year. I, I, what was? I would say, did you really? I would say what the last race you raced was canyons 50k, or did I miss one at gopro?
Speaker 2:boulder, boulder man oh, boulder, boulder the super bowl the super bowl. That's right, that's right, that's right, yeah uh, yeah, I guess the most recent one. The most recent one was gopro, but uh, boulder, boulder before that, and uh, yeah, canyons 50k.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I was I wanted to get into canyons 50k a little bit because, like I, just you put up such such like like a serious, serious fight, like what a race, dude, it was so much fun to follow along. Dude, what happened at the finish line, I heard because I was not there. Did you collapse or something happened at the finish line, like I heard from a couple people. Like you had like some sort of debacle, what went down?
Speaker 2:um, I tried to stick one to uh, eli seth and mad daniels is what happened? And, uh, if you, you come for the, what do they say? If you come? If you come for the bull, expect the horns or something, I don't know. But uh, no, no, I yeah, super fun race. Um, we had like a crew going and we were just chatting it up and having a great time for the first 15 or so miles and then around 24, just the lights went out.
Speaker 2:Man, um, the last, I don't know, 10 K, seven miles. I hiked most of it, which um wasn't fond of for sure, um, and I wasn't sure what it was at the time. I think my immediate reaction was like, um, maybe like hypothermia or something. It was really strange Cause it wasn't a, it wasn't a typical bonk, um, it was, yeah, really like sort of floating in and out of consciousness and having like full body seizes and stuff. So, yeah, the last seven miles was, it was a battle and you know, good guy, nurse Seth ruling, um went, yeah, went, went full ER mode on me and, uh, while he should have been celebrating his win, he was like peeling my, peeling my carcass off the ground at the finish line, cause I uh, yeah, it was just not going to DNF, but it was absolutely.
Speaker 2:Um, if anybody, if anybody, or you remember, 2019 NCAA is when Cooper Teer is like losing consciousness while, uh, waddling to the finish line. That's uh, that's what I felt for for about an hour there towards the end, um, but uh, yeah, not not entirely sure what it was, probably just went too hard and uh, blew, blew up, flew a little too close to the sun, but, um, yeah, it was a super fun race and I got some some testing done after it and hopefully figured some stuff out, and we'll see if we can stick one this weekend.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, I love to hear it, I love to hear the whole thing. First of all, back on that congrats on finishing the damn race. I probably would have dropped out. That's nuts, given the circumstances. Yeah, I got to ask you. You've been training a lot with, Obviously, you and Andy put up just a bonkers time up Gold Hill. You've done. I mean, your training has looked absolutely insane and you've been training with some of the best in the world, especially Seth and them. What has it been like? Has it helped your game? A lot, would you say, Just overall improvement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of strange because in the moment you don't think about that, but I was talking to the charlie who has sort of a third party, um, charlie hamilton, who has sort of a a third party perspective coming from australia and he's like man, it's kind of crazy like we've been running the last two weeks with, you know, seth, who might be having the best, uh, he might be the best ultra runner in the world this year thus far with his results.
Speaker 2:And you know, you're almost you're almost too close in proximity to the game to realize the, the game that, uh, that those guys have at the moment. But, um, yeah, retrospectively or or when you take some perspective and look at it from a bird's eye view, it's certainly that way right and it humanizes the best in the world because you realize the results these kind of guys have. But, um, you know, we're just shooting the breeze and having a good time on a weekly basis and so I think when that becomes humanized and normalized yeah, I guess we'll find out this weekend, I couldn't tell you yet, but I would think that that gives a certain level of confidence on the starting line that there's anyone you can go toe-to-toe with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a great, it's a beautiful answer. It's interesting to me Cause, like it's like I, I feel like and I don't know if you would agree with this, I'm sure you probably would Like I feel like you're you're just about due to pop one off, like I think a lot of people are going to hear your name after this year or maybe after next, like I feel like one of these, one times you're gonna crack it. It's especially with the training you're doing, especially with you know everything you've done so far, which I'm excited to follow along. This race is interesting. The 46k is a little strange this year.
