The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Dani Moreno - Pre Broken Arrow 46K Interview
A broken bone can shatter more than just your foot – it can fracture your confidence. When professional Adidas Terrex athlete Dani Marino suffered a cuboid fracture (the rare "nutcracker fracture") during OCC last year, the physical damage was just the beginning. The psychological barrier of running downhill again loomed larger than any mountain course.
This conversation captures a pivotal moment in Marino's comeback journey. Fresh off a confidence-building performance at the GoPro Games, where navigating through crowds of runners on technical terrain proved she could trust her body again, Dani opens up about the mental obstacles that often outweigh physical ones. "Coming home I'm like I think I'm healed, like I can run downhill now," she reflects with palpable relief.
What stands out most is the evolution of athletic support systems in trail running. Marino describes her approach as a table where she sits at the center, with equal input from specialists: coach Tom Evans, nutritionist Kyla Chanel, sports psychologist Kai, her sister as strength coach, plus massage therapists and chiropractors. This integrated method represents how trail running has professionalized beyond solo training into comprehensive athletic development.
The relationship between athlete and sponsor shines as especially progressive. When injury struck, Adidas Terrex didn't disappear – they increased support. "Getting a phone call from my team manager, 'Hey, just how's it going today?' goes such a long way," Marino explains. "It makes you want to show up more for the brand when you know they care about you." This approach respects athletes as humans, not just result-generating machines.
Looking ahead to Broken Arrow 46K and CCC later this season, Marino reveals her tactical approach as "a hunter" who excels at closing strong. Her race philosophy and patient return from injury offer valuable lessons for athletes at any level. Whether you're battling back from injury or seeking to understand elite performance, this candid conversation reveals the mental, physical, and professional elements that shape a champion's journey.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, bringing you another Broken Arrow pre-race interview, this one for the 46K, with none other than Miss Dani Marino, professional athlete for Adidas Terex as well as co-host of the SubHub Podcast. It was super fun to catch up with Dani. Dani and I collaborated recently, along with MK, at the Sun at Peace Scramble livestream, which you guys might have been able to tune into or follow along. It was super fun.
Speaker 1:Uh, what a special moment in our sport to get to uh crown seven new athletes to go compete over in can frank uh this september. But more about danny, it was. It was fun getting to just catch up, see where her build has been. I know she's had some bumps in the road as far as injury goes, um, and it's just been cool to kind of talk about her progression and kind of where she's at now going into this race. Um, as I know, the Stoke is probably extremely high uh, and Danny is kind of poised to knock one out of the park. Maybe a for a home run, uh for her, which would be kind of cool. Um, we talked about the rest of her plans outside of broken arrow. We talked about her uh goals and plans to go to CCC at the end of the summer and go race over at CCC, which is pretty cool, which is kind of a big, audacious goal. Danny has already kind of hit some home runs and had some amazing finishes at OCC, so I kind of think that's that natural progression to go up and see what CCC is all about.
Speaker 1:We also got a little bit into Broken Arrow and why this race is so special to her. Back in 2018, dani won the 23K, so as a new athlete in the sport who had just been sponsored at that time. So it's cool as the race has grown this was before Broken Arrow is what it is today, as well as Dani. So Dani's had this amazing progression in the sport and so has the race itself. So it's cool to follow both of those storylines and those character arcs, which is kind of neat. So, guys, I hope you enjoy this one. It's quite special. It was really fun getting to chat with danny and I hope to have her back on for a long form interview down the line, hopefully after this race or some point in time during the summer. So, without further ado, none, none other than Miss Dani Marino. Dani Marino, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:It's going well. Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. We're kind of like a sister-brother podcast, so it's fun yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, I know it's so cool. I got to have MK on too. We got to do. We got to do collab we got to, I got to figure out like for collabs in the future. It was so nice I got to hand this to you Like. It was so nice getting to hang out with you guys and chat with you both like and do the commentary for son of P like. I had an absolute blast. It was just so much fun.
Speaker 2:Same and it was so cool. I was at GoPro games this past weekend just a couple of years, not years days ago and a couple of people come up and just praise us and like, thank us and for having people that are really plugged into the sub ultra scene doing the commentating. So that just obviously gave me some feel good feelings. But yeah, that was super, super fun.
Speaker 1:Not to put you on the spot. I'm just so curious Cause I? This is something I've been thinking about a lot Like what was your, what was your favorite part?
Speaker 2:Like I have my direct like favorite part, but I'm just curious, as what yours was of the commentating of the commentary? Yeah, that's hard to say. I mean, the races themselves were really cool. Um, I think, for me, just, I don't know, maybe hyping up the people getting ready for the commentary and it feeling so um and natural, like I thought we did a really good job of like filling space with just like facts from our head and also just like, yeah, getting to put a face to a voice. I've listened to a handful of your podcasts and, yeah, just like teaming up. What about you? And I'm curious, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:So it's been stuck sticking with me since we did it and I was like you know the it was. I think it was the energy at the end when we got to talk to a few of the athletes after the race. It made me kind of fall back in love with the sport all over again Because I was like their excitement level you could just feel like it was palpable Like Anna Gibson, Ali.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think we talked to Taylor after he just like had his breakout performance and you could just see the excitement level on their faces and like they were just starting to figure out, like what I just did and then being able to like kind of like feel that energy and feel their excitement, that I don't know, it was just, it was very special, like I got to say like top five moments in the entire sport for me, like ever super cool.
