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Sam Lewis - Pre Broken Arrow 46K Interview
Sam Lewis brings a wealth of experience to the starting line of the Broken Arrow 46K, having represented Team USA three times internationally and competed in the 23K version of this iconic mountain race twice before. In this compelling conversation, she shares the meticulous preparation that has her feeling "in the best shape of my life" heading into one of the season's most competitive events.
Training from her temporary base in Boulder, Colorado has given Lewis the mountain-specific preparation needed for Broken Arrow's demanding terrain. Working with long-time coach Travis Fleck, she's compiled her highest-ever training volume while maintaining the physical health that's become the hallmark of their eight-year partnership. "He's always thinking about what I'm doing not just today, but five years from now," Lewis explains, highlighting the sustainable approach that's kept her performing at an elite level.
Lewis reveals her tactical approach to the challenging two-loop course, describing herself as a hunter who patiently waits to strike on the second loop. "I like to hunt down my prey," she says with understated confidence, drawing on lessons learned from aggressive European race starts that left her frustrated. This balanced strategy reflects both physical preparation and philosophical grounding—Lewis holds a PhD in philosophy of sport and embraces the ancient Greek concept of "arete" (pursuing personal excellence) rather than fixating on placements.
The conversation delves into equipment choices, including On's new Cloud Ultra Pro trail shoe that Lewis describes as "game-changing," nutrition strategies for mountain ultras, and the profound meaning she finds in representing her country. "Being on Team USA is one of the greatest honors of my life," she reflects, while maintaining perspective about the exceptional depth of American talent.
Most compelling are Lewis's insights on mental resilience, drawn from races like the 2023 Verbier Marathon where she battled severe stomach issues yet finished. "It's not if it's going to happen in these ultra races, it's when," she notes about inevitable low points. This hard-earned wisdom, combined with her physical preparation and measured approach, makes Lewis a formidable competitor at Broken Arrow and beyond as she looks toward OCC at UTMB later this summer.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Lariello, bringing you another Baroquin Arrow 46k preview episode, this one with Miss Samantha Lewis. Super excited to catch up with Sam. If you're not familiar with that name, you absolutely should be. Sam was on the short course Team USA in Chiang Mai for Team USA in 2022. She's also got a ton of experience at this race, having raced back in 2022 and 2023, just doing the one lap for the 23K and taking top 20 finishes in both results. Super stoked to catch up with Sam, learn a little bit more about her race, about her and just the plans for what she's got planned for race day. So, wishing her the absolute best of luck and I hope you guys enjoy this one Without further ado, none other than Miss Sam Lewis. Sam Lewis, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:Good, how are you? I'm doing?
Speaker 1:great, super excited to have a chat. Obviously, we're doing some of these Broken Arrow pre-race interviews and stuff like that and it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2:It's always nice to meet new faces and folks that I haven't had on the podcast yet. So you were definitely one of them and someone was very stoked to have a chat with. Yeah, I know. Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know Appreciate it. So what's the stoke level for Broken Arrow? We're going to be running 2 laps around Palisades pretty soon. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm so stoked it's going to be absolutely insane. It's, um I mean, if you've been out to the broken arrow um event before like it's a version of UTMB, right Like the American version. So it's just, the excitement level is insane. The fields are out of this world, which is just so cool and um, what better place to like line up with your friends and like just have a day out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. It's a little crazy this year. Like it's nuts, that it's you know. We have our selection races for team USA and then we've got the golden trail series. Like it's like all eyes are kind of on on these, on like the weekend this year. So it's going to be crazy. I, in fact I just got some information that, uh, we'll see what happens with the VK, happens with the VK, but like it's supposed to be a hundred mile winds at the top of the VK course on on Friday.
Speaker 1:So shit's getting wild, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be a fun weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago they had to change the 23 K course Um, cause on Sunday the winds were just too um too sketchy up top, so that does happen. And then we got to glissade down the snow a couple of years ago, so they made it work and it was great, but yeah, yeah, they do.
Speaker 1:I mean fantastic job, fantastic job. Um, all right. So getting into the, getting into the race a little bit, or getting into your block and training and things like that, like how has it been going? How do you feel going into this race?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm super excited. Um, I've been in Boulder the last month training, um, this is home, so it was just really nice to just be back with the family but then also to get um to be here in the mountains. Uh, I live in Moscow, Idaho, and we do have um I mean, Idaho's got an amazing trail system. I've done actually a very poor job of exploring Idaho. Um, but Moscow itself has like a local mountain. That's great that it's right there and it gets up to 5,000 feet.
