The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#113 - Liam Meirow
Ever wonder what happens when one of America's most talented track athletes fully commits to the trails? Liam Meirow joins us fresh off his win at the Y East Trail Fest 28K to share exactly that journey.
Growing up in Summit County, Colorado, Liam's path wasn't initially pointed toward running - he dreamed of becoming a professional skateboarder or snowboarder. After finding success in high school running, he pursued a collegiate career at Oklahoma, where despite dedication, he never quite reached his full potential. The true breakthrough came after graduation when the pressure lifted and freedom entered his training approach.
"When you feel good and there's no stress, things just come easier," Liam explains, describing how his post-collegiate mindset shift led to remarkable performances. After joining Bowerman Track Club's elite team in Portland and working for Nike, Liam gradually transitioned to trail running. The pivotal moment arrived in 2023 when he made Team USA for the World Mountain and Trail Running Championships in Austria, placing as the top North American.
What makes this conversation particularly illuminating is Liam's candid discussion of the mental challenges elite athletes face. After signing with Nike and experiencing early success, the 2024 season brought struggles and disappointment, including missing the World Championship team. Through this adversity, Liam rediscovered his fundamental motivation: "The rock's always there. You just have to block out that other stuff and bring it back."
Today, Liam balances track workouts with trail adventures, mixing distances from 28K to 50K while keeping his training fresh and motivating. As the sport of trail running grows and evolves, his perspective on maintaining its soul while embracing professional opportunities provides valuable insight for where we might be headed.
Have you been overthinking your running? This episode might just inspire you to reconnect with the joy and freedom that made you fall in love with the sport in the first place.
Follow Liam on IG - @liamruns
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What's up, boys and girls, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Liam Miro. Guys, I am such a fan of Liam's and became such an even bigger fan of Liam's after recording this episode. For those of you who don't know that name, liam just came off a win, literally just a couple of weeks removed, from a dub at the Y East trail fest 28 K um. As well as he was runner up this past weekend on the podium at the U S ATF uh 50 K championship that took place in the Tamalpaya head, my headlands um in California. Um, the stud runner for Nike was kind enough to come on the podcast and chat all things. We talked about Liam's wise, we talked about Liam's whys, we talked about career. We talked about the way he viewed his career, what he wanted to get out of it, talked about racing, talked about taking big swings, trying to chase giant goals and kind of how he kind of views his career and what he wants to do with it. Really, really exciting episode Like this one was.
Speaker 1:We got deep. I was excited to have this conversation with Liam and he was very candid enough to be open and, you know, talk about just what was what was important to him. I think you guys are going to take a lot away from this one, so I don't want to give too much away. I'll let you get into it without further ado, liam Myra, it's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Liam Miro, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
Speaker 2:Nice, fabulous, happy to be here, man.
Speaker 1:Me too. Man, I'm excited, I'm really excited to have this conversation. You're someone I've been wanting to have on the podcast for a long time, so I feel like this was a great opportunity to do it. You just won the Y East Trail Fest 28K and I was like you know what, let trail fest 28k? And I was like you know what, let's, let's do it now. So that's, uh, that's perfect timing, man. How's, uh, how's how's recovery going? You just won a race this weekend. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, I mean so why? He's, uh, also known as mount hood, is just an hour away from my house and I just take so much pride and there's so much gratitude for backyard races and being able to sleep in your bed the night before. I think it's it's underrated, like obviously, I'm privileged to live in a location where there are quality trail races near me, but it's, it's so cool, like it. I don't really get the same anxiousness and nerves that I do at other races. Like I woke up and just made my coffee I actually made a little real. I was like I've got time, I'm, I'm home alone right now, so I've got some more like time my fiance's in Croatia, so I'm just having fun with it and yeah, the race, the race went really well, nice, nice man, well, congratulations.
Speaker 1:We'll dive into a little bit deeper because, as we get more into the questions and stuff like that, I do want to paint a picture for the audience because I feel like that that set of races in particular I feel like is really slept on, like there's a really good um, just everything from the 14k hill climb they have to the 28k, to some of the longer distances, like they've got a great set of races that they put on. So good stuff there. Um, dude, as we get started, I so I gotta say something. Like I've known about you for a long time. This sounds kind of weird. I don't want to make it weird, but like I'm like a nerd of the sport, right, and I I can remember you'd show up to these Narnar races when I first learned about the Narnar race, which I'm really upset doesn't get put on anymore and you would smoke the course a few times and I was like this kid, when he chooses to do trails, is going to be so nasty.