Speaker 1:Like there's a good opportunity, I think, for someone like you, I, for a lot of guys you know, maybe josh, who knows for new guys on the podium, like we know from what I've seen, information wise, I know people keep saying David Sinclair is racing. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think he's racing anything other than the VK or the ascent. So there's an opportunity there. I think Michelino is probably not at the version of Michelino we've seen in previous years coming off of injuries and things like that. Obviously there's a ton of heavy hitters in this race, but I think the normal suspects might not be in that mix. So it's going to be maybe a new group of guys, including yourself, to maybe go get on Team USA or have the race of their life out there. How does that make you feel? Have you thought about something like that? I know, obviously a lot of guys are more focused on themselves, not necessarily focused about the field, but thinking about something like that, where does that put your mind space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I'd like to say that I'm focused on myself or I don't think about that or I don't think about the field. And you know I have that dog in me or whatever, like Joe and Mike, when I get on the starting line. It doesn't matter who's there, I don't know any names and I go for it, but I do like I have an appreciation and a reverence for that. I'd be got be lying if I said I didn't write. Like I'm a huge fan of the sport, like I'm a runner boy and I like looking at these names and I've been following them for a long time. So it's it's, it's an honor and a privilege and really cool to be on the start line with those people.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I haven't thought too much, I guess, about I haven't looked, it's not. I just know that. You know, regardless, it's gonna be a ridiculous field, like you can, you can go down and there's 20 or 30 guys who probably all have a really good shot at making the team um. But that's the dream, right, like you know, growing up a fan of tracking field um, or growing up a fan of the olympics, staying up at till 2 am or whatever to watch beijing, like that. That's the dream, right Is to pull on the stars and stripes and represent team USA and travel overseas, and um, yeah, so I think that it's going to be, you know whether, whether the old guard and, and the people that have proven they have the um, they have the metal to do this kind of thing, or they're not.
Speaker 2:I think it's going to be a sort of a dogfight. Either way, you have, yeah, any list of names. I mean, there's probably 15 guys from Boulder within a five mile radius of where I live who can make the team. Um, and yeah, once you get beyond, the Boulder bubble, which we often like to present, doesn't exist outside of that, but um, it does exist outside of that. So there's going to be a whole lot of people on the starting line and, um, yeah, I have no idea how it's going to go, cause I just remember this race last year being kind of a death March, the last five K or so just unbelievably hard, and I can't imagine coming down that screaming downhill out of Shirley Canyon and having another lap to go. So, uh, yeah, I, I, I think that the two-lap format is a cruel and unusual form of punishment. So, yeah, it'll be a good time.
Speaker 1:Especially coming down that ski hill man, like right off that road and you're probably running. I mean, if you're in the front, what front? Seven guys, front 10 guys. You're running sub five minutes on that. So that's hurting. You're going to be hurting coming off that and then having to go back up. That's going to be rough. On that topic, what's the strategy? I know you don't have to give away any inside baseball, but I just know I kind of said the same thing about Sunapee was usually the first guy, usually the guy leading the first lap isn't necessarily the person winning the race at the end. Especially with Broken Arrow, there's always massive implosions. We've seen plenty of them, including from some of the most experienced guys out there. Is there any strategy you're going to put into that? Maybe hold back a little bit on the first loop and then go for scalps in the second? Everybody races a little bit different, right? So I'm just curious to see how you approach that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe I haven't thought too much about it. I mean, historically I would say that, um, my strength or my strategy would come in even splitting or pressing the second lap and and, um, picking some guys off. Um, then canyons happened and maybe there's a a little less confidence in in closing hard and a little bit more confidence in going out hard. But hopefully I figured some things out there physiologically so I can go back to go back to my strengths, um and then. But then, that being said, I I went to gopro and did the, the 20k, two lapper.
Speaker 2:There is sort of a condensed version of this where you got to come down a ski slope and then run a second lap and, um, I had a really strong second lap there, um, but you know, I wasn't close enough to Mason on the first lap who, um, obviously we saw at Sunapee is in unbelievable shape, but you're too far back, you're not in it. Um, and that's the thing about trail racing is like when people get out of sight, especially in these kind of competitive environments. It's like, at least for me, there is motivation and gusto that comes from pressing and chasing people and running with people. So I'm not sure. So I think, definitely stick my nose in it, but with the. Do you know who George Surratt is?
Speaker 2:No, I donratt is no, I don't the the French, the French pointillist expressionist painter.
