The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#108 - Sarah Carter
From collegiate rejection to trail running triumph, Sarah Carter's story is one of extraordinary resilience and self-discovery. After being cut from her university team and told she lacked potential, Sarah transferred to Colorado State University where she rebuilt her confidence and reignited her passion for running.
Our conversation dives deep into Sarah's remarkable capacity to overcome adversity – a quality that defines her athletic journey. She candidly shares the emotional toll of her college transfer, the years spent rebuilding her confidence, and how these experiences shaped her approach to professional competition. Rather than viewing setbacks as endpoints, Sarah sees them as redirection toward where she's meant to be.
We explore her recent success at the Tepe Pack Trail Golden Trail Series race in Mexico, where she secured an impressive 8th place finish despite coming off a significant glute injury. Sarah reveals how she managed this performance with minimal training, sharing the mental strategies that helped her excel when physical preparation wasn't ideal.
The discussion takes us through her partnership with Topo Athletic, training alongside elite runners in Boulder, and finding her sweet spot in distances up to 50K. Sarah offers valuable insights about the competitive nature of shorter trail distances and why patience in progression can yield better results than rushing to ultra distances.
What emerges is a portrait of an athlete who embodies grit and authenticity. Sarah's journey teaches us that our greatest growth often comes through our biggest challenges – a reminder that perseverance isn't just about pushing through physical pain, but about maintaining belief in yourself when others don't. Whether you're a competitive trail runner or someone facing your own obstacles, Sarah's story will inspire you to embrace the winding path to your highest potential.
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What's up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with Sarah Carter. I'm really excited to finally have a conversation with Sarah Just a big fan, and after this conversation, I left even a bigger fan.
Speaker 1:We caught up with Sarah about a month removed from her eighth place finish at the Tape Pack Trail Golden Trail Series race in Mexico, which, which was one of her I think, probably one of her proudest performances. Um, talked a lot about that performance. We got into that a lot. And then we, I think, a lot of the conversation that was really cool was we got into sarah's journey. Um, it's one of just like being tough and being gritty and perseverance. We got into you know her experience in college, um, where she had to transfer and go to another team, um, to run track and cross country. Um, we got into signing with a new brand, um, and and fulfilling that.
Speaker 1:Um, you know this past uh, late spring, or sorry, early spring uh, late winter, um, and then we talked about what she had planned for the rest of her season you know, the rest of her 2025. And we also got into injury coming back from you know a pretty serious injury and what it's like to, you know, build up and try to go race broken arrow with only a few weeks of with running and, yeah, just her ability to, you know, kind of break through and persevere on that. So this is a really fun conversation. Uh, really appreciate Sarah for coming on and being open to telling her story, um, wishing her the best of luck in in the rest of her season, and I think you guys are going to really enjoy this one. It was a great conversation.
Speaker 1:So, without further ado, sarah Carter, it's time. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live People. What's going on? It is, guys, super exciting adventures in the mountains, summer races. Um, you know it's about that time to start thinking about your gear. You know, I, uh I want to say our brand partner, ultimate direction's got you guys covered, pop on over to ultimate directioncom.
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Speaker 2:Great yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Stoked to have you on. Finally, I feel like I've been like adjacently aware of you, like in the Boulder running scene, like trail team stuff, for like a while and then, after you know your most recent race in Mexico, we had a great finish. I was like you know what let's have a conversation. So happy, uh happy, we were able to finally do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. I think you know I always talk with my friends here in Boulder. There's one degree of separation between you and anybody else in the kind of running endurance sports world. Um, so it's, it's cool to finally be on. Yeah, now for sure. How's your? How's your week going so far? Yeah, my, my week's going well. Um, last sort of big ish week of training before I start to taper for my next couple of races. Um, so I'm enjoying the process of that. Since I was out of running for a while, um, it's nice to be back and just kind of knocking out those consistent miles, consistent workouts, um, and, as I think, as many former trip track runners will say, like the taper tantrum is coming.
Speaker 1:What do you? What do you, if don't mind me asking like, what do you have coming up?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, um, in about a week I'll be flying out to Europe with a couple of friends and we'll be doing golden trail, austria, and then Sears and all after that.
Speaker 1:Oh, so cool. We'll get into the golden trail stuff but like that, uh, what is the name of that Austria race? It's like the glacier trail.
Speaker 2:It's Alpine glacier trail, yeah.
Speaker 1:Looks so rad. That seems like a sweet course, right, and then series and obviously iconic right, it's an iconic race, yeah, and August is going to be a big one.
Speaker 2:It kind of just increases in magnitude. Um, so I'm starting with Golden Trail, austria, sears and all, and then a few weeks after that I have OCC, stepping up in distance and vert and everything, and really excited about all of it.
Speaker 1:Oh man, super cool, super cool. All right, so before we get started, maybe let's do the biographical stuff, let's get that out of the way. Maybe give me like the five-minute elevator pitch on like your kind of your background with running. Maybe talk about your time at CSU, all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure thing, oh gosh, Okay, condensing 20 years into five minutes.
Speaker 1:You can go more. Take as much time, yeah, um yeah, so I've.
Speaker 2:I've been a runner for about 20 years now. Um. My first 5k was actually a funny accident. It was like some community you know 5k race and I was six. My parents thought I was each with the other and I actually ended up running my first 5k completely alone. I had no idea what a 5k was. I didn't know how long it was. I thought maybe it was five miles, but I also didn't know how long five miles was. Thought maybe it was five miles, um, but I also didn't know how long five miles was. Um. So I just ended up thinking I was lost and going to die in a cornfield. Um, then I finished and you know, the romantic in me is that I loved running forever and ever. I think I was. I think I cried actually, um, but yeah, after that I was actually.
Speaker 2:I was a youth triathlete for a bit, um, and it just became pretty apparent that my strength there was running, um. So while I was doing those triathlons I was also doing a lot of uh, road five case and eventually came across somebody on the USATF circuit. So I started doing all the junior Olympic stuff, um, took me into high school cross country and track and then actually did my first two years of collegiate running at the university of Washington Um, so had a few teammates who are also on the trail scene these days. Um, and then and, yeah, after. I mean, I've talked about this before, but it's something I want to be very open about as somebody you know who obviously not only is able to run professionally but still loves running Um. After my sophomore year at Washington, I was actually cut from the team and told that you know, I just didn't have the potential to be successful in the sport Um. So transferring for me it wasn't just um a loose fit choice, it was not really a choice at all. Um. My choice was, if I wanted to continue running collegiately, I had to leave Um and honestly, that was the best possible thing that could have happened to me. Um, because it led me to CSU, uh, somewhere that I hadn't thought about before. Um and that, you know, really was the place that made it possible for me to not only fall back in love with running um but to, you know, reach, I would want to say my full potential, cause I think you know we still got a ways to go, but to reach everything I have so far Um, and because of you know I have so far, and because of you know, every red shirt under the sun.
Speaker 2:I had a full five years at CSU. So it, yes, so I had seven years in the NCAA and I'm very grateful for that. Not so grateful for all the injuries that made that possible, but I'm glad I was able to do that, just because I felt like you know, the first two years I at Washington I spent a lot of time injured and then the rest of the time also just very kind of in the pits mentally. So getting to kind of start over fresh, have that full five years at CSU to just grow and develop as an athlete, as a person, to pursue things I really cared about academically, was really exciting. To pursue things I really cared about academically was a really exciting Um, yeah. So I finished off my time at CSU, uh, just over a year ago now, um, and hopped straight into trails.
