The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#109 - Courtney Coppinger
What happens when an elite athlete rejects pressure and runs purely for joy? Courtney Coppinger's remarkable transformation from burned-out track star to trail running standout offers a blueprint for finding success through authenticity and boundary-setting.
A Kansas native and All-American steeplechaser at the University of Kansas, Courtney's path took unexpected turns after representing Team USA internationally in 2019. She candidly shares her journey through multiple "retirements" from professional running, the personal struggles that led to identity crises, and the profound healing that ultimately brought her back to the sport—but on entirely different terms.
The turning point came when Courtney set an uncompromising boundary for herself: no nervousness, no pressure, no expectations. This radical shift in mindset coincided with joining the Brooks team, where she was refreshingly honest about wanting to be valued as a person and mentor first, rather than promising championship results. What followed was startling—a breakout 2025 season featuring podium finishes, race victories, and ultimately selection to represent Team USA at the World Mountain Running Championships.
Beyond the trail results, Courtney offers wisdom about balancing athletic pursuits with wholeness, describing how she's found fulfillment through coaching (co-founding Wild Rights coaching collective with Grayson Murphy and Rachel Tomajczyk), community-building, and embracing a life outside corporate constraints. Her perspective on success as something flowing from joy rather than striving provides a refreshing counterpoint to traditional athletic narratives.
Whether you're battling burnout, questioning your relationship with competition, or simply seeking a more sustainable approach to performance, Courtney's story demonstrates how honoring your authentic self can lead to unexpected breakthroughs—in running and in life.
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What's up, boys and girls, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lariello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with Courtney Coppinger Probably first team, all badass this year. It's been really exciting to follow Courtney's season in 2025. I gotta say Courtney kind of came onto the scene for me this year when she got a fourth place finish at the Sun of Peace Scramble just off of the Mountain Classic team where she ran an absolutely amazing race, put on a clinic. From there she went on to double first place both of the GoPro Games 10K as well as the Pepe's Face-Off, and then getting a top five finish at the Tape Pack Trail, at the Golden Trail Series race in Mexico, at the Golden Trail Series race in Mexico, and then to top it all off with the cherry to be selected to take Grayson Murphy's place on the Mountain Classic team for this year's World's Team going to Canfrank in Spain.
Speaker 1:Courtney has been an absolute heater and it was exciting just to get her backstory to talk about her whys, what drives her, what excites her about the sport. You know what has led to just such an amazing season this year. You know we talked a little bit about joining the Brooks team. We talked about a lot of things. This is a really exciting episode and it was just an honor to be able to have a conversation with her on the podcast, because I've become such a big fan over the last few months. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. You know, courtney has just an amazing story and I think you'll get a lot out of this one. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy Courtney Coppinger. It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are live.
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Speaker 1:So pop on over to ultimate directioncom. They have you covered for all your hydration solutions. Use code steep stuff pod for 25% off. Again, that's steep stuff pod one word for 25% off. Ultimate directions got you covered and if you have any questions, shoot me a DM, let me know. I'd be happy to answer any product related questions for you guys. So thanks so much. Check out ultimate direction, courtney Coppinger. Welcome back to, or welcome to, the steep stuff podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's going well, I'm happy to be here and uh, yeah, it's. Uh. What is it? Wednesday, thursday? Oh my gosh, I looked out of my days now Summer.
Speaker 1:Same same, same Um. Yeah, I'm so happy we're able to put this together. Like, like I said, I uh called your race at Sunapee um with Danny and MK and like since then I've been such a big fan and you know everything you've been doing this season, like definitely like first team, all honors, and now that you're made the world's team, I'm like, ah, this is a great opportunity to have a learn more about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, uh, maybe for the audience, like, let's do, let's do like the the background, talk about kansas a little bit, talk about um, steeplechase, talk about college things like that yeah, sure, I'm a midwest native, so from kansas city and uh went the kansas pipeline so I ran for university of kansas and kind of developed into a steeplechaser and then got the opportunity. I ran five years and I would say I was I didn't believe in myself or my coach or my program really into the last year and I really bought in and kind of had like a you know, world altering year for myself and got the opportunity to be All-American and set the school record in college which then ultimately catapulted me into the professional running track circuit. I graduated in 2018 and moved to Flagstaff, arizona, to pursue running and my graduate degree at NAU, which worked really well hand in hand, and so I was able to jump into some pro teams out there, had a few opportunities with a few different teams, ultimately landed at the very beginning of the dark sky distance team which is supported by Under Armour now back in like 2019. And then r the pro circuit for a bit on the steeple chase I went and represented the U S? Um back in 2019, um, my first international team and steeple.
Speaker 2:And then kind of classic COVID hit and your whole world changes again and got burned out of feeling like I was a hamster running on a wheel and ultimately like have a kind of a funny story of how I got into the trail world but was in Flagstaff in the mountains and ended up running some trails and then ultimately leaving the track for a little bit and then I've been flirting with kind of the hybrid sort of deal sense, um, but yeah, I mean there's like a lot there that you can go into. But that's the long story super short.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing. Let's get back to college. I do want to talk about what your experience was, running D1 and running at a big school like Kansas, especially the steeple as well. Can you talk a little bit about your experience there? Like, I know so many athletes that have gone D1 and it's usually really split Like, uh, it's very 50, 50. Some people have really bad experiences and some people have amazing experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's super fair question. Um, I had an absolutely lovely experience, like I. If I were to redo it over and over again, I would pick the same program, same place, same people. Um, I was recruited right after the program had won um, they were coming off the national championship win and track, and so I was being recruited during that season and so they, like, when they won the track and field championships in 2013, they were really, uh, focused on, like you know, sprints and um field events and wanted to build out their distance team, and so I was recruited with, I think, eight or nine of us, which is a big incoming freshman class um, and we kind of changed the distance program um, for for the better. We ended up qualifying the team in 2015 for the national championships in cross country and, uh, that had been the first time that that that cross country had qualified for nationals, since, I want to say, it was over 20 years, if not more, and so, um, that was really big um kind of marker there.
Speaker 2:We also, um, I was a part of the team with bryce hopple and sharon locati and got to see, you know, sharon kind of pave her way and who she is today, as an airthoner and bryce said now, you know, both of them are olympians, finishing super high in the olympics, and I was kind of right there with them and us three really kind of had a lot of momentum of like, hey, you guys, we can come from not a lot and do a lot with this if you buy in and trust. And I think the majority of the reason why we're able to change that program for the better was instilling a really healthy culture. You know, you say there's a split in the NCAA and a lot of my friends if not most of my friends that have been part of big D1 programs have been caught up in really poor culture on teams and my coach did a really good job too. And I would say our incoming freshman class, the eight or nine of us like did a really good job to hone in on proper, uh, culture that just was sustainable and long-term and ultimately for each other.