Speaker 2:He's famous for his paintings that are like a million little dots, but then, when you look at it from a wide perspective, it looks like one, um, continuous piece of work. Um, anyway, that that being said, I think that you have to approach this race race, looking at each climb on each lap and each descent as its own point and its own endeavor, and put full focus into that exact moment and then also, paradoxically, keeping a perspective of what the entire painting is going to look like and how all of those dots fit together. Perspective of what the entire painting is going to look like and how all of those dots fit together. So I think that you gotta, you gotta, have your nose in it on the first lap, but you also have to realize that it's a four hour race. No matter how hard you go, what the conditions are like, it's going to be a four hour race, or you know something close to that, with 8,000 feet of climbing. So, um, carnage happens one way or another, and it's how you can mitigate that.
Speaker 1:Well, I got how you can mitigate that. Well, I got my clip now for the instagram video that I'm gonna make off this. Thanks, man. That was a beautiful answer and I also think, spot on, I I never really thought about it like that. Like I like the way that you're, you'll break it down kind of into like there's two different ways of approaching it, right, and I think that's a that's a beautiful way of thinking about it. I gotta ask the team usa question First off, what's your expectation for this race?
Speaker 2:In terms of results or experience.
Speaker 1:Results. Where do you want?
Speaker 2:to see yourself on this race. Oh man, I mean, yeah, like I said, the dream is to be on Team USA, but I also think that if you shoot for third, you're not going to get third, you know. So, um, and I had that, I think I had a little bit of that takeaway from GoPro. Games is like um, it was a solid result, but it's a whole lot of fun to win races and uh. So, yeah, I mean, why not? What, what, what's the point? Otherwise, right, Like, I have no pay bonuses for getting on the podium, so I might as well go try to win Um, and yeah, I don't know if that's like my expectation, but that's um, that seems like the most fun way to race it, so why not you?
Speaker 2:know, um sorry, oh, no, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:What would it mean to you to make team usa?
Speaker 2:oh man, like I said everything, like I'm I'm such a olympics junkie, like I remember, 2008 is like my earliest olympics memory and I like, when I was in beijing, I would you know, in west texas and midland I'd wake up for like 2 am to watch I don't know the 400 meter medley and swimming, like an event that I have no interest in. But my, yeah, I'd wake up at all hours of the day and, like each of it was almost holy in its existence because I realized that these are the best of the best in the world, whether it was curling or bmx cycling or the 800 on the track, and and the effort that these people put into refining their craft was amazing. And so I was. I was so invested in every event.
Speaker 2:So ever since then, I'd then go out in the yard and play high jump or long jump or swim a lap in my pool as fast as I could, and the idea was always like I want to represent Team USA, I want to put on the I guess back then the uniforms were red, but now they're blue or whatever the case may be but yeah, just to be on that world stage and to have that representation of your country and your place and to come together in this celebration and this festival almost of all these countries and all these flags and stuff. It's just been, um, yeah, never, never seemed like a possibility until now, but it's always been sort of the dream, I guess.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, that's a great answer, man. I appreciate that. What's the uh, what's the shoe day, or what are we wearing for shoes on the day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, um, um. So I drove, so naturally, I brought like six pairs of shoes. Not sure what I'm going with yet. Um, I got the puma super shoes. Shout out to greg for those. I got my old uh dita super shoe, uh, the gravix speed ultras that have probably 800 miles in them but they're still holding up pretty, pretty nice. I love those. Uh got a uh prototype shoe from a brand that I don't think I'm supposed to talk about. It's pretty nice too. Probably roll with one of those, but I'll probably end up in the Puma. I wore it at a, I wore it at Broken Arrow and I liked it quite a bit. Or not, broken Arrow, gopro, and I liked it quite a bit. So, yeah, something that feels roadie, roadie with a little bit of lug on the bottom.
Speaker 1:Dude talk about. I mean, I've seen Christian obviously wear Alpha Flies, but it was for a VK. Do you have the stability to get away with that? I mean, obviously it's not a super technical course so it can be done. Especially, I think there's a lot of performance opportunities with it.