Speaker 2:So I love that. I also will say too, like being a commentator watching the sport, like if you watch other sports, when the commentators just get so excited and are kind of like group collectiveness of excitement, as we realized, like how the race was happening, I felt like we were just out there cheering, you know, and I was trying to like reel myself on. I'm like damn, she looks so good, let's go. And it's like wait, wait, you're commentating, give the people context of what's going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it breaks my heart when you don't see folks achieving like the goals that they want to write, you know and when it really matters. So, yeah, I don't know, sorry about that I totally get it.
Speaker 2:It's hard to kind of be, as sometimes the hardest part is being as objective as possible, like as a commentator, podcast host, etc. Because, like you said, like we're in the scene which is an incredible asset of ours Like we understand, we have empathy, we've been there the highs and the lows. But yeah, when you're homies with someone and you're commentating like same with Rachel Tomaszek, like I was really rooting for her. Broken hearted, yeah, but like I was rooting for you know 10 other women to make the team as well, so yeah it's a.
Speaker 1:I totally get it. It's a, it's a crazy, it's a weird sport, right? So you get to commentate, you get to talk about it, but you're also a participant in it and, it's like you know, you're participating at a high level. So you feel pretty much all you felt all of the emotions that these people are feeling and you understand it, can relate so intimately and understand what they're going through Wanting to drop out at the top of the climb because you're going so hard, or wanting to quit, wanting to fail and all these different things. So it's weird because it's not a lot of sports like the NBA, for instance yeah, some of those guys did play or maybe soccer, a lot of them are former athletes and stuff like that, but very few in sports do you see athletes be the commentators. So it makes it kind of unique and different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, while they're actively doing it, because, to your point, most of them it's when they retire and they're done yeah.
Speaker 1:That's true, that's true. So how's it going? How you just got back from the GoPro games? Um, had a great, great race at the 10 K. How did how did it feel to, especially given like your circumstances, where you've been on this journey trying to get back from injury, Now you're healthy again. Knock on wood. Um, yeah, how was the GoPro games?
Speaker 2:It must've been super exciting feeling to go out there and throw down. You tell me, yeah, uh, it's so funny. You know, yesterday I had a call with my sports psych. Today, you know, sent messages back and forth with my coach and, uh, I feel like you know, immediately after the race, the emotions are very high. Uh, at least for me. I'm a very emotive person, um, and so, yeah, having a couple days to kind of like pull myself out of that immediate moment, yeah, I would say it was a net positive and it served its purpose. I've done the GoPro games.
Speaker 2:I think that was like my fourth time and this was the same course as two years ago, because that race changes a lot. Like last year, the course was like five miles significantly shorter, um, but yeah, it's always like a really fun event and now that I've been with Adidas Terex for a couple of years, they are now one of, like, the main sponsors of it, so that's pretty cool. Um, the race itself was like a little chaotic because it's a one loop course, it a 10k, but they started the 20k, which is the same route, two laps five minutes before us and then, halfway through our race, they started the 5k, which shared the last two miles as us um. So yeah, we were just constantly going around people the entire time and it got the motions, got a heated but hilarious the last two miles because Courtney Coppinger, who's been absolutely crushing it a good friend of mine we were like trying to race but like navigate. You know, children and older people and people who have never been on the trails before for and it's just a plethora of like I'm sorry, I'm sorry on the left, like I'm sorry, I'm sorry on the left. I almost took out a girl on the downhill. Like I had to hold her to keep her from falling because it was just like, you know, trying to yell at people, but like in a very polite kind of way. So yeah, it's like long story long, like yeah, it served its purpose, gave me some confidence.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing is I've been, I've had like a mental block on the downhill. My injury was like a pretty acute traumatic injury from OCC last year where I actually like snapped part of my bone off and cracked the bone and tore partially, tore my tendon on an ankle roll, and so that like has been a big, old, old, traumatic thing I've been working through. So yeah, having to navigate through people and jump on and off a trail like a single track. It's not like the most technical, but what makes it difficult is you're trying to run it quite fast. That was a huge leap forward there, and just coming home I'm like I think I'm healed, like I can run downhill now, which is great. Yeah, that's kind of a long winded answer, but no, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:It's crazy Because, like, sometimes you just got to do the darn thing and it's like it removes whether it's a mental block or whether you have this skepticism about the physicality and ability, and sometimes you just go and do it and you're like, oh, I can do this or I can't, but a lot of times when you can do it it's very. It just unlocks that mental, maybe a mental block or that mental capacity that you know you might've been hesitant with in the past. So that's very cool, you broke the cuboid.
Speaker 1:I was reading your Instagram the comment there. Where is that bone in the foot, like, can you help, like, understand, like, cause it's? I've never heard of the cuboid before. It's kind of unique.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very rare fracture. They call it the nutcracker fracture and it typically happens in like car accidents, um, because of the pressure of the car hitting it. But it's like this big bone between like basically like your talus and then the start of your metatarsals on the outer part. So it was my left foot, so it was like the outer left, and just with the way that my ankle kind of like, I basically like clipped my big toe and it rolled out and forward it like somehow like the metatarsals and the talus pushed it together and then it cracked. But the thing that I learned later was simultaneously my perineus longus had also ripped a part of the sheath of the cuboid off as well, and that's actually what took longer to heal.
Speaker 1:Wow, and you knew. You immediately did it Like.