Speaker 2:And then, if any at any point, any person kind of got out of line with that or struggled in a way which you know is going to happen, with whatever eating disorders or, you know, team gossip, whatever it is that just so classic in the running world. I think we were able to like have a really strong foundation and core to that team, and that um ultimately made my experience really exciting and healthy and and really positive overall. My sister actually she's four years young or five years younger than me when I graduated she was an incoming freshman to that same team, and so it was really cool because we've had um up up until last year 10 years of the coppinger girls running on in that program, which is really cool. So, um, yeah, it's, it was a really positive experience that's so cool.
Speaker 1:When you were being recruited like was kansas number one on your like how? How was the school listing like, was there other schools you wanted to go? Like, how does how does the? I didn't, obviously didn't go D1. What was your like experience like in the recruitment process?
Speaker 2:Like, oh, my gosh crazy. It's like blast from the past. I haven't asked this question in so long. It's so good, okay.
Speaker 2:So I went to an all girls, a private Catholic school, um, high school. And so I thought, oh well, this is what I know and this is what I want. So I'm going to kind of put out feelers and respond to the coaches that are from the small private schools and I'm going to get the heck out of Dodge, I'm going out of Kansas, I'm going far away. So I visited the most random plethora of schools. It's not even worth mentioning because it's just truly so random. And now I look back and laugh at that, because my father was the one that was like you should make sure that this is great and I love this for you and you're getting recruited there and you're going to get school paid for Awesome, love it. But make sure you go in and just see a state school Coach. Know, coach Wood is recruiting you. You should just go and see. It's right down the road, you can go whatever.
Speaker 2:And so I was like, okay, yeah, I'll go. And I went and I was like, oh, okay, so I see why people go to these big state schools. There's so many more resources there, you know, like the athletic facilities, the academics that they had, surely they weren't the same as these, like tiny small schools that were more academic focused. But I found my niche ultimately like in, you know, like a bigger school making it much smaller, and like my ultimate decision was, honestly, it's so funny and I was like, if I can get into the honors program at KU, then I can make this big school small and I'll totally be sold on it.
Speaker 2:And I ended up getting in and um, and that was like gave me the ammunition to be like, okay, you can also focus on academics and athletics at a school. Um, that would, we will help you with both. So, yeah, that was like the recruiting process. I think it's so funny. I didn't even visit any other big state schools. I was recruited by a handful in the Midwest, but I never even gave them the time of day.
Speaker 1:Interesting as an honor student, like obviously, like it sounds like you took academics extremely serious. How hard was it to balance both that and running at a high level?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I feel like I'm a pretty driven person and like the more that I can take on usually the better. I am motivated with all the things, up until a point you know, like we're not invincible. But yeah, I love school, always love school. I'm the oldest of three girls and grew up kind of like teaching them in a classroom, thinking I would be a teacher one day and begging my mom to go and buy school workbooks at the teacher store so I could do them. And I'm not a brainiac, but I am someone that does really like academia and academics and end up pursuing a graduate degree to go and do that, and so yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1:Wow, so cool. Back to back to running. I, uh, I gotta ask why the steeplechase? Just because it's. It's so interesting to me looking backwards now at how many steeplers are so good at trail running and like why that transfer is so like, for some reason, so easy for a lot of steeplers, like why did you select the cheap or pick the steeplechase?
Speaker 2:So my coach in college said that he looks for two main things when he's, when he's recruiting within the team to to who will be like a steeple or, and he looks for someone that's not injury prone and someone that has a good, a good head on their shoulder.
Speaker 2:Someone that's like able to compete and like is a tough competitor. Um, and I think he saw that in me right right off the bat and and I and I had, you know, kind of been steeple, curious, like right away as a freshman, and um started just hopping in with the older girls and doing some drills and and whatnot. And then, you know, ultimately, like I it was where I found, like that was my thing. Um, also, if, like, you see any sort of live stream or any photo of any time me running, I tower over most of the women, especially I don't even know like someone the other day was like I saw a photo of you on the golden trail, start of mexico, and you were just like 10 feet taller than everybody and that's truly correct. Like I'm not that tall, but I feel like runners are very short we all are how tall are you?
Speaker 2:I'm like around five, nine okay that's pretty tall, yeah, but. I swear my legs are five feet of that and so, um that, you know that was also very. It lends itself well to the sequel. It was like, oh yeah, the 30 foot, whatever, like jumps are a step for me, whereas the other girls I was competing against I felt like, had you know, they were running faster than me, but they had a bit more of a hop to do over that.
Speaker 1:That's true. That's true. Having long legs makes it so much easier. I'm not very tall and my wife's always like why are you so good at running? Because you're so short.
Speaker 2:I'm like thanks, I really appreciate that. Well, honestly, like in a trail world, the short, small steps really help as soon as it gets really steep. I think I have a disadvantage because I'm just super long.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny you say that because Allie Mack super tiny, like super long. So well, it's funny you say it Cause, like Allie Mack, super tiny the first time I saw like El Housine and like Patrick Patrick's really little too, like they're not very big at all. So, yeah, it's, it's interesting why like, yeah, most, like really like high end professional runners are actually very tiny. It's interesting. Um, I gotta ask you this question just cause I ask it to every stapler why do you think that transfers so well to trail running?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think it's because, like, our brains like are like okay, don't throw me in a 30 lap flat race. Like give me something that I can, that can make it more fun. It's like something that can spice it up, um, and that's where I felt like I, like I shine shown, and it was like the jumps were the fun part where you could you. There's like strategy with it, just like running downhill on a super techie trail race. There's strategy in it and it's like how are you going to come off that water jump? How are you going to come off that descent? Um, and so I feel like we're kind of all wired in a way that was like that was really fun and a thrill for us.
Speaker 1:So cool as a like D1 steeple or D1, just any of d1 athlete. Like how are you? How was your goal setting? Like like were you? Was it to achieve the old american standard? Like, was it nationals? Like how do you guys think? Or how were you thinking, like in the program?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think that's. That is like. Uh, the answer to that is like it was a five-year process for me, especially just like within the ncaa five years of figuring out who I was and how I was going to compete and how I was going to train. I had a really rocky first three, three and a half, four years, um, and you know, just like finding my headspace and not getting super nervous and being able to maintain the training and, um, it took until really that fifth year and I had alluded to it of like true belief in myself and in my coach and my team in a way that allowed me to like kind of take a step back on the like nerves and relax a little bit into it and know, okay, I'm going to like step up on the starting line. I actually now remember where this mindset changed. This is crazy that you asked me that question.
