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Michelino Sunseri - Pre Broken Arrow 46K Interview
The trail running world buzzes with anticipation as Broken Arrow 46K approaches, and there's no better guest to break down this iconic race than its 2023 champion, Michelino Sunseri. Fresh off a move to Salt Lake City—which he boldly claims has "the best trail running community in the United States"—Michelino brings refreshing honesty about his current fitness and race strategy.
Coming back from winter injury with just five weeks of running in his legs, Sinceri shares why he's approaching this year's race differently: "I'm not going to join the dick measuring contest," he explains, planning instead to leverage his veteran experience against younger, fitter competitors. His candid recounting of a previous race implosion—dropping from second to eighth in the final miles—reveals the hard-earned wisdom behind his current approach.
Beyond race tactics, Michelino dives into the broader conversation about training sustainability in trail running. Questioning the extreme 160-mile weeks some competitors are logging, he contrasts this with Anna Gibson's success using moderate running volume supplemented with cross-training: "I enjoy running, I want to run forever," he reflects, highlighting his philosophy of career longevity over short-term gains.
Perhaps most compelling is Sinceri's discussion of his World Championship team aspirations. Despite fitness concerns, he's already submitted his application, expressing that representing the United States would mean "everything" to him. This conversation captures not just pre-race strategy, but the deeper motivations that drive elite athletes beyond podium finishes and course records.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lariello, bringing you another pre-Broken Arrow interview, this time with none other than probably the most famous trail runner in the world at this moment, mr Michelino Sinceri. Super fun to catch up with Michelino. The 2023 Broken Arrow 46K champion was kind enough to join me on the pod for a quick chat.
Speaker 1:Always love catching up with Mike. Super fun conversation. We talked about it all, just kind of how he can, you know, pull it on experience to be able to have a great race, what this race means to him and what Broken Arrow means to him in general. We talked a little bit about life and kind of where things have been at for the last maybe few months. I know he just kind of moved down to the Salt Lake area and has been kind of living it up down there and enjoying the Wasatch. Just a fun conversation. Mike's a good buddy and someone I genuinely look up to in the sport and enjoy talking to, so it's going to be fun to see how things shake out on race day. I hope he has an amazing race and wishing him the absolute best of luck. So, without further ado, none other than Mr Michelino Senseri, without further ado, none other than Mr Michelino Senseri. Michelino Senseri, the most famous trail runner in the planet right now. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. What's up, buddy?
Speaker 2:Oh man, happy to be back, happy to be here. This is the first podcast I ever did dude, so now it's the. Yeah, may as well make a return right.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I'm so happy to have you back. This is in a positive light. This one is our pre-Broken Arrow 46.
Speaker 2:Everything's always in a positive light, man. It's all about how you look at it.
Speaker 1:It's all good, that's true man. That's true, it's crazy man. We talked. What the hell did we talk? It was before, so it's kind of wild. Here we are um yeah how's the stoke man? So now you're, now you're down, you're in a salt lake city resident, welcome, welcome to town. Um, to that town that it's kind of hoping you'd come to colorado, but hey, you know, know, boulder's filled. I guess Too many people in Boulder, that's fine. How's things?
Speaker 2:going. Man, good dude. Yeah Well, it just got in last night actually, so got everything set up, moved in fully, went to Trader Joe's today. So there's Trader Joe's here. It's actually the closest one to the Tetons, so that's pretty cool. Um, yeah, dude, it's been good. I got a nice little run and we're like about a mile from the base of grandeur. So, like you know what, I can't even know how it was a 4,000 foot climb, 3,000 foot climb, I don't know, I haven't done it, just got here last night. So, uh, you know great training, solid Hills, uh, sick community. I mean, I think I don't want to, I don't want to start any problems, but I think, uh, salt Lake city probably has the best trail running community in the entire United States. Uh, in terms of, uh, you know talent, garrett's here, uh, I think that's all you need Really.
Speaker 1:I'm sure Garrett's so excited to have you. He must be thrilled.
Speaker 2:So literally I'm on the drive down. Yesterday he me like, hey, dude, you want to run at 5 30? He's like no dude, like I'm not even there yet, like I gotta unpack, like I gotta do all these things. It was like rain check. And then he asked me again today if I wanted to run. I was like dude, like let me get my shit together oh, he's so excited I can't wait.
Speaker 2:We got, we got a. We got a big workout planned on thursday, so that'll be fun all right, all right, the stoke is high then, man, congrats.