Speaker 2:I think the thing I kind of giggled about last year was it was two weeks to the day after my last NCAAs. I was, um, on the start line of my first trail race of the season. Um, it was the broken arrow, vk. So it was really a quick, quick transition, um, yeah, and since then I've kind of just been, you know, trying new distances, trying new disciplines.
Speaker 2:Um, had my first road half that I've run as an adult, um, earlier this spring. I did my first ultra back in December. So it's been a really fun transitional time of just getting to kind of discover, you know, what direction do I want to take running as a career in, like, what distances feel good, like, what kind of racing do I enjoy and where does my potential lie. And it's been a fun process, definitely a complicated process, um, but you know I've enjoyed it all and running professionally has been my dream since I was that six year old, um, and I saw, I think, one of the pre Fontaine documentaries for the first time, um, so you know, getting to do what I'm doing now is really special.
Speaker 1:What a cool you might have, one of the best stories I think I've ever heard special what a cool you might have. One of the best stories I think I've ever heard on the podcast Like you know, and the reason I say, the reason I said it's because, like, obviously it's.
Speaker 1:it's a really difficult time in your life getting either cut from a team or going through something like as emotionally scarring or taxing like that. It's like it's like losing a job. It's like pretty, that's like I can imagine something pretty intense and especially being very young to go through that. And then you know being able to, you know realize that life goes on and not necessarily reinvent yourself, but realize that like you're able to continue to do the sport and do all those things Can you talk about like how it changed you. Like I would imagine it's because you it seems like you have a very positive spin on the sport, very positive outlook spin on the sport very positive outlook.
Speaker 2:I try to um, it ebbs and flows for sure, I think, you know, coming out of high school I had my whole career has kind of been defined by these periods of kind of relative mediocrity and then I have this big jump and I get a taste of, like, what I'm capable of, and I get a taste of, okay, these dreams aren't so far-fetched. And then, you know, things happen that kind of send me back into, you know, that sort of struggling place and I had it happen several times. So, yeah, coming out of high school, I really wanted to, you know, go to like the kind of biggest, most prestigious, most competitive program that I could, because I thought that that's what I needed to be successful. Um, you know, and of course who doesn't want that kind of thing? Right? Um, and of course there were, there were benefits to that, and I think a lot about that as I've entered the professional sphere.
Speaker 2:But what I realized as a collegiate athlete is that what I wanted wasn't what I needed, and I think that really showed when I was transferring, because I had spent my time at Washington, especially that sophomore year, feeling very unsupported, feeling very unwanted, feeling like, you know, no matter how hard I worked, no matter how hard I tried, no matter what I accomplished, like you know, no matter how much I communicated, it just was never going to be good enough. And so it was really important to me when I transferred to go somewhere that I knew I was wanted, and go somewhere where the coaches and the team and the support staff actually cared about my development and trajectory and didn't just, you know, throw me away based on kind of what I considered a hastily made assumption about me. And you know, finding them at CSU was really awesome and I'm not going to act like it was this instantaneous epiphany of everyone here likes me, so now I'm going to be good, it wasn't that at all. It was very much this process of having to, you know, find confidence and find like an internal sense of self-worth that I felt like I had kind of lost. I mean, it took years, like you can go back and you can look at my TIFers.
Speaker 2:You know I didn't break 17 in the 5k until halfway through my fifth year of college, you know, and for a lot of people that's kind of, you know, the end of their career and things didn't even take off for me until that point. It was really years and years long, like years of unlearning a lot of bad mental and emotional habits and tendencies and years of building up physical health and resilience and confidence. It was a lot of moving pieces at once and, you know, toss some stress fractures in there and definitely stirred the pot. But I also don't think that I would be where I'm at if those things hadn't happened Like if I'd had a more linear collegiate journey. I don't think I would be where I am. I think part of the reason I can be so positive now and I kind of just sending this experience is because I know what it's like to have nothing going right. So now, even if it's just one thing, I'm excited and grateful about that.
Speaker 1:That's a beautiful answer. Wow, let me ask you. So I got to double back for a second. You grew up in Colorado right or no, arizona, it was Arizona. Okay, sorry, I didn't get that out of you before Super. No, it's okay. Yeah, I should have specified. I just oh, no, you're good. You're good. Did you go to CSU with Sydney Peterson?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Oh, shout out to Sydney. She's another friend of the pod.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, she was my first friend at CSU and she's still one of my best friends.
Speaker 1:Really that's super cool. Love Sydney, super yeah, wow. So what a story. It's interesting to me because I talked to so many folks that have had rough rides in college, like in the sense of either D1, d2 athletes like not not necessarily the best time, but when they get to trail it seems like they're just having fun. They're like I just I'm just having a good time, like this is great, there's no pressure, like and you know the pressure is is the only the pressure you put on yourself, and it's usually not that much like. Would you, would you agree with that like, or do you still put pressure on yourself in the sport?
Speaker 2:I put a lot of pressure on myself. Um, I think that's why I giggled a little bit. When you were, you know, the first thing you said was happy I am, I am.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think this last year was kind of this tough dichotomy for me because on paper my life was so cool and so many parts of it were. You know, I last summer I worked for about half the summer and then I basically just took my savings. I was like I'm going to go to Europe and I'm going to try and run some competitive races and I'm going to reach out to brands and I'm just like my goal is to do what I have to do, to try and, you know, make running professionally a possibility, because coming out of NCAA like I was good enough where it was realistic to pursue, but I wasn't good enough where there was anybody lined up around the block, you know, to offer me anything coming out of college and so, honestly, this last year was kind of tough. It was I put so much pressure on every single race to be that kind of defining moment that got me sponsored and kind of none of them were that and I think it was.
Speaker 2:You know, it was a lot of the comparison game, you know, like looking at people that I would consider my peers, who walked out of the NCAA with a contract in hand or walked out of the NCAA, had one really good trail race and got a contract, and you know, I felt like by that not happening for me that I was kind of falling short or that I was doing something wrong, and so, yeah, I put a lot of pressure on every race and of course, as all of us know, that actually makes it harder to be successful.
Speaker 2:But it's also hard, once you're in that mindset, to take yourself out of it and even though, objectively, I knew I was kind of being my own worst enemy, it was hard to talk myself out of that place because I was just like I don't know, I think I just I expected to have that magic transition that many people that I know did, and I felt like not having that was a personal shortcoming and I think it also, you know, compounded with the stress of like I'm burning my own personal savings doing this, you know, and I've not always been the most financially stable. So it felt scary to be like I am unemployed and I'm just kind of sending it in Europe, hoping that something is going to work out.
Speaker 2:And when it kind of seemed like that wasn't happening, I was freaking out a little bit, you know, and I was reaching out to brands and hearing a lot of no's and that's, you know, the reality for most of us. But it's still hurt to hear, you know, because it made it feel like man, what have I been working for all this time, if I'm actually maybe not good enough after all? And it brought back, you know, just a lot of those feelings of not being enough and being insufficient as an athlete or, you know, like letting people down, even though I'm, like I was on the surface, like I'm going to Europe, I'm training in Chamonix, you know, I'm running up mountains every day. I moved to Boulder, all of these things like look so cool, but on the flip side of it, I was kind of having an existential crisis, um, but I guess that leads me to the positive side of it, which was um me, to the positive side of it, which was signing with Topo.