Speaker 2:Talk about this. Yeah, I mean, they are a trail super shoe but they've got a one millimeter lug on the bottom. You know, um, but they do a pretty good job of um, the um, the way the heel bevel is is it is it cups your heel quite nicely and while the plate, then sort of the plate and the super foam combination, if you hit a rock, strangely it does kind of catapult you one way or another. So, um, you gotta be ready to fly off a cliff at any given moment. Um, the stability actually on on rocks is quite nice because of the way it's sort of a bathtub design and it and it comes around your foot. So the midsole foam actually, um, yeah, actually sort of cradles your foot in a way that makes it relatively stable.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not something I would like I don't know rip down amphitheater trail in Boulder and or something like that. Uh, actually it is because, um, that's what I would end up racing in, but uh, yeah, they're, they're nice and I'm just, um, I don't know, maybe I've gotten softer over the years of working out on the roads and working out on the track, but if I, yeah, like like a super shoe with a plate in it, so it gives me the placebo effect, if nothing else. So yeah, excited to strap them up and get after it.
Speaker 1:Interesting, interesting. Let me ask you this it's looking like it's going to be like a kind of a cold day on set on, like this weekend. It's going to be kind of cooler than years past. Like years past, we've seen videos of dudes dying like super hot. Does that benefit you? You think you'd like that weather better, or?
Speaker 2:would you rather like a super hot day? Yeah, um, historically, I would say that I have been better in the cold than the heat, um, despite being from west texas, um, but then at canyons, I had a terrible time, uh, because I expected it to be hot and then wasn't. I actually hadn't looked at the weather for Saturday yet. So, um, yeah, I will, I will admit that, but I, yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I feel like Colder warm. When you're working up at 25, 30% gradient, going up to the top of Washington peak on the VK climb, like your, your core temp is going to be so high that cooling is going to be important, but maybe that affects nutrition. I'm not sure. Um, I'm also not sure what the weather is like in confron and um in the fall. So that's a good question. I hope it's just most, most most reflective of whatever that looks like, so that we can we can send the best team for that course, absolutely.
Speaker 1:What is nutrition going to be like? What do you? What do you? Uh, dialed in for this weekend. Are you a big liquid guy? Gels what do you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably a combination of gels and liquid. I'll probably put quite a bit of carbs in the liquid because it just encourages me to drink, if nothing else, and then just caffeine gels because I want to be bouncing off the walls and buzzing out there. You know, um, over overstimulation is underrated. Um, and yeah, actually that's one of the things I figured out since canyons is, I had a, I had a salt test, um, and figured out I had historically convinced myself, gaslit myself into thinking I was salt intolerant. So if anybody had known me for the past decade, they would know that I like don't put salt on a lot of my food because I thought that I would swell up. Turns out I'm like in the 0.001% of the population of saltiness in terms of sweating. So I've been knowing, unknowingly sabotaging myself for many years, so hopefully, drink a lot of liquid with a disgusting amount of salt in it as well, something like 2,200 milligrams of salt per liter.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting, dude. You couldn't tell, like, when you would sweat, like, would you like not have sweat on like your shirt, or on like your hat or something like that, like in the summer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, I guess I was just delusional, because when I was at the salt or when I was at the uh the sweat test at the at the lab with my partner, the, the dietitian was like, oh, do you, do you have salt stains? Like, are you? You tend to be salty? Um, just trying to get a feel for it, before we actually hooked it up to the machine, and I was like no, not too bad. And then my and I was like no, not too bad. And then my partner actually was like yeah, that's not true. Like, your shirts are stiff as cardboard as soon as you finish your runs. So, um, yeah, I, I. The evidence is only taken into account if it fits my narrative, you know.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, fair enough. Well, now you know, there you go. Well, listen, cade. I want to thank you so much for your time, buddy. I appreciate it. I'm wishing you the best of luck out there on Saturday. It's going to be so much fun to follow along and, dude, I hope we're having a conversation after this one talking about TMUSA. It would mean a lot. So, like I said, I hope it's an amazing day for you. I hope it's, and we'll be in touch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I really appreciate it. James, thanks for what you're doing for the sport and talk to you soon, man.
Speaker 1:Thanks, buddy, appreciate it. What's up, guys? It's summer and you know what that means. You're going to need a new pack hydration solution, bottle belt, you name it. Guess what? Ultimate Direction's got you covered.
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