Speaker 1:Maybe we start from there. What about the trails excited you? Maybe weave in Colorado and where you from there. What about the trails excited you? Maybe weave in Colorado and where you're from? What about trail running gets you stoked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm 29 years old now which, hitting 29, my last year of the 20s has felt like holy crap, I've got to do all this stuff before 30. And I know, once I turned 30, nothing will change physically, it'll just be this like new mental hump to get over. But it's funny, like thinking of the NARNAR like days, which was just a few years ago, was like the start of this new era of of trail for me. But if we rewind, like 15 years ago, to my Colorado days where I grew up, for middle school and high school, that's truly where I found like this spirit within the trails. And it was just by virtue of going to school at Summit High School and having trails be the only option. For easy days it was either trails or a flat bike path. There was nothing between no dirt roads in Summit County, if you're familiar, and that's really where I fell in love with like trails and not even knowing it as a professional sport other than just a place to get lost and get technical with it.
Speaker 2:Um, but I went the typical route of high school running and collegiate running and went away from it for like seven years, um, until it was like that NARNAR period where I would jump into a couple of trail races after my track season with like zero trail, like running practice going in. It was just like finish a 1500 on the track week later jump the Narnar. So I did that for a few years after moving to Portland this was back in 2018. And yeah, I did that for like four or five years until I got to the point where it was actually when they announced the world championships for 2023 in Austria. They announced it in like December. So I just had finished club cross at the U S club cross country championships that were in Florida and Tallahassee, I believe, and they were like we're going to do USAs at Sunapee in April, and typically it was in June or July, and I was like why don't I like skip indoor track and just actually train for three months on a trail and like try and make a world team?
Speaker 2:So you know, long story short made the world team just said I'm done with track forever. Not forever, I still do a lot of track stuff. But um, yeah, now we're here two years in.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's crazy, absolutely crazy. I do want to rewind a little bit, just because, like dude, you're probably one of outside of, like Dan Kurtz, garrett corcoran, like you're one of the most highly I guess you could like really call it like highly touted, most talented athletes to really enter our sport, which is kind of christian allen too. Like there's like quite a class in the last few years of dudes coming into our sport that are just like have this insane track pedigree. Um, let's talk about you. Like what was high school like for you? Did you know you wanted to run in college? Was that a goal for you? What about it? Because obviously you were good at it. You found something you were good at and you pursued it. So maybe talk about that. How college came to life for you from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I fell into running.
Speaker 2:I wasn't always a runner and not everyone is always a runner, but I grew up wanting to be a professional skateboarder and snowboarder.
Speaker 2:Like looking at people like Sean White um, like I'm the same age as Nigel Houston, so like seeing those people as my peers and like watching skate videos morning, noon and night, like that was my bread and butter. But I started going down the wrong path with that culture and eventually decided to try out for running my freshman year of high school and just fell in love with it and progressively became more motivated and dedicated to the sport and realized that was my ticket for a college scholarship because my family wasn't in a spot to pay like probably severely dedicated to a fault in high school, um to where, like going to college and seeing all these people that were better than me was like such a shocker, um, but yeah, it was. High school was such a fun, like freeing journey. The place I'm at right now, like as a professional, is most similar to how I felt in high school surprisingly, not how I felt in college or the couple of years after college.
Speaker 1:Let's talk like recruitment. Like what was it like for you getting recruited? Cause I know you went to go, you know run at Oklahoma, which is so crazy to go D one and like run at a huge school, like that. Like what was the recruitment process? Like, were you targeting a bunch of different schools? Like how did you land at Oklahoma?
Speaker 2:Yeah, james, this is going to take 30, like 20 seconds. Yeah, Banana bread in the oven.
Speaker 1:Oh, go for it, go for it, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good. Pause it.