Speaker 2:But, um, I think it was just nice to be in Boulder to have a little bit more um specificity in my training and, um, I don't know, and it's like fun to just do some different exploring and everything, but feeling really good. Um, the volume and that I put in over this last, like all spring, is the most I probably ever have I've ever done. And um, I've been healthy. I had like a little minor. I pulled my hammy on a run at the end of April. I just super woman did a couple of times and um, just finding my trail legs again apparently and uh, so I had to take a week off from that, but uh, rebounded really nicely and everything's been pretty smooth since.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love to hear it. It's always fun to hear, like when folks are just like healthy going through. And you know, I feel like it was a little bit weird, especially more on the front. I'm in Colorado Springs, so like on the front range we had an like abnormally warm, kind of like summer, sorry, abnormally warm winter. So there was a lot of year round training for people and I saw a lot of people get injured, including myself, and I was like man, I got a little greedy. So it's always nice to see folks like have like successful builds and go into these races like healthy, especially now that you know the season's here.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I I work with um. My coach is Travis Fleck, who's the director of cross country and track and field at Colorado Macy university. He was at university of Idaho the last 10 years and um, he was actually my coach at Oregon state, so we go way back. But um, he definitely like we work super well together and the approach has been. I mean, there's um longevity in their approach, so we've been working together now for eight years and I think he's just really smart. He's always thinking about what I'm doing, not just like today, but five years from now and everything. So, thankfully, I'm the healthiest I've ever been since working with him, so that's also exciting.
Speaker 1:I love to hear it. Love to hear it. I want to pivot a little bit. You're, I think, other than David Norris. You might be the only on athlete that I've had on the pod. Yeah, Tell me about this new shoe that they just dropped. It's like the cloud ultra something or other. It's like the new trail super shoe. Maybe talk about that for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's um, the cloud ultra pro. It's insane. Um, I've been running in it now for, I think, a couple years. I think I first got it at UTMB a couple years ago, but I think it's going to change the game. If I'm going to be honest like um, I mean to be fair, I haven't run in a lot of the other like uh super shoes from the different brands, but it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2:The shoe was designed specifically like with UTMB in mind, which is super cool. Um, it like you can with between the foam and the plate and everything like. It's definitely a little bit of an adjustment Cause I think the stack height is like higher and so if it's really um techie terrain like, I think there's an aspect of like you just have to learn how to run in the shoe a little bit. Um, sometimes your feet go for a ride that you're not expecting, but once you kind of like have that learning period, it's um, like it's the only shoe I want to race in, the only shoe I want to run in. Um, especially when you get to like sections and courses that are super like flowy flat. You hit the asphalt and you know, and sometimes in those points in the races like you're just dead, but there's so much rebound in those shoes Like um, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:That's amazing to hear. I'm excited to see them. I haven't like like seen one in person yet. So excited to see one in the wild and see what they're all about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty cool, yeah yeah. No it's going to be. It's me Perfect for broken arrow and yeah, it's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 1:That's what I was going to ask you. I would assume that sounds like it's going to be the race issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah no, for that's literally the only thing I use.
Speaker 1:So yeah, cool, cool Cool. Let's get into course specific stuff. I know you've taken a couple of laps around around broken arrow before um, based off of my research, you've only done the 23 K. Is that right before? Yeah, so this will be the first, first two, lap one.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm doing 36 K. Yeah, how do you feel about?
Speaker 1:that I wanted more.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to do more. One lap wasn't enough anymore.
Speaker 1:More suffering, right. More suffering the better. Yeah, it's interesting these two-loop courses. I know you've gotten Technically, you've done two loops before, Because what was it? 2023, it was a two-loop because of the weather, right.
Speaker 2:Oh, that is correct. Yes, so we didn't go up high, so you're right. So I have done two loops. I'm a version of two loops.
Speaker 1:In theory. The only reason I ask is because these two loop courses get a little weird right. It's almost like there's more strategy involved, where the person leading the first loop might not be the person winning the race overall, like sometimes there's epic blow-ups occur and broken arrow is kind of like synonymous with epic blow-ups and a lot of those well, and when you add like a selection race to it and just all the hype around it, like you never know what's gonna happen I.
