The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Sierre Zinal Race Preview with Bailey Kowalczyk
Nestled in the Swiss Alps, Sierre-Zinal stands as perhaps the most competitive short trail race on the planet. It's the place where mountain running meets marathon speed in a showcase of pure athletic brilliance. To help break down this iconic event, host James Lauriello welcomes the perfect co-host – Bailey Kowalczyk, who scored a remarkable 5th place finish at the race in 2022.
Bailey paints a vivid picture of what makes Sierre-Zinal so special: "It has that European energy – people with enormous Swiss cowbells and even chainsaws at the summit creating this electric atmosphere." The course itself demands a unique combination of skills that few races require – starting with a punishing double vertical kilometer climb before traversing high alpine terrain and finishing with a quad-crushing descent. As Bailey explains, "You have to be a Jack of all trades to succeed here. It's fast, it's technical in sections, and the competition is relentless."
What truly separates Sierre-Zinal from other prestigious trail races is the depth of competition. The gap between first and tenth place is often remarkably tight, with mere minutes separating the top finishers in a race that takes elite men just over two hours and women around three hours to complete. The 2024 edition promises another spectacular battle with defending women's champion Jolene Chepchumba returning alongside a deep Kenyan contingent and a historically strong American field that could see multiple athletes crack the top 10.
James and Bailey offer detailed analysis of both the men's and women's fields, complete with their top-five predictions. With defending champion Kilian Jornet absent, the men's race appears wide open with Philemon Kirwa as the betting favorite after his second-place finish last year. For anyone passionate about elite trail running or looking for insight into one of the sport's most hallowed events, this comprehensive preview delivers expert commentary from someone who's stood on Sierre-Zinal's prestigious podium.
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What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I'm joined by co-host Bailey Kowalczyk. Couldn't think of anyone better to help me race preview Series and All Series and All arguably the granddaddy of them all, probably the most competitive short trail race on the planet, the beautiful intersection of the trail and marathon slash road world in a place called Siri and they run to a place called Zinal, one of the most iconic courses probably on the planet.
Speaker 1:It was really exciting to be able to preview this race, talk about the elite field, both on the men's and women's side, and I couldn't think of a better co-host than Bailey. Bailey talked about her own experiences at this race. She gave a beautiful breakdown and commentation on the race, why it's so important to the sport. We talked a lot about the course. We talked about course records, kind of her beliefs and what she thinks might happen on the day, and then really dissected the elite fields on both the men's and women's side, and she gave her expert picks on what she thought was going to go down on the day.
Speaker 1:And I did the same One of my favorite race previews. I think there's a lot of value here, especially for those of you that are really into the free trial fantasy, I think you're going to get a ton of value for your fantasy picks. That's why we're getting this out on a Wednesday, so you guys can kind of lock in those picks before they, before the poll closes. So hope you guys get a lot of enjoyment out of this one. I think this is something I'm going to start doing a little bit more, moving forward, where we have, you know, alumni of the races, do more of these race previews so they can give you know better commentary and just kind of paint a better picture on some of these races and give you guys just a firsthand, some more firsthand knowledge of what it's like to line up at these races. So, without further ado, I hope you enjoy this one Without, I already said, without further ado, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one Series and all race preview episode with co-host Bailey Kowalczyk.
Speaker 1:It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Bailey Kowalczyk, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 2:I am so happy to be here. This is going to be an exciting conversation. Yeah, yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I couldn't think honestly of anyone better to be a co-host for the series and all preview episode. You have so much experience with that race. I feel like you could just paint such a beautiful picture for the audience and I didn't even realize this. But like you, just it seems like you really love this race, which is awesome.
Speaker 2:So well, I'm honored. Thank you for. Thank you for thinking of me. Um, dears and all is so special to me. It is, I'd say, where I had probably my career breakout race, but then I've also had a really terrible day there. So it's it's a. It's a race that I've kind of seen both sides of and I still want to come back. I still have huge goals for that race and and it's just such a special place to be. So, yeah, I'm stoked to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it. I love it. All right, let's get. Let's get right into it. I got to ask the question. This is the one I had highlighted what, what does this race mean to you? Like, what, what about it makes it so special? Is it just the audience and and how many eyes it gets on it? Is it the challenge of the course? Like, what about it about this race? It just makes it so, so, like and special and so amazing yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think I think one of the big things is that the European culture is so special. European racing is, um, you know, it has history behind it, has meaning people show up whether it's nice outside or raining. It kind of has that Zygoma vibe. Almost. It's not the exact same, I don't want to compare it too much, but it's a similar people put a similar weight on it. So I think there's there's the initiative to go there to race the best of the best of the best. It's always going to be competitive, no matter what. Like I don't think I've ever seen a year there where it's not competitive. Um, the times are always quite similar for top 10. Um, so I think there's that appeal.
Speaker 2:But then also the community, the people that come out there. There's, you know, there's people all the way at the top of the mountain all day long, like swinging, these huge um, I don't are they. They're cowbells, but they're ginormous. These things are huge, like next level Swiss cowbells. Um, there's people with this. This kind of freaks me out. But there's people with chainsaws up at the top, like literally like just starting the chainsaw over and over again. So I think I think there's the piece of like really feeding off of the crowd and the energy.