Speaker 1:I just feel like it's such a good training ground I mean, not that the tetons weren't, but like this is I don't know I feel like the wasatch opens up a lot for you. It's different, you know, you could. You're living a little bit lower in elevation, so I feel like there's some, maybe some different things you can get from that as far as, like you know, power generation and different adaptations. So I think there's a lot of positives there. It should be fun, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree. I think the, the heat training, the big long climbs, the the community, having people to run with more often I mean dude in the Tetons, is like I want to say 85, 90% of my training runs or more. We're pretty much solo, um, which I mean I, I do kind of like that too, I do like just running alone. It is that's enjoyable for me. It's like, you know, meditation time, um, but I mean having, you know, having more friends to run with and you know freaking caleb olson, grant barnett, garrett corcoran, uh, tyler green, uh, I haven't met shit in the woods yet. Mike McGonigal, mike McGonigal, I haven't met him yet.
Speaker 1:But I mean, dude, the community here is huge. Yeah, you got Finn Finn's there, I'm sure you can get to get back on Finn's pod as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, finn's slow dude. He can't keep up. He's just podcasting all day. You can quote me on that. I hope he listens to this. Shots fired, shots fired, oh, shots fired for sure.
Speaker 1:You know I've got some problems with Finn right now. I reached out to him yesterday trying to get a hookup for KJ, trying to get KJ on the pod before Broken Arrow. He's like just DM him. I was like, yeah, just DM him if he follows you.
Speaker 2:He's not going to see that, no way.
Speaker 1:No, no, he doesn't it literally. I got a message back. It's like killian does not follow you. He will not receive this message, motherfucker.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's uh yeah, shout out to finn. Um, all right, dude, let's talk. Broken arrow man. This is a really important race for you, not just before because what the stakes are, but like also because it's kind of like a homecoming, like having grown up in the area. Maybe talk about what that race means to you. The 46k like you've raced it so many times, you've won it, you're a champion, you've been on the podium like you've kind of done everything at that race, so maybe talk about that uh, well, I think like broken air is kind of where trail running really started for me.
Speaker 2:I think that was like that was, for me personally, my big breakthrough. I mean, I got second to hayden in 2019 and it was the one and only time I beat david sinclair out, kicked him the last mile and he's kicked my ass ever, every race since. Uh, but you know, hopefully that'll turn around eventually, um, but no, that's. I mean, I really think that, in terms of west coast trail running and just events in general, like broken arrow is the event you know, like that is it kicks off one of the biggest weeks in trail running in the entire united states. You know, broken arrow. Now we got trail con going the week between broken arrow and western states and then you got the big dance at western states. So it's like broken arrow really just kind of kicks it off and starts it and it's only grown every single year. It becomes every year. It's more competitive. There's, you know, more going on. It's just high energy. It's the closest we have in the United States, in my opinion, to any type of like European UTMB race. You know, like Palisades and Olympic Valley are the chamonix of the united states and that's what broken arrow is. And I think what those guys have done, what brendan, steve hamm and jeff quine, uh, what those guys are bringing to the table and what they've built, is not only important for the community in tahoe but, I think, great for the entire community of ultra running in the entire united states. It's like they're they're kicking ass, dude. I mean it's uh, it's an awesome event.
Speaker 2:I'm, I've, you know, like it's, like you said, I've been. I think this is the fourth, fourth or fifth time now I've raced the 46k like I've done so many laps around that freaking mountain, that hill, like I was, like I've been I've been bugging brendan for a long time too. Like, dude, like come on, make it one. We doing here, like let's do one lap. And every year he, he pokes fun at me and he's like, he's like it's not one lap yet, but I'm working on it. You still coming? Like, yeah, dude, of course I'm still coming. Like how could I not? It's fun, um, but yeah, I love it clearly as you can tell, it's so.
Speaker 1:I mean it's so cool, man, to go back there and and I mean this is a big year, the stakes are high. Man like is the goal? Obviously the goal is to win, going into any of these races. Is it more so to win or is it more so to lock up a place on the world's team?
Speaker 2:uh, dude, to be to be 100, honest, this year, I'm, that's not my goal. I mean I don't. Like I was injured for most of the winter. I only started running again like five or six weeks ago. So, like I have no volume on my legs, I have no fitness, really, like I'm really just going into it hoping for a top 10 right now.
