The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Lindsay Allison & Ryan Becker| Speedgoat 50K Pre Race Interview
Ryan Becker and Lindsay Allison join the Steep Stuff Podcast fresh off their selection to the US Trail Running World Championship team, bringing listeners a candid glimpse into the realities of high-level mountain running while balancing demanding careers.
The conversation begins with Ryan's breakthrough performance at Broken Arrow 46K—a victory made more remarkable by the circumstances surrounding it. Working 70-80 hours weekly at a new job, Ryan nearly withdrew from the race entirely just days before. This work pressure paradoxically created the mental space for his best performance yet. Meanwhile, Lindsay shares her struggle with an unexpected asthma attack during her own Broken Arrow race, demonstrating the unpredictable challenges elite athletes face even with perfect preparation.
What truly distinguishes this episode is the honest discussion about the psychological aspects of achievement in ultrarunning. Lindsay articulates the surprising difficulty of "recalibrating" after reaching long-held goals: "Having been an underdog for seven years, now my mindset has shifted. Where do I get my motivation now?" This refreshing vulnerability reveals how success brings its own unique pressures and identity questions that athletes rarely discuss publicly.
Unlike many professional ultrarunners who can spend weeks training on course before major events, both Ryan and Lindsay must fit their world-class performances around full-time careers. Their strategies for maximizing limited training time and their practical approach to race preparation offer valuable insights for listeners navigating similar balance challenges.
As they look ahead to the grueling Speed Goat 50K with its 10,000+ feet of elevation gain, the couple shares course insights, nutrition strategies, and reflections on how the increasing depth of competition is transforming the sport. Their genuine love for mountain running shines through every segment of this conversation.
Join us for this fascinating discussion about finding excellence in both career and ultrarunning, and discover how two of America's top mountain runners approach the delicate balance between professional ambition, athletic achievement, and finding joy in the journey.
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What is up, boys and girls, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, James Lauriello, and I'm so excited I am bringing you guys the goods today. I'm pumped for this one speed goat 50 K pre-race episode, this one with Lindsay Allison and Ryan Becker. Um, really excited to have both of them on the podcast. I caught up with Lindsay and Ryan and not too far from removed from the news that broke that, uh, they were both going to be on the world's team. Uh, both short course athletes. Um, both going to be running in culture course and marathon distance.
Speaker 1:Um at worlds in Canfrank in September. Um, that's not all we talked about. Um, we talked a lot about Ryan's broken arrow, Lindsay's broken arrow as well. Um, the excitement for worlds. Um, the excitement for speed goat. We talked a lot about the speed goat course preparation. This'll be both of their second time. Um doing the lap around. Um, I guess you could say speed go, or you could say the snowbird course, if you will. Um, but yeah, just a really fun episode. Uh, lots of good stuff in here. I think you guys are going to take a lot away from this one. One of them probably my favorite pre-race interview. Not to you know, yeah, not to disparage anyone else, but this one was this one's gonna be hard to beat. So, without further ado, um hope you guys enjoy this one. Ryan becker and lindsey allison it's time. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Lindsay Allison and Ryan Becker, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, guys?
Speaker 2:Thanks, thanks for having us back on, yeah this is a fun one.
Speaker 1:I've never done one, uh, I've never had like a couple on at the same time, and I've also I don't think I've ever had like three people on in one episode. So this is a lot of firsts for me this is pretty, uh pretty good stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, obviously we're having you guys on debrief for a few things. Um, first off, congratulations to both of you for making the world's team, which is super exciting. Uh, talk a little bit about that and then we'll also get into some a little. You know, quick chat on, uh, the speed code 50k which is coming up this upcoming weekend nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds like a plan yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So first off, um, uh, do we want to start? Uh, we'll start with world's congratulations on making the world seem, both of you, obviously. Ryan, you had a lights out performance, um, broken arrow, we'll talk a little bit about that. And lindsey, you got on, uh, via application as well. What's the, what's the stoke level for you guys in the house having both of you made the team, which is really excited.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of couples on the on the world's team this year yeah, I think, um, after broken arrow, yeah, it was kind of it was a little surreal and, um, those next couple days were like, yeah, really awesome.