Speaker 2:It'll be a great intermission. I'll be back, okay, and that break brought to you by Roaring Fork Banana Bread. So I was lucky enough to have a phenomenal private high school coach. That was the coach during the 70s and 80s at the University of Florida who actually hired Coach Holloway, who's the director of track and field there Now. He coached a bunch of Olympians and he was this 75 year old dude living in Frisco, colorado, who was just coaching uh athletes privately. He actually coached Tabor and Tyler Scholl during high school, a bunch of other uh folks who run professionally now, and so he showed me the ropes to how to get into college.
Speaker 2:And I was sending letters uh with my like running resume and it to every single division, one school in the country. Um, people don't do that now, but it was like I was kind of on the cusp of like old school meets new school, with like the whole technology and the NIL stuff and all that business, um, the NIL stuff and all that business, um. But took my official visits and Oklahoma is where I landed. I love the. The coach was great, the facilities were amazing. I wanted to go to like a big school and like go to the football games and um, yeah, it was, it was a cool place to go. Um, yeah, it was, it was a cool place to go. Um, oklahoma is a bit different like culture wise then than I would uh, choose now, but I have some of my best friends from that era, so I'm grateful.
Speaker 1:What was it like in the program? Like it's funny man. Like I talked to a lot of people. Like D one athletes and it's very split. Some people have a great experience and some people hate it. Um like what was your, your experience like there?
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny how you're like in the trail world it's like I'm a fast track runner, but in the track world I'm not fast. Like I'm I'm okay, but there's like I mean this is kind of like made fun of too much, but it's like, oh, I wasn't fast enough to run tracks. I'm running trails now, um, and then you learn that like not everyone can transition to trails just because they're fast on the track. Um, so I was not good in college. Like I got my ass whooped every year. Like I went to nationals a couple of times, um, like for cross country and on a relay for indoor track, but I wasn't some like crazy decorated all American that I had set out to be going in. Um, like being Colorado state champion. Um, it was. Yeah, I struggled for sure.
Speaker 2:And in college I say I had a great experience, just because, like, I'm not like bitter by any means, but there was a reason I continued to pursue running post-collegiately, because there was just so many things I knew I was capable of doing that either like the coaches or the program wasn't conducive to those goals. Um, and just the environment I was in just never really allowed me to to be like the free person and like to not have the stress, uh, to run like I knew I was able to and so like, literally the year after graduating college was when, like I finally took off and I broke for it for the mile and did all these other things that like came frankly easy while I was living like a life that included a nine to five job and like moving across the country. And yeah, it's like when you feel good and there's no stress, it's like things just come easier, man. I mean, it's not saying I didn't work hard, but like just feels more natural.
Speaker 1:That's well, that's what I was going to ask you. What do you think that is Like? By alleviating that level of stress or taking certain things off your shoulder, you're able to have all these breakthroughs. Like what do you think that that is?
Speaker 2:Well, a big thing that that I say like on runs with people, is like there's no one to report to once you finish college as far as, like, you don't get this like peer pressure to run when you're kind of injured In the real world at least I don't, or I don't let myself get that Whereas in college it's so hard to show up to practice with like a nagging, like calf injury, or like your foot kind of hurts, or like your hip feels a little funky, like you always get persuaded to run when you know you shouldn't. And in the real world I wake up and my knee hurts. I don't have to tell anyone. I just don't run that day and it's great.
Speaker 2:And then the next day I'm running again and I'm not like worried about like, oh, like my teammates are going to think I'm like being being lame or my coach is going to like I think I'm not going to be fit enough for the next race. So yeah, I don't know if a lot of people relate to that, but I just feel like there's not having this like hierarchy of like the NCAA system and like people really counting, counting you like every single day. It's like a vicious cycle to be in and that's just my experience in the program I was in. But I love like I have teammates now, I have a coach now, but it's like it's not like an every single day situation. Like I said, I wake up and something's hurting, like I'm confident to take the day off or do what I need to do and that's yeah, that's why I'm running.
Speaker 1:well now, how did Bowerman come about? Like how? Because I, you gotta remember, like I came from a soccer background, so like automatically, when I think, oh, if you're racing this, you know, dude from Bowerman, like you're going to get smoked because like it's this track club and stuff like that. Before I purposely did not do a ton of research into bowerman before we got into the episode because I wanted you to paint the picture like what is, how did that come about? And like what, what is bowerman?