Speaker 2:There we go, there we go there. It is yeah, and I don't know if you were going. No, talk about it, let's talk.
Speaker 1:It was on my list of things to get to Topo, like obviously Segue, here we go. Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So they, over the winter, reached out to me and I was really excited about that because talking to them on learning more about the brand and their vision and you know what they're all about and just kind of hearing the enthusiasm that they had for me was so important because it felt like being in the transfer portal all over again and talking to CSU Um and that meant a lot to me because it made me realize why on earth would I spend all this mental and emotional energy on people who don't want me, when there's someone right here who is an incredible brand that does Um and you know they actually like the shoe that they just released, the vista. It's the best trail running shoe I've ever put on my feet. You know, and I'm like this feels like the kind of perfect parallel of you know, my journey in college and you know, realizing that I have everything I need right here and then some like my journey doesn't have to look like my peers for it to be perfect for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, oh my God, such a good answer.
Speaker 1:I really, and I appreciate you kind of segueing into Topo. Let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1:I mean like I have to say, like honestly, I've tried the shoes in the past like huge fan, like they make a fantastic product. I like it because I think it's a great signing, because there's not a ton of athletes on their team that are like that 50 K distance and down and like you are like perfect in that sub ultra, like more of the golden trail series and stuff. I don't think they have any international athletes doing it either. So like you're kind of the one which is awesome, so you're kind of like the like brand ambassador slash athlete for them, um, like on that scene, like how does that feel?
Speaker 2:It honestly feels really exciting. Um, because the the number one thing that I felt like was important for me when siding with anybody was, you know, I'm new to this scene in a competitive sense and I feel like I have a long ways to grow and ideally I could be with a brand that can grow along with me. And so, like having that trajectory of yeah, I'm, you know, one of their first, if not their first, like kind of 50k down person, like I'm one of the younger people on the team, so I kind of bring a new, a new demographic and a new type of energy and hopefully expanding into new markets, that's been really special for me. So I'm like now I feel like, you know, I can develop along with them and we can kind of, you know, have this intertwined trajectory, especially because I also shoe test for them. So, you know, getting to very directly be a part of that process is so cool and it's very rewarding too, you know.
Speaker 2:And it's also fun representing a brand like topo, because all the time I'll be out for a run here in boulder and, like, I think every time I've been at the top of sanitas in the last month, people be like what is that that you're wearing and I get to do the spiel and it's so much fun. Um, you know, and one of one of my friends you probably know, talon, yeah, um, yeah, he uh works Fleet Feet and he's always telling me when people come in and ask for topos or when they try them on, and they seem to be pretty universally loved and I'm like that makes me so excited to kind of be a part of that growth.
Speaker 1:It's an immensely popular shoe. Like I tried, it was the Mountain Racers or something like that back in the day, yeah, and like I said, it's, you know, wide toe box but still with a drop like it's, like I said, immensely popular. A lot of people wear them. I'm just happy that, like they're, they're repping now, like in the sub ultra scene. Like they're, they know there's a market there and they're trying to attack and like get in. You know, have athletes in there and have like just a presence, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's honestly very untapped because, yeah, mountain racer is what I typically race in, um, and they're awesome. It's enough cushion for me to feel comfortable, you know, doing 50 K plus in them, um, but they're light and maneuverable and the traction is awesome, um, the Vibram on the bottom, so it's like I can grip anything I need to um, and you know, I think pretty much gosh. I guess two of the three ultras I've done have been quite wet um and so sorry.
Speaker 1:I said chuck, and that's no joke, man.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh especially this last year. Oh my gosh, yeah, I was like that was. I think we were wet before we even got to the start line. Um, yeah, don't ask why I started in a tank top. That was a mistake.
Speaker 1:At least you didn't get hypothermia man.
Speaker 2:So people like yeah, oh, no it. It was scary, passing people who were very obviously not okay and I don't know how I managed to not, um, cause I did the first, probably 10 or so miles in the tank top, um, and I mean, I knew it was a mistake, but I wasn't going to stop before an aid station because my hands were too numb, um, so I was like you just have to make it to the next aid and they can put your coat on for you. Um, yeah, that race was gnarly um, but anyways, back to the topos. Sorry, um, no, no, it's okay. Gosh chuck, and that was.
Speaker 2:It was a trip, Um, but running and Thailand had several water crossings, it was quite wet as well. Um, running that far in a completely saturated shoe and not having it rub all the skin off of your foot, I think is a pretty good endorsement. Um, yeah, comfort wise, they've been great. Performance wise. Um, yeah, I train in the vistas, love those like the most. They're the most maneuverable high cushion trainer I've ever worn, um, which I've tried a lot of them. So big, big fan, yeah super cool, super cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm excited to see where this partnership goes, like, I like, yeah, it's very cool to see, uh, like I said, them on the scene and just you know, see how, as it, as it continues to develop. Um, let's talk racing. I want to check because you just got back from is it, was it tepe, or is that? How do they pronounce it? The tepe, the?
Speaker 1:tepe trail yeah trail was the, the one uh that just took place in mexico, but a few weeks removed probably, like well, about a month now. Uh goes to show you how much I keep track of time uh, that said, though, you had a top 10 finish there at a golden trail world series race like arguably one of your best performances so far, and you've had a lot of really good ones. Like, let's talk about the race itself and just how excited you were about the performance and just how it went for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, honestly, my expectations going into that race were kind of purposely zero, um, just because I was coming off of a pretty rough day at Broken Arrow, um, and I had done very minimal training for both of those races. Um, I think it's on my Instagram but, yeah, I think before Broken Arrow, the longest thing I did was, uh, 12 miles with about 1500 feet of vert. Um, once, uh, and that was I was just, you know, with that I was just simply not prepared for 29 miles and just under 9,000 feet of climbing descent and so I don't. I think I was still sore from Broken Arrow on the start line of Mexico and you know I was still in the phase of just praying that I wasn't going to re-tear my glute need. So, going into that race, I was just like I'm here because you know I lost a few races earlier in the season. This lined up really perfectly for me it's a longer course, which means I'm not going to feel quite so insecure about not having a lot of leg speed. The team hosting the race they were phenomenal and flexible and accommodating. So I was really excited to have gotten to go on that trip because I didn't know if I was going to be able to from a health standpoint. So getting to even be there I was like heck, yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, honestly, on the start line I was like if I can, just if I can go through today and I can kind of keep my head and keep my health and make it to the finish line, you know, feeling even marginally better than I did at Broken Arrow, I'm going to be happy. And I think I got into it and I realized, you know, even just in that week since Broken Arrow, like I had already adapted to some capacity, because I felt better, I felt more of a flow, my body was cooperating more. You know I was because I felt better, I felt more of a flow, my body was cooperating more. You know, I was holding down fuel better, my downhills were, I was, they were better, the baseline was low. I felt better and I just, you know, I felt more in the race from the start. Um, but mentally I did put a lot of emphasis on not forcing myself to have any specific outcome in order to be happy. And yeah, I mean, I think you know, I realized by about halfway through that top 10 was going to be well within grasp and that made me excited and, you know, push through finish.