Speaker 2:It wasn't really sinking in, um, and I was kind of, yeah, I just felt like there were a couple other goals to get through and then, but then I was starting to like get excited about it. And then, um, we found out, I guess like around a week or so before it was announced. So having Lindsay make the team also and then we really started planning it together was was when it started getting like a little more real. And so, yeah, because we do most I mean, most of the races we do are together anyway. So it would have been kind of weird and Lindsay was talking about coming out anyway if she didn't make it, and so, but it was, yeah, it's obviously a lot more exciting to have both of us racing it. So, yeah, we're pretty excited and it feels real and also like true to how we typically do things, that we're both doing it also.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's cool too because, like when I had conversations with both of you, like it seemed like it was kind of on your radar but not like Lindsay seemed very focused on CCC. You seem particularly focused on possibly doing Leadville this year, so it seemed like it was not necessarily like in the peripheral, and then it goes and happens and it kind of changes the entire flow of the summer. Lindsay, I'll ask you this first, Are you still going to be doing CCC or how does that you are going to not do it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm not going to do CCC anymore, but yeah, like you said, it's totally disrupted the year, but in the best way. I think the plan for now is to do OCC. I was able to switch down in distance, which is really awesome, so that'll be the plan and then roll into two worlds after that. But I'm definitely it's bittersweet because I'm really, I was really excited for CCC, um, but I think my you know, my thought process was like I think I can get back into CCC worlds is seems much more like a once in a lifetime type opportunity. So, um, yeah, I'm we both. I think we both feel like super grateful to have the opportunity and feel like got to take advantage while we can.
Speaker 1:It's so cool. Um, lindsay, specifically for you, like I know, you had a kind of a rough day at broken arrow. You had, uh, you were pretty candid on Instagram talking about some asthmatic problems or breathing issues. Um, it seems like you've able been able to get past that, having a great race. Um, most recently it was the Teton mountain runs. You ran right. Um, what's going on with that? Are you feel much better over the hump? What do you think?
Speaker 3:I have no idea what happened. To be honest, um, I so I I have asthma. Honestly, it like very rarely acts up. I have had it in a couple of races, but typically, like I take my inhaler and it resolves pretty immediately. So when it happened at Broken Arrow, I wasn't that worried. I was just like, oh darn, but like I'll just use my inhaler and it'll be fine, and it just like didn't work, which was very new and not ideal. Um, so that was the first, I'd say that was the first like asthma attack that I haven't been able to control. Um, which was definitely like alarming and yeah it was stressful and scary in the moment.
Speaker 3:Um, since I've been fine, I, I, I, I feel like the broken arrow. I'm not making excuses, I, I don't know what happened, but I think that the combination of like it being super windy the day before the race, like it was like 80 mile an hour that's why they switched the vk to the shorter version, um, and it was really dusty, I don't think it's, it's it hadn't rained in a really long time in tahoe, so I'm I just wonder, like there was just a lot of stuff in the air. But that's just to say that, like, since coming back to Telluride, the air seems better here. Like I haven't had many issues, so, or haven't had any issues, so I'm hopeful that was just like a one time blip and, yeah, at Tetons I was totally fine. There's no, no breathing issues, so I'm hoping that was just a one-off, like odd circumstantial situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it probably was. I mean especially even the fact that, like I know you said, the air has been better, but like didn't you, you guys, have like wildfires not too far from there too?
Speaker 3:So if that hasn't really bothered you, then I'm pretty cautious in the in the smoke honestly, um, but yeah, I think, probably the combination of like going out hard with like the weird air, with it was really cold that morning on broken arrow, so I think you can at least control the variables in training, like just don't push that hard or you know, whatever it might be, so, um, but I'm I'm just hoping that speed goat has good air this year, cause it doesn't always have good air, honestly in Utah. So, um, we'll see, but but yeah, I have to think it was like a one-off.
Speaker 1:Cool, cool, cool. Well, wish you the best of luck on that. I'm sure it's just a one-off and you're good. Uh, ryan, I, I, I gotta ask you, like when you cross that finish line, like all the emotions it seemed, like it seemed I was so excited for you just seeing the video and I was like, damn, dude, like you you got one. Like that was really exciting and such a like stout performance, um, like everybody knew you were capable of that. How did it feel for you, like when you actually did cross the finish line, like you can you put, I mean and it wasn't even.