Speaker 2:so bowerman track club, formerly known as the bowerman athletic club, bac people. Bac people call it BTC now. It started in 2003 as a, a team that was Nike employees doing hood to coast um, which is a race that's in two weeks now, from Timberline to Seaside um, with just Nike employees. That then sprouted into a youth club where know kids would come and the adults would show them the ropes and they'd run races on the weekends during cross country Um. 10 years later is what? When it became global is when, like Jerry Schumacher, moved out here and started the club um, with the professional athletes, and so Chris Lindsay, matt Teggenkamp, shalane Flanagan, evan Jaeger uh, those are the folks that that made it into what, like people know it as today, um, but at that same time, we still had the elite team, which is just post-colleges like me.
Speaker 2:We had a master's group, the youth club. We have a summer camp now track program it's everything, and it's everything's based in Portland, and so when I moved out here in 2018, I joined that club as just like an elite group to train with. Everyone had run in college, everyone works on the club, but we train in the morning and it's just like a post-collegiate group. That's like people have high level goals but no one has a contract. But we've got folks making the Olympic trials and the marathon, so it's a solid group to train with. And I still train with that group, um, and it's made me into what I am today. Uh, we meet two to three times a week, uh, typically out at nike, and, yeah, we go wild that is so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see, I gotta be honest with you, I had. No, I thought it was like this, like super, like hot, like a bro Brooks Beast kind of thing. It's like what I originally had the idea of.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, the Bowerman Track Club, as the pro team, which no longer exists as of January of this year, was a Brooks Beast or Union Athletics Club or On Athletics Club. So now it's just the elite team and the community team. We have a global membership and we have community practice once a week at Nike, so it's open to the public. There's just different tiers for the elite team and the perks you can get and travel and races and the kit, et cetera. Super cool.
Speaker 1:Let's talk post-collegiate racing and pursuits. Obviously, there was that bridge of time after you left college and before you jumped on the trails. What were you pursuing like in that, in the kind of in that timeframe?
Speaker 2:It was. I was mainly staying local with races. I was running like the Portland track festival. Here I was running club cross. So for I guess it was like that four year period from like 2019 until 20, 22, 23, I was primarily focused on the 1500 mile. I was doing club cross. I was running road races. Everything was 10 K and under Um, so running wasn't like I was actually working full time at Nike. Uh, so I wasn't running full time, I was just running for the love of it and uh, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:I like dude. What is it like being? Like? Let's say, I just love to see you know different brand affiliations, in that sense, like throughout, like a life cycle, and like it's kind of cool. You worked there as an employee. Now you're obviously an athlete for nike on the trail side or acg, but like, maybe talk a little bit about like what it's like being an employee, um, or what it was like being an employee for them, like working for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I first had the opportunity as a rising senior in college to intern at Nike. So I got the internship during my junior year summer, moved out to Portland for three months and interned in the human resources department and my major in school is human resource management within the business world and had an awesome intern experience and was lucky enough to get the full-time offer that fall. So my entire senior year I knew I was coming back to Portland and moving out here and then I had an amazing three-year experience at Nike working on various programs within the diversity, equity, inclusion space and I just got to a point where I wanted new experiences and Nike was kind of all I knew. So, uh, over the last three years I've been doing freelance work, uh, in more of the creative sector, um, you know, working with, with Bowerman, other agencies, um, and doing design work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your posts are so cool, like the ones with, like the, the minivan, and like the different Nike ones and stuff like what, obviously maybe talk about the influence of those, just because it feels like an old Nike ad from like the eighties and nineties. It's pretty dope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the ones you're talking about, with, like the text on the bottom, are definitely inspired by the old Nike ads, for sure, but I just love graphic design. I mean, I love videography, editing, creative direction, art direction. But, like when I'd make a post, I just like to make sure it's really sexy looking, and so I've been digging into a lot of like writing as well, with like with racing and training, and those posts are kind of like my version of a post race blog. It's like a very succinct version of like how I felt about that race, and so I've put that out there. Instead of putting it in a caption, I just embedded it into the, the graphic itself. And yeah, I don't do that every time. I'm not like a heavy poster, but when I do, I spend some time on it. They're awesome.