Speaker 2:They call it the Boston marathon of the trails and I've never run Boston marathon, but I think I would compare it to what I would expect like a world major marathon to feel like. Like the energy, everybody, it's fast, it's electric, there's constantly new variables. Like you, really, you have to be a Jack of all trades to to do well there and I think there's the appeal there. Um plus, it is probably one of the more inviting races for um, like road runners coming to the trail as well, I I always hesitate to say that because you start with a double VK. So to the road runners out there, it is not a road. However, if you come from a road background, it can really play to your favor. So, um, I think just all of those pieces combined to make this really magical special event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I love it, such a good way to put it. And you painted, you touched on so many important things there. Well, let's talk about the competitiveness. I think that this what I mean I've never been there, I've never raced this race as an outside viewer, as an athlete in the sport. I've always kind of viewed this as my crown jewel of, like a race that I would love to go do someday. Would you agree that it's the most, probably the most competitive short trail race in the world, one of, if not, because I know Zagama gets a ton as well and I know it's hard to compare and contrast, but I feel like this one, just because there's such that intersection of bringing especially the Kenyan contingent, just gets so deep here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would say Zygama also has a ton of depth, but it has a lot more technicality and a lot more variables that are not. They're a little bit more finessed than Sears and all, if that makes sense. I do think Searserson Hall holds more depth and the reason being, if you look at the spread between first and tenth in Sierson Hall, it is always so small. If you misstep, if you have one bad mile, you're losing five to ten places Versus. I feel like there's a little bit more margin for error at Zagama, maybe because it's a longer race. You know, for women it runs two hours longer almost. So I think there's that piece. But, um, the competition is insane there's there's 30 athletes every year that could be in the top 10 and have a place in the top 10 and are really high level professional athletes, and I think, um, that's not all that common with that many um, sub ultra races in the world. Yeah, that's a. That's a very bold statement, but I'm going to say it with purpose because I think it's true.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it. Can we get into a little bit of like your experience there on 2022,? You landed on the podium, you got a fifth place finish, which was yo, like, what, like on the world's biggest stage in short trail to be able to go do that. I can't imagine what that must've felt like. Can you? Can you maybe paint the picture to the audience of like what that was like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it honestly, was one of the best days of my life. Honestly, I and I do think I have more days like that to come, I'm confident about that but that day, I mean, it was what everyone dreams of. I think having a day that went so smoothly, it just lit the fire big time for me. It's a race that I really respect and I think it does take a lot to succeed there and I, you know, there was a lot of time after the race that I was like oh, I got lucky. Maybe my time wasn't that fast, but my time holds up. It would have been between third and fifth place the last three years, and of course, I'm checking you know, we all do.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm really, I'm really really proud of that result and I'm not done. I think there's the. The fun thing about Sears and all is that time actually means something. So there's, there's time you get. You know, there's like podiums based on time, and for women I think it starts around 3.20 or 3.15. And then every five minute increment there's a bigger kind of bonus, and so I know what I'm chasing next. But it's really that was just such a special day for me and I still dream of that day.
Speaker 2:Amazing 2026, that's it. That's 2026 is the year yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's. Let's talk about the course a little bit. I know this is a. I feel like this is a really tricky one to get right. I've talked to quite a few athletes that are prepared for this race. Some have had success in the past and some have not. Like it's that double VK in the beginning is a hard thing to nail, and then especially being able to like, once you get over that, to be able to have legs and turnover for what's after that, maybe. Maybe talk a little bit about both preparation for a race like this and just how to nail it correctly without destroying yourself on that ascent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is interesting because so many people tackle it so differently as well. I think it is interesting because Americans historically haven't done like. I can count on one hand the amount of Americans that have really nailed it. I think this year will be a cool, exciting year because I think there's two Americans that could land themselves in the top 10.
Speaker 2:But it's from the start it feels like a road race. You start so hot and you're packed in like sardines, so it's intimidating and I think a lot of people burn their matches too quickly. You know you're jumping straight into a almost double VK and then you have to expect to have the legs to run for another 12 to 15 K on a ridge and then shoot downhill, like you know, to 2,500 feet, so it is hard to master your soul too early. Um, and then not be able to have the legs to run that like fast portion in the middle. That is very much douche grade. I don't know if you're familiar with that term, but it's not flat. Running up top like you're still getting a good bit of climbing, you're still. You know you're still working uphill. It's not just pure road running once you get to the top. So not only do you run this double VK but then you have to survive through the douche grade and somehow have the legs to go downhill.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think there's two types of athletes that thrive here. I think there's there's um, the people that are really really good climbers and runners, and that's kind of that Ken Kenyan contingency, and in in that group of people I would consider, like the I think it's Milamani um runners and then, like, run together, those, those two teams do really well because they're great at uphill, they're great. They usually come from a road background, um. But then the other type of person that I've seen thrive here are the people that have the engine. They don't necessarily start super fast, but then they turn on once they get to the top.
Speaker 2:And you've seen I cannot remember which man it was, but one year this guy ran through eight people to get second place in the last like 10K of the race, and so you don't necessarily have to run that first part like a crazy person, but it does require some specificity. And I think so you want speed, but you don't just want speed, you want that engine too, to be able to to climb and descend like a good mountain runner as well. So it's kind of I like to think that that's that my background suits me well in that way. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Is there a fair amount of technicality on the course or is it pretty like? Is it likea freeway?
Speaker 2:That's. That's a question. I feel like I have this debate with a lot of people. I would consider it not very technical at all. However, the downhill is not to be taken lightly. Like it's not a fire road. It's very steep, very eroded, almost like really loose powdery dirt is the best way I would say it. There are roots like that. It's not a completely seamless trail, um the, but it's really really fast. So the grades are really steep, but I would not consider it technical. Um, and then the entire Ridge up top is like almost double track vibes. So it really you don't have to be the most technically savvy runner to do well at Sears and all, but I do think it still works in your favor, especially on the downhill.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. It was cool last year watching Um, I mean not just cool, it was astounding last year to watch Killian and Philemon battle it out for the on that last descent. One of the questions I have is that, like I noticed like I might've been KJ had cut switchbacks going down. You can do that in this race, right.
Speaker 2:There aren't even really switchbacks. You basically just straight line the downhill. So this is a race where you know they're they're usually very clear, like world championships. You have to take every switchback. That's how it works. That's how they um do it. But this downhill, if switchbacks exist, I was not aware of them. It's basically just this dirt like straight shot. There's maybe a few switchbacks towards the end, but you can cut um and and I think that's why Killian has really perfected that downhill because he probably at this point knows the straightest, most direct route down the hill.