Speaker 2:Were you like an agonizing pain, or was it something you tried to run through, or I immediately knew it was terrible, for sure, cause I, um, I was running actually like quite fast. I think I was running like sub five minute pace downhill or something and I rolled into the trees Granted, this is OCC, and I thought I was going to drop out right there. And then I looked back and there was one more girl coming down the hill and I was like let's just try and rally. So I did like kind of one of those like limp hobbles and then, you know, adrenaline great drug started to kick in, um, but I was like limping the rest of the way to the, to the um finish line for sure. But I knew it was really bad. I was just overly optimistic, um, and then, once I got home, I knew like I was kind of effed.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that is not well. No, yeah, fortunately, on the other side of it, things are good now. Yeah, yeah, we're here to talk about broken arrow. Um, flip the script. Yeah, yeah, let's. How's the? I mean, you've had a lot of history with this race. I feel like when you were very young in your career, you won the 23k, which was such a like I mean, this was one before broken arrow. It was like, in as were very young in your career, you won the 23K, which was such a I mean, this was one before Broken Arrow, as Broken Arrow was in the process of coming up right, almost like it was very important for your career to go win and you had an amazing finish last year in 2024 as well.
Speaker 1:This is a very centered race to your story, especially living not too far You're in Mammoth Lakes Maybe talk about the importance of Broken Arrow to you and kind of like how centered is to your story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first year I did it, I think I just gotten sponsored, maybe, like earlier that year, um, and simultaneously, like, I just started trail running too. Like I got sponsored pretty early on Um and as per, I don't know most things in life. You Google it if you don't know what's going on. And so I, you know, googled trail running in the U? S and at the time there was a U S sky running circuit which like, like didn't last very long, sadly. I wish they still had that and this was part of it. And so, um, yeah, that was the main reason why I came out to it.
Speaker 2:Like I honestly didn't know much about it before then, and I also run the GoPro games that year and I was living at sea level and, yeah, I just remember that day feeling so easy until I came over the top. I think it was a much different course. This course has changed quite a bit. I just cramped the whole way down because I was it was at a point in my career and also just like the sport in general where, like, I had one flask and one gel, you know, and I was like, why do I cramp all the time and then, you know, over?
Speaker 2:time you learn. So I will never forget that downhill I like finally stopped at an aid station and like drank like three cups of water and that got me to the finish. Got me to the finish. So, yeah, that was pretty cool. That was like probably one of my biggest prize checks at the time too, which you know it's still really cool at this age of my life, but at that point in my life was very, very much like helping me pay for student loans and stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I kind of took a break from it. I think I just have a tendency to want to try new races, to be honest, and when I feel like I've done a good job, I'll kind of like move on to the next project. And then I post COVID, like really dove into the global scene, and that's when this race like really started to like, I think, catch some momentum, competition wise and just like media wise, cetera. But I always like found myself somewhere else, um, and then finally, last year I forget why we chose to do it Um, I had done Canyon 50K and then Zagama, which didn't go very well. I think I was just like you know what I need to force the legs to move and like get some momentum again. Um, and admittedly, like coming into the race I was quite tired, um, and so I thought last year I was actually pretty not upset, but like a little slightly disappointed with the fifth place finish. Yeah, all right. I don't know if that answers your question it does, it does so there's hunger then.
Speaker 1:I guess that gets the like. There's hunger then to go back this year, I would. Would imagine the goal would be you tell me what is your expectation and goal for this year? Is it to make the world's team? Is it to compete against some of these best women in the world? Where's that thought process at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was one of the races that when I originally came out of my boot I think I had my eye on, which was like end of last year, and then I realized that I wasn't ready to run. So then I took sorry, it's hard to think of like what past Danny was thinking about. I signed up for CCC and so I was thinking it would be like a good place where I'm like surely by then I should be at pretty good fitness and it'll help me build towards CCC, because I think it's proved to be a really good american race. I think like the combination of broken arrow and or speed goat tends to uh bode well for americans. Ie like helamino faulkner, adam peterman, many people before that, ruth croft once like came out and did speed goat. So I just think for the races we have available over here, like it's a good stimulus.
Speaker 2:The goal I mean April. I will be frank like my training is the least it's been in a really long time. Like I was running 30 mile weeks, 20 to 30 mile weeks, most of like March, february, march, even going into April I had like a couple 15 mile weeks, and this is coming from someone that historically has run significantly more than that. So, yeah, I would say the goal, probably in April, was like top 10. And then, you know, may came around and I'm like maybe top five, I'm not sure. After GoPro I'm like feeling a bit more assured about top five, daring to dream potentially about the podium. But yeah, purely chasing competition, I would say the Worlds team. It's hard. I think once, if I were to like get a red, white and blue ticket, which I love, I think I will definitely be tempted, but I don't know what my decision would be on this day.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Okay, I like it. I like it. I mean it's gonna be. This is a crazy year, right? We've got the ascent, formerly known as the VK, you know arguably could be the most competitive race ever assembled on American soil, which is nuts, you know. Obviously, the 23k is a golden trail series race and the 46k is a selection race, so more eyes will be on this race than ever before and I wonder, like, what you know, I don't know. Like, does that, does that do anything for nerves? Does it make you nervous with all these people out there and all these things, given you've raced on some of the, like, the biggest stages on the planet now, or is it just another day at the office for you? Like, what kind of what's your, your thought on that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would say, you know it's a mix of feelings.
Speaker 2:Like I mostly get excited about fields like this. Um, immediately it feels a little bittersweet though, because I I am at heart, I would say, mostly a realist, with like a sprinkle of optimism, and then, usually, as I get closer to a race day, the optimism shifts to be the majority. Um, but yeah, just knowing where my fitness has been in the past when I've been on world-class podiums or won big races here in the U? S, and knowing what tools I have, right now, uh, I feel like I'm showing up to recess, you know, just not quite ready to play with the kids and I, at heart, am, like I just love competing, like I think it's so fun and it's like kind of a game to me it's very playful.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I would say it's like bittersweet and excitement for sure, because this is a really good field. Like this is the type of field that, like I normally get really, really, really amped up, which I feel that. But I'm like damn. But when the move goes, like how am I going to feel? And I think that's the part where my brain is kind of like being tickled a bit.