Speaker 2:I was just really, you know, proud of being able to pull off my highest ever golden trail finish. Off of what conditions that I would consider to be not, uh, ideal. You know cause, I think between broken arrow and Tepic I ran about 12 miles total. Jesus, I mean, I, I biked some, um, but yeah, I ran six miles one day, six miles and some strides the day before the race. And then I got on the start line and I was like, well, I'm here, we're just going to see what happens. But yeah, I was really proud to have that happen, especially at that particular race.
Speaker 2:Out of all of the golden trail races I've been to so far, that event and that community brought the most, the most energy, like the most passion, the most excitement that I've experienced. And you know, in an atmosphere like that, how can you not perform? You know, like, how can you not want to bring your best? Because you just feel so supported by people who you know I mean, I guess they kind of knew who we were but, like you know, basically strangers are still making you feel so supported, like that's a special, that's a special feeling. What?
Speaker 1:did they?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry, no, they brought it there. That's all I was going to say.
Speaker 1:What did you? I'm a yapper, oh no, no, you're good, you're good, I'm listening, I'm listening. What did you think of the course? Like I saw some like photos of like Lauren Gregory, I think, falling all over the place and like other people falling. Like what did you? Was it slick or like? What was the deal there?
Speaker 2:I would call it enjoyably technical. It had so. Pretty much every day leading up until the race it had rained for some, if not the whole day, so some areas were pretty muddy or some were just slippery, and especially some of the downhills were quite technical. So if you're an amazing technical downhiller who just sends it like Lauren, some spills were inevitable. I think, yeah, I need her to put on a downhill clinic for me to attend. She's a beast.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was honestly, I thought it was a very well balanced course. There were some areas where you could get into a really great flow, whether it was climbing or descending, or relatively flat or relatively flat, and then there were also some areas that were a technical challenge and then kind of everything in between. I liked that a lot. I think variability keeps a course fresh and it also, you know, depending on where you are, plays to the strengths of various athletes and I think that you know that leaves the race open to anybody. And, yeah, I enjoyed it. And I think races like that for me are a really excellent learning opportunity, because it shows me where I'm strong and it shows me where I need to work on, um, and both of those things are really invaluable when it comes to preparing for future races.
Speaker 1:So really, liked that I got to give you your your kudos to like just being able to bounce back. I feel like cause broken arrow was just like hit or miss for so many people that I feel like that could mess with people's, like just mess with your head a lot, especially going into a race the following week. It's like one of those mental spaces where it's either okay, I can brush this one off and go into it with low expectations, or you know just seeing what happens, or some people, like are very self-defeated and, just, you know, think themselves as being out of it. So being able to kind of claw your way back and have an amazing performance like that's I got to give you your flowers for that it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate that. I mean. I think, honestly, clawing my way back has been the theme of my athletic career.
Speaker 1:Blue collar. Like working, I like it, I dig it, it's cool. Thank you, I can ask you about like Mexico. Did you? Did you guys like hang out, enjoy, like the food and everything, and like the culture? I mean like it's one of the I love Mexico, it's like one of my favorite places to visit. Like what? What did you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was awesome. Yeah, it was wonderful. Like I said, I want to give a major shout out to, like, the whole Salomon Mexico team, um, and the Tepec trail team. Like they, they created an amazing event. Um, they did a phenomenal job with logistics and, you know, with course marking. Like it was a pretty remote course and I was never worried about being lost. Um, the support at aid stations was amazing.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, outside of the race, um, we were eating home cooked meals every day. Um, one of the hotels, um hosted meals and it was just this wonderful group of women in the kitchen who just, you know, were whipping. I don't, I don't, honestly, I'm not sure what half of what we ate was, but it was delicious, um, and it was great to just get that authentic flavor in the culture. Um, unfortunately, lauren and I got there a little bit late to do some of the cultural activities that some of the other athletes got to. Um, sad about that, cause it looked awesome.
Speaker 2:Um, we did get to explore the downtown of Huasca del Campo a little bit. That was really neat, um, and then, after the race, uh, the, the racing community, were kind enough to host a party for us, so they had a live band and they had people making food from scratch right there in front of us. So same thing, just more delicious homemade food and listening to, you know, live music. And we actually got to do some traditional dances. I can't say I'm a very good dancer, but I tried, put in the effort. But, yeah, getting to take part in that was very special. And I also want to give a shout out this was the first time that I was involved in the top athlete proceedings.
Speaker 2:So the first time I got to be in the athlete presentation, um, and the poster signing and all of that and getting to meet the community and the other athletes racing was amazing, um, you know, people were so excited to meet us and like, compared to some of the other athletes there, I am kind of a no name and like I you know I was sitting next to Joyce, you know, on the autograph signing line. You know I'm not expecting much and the fact that people still wanted to talk to me and take pictures with me and they still wanted my signature on their hat and things like that just made me feel so special and so appreciative for how passionate they were about the sport. So special and so appreciative for how passionate they were about the sport and it's just a reminder of like that's what's so amazing about the trail community and you know, the people there just exemplified that completely. Such a cool, yeah, so cool.
Speaker 1:It is so cool, like, and it's crazy Cause, like I think people forget that like it's a global sport, like there's fans everywhere and people really follow the golden trail series, like it's. It's like worldwide, like it's it's kind of a phenomenon and growing. Um, what would you say as far as like, like the Mexican culture and like that?
Speaker 2:um, just the fan bases there are a lot of fans there and people that want to know these athletes.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, huge Um. And, like I said, I'm, you know, I'm still relatively new to being in even any remote kind of spotlight, you know. So I don't know how this compares to the experiences of other athletes who, you know, are kind of known everywhere they go, racing at the venue and the spectators and everything. They were so excited to host that event, um, and for us to be a part of it. I think you know, even just walking around the venue after the race, like I just I went for a short walk, that was my cool down, um, and the amount of times that I was stopped just to to take photos and to sign things, even after the race, like you know, and I, I, I didn't win and I'm pretty sure people knew I wasn't lauren um, um, you know, the fact that people were still just excited that I was any part of that was just so special. Um, and yeah, getting to see the energy that people had at the aid stations and these crazy remote places on the course where I'm like I don't even know how you got there to spectate, but somehow you're there and you're cheering, like that is amazing and that is passion, and even some of the folks working at the hotels that we stayed at, you know, they made it very clear that they were excited to be a part of this event and they were happy to have us.
Speaker 2:There was one man, I think he worked at the host hotel and he had all the athletes sign his t-shirt before we checked out and it's like I don't know, just to be able to feel so welcomed into the community, even just for a weekend, was really special, um, and yeah, the athlete signing. There were a few folks who, um, brought like goodie bags of gifts for every athlete, um, and I have no idea if that's typical or not, but nothing like that has ever happened to me before. It was a little bag of traditional mexican like treats and candy and like that was so thoughtful. And another woman was gave us each a little pack of either like Mexico earrings or a pin. And if you, if there's any podium pictures out there, I'm wearing the pin on my t-shirt when I'm on the podium, just because it's like you welcomed us and I'm thankful to be here with you.
Speaker 1:What a cool sport.
Speaker 2:It's the best sport on earth. Oh, my gosh right yeah.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. I want to rewind a little bit and I feel like we can close the book on Mexico. I feel like we got everything from that, but I want to talk about your injury, your glute mead. When did you tear it? And then how long was it before you tore it to get the broken arrow? When you started trying to figure things out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I tore it at the very end of April.