Speaker 2:Um, I know, I know for a fact, like, um, I'm, I'm more of a you know, august, september, october runner. I mean I, I ski all winter, I'm bartending, I'm not putting in the miles, I'm not training for these early season races. Um, so, like the stakes are really high on this one, uh, but at the same time, like, dude, like the guys lining up with that race this year, I mean I'm not, I'm not going to even think that I'm in shape and strong enough right now to be able to keep up with those guys. Like it's going to be. It's going to be just heinous off the gun, you know. Like it's going to be paces being pushed. There's going to be young guys up there trying to, you know, throw their hat in the ring. Like it's going to be a very, very competitive race.
Speaker 2:Um. So, personally, me you will not see me, probably even in the top five or top 10 after that first lap, like I'm. I'm using my now. I mean, I would consider I kind of am starting to consider myself a little bit more on the veteran side of this uh, 50 K mountain scene. Um. So I'm going to, I'm going to race it with that in mind. I'm going to be racing it with that in mind and try to use my experience, my advantage, and not just try to go out and join the dick measuring contest. I'm going to try to race with some brains.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny you say that, man, because it's so true. Usually, usually the person or the group trying to lead in the first half of that 46k is not necessarily a person winning the race, unless you're david sinclair. Like it's interesting, like how, like it really does, like there's so much hubris that gets caught up in in the first lap, like people like like just there's epic implosions that happen, so it's's going to be interesting oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've been on. I've been on the shitty side of that too. I've been on the side of being the one that explodes at that race. Uh, I, I think it was 20, 2021 maybe or 2022. Uh, one of those years. It was the last time it was a world's qualifier. Um of those years. It was the last time it was a world's qualifier.
Speaker 2:Um, it was just trading back and forth with david the entire race and it was mostly the two of us kind of just going back and forth, and then by the second lap I was in second place going down shirley, and all you have at that point is one more uphill up shirley, then you take the long downhill back. So I think I had four miles left in the race. I was in second place and the legs just absolutely imploded, like I had quads, calves, hamstrings, everything was so cramped and seizing that I just started getting past one by one, by one. I think I went from second to eighth, eighth or ninth and, like the last four miles of the race, it's like a snail's pace trying to get down that hill and it was just painful and brutal. And yeah, that's not happening again, dude, not going to let that happen again.
Speaker 2:So I'd rather take 10th place than go from second to eighth.
Speaker 1:Dude. It's interesting man. I feel like a lot of people are injured this year or like going into this race, like coming off of injuries like I talked to david man and there's a good chance david might not even be at this race like there's quite a few people that are going to be absent or are just coming off injuries as well, which is kind of crazy. I don't know what it was like, what, what happened this offseason. Like I imploded, I'm like, I'm broken. Like there's so many people that like I don't know, or just not doing too good right now that's the sport, man.
Speaker 2:I mean that's just what we do. Like if you're not, I mean especially like you can't. You can't keep up with these guys anymore unless you're giving it pretty much everything in training. Like you have to be towing the line. If you're not towing the line, I mean maybe you could be a little bit under the line. But like, if you're not towing the line, if you're not towing the line, I mean maybe you could be a little bit under the line. But like, if you're not towing the line and you're not trying to be on that podium, like you're not gonna be. Like it's like the margins are getting slimmer and slimmer every single year and that's just the nature of the sport and it's a beautiful thing, dude.
Speaker 1:Like that's why we compete what's your take on like this stupid mileage people are doing like m McGavro threw up 160 mile a week last week, dude.
Speaker 2:I saw that Is this sustainable?
Speaker 1:Are people going to like?
Speaker 2:For Jeff yes, dude, for Jeff. It is sustainable, because Jeff is literally a bionic man. That guy's insane. I don't know man, a lot of. It seems like it comes in phases though, too. You know, like you do have a lot of like phases of high, high, high mileage. But I don't know man, I've seen so many people throughout the years like put in those types of miles and then they're super hot for, you know, a year, two years, maybe three years, but then it's like they totally just burn themselves, dude, like I don't know it's.
Speaker 2:I think there's a balance there. Like you want to, like you can make a big splash really quickly by doing that, but the risk is higher, the reward is higher. You know, high risk, high reward, which is that's cool. If you're a gambling man, go for it. But I don't know man, I, I enjoy running, I want to run forever. So it's like the high mileage thing like no, I'm sorry, like I'm just gonna, you know, pick and choose my battles, yeah and uh, not tag along with that whole crew, because it's just too much, it's crazy dude.