Speaker 1:I fully predict blow-ups. It's gonna be especially like I don't know. After commentating on sunip, I was like damn, these people go out so hard and like it's, it's just crazy, like it's just stupidly fast. Now, like up front at these races, do you have any like what's your strategy? Are you gonna like hang back on the first lap and then pick people off? Are you super, super aggressive Like I've never? I don't know your racing strategy. So, or how you erase some people are very aggressive and some people kind of hang back. Like what do you like to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I like to hunt down my prey, Um, so I want to definitely save some for that second lap, but I think and like you said, uh, broken arrow is, um, notorious for big blowups, and because it's a selection race and there's just a lot of hype, I think that that could be a big factor.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest thing that I want to make sure that I do is run my own race, and I think sometimes, when there's like you know, it's exciting, the nerves are probably high People tend to maybe start making decisions that aren't based on their own, like races, and that totally makes sense, based on the environment. So I'm just going to try to I'm very honest with my effort in that first lap, trying to run my own race and then just make sure I have enough on that second lap, because, uh, it's really fun running people down, um, and I think that that's, um, that second lap, that second climb, is going to be. You have some in you. It's going to be. You can make up a lot of time on. That is my, is my thought.
Speaker 1:I think it's honestly, I think it's such a smart approach because, like, I think if you erase it aggressively from the gun, it's like almost like a weird balance right, like if you don't put yourself in the race, then you're going to, you're not going to find yourself in the race, but also it's like putting yourself just enough in the race to where you're not over your, your, you're not pushing too hard, but also like kind of hanging back enough, so when those blowups ahead of you occur, you can just pick those people off.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's that weird, it's a fine little dance, well, and it's hard now too, because these races are so competitive and they are, they start so fast and like I've been wrestling with like I don't want to watch the race, like run away from me, right, because like sometimes if you're not in it then and then you never get in it. So I've definitely kind of wrestled with that. But, um, yeah, I've just decided that at the end of the day, like I kind of have taken some more aggressive approaches in some races in Europe over the last couple of years and I got frustrated throughout the race just because it was I went out too aggressive and realized, like you know, I just kind of a little bit, and so I think, just for me to have like to pursue my best on the day, I need to run within myself and be ready for some fun on that second lap.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's super smart, definitely the way to go. It's funny. I was just thinking about, like, have you ever raced a Cirque series race?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny. Like those, I feel like those types of races I did a bunch of them last year like, taught me how to race in a lot of ways, whereas, like, you have to put yourself in the race, if not, it will get away from you. Yeah, and I was like oh, maybe like a putting too much of that into a 50 K might cause blowups. I don't know like too much of that Um, like that aggressiveness. I don't know Um, I don't know where I'm going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like five hours versus an hour, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, what's the? So it's going to be kind of a cool day, from at least what the weather forecast is pointing to. Now, like, what's the nutrition strategy going to be for you? Do you and also do you adjust your nutrition for cool versus hot? Like, how do you approach that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say I'm still like in the big learning phase with nutrition, cause last year was the first year, um that I kind of did my my my toes into like the 50 realm. So I am still on that journey of figuring out nutrition. But I so I think the biggest difference that I make between like um cooler versus warmer climates is just like how much I'm like drinking. I wouldn't say that I drink like a ton of water to begin with, but if it's warm I definitely do so. Um, I won't change the nutrition plan as a result of it being colder. I just don't anticipate drinking as much water Um, so I'm still gonna. I think I'm still start with two bottle or like two flasks um at the beginning of the race, but I might only be changing out one halfway Um, I'll have the extra one there just in case.
Speaker 1:Smart. Are you more of a belt person or a vest person?