Speaker 2:It wasn't. I had to hold it back until the finish line. Like I kind of knew on the second lap, um, like halfway down the single track, I mean even leaving Shirley Canyon, I was pretty sure that was going to climb out of Shirley Canyon faster than most people on the second lap, even if I was losing time to David and Eli. And then if I could just survive the single track and get to the road, it would pretty much be like locked up. But you never know what anything can happen. But yeah, there's like a couple of road switchbacks where I like almost lost it coming down into the finish line and I didn't really I didn't. There was no one that I knew on the line there but or on the road coming in, but there was enough people cheering that I was like starting to kind of tear up a little bit and then, um, yeah, coming through, like where the crew zone is right before you, like make the hard left to go to the finish line. There's like a lot of people cheering and I was like I was already on the brink. So, getting to the line, I was already pretty much in tears and so, yeah, crossing the line and actually like having it locked in 100% was, yeah, just not overwhelming, but I kind of just like allowed myself to really feel all of that. And yeah, I think I have been like at that fitness level in the past, kind of like you mentioned. But either you just like something happens on the race day or or you know you feel that way in training and then you don't get the taper right or just things happen Like I've been there before but I haven't been able to like make it all work on the day, like it happened on such an important day for it to all go right on.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it was pretty awesome and and it was, I mean, my, my thinking going into this race, even when we were in that airport flying out, like I didn't expect to be able to make the team in the 46, I thought it was my chances were better in the vk, um. And so we were in the airport like kind of stuck waiting on like plane stuff to get out of denver. And that's when we got the email that the vk had been shortened by half and I was like, oh shit, like that's my, that was my chance to make the team. I'm not going to make it on a half vk. Like a full vk is kind of the only thing. So I had already like mentally adjusted to be like you're likely not going to make the team, we're still going to like try as hard as you can in the vk.
Speaker 2:But the 46k was always kind of just like a bonus and so, yeah, going into that race, I like on the start line and even the first you know three or four miles through the woods before you start climbing, I I was pretty far back in the group and didn't feel amazing and I was kind of like, yep, like that's what you get.
Speaker 2:You like tried to, you tried to, you went too hard in the 20 minute effort. You're not a 20 minute guy anymore and and now you're going to pay the price and but but yeah, when we started climbing it's not even that I like felt good, I just was surprised that I was climbing better than most people on that day. And then, yeah, I just got lucky that things did come around. And yeah, it's weird because it didn't feel like a breakout performance where you're just like God, I'm just like ripping up every single one of these climbs or I'm just like ripping these downhills in a way that is new to me. It just felt like normal running and it just happened to be faster than in years past, I guess.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Noah must've been, I guess, close to you or near you. I had him on the podcast a few weeks ago and he said he was kind of talking about your climbing and you had made a move on a particular climb and he did not follow you. He chose not to Noah Williams and he was like that's either he just thought it was, I think his words were ballsy, but he was, he was interesting and he's like Ryan stuck it. So like, was there a particular move you made on a specific climb or were you just climbing extremely well and just happened to get with eli and um david and just kind of because it seemed like you guys had got significant separation?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was. I mean through the woods. I'm not sure if noah was right in front of me or not, but like, when you come out of the woods there's like basically two pitches that are pretty steep, that are like people either are like climbers, there are like surviving those climbs. Um, right there, and I am like I consider myself more of a climber than a descender, definitely, um, and so probably I was like in fifth or sixth coming out of the woods. Um, I'm not sure if it was eli or who exactly was leading out of the woods there, but we were all. I mean, we're all. There's probably 20 guys like all basically in a line or packed up at that point.
Speaker 2:And then I think Josh had gone around and he was leading through the first steep part and I don't know exactly if it was Eli or David. I think David actually held himself back a little bit on the first two climbs, eli or David? I think David actually held himself back a little bit on the first two climbs, so probably Eli got on him. And then what often happens similar in bike racing is like people are losing the wheel and so I just like, would I probably went around three guys to get on that group, um, and then we all came over the first climb, or not we all, but like the three of us, probably I think it must've been Eli just Sharon, eli and myself came around the first climb. So maybe that was the move that he was kind of referring to, but I wasn't making a move there. I was likely just covering a gap that was not being covered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Gotcha, gotcha. Well, dude, you know not to quote yourself, but like that's, that's not pro Jason anymore, that's as pro as it gets. So, um yeah, just congrats.