Speaker 1:Okay, so close, that's so close.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not too far off, and we didn't know for a while what it was, because it wasn't a kind of trauma event that tore it. A kind of trauma event that tore it.
Speaker 2:This is so sad to admit, but I irritated it doing booty blaster glute work with Lauren and Allie and I made the mistake I was using a black band when I should not have been. I just didn't think anything of it because I was like we do glute work all the time Like nothing happened. You know, it's the lowest risk thing you can do when you're used to running up and down mountains. And a couple days later I just started to get a lot of kind of pain in that like hip area. And you know we're runners If something hurts, you kind of see if you can run through it first. Um, and rather than see if I could run through it doing something light or easy, I decided to see if I could run through it, um, tempoing Sanitas loop, uh, and then running 10 more miles, oh God.
Speaker 2:Um it had a 16 mile long run with um 30 minutes of like hard trail work. Um, and you know that is on me for not listening to my body when it told me that morning I probably shouldn't have done that and that's where the tear occurred. Um, like during the run it wasn't as bad, but I think I kind of realized after the fact like that was a mistake. Um, and you know it was kind of one of those things where it feels like it's soft tissue but it's in a very high risk area. So we had a lot of concern. I'm like, okay, is this my labrum? Is this my femoral neck? Is this my pelvis? It was even radiating so far that I was like, is this my sacrum? Just because I was having pain from my hip flexor all the way around the side of my hip into my glute and all the way up against the side of my sacrum. So there's so many things that this could be. So I eventually got an MRI and that confirmed that it was just like a partial tear of the glute med. So that was actually a celebratory moment because that was the first time I've ever gotten an MRI that wasn't a stress fracture. So claps for that I think I excitedly texted my group chat with my training partners saying my MRI was clean, my butt's torn, but it's nothing. Nothing's broken. So that you know that's kind of best case scenario.
Speaker 2:Um, the unfortunate side to that was, yeah, I had, I want to say, four failed return to trainings. Um, like, if you went to look at my Strava it would look like an EKG. It's just up down, up down. You know where. I would try to come back, have a few good days. It would flare up again. I would have to take more days off.
Speaker 2:You know, every time I would think that I'm back, it's better, I've made it a few days, you know I've made it almost a week. It would just kind of send me backwards again, um, so, leading up to broken arrow, I had one full week of training the week before where I was able to run my full six days. Half of them were on the incline treadmill, but that's still running, um, and yeah, I did that. You know very good preparation of a 12 mile long run. Um, and then I had the week of broken arrow. Um, and that was the only consistent running that I did going into that race and you know it showed out there I knew I wasn't running, yeah, but like I gotta give you like kudos for even lining up at broken arrow.
Speaker 1:Like I went through this with like like something very similar and I just want to just say to hell with it and just raced because it was a short race. I raced cirque series killington. It's only an eight mile race, but like to go around a 29 mile race off of like that, like holy shit, like were you, did you have your doubts? Like were you even, like were you not going to do it and decided to last second, or like how did that? Are you like always? Like always, I'm going to do this.
Speaker 2:I had it in my mind that I was going to make it to that start line under any circumstance, except, like, the concrete knowledge that I couldn't or shouldn't. Um and I mean full disclosure, like I had, I had an exit strategy in place with my coach, david. Um, in case you know, what do I do if this happens. What do I do if that happens? And I had it planned out like here are the different places on the course where I could safely stop and make it back down. You know, here's where it'd be safe for me to pull out if I have to. Here's what I do if I get sudden pain, like here's how much I can try and run through it versus when, to call it.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I went into that race knowing I was going to give it my best shot, but I also went in knowing it wasn't worth sacrificing the rest of my season. And you know, that week, going into the race, had I felt like there was a higher chance of re-injury than there was of me finishing, I wouldn't have raced. But I think it had gotten to the point where I believe that I at least had a chance. And you know, that was my only shot at the world's team, and so I felt that I was doing myself a disservice if I didn't try. And you know I was fully prepared to, um, and you know I was fully prepared to if it looked like I had to pull out. But fortunately I didn't. And you know, if there's one positive thing I could take away from that race, it's that I did not re-injure myself, yeah, um, and it made me feel a lot more confident going forward because I'm like, well, if that didn't re-injure it, you're good.
Speaker 2:I'm probably good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, At least that's. That's athlete math, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, if I could do that, I can do less than that and not get hurt.
Speaker 1:Right, it's funny how I don't know like, we go through every it's the like, the whole mental process, like, well, if I could do this, I can do that. Let's, let's see what happens. Yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2:While I've raced a lot of sub ultra and I still got a little bit of leg speed in me, I have felt like my sub ultra racing. I don't think I found myra racing. I don't think I've found my groove yet. I don't think I've had a single kind of traditional sub-ultra race that has felt like right to me.
Speaker 2:Here's my hot take philosophy okay, the classic distance up to about 20, 25k, that's the 1500 at the trail world yeah like you know, and the people that have the track background and not all of them, but like a lot of them that you see thriving at that distance, are the people who are 1500 runners, who were steeple chasers, who were, you know, maybe they dabbled in the 5k, but they were 5k, 15 and not 5k 10k. It's obviously not a hard and fast rule, but it's something that I have noticed, you know, um, because when I raced my first 50k, the first thing I said when I was asked that I was like that was a technical 10k, that was a five hour technical 10k, um, and I felt like debuting in that distance, that first one in thailand, that felt better to me than any sub ultra race I had done before. That moment.
Speaker 2:Interesting, that's a good take. Yeah, I never.
Speaker 1:well, I know steeplers do very well, like we all know. Like steeplers, for some reason it just clicks. The mountain classic distance just seems to like your Allie Max or Lauren's like people like that, like seem to perform very well. I never thought about it like that, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to get flamed for that, I'm sure. No, I don't think so. I think it's. I believe what I believe.
Speaker 1:No, I think a lot of people would agree with it though, Cause, like this is something I bring up a lot on the podcast is why does steeplers perform? I literally just had this conversation yesterday with Alexa Aragon. It was like why does steeplers do so well, like on the trails? So yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, call that like 25 to 35K range, call that the 5K. That's my take.
Speaker 1:Wow. So where do you see? Obviously you're going to do some more Golden Trail Series races. Obviously, series Zanall is not a short race, it's a pretty long one. It's funny people don't really know it goes from a place called Siri to a town called Zanall. Nobody gets that. I don't know Pretty cool. Crazy how that's named. It's crazy how it works out right. But like, do you see yourself more trending in that 50K and up distance? Or like, where do you, where do you find your sweet spot, kind of going forward in your career?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I don't see myself going significantly longer than the 50K as of yet, just because I'm not quite ready to let go of those shorter distances and I'm not quite ready to let go of my leg speed and I know it wouldn't disappear forever. But I think you know, once you trend upward far enough, it's a lot harder to kind of recover those speed legs. I don't think I'll do track and 50k training in the same year, but I do foresee myself at some point going back to track or at least to like the road 10k, um. So I don't feel ready to make that transition upwards past 50k quite yet. So I think for now, um, yeah, sub ultra to you know, occ is about the range I'm looking for.
Speaker 2:Um, I think also with sub ultra because I haven't been satisfied with any of those races yet. That shows me that I have a pretty large margin for improvement and that's something I want to chase If I feel like, hey, I have a shot at doing significantly better here. I don't found the right combination of you know strategy of fueling, of maybe training things like that. I'm like, okay, there are things I can refine to improve at this distance and I'm not going to give up on that until I feel like I've actually kind of exhausted my potential there Plus.