Speaker 1:Like I said, 10 out of 10. Like I was really impressed. I was like, ah, that's a very I don't know. I always appreciate people that can be original and do like original stuff and I'm like, ah, that's very original, that stands out. So it was enough that it caught my eye and enough for me to bring it up. So super cool. Thanks, james Dude, I want to talk to you about 2023. I think this was like a very pivotal year for you in trail running, free trail, um. You know kind of documented this thing called rookie season with you where you went over to Europe to to go race. Maybe can you paint a picture of like the races that you did, the experience and like how that even came about. Like how did your start with dylan, um, and how was this like this journey kind of paved the way for you?
Speaker 2:yeah. So 2023 was the year I decided to like go full and on trail with like the goal of like making the world team. I was like if I can train for three months, I think I can make the world team, and that was like my goal was like to get the usa kit and be like peace out. I'm retired and my first like competitive race in that that journey to sunopee was the gorge waterfalls, 30k and I showed up with no fuel and like bailey was at the start, who I'm teammates with now, and she was like shoving all this gels into her like bell. I didn't have a bell, had nothing and ended up winning that race and met debo there for the first time because he free trail puts that on with daybreak and he's like dude, what are you doing, man, like like what's next for you?
Speaker 2:I was like I'm training for the us mountain champs man, which were like a month later. So ran us mountain champs got third. Uh, which were like a month later. So ran us mountain champs got third place there for us um went to worlds and like placed way higher than I thought I would. I ended up being the first North American um there and that was like kind of like. My intended swan song in a sense was like I'm gonna go to worlds and like it's gonna be amazing and that's gonna be it, you know so you're playing on being done.
Speaker 2:Then I mean I wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna, like you know, put my shoes in a box, but I was. I had no idea what the trail world really held and, like my goal was just to get the kit man, like I just wanted, I was just like having fun, like that was the main thing for me, was like I spent so much of my life being so dedicated, like with the college era, to like to a fault of like no result success. So I was like I find more success just having fun and not planning things out. Um, however, being in austria for 10 days and like being around all these signed athletes, I was like, wait a sec, you guys all get paid for this. And there was only like three of us on team usa. It was like me, gar and like a couple other people who, like weren't signed, and we were all like what's going on? Um, so I was like I should start talking to some companies and I was like I got to have some more results first. So I ended up going to the NACAC uh championships in Canada and I won that um, which was which, which was really cool. And then I was told you got to go to Europe. So I hit Debo back up, pitched him this idea and they paid for my my flights out to Europe and I hit like the World Cup circuit and started off low and then ended up finishing. And started off low and then ended up finishing third in the world cup final behind patrick and philmon. It was like on paper, that's like probably my best race ever, just because I was like it's just like me and patrick and philmon on the podium, um, and like it was kind of that phase where I thought I had like everything figured out and it was like, holy shit, like I'm so good right now.
Speaker 2:Um signed with Nike a few months later at the start of the year and then told myself I was like and my coach told me this he was like you don't need to change anything like transition smoothly, but of change anything like transition smoothly. But, of course, like being who I am and like being super competitive, and I like planned everything out and just got my ass whooped in 2024, like I don't shy away from competition, I just entered everything. I just entered everything and went everywhere and just had such bad luck and bad races and like it was. It was a brutal year, just like the lowest I've felt in the sport since, like some rough patches in college and I just had to like rewire like my whole brain of like why am I doing this? Like I didn't know if I was going to go into 2025, like as a pro trail runner.
Speaker 2:Um, and so at the start of this year, like again I had the goal, like the big goal was to make the world team again. Um, kind of jumping around here, but James, but you're fine man, I love it.
Speaker 2:The big goal was like to make, to make the world team. But I was also telling myself, like, if I don't make the world team, like it's like not everything, um, like it'll be devastating for sure. But yeah, I mean obviously spoiler, I didn't make the world team and it was just like. I mean, that day I think it was just a bad day. Um, uh, there was a few things I could have done to prepare better for the actual race itself, um, but I just got beat by like really fast dudes like, and the team that we're sending for the course in Spain. I think the team couldn't be better and I think where I'm at development-wise, it's not a runner's course, it's more of a hiker's course, I guess, even though they won't be hiking. So I feel good with the team.