Speaker 3:I think also just to interject like um, I, I think that it's really important to realize like Ryan was so stressed going into this race, like not running stress, like life stress. Um, he just started this new job. It's been insane. Like he's working like 70 or 80 hours a week. Like this is like next level type hours, um, and I think like he wasn't sure he was going to even go to the race, like literally two days before. He was like I think I need to like bail, like I can't do this, um, and I think like it just I've always thought this like that when you have other stuff going on in your life or there's like a bigger stress or something else that you often do like find your best performances, because it just feels like such a gift to like be there and to race and to like push yourself in this like very just physical way, as opposed to like all the mental stress that goes on with life, um, and so I think like those circumstances made it seem like oh gosh, you know this probably isn't going to go that well, but I also think at the same time that like might have been why it went so well, like yeah, you were just so zoned in on, like I get to like only focus on this one thing, um, and just push myself as literally as hard as I can.
Speaker 3:I don't even know if that's what was going through your head, but I do think it's important to like see that side of it because, um, yeah, I think the like life, life circumstances, always play a role, but they're not always talked about, and I think this was like a really interesting example, or like interesting instance, cause it really was like pretty tumultuous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even I mean we were like our flight was delayed like I think probably five or six hours, our first flight to denver. And this actually happened. The same last year when we were going to broken arrow again, where we and I mean we got we got into tahoe probably at 11 30 before the vk, 11 30 at night before the vk. And that same thing happened last year and the vk went kind of well. But like last year, but it was still.
Speaker 2:I was like, well, if I cause, like I told you, like I was kind of like my, I thought my chances were in the VK. So I was like, well, if I'm going to miss the VK, should I just drive back to Telluride right now, because I'm not going to make it in the four to six and I'm already too stressed. And yeah, all this thing, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Like two days before, like my parents came out and they're like and I and I told them a month before so it would have been in May that I was like, hey, I know you have like accommodations and plane tickets and everything, lindsay's gonna be a broken arrow.
Speaker 2:I can't commit and say that I'm gonna be a broken arrow, like you should still go out, and my brother was coming out too. I was like you guys can have a great trip, but I really don't know if I'm going to be able to make it out. And even the week of I was like, yeah, like my, my flights are booked and everything. But there's like a really good chance that I'm just going to bail at the last minute because work is just going to blow up to leave on Wednesday, but we were like oh, we definitely can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's, yeah, there's no way to leave on Wednesday. Yeah, it was, it was a mess, um, but yeah, that's true. And this, this race, was kind of the first time too, where in the past, kind of like not getting coverage but you would just take time away from work which feels like very like only on you. But like in this new role, I did need like support, coverage and I had kind of this new member on the team and he was like really stoked for me and he was like like hey, like I want you to do this, like I want you to go out and like race. Well, and and even the night before he was like really, really the night before I left, where he was going to work that next Thursday we were just talking and he kept being like. He was like. He was like think of me when you're out there. He was like if you're like when things are like going bad, he was like, or things are like getting hard, he was like just think of me and be like like I can dig a little deeper, because Kenny that's his name he's like because Kenny is like here, like he's covering you, like, and it was one of the first moments.
Speaker 2:And there are other members of the team too, of my team at work, who were like really stoked for me to like try to make this.
Speaker 2:Like I was really kind of downplaying the significance of like going to this, but but everyone else, no, you like really have to like try for this like you have to like focus, like get yourself excited and and that was kind of the first time I'd ever gone to a race and being like it does feel like I'm racing for more than just myself also, um, so I don't know how much that, if that played into it at all, but I, I I did think about them at different points during the race, where usually I I don't feel that bad on climbs, but there's a couple downhills where I'll start feeling sorry for myself and I'm like getting dropped or something, and I just remember thinking, like you know, suck it up. Like you're gonna have to come back to these like 20 people and like let them know how it goes. Like you need need to focus right now and and try to run a little faster.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, that's so crazy too. Like it almost what wasn't. Like the fact that like you almost didn't do it and the fact that you'd like you know that's so crazy, dude, do you think it? And maybe it did unlock something like with you, like with the fact that the pressure was a little bit more.
Speaker 2:There was more to it, more behind it, more pushing you yeah maybe that unlocked something mentally and I think, even because I've been talking with a couple of um people around just like racing or racing, more racing, these bigger races and everyone, because, again, like going back to that instagram post and that's kind of like been a little bit of this like transition into transition in my own running, which is like taking it not less seriously but with like a more appreciative lens, and I wouldn't say that this race had more pressure, but it does feel like racing carries like more positive significance than it has in the past.