Speaker 2:Vest. Well, I love like on's best is nice and like snug and um just become one with the vest. But I like um I used to use like the naked belt and on has their own belt. But I just cannot figure out. I'm just not, I don't know. For whatever reason it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Interesting. No, that's interesting. I I didn't. You know, I'm usually like a belt person. I've never I like, I don't know. If I feel like I don't like being constricted, it's the constriction part, I don't know In a vest that kind of no totally. But no, I mean, I think it's a smart way to go because you could just carry literally everything. Um, it's just I don't know, are you going to be crewed by anybody, are you just getting, or is it going to be just a solo effort?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll have. Um, my parents are coming with me, which is like they're my cheerleaders and absolutely love it. They travel all over the world with me, so super lucky on that front. Um, and then my auntie mate, meg McKenzie, is going to be there as well. I mean on crew, but Meg's going to help as well, so Meg and my parents will be at halfway.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, super cool, super cool. I couldn't think of a better. Yeah, it's a cool, cool way to go. Um, all right, I got to ask the big question what's the, what's the expectation, like? What do you want to happen out of this race? Is it more selection for team MSA? Are you thinking more about podium, like?
Speaker 2:or chasing your best day, like, how do you approach this? Or chasing your best day Like, how do you approach this? Um, yeah, so I think the biggest thing for me is like, um, and I I work with a mental performance coach, shannon Thompson, so, like, expectations is something that I think have honestly only gotten in my way in the past, and so the way that I like to view all my races is that, especially now, cause the fields are so deep and, um, everyone is just so amazing, so it's a super cool experience to be able to race, like against the best in the world all the time. Um, but I think it's just saying it's pursuing my best on the day and see how I, you know how everything shakes out.
Speaker 2:I do think that I'm in probably, arguably, the best shape of my life. I can't control what anyone else is going to do on the day. I can only like hope to, like give my best effort and if that's winning to 10th, to 15th, whatever that is, if I crossed the line, knowing that I did everything that I could on the day and pursued um the ancient Greeks use this term, which is to pursue one's personal excellence, and so, um, that's something in like my uh PhD studies in the philosophy of sport is a term we use a lot, and so if I can pursue like my arete, then I've done what I need to do on the day. So, obviously, like, top three is worlds and then their resume spots after that and I'd love to, you know, be in contention and we'll just again, we'll just see how it all kind of shakes out.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's an amazing answer and I'm totally stealing that Arete phrase.
Speaker 2:You're not stealing it from me, you're stealing it from the ancient Greeks. So we're good, that's right.
Speaker 1:We're good, we're good. Oh, man, let me ask you this If it is the day that you want it to be and you have an amazing day out there, what would it mean for you to make Team USA oh?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I've um. So I've been on team USA three times now Um, the 2019 world mountain running championships, uh, the 2019 NACAC mountain running championships, and then the 2022, um world and trail mountain running championships. Being on team USA is like one of the greatest honors of my life. Um, there is nothing quite like wearing your country's like uniform and being able to be a part of that team, so it would be incredible. I'm always grateful for an opportunity to wear a Team USA jersey. I know that, regardless of who makes that team, it is going to be one hell of a team Like. It's going to be absolutely incredible, and I think that there's a lot of peace in knowing that whoever makes the team is just going to absolutely crush it at Worlds, and that's super cool. And to even be get to be a part of that on Saturday, whether or not I'm on that team um, I'm just super excited for that opportunity.
Speaker 1:I love it. Is there any? I mean this might be a hard question to ask and maybe a little redundant, but is there any like experience Cause you are so experienced like man you might have one of the best resumes from Team USA going into this 46K, which is kind of awesome. What experience do you think you could pull on to have the day you want? I know it's kind of a hard question.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to throw you that one, but I don't know. It's kind of crazy that you've competed at the highest level, the highest level of our sports. There's got to be something there.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I mean I can think of oh man, there's. I learned so many things from so many different races, I think in these granted, I know that the broken arrow 46K is not quite an ultra, but this ultra-esque racing a lot of things can happen and I've had some really rough races. I was in the um in 2023,. I was in the Verbier marathon. It was a UTMB qualifier and, um, I just started projectile vomiting at like 12 miles in and I couldn't stop and so like I was like trying to still eat and drink because I was like, holy shit, I still have 18 miles to go and or whatever it was. Um, and I was in a really rough place and somehow still finished the race. And I was in a really rough place and somehow still finished the race and I was in a low spot for a really long time. I remember coming up to the last aid station with like six miles to go, and I see my mom and she doesn't know how it's going and I'm like I'm not having any fun, and then I proceeded to just projectile vomit in front of her, like over the bridge crossing. Basically, the point being is I hit some really low points in races and I think the biggest thing I've learned is it's not if it's going to happen in these ultra races, it's when it's going to happen. I think we all hit those and I think it's just whether we can work through them. So I'm going to definitely lean on those experiences I've had and just knowing that like it's never going to go the way, the way that you exactly expect it to go. But that doesn't mean it can't be its own beautiful experience and um, yeah, I don't know. I'm just again just super excited for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think a lot of ultras are just, yeah, it's about troubleshooting as you're going and whether or not you can process through that. So, like I've been in races, I remember man in the Moab marathon in 2021, I didn't feel good until mile 19. So, yeah, it was super far in and I remember that race started and everyone got out so fast and I'm like, do they know we're running a marathon? And um, but you know, I just worked like I think halfway I was like maybe in 10th and then, like I worked my way up and the only person then I think like mile 19, who's in front of me, was Allie Mack and I was like oh shit and so, and then I felt good for the next 5k and then felt like shit, but like, um, yeah, I don't know, it's gonna be fun and it's uh, it'll be an adventure regardless yeah, no, not no the doubt.