Speaker 2:It's not like I'm salty, but I also thought I would be more like, like just depressed, I guess, about not making the team.
Speaker 2:But like after one day I was like this isn't everything Like there's, we are lucky enough in the sport of mountain and trail and I say we just as like anyone who runs, cause there's no governing body, it's just the wild, wild West that, like we are, we are lucky to not be held to just team spots.
Speaker 2:Um, unlike track and field and that's one of the reasons why I moved over was it's less black and white and just the lifestyle is more conducive, or the training is more conducive to the lifestyle I want to have, and it's just more freestyle.
Speaker 2:And so I had to like reorient my whole schedule because I was planning on like doing this race and then going to Spain, yada, yada, um, and I've just been having a blast for the last two months, like just doing the stuff that truly makes me happy and in in the result, I race so much better, which rewind back to like 2023 was like how I, how I was able to run so well, like I want to, went to Sunapee just like um, just like wanting to rip, like not many expectations and like did that whole season, like that um, just kind of like piece piecing things together. And so there's some strategy in the chaos now, but a lot of it is based on what excites me and just being a gamer on race day, and just being a gamer on race day is really what it boils down to.
Speaker 1:Dude, I love that. I love there's so many things I can ask you off that. I think it's really important to. I just find the mental aspect so interesting, you know, and I think that really affects a lot of people too If you have too much going on or if you're too focused and too hell bent on one thing. I mean, dude, you're not the only one. I've seen that in other athletes too, and people I won't name. But some obvious choices for Team USA besides yourself, where it just seemed like it was going to be their day and it didn't pull out and it didn't happen. That way, no-transcript Nike, come about again in your life, like was that? You pursued them, they pursued you. How did how did that all become a thing when you decided that you wanted to sign with them as a brand?
Speaker 2:So from the start when I joined Bowerman as like an elite member to now still training with that team. I'm like just very embedded with Nike, especially living in Portland and having access to the world headquarters campus with the track and the facilities. Like my coach works for Nike and it just when I was talking with other companies I just wasn't willing to like kind of leave the folks who got me to where I am to like to get a paycheck and not any company would be that transactional but essentially with the training group I have now not being with Nike would make it pretty hard to train with them. Um, cause not everyone is like I'm the only one signed that trains with the Bauerman elite team but they all wear Nike stuff because they're on a club. So if I was showing up in another company's kit onto campus, like that would only work for so long.
Speaker 2:Um, like I mean, nike is just kind of who I wanted to roll with it just like it just felt right, and also being this like trifecta athlete, with still dabbling on the roads and the track, they've got the full product suite and I've been wearing nikes forever.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, it's a good it's a good fit, man, it's such a good fit and you guys have such a dirty team. I mean like between, like you, christian bailey, like dude, like I could sit here and name like 10 athletes off the top of my head that are just like it's such a good. Yeah, like nikes really really come up in the last few years. Let me ask you this I think the audience would get a kick out of this If you can explain this whole ACG thing. I don't think. I think people are seeing it. I just saw you drink from a I think it was a cup that had the ACG logo on it.
Speaker 2:Brand pops everywhere. I have to be careful with how much I say. But yeah, I, acg is. Acg has been around for a long time, since 1989, and we're just, we're coming back strong and yeah, nike trail may not be around forever, but there's a big push for acg and it's gonna be a beautiful thing Like the. The apparel is amazing. I love the logo They've got a couple of different logos and yeah, I mean there's, there's a lot that's encompassed within the ACG umbrella and I think, as, like a trail runner, like we're just first and foremost outdoors people, um, and so acg just allows us to to like open the aperture a bit to what a trail runner does, and that's also skis in the winter and you know they may put on a wetsuit and go surfing. Like ACG is a little bit of everything and so for me that feels really good and the company's also in for that.
Speaker 1:So so we'll be seeing a lot more ACG then in the future. I can, I can.
Speaker 2:I can guess.