Speaker 1:The thing I like about this course, the 46K in particular, is it's two laps around, it's two loops right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's not just one loop right, whereas one loop you can make less mistakes. So I'm an optimist. I'm a serial optimist as well.
Speaker 1:I think, about this and with two loops there's usually opportunity. It changes the dynamic right. It's almost like Sunapee, where the person leading the first lap might not be the person winning the race. Like, epic blowups occur and historically have occurred at Broken Arrow. We've seen quite a few of them, you know, is there anything you'll bring in Because you have so much experience that you can kind of bring in and maybe leverage on a race like this? Like, are you going to be racing it, maybe less aggressively on the first half and more aggressive and hunting in the second half? Like, how do you plan to approach it? Like strategy wise?
Speaker 2:When is this episode coming out? Maybe?
Speaker 1:next week sometime, I don't know Okay.
Speaker 2:I've seen how much into detail I should go.
Speaker 1:I'll get it like a couple of days before, so keep it. Keep it in detail.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, yeah, I mean, while my fitness probably isn't firing on all cylinders, which I will like, with an asterisk and caveat say like that's kind of really most exciting for me for CCC, because I feel like by CCC I will be, and that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:It's been a while that there's been a year where I'm like at my solo peak at a really big race, um, with that being said, like I do take a lot of pride in my ability to like be a tactician in races, like I'm very good at closing, so you know, thinking back to a plethora of races, but like 2022 alone, like Mont Blanc, I moved from 10th to third in the last like hour and a half. Occ. The same thing, I moved from I think it was like 15th to third in like the second half of the race, um, and so, yeah, with the two loops. I am a person who's very excited about the two loops and I feel like, um, I'm going to do the best with I got like fitness, but I think, tactically wise, like I'm going to run to my strengths and I am a hunter. With that being said, like, if there's a window where I think the race would benefit me, for me to take the lead, then I'm not like scared to do that.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great way to say it now and I think it's funny you say that tactician. I always, the the more I get into this and the more I get more obsessed with the sport, I start to think of different people and the way they approach, maybe their racing approaches, and I always refer it back to race IQ in a lot of ways. You see some people just go out so aggressive and it's like holding on for dear life and it's like some people can get away with that Usually. That doesn't. Example of race iq I can probably put out there was two people and they were both us mountain running champions this year.
Speaker 1:I watching anna gibson executing the way she did was very interesting to me, um, and just like just very flawless. And norris too. Norris held back for like that entire first half and kind of just played things out and neither of them made. They didn't wait. They both waited to make moves until the second climb, like high up on the second climb, and then took the win, obviously on the descents. And it's just very interesting to me to, like, you know, kind of employ like the race iq and how that actually plays into our sport as it's evolved and gotten so much more competitive now yeah, it's definitely becoming more interesting.
Speaker 2:I think there is like a brash and boldness that has historically been very rewarding to the person who is most bold. But I think with everyone's relative fitness and just overall, like you said, like race IQ, but also just like being smart with everything else like heat training, fueling and stuff, it's more common that people can go out or actually like catch people because their fitness is there too. But yeah, it's interesting because, yeah, sometimes to do everything honestly and I think Mammoth Trail Fest 2024, I went out pretty aggressive and still ended up second and that was new for me. I was like I guess I'll just try this, I have nothing to lose. So I wouldn't say that was like an absolute fail. But then, like Canyons 50K last year, I sat back the whole first hour and then, like you said, like once I made my move, I kind of was up front. But yeah, it's pretty fun.
Speaker 2:I also think, just like the race duration too like Sunapee was an hour ish, right. So how many moves actually can happen in that amount of time? That stick versus this race? Almost going to be five hours, probably for the female winner, especially if there's snow on the course. Like that's a lot of time to make, uh, great moves and also mistakes that will come back to bite you.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree. Yeah, it is just so interesting and you're right, it's, I don't know. I feel like maybe to you, like you're saying like maybe I don't have that volume there traditionally that I normally have, but just bringing that experience and a five hour race, like you know, you like there's, there's opportunities to make moves and it could very well play out into your, to help you On that topic, if you have the day you want. So you said, if you have the day you want, you would take the ticket. You're thinking Possibly. I just got to get that out of you. Final answer.
Speaker 2:I immediately am leaning towards no in this moment.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, because I'm signed up for CCC and just like that double would be hard yeah it would be hard and it just, I don't know, coming off of eight months of injury or just navigating an injury and coming back it just the foot has already knock on wood has been so great. This, I would say like this third chapter cause like lakes, pre lakes, to know my role did again has been so great. I would say this third chapter because pre-Lakes to Nome, I rolled it again the same injured foot and that did a number on me mentally, yeah. So I'm just taking it play by play, but in this moment it doesn't feel like the wisest move for me this year.