Speaker 2:So it's not really like I don't want to use the word pressure, it's more just like an appreciation for the moment and significance of like what you're able to do and not and not in like a competitive way, but just like in the bigger, like scope of life, and that you're able to like take time away from like a normal life and kind of do like a crazy thing on a weekend, and that that carries like. That is more of like um, uh, a healthier framework to go into these races with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, beautifully said, man, I, like I said and I can't sing your praises enough I was so excited to see when, you know you pulled. You know, because it's just like we've I don't know. I'm so used to seeing eli at the front all the time. I'm so used to seeing david sinclair, you know, break course records and like for you to finally get get what you deserve.
Speaker 1:You know, with all the hard work that you put in, like it was super exciting and I hope like we haven't talked about this offline but but I hope that it brings a contract for you. Well, hopefully, Hopefully, let's get you to Worlds and then hopefully keep things rolling. Does this light the fire for Worlds, Especially given now that you're working a lot? You've got a lot of pressure on yourself from a work perspective. Are you going to take time off from that to go to like how, how are you going to square that as far as like trying to get out there?
Speaker 2:Um, no, I'm not taking any time off. I'm basically like pushing the limit a little bit with work, just like. Even so, we are. We are both going to Chamonix, um, to xiaomini, um, so we'll be there for a week, um which, luckily, I like negotiated um before I started this role, that this was kind of a non-negotiable, and then, yeah, the world's thing.
Speaker 3:Let's back up for a second. So ryan's he's like the general manager and so like there's no eye on you to take his place, like it's a very like.
Speaker 3:Like I work, but like I have pto, I just take time off. Right like this is. I feel like his is a different level because it's like he has to get coverage. It has to be someone who can like do the job. There's only one other person, so if he's not working, this person probably works a week, so it's like it's much harder to yeah, it's been a little bit of a yeah um tetris game to figure it out.
Speaker 2:But yeah, basically I'm like already probably past my allowable max to get out there, which is a shame. I mean, that's something we talk about a little bit also is just like, yeah, we would love to. I mean, people are already in Chamonix, you know, for the August race, and there's already been like group texts with the world's team members like, oh yeah, like we'd love to like see the course, like let's just head out like three weeks before and that's just not something that we can do.
Speaker 2:And so, while we would love to do that, we, yeah, it's just, it's just not something that we can do. So the stoke is definitely there and I think we are super fortunate to be in Telluride for a lot of reasons, but for worlds, telluride is pretty much the ideal training for world, for the world's course. It seems to to both of us like that. I mean, that's like seeing the course is one thing, but I think also for like some athletes, like probably getting in that like specific you know, 25 climbing and descending training is going to be really important. But for us, like that's what we do all the time anyway.
Speaker 2:So we're, we're super stoked to go over there, but, um, it's, it's almost like we, we don't allow ourselves to like get more excited about something that we can't do. So it's like, yeah, we're, we're so excited to go to worlds and race it for sure, but we're not going to make we, we are not able to make like a month trip out of it and so we're not going to get like overly excited about something like that, because it's it's all about like expectation management, I suppose, and and yeah, I, I mean on my college team is all about our emotional container, emotional content. So I think also and the same thing for broken air, like we were just talking about, is like maybe that's how I race a little better too, is just like not getting too excited about something that's still eight weeks out is like I'll allow myself to get really excited when we're like the week of, but then during those two months beforehand it's still going to be the same thing about just like putting in the work and um business and slowly getting a little better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and I really appreciate you guys being very candid about it, just because, like one thing, I not that it frustrates me about the sport, but it's like it doesn't paint like necessarily a um, like a true picture of how things actually work. When you see athletes going out there for for months ahead of time and it's like, no, the vast majority of us either have to take PTO, take time off work, get coverage, do this, that and the other, and it's just not the reality to be able to go and spend significant amounts of time out there. So, yeah, and I hate when it's glossed over the sacrifice, if you will, that folks have to give up to be able to make it out to do these things.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate you guys being open about it and some of the yeah, I mean some of the things that I see happen is like the working class who are not like the full pros that, like you see in Chamonix for like that month are. Those are the people who are like actually between jobs, which those people, I think, take like a great appreciation of the time that they have, like they're like no, I'm in between jobs so I can like take this month right now and, like you, sort of pretend to be a pro for a little bit or yeah, or you're just taking time away from work, like intentionally. Um, but it is, it is a very few people who can, who can, and it's not just shamani, you know. It's like that's that sort of is the pro thing. It's like it's like it's all the training camps in february and then it's like, yeah, it's shamani, it's south africa, it's. You know, it is kind of like a pretty insane thing that is done in our sport, with all this crazy travel and crazy time away.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, that's crazy. All right, let's talk. Let's get into some Speed Goat stuff. Last year you both raced Ryan. You had a seventh place finish. Lindsey had a fifth place finish. Both of you ran great times. What's your expectation for this year going in? Is this a fun one training run like? Is this an a race? Like, how are you guys kind of framing this one you can start?