Speaker 1:So crazy. I mean some battles over the years. It's going to be cool. I mean, I think there's a lot of history to this race. A lot of talking points, just a lot of news with who's going to be cool. I mean, I think there's a lot of like history to this race a lot of talking points, a lot of um, just a lot of like news with who's going to be here this year, like mods back. There's quite a few athletes that are going to be participating in that. Uh, it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:Just for the audience, I just want to run through some statistics before we get um into some storylines and stuff like that. First thing, because I know I get a lot of questions around this with course records. Killian Jornet has the course record from last year 225.34. He has the most wins out of any male 10 wins. And then Maude Mathies will be racing this year Course record 249.20, set back in 2019. Maude has four wins and she's tied with Anna Pichova, who also has four wins. On the women's question. Do you think we'll get a course record this year?
Speaker 2:It who also has four wins. On the women's question, do you think we'll get a course record this year? It's interesting Is her course record 49 or 46?
Speaker 1:49. 49-20.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's a great question. I, I do not think so. Okay, so that's just like a really hard, hard.
Speaker 1:That's like a stout, stout.
Speaker 2:I think mods time she has not even touched it. I think I don't think the women's will get a course record and I hope I'm proven wrong because I love to see that but I think the men's could go down honestly, like if I was to put money on which course record could go down. I think it would be men over women. I think Philemon is someone who's run this race enough and has the competition this year to really take off those last few. I'm not entirely sure what his PR is, but I don't think it's too far behind Killian's time it's like 20,.
Speaker 1:it might be even less than 20 seconds behind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really. I think he's only gotten better and only leveled up in the last few years.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sorry, it's too. It's literally a second and a half.
Speaker 2:So I think that the men's course record will go down. I mean, I've been checking and Maude's time has held up over the years. Nobody has been that close to her time, and so I think if one course record is going to go down, it's going to be the men's.
Speaker 1:I could see that. So my big question mark is always Phil Amon, because I always have Phil Amon and Patrick together, because they like to work together in races interesting tandem and there's going to be a lot of their teammates at this race as well. For some reason, Phil Oman just has this course figured out. I don't know what it is, but he's won this race in 2023. He got second place last year, right there with Killian, like an Epic battle. Yeah, I feel like he's gotta be the favorite going into this race, especially Remy, not in. El Huzin has struggled in this race before. Like it's uh, yeah, I. I would put him as the betting favorite easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I think typically I would put Patrick as a favorite for any other course, but this course in particular.
Speaker 1:Philemon, yeah, he really has it dialed no-transcript, 1974, which for short trail races, we can't. There's not too many you can name that have gone that that far back, um, especially, you know, just around the world. And then the other thing, to bring up to your point, only three American women have won this race Megan Lund, stevie Kramer and then Sophia Lockley back in 2023. And she ran 253, 17. So that's crazy, I think. I do think, and I will agree with you, there's probably two women I could definitely name off the top of my head in this, in this contingent, that could definitely get on the podium 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think I don't think there's that many years where there's more than one and you'd have to correct me, but that where there's more than one woman in the top 10, the year that I more than one American woman in the top 10 and the year that I did it, there were two of us and, uh, my hope is that there's two and hopefully more this year. There's a lot of American women out there, as there always are, but I I think that there's a lot of really, really strong names going this year.
Speaker 1:So crazy. I think we have a significantly better chance on the women's side than we do the men. The men's contingent is much smaller and it's so crazy how terrible history the men have at this race. We haven't won this since 1982.
Speaker 2:And even top 10, it's been really challenging for US men in particular, and I have my theories on that.
Speaker 2:But I think, um, I mean, I've seen one of the best. Eli Hemming is one of the best sub ultra, slash ultra now, um, pro runners and and he's been kind of obliterated by by this race and and I don't mean that in a mean way, but it's just it it chews up and spits a lot of really talented athletes out. Matt daniels is another name who, on paper, should be doing really, really well at this race and has just had a lot of trouble and I think, um, I mean, I I hope that these men keep coming back and and trying to nail it, but it has been tough. I think part of that is how fast it goes out and how impatient a lot of the field is with that initial climb. Like, instead of being patient and and holding off a little bit before the full send, it feels like everybody takes off like a rocket ship and a lot of people aren't necessarily prepared to cash that check yeah, no, I agree, I, I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean you're talking, I think, for that altitude, probably mid four to high four, great adjusted pace like for the men going off. And that's from a sustainability perspective for a 19 mile race, it's really hard to hold for two VK.
Speaker 2:And it's also, I mean, what a lot of spectators don't necessarily realize are spectators from their computer, people that are just following. It's hot, it is really really hot, it's really humid, and they start the race at 11 am. So it's not a race where you're, you know, working with the world, the environment's variables very well. Like it last year was probably one of the hottest races I've ever experienced, and I think part of that is because you start the race in the middle of the day. Um, so I think that that poses its own set of challenges and, you know, it's not your classic sub ultra race where you can get away with not fueling, not hydrating, not cooling. You almost need to treat it more like an ultra than you do a sub ultra, I think, just with cooling and being proactive and staying hydrated. Like you know, three hours ish give or take is enough time for things to really go South If you're not doing the small things, especially these days.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine the light like the quad cramps. Like if you don't take care of yourself, the quad cramps. You gotta be excruciating, like that's gotta be horrible, especially with the humidity. What is like your nutrition strategy for a race like this? Like when you ran it last year? Like what were you? Were you like how many gels in the race? Like what were you doing?
Speaker 2:I created like. So I think the fun part about Sears and all is that you can get crew anywhere on the course. So if you have people that are able to be at different spots, you really don't have to carry much. I think the weight that you're carrying on you like fueling wise, it doesn't matter it adds up, especially over the double VK. You don't want to be carrying two liters of water with you.