Speaker 2:Okay, so there's a Boston, uh like BU meet in December every year and it's like where the NCAA stars go and qualify early on coming off the cross country season, trying to 5k, to qualify them for 5k indoors, um, indoor champs later in that next year, and my coach asked me during my last year to go and pace that race for Sharon. And around that time it was like Chris Schweizer and Sharon were crushing the 5K, 10k scene in the NCAA and I was flown out there with Sharon and my coach to pace all these NCAA stars to get their national championship qualifier. I mean, grayson Murphy probably was in that race too. And I remember the whole process of like okay, am I good enough to even be here to pace these girls? And like, I had such a like revelation during that time because I stepped up on the line. I paced them you know whatever it was a mile halfway, whatever stepped off, watched them finish and I came up to my coach and I was like huh, those girls are no different than me. And he goes I've been trying to tell you that for three years. He's like you're right there. And I kind of get chills even recalling that, because I think that was a big mindset shift for me of like, oh wait, I deserve to be there and I'm just as good as them. And it's even fun to kind of be the underdog and I think a lot of the success I've had in 2025 kind of comes from reminding myself of that headspace. It's fun to be the underdog and be like no one's betting on me but I'm just as good as these people, so let me show them.
Speaker 2:And so I think my goal setting process came from really just trying to find out, uh like, where that headspace and that mental space could take me. Um, I knew I was fit and I knew I was a competitor, and so I was like, okay, let's lean into those really big strengths that I have and and try to pull out of being freaked out from races. Um like, pull away from that headspace and then lean into the competitive grittiness. And that ultimately got me, you know, and my coach by the end was like you are able to accept the school record, you're able to be all American. And I think I truly started believing that it wasn't something that I, you know, set out to college and it was like I'm going to be an all American.
Speaker 2:Even to this day, I say I've never even stepped into the pro world saying I want to be an Olympian. It was never my goals. My goals were always like trying to be realistic with where I was at and what could be obtained in that season, because the seasons change and your fitness change and your mind space changes and your job change, everything changes, and so you have to be. You know, I'm somebody that's super flexible and I think the rigorous athletes that like put their head down and you know, like Olympian or bust, I really respect, because that's a whole different breed. But I think in that time I I really had to discern that I was separate than that I was different and uh, so what was going to work for me was was something different, and so it was more like piecemeal, of like okay, you qualified for regionals, you've been at regionals before, why not go to nationals? You're right there. Okay, we'll go to nationals. And You're right there, okay, we'll go to nationals. And now it's like, okay, let's be all American, you're ready to be there.
Speaker 1:And so you know, it's not maybe the typical way of setting goals, but, um, it works for me and um, yeah, it might be hard to describe this, just because I don't know, maybe you think about it a lot, maybe you don't, but like that's kind of rarefied air to become an all-american like, how do you, how do you view that? Like, how does that? Is that something like you think about a lot, or is it no, something I did and like, oh, it's in the past?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't think about it often. It's so funny that you're asking me questions about it, because I'm like this is so funny, I like don't even. You know, the only time ever gets brought up is really with other people where they're like, oh, she's all American civil change and I'm like, yeah, I guess I totally forget. Um and uh, yeah, I mean it doesn't like it is one of the highlights of my career, but it isn't like something that I'm going to die on. Like, oh, at least I got that, you know, because, again, it's all about the mindset of the sport and, um, if I didn't have that, I think I'd still be happy.
Speaker 1:So cool. Let's talk about going pro after college, like moving out to Flagstaff doing the NAU, going to school, and doing that Were you. You were going to school while also running at a professional level, balancing both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started my PhD at NAU and while I started that I started joining kind of groups on Flagstaff. I had a relationship with Ben Rosario, who's also from the Midwest and had, you know, at that point started the NAZ Elite and was the head coach there and so joined their group for I think like six to eight months and so if you're connecting dots now you can see, okay, she was with Aaron Clark, she was with Grayson Murphy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so Rachel. Rachel too, like Rachel Smichak as well, or no?
Speaker 2:Rachel was out in Flagstaff at that time, not in that group, but we all started. You know, the wheels started to turn back in 2018, 2019, when we were all like, huh, are we built for this? Um, and so I trained with an AZ elite for a hot sec and realized that, um, the marathon life was not for me, not going to be a road 10 K girl of road marathoner. I still do not have any interest in doing that.
Speaker 1:And so, um, I training like is it the burn, like the burnout of the training? Like, what about it?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I yeah the training, but also just the race doesn't excite me, and I'm someone that's like the only way I'm going to get motivated to do anything. I'm just not the tip. I'm not your typical uh like high, strong type a athlete I am like my coach now is starting to get to know me more, but I told him from the beginning I was like I left my own accord, I wouldn't run, so I need someone to tell me go run. What excites you.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's you know the race is exciting me, so I'll get out the. I'll get the training done for the races and so, yeah, there's the marathon. Doesn't sound fun at all. Um, and so I trained with them for a little bit and then ended up joining the Under Armour team in 2019, coming off like a really strong year. I placed like seventh at the US champs that year and then got to represent the US for the first time, and so I do look back and see that that was a highlight of my career, was getting to go and I raced in Belarus, which is a really interesting place to compete, and yeah, so I was racing steeple with Under Armour 2019 on.
Speaker 1:That is so crazy. You wrote, I mean, a beautiful Instagram post about making and we'll talk about this when we talk about the world's team but about the last time you represented Team USA in 2019. I know you kind of went into the experience of Belarus, but maybe talk a little bit about that, because I feel like, yeah, trail running can be intense, but the stakes are not like what it's like running, uh, you know, basically track and field like at an extremely high level, like what? Uh, how much more pressure is on that or how different is it?
Speaker 2:well, I think there's a lot of pressure and it's really hard to go and make a world team in track and then compete. Well, you know, like you almost need that like one to get out of the way, and so I was like it was a sugar on top, like sprinkle on top of a really great season, right, like I like it wasn't expecting to make that team and it just kind of was like whoa, okay, well, now you have to train for two more months. Now you have to go and race at this high level. Now you have to go and like be wearing the U S kid on the track and, um, I mean, the experience was so special. Belarus, if any, if you know, it's just like a really one unique place and maybe a place that will forever be changed because of the political climate there now, and so when we went in 2019, it was right before all the airstrikes, it was right before, kind of the war time picked up and we might be, we might have been the last like really large group of sport oriented americans that were in that country and they actually were doing that event there as a way to appease the EU and try like it was a whole political thing, which was really cool to be a part of.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I mean I didn't compete well at it. I think I probably got dead last. I don't even know if I ever looked at that result, but the experience was valuable because you get to see like the individuals that are like four years, five years you're senior and that have just like been able, they're just dialed in it right and these are the people that have stuck around in the track and field world for a while and are competing at the highest level, you know, consistently a top five in the us and consistently making world teams. And and I think that was really special for me to like go there and be like big eyes, like oh my gosh, I'm just like, I'm just out of college, I don't really know what I'm doing, like this is so cool, um, yeah. And so I don't reflect on that experience all that often, but it is a nice nice to do that right now and makes me feel good.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is so cool and especially like the political aspect of it. Like you know Belarus, obviously you know a lot of political turmoil there, a lot of things going on in the world and the fact that like be the last team you know, sporting team slash, like even American team to go over there, that's wild and it's like a memory you'll have for the rest of your life, like something like you were in this place at this particular time, which is kind of kind of crazy to think about yeah, on the days I wasn't racing I was like riding on top of tanks and shooting machine guns at like the local, like museum thing.