Speaker 1:So interesting. Sorry, sorry, no, no Go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, sorry, no, no, go ahead, no, you, you first. Oh, thanks, I was just going to say, you know, especially the longer distances will still be there. You know, I think it's pretty well known to everybody that you know, being older only increases your competitiveness in those longer events. It's like the 100K, the 100 mile that's going to be there for me, you know, like that's. My ability to compete in those events isn't, is only going to increase from here. Um, so I'm not in a rush to get there, I'll get there when I get there. You know, maybe I'll be eating my words in two years, depending on what I go for in the world cycle. Um, but you know, as it stands right now, I think I still have room for improvement, both in sub ultra and the 50k.
Speaker 1:And you know, I want to focus there and see what can happen, and I think you're smart to do it. I don't know what it is with the American scene, but there's always this push to move up in distance where it's like, especially as a sub ultra guy and someone that covers sub ultra, yeah, I hate even calling it sub ultra. No, no, williams actually corrected me on this recently. We're talking about it and he's like it's mountain running. In europe they just call it mountain running and that's what it is. I was like, dude, you're right, um, but anyway, that's a different conversation. I, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I just I don't know why us, as americans, always want to move up into these like crazier, longer distances where it's like so much more competitive, like down in the lower, like mountain classics and this golden trail stuff like that, it's so much more competitive. And then when you move up, obviously like the fields thin out a little bit when you get to the you know the longer distances, um, but like up until the 50k, like you know, that's where the fields are at and it's a hard thing to learn like. I feel like it's. It's there's a lot of a big learning curve, like it takes a couple years, if not more. I feel like to figure out, like, for instance, like I did the circ series, the whole circuit year, and I'll hopefully do more this year, but like just figuring out how to like assert yourself into the race in the beginning, because if you don't, you're, you're, it's gone for you.
Speaker 1:So and it's essentially like a track meet in a lot of ways where, yeah, like you're, if you don't put yourself in the grace right away, it's over. So, yeah, I think there's a substantial learning curve in a lot of ways to these mountain classics and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there. You know there's a lot of learning to do when you're running at what feels like, you know what feels like a track effort, what feels like a 3k or a 5k type effort, but then doing it for two hours, and a good portion of that two hours is running 10 minute pace give or take, and it still feels like the hardest thing you've ever done. You know there's a lot of both mental and physical relearning that comes with racing like that. And you know, to an extent I think it might have hampered my transition to jump so quickly and aggressively into pretty much exclusively very high competition races. I mean pretty much everything I did last year was, you know, a broken arrow, was a golden trail, was a UTMB world major. You know I didn't give myself a lot of opportunity to do races where I was going to inherently be more in the race. So I just had a lot of experiences Like what you were saying was I'm out of the race by 5k in because I can't hang on to Joyce and Madalena and.
Speaker 2:Lauren, you know, and it was this mental relearning of okay, how do I race like this and how do I stay competitive, while also like just learning what to do you know Um so, like I've been trail running my whole life, I've been trail running, you know, since I was six years old. I did my first trail race. The same year I did my first 5k. Um, but it's a really big difference just trail running and hopping into your local trail race versus getting on the line at golden trail night and day, you know.
Speaker 1:It's so funny Like I I messed with my it's a shout out to my brother-in-law Like he lives in upstate New York and he runs a lot of these like local races and he like wins a lot of them. Like dude, go run something competitive, like like let's, let's see what. You know, I think people get like the misunderstanding of just like how like the pointy, how fast it really is, and these are real like professional athletes and like these are. You know, it's no joke. Like these athletes can be professional at many other things as well. It's not just trail running. So yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like many of these athletes you could, you know, some of them have a really strong road background, which I was not that surprised to find out. But you know, hearing like you could put this athlete in a road marathon and they would still be quite dominant. I mean, I think it's most apparent with you know, this crop of american women who men too, but, like you know, part of a large group of american women around my age, give or take a couple years, who have made the transition from ncaa and still, you know, step foot on the road, step foot on the track, you step foot on the track. You see, like this is an athlete who can be dominant at anything she does like that, you know, I think needs more recognition beyond just one of those disciplines.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, and I could just shows how strong the, yeah, the the field is in at the top of trail. Um, and yeah, not to disparage anybody who predominantly runs local trail no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Do your thing, you know you probably win more prize money than I do. But I just think people don't realize like it's sometimes, like just how like it's it's, it's, it's not a joke like it's, it's like it's not like people aren't just jogging around in the woods anymore. It's like you know when Like it's. It's like it's not like people aren't just jogging around in the woods anymore.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, when you have, yeah, and it's just interesting Like we have seen a lot of it like yourself, dude, anna Gibson, lauren Gregory, like there's so many amazing at like women that you know do the track trail thing and it's like they crush it. But I think Madalena Floria I can't remember what her marathon time is, but she's a legit marathoner Like there's, yeah, it's. It's crazy how deep like um, yeah, the women's fields have just gotten crazy in the last few years, which is kind of cool. Like the, uh, just the. The depth is deep now, which is wild.
Speaker 2:It's cool I've been the fact that I wish I would've gotten here like a year or two sooner, but cause I? Yeah, I just feel like having having my kind of transition and learning years at such a competitive time has been a little bit tough, but it's also it's like, well, this is the most competitive historically that the sport has ever been, and so it's like you can't get too down on yourself. You know, to make honestly, to make myself feel better about Broken Arrow, I went back and looked at how my time would fare on other years, just to kind of like not cry in the shower more than once, um, even though I gave myself, I gave myself one.
Speaker 2:You get one cry in the shower, um, and then after that, we, we move on uh fair enough.
Speaker 1:Um, and what was the time? I'm sure you would top 10, top five time, and any other one place I would have been last year.
Speaker 2:Let's hear it. I think third or fourth.
Speaker 1:See, there you go, Most competitive 50 K at probably ever on American soil, which is is bananas. So yeah. Yeah, do you have unfinished business broken air? I know you've raced there a few times now. You think you'll go back next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, none of my races have been what I wanted them to be. Um, I think I, yeah, I've raised, I guess, yeah, I've raised a VK 23K and 46K now. Um, and I wasn't that happy with any of those. Um, it's definitely unfinished business, you know, and it's also it's an iconic event. Um, it's a very well run event. Sorry, excuse me, um, like Brendan does a phenomenal job. Um, and you know it's always going to hold a complicated place in my heart because, you know, it was kind of the first kick in the ribs jumping into the trail world and realizing that it was going to be a harder transition than I thought. But at the same time, it was also my first kind of real deep, competitive trail race that I ever did, um, you know. So it's like I'm going to go back to it as much as I can. You know what I do next year? I'm not sure, probably probably 46.
Speaker 1:K redemption time. We'll see.
Speaker 2:One of these days I'll do the. I'll do the triple. That'll be cool, Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, triple's dope. I don't know how people do it. That's so many laps like that's. That's, that's three laps more than I really want to do around that thing like that's I don't know what you mean.
Speaker 2:Three laps, that's not a lot of laps right, that's so many. My track brain says it's only three laps especially like it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a hard course to nail too. It's funny, like I. You see people come back every year trying to figure it out and some people like have made their careers off of it and had immense success. Like it's, it's definitely one of the most premier and has become like the premier mountain race in the united states and like you know the ruts up there as well. But I think just what broken arrow has been able to do and brandon with them like just yeah, it's crazy. I want to pivot a little bit.