Speaker 1:I think it's really smart. It's a very professional move to make in a lot of ways. So on the term professional, one of the things I find really interesting about you is like you are a full professional in the sport. You belong to obviously extremely professional team Shout out to Terex. We'll talk about that in a second. But you had said you also work with the sports psychologist or sports. Yeah, sports psychologist. You seem like you do a lot of like the little things. Maybe can you talk a little bit about that and just kind of break that out. On all the little things that you do. You don't have to give any like secret sauce away, but I'm just so curious to hear like all the things you're doing outside of running that just play a huge role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would definitely say that was part of the evolution of going full-time pro, just like a couple of years ago, and kind of accepting the like constant evolution of the sport and, just like myself as an individual, just because something works one year doesn't mean it's going to work the next year. And so, yeah, I would say the biggest learning I had during this injury was realizing that, like I have this table and I'm at the center of the table and every seat at the table ie someone that I work with is an equal amount of input and not one chair should have full power, like over my career, and so that was a really good, helpful metaphor of learning that I learned during this time. So I have my coach, who's Tom Evans, and then I have my nutritionist, who's Kyla Chanel of Nutritional Revolution, and then I have my sports psych His name is Kai and Adidas Terex. Being as awesome as they are, that's like a built-in resource for us.
Speaker 2:And then I have my strength coach, who's my sister, which is really cool. She's like one of the smartest people I've ever met. So, yeah, I have those four things. And then I have a like also massage therapist Michelle in town here, and this is like weekly things. My Cairo Amy she's in town. I see her at least every other week. Michelle I I see twice a week right now, which is awesome for shorter appointments. I'm trying to think if there's anyone else, yeah, those are like them. And then obviously all my partners and like sponsors, which is great.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, Yo. On the on the topic of Cairo, I just discovered the Cairo not too long ago when I got injured and like the whole dry needling thing I don't know if you're into that, yo, that is.
Speaker 2:that has changed my life it's not legal in california actually not.
Speaker 1:I'm in new york.
Speaker 2:It's also not legal in new york and I'm like yeah, it's so weird how it's legal in some places but not others oh, I asked the lady.
Speaker 1:I was like because I called up and I was like all right, because I had getting been getting so much like help from it. I call up the late like a person that, like it's, they're quoted on the on their website that it's acupuncture, which I thought was the same thing, not the same uh-huh, not the same thing, she's like it's illegal and but couldn't give me an answer why.
Speaker 1:So? Yeah, it's a little bit of a bummer, but the chiro is yeah, gotta hand say, hands down the chiropractic work uh yeah, and there's some not great chiros.
Speaker 2:I will say that I've had some not good experiences, but my Cairo here, mammoth, like she is just incredible, like incredibly intuitive. Like I'll walk in and she'll be like are you on your period? I'm like how did you know that? Like she's like oh, you look swollen here and like your bones aren't blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, whatever, like that's cool ever like that's cool, it's really interesting yeah, I like I said like there's. Yeah, I think it's with anything, right, anything.
Speaker 1:Some people are really good and some people are, yeah, not so good. I think it a lot of it, too, comes down to their level and ability. That you know if they have worked with athletes in the past and if they that's like their thing is to work with athletes. So, yeah, no, it's really. How do you like tom evans as a coach? Like that's? I admire that guy. That guy is so cool, like he's like one of the biggest names in our sport. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, If Tom wasn't a participant in the sport and one of the best in the world right now to me, he's like he would be one of the most sought after coaches for sure. He coaches my friends Tony McCann and Ingvild Kasperson, and then he also coaches Elsie Davis and me, so it's like the four of us and I think he coaches some other people too. But he is an incredibly, incredibly smart coach and he's very caring. He's such a like a good human which I appreciate and I actually like went through a coaching change going from the end of last year into this year and he just like exactly what I was looking for, like someone who has had experience in the sport, knows like what it takes to like transform almost like a road track background into like a mountain athlete, someone who, like had a lot of empathy and understanding of injury and I mean homie went through it himself like the gauntlet, uh, before the year that he was third at UTMB, Um, and so, yeah, I mean I talk about my volume, but I am so grateful he held me back for so long.
Speaker 2:It was just always like Danny, it's going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it Like, let's do the least amount possible, Cause then it'll just kind of be a springboard. So he really like kept me to that very like only running three days a week for so long, or four days starting at like two, three hours of running, two hours of running, Um, and so, yeah, I'm just really grateful for him. He's, he's wickedly smart.
Speaker 1:He's a very, very good coach. That's so interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure I mean you don't get to be as good as he is and not knowing anything, so I would imagine he's probably a brain All right. So, on this topic, because Tom formerly was with Terax and obviously you have such an amazing team with Terax and some of my favorite people are on that team, maybe talk about it, because it's like the most family-like team you see out there, like everybody's very tight-knit, everybody's very close. Maybe talk a little bit like what it's like being on that team and just what that means to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I couldn't say enough praises about Terex and, just like the management team, they care so much about us, which is incredible. The the management team, they care so much about us, which is incredible. And, from like a management perspective, I, from what I hear, like we have the most support, like we have four main individuals that are helping the team. It's not just one person trying to do everything, um, and I mean, but we also have a pretty big team too, like it's I would say it's one of the bigger teams, um, but yeah, I mean, but we also have a pretty big team too, like I would say it's one of the bigger teams. But yeah, I mean we have built-in resources, like I said, like our sports psych and stuff like that, and everyone's really nice.
Speaker 2:I think they are very selective about who they bring onto the team. They do an incredible job. Like they're not looking for the latest greatest, they're looking for like consistency. This is speculation. I've never actually like sat in one of their recruiting meetings, but from just like my few years being on it, it's like they value like consistency and someone just being a good human, uh, which I like really, really appreciate. Like all this. All my teammates are so nice and everyone is just like you know, and someone's like how's your day going? And it like feels very surface level. It's like no, everyone on the team is like no, how are you doing? Like how is life? You know, and you can just like feel it in your heart that they actually care, which is cool.