Speaker 2:So it was crazy yeah oh yeah, it's like really post-soviet, like kind of oh yeah, oh my gosh, yes, super brutalist, yeah, I mean interesting.
Speaker 1:One of my best friends was born in Hungary and like he has the hammer and sickle like on his birth certificate, I like big fun of all the time about it. Anyway, it's different conversation, but like it is, it's year for you where you or I should say 2020-ish, because you said around COVID is kind of where you kind of stopped going professional and we're just kind of trying to find your place in the running world. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:think it was 2020. Yes, the end of 2020 was obviously covid and the golden trail series. They did this thing, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with and a lot of people don't realize they did this, but they still held their golden trail final. But the way to get there was to go and compete in these segments. You know, asynchronous. You just go and compete in a segment and the fastest person on these segments, these mountain segments around the us, around the world, will get flown out to the azores for the golden trail final.
Speaker 2:And I remember I had raced the sunset tour like a 1500 and back to back, like 1500 one week and the 1500 next week and PR the first week, pr the second week on a roll right and I come off of it and I come back to Flagstaff because I was in LA, come back to Flagstaff and like, for some reason, I'd taken three days off after 1500 and I just had this itch to go and do that segment and it was a 17-mile segment in the San Francisco peaks of Flagstaff, climby, technical way, high up all the things, and I just destroyed myself doing this. I mean I had never run 17 miles to begin with one. I remember I took one gel and couldn't even finish it. I mean, this is like I don't even know how many hour effort. I fell like multiple times and finished and just felt this like wave of euphoria. I was like, oh my gosh, that was the best thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2:Then I couldn't walk for three weeks after because I had never been more sore in my entire life because, like, I was strictly trained to run like a little hamster on a track. And then I just go and send this, send it like as hard as I could, hammer it, and you know, I had the leading time up until the last day and then somebody came and took it and and so I didn't end up going to the finals. But the the funny thing is I just like I think that got me hooked. You know, I just was like, oh, there's something there for me and like the fact that I've never done anything like this and had a fairly fast time. And, um, I was like, oh, this is cool and exciting and new and fresh and I need this.
Speaker 1:Wow, so many what ifs with that too. Like what happens if you would have cause? Like that was the year I think Wamsley went out of Flagstaff it was the one and only time we got Wamsley there, um, but like, just that was a really cool year and they made a great video about it. So a lot of what ifs on if you would have made it. But I mean, you're running the golden trail series basically now anyway, so it doesn't really matter. But still like if that would. That would have been a very easy transition right away had you just made it and gone from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the timing wasn't right, I guess, and that is all right yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Are you, do you? I see you training in Boulder now. Is that where you reside? You're training?
Speaker 2:in Boulder Very cool. Yeah, I just moved to Boulder.
Speaker 1:How do you like it so far?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I love it. I, you know, I've lived. I lived in Flagstaff for three years. I lived in Santa Barbara, california, for three years and then last year moved to the front range, um, last August, and then like golden area, and then just made the move up to Boulder a handful of weeks ago and I feel like it is, you know, the universe was just kind of pulling me here and since, going kind of full-time athlete and coach this year, I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to like do it the right way and be in the community and be able to build out community and, you know, with brands and people and everything here. And so, um, it's felt, you know, really right, and I have trails at my back door and so it's, it's lovely.
Speaker 1:So many good people to train with too. You've got Lauren Gregory there. You've a ton of folks Like it's it's. It's wild how many high level trail runners like in the scene right now like are residing and training at a Boulder, which is kind of cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have like a really good community. That's like, I don't know, good culture, good people here, um, which is fun, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's cool, you know it's funny. So going into the season like I had a rage, I had Rachel T on um. It was must've been right after it had to have been right after you guys got back from like either great China wall or I think it was one of the China, it was the China race.
Speaker 1:Um, and she had said to me, cause we were doing, we're just talking in passing and she had said, you know, like, when you're starting to, you know, courtney is a great person to talk to. And she was kind of giving me just like recommendations. And I'm thinking to myself I'm like Courtney, courtney, like why have I not come across you before? And so I place and like having an amazing race and amazing day, and I was like, oh, that makes sense. That's why, uh, you were recommended.
Speaker 1:So maybe let's talk about get into your season now and just kind of like, this year has been like a really pivotal year for you. Just on the scene, like not just Sunapee, you had a great race at China wall. Um, you know, now you're on the world's team and you're going to be going out to compete in, uh, ken Frank at September. Like, let's dive into that. Like, did you just shift your focus this year? Like you kind of said, yeah, I relocated to Boulder. I've been doing, you know, kind of going more professional in it. Like, is that what made the switch? Or like what, what has made the change for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a lot to that Um for you. Oh, there's a lot to that um. You know, I always joke and the people that know me best always joke with me about it but I have gone through like three different retirements in the sport, um, from like 2019 until basically last year. I had quit the sport for several different reasons, um, and so there's been like a lot of reworking mentally and internally, a lot of things that play into why this year is going the way it's going. Um, and I was basically, you know, in a spot where my mental health wasn't doing well and I was just caught up in like identity crises of like, oh my gosh, like, am I a runner? Am I, you know, pursuing my other career? Like, who am I? And being caught up in like the constant cycle of like having to get better and if you're not improving and you're not stepping on the line and winning, then you're an absolute failure. And so, going through massive upheavals and iterations of new, new me, you know, um, ultimately marked by like, uh, leaving a relationship that I needed to leave, um, uh, early last year, and part of all of that, you know, launched me into probably the hardest year and darkest season of my life, um, and you know, launched me into probably the hardest year and darkest season of my life. And you know, with the dark, really heavy times come a lot of growth and fruit, and I knew like I was in the pits and I knew I was in the tunnel, but I knew at the end of that there was going to be light and fruit and something was going to come out of this. Something was going to come out of this and so, through a lot of healing last year, um, and just like personal growth and therapy and all of the really hard things, uh, I started to come back into myself. Um, and then a lot of like that self that I was coming back into was like my little, little Courtney self of, like somebody who I knew, I knew well and had like feelings of and touches of over the last six, seven years, but lost sight of her, um, and so, coming into this, like actually ending 2024, I was still sponsored by Under Armour on the trail, um, and that sponsorship had ended and I, you know, basically was like, okay, I think this is the end of my running again and that's okay. Um, I've gone through a lot and I I don't really know what's next. And so I think this is just like a sign to give it up again and that's okay, like I've restarted my whole life. Um moved across the country, you know, met new community, new people, all the things. And so I'm like, well, this is just part of it, just part of this shedding and rebuilding in my life.