Speaker 2:So for me, um, I was carrying I want to say I was carrying 500 milliliters of fluid on me at any one time and then just doing really quick handoffs in places that made sense. Um, the gels, I think. So last year I was aiming for 90 grams of carbs an hour, like it looks very similar to what you would see in an ultra. I think you can go a little bit lighter on the fluids if you want, but for me, I wanted the security of making sure that I was going to be functional on the downhill, and I think this goes for both of the years that I did it. I can't remember exactly what I did in 2022, but I remember taking two to three gels an hour and maybe 500 milliliters an hour, whereas in a five hour race I'd probably shoot for 750 milliliters of water, but, um, it's still like you still want that hydration and you're you still want to be fueling, because it'll really save you for the back hour to hour and a half.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this. I always get this question a lot Like during a race or after a race. Someone will ask me, like did you, did you like look up? Did you see this? Did you like pay attention to the like, the beautiful background? I'm like no, I had my head. I was looking down, killing myself Like I don't look around. Do you ever like stop to like look at like hotel Weisshorn and like look at that gorgeous area with this beautiful backdrop of the Alps? Like did you actually like take it in at all?
Speaker 2:That's such an interesting question because I think I blacked out in 2022 and it was just full on like steamroller mode, like I felt so good and was like I need to just keep this ball rolling. Like it was like tunnel vision, so no, um. But last year when I was, I had some sort of like heat. I don't want to say heat stroke, cause I didn't land in the hospital, but it was like some sort of heat injury and just not doing well. It wasn't a good day and that happens. But that's when I was like, wait a minute, I ran this in 2022.
Speaker 2:I don't remember any of this and and I had to find those like really, in those really dark moments, I had to find something to be grateful for. So I was like holy crap, this place is amazing, this is awesome. Like there's a guy with a chainsaw. None of that. None of that I noticed in 2022. So I think it depends on the race, but I can probably speak for most of the competitive field that they're appreciating that before and after the race, and not necessarily during during it's kind of like survival mode and tunnel vision mode.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, just killing yourself. Yep, yep, fun stuff. Um, let's talk. Let's talk. Some of the women's storylines I want to get into. Like, there's, five of the six women from the podium on last year are going to be returning, which is crazy. Um, including the champion, uh, from 2024, jolene Chepenego I think I got her last name right. Naomi Lang, who just won Pitts-Alpin Glacier Trail this past weekend, is going to be coming to this race as well. I'm going to ask you this it's hard now with the back-to-back Golden Trail Series races, weekend after weekend. Do you think that's going to play a role in fatigue? I have to think it will.
Speaker 2:The year I ran it, it was back to back weekend with golden trail, yeah. So there was the Norway race, which was heinous. It was so technical. It honestly looked very similar to what they got in Austria and I honestly thought that it would play a bigger role. But it seemed like most people from Norway were pretty. I actually don't know the exact names that raised Norway. I'm not sure anyone in front of me also raised Norway, so that could have been just a me thing. But I do think it's all about recovery, right, I think it will play a role if somebody is not recovering to a T? Um, I'm trying to think of the names. Naomi Lang, she, she's a great athlete and she's kind of popping off this year and I, and last year too she's, she's really crushed it. But I do think I do think it'll play a fatigue role with some athletes. Just by nature Everyone has a different recovery rate, Everyone fuels differently and travel hits everybody differently too. So I think it'll play a role, but not necessarily for everybody Interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I mean, it's not necessarily. It's not that far away from Siri, right, it starts in? Yeah, it starts in. Siri ends in Zanal. So yeah, I can't imagine it's that far away. So you got to think like maybe travel is not too much of a factor, it's all kind of in the vicinity or general area.
Speaker 1:Um, so that probably you know I feel like it's gotta be way. Had to have been way more stressful getting on a plane from Norway and then flying South, like that's it was awful, awful.
Speaker 2:They lost my bags. It was a whole, it was a whole thing. But I think, going kind of going back to this double in particular, like I think for someone like naomi lang, it's gonna work in her favor because she felt what it felt like to win last weekend and that is a huge game changer. So I think for her it I don't think she'll have an issue personally, because she's probably still on a high. If I were to guess, I think the people that it might hit are the people that didn't have the best day in Austria and kind of let that fatigue sit and they're not necessarily coming in with the best headspace, and that's like no names in particular. I think that's just the situation that I would think would would impact it Um, a double race.
Speaker 1:Um, let's talk on a Gibson. So she was the first American last year in 2024. Um, I think it was. She was in sixth place. Comes back this year. Um, I'm just have been having a great season. I think that there's a lot to look forward to when it comes to her racing this year. I must have been having a great season. I think that there's a lot to look forward to when it comes to her racing this year. Uh, at this race and it's cool we've got like almost had three quarters of the mountain classic team for worlds there. Uh, ali mac's not going to be racing, but we will have anna and lauren gregory um racing. And then another american popped up I saw you comment, I think I saw you comment on her uh photo. I think it's Katie Scheid is going to be racing this race for the first time since 2021, which is awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm so. So Anna Gibson, I think her debut was 306, if I'm correct, and she has only leveled up since then. I think she has the ability to go close to three hours, if not under. I'm sure that's a goal. She has Um and I think she could do really really well at this race. It really speaks to her skillset. She is one of the best if not she is the best uphill runner in uphill sub ultra athlete in in the us, um, in my opinion, and so I think she'd be. She's gonna be really, really strong.