Speaker 1:I love that. You can tell like you just hit on something that I think really is very important. You can tell the way they recruit. It's very specific people in the sport, very genuine humans, not that other people aren't. I'm just saying it's a very I don't want to say it's a type, but it's a very. They recruit for long term. You could tell these people will be in the sport for a long time, like it's a lot of consistency, like the one of the most recent ones was like the hemmings right. Like makes a lot of sense, right. Like two of the best people in our sport, the sweetest humans, like I don't know, they're just so kind. Everybody I've interacted with on the like josh, super cool dude he's so chill lapuma, lapuma's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like just just really good humans. So, yeah, I definitely like they. They definitely pick some good eggs, so it makes sense. And one of the things I really like I've only talked to I think there's only a one other team I think it was Arcteryx that I was aware of that did like um, that like provided like counseling and like help, right Like that, and I liked that that there's teams that actually do that provide more and just greater resources to the athletes instead of just what you would normally get from a normal athlete contract. So I think that's one more step in the professionalization direction that I think is so important for the professionalization of our sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. They definitely have. I think, what I appreciate as well. I mean my injury, for example, like my team managers reaching out to me as soon as I got like the actual diagnosis and like just reassuring me. They're like we're with you for the long run and just like I could have just heard that, but it was like other stuff on top of that. That was just so nice versus feeling isolated, which I know a lot of athletes have felt like when they get injured. It's like the, the team infrastructure won't engage with you until you're back to competing. But you know, getting a phone call here and there from like my team, one of my team managers, and like, hey, just how's it going today? Like go such a long way and you know it. Just, it makes you want to like show up more for the brand when you know that they care about you.
Speaker 1:And to add to that, you feel more like you're not just like a grouping of your results, like you're also a human right and you're when you're treated like a human and not your results, or not just a grouping of your results, like that that does.
Speaker 1:It goes so far and yeah, I mean I don't know like I, we used to and I don't want to say used to, but like and the sport is still some ways like this. I don't want to go too deep in it, but like you know, like you don't want to have that fear, like you're going to get dropped if you get, if you get injured, like that's yeah horrible, um, and some people still do feel that way in the sport, which is terrible. But like to have that um, just that feeling that like you're good, you're safe, like it's all good and you know we believe in you, like that goes a long way and it helps with recovery too. When your mind's in a good space, you know that's just going to speed up the recovery process.
Speaker 2:No for sure and, like you know, that's just going to speed up the recovery process? No for sure, and, like you know, on the lines of it, speed it up but also allow you to come back at a pace that is actually better for your long-term, if you don't feel like you have to rush back and like, case in point, like Lake Sonoma this year I was hyping myself up, putting out social media first race back in eight months, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, freaking, roll my ankle and like was in pain for you know four or five days and Adidas just you know being like it's okay, you'll be back, like it just wasn't meant to be. We'll have you at the next race, so happy You're still doing like this women's project and stuff like that, um, and yeah, just like really essential or exaggerating that, like please don't rush back, like come back so that you're healthy and can race. Don't like rush back and then you're injured again in like six months, you know, sort of thing.
Speaker 1:It's crazy? Yeah, I think it's, and I it's such a healthy way to approach it, cause we all know, like you see, people come in the sport, do extremely, they feel pressure, they get injured, they feel no pressure and then they kind of you know, they fizzle out.
Speaker 1:It's such a sad thing to see in a sport that, like I don't know one thing I do like and I'll kind of end it on this like the, I think it supports more athlete longevity, which I think we already have a problem with in the sport, with just like not a like short careers. You know and I think now that the sport is getting more professionalized, like that's more of a thing. Like you see people talking like mario mendoza this year is like retiring and he's talking about it yeah which is interesting.
Speaker 2:You're starting to see like the sport morph and change, so more career based stuff which I like to see yeah, and honestly, just like investing in an athlete for the long run, like injuries are going to happen, especially at this point in our career, or the sports lifespan is like we're all starting to play with that line a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Another depth, you know, to the sport or layer, I guess, like to training and stuff, like you have more time to go harder, um, and then like on the female side and like the male side too, but females getting pregnant, men, their partners having babies and like becoming dads, and it's like as brands understanding that like you're investing in this athlete for the long haul. So help them feel that like investment and support Um, because, as we've seen, there's so many examples like you know, after the valleys come really really big peaks and like do you want to be the brand that like dropped the athlete in the Valley and like have that reputation? I wouldn't be, especially if that athlete goes on to win UTMB like two years later. Um, so yeah, I think it's, it's fun.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. And the other thing is you said something very compelling. Like everybody's starting to play with that line. Uh, I know Jeff Cole and Finn were just literally just talking about this on a podcast and like they were basically getting into like we're seeing some 160 mile weeks now, like people are throwing some big numbers around. Do you think that's sustainable? Or you think that there's going to be epic implosions. What's your take on this?
Speaker 2:For Western states specifically or in general.
Speaker 1:We could say in general, you could say Western states. I'm not going to name names, I'm just saying that I've seen some monstrosities of weeks that I'm like yo. This beckons back to the Anton days. Now, obviously, shoe technology and nutrition have come light years away, but still had some massive volume.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's probably. The answer is complicated, for sure. I think it depends on the individual. I think we have to acknowledge there's always anomalies. There's individuals that will be able to run that much mileage for years and probably be fine. Is that the vast majority? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Probably also wonder, like I would say, take into consideration, like that athlete's age and like experience in the sport, their long-term goals.