Speaker 2:And like, literally a few weeks after that sponsorship had ended, or I was told it was ending at the end of that year, I had a conversation, was reached out to by Adam Chase, who's in Boulder and he was building, helping build out the Brooks team for this year and they were really trying to invest in um, you know like develop developmental athletes. And I told him, I said I'm I don't think you call, I qualify as a developmental athlete because I've kind of done there and been on the scene a bit. But if you guys want to take a chance on me and believe in me, here's my story. And I was really candid with him about some things and I was just like I've just been going through it and I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm going to go and win UTMB or win a world championship, but I'll tell you that I'm going to be a really good team member and I can be a mentor because of what I've gone through. And he took that information and he um, you know, went back to the sports marketing team and they came back and I had another conversation with them and they were like we see you for who you are and we value you and we want you to be a part of this team. And I think that, similar to the other sponsorship ending, that was also a sign of like huh, maybe I'm not done yet and that's maybe okay. And so I took October, november, december basically off of running, didn't have a coach Hired a coach in January, matt Daniels in Boulder.
Speaker 2:I had been recommended him by several people and once again, it was like leaning into what the universe was telling me of like, okay, if you are going to do this, you're not going to do it alone, you're going to do it with the people that love you and support you and know you, and it's going to be, it's going to be right. It's not going to be out of specific pressures or um, tied up in an unhealthy relationship. It's going to be for you, um, and in a really healthy way. So I hired Matt and I told him. I said, hey, I, this is my story. And once again I was candid with him. I said I'm not the type of athlete that's going to go out and like run all the extra miles, like I'm going to need a little bit of help. Um, I know I'm capable, I know I have it in me, but I just I need someone that understands what I've been going through and what I've gone through, um, and can see my potential and work with me, because I'm a work in progress and I, yeah, with, I think, the help of um, matt, matt Brooks. And then also like meeting my new partner, who came alongside me too and was like, hey, like you don't have to be done with this, like this can be a new season for you if you want it, but don't force it, you know. And so I had three kind of like big support systems already built in that were like, yeah, we, we're here, whatever happens happens, but there's no pressure, there's no expectation. If you try it out, if you dip your toe in and you don't want to do it, it's okay, um.
Speaker 2:And so I think, coming back into 2025, like an entirely new self of like I had shed a lot um of the past and learned that I could seek joy in running. Before running, to go a little bit into it before running to me was like an escape from a place where I wasn't healthy and from a place specifically in a relationship that wasn't serving me, and running was the one place I could go to like, feel a little bit myself. And so now that I had done all this work this last year, I felt like whoa, I am myself Now. What can running be? Now, running is going to be somewhere that brings you joy and is a place where you can grow into and see again like you did in college and you did in high school and get back to that. And so I that was the mindset coming into this year and again, like I didn't sit down and say I'm going to, I wanted to qualify for worlds. It was never even on the radar.
Speaker 2:I stepped up at Sunapee and you can ask my Brooks teammates, you can ask all of the girls I raced. I was saying I don't care about worlds, I just want to race this race. I truly do not, and they knew it and, um, it's even funny Like I they were going back on the type B personality thing. They we had a Brooks house for Sunapee and, um, you know, everybody was up the race at nine. Everybody's up like five, five, 30, whatever I literally sleep into, like seven, 30, and roll out of bed. I'm like, oh, shoot, okay, we got to go To me. It's all about the experiences and the places and the people.
Speaker 2:And so at the beginning of the year, I put together a schedule of races that sounded really fun. That's why I went to Asia. I'd never been to Asia and I was like, if Brooks is going to help me, pay for this and send me here and Golden Trail is going to accept me with all these like crazy, random results in the past, like, yeah, I'll go do it, we'll go see a new part of the world. Um, I signed up for son and P because, you know, brooks was putting together a kind of a camp around that and I wanted to be part of that. And, um, you know, everything about my schedule this year was was about like refinding the joy and, um, I've written about it in my social media like the, the absolute boundary that I set for myself was if I'm going to re-enter into the sport and for 2025.
Speaker 2:I am not allowing myself to get nervous, and there's no pressure expectation for any race, and that was every day I wake up in it, I'm reminded of that. So you know, yesterday I did my first ever double workout of my whole life and I remind myself nope, you don't get to get nervous for this, this is just exciting and see what it does. You know, there's no expectations on paces. Throw them out the door, don't look at your watch, whatever it is, um, and that like set the foundation for the year. And so I've been really working hard to like tune that mindset of no pressure, no nervousness. You're running for you because you're happy now and this is the girl that you know you are and thought you could be 10 years ago. And so that is a long-winded story to tell you my approach to this year and where it came out of.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love it. That's a beautiful story. Thank you so much for being candid and being open to tell your story. I have to add to one thing it's been really interesting. I've gotten to meet and know quite well a lot of your Brooks teammates and so many people have sung your praises, like Sydney Peterson, anna Gibson, dan Kurtz. So many people have talked about you and brought you up and that's part of the reason why I was like I have to have a, a conversation with you, we have to get you on the pod, but just like from a leadership perspective and a mentorship perspective like that seems to be, that role that you have is very noticed.
Speaker 1:It seems like like they like, you're very admired in that team, which is very cool yeah, thanks, I appreciate that yeah, um, all right, let's talk about I can ask you the world's question now that that you're like you got fourth at Sunapee. You were right there, you made, you made. Now you made the team. We all kind of had an inkling and maybe you have more background information to this than I do Like I only know so much. But like we all kind of had a feeling that Grayson was going to go up and move to the marathon or to the short trail distance. How long did you know? Like did they approach you and talk to you about it, like long ago? Or like how long did you know before it was announced?
Speaker 2:Well, grayson is one of my best friends and my business partner. So the moment across the finish line at Sunapee, I mean I knew that she was going for that team, the other team, and so you know, I think I got a text from her and she was like there, the other team, and so you know, I think I got a text from her and she was like there's no one I'd rather have had in that fourth place position and I'm going to do everything I can to to let us both go to Spain. That's so sweet, yeah, and so Like I wasn't like putting my mindset in a place where like, oh, I'm going to go, because I had no idea, like she could also go and have raced the 50K and not liked it. And she did for you know 24 hours and then came back and was like actually, maybe I do like this, and so we have been in constant communication. I feel like we text several times a week and so I like kind of knew where everything was at and, you know, had heard a few things from other people of like well, you know, you're not the automatic person that gets in if she does decline her spot. I'm like, yeah, okay, so you know, once again, I'll let everything else decide and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 2:And so I didn't know until I think they announced it july 15th I think, like the july 5th or 6th or something, um, and so, yeah, I got a call from paul and he was like hey, you know, grayson gave up her spa. We picked her for the team and and, uh, I think everybody you know was really on board with you having a spot, and, um, they figured you'd say yes, but I just wanted to call and make sure. And so, yeah, yeah, it was kind of a crazy thing of like, okay, like I'm supporting Grayson as a friend, all, obviously, I want us both to go and I want her to do what she wants to do. Right, if she came off the 50 cane didn't like it, I, I wanted to be her biggest fan of like, then go to the classic because you could, you could still win a world title, you know, um, and not like putting pressure on anyone or anything, but yeah, so it was an easy yes for you.