Speaker 2:Katie is awesome to see her name there. I think I have people to note. I have a note in my in my document that says people to note and it's katie scheid, with explanation points. I mean, if you remember, courtney de walter went to zigama a few years ago and got 10th. It's not the place that you would expect Courtney to be at and she hung with the big dogs and I think this is pretty similar. But Katie lives and trains in Europe. She knows this terrain, she's objectively fast and I'm really excited to see her out there, especially since 2021 was really, I think, before the Katie we currently know. So that'll be really fun to see her come back to a really competitive sub-ultra and hopefully get a top 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I could definitely see it. I would not be surprised at all. I mean, especially like, what did she get? She was 19th in 2021. She ran 317 dude.
Speaker 2:she's gonna I think she'll be under 310 for sure, easily. Yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, let's talk about the american contingent in general. Um, just off of the names that I've seen I haven't reached out to everybody to make sure everybody's racing, but I've got a good idea. Like we've got al. Alicia Varga, uh, or Alicia Vargo, I'm sorry. Uh, rachel, to my check. Katie Shide, sydney Peterson from Brooks, uh, lauren Gregory on a Gibson. I'm not sure if Andy Cornish is racing. I know she was sticking to just uphill stuff for this year, um, although she is on the roster. Uh, kyla Christopher Moody, then sarah carter, who, sarah carter, had a great race last week. Uh, yeah, at uh pitts alpine glacier as well. Um, a lot of like really strong women.
Speaker 2:I I'm very excited to see, like, what this american contingent could possibly do, like maybe, maybe more than two I could see in the top 10 possibly yeah, I think, um, I I have my guesses, but I would say three in the top 10 could be a very realistic outcome for this group of US women. I mean, lauren and Anna are obviously very, very talented and this course is great for both of them. With the road speed, they have the endurance, they have the engines, they have the success they've had on the Golden Trail Circuit. Katie Scheid we've already mentioned Sarah Carter had a great race last weekend and her specialty is more uphill, I would say, than downhill. So that's exciting because there was a lot of downhill last weekend. So for her to to hang in the top 10 comfortably in that race with a lot of technical downhill, that that gives me hope that she's really fit and ready for Sears. And also, I'm I'm really excited to see, um, her as well. And, yeah, very, very strong group of us women. It's always fun to see the representation out there.
Speaker 1:Strong group of us women. It's always fun to see the representation out there. Yeah, it's, it's so crazy. I'm excited, really excited for it. I got to ask you, all right. So I had mod here with, uh, just with a question mark, like where do you see mod kind of fitting into this field after taking some years off from the or, yeah, a few years off from this race? Obviously, the course record holder, four time champion, do you think, like is it possible to take time off from this race and then come back and go, like nail it? Or do you think like maybe, like is she still in her prime? Like is it possible? Like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:I don't feel comfortable ever counting mod out. I think, um, it is interesting, she's had it. She's had a unique few years. She has not hit the nail on the head too much in the last few years, like, she's raced minimally. She has raced and she showed up to the races that she's run, but it hasn't been, you know, the 2022, 2023, 2021 mod that we all know.
Speaker 2:That being said, it's hard to count her out of the top five, I think. Do I think she's going to get a course record? No, but do I think she'll be under three hours, which is usually top five or so? I think she can be under three hours, so I do have her in my top five, but she also has a question mark for me too, um, but I just I have a really hard time counting her out because she hasn't showed up to this race and and had a terrible day, so she's got it pretty dialed it's. It's almost like trying to count pillion out. After taking a few years off, he still shows up and throws down. So, um, as long as she's healthy, which I don't necessarily, she's not the loudest person on social media, so you can't always tell how healthy someone is, but, um, in my mind, she's pretty picky about the races that she shows up to and actually runs, and she's usually racing them healthy, so I would um, I do have a hard time not betting on her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, just like I have so much respect for that woman. Oh my God, Like the Pike's peak marathon course record.
Speaker 2:Like or I guess, maybe she did a altitude camp. But regardless.
Speaker 1:Like it's just a like the fact that at least she did that. Um, there's just like I don't know so many things that she's accomplished in her career. That's like damn. Um yeah, what a killer. Um, yeah, lots of amazing things to say about her. Do you think? Just like, looking at this women's field, is this a I don't want to say an average women's field, or would you say this is above average women's field for this year? Like, is this like as deep as it gets? Three quarters is as deep as it gets. It's hard to say, cause I feel like there's a lot of consistency in how deep these fields are.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's pretty on par with what you usually see, and every single year I'm like this is definitely the deepest, this is insane. And then the results are very similar, like the times are still really similar. So I'm I'm curious because again this year I'm like this is the deepest field I've ever seen and I I do think that the times are probably going to be quite similar and I again I hope I'm proven wrong but, um, there are a lot of names that could be in the top 10, but I don't think that it's much different than the last, you know four or five years. It feels like there's always 15 women that could comfortably be in the top 10, and then another you know 10 that you cannot count out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally agree. One thing I do want to note too the um, just the depth of the kenyan field. I feel like we continue to see more and more athlete representation from that area of the world is so deep, like the between. I think it's the millimani runners, the solomon there's is it the solomon milliman? Something like that, and then there's run together obviously yeah um, just between those two teams.
Speaker 1:And then normal, like joyce naru, uh flair, eskasang. Um, who had a fourth place finish last year in 2024 um valentine rudo excuse me if I mispronounce a lot of these names uh faith kipaglot, caroline kimutai and obviously, uh, reigning champion jolene yeah, so lots of like. The depth is deep when it comes to the kenyans and same equally represented on the men's side as well, which?
Speaker 2:yeah, it is. It's it's cool to see so many um I I guess those teams have really filled out and the depth is definitely there. I I mean there's always a good number of I, I think. Only I want to say it was only run together in the past.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:And there was maybe one other, but it really is cool to see a lot of these names coming out there and taking a stab at it and these are objectively very fast athletes. So, yeah, I'm really excited. I've run, I've raced for Larry's a lot, um, I've raced joining a few times and they are very, very talented. I think for Larry's the only way, um. So I've beat for us a few times, but only when there's a significantly technical downhill, otherwise it's like absolutely gone. So it's, and I believe falaris was also top three in the vk championships at the last worlds. So a lot of uphill talent, a lot of road speed. So yeah, it'll be really exciting to see these teams come out in full force it's interesting, it's and I've had this.