Speaker 1:I ask you a boulder question. Like boulder is like so I live in the springs and it's like we've got this like really good dichotomy of like elite runners and like there's not that many of them, but we're there, we're here like there's, it's, it's nice, it's good training ground, but like boulder's saturated, there's a lot of people doing a lot of epic shit. Is it hard? Is it like, do you put pressure on yourself living in a place like that, or is it? Is it easy? Like I know there's always somebody to get out with, but like being injured, it's gotta be difficult. Like how, how does, how does how? Do you balance that, if you will?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean honestly, coming from the college environment, being here is way less pressure, honestly. Um, just because you know I'm, I'm not part of a team anymore. Um, so you know, I, I have friends and I have training partners and you know, can'm, I'm not part of a team anymore. So you know, I, I have friends and I have training partners and, you know, can hardly go anywhere without running into at least one person. You know, right. But I feel like, because it's no longer that team environment of you meet up with the same people every day at the same time and you're doing the same things, that to me is just a more inherently comparative environment, whereas here, you know, like my primary training partners are Lauren and Allie and we're well, even if we're training for the same events, we're not always doing the exact same training. You know, allie and I are both coached by David and Lauren is coached separately. So just by that nature we're not going to line up. And then you know, allie and I often have kind of different leanings in up. And then you know, allie and I often have kind of different leanings in terms of distances, and you know she's doing track right now and I'm not, so I think it feels less pressured and less of a comparison game because, at least for me, I'm not doing the same thing as anybody else. So how can I compare myself? You know, sometimes I have to take a little bit of a break from Strava and just not look at what other people are doing, because I think that sometimes can have the tendency to make you feel bad about what you're doing If you perceive someone else's training as superior.
Speaker 2:When I say superior, I don't mean like better coach, but I just mean like, oh, her workout was better than mine today, so she must be in better shape. And I'm like Sarah, you did a trail workout with 45 minutes of workout volume. Somebody else did a track workout of speed reps. Why are you comparing that? There is no comparing that, you know. Yeah, no, no, yeah, your pace was slower, so what? But you did something entirely different. So I think that for me has been honestly really good mentally. And I, you know, I've only lived here for a year. I moved here for the community and that was more than worth it. You know I loved my time in Fort Collins, but I think it just would have been a little bit tougher post-collegiately having what I was looking for training wise.
Speaker 1:Oh, it makes sense, I got to ask you, like training with Lauren and Allie, like two. You know crushers, everybody's got their own like there's, they have strengths, you have strengths. Is is like how, what is it like like running with them and training with them, like as as friends and peers, and and you know competitors at points like how, how does that mix?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so fun. Um yeah, I mean, we mostly just do easy days together, um, because very rarely do our workouts ever align, you know, and sometimes the closest is we all go to the same place and do separate workouts, um, so I think in that way, you know, there's not really this feeling of competitiveness between us.
Speaker 2:um, you know, I think I don't want to sell myself short, but I'm also very aware of the fact that you know I am, I'm the, I'm the least known and I'm the least, at this point, accomplished of the three of us, but I don't really like, I wouldn't look at it like that at all, like it's I mean, but I don't, I don't have that get to me, because it's just like the best way to get better is to train with people who are better than you, um, and if anything like that's inspirational to me, like getting to be around people who've, you know, accomplished things that are, you know, hopefully, future goals for me, like that's inspiring. You know that, accomplish things that are, you know, hopefully, future goals for me Like that's inspiring, you know that's cool, um, and I feel like kind of honored and flattered that I get to be part of that group, you know, and amazing, like amazing human beings, um, and we have so much fun and we just yap it up for miles at a time, um, you know, and did.
Speaker 1:You guys should start a podcast, the three of you that would be. That would be cool. Oh, we should. There's an idea.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm actually at Allie's house right now, so I'll tell her when I go upstairs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 2:We should start a podcast. That would be. That'd be a great time. So you've had some YouTube videos together and those are a hoot, um, but yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun. I feel really lucky to kind of have fallen in with this group and there's other folks I uh meet up with me, up and run with too, and they're awesome. Um, and you know, sometimes, like honestly, the hardest part for me is, um, working outside of running. I think, you know, balancing that with every other little piece that goes into being a professional athlete is probably the most difficult part. You know, I've spent pretty much the entire day on my feet. That's really hard with recovery, you know, and those those are, I think, are the bigger challenges compared to kind of being surrounded by elite people, cause that's just inspiring, yeah, yeah, you're only going to get better.
Speaker 1:Like that's exactly's just inspiring, yeah, yeah, you're only going to get better. Like that's exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like it's only going to help me improve um, and you know, fighting the imposter syndrome is kind of real sometimes. But you know, I think that's part of kind of just jumping headfirst into this world of professional running like there's always going to be somebody who is better than you and it's no use in looking down on yourself, you just have to look forward, at where you're going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all progression. It's all just like how good can I make myself, how much?
Speaker 2:can I?
Speaker 1:improve every day, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like what can I learn from the people that I'm around? You know how can we help each other?
Speaker 1:How do you, how do you like, working with David? You, how do you like working with David? I'd love David Like he's, david's, like the. He's a character. Um, I think he coaches like every person I've ever had on the podcast, which is also kind of funny. Like what um like, how do you like like all the stuff that he does and like his workouts that he gives you and stuff like that. Like the program, like how's it like working with him?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's great. Yeah, I mean I think it was like the best possible transition out of college because you get daily interaction with him, cause you know I'm so used to the environment of my coach sees me every day, my coach talks to me every day. There's, you know, just kind of constant back and forth and feedback and interaction. Obviously, unless you're part of a pro group that also has an in-person coach. That's just not possible anymore. And David is really the next best thing.
Speaker 2:You know like he gives meaningful and constructive and honestly like really hype feedback you know and that helps build confidence in what I'm doing, even though a lot of what I do is kind of a solo effort with very little to compare it to. So you know, I'm used to a numbers-based world, I'm used to paces and, um, you know, specifically distanced reps. I'm used to this very numerical, very objective world, and so sometimes, as an athlete jumping into trail training, it's harder to find satisfaction in what I do, and David is really good about letting me know, like, the value of what I've done. Um, yeah, and he, oh boy does he give some doozies of workouts, and I mean that in the best way. It's awesome. That's why you guys are all really good.
Speaker 1:He makes you guys better.
Speaker 2:It's it's.
Speaker 1:It's funny when he writes stuff like on Instagram or whatnot, like I read it in his voice, Like I think of like him actually say like and I can imagine, like when you guys with a training sheet, like I could just imagine like that's how David's like talking about I don't know, that's kind of funny.
Speaker 2:Yes, a hundred percent, like the caps, the exclamation points, all of it. Yeah, a hundred percent. That is. That is exactly what his written feedback looks, looks like. But yeah, it's been great. It's definitely.