Speaker 1:Then, like, did you or did you take time to think about it, or did you have? Oh, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 2:Yet it wasn't easy. Yes, I will say my mindset this year has been really dialed. I'd say my lowest point was Broken Arrow when I decided not to go and race the Ascent and the 23K and I had a little minty bee and had to go and camp in the mountains and be out of service for the weekend because it was ultimately what was best for me was to not go to that race. I had, you know, been racing early. My season started earlier than most and they'd done a lot. And you know, going back to the whole, like really goal of the year was to keep this mindset and like if I was going to go to broken arrow, it kind of threatened that mindset. I could get caught up and I could get nervous, and then I wouldn't want to come off that and be like, oh my gosh, like I've all the work I've done is gone, and so we made the decision to not go to broken arrow.
Speaker 2:Um, but then I watched the races before and then ended up having to leave and, um, I don't even know what question you asked here and why I'm rambling on about this, but um, yeah, basically, uh, oh, I saw them do that and I saw the ascent and I saw like three of my like best friends make the team, like Anna, sydney and Jess, and Hillary is a teammate too, so four really great people.
Speaker 2:But like Jess is one of my all-time best friends. Like Jess is a big reason why I'm into trail running and our stories go back for a while from flag stuff and um, we see each other often and and to see her make that team, it was almost like, oh my goodness, I want to be there with you guys. So it's like you know, more less of like a decision and more of just like, yeah, I want to go party with all you guys on the trails and and have fun in September. And it works great, so yeah. And then Grace and Megan to me I mean it works great, so yeah. And then Grayson making me I mean it was like, oh my gosh, all my friends, so why wouldn't I go if I have the spot?
Speaker 1:It's a giant party Like Ken Frank's going to be wild it's going to be it's going to be a good time, Are you like? Are you going to go out to Europe beforehand? Are you going to like what's the plan? Are you going to do any of the more golden trail series races Like, what are you going to do for the rest of the summer?
Speaker 2:So I ended up going to Mexico last minute after the broken arrow Minty B, I decided to go to Mexico to secure points for the golden trail final, in the case that if I had made the world team then I didn't need to go and get more points. And so thankfully it worked out in a way that I placed really high at Mexico and had a really great race there and then also made the world team. So came back and rearranged my schedule. I had um on the calendar uh, austria next weekend, or yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I was like yeah, I was like I don't need to go to that. I um also got asked to be a mentor on the trail team's trip to Slovenia and we're putting together like a little uh, developmental like us team there. And uh, when Andy texted me that I was like huh, one second, please hold. I like called Matt and like looked at the course and I was like I think this is actually better for my schedule. What do you think? And Matt was like a thousand percent, you need to go to Slovenia and do these races. So I'm going to go race the world cup finals, um, an uphill race on the 23rd and then like a classic style race on the 24th, which is just way more conducive to the world champ style racing, um, and then so I'll go to Slovenia for a week in the end of August, come back, train a little bit more here, and then we'll go to Europe for a month, um, because we'll do worlds and golden trail final. So stay over there for September, october.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a heck of a schedule. That's going to be a fun one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's got to be. I don't know. I just there's going to be a lot of hype and excitement around worlds and I know it's just pretty cool to have like I feel like we're in. Maybe I'll agree with this. We're sending a squad like especially the women's like mountain classic team, that obviously the the short trail as well Vertical team they're all amazing, but like I can't think of it. There's no like one week team Like everyone's really good saying that I have been raving about that all week.
Speaker 2:I was like when usatf came out with the full roster I was like, okay, this is the best team that they've ever sent for trail. I mean, it's just a testament to like the trail world is picking up and like these world champs stuff are, you know, becoming more legit. I think for a long time we just pieced together teams and send people over there and you know whatever. That was awesome. But I think now people are starting to like put more stock and value into that and brands, of course, and there's more eyes on it. And, you know, having people like katie scheid and jim walmsley, you know, be on the tentative roster, like that's lovely.
Speaker 2:And and yeah, I was looking at the women's side. I was like every single one of those women is a sponsored trail athlete, which is crazy. I don't think any other year they could say that. And the women are just I don't know. I think we have a really good shot to mix some things up. I mean, especially in the classic what's like three incredible athletes and me and I get to be a part of that.
Speaker 1:So it's a squad. Yeah, I, it was. Like I said it was not only an honor to call your guys's race at Sunapee, but like and I said this to Danny and MK like multiple times, like yo, like this is this is a team to beat. Good luck to the.
Speaker 2:Europeans Like have fun with that.
Speaker 1:Um, so one of the things that was cool you brought up like Jess Walmsley, I had no idea that like cause I know obviously Jess and Jim like live for the longest time like in you know and still kind of reside in Flagstaff. But it's neat how everybody kind of knows everybody in the trail space, like it's very interconnected yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean living in Flagstaff. I feel like you. Well, if you live in Flagstaff or Boulder, you just come real connected, real fast. And living in Flagstaff, for the three years that I lived there and then again last year for six months, I mean I just felt like I found family there and and yeah, jess and I go go back to the original time that I got into trail running and she was like a mentor of mine in a way of like she, she, she was so amazing because she was like, wow, you are such a talented track athlete, but let me show you like the way of the trail.
Speaker 2:And so Jess and I have shared so much in like just being able to like level each other of like we're both like have so much that we're bringing in to our relationship, of like I can bring the speed and track background and she can bring like the ultra expertise and stuff like that. And we have we have just absolutely hilarious stories from you know my first few times in the Grand Canyon running with them and and whatnot. And so it's been also really cool and like heartwarming to see her progression in the sport too, because back then she was just like yeah, I'm doing it for fun. It's great, and I work a job and support gym and doing this, and now she's making that her career too, and and so it's been really cool to see both of our paths and um yeah, so special relationship for sure.
Speaker 1:So cool and it was amazing to see her make the the uphill team, the share like, or the vertical team, like. I think, um, I think, like very how do I say this? Like she should be taken much more seriously, like in a lot of ways, which I think is really cool.
Speaker 2:She's one of the best climbers in the U S like so good, yeah, yeah. She doesn't know that or believe it, but she is big time, big time.
Speaker 1:Um, I want to talk to you a little bit about coaching like working, and you obviously work as a coach as well, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, grayson, rachel and I started the wilds rights coaching collective last November and so yeah, yeah, we have been running with that. It's been really fun what is it like?