Speaker 2:You know, a girl or a guy wants to like send it one year and that's it, like that's their choice, like they're adults, um, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, as someone who just recently dealt with definitely over training, um, I think, even like the most resilient athletes, like something's gonna give um, but yeah, that's more the real. The most resilient athletes like something's going to give Um, but yeah, that's more of the real, the real list in me like maybe borderline, like what is that pessimism? Um, but the optimist in me is like let's see where this goes. Maybe they're like jaunting into untreaded waters. That is going to give us like a whole next level of stuff. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe this is like more of a testament to where my mind is, like I specifically chose Tom because he told me let's figure out how to get the most out of you with the least amount of training possible, and I was like you know what? That's what I need right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, you know, and it's funny I was just talking to Anna Gibson about this because she's notorious for not doing massive. She does volume but doesn't do crazy mileage. She spends a lot of time on the bike and is stupid fit. So it's like obviously something you're doing is working and you're not taxing your body and you're fresh. So, yeah, I don't know, I tend to fall in the lesser mileage camp. You could do a lot of work on the bike and cross training and obviously do your running workouts, but you don't have to do stupid running volume to get insanely fit. And I definitely fall into that camp more than I do with the high mileage. Like my body just falls apart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. Maybe a time and place would be like the most. What's that called Wow? Non-polarizing answer Because, like I don't know, if I was running Western States, I feel like and it was my first go I wouldn't be scared to run a hundred mile weeks, anything more than that. I think I might get a little scared, but that's based off of my personal experience.
Speaker 1:So yeah, maybe time and place so interesting. What a sport, yeah.
Speaker 2:One more thing I will say, though, mk Sullivan, my homie. She just reminded me because this was going into go prom, like I have no idea how I'm going to do in this race and she reminded me of Meb, who made the Olympic trial or the Olympic team at like 40 or something, and she said there's like a famous quote or something of him of like how did you do this at 40? And he's like I run way slower and way less, which I don't know.
Speaker 1:that's kind of cool I think there's something to it. Mk, yeah, I like that. Yeah, uh, all right. Uh, game day shoe. What are you rocking for a broken arrow? I can probably guess, but you tell me.
Speaker 2:Uh. Well, this is funny because I got my injury in the asu and so I put that shoe in the back of my closet for a long time. I was like I'm not gonna touch you for a very long time. Gopro games morning of. Um, admittedly, like I was a little shaken up the morning of. I'm like what shoe am I going to wear? Uh, and so I just put the ASUs and left my hotel room. I was like decision made, let's just do it again, you know. And like if I get scared at any point, just back off. That's it. Um, cause I really really have not worn those shoes much. Uh, now that I've worn them again and I was completely fine, yeah, that's what I'm going with for sure.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great choice. I mean, I have heard from people that you're giving yourself a disservice not wearing that shoe because it's that good. So I have never tried them. I'm a pretty show pro guy, but one of these days I might have to strap on a pair just to see what it's all about, because the hype seems legit.
Speaker 2:The hype is real. They're a crazy shoe. Um, it just takes some getting used to, depending on your background, which it took me a really long time. I would say I'm like old school camp for sure when it comes to shoes, even like road carbon. I was so behind that curve I was like not touching those and then once I touched them, I was like shit, like I was. I should have done this sooner. This is crazy.
Speaker 1:I got my first pair of carbon shoes this year and I feel the same way. I was like this is, this, is like it's especially at altitude, cause you're, you're a mammoth, so like yeah, I don't know, I just feel like it's a great, the great equalizer at altitude. It helps a ton, like for. I don't know, it helps a ton. How do you like mammoth? Is that a cool place to train and live?
Speaker 2:Mammoth. Is that a cool place to train and live. Mammoth is amazing. I love Mammoth. I feel like, if you, so there's a great community here. There's a lot of things I love about it. First, the community. There's a bunch of shredders who would never care to sign up for a race, you know, and I just like love that balance.
Speaker 2:I'm someone who has learned to love my competitive side, but there's been times where I have felt othered, you know, because I'm like, well, I want to sign up for a race. Why wouldn't you sign up for race, you know, um, but here it's like they make me feel loved for that and I love them for who they are too, um, and so, yeah, it's just a really, really cool mountain town. It is small. I mean, there's less than 9,000 people here, oh wow. So if you don't like small towns, this isn't for you. And then the terrain is just world-class. I can see why Tim Tolson has been up here for so long, and we have snow, obviously, but you can drive down to 5,000 feet in 30 minutes, which is incredible, and there's no traffic here, which is really nice, especially for being in California when you could say there's no traffic.
Speaker 1:that's a rare thing to be able to say.
Speaker 2:It's very rare. The only thing is there's not really a good food scene here at all. But it's something to look forward to. When you leave town You're like, oh, I can't wait to have some good food.
Speaker 1:What's the airport situation like? Like, is it easy for you to get out to races and stuff like that? Or is it always like living in jackson where you got to take 16 flights to get here, there and the other?
Speaker 2:uh, we have to drive three hours to reno okay, essentially it's not terrible it's not terrible.
Speaker 2:it depends on, like, when you're leaving. You know, sometimes you have to wake up at like three if it's a morning flight, um, or if you get in late, like that's a rough drive home. We do have the Bishop Airport and Mammoth Airport too. That are both really small. Bishop is money. I hope they like make that year round, but it's not because it connects to SFO and then SFO connects to everything. But, like, for example, I think it ends like two days before I get back from CCC, which is like such a bummer and the windows are very small. In the winter it's great, but yeah, the rest of the year is kind of a bummer.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And there's only one flight a day. That's the other thing. So if you're connecting somewhere, yeah, it leaves at like 10. So you could potentially miss the big connection to somewhere international.