Speaker 1:David norris made this uh comment. It's very similar comment. When we were talking about it was like a Cirque series race a few years ago that Patrick and Phil.
Speaker 2:Martin were in last year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brighton, and he said something along the lines. He's like man, when I got them onto the really technical stuff he's like that's where they struggled immensely. And he's like when I have them on the runnable stuff, chance, but the technical stuff they seem to struggle on a little bit. So if there is an Achilles heel, that seems to be that seems to be it, and I think that goes for.
Speaker 2:That's a good note to take, for for any road athlete that's coming to this race Um, you know, whether they're from Kenya or the UK or anywhere um, that is probably the limiting factor is that there is still some technicality in the downhill. I think Sears and all is probably the best race to show up to with that road skill set, but I've seen a lot of these road crossover athletes have more trouble on the technical downhills. So that's what you have to capitalize on when you're racing the roadies.
Speaker 1:You have to capitalize on when you're racing the, the roadies, um, but someone like I know we haven't mentioned her yet, but Lauren Gregory is a technical, so I think it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I, I actually that's. That's one of the road crossover athletes that I would not count out on a downhill and I wouldn't want to be near her on a downhill.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, yeah All right, let's uh, let's get into the men's field. Obviously, kj is not coming back this year, Uh, so returning champion, of course, record holder will not be there, but eight of the top 10 returning uh athletes from 2024. Um so, with the exception of Killian and Remy Bonet, eight of the top 10 and men will be back uh to represent and throw down um largest country I bet you can't get. Let's see if you can get it. You'll probably get it, it's so easy. What's the largest country represented in the men's elite field?
Speaker 2:I want to say Kenya.
Speaker 1:No, switzerland no.
Speaker 2:Switzerland.
Speaker 1:Oh God, that was okay 24, 24 elite men will be competing in.
Speaker 1:Switzerland. So it is so crazy how many Swiss athletes are going to be there. Um, small but mighty American contingent we got Christian Allen, uh, grant Culligan, taylor stack, who we'll talk about. Um, andy Wacker and then Noah Williams um dude, taylor stack, last last week, three, three days. Yeah, he, you know he reminds me of a lot. I've gotten to hang out with him a couple times. He reminds me of Eli for some reason. I don't know what it is, maybe his demeanor or something, and then the way he races too. He just like a lot of like I don't know a lot of similarities to Eli, for some reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was with Taylor the day they left for Europe and that's actually the first interaction I've had with him. And um, shy guy but also so kind and um, I'm I'm really, really curious to see how he does. And Sears and all I think after last weekend, I'm like, wait a minute, this could be the year that we have two Americans in the top 10 for men and women, so this could be, this could be a really good year. It's possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think he, besides Christian Allen, I see Taylor could be the one like for sure, yeah, um, yeah, there's a lot of uh, it's not. I don't want to say it's too early to start talking about like in the ranking for T Roy. As far as Taylor goes, where his like just from the season he's had already. But if he gets a good win or not a win, but if he gets himself on the podium, top five at series and all, it's definitely worth the conversation, like I think he's having that level of season for sure top five at sears, and all for a man should definitely land in the um trail runner of the year for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, for sure, all right, contingent, contingent, or sorry, kenyan contingent. Um philemon's back. We talked about philemon, we talked about patrick dude. There's just like. This is a deep group of guys like joseph fat um, I'm not even gonna begin to try and get his name kip kip troche, fourth in 2024. Timothy kibbet, who just won pitts alpine glacier trail this past weekend, kevin kibet uh nashan, kim plamo and samuel uh kip troach. So yeah, just a crazy kenyan contingent as well, um is leonard from chenmutai.
Speaker 2:Is he kenyan? Let me see, maybe I missed it he's in my notes um, he won the. He comes from road background. He won the last world championships classic race. Uh, really, really good athlete, but I cannot remember what.
Speaker 1:I don't have him with a Kenyan flag. Okay, let me see if.
Speaker 2:I can get to find him though.
Speaker 1:Leonard Leonard, leonard, yeah, I don't see him on here. No, no, I have to go deeper, but okay well, he's definitely one to watch. Um, yeah, he's definitely a good, good athlete all right, as we get deeper into the men, I just have a question like where do you see al hussein fitting into this? Like, obviously he's raced this race before, has not had the result that he wanted. He's usually very dominant, but for some reason hasn't figured out this course. What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2:I, I don't know, I, for some reason I think I think al hussein really thrives on that technical terrain. So I think, sears and all is it's brutal, it's he's really objectively fast, so it's hard to say it's, you know, too runnable of a course for him, but I I do think that that piece might play into it. I think he could have a really really good day, um, but there's just so many names here and so many people that have gotten top five at this race before and have nailed it, that I think l, who's seen on a good day, is going to be top 10, yeah, and I think that's a safe assumption to make. Um, but I actually don't have him in my top five, which I don't either feels really intense, but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Do you think, with KJ out this year, do we get a Kenyan sweep Is that possible of the top five or top four? It was pretty damn close last year.
Speaker 2:I think it could be close, but I have some names that I do think could potentially break it up. But there is a very strong, I think, the Milamani men in particular. There's four or five athletes that are all incredibly talented. I don't know their road times in particular, but they're impressive. Like, when you look up these athletes, their IAAF comes up before their UTMB and X, which means that they're you know, they're road runners by trade, yeah, and that's that's really awesome. Like these are really really fast guys, um.