Speaker 1:uh, like, how do you like working with athletes and just doing the whole coaching thing? Like is it?
Speaker 2:yeah, I really love it. I, um, rachel and I were part of another country coaching company that kind of. We started when it was in its infancy and flagstaff, and you know we rachel is one of my best friends and we have talked so many years on like dang, like it would be so fun to be our own bosses and like to just do it our way. And so when we decided to do it with Grayson last year, we were like, okay, how do we make this different? Because, like everyone, and their brother seems to be a running coach. And so I'm like dang now I'm just like part of the cliche and it's like no, like we serve a role and like don't do that, don't self-deprecate.
Speaker 2:But I, we were like how about, like we serve or like we try to aim at, like all train athletes, so somebody that all three of us have represented the US on the trail and track, which is so cool, like that there's I don't even know if you could find three other people or a other person that has done that like, especially a female. And so we all were like, dang, we have something here, so let's aim at the all train athletes, somebody that wants to crush a road marathon, but then come back in the spring and do an ultra or sub ultra racing, um, whatever it is, and so I think that's been really fruitful to see, like that's. That's been our story. And so now we get to use our story to help others in their story and make you know, make them believe that they can be that unicorn, um that we all three are too, so so cool.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's like. I mean, it's really special too, Like you said. To add to that, like you guys have some, of like the craziest resumes of like literally any people in the trail world. So not to not to plug it too hard, but I'll put it in the show notes. So if you're looking for more people to work with, I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll put it in.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about like your relationship as far as like Matt goes and like having him, because you know I've matt's been in sport a long time. I've always looked up to matt. Um, he and I used to live in the same town and, uh, he moved up to boulder, become one of the boulder boys, the boulder people, but, um, like I said, like I said, always looked up to him. What is it like working with him as a coach? Like from a coaching perspective? Like, do you do a lot of volume? Are you more volume runner or less volume?
Speaker 1:like what is what is that stylistically for you?
Speaker 2:Sure, well, matt like knows his stuff. Like Matt is like someone that from day one, I knew I was like, oh, you get in the weeds and you nerd out about this. This is great, I love that. Please do this with my training and tell me how to train. Um, and so he's been.
Speaker 2:I've had like a handful of coaches and I've I feel like I've also had a handful of those coaches just really hard, strained relationships of like lack of trust or lack of understanding of like who I am as an athlete, and ultimately that just like leads to like disappointment on both sides. And so it's been really so cool to see Matt come alongside and be like okay, let me learn about you, because you're different than you know, so-and-so and so-and-so, and so, you know, I ran with him this morning and he, you know, it's great to have somebody that's in person and that can see me and, you know, sometimes be out there on workouts or pace me or whatever. I think that's been really special too. But in terms of like how I train and volume, I'd say like a pretty classic sub-ultra type trainer where I'm like doing you know, 50 to 60-ish miles a week, high vert, so high number of hours, but by no means I'm a big volume person, um, coming from the track world, I just never was.
Speaker 2:I thrived at 55 to 65. And so I'm going to stay there. Because if I'm doing 65 on the trails here, that's, like you know, 12, 13, 14 hours of running a week with 15,000 feet of climbing, whatever it is, um. And so it's been cool to like climbing whatever it is um. And so it's been cool to like see the body kind of come back to a place of fitness where I'm like, oh, I'm really strong now and it's like a total different type of strength. Um, I do a lot of like steep stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, oh, funny, because that's podcast um, and that usually just like, makes me feel really good. I think I'm like a pretty average climber and pretty average descender on like, and so that makes me pretty well rounded and so I like getting that into my training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you still do any stuff on the track at all? Like I said, like I know, Grayson every now and then gets like so a lot of people do get out on the track like a decent junk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't, because last year, when I went through all of the stuff that I went through, I was training for the Olympic trials and steeplechase. Actually, it's crazy to say that now, um and I, as I was kind of in the process of uh, redoing my life and moving, I um got two stress fractures in my pelvis from training on the track and so I'd never had a running related injury in my whole life and so that, like really scared me. I think I just overdid it a little bit, but mostly from life stress, and so I've been a little bit timid to go back into the track. But I have found that, like, the types of training that Matt writes me for the mountains makes me really fit and I'm really responding well to it.
Speaker 2:Um, like, for instance, I haven't done a flat workout for probably three, three to four months and he wrote me a double workout yesterday, my first one ever, like I said, and I did a hill work on the morning and I had a flat like tempo in the afternoon and the afternoon one. I was shocked by what I was running, because I don't run flat, and it was really cool to see the aerobic fitness translate. It's like oh, legs are strong and lungs are strong, so that means you're going to run fast, even on a flat surface. Um, and so I think I don't need all that flat surface stimulus all the time. It's nice to have every now and then, but um, yeah, I just think that the mountain legs make me really strong.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so interesting. I training theory is so cool too, cause, like different people, just respond differently to different things Like no two people are the same, which was kind of neat.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, I I've been working, I I've worked with coaches a long time and then I just started coaching myself and like I use chat GPT and this stuff that I've like figured out was chat GPT up like damn. Um yeah, I don't, I don't recommend that to people. Um so you mentioned you were going for your PhD. Like what did you? What did you study? Or what like? What do you do, like professionally, with the PhD, or did you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started my phd I did not finish um, started in like ecology. I had done a lot of research um with like restoration ecology specifically. Yeah, like big plant soil girl um, and thought I wanted to pursue that for research and ultimately become a professor. And so I did that for a year and realized I didn't want to be bound by grant writing for the rest of my life and I ended up switching into a master's. And I got a master's in science, education and learning because I was like I love being in the classroom, I love teaching the plants and the soils and all of that, but I don't love like being the one that's like writing the grants. And so I got a degree that ultimately, could you know, end up I could teach at a college or community college or high school or whatever I wanted to teach um, and ultimately actually went into education research and so I worked in like developing stem curriculum for minorities, working like specifically with like boys and Girls Club and NASA grants that had already been written and funded but were basically like working in a way to create curriculum that engaged several different types of communities and individuals to make them believe that they could also be scientists one day, and so I worked in that field for a little bit. And then I always say I moved to California and had to sell my soul to the tech world because bills went up and the rent went up and that measly little education salary is only going to get you so far.
Speaker 2:Earlier this year, um, I worked for slack actually, which I feel like is a product a lot of people use, yeah, and then took a step away earlier this year, um, with some layoffs classic, everyone's going through them and it was like a really good.
Speaker 2:It was the best timing for a layoff it was february and I was like okay, I think once again the universe is telling me here that I need to just like buy in to this running thing and this coaching thing and there's a lot that's going really well and I can take the rest of the year to to think about what I want to do with my next steps.