Speaker 1:I love to hear all some of these like race stories. That's good stuff, la max, good friend of mine. So it's always fun to hear uh like war stories from these races. What else, uh, what do you got planned for the rest of the season? What else you doing besides the 46k?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I am, um, I'm pacing aaron clark at states, so I'm so, so excited. Um, I've actually never been to states in person before. I've always watched the live stream, so to be able to experience that in person is going to be amazing. And then to help a friend while you know, while we're at it like I can't think of anything better um, and on is sponsoring trail con, so it'll be really cool to just be there for the whole week, and so we'll have, yeah, pacing Aaron I'm not sure exactly if I'm doing like the 16 or 18 mile leg, uh for her and then I, um, I have OCC at the end of August. I probably won't actually race after in between um, broken arrow and OCC, just because I, um, I work at a running camp and this steam mountain running camp in Oregon, which is the middle two weeks of July, and so we have like a fun camp race up there that I do each week. But, um, with just some of the different travel I have going on, I probably won't race and just get in some really good training up in the mountains and um, yeah, so it's going to be be, it's gonna be super fun, like once, once I leave tomorrow.
Speaker 2:The summer just doesn't stop and I'll be in chamonix from like um july 31 through september 1st, so I'll have a full month there. I know I, I I told myself last year because I was like there two weeks before occ and I could just tell like over the course of those two weeks, just like um, again, um again, I felt like I approached my training smart. I didn't go too crazy or anything, so it's easier to do when you're in the Alps, but I just could feel like my legs adjusted to and my body adjusted to being in those mountains and on the terrain and I was like, oh my God, like imagine if I spent just like a little bit more time here and how much better I could feel. So, um, yeah, and my whole, like all the on humans are going to be out there, um, we're like kind of all rented out the hub, um, and so it's just gonna be an on party, which will be great.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice, oh yeah, no, you guys have a great team too. I mean I've talked now to David Norris. I know Jeff Colt from a previous team Like we were on the ultimate direction team together back in the day, so it's good people like what, and Kilgore is an interesting cat. So very, very cool team you have there.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, they're phenomenal yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Big time.
Speaker 1:I just want to say thank you so much for coming on Um wish you the absolute best on rate or best of luck on race day, and it're going to need a new pack hydration solution bottle belt, you name it. Guess what? Ultimate Direction's got you covered, guys, I don't know if you've been perusing on the Ultimate Direction site lately, but we've got two new vests that have just dropped. That's going to be the UltraVest 12 liter and the RaceVest 6 liter, in two beautiful colorways. And you know what? Guess what? We also dropped a quiver. Finally, the quiver is here. The quiver is there. Get it on the website right now. Use code SteepStuffPod for 25% off. All of these things are already extremely affordably priced. I think Ultimate Direction does an amazing job at their pricing to make it affordable for athletes of all economic abilities. And guess what? You're going to get yourself an additional 25% off by using code steep stuff pod.
Speaker 1:Like I said, it's summer, it's broken arrow week, it's crazy. The vibes are high, the stoke is high. You're going to need a new vest, You're going to need a hydration solution. Like I said, go to ultimate direction. They've got you covered 25% off with the code steep stuff pod and you are all set out the door. So, guys, enjoy your week. It's broken arrow week, go crazy, go wild. Guess what. Next week is trail con, and then we are in Western States. This is the best few weeks of our sport. So it's wild, thank you.