Speaker 1:Interesting, all right, to somewhere. International Interesting, all right. So I kind of like the idea of it because it's just. It seems like it's just far enough away from everything to where you're kind of like in your own bubble and like tucked away, but also you can get out to go do things.
Speaker 2:It's not like silver, you're definitely in a bubble, for sure, and there's not a lot of people here, um, so, if you like, I mean I like it, cause you just like run and you don't see anyone for hours, and that's coming from someone who actually is like a pretty extroverted person, but it's just kind of nice, um, because it's like me, rod farvard, tim tolson and katie asmuth are like the pros in town which could, based on the population, it's pretty good. That's like four, four people, yeah, and tim is.
Speaker 1:Tim is actually south by 20 minutes, yeah oh, tim's not technical, he's, he's like, not man.
Speaker 2:He's in Crowley yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, shout out to Tim, I'm actually. So the reason I ask is I'm going out there, I'm supposed to pay as a buddy at that 200 mile race this summer.
Speaker 2:Oh nice.
Speaker 1:He's actually Michelino's and Siri's brother and he's a good friend of mine and, yeah, excited to see it because I've always wanted to put like Mammoth Trail Fest on the list, but it's usually I'm on the board of Pikes, so it's always usually the same weekend as Pikes, so it kind of conflicts. I have not gotten out to see it so yeah this year will be cool Late September to go see what it's all about.
Speaker 2:Well, you like really techie stuff, right.
Speaker 1:Mixed.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:My bread and butter races and like that, mountain classics and stuff like that. But I'm open to anything.
Speaker 2:I don't care okay, well, you should definitely come out before or, like stay after, because september is my favorite month here. It is so nice, um, and yeah, I think you'll just kind of be blown away by the trails. They're. They're incredible, I mean it's. I mean, it's the, it's wilderness and national forest. Yosemite is like 20 minutes from us. You could get on the jmt like in 10 minutes, depending on like where you're entering. Obviously some passes are longer, but it's like just wilderness after wilderness.
Speaker 1:It's super cool oh, wow, yeah, I'm excited to see it. I haven't really played like in the mountains. I've been out for broken arrow one year and that was it. So yeah, I'm definitely excited to go back and like see what just the sierra is all about and kind of play around. So yeah, one last thing before we get going ccc you must be so excited for that. That's a.
Speaker 2:That's a long way to go, that's a serious race right there yeah, it's like I think I finally have wrapped my head around that I am gonna do it and probably I think I'll be fit by then, like just based on how these steps and leaps are feeling since starting to run again. Um, yeah, I mean it honestly. There was a couple moments, I would say this spring, where I was like should I drop back down, cause I feel like I have this personal vendetta with OCC. It's like podium first year, super sick sixth place with a broken foot, and like I would really, really love to be the first female American to win that race, you know. But you know, I feel like I need to let that goal go for now and like I can always go back to it and try and do better than third place.
Speaker 2:Um, and so, yeah, that is one of my, I think, good qualities, and also kind of qualities that holds me back is like I'll get really fixated on a goal. Um, so the goal is shifted. I'm like, okay, well, how many people have podiumed on OCC and CCC? Let's see if we can do that and like make getting excited about that. Um, plus tony mccann and engvild casperson, who are like two of my best friends, are also running it, so that really, really, really excites me as well that'll be super fun.
Speaker 1:I feel like now. Obviously occ is a like a I don't know 60, 50 something percent of the ccc course, if I'm not correct. So you've probably seen a good chunk of the course. Then will you go out early? I knowerex always does like a house and stuff like that. Do you go out early and project the whole thing? Just make sure you know every step of it, or how does that work?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm someone who likes to see courses for sure, so I'm going to go out, but I'm actually going to go to Annecy and hang out with Tony and then we'll do like a little Italian mini camp and then I'll probably drop into sham like race week. I feel like I know the last part of the course pretty well and actually what I've heard from CCC is the parts where it does overlap with OCC are actually like the most technical, which is kind of funny to me now because, having run OCC a couple times, I'm like, oh, it gets more buttery than this, like that's my jam, because I I think I'm really good at runnable courses and I've made myself good at mountain courses. I don't think they come as natural, so hearing something is like more runnable than that Like really gets me fired up.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited. It's going to be a fun summer to follow along. Everybody is everybody's races yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sweet, everybody's racist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sweet, all right. Well, I think this is a good place to put a pin in it. I really want to do a long like a long, like one or two hour with you One of these days. Um, this is a super fun start and super fun conversation, definitely wishing you the best of luck at broken arrow and the rest of your summer, and it's going to be fun to see how things play out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1:I'm yeah, I'm stoked, sweet. Appreciate it, danny. Thank you so much for the time. Thanks, yeah, what's up, guys? It's summer and you know what that means. You're going to need a new pack hydration solution, bottle belt, you name it. Guess what Ultimate directions got you covered, guys, I don't know if you've been perusing on the ultimate direction site lately, but we've got two new vests that have just dropped.
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Speaker 1:Like I said, it's summer, it's broken arrow week, it's crazy. The vibes are high, the stoke is high. You're going to need a new vest vest. You're going to need a hydration solution. Like I said, go to Ultimate Direction. They've got you covered 25% off with the code steepstuffpod and you are all set out the door. So, guys, enjoy your week. It's Broken Arrow week, go crazy, go wild. Guess what? Next week is Trail Con and then we are in Western States. This is the best few weeks of our sport. So it's wild, thank you.