Speaker 2:And as soon as I kind of made the decision to not go back into the industry and to give myself a year off of work, doors like flew open. It was like, oh my gosh, I am working with a small brand and working for this nonprofit and being able to put my time in here and be creative and all the other things that I knew I had and could do started to come out. And so now I'm like full-time, you know, athlete coach and investing in just like community building and the running world, which has been very cool and not something I ever wanted to do. I always said I wanted to build out my career and be a runner and life changes, so I'm leaning into this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now I was going to say soul enriching and it's like what a?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I've lived and worked the corporate life for a very long time now and I love asking folks that are like kind of full-time, pursuing their own stuff, like you just get more time to enjoy life, I feel like that's kind of like a big thing. And you, you probably agree. I mean, we're going to intact. Like you work stupid hours, like it's it's, it's. You know and this is nothing against people that do it, because a lot of people do it, if not most people but to be able to be free and do things like that and pursue athletics and to have more time to do the things you want to do, I think just leads to such a happier, healthier life it's really nice and cushy and amazing and but like you are a slave to that and like everything else has to fall in the in the right place and pieces to that, and so it's.
Speaker 2:It's scary to say like, yes, I'm going to make a lot less doing the things that I love, but it's not scary to know that, like I'm much more myself and much more happier and much more able to show up as a friend or like coworker or, you know, business partner now than I was in the past. And so I don't know what the future holds in the corporate world for me, if it does hold anything. But I do know that like I'm done being a careerist and climbing that career ladder because it just isn't like, the more you climb it, the more you like pigeonhole yourself into a spot that is harder to get out of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I could say I could literally do a whole nother podcast on that topic. I talk about it all the time. That's funny. All right, we're at about an hour. Um, I do want to get some ending questions, just cause, just out of pure curiosity, I'm curious who inspires you?
Speaker 2:Hmm, wow, that's a really crazy question to just ask somebody right off, sorry, I think like I wouldn't say there's like one person that inspires me, but I think it's a group of like people that are pursuing life in a way that is well-rounded and integrated into community. So there are people in my life that are really strong community builders and connectors, that are go-getters, but can also be really present with you and sit with you, and those are the type of people that inspire me because I can see them go out and do incredible things in the world, but they also come back to their home or to their family or to their place or their people and are there for them, and so I think that's the type of person I want to be, somebody that is building community and going after big goals but also can be at peace and myself and at home and my family or whatever that looks like. So, yeah, kind of like a not necessarily cop-out answer, but but kind of a different answer.
Speaker 1:No, I really appreciate it. Actually, it's actually been a topic I've been talking about a lot on the podcast and just working talking with other athletes and individuals about it. It's like you know, you meet a lot of people in everyday life that like it's more, uh, insular, it's more they're very about themselves, right, they're trying to protect me first and it's, I feel, like, in society now it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It doesn't like make me upset, but I see more of it where like folks just the idea and concept of community and building community and creating community or giving, even just giving back, whether that's in a mentorship way or in whichever way you can it's just like not a talked about thing and it's just not as prevalent as I feel like it used to be, and I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And especially like as you get into the world of athletics, like you know not to knock anyone particularly, but like there are people that it's like their whole world becomes them and it's all about them. I think, in my pursuit of this, this life in general, it's like I realized that in order to be the best person myself, like I do have to be other-minded and build that up support, support system up around me and like, yes, do things that feel in line with me and that I, I love, but like part of that is like pouring out and giving back and in a way that, yeah, feels really fulfilling, and like I can lay my head down at night and not have to worry about all the little things in my life, because I know that my support system is there and my community is there and I'm working each day to build that and into something that is is wonderful and beautiful.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good place to end it. Courtney, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I'm such a fan Like I really appreciate it. I'm such a fan, like thank you for coming on the pod and hopefully this is not our last convo. Hope to either see you on the trails or interview. I'll probably interview. I think I'm going to do something for world to try to get like some of the teams together. Yeah, team round table chats or something like that would be kind of fun.
Speaker 2:Where are you located?
Speaker 1:I'm in the Springs.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, Nice together a little mountain champs training camp um, in buna vista. Oh wow, that's to you, let me know I'll definitely dude.
Speaker 1:It'd be cool. I'd love to come interview you guys. Like talk?
Speaker 2:yeah, that'd be cool, I'll throw it out there to them. I think they're just putting together it's like august 15th to 17th of your round yeah, yeah, that'd be sweet.
Speaker 1:Keep me posted, let me know. Like I said, I uh, I think that's kind of one of the things I really want to get into next, especially with this. I feel like this is going to be such a special year. Going into worlds, like you know, we've talked about, like how stacked the teams are, but not just even that, it's just the folks that are on the team. Like, who knows, this might be Joe's last, you know last worlds, or maybe not, I don't know. But like just having all of these really special people on the team, like I feel like there's a lot of good storytelling there to help share these stories and have conversations, so, and even things that, like you guys can look back on in the future to be able to be like, oh yeah, like, yeah, it was special. So, yeah, yeah, let's keep me posted, let me know. And, uh, this will come out in the next, probably next week. Um, thank you so much for your time and uh.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much. This was great and fun way to reflect on my own journey. It's like just as useful for me as it is for you. Yeah, I'm going to pause it.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode. I want to thank Courtney personally so much for coming on the podcast. I hope this is the first of many conversations as she continues to develop in her career and just continues to crush it on the the trail running scene.
Speaker 1:So, uh, guys, before you get going, if you wouldn't mind, you could find uh courtney on instagram, you know. Find her, give her a follow and send her some words of encouragement as she takes on, uh, just a gigantic season of uh really intensive racing, um, especially going to worlds and just going to be part of, like what I think is just going to be such an unbeatable um mountain classic team, like so loaded. Um, yeah, we're sending, we're sending some squads for uh for worlds this year. It's going to be crazy. Anyway, you can find her on instagram. That's going to be at cp cop underscore. That's courtney coppinger. Uh, give her a follow and uh, send her some kind words.
Speaker 1:Um, guys, before you go, and if you did enjoy this episode or any previous episodes, um, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would mean the world to me so we can continue covering this great sport of short trail, um, or sub ultra, however you want to call it. I kind of like short trail better, now I don't know, um, but yeah, give us a five-star rating and review if you wouldn't mind. And uh, you know, let me know in the show notes of the comments why you like this. Uh, or what, or what, or what we need to work on here.
Speaker 1:Um, and yeah, we've got some cool stuff coming around the corner. Um, like I said earlier, there was a. There's a cool um, uh, cool uh collaboration with sub hub that we're going to be dropping pretty soon, and we've got some good stuff coming out for series and all. I've got a great preview episode for series and all coming out next week, um, with a cool co-host. You guys are a new co-host Um, so some good stuff out there. Um, it's going to be a lot of fun. So let's look forward to on the horizon lots of good episodes. Um, hope you guys enjoyed all this and I really appreciate you uh listening along and following along. Have a great rest of your day, thank you, I'm out.