Speaker 1:I mean look at anna gibson, though, dude, like she does, like I mean less. I mean she's pretty pretty open about like what she does. She does not do crazy high volume and she's a freaking world beater man. I mean this week, like I don't think we figured out like how good anna is yet. Like she, I don't think so. I think like potential to be one of the best, if not like the best ever at some point in time, like by the because she's so young, by the time it's all said and done. Like I was astonished on how chill she looked like at the end. Like when we did uh, it was like um at centipede, we did like a finish line interview, just like completely calm, chill, like and like watching her run and I was like, oh my god, dude, like what the hell?
Speaker 2:she's so cool dude. Well, the thing about her too is, like she you said, she doesn't really do a lot of the high, she's not doing high mileage running wise, but she's. She's on her bike Like she's I. Hopefully, hopefully, her approach changes a lot of people's mentality, with the high mileage equating to fast times type of mentality. I mean, you know, she's putting in time on the bike. She's putting in time I don't know how much she's in the weight room. We did go, we did have a sauna session right before zagama. Um, I don't know how often she's doing that kind of stuff, but yeah, whatever, whatever she's doing, she's just got to keep doing it and she'll end up being one of the best for sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, easily, easily did you follow son of p at all? You any? You got any hot takes from that race?
Speaker 2:Uh, I'm so upset that Dan Kurtz didn't make the team because he's my favorite short distance runner right now. Um, that's, that's my, that's my biggest take. I guess that I was really surprised I haven't heard of Taylor stack but I'm super impressed by that guy. Yeah, like, oh, total, like hell. Yeah, I came out for me. I mean, I don't really follow the shorter distances that often. Um, no surprise that david norris won. I mean, david norris, cam smith up there, uh, uh, taylor wait, who's who's?
Speaker 2:second again on the moon was second mason, yeah um, I haven't met mason yet either, but like dude, these guys are so fast like the young, the young crew coming up through the ranks. Like those guys got some wicked speed man like it's.
Speaker 1:It's badass and it's really fun to watch yeah yeah, I wasn't surprised at all by the women I think the women's team just makes the most sense, like that but like by the men's team, yeah, my heart goes out to dan man. I haven't reached out to him yet or said anything, but like, yeah, like I felt really bad because dude dan was in the mix the entire time, like like at one point in time I thought he was just gonna like going into the second lap. He was in the lead with mason and I think norris was close behind and I thought dan was just gonna pull it off because he's you know, it's just a stupid fast downhiller. And yeah, he just I don't know what happened on that second climb, but the race got away from him and yeah, it's crazy and like kudos to Taylor for being able to move up into that.
Speaker 2:Like well, it was crazy to see the whole thing unfold, so yeah, yeah, I think I mean Dan kind of said it himself too, like a week or two, uh, going for the segment over at uh sanitas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean he kind of he kind of touched on it. I don't know if it's an instagram post or strava post, but you know the whole idea of like trying to, you know, bop around, find somewhere to sleep every night, like the inconsistency of the training while living in your van, like that's such a romantic way to live life and to to train and to experience trail running, and I think it is a beautiful thing, but it does make for some harder. You know some difficulty in terms of you know, can you get the weightlifting in? Can you get, you know, a good, you know good recovery and sleep patterns in? Are you eating right, are you doing all these things that having a sense of stability really helps with? So I think he touched on that a little bit. I don't know if that still has something to do with it. I mean it could, but like it's not. Like, dude, we're gonna see so much more of dan kurtz over the years that I'm not, I'm not sweating it yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:I just felt bad for him because I know he was like he wanted. I know he wanted this one bad. So next time, dude, I was gonna message him and be like yo, yo, you got to sign up for the Broken Arrow ascent. Just fucking come to Broken Arrow Dude.
Speaker 2:I texted the same exact thing. I'm like dude, you see, at Broken Arrow now, right, please don't race the 46K, but I'll see you there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right back to Broken Arrow. I know we're limited on time here because I know you got to go four. All right, so we know what this race will mean. What are you going to be racing in? What's the North Face shoe choice these days?
Speaker 2:I'm going to go Infinite. The Infinite 3, which is unfortunately being discontinued. This is the last rendition of that model and this is probably the last model that I'll ever have, unfortunately, but the Infinite 3.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. What's the plans for the rest of the year? What are you going to be doing the rest of the summer? Anything in?