Speaker 3:okay, um, yeah, so, actually. So, while it ended up okay for both of us last year, I think we'd both say we had like pretty subpar days, um, at least at least like feelings wise, um, which doesn't always like sometimes you feel bad and you do one of your best days and like so who knows? But, um, I think we're both going into the race, like now we have some course knowledge. Last year was the first year we had both done the race, even though we've wanted to for a while. Um, but I think going in this year it feels like a little bit you know, now we know the race, even though we've wanted to for a while. Um, but I think going in this year it feels like a little bit you know, now we know the course, like hopefully we can improve on our performances last year. Um, I think it's an awesome opportunity.
Speaker 3:Like the courses, I mean it's gnarly, it's. I remember thinking at the end like does anyone have a good day on this race? Like this is so hard? Um, so I I think you know the goals, at least for me or get like a really hard race in. I think, um, it's probably not as technical as the world's course, but it's definitely up there in terms of like burliness. So just having an experience on like a tough course with a pretty competitive field, it's definitely it's. It's, you know, it's a, it's a good field this year, which is really exciting.
Speaker 3:Um, so, really just like getting a a good day on on some like gnarly on a gnarly course is the first goal and then, um, I think also just at least for me, I feel like this year has like the pressure is built and I think, um, just you know the combination of like being the first year with a sponsor like making the world's team like these things, these like really awesome things have happened for me, but I definitely feel like I'm like succumbing to the pressure a little bit, just mentally. Um, so I'm I'm really hoping that this weekend is like I can kind of channel the like celebration that ryan sort of had in the last one and um, and just like have a good, a good day, like really just try to remember, like really channel the whys of running and um, you know, like I love the mountains I think we both love the mountains why we live in in Telluride, why we do these races. So really just trying to embrace like that part of the day um is is my goal.
Speaker 1:Can you, can you go into that a little bit more, if you don't mind? Like talking about cause, I don't think enough athletes go into like the pressure they feel, you know, is it imposter syndrome? Like what are you thinking? Like what are you going through?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't. I haven't like really put my finger on exactly what it is, to be honest, but I feel like some of it I mean totally transparently is like we all set goals for ourselves. Um, I think some of my goals were to like I feel like I had, you know, I'm worthy of a sponsor, I'm like worthy of making these teams, whatever. And I feel like sometimes, when you then reach your goals, it's it's hard to like recalibrate. You like feel new pressures that you haven't experienced before. You're like okay, well, now I need to make new goals, like and and I think that process of like recalibrating has been harder than I expected. And I think that process of like recalibrating has been harder than I expected, and I think that's compounded with like work stress and life stress and like all these other things. But yeah, I think it's been. I feel like, for I mean, I've been in the sport like eight years or something, and so for seven of them, like I've kind of been chasing this one thing, which is like maybe to say that's not the right thing to chase, like I'm aware, but I think like Having somewhat or at least I had this feeling of being an underdog for like seven years, essentially, and I still feel like I am, like I'm under no illusion, that, like you know, I'm the best, because I'm not even close.