Speaker 2:You know, learning an entirely new style of training to match an entirely new style of competing has come with its ups and downs, but I think, you know, david has been very communicative as to here's what we're doing, here's why we're doing it, here are the mechanisms behind this, here are the adaptations that it's going to help you have. You know, he's helped me dial my in race nutrition. He's given me suggestions when I've asked whether it be for medical professionals, whether it be, you know, for fueling, um, all of that. And yeah, it's just, it's been a very positive experience.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, I don't ever have to doubt whether or not he believes in me. Um, because he does. And having a coach who just is intrinsically in your corner means a lot, especially with my background, because I think, you know, the hardest thing for me would be to be back in the place of doubting whether my coach thinks I'm worth it or not. And you know, even though David has a million and one things on his plate with, with the kiddos, you know, his whole family, his own training and racing and traveling, the hundreds of athletes that he works with, his podcast, all of that, like he still finds the time to make me feel valued and that goes a really long way, big time I think that's part of the secrets is his success, like in a lot of ways, is just making everyone feel like when he's talking to you, he just makes everyone feel very special.
Speaker 1:He's a good coach, super cool. Where are we at? We're about an hour. All right, I'm going to end with some questions. I'm very curious. I decided to bring these back.
Speaker 2:I got away from them for a while and then I started bringing them back. I'm curious to see who inspires you. Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 1:Well, I can start by giving you my two um my two childhood role models.
Speaker 2:They're both named steve, steve and steve, yeah, um, erwin and prefontaine uh, you know, one I think is the typical runner role model, um, and the other, you know, I've I've been a snake and lizard kid from day one, um, but more than that, like it's just one of those people that I guess they're both people that were just very, very full of life and they did what they were passionate about, and sometimes it was pretty and sometimes it wasn't, but they lived to the fullest. And I think you know, that's something that I've tried to do is it's like a lot of parts of this journey have really not been pretty at all, like they've been messy and heartbreaking and difficult, um, you know, and just taking all of that and just knowing that it's kind of it's part of the beauty of the whole picture. Um, that's big and yeah, and in terms of I mean, this is going to be such a cliche answer I hope she's listening upstairs, allie inspires me a lot actually, you know, I think to have the spotlight on you from such a young age and to be faced with so many expectations of your abilities and to struggle so much physically and mentally and emotionally and to come out the other side even better than before. There's not a lot of people, there's not a lot of personality, there's not a lot of spirits that could do that. Um, and getting to be so close with somebody who has accomplished so much in spite of so much is a really inspiring thing.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and I again, being part of the college circuit, I've known a lot of people who have struggled a lot and who have suffered a lot, sometimes completely in silence and sometimes with more of outward expression. But either way, getting to watch people go through hard things and, yeah, come out the other side stronger, whether it's stronger in running or stronger as a person or stronger in their convictions about, you know, some aspect of their life Like that's inspiring to me, like that's special, you know.
Speaker 1:That's a good answer. That's a good one. Thanks, I'm going to end on that one, cause that one, that one, that was too too good, too good of an answer to like pass on although I gotta say ally is definitely inspiring a big shout out. It's big steve irwin fan, also a big steve irwin fan yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be crocodile hunter when I grew up. That was my first. That was my first childhood dream.
Speaker 1:Then I switched to running I wanted to be a marine biologist and I was like like the biggest like fan of steve's yeah, it's a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2:But um, we can do that podcast too. I can bring snakes. There we go, you know, oh man, like I still remember when I still remember where I was.
Speaker 1:When I found out steve passed, I was so upset. I think I was in. Maybe I was like in the eighth grade or a freshman in high school. I was young, I was it was a long long ago and far away, but yeah, yeah, big steve fan. Yeah, I was like I was looking for the crocodile hunter on discovery plus the other day and I couldn't find it. It was a little upset.
Speaker 2:It's not there. Well, I guess I don't have discovery plus, but I would love to watch it again, and that was like I didn't watch a lot of TV growing up, but that was the one.
Speaker 1:Oh, crocodile hunter. Yeah, wild man Just chasing, jumping on crocodiles, cool stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to go like flip over boards along the bike path um you was growing up to try and find uh, reptiles and amphibians and did the voice like crikey, and you grew up in arizona, so like you.
Speaker 1:I mean there's probably rattlesnakes all over the place, right?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, I had a few skins in our garage that's crazy went scorpion hunting with um like the uv lights because they did the luminesce um. That was pretty cool. So I had a pet tarantula growing up. That was awesome.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm terrified of spiders. No way. I found a wolf spider the other day in my house and cried like a baby oh, cool, as long as it's not a black widow or a brown recluse.
Speaker 2:You're fine. I grew up in Florida, so like we had- oh, you got the nasty critters.
Speaker 1:That's yeah and it's. It's not not a better one, by any means.
Speaker 2:That, that, that that's a fair point. I've seen some videos of of Florida critters and like Ooh.
Speaker 1:I've seen a couple of gators working at a running camp down there and I was like, oh, that's nice Gators are cool Gators aren't bad, it's the like everything else Like yeah, like snakes, like just crazy amount of like we have like water moccasins and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, coral.
Speaker 1:Coral snakes aren't bad. I've seen a few of those, yeah.
Speaker 2:At least they're visible, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a little bright. Yeah, I'm trying to think like I was always in the ocean, like diving. I got to have a bunch, but like not a lot of sharks, not so fun. Yeah, not a lot of. Really appreciate it. This was a great conversation. Wish you the best of luck on your Euro trip. It's going to be pretty rad. When do you leave? Pretty soon 28th Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so speaking to Sydney, sydney, taylor and I are all traveling together, nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's going to be a big third wheel trip for Sarah. My boyfriend can't go and get himself healthy yet to race, but hopefully soon.
Speaker 1:Fair enough Fair enough. Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed for that Cool. Well, listen. Thank you so much and I'll get this out in the next couple of days.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate it, and have a good rest of your week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you too. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode. I want to thank Sarah so much for coming on the podcast. Like I said, this was a great conversation and I just really appreciate that she was being, you know, just being candid and being open, telling your story. Um, you know, I think a lot of the audience can probably take away just you know, uh, I think there's a lot of stories of, like, perseverance there and grit, and just, uh, being focused on one goal and being able to continuously, like, pursue it, um, with great enthusiasm. I think that there's there's a lot to take away from that, no matter what walk of or stage of life that you're in, um, or how you pursue athletics. So really appreciate Sarah for, uh, for coming on. So, guys, before you get going, you can find Sarah on Instagram. You can find her at Sarah, underscore Carter, underscore XC. That's Sarah S A R A H underscore Carter. C A R T E R underscore XC. Give her a follow, let her know what you guys thought about the episode and send her some words of encouragement as she takes on some big, crazy goals for the rest of her summer. And some more golden treasure, golden trail series, racing. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 1:Also, wherever you consume your podcast, whether that be Spotify, apple, youtube or a place I don't even know please give us a five-star rating and review. That would mean an absolute ton and, yeah, super appreciative. We've got some good stuff coming out. We've got a fun collaboration with the sub hub coming out in the next few weeks. That, I think, is going to be really fun. I think you guys will take a lot of excitement away, or take a lot of excitement. You'll be excited about it.
Speaker 1:And yeah, very last housekeeping thing If, um, you guys are interested in new pack or belt, whatever, uh, ultimate directions got you covered, uh, 25% off. You can just code steep stuff pot at checkout, um, and it's definitely a good deal. If you guys are trying to get a new vest, hydration, so any type of hydration solution belts, uh, the comfort belt um is a dope one. I've been, I've been rocking with lately, um, and same with the utility belt. So some good stuff there. So, guys, have a great rest of your week. Really appreciate you uh following along. Thanks so much. Thank you. We'll see you next time.