Speaker 2:But there are also a lot of athletes that aren't from Kenya that I think can break it up. I mean, you look at so Taylor Stack, for example. Last weekend at the Austria Golden Trail Race, they had kind of the climbing segment, the descending segment, and Taylor Stack was second in what I would consider a strong group of Kenyan men as well, and so he held his own. And that's not to say that this is the exact same course and he'll do the exact same thing. But I think the fact that there are people climbing, you know, with these athletes, you know, no, there's no telling what will happen. But I saw Francesco Pupi in this field, I will not count Francescoco poopy out of any race, especially if it involves fast terrain.
Speaker 2:Um steon is really good right now. He's also very fast, very talented um. And then I I mentioned leonard is also a really um comes from the road background One, the classic race in the world championship. So he's has a lot of speed. And then there's also a lot of top 10. Second place from the gamma is here. There's a lot of top 10 from the gamma and um Sylvain Kachard was top 10 at Sears and all off here as well. So I think there's a lot of people that could really break that um sweep, which would be exciting I like it.
Speaker 1:I like it all. Right, let's, let's get into it. Let's do um. Let's do start with the women. Let's do our picks.
Speaker 2:I'll let you go first okay, and we're picking five, we'll go, go five, five honorable mentions after. Okay, can I mention some names that we didn't mention also? Yeah, yeah, of course. Floria, madalena, yow Meow, alice, gaggy, rosalara are all names that we didn't mention that have all been top five here, I believe, in the last three years. So that's incredible. I I just want to start with that because that emphasizes how difficult this is for me, but I think, okay, my top five do you have them in order.
Speaker 2:Do I have to have them oh?
Speaker 1:I just threw them out. This is so hard to pick, so like I totally get it. Like, if you want to just throw I'm stressed, yeah, you don't have to do one through five. If you want to just throw names out, there go for it.
Speaker 2:I'll try. I'll try five, but um. So I would say um, and then I'll do honorable mention. So I think fifth mod um. Fourth Madalena Floria, third, fourth Madalena Floria, third the lorries, second faith and first joylene. Okay, and then honorable mention. I'm going to have lauren gregory, anna gibson and alice gaggy perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's solid. I'm pretty close, so I've got fifth. Lauren gregory, I have two americans in my top five.
Speaker 2:I just I swung for it this year very very I appreciate that because I feel now I feel sad that I didn't know it's you.
Speaker 1:You're closer to this race than I am, so like you have a much better understanding, like I only have, I think, lauren and anna, both could be in the top five, so that's possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my honorable mention is easily put in.
Speaker 1:I'm going to throw. I threw a Joyce in a ruin at fourth and, like Joyce, I know has like had some struggles at this race before.
Speaker 2:That's why I yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's also had a lot of dominance in the series. So it's like damn, it's a, you know, just came off broken arrow one. She also got second at Kobe. Struggles a little bit more on technical stuff, a little bit like had a hard time, like in the past, has actually struggled more at Kobe. So I was actually even surprised to see her second. But I'm going to throw her fourth, madalena Floria, who's gotten third at this race, before I'm going to. I put her in third place. Second place I'm going on a Gibson place. Second place I'm going on a gibson. I'm sorry, I'm going on. Yeah, I'm gonna pick on a gibson. And the reason is is like I I just think like we haven't yet figured out how good on it is. I still think like we as a collective audience are still like I still think she hasn't. She's had so many amazing performances but it hasn't hit the one yet, and I think this and she's just getting better.
Speaker 1:So I I fully think that's reasonable yep, and then first I'm gonna go, jolene hit the one yet and I think this and she's just getting better.
Speaker 2:So I I fully think that's reasonable, yep and in first I'm gonna go jolene.
Speaker 1:And the one thing I will say about anna is like, yes, she got out of the top. She was either just in the top 10 or just out in zagama, but that's such a different. Like you, you've raised zagama like yes, you're in the exact same time and place yeah yeah it's such a different race, so much more technical, um, and I wonder if she was actually probably being more conservative at zigama because she had sonapy the next weekend oh for sure, and it's also it's a five hour race.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's a little less, but still, I think I, I think this course speaks to anna gibson's strengths more than does Um. And that's not to say she can't thrive at Zygoma, because that girl can do anything she puts her mind to, but, um, I think she's only gotten better. So I, I do think a top five for her and Lauren is 100% possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think. So. I think I mean we'll see, but it's definitely um wouldn't be surprised, I'll just put that one out there, I wouldn't be surprised. Um, all right, is there any honorable mentions? Obviously, katie Shide's an honorable mention. There's quite a few women. Um, I do think, like I said you, you said something really interesting earlier. You're like, when you win one of these races, you're kind of like you're beaming. I feel like you get almost like a different level of confidence.
Speaker 1:You're kind of like you're beaming, I feel like you get almost like a different level of confidence. Yeah, with the same time does the confidence overshadow the pressure of having to repeat?
Speaker 2:Like do you think there's pressure on someone like Shalene? I think? I mean yes and no, I think at the same race, yes, so at this race, like there probably will be a bit more pressure. I think that definitely plays into it and I have felt that personally. Um, but I also think that she's done well on so many different courses recently that I just feel like she's pretty used to at least the pressure from golden trail and that's a pressure cooker. So I I don't think this will be that overwhelming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, personally, I agree, I just like, because I she's my, I think, first place, easily and same yeah yeah, all right, let's, let's talk, men I'll let you uh, I'll let you take it away for top five for men okay, let's see, this is kind of on the spot because I had a top 10 in no particular order, so no, it's good, this is good for me. Um top 5 I'm going to. Oh man, this is stressful. Uh, francesco Poopy Stian um full.
Speaker 1:Uh, francesco poopy stion um leonard patrick philemon close, very good, yeah, I'm close, very, very close, and honorable mention.
Speaker 2:I would put uh sylvain tay sack Christian Allen.