Speaker 3:But I think, like just starting to have your mindset shift a little bit of like, oh, wow, like the hard work did pay off, like, oh, I am getting somewhere. It's just like shifted my mindset enough to where I feel like I'm in a new territory of like, okay, how, where do I get my motivation from now? Like where, how do I push myself in these different ways? Like cause I've just had this like certain mindset for so long and that's now disrupted. Um, so, it's definitely been. I don't have answers, but like I'm that's what I'm working through really like kind of recalibrating, like what are my goals and what, what do I want out of this, out of like this chapter of running? And so, yeah, it's been, it's definitely been a challenge. I won't say it's been like an easy year, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being candid about it. It's interesting too, because once you get on this ultra team and then you make a world seem like you just raised the bar for yourself, right, and it's like the bar just keeps getting raised and raised and raised and it's like at what point can I just slow down? And I think one big aspect, too, is just enjoying the journey you're on. It's like how many people get to do like this, this crazy sport that we do at such a high level. For both of you and you know to stop and realize like I'm competing. Not only am I competing at a high level, but I'm also I live in a beautiful area, I train in a beautiful area, I get to race in some of these crazy locations. Like it's, I get caught up in that too, and I understand it. And so many times do I have to stop and like, like man, like life is really actually pretty awesome, like some of the things we get to do is wild. But no, I appreciate you for being candid and I get that. I understand it.
Speaker 1:I want to. I do want to talk to you a little bit more about the women's field. Like this women's field is really deep this year and both men's and women's fields are deeply this one in particular. Like we've got jen lichter, like grayson's going to be in the race, like there's quite a few really strong ladies, I'm hoping finally we can, we can get a women's course record broke and I I didn't realize this until I was doing the race preview but I was like dude, this race, this course, record 602 has stood since, like 2008, which is why the course has changed.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:So I think I mean, does Helen? I think Helen has the fastest time on the new course.
Speaker 1:I would say so I think that's true.
Speaker 3:It's like 609 or something like that.
Speaker 1:Somewhere in that range. And then jazz ran like 615 last year. Yeah, um, and I may Flynn's had some fast times as well, but yeah it's, it's still like within. So I don't know, I feel like, because ultra running mag had still like recognizes the 602 from 2008 and I'm like man, I think we need to either update that or make some changes or something, just because, um, we've had so many strong ladies on the course and, like, no one's gotten within, like I guess helen has the fastest, like closest time, um, so, yeah, I'm just really interested to see how things are going to unfold and I think it's just a strong women's race this year, which will be fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I definitely think this year has been a perfect example of the level the sport has just increased, and I think you do get the fast times when there's fast people that are all racing against each other. So I was thinking about that actually earlier today. Like, yeah, there's probably going to be. I think the course records will go down and I think multiple people might be under it, like similar to many of the races that we've seen this year.
Speaker 3:I do, I'm actually I'm curious how it'll go, because I do think, like a a race like speed goat is different than, um, you know, the races we've had so far this year, like a lot of them have been really runnable, really, like you know, speed goat is a different beast, um, and so I do wonder, like I feel like a lot of the progress we've made in the sport is like fueling, hydration, all that stuff, um, but I I don't know, I don't. I don't actually think we've seen that many examples of how that translates to mountain races, and I'm really just conjecturing at this point. But I am curious what we'll see, because I feel like this is a little bit of a different category that we haven't seen, we haven't experimented with yet this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because it is. It's such I mean, there's not too many 50 Ks out there that have anything over 10,000 feet of vertical Like this is bananas, like how hard this horse is. Um, last year was a bit toastier, would you guys agree with that? I think it seems like this year might be more favorable weather, especially if it stays cloudy, so I can only hope for you know it to be cooler for you guys, because last year you guys can speak to it. Um, yeah, maybe talk about how, like, the heat plays a massive factor when you're just exposed up there in the sun yeah, I remember it being hot.
Speaker 3:I the biggest thing I remember is so between the, so you, you do this big climb. I think it's like 4,000 feet or something. It's like nine or 10 miles to the top. There's an aid station up there and then you just drop. It's almost like an hour of descending Not quite that long, but it's substantial descending and you're pretty far out there this is the most remote part of the course and then you start this grinding, climb back up and that's a low point. So it is hot down there.
Speaker 3:I remember climbing up there is it's like an Aspen forest though, so at least there's some coverage. But the thing that struck me was like that's like a I think it's like a nine mile stretch or something in that realm, with no aid. And I remember getting to the. There's like a water station. It's not even a full aid station and it's I mean, it's gotta be 90 minutes or more. And that was for me, and I just remember I was totally out of water. I think I chugged a whole bottle and it just made me think of like wow, that is a really long stretch, especially like think of the people in the back of the pack, like that could be multiple hours with no water.