Speaker 2:particular on the docket Dude. God only knows. Man, I'm going to wait and see about this whole world thing. I mean, best case scenario, I don't get my ass kicked too bad at Broken Arrow and can still get in on a resume spot. I'm kind of banking on that, hoping on that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you are going to apply. I was kind of beating around the bush there.
Speaker 2:All right, oh yeah, banking on that, hoping on that. Okay, so you are gonna apply. I was, I was kind of beating around the bush there. All right, oh yeah, no, 100 applied already. Yeah, already got the application background check.
Speaker 1:Got the usatf membership I got every all the ducks in a row, so at this point I just need to perform. Tell hooper he better fucking pick you. Dude, come on dude, I'll.
Speaker 2:I mean if he, I hope so. I mean, come on, tom, let's go. Dude, I suck in June, I'm pretty good in September though.
Speaker 1:If you get on the team, what would that mean to you? Oh, dude, everything, especially given your circumstance. Dude, I don't want to go too much in the case, because I think that's for another pod, for another day. Like, given the circumstance on, like where you've been, first the united states and then to go run for the united states, that's, that's a little crazy, dude, like, what would that mean to you, that'd be a pretty funny, uh funny story there, just like, yeah, up and down, um, I mean I'm I've been I've been aiming for that goal for a really long time.
Speaker 2:I mean, the last few renditions of the race I narrowly missed out. So I mean, yeah, that's been a goal for a really long time. I think of it. I don't know, I think in terms of mountain running, especially with this course in Spain, like that's like 100% the reason why I run is for courses like that. You know, like doing a marathon distance with 12 000 feet of vertical through technical mountain terrain, like, dude, come on, like that's literally like what I don't know. It's. The whole entire reason for doing this sport is for, you know, things like that. So I mean I feel like course profile, uh, and just being at that race is like that's so important.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, dude, even even with all the the legal mumbo jumbo and all that stuff, so important. I mean, yeah, dude, even even with all the legal mumbo jumbo and all that stuff, like that doesn't mean I'm not proud to be an American. That doesn't mean I'm not proud to represent my country, like of course I would be, I would be honored Like I don't, I don't like one. You know one scenario that this whole entire, whatever legal stuff like that, doesn't make me hate my country, like no. It's just like a very, very small piece of it all, like it's a very small piece of the pie. And uh, yeah, if the, if I had the opportunity to represent the? U of s, I would jump at that opportunity and do it in a heartbeat. There would be no question, wouldn't even the the, the determination's already been made, you know it's a beautiful answer, dude.
Speaker 1:I think we'll end it on that. I know you're kind of tight on time here. Michelino, wishing you the best of luck, man, I can't wait till our next conversation, next one we got to do. We'll do it in person and it'll be a long form one. We got we got a lot to chat about. We got to do a Joe Rogan style episode. I'll see you. You're going to be a broken, all right, no man, I so I'm going out East, I leave, I leave Thursday. So it's, my life's a mess right now. Uh, suppose it was leaving Thursday to go race. Uh, canon, cirque Canon and then Cirque Killington, and we were going to stay at my in-laws in like they live like close to the vermont border, like in upstate new york. But now that, like my, I've got like a cranky sacrum slash, like si joint, that, like I haven't ran in three weeks I've just been on the bike, so probably not racing this weekend, um, and I plan to hopefully maybe make it to killington on like zero fitness.
Speaker 2:So we'll see, um, so yeah, I don't know, bike fitness is fitness you're good, just keep, just keep biking you're.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be fine, I promise I hopped on the treadmill for five minutes today and realized I could run like the. The joint was a little cranky but like can run and I was like I feel pretty good. So I started cranking it up and seeing like how fast I get. I don't know. So yeah, the goal is the goal is to get back to, not how you do that, but all right, you know what?
Speaker 1:dude, were you, was he someone I don't know if it was you or someone else was telling me about dry needling and like I've been doing a lot of dry needling and that has like saved me. I I think the last time I saw you maybe you were talking about on your achilles or something like that, but I've been doing that on my back um with the chiropractor. It makes a huge difference. I've been kind of blown away by it.
Speaker 2:So oh yeah, I live by that stuff. I think it's fantastic, that's good stuff.
Speaker 1:All right, next year. Next year I'll be a broken arrow, so I'll make it happen. Dude, enjoy your afternoon Always good catching up, and we'll be in touch. All right, cheers, dude Talk soon.
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