Speaker 1:Let's have a Christian Allen conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Christian to me easily. I mean and this is nothing against Taylor, this is nothing against any of the men, Cause I think we we don't know how good Taylor is yet. I think we're still trying to figure it out Taylor's nasty, but I think Christian is like supremely talented, like really really talented, like 2024 us mountain running champ. What he just did at the ascent, Like, and one of the things I really found really interesting about Christian is like didn't have the race he wanted at Sunapee, Probably came back a little too soon after injury and then goes and cracks one out of the park with the broken arrow ascent and the 23K Dude is so good. Do you think he didn't have the race he wanted to last week? But just because he, that happens like I can't count him out. Like I feel like there's something like he's very able to kind of put those things behind him and continue, like what you did with broken arrow, to be able to put some people behind him, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Christian Allen is a high volume racer. He races a lot. He's used to swinging and missing. He's used to coming back stronger.
Speaker 2:I think last week was absolutely not the course for Christian Allen. I don't think when I think muddy and technical, I think Lauren Gregory, not Christian Allen, and and the reason I'm using them both is, uh, because I think they're similar athletes. But Christian Sears and all has Christian written all over it. I think he has had some trouble with with nausea and fueling issues in the heat. Um, occ in particular is is one race that I think of with that. But I think I mean I know Christian's really fit right now. We both know that. And, um, I think he has a fire under him from last weekend and he has a new baby, so he's got that crazy new dad energy.
Speaker 2:I think I think he could do really really well here. It's, you know, like we talked about. The Kenyan contingent is so deep this year that I think I had three out of my top five um as Kenyans. But I think Christian could really break that up on a good day. The reason I didn't have him in the top five is just because, um, I think he's another person that it'd be nice to get a few more data points on. I mean, the dude ran one of the fastest road marathon debuts like ever and um, so I I'm not counting him out at all, and I would love to see him in the top five.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's so good. I think, like I think he might be a year or two away, I think, and I think when he does finally get it figured out like one of the biggest names in the sport.
Speaker 1:I think, it's totally, totally possible. Um, okay, so I'm going to go fill them on one Um, just because, like he's had so much experience in this race and for some reason he just hasn't figured out I don't know what it is, but he's got it dialed um first place in 2023, last year, second place in 2024, so close to killian. Second place. I'm gonna go patrick um he was second and then third, second and 23, third and 24. In third place, I'm gonna go timothy kibbet, who just won uh pits alpine glacier. In fourth place, I'm going joseph fat uh kip trosh, for he was fourth in 2024, and then in fifth place, I'm gonna go taylor stack throw love it. Throw a t stack in there, why not?
Speaker 2:love it. So we align on, we align on the winners, we like, mostly align on top three. I feel like and I I mean, like we mentioned, this is a toss up, it's going to be a crazy race and I think it'll'm really right for the American women and like same with American men, like um but yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's so hard to predict, you know. Yeah, it's impossible.
Speaker 2:I hope to see five American athletes. I think I think my goal is to see five American athletes in the top 10 for both fields like total. So you know, three women, two men. Is is kind of what I'm hoping, slash expecting, and and that'll be really, that would be really awesome. I mean, that'd be pretty groundbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of race. Um, what do you want to close on? Anything. You want to close on as far as the race goes, or?
Speaker 2:um, I think to all the runners out there, if you can get yourself to see ours and all someday, whether that's spectating or running. Or I think to all the runners out there, if you can get yourself to see Arizona All someday, whether that's spectating or running, or I think there's a tour, there's a tourist race where they literally start really early and they like hike the entire thing and if you can get out there, go to it. It is so worth it. And then to those competing, like I really hope that everyone has the day that they can dream of. You know, whether that's you know first or 10th, or just feeling like it's a really strong effort that someone's proud of. This is a race that it just holds so much importance to me and it's really. It is the one race where I have like physical FOMO when I'm not there. It's just there's a gravitational pull towards this race and I'm so excited to watch.
Speaker 1:Oh man, beautiful words. Bailey, I can't wait to see you back there next year, next year.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I will be back and I'm chasing the sub three barrier. So, yes, someday.
Speaker 1:Well, appreciate it. Thank you so much. This wasn't like this might've been my favorite race preview. This was great. So lots of great commentary, lots of good stuff. Uh, thank you so much for coming on and yeah, we'll do. We'll have to do this again sometime, maybe for Zagama next year with chat. This'd be a good one.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Yes, I would love that and you know, maybe we'll chat, maybe I'll be in the field.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that's true. If you're going back to Zagato, then we'll do it. We'll do pre-race interviews then instead.
Speaker 2:Yes, for sure, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no problem. Thank you, Bailey. What do you guys think? I hope you got a lot of value out of that one. What an awesome episode I want that she loves so much Um, absolute natural, like really good commentating and can provide such firsthand value on the sport.
Speaker 1:Um, so, you know, while Bailey is an amazing professional athlete and she's going to go on to continue to do amazing things in our sport she also has a future in commentating. So, guys, you can find Bailey. Give her a follow. Uh, you can find her at Bailey Kowalczyk. It's just one word Bailey B-A-I-L-E-Y Kowalczyk. That's on Instagram for her handle. Give her a follow, let her know what you guys thought about the episode and if you got some value out of it, you know, send her some words of encouragement. I think she would really appreciate that. I know she loves this race a ton, so good stuff there.
Speaker 1:If you guys did enjoy this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcast. That would mean the world to me. That's all. I can continue getting these episodes out and helping to tell the stories of some of these amazing athletes in our sport. Yeah, guys, we've got some amazing stuff coming down the pipeline. Stay tuned next week for a collaboration that's going to be dropping with the sub hub that I'm so excited for, um, yeah, so all good stuff there. Um, hope you guys have a great rest of your week. Thank you so much and, uh, thanks for tuning in people. What's going on? It is summer guys, super exciting adventures in the mountains, summer races um, you know it's about that time to start thinking about your gear.
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