Speaker 3:Like so anyway, like I think it's it does play a role and even, you know, even at the top of the field, like people do run out of water and I think, um, you know to the point about nutrition and hydration being a focus, like I wonder if you know to the point about nutrition and hydration being a focus, like I wonder if you know bringing a third bottle or like some of the things maybe people will do this year would will actually could make a big difference. Um, cause, you know, I wasn't thinking about that last year. I was like I'll just go from aid station aid station, but, um, yeah, there there are some like pretty burly sections like that, and then, um, after that section, you're pretty much exposed like the rest of the way. So, as the heat of the day continues, like you're getting more and more exposed, um, so, yeah, it's definitely a factor and I think it's still going to be. Last I checked, the high was still like 80, which for us that sounds pretty hot.
Speaker 1:That's so hot, oh my gosh. I saw lows in the 40s and I thought it was only going to be Now. Granted, I only checked Snowbird, the resort, so it might be the base, but down and as low as the lower 70s. So maybe I'll get cloudy, who knows? I don't know. Hopefully it didn't. This was like.
Speaker 3:Well, you've checked more recently than I have.
Speaker 2:That sounds great a day ago. Um, I think the other piece that made us like feel bad last year was pretty much all the races we do were like coming down significantly and this race is still pretty high, and so you don't have that like telluride high altitude effect when you go there. You're still like oh no, we're actually still pretty high, like when we go, when we go down to um tahoe or anything like that, it's still like oh yeah, we have like another gear that you never feel at Telluride, but that doesn't really exist at this race because you're still so high. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you speak to cause, like, even like someone like Jim Walmsley, like he had an epic implosion at this race and then came back and set the course record Right. I think it takes some time to figure out. Like maybe a couple spins on the course, would you guys agree with that? Like, maybe, like it's like I know, ryan, like I could speak to both of you. You are both capable. Like, ryan, like I can just like off your time last year. Like you're fully capable of going under sub uh 520. Like you could definitely do that is that the course record?
Speaker 1:no course, record is what a distinct like low fives it's like no, it's four, he ran under five hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like 457.
Speaker 1:So like well, for instance, like Michelino's ran 514 and 516. And just knowing, like seeing your similarities, like I just know you're capable of running under 520 and like getting close to that as well. So it's like, in there, it probably just takes some time to figure out and, like you know, just mess around on the course. So that way you, you know, have an idea of what to expect.
Speaker 3:Well, ryan. I think that's most courses in general, though, but yeah, I was just going to say I think Ryan can, I don't. What did you run last year?
Speaker 1:Five 37.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Ryan last year ate no food?
Speaker 3:What no? Oh, here we go. Here's the story he's gonna be fine.
Speaker 2:I think I had I dealt with like a ton of nausea last year, a lot of races and and this is one of the ones I think, yeah, I got. I had a couple gels before the top of the first climb and then I basically had only water for the rest of the race and maybe a little bit of Coke, but I couldn't keep anything down for some reason. So, but I I feel like I mostly figured out nutrition this year, which is which is good. So hopefully I mean hopefully there's 10 minutes right there just in nutrition. Yeah, easily.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, especially if you guys get some favorable weather and nutrition, like you're going to move so much faster, it'll be completely different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does look like you looked more recently than me, because I just double checked and it's like mid seventies that sounds good, so it's gone up. And clouds. You're right, the clouds, I think, is going to be key. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because if that sun's like, for instance, like Christian Allen and alan ran one in 2023 and like he's one of the most capable humans I've ever met in my life on anything, and like if he ran like 523 on a hot day like he's it's just interesting like how that 10 minutes, 15 minutes, really plays in when it's super toasty. So, yeah, hopefully, uh, it's an enjoyable, cooler day for you guys uh well, guys, let's see uh, we're getting pretty close to the end here.
Speaker 1:I just got to say thank you guys both so much for coming on and having a chat Like this is one of my favorite episodes and hopefully we can do uh more of these down the line. Um, wishing you both the best of luck on race day and if you guys have anything to add, feel free and go from there.
Speaker 2:I don't think I have anything else. Yeah, have anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for having us on kind of fun to do a, do a partner one. Yeah, yeah, I like these. I'm thinking about doing maybe something cool for worlds, like doing like good groups or something like that, like the women's short trail team and then the men's short trail team and kind of going from there but starting to cook up some stuff now. So, uh, we'll be in touch yeah, that sounds good yeah, awesome guys. Well, safe travels, have a great race and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much Thanks man yeah.
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