Speaker 1:Dude, I want to get back to a deep question.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that you kind of talked about was just your struggle to this, like this mantra of like freedom, flexibility and like adventuring, and just like the ability to create and being a professional trail runner and like and not even like the word professional, just like leading my life with competitive trail racing just allows all those other things to make more sense. Like I just really I'm first and foremost, I'm extremely competitive, foremost like extremely competitive, and so running allows me to express that competitive side best, just because I happen to be most gifted as at it, whereas, like, if I was as good as I am at skating or running as I am can't even speak right now I was as good at skating as I was running. I would definitely be a professional skateboarder or snowboarder. If I could play basketball, like I'd be in the NBA. But running is where I was set, along with all the other things that running brings me, is my meditation and my therapy. Meditation and my therapy, but it's, um, yeah, that that why has always been there, I think.
Speaker 2:So, to answer your question succinctly, james, is the why has never shifted of like what the concrete foundation sentences? Here's my why it's the, it's all the noise that like drifts, that so like you can no longer touch it every day, so you want to wake up and like your rock is on your nightstand as your, you're like, boom, let's go. It's at the type of shoes hit the streets but with like stress contracts, other people, like all of those things like sometimes hide your rock and you can't find it. And so then you start looking for other things and you're like I mean I need to rewrite my why, um, but the rock's always there. It's just you have to like block out that other stuff and and bring it back Um. Block out that other stuff and and and bring it back Um. So in 2024, I got caught up in like expectations and like what is required of me as an, as a pro athlete in my first year, and kind of like you didn't pick up my rock every morning and was like focused on other business.
Speaker 1:Dude, what a good. That's a really good answer and I appreciate you being candid and being open and talking about your journey. Let's shift into I want to shift in training You'd mentioned. Your coach is mentioned. Your coach works for Nike. How has things shifted a little bit? Where obviously you're a trail athlete first, you also mix it up on the roads and the track. How do you balance everything? Is it more trail first, more than anything? As far as all your volume, I did lurk you on Strava a while ago when we were doing race previews and stuff like that. I didn't see much other than just a lot of crowns on certain random days. But other than that and some stuff on, like the Wildwood Trail and stuff like that. But what do your days look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So racing wise, it's just trails, like, as far as, like the very serious races that are like a races, it's just trail, very serious races that are like a races, it's just trail. But training wise, I, I divide my time across the services pretty equally and that's from like that's what makes me feel good and I think that's what will make me into the best trail runner possible. Like, no one runs a hundred percent on trails, um, a typical week is well, I can give you just trans. So for one, I don't, I don't do my daily on strava, I just use it as like like crown flexes, essentially, um, being fully honest, like I don't need to put everything on there, it's just like so I can check in and stuff, because I do like most of my trail stuff solo, um. So let's say, last saturday I'll start with like next.
Speaker 2:Last wednesday, so like three days out from y east, uh, did a track workout, k's and 2k repeats at threshold um at nike. So I did like just four miles worth of work at like four, 45 to five minute pace, um, and then Thursday did an hour and 15 minutes easy on the trails, um, and then Friday ran 30 minutes in strides. So just like classic pre-race, like didn't, didn't really like taper for ys too much, but like I still go easy the day before, like 30 minutes in strides, like I do that for any race under the sun, um ran y East. And then Sunday, uh, did a two hour bike ride. Monday, did another 75 minute run on trails and strides. Tuesday today, uh, woke up, went for a morning walk, came back, had breakfast, drove out to the gorge, did another 75 minutes on trails, dipped in a waterfall. Came back, had breakfast, drove out to the gorge, did another 75 minutes on trails, dipped in a waterfall. Came home, made a homemade BLT, delicious banana bread, and then got on the steep stuff podcast. How are we doing with that?
Speaker 1:That's a good day, dude, I like it. I like it. This is, this is a good, this is a good schedule. I gotta ask you this, cause it sounds, I mean, I mean, I love that you're. You still mix in the track. I find that the track has improved, just like my training for trails, immensely, um, and I think that for I'd race a lot of the like the shorter like more like mountain classic stuff in the like cirque series and stuff like that, and it helps so much. Dude, it's crazy how much like spending time on the track um has just made immense differences in my running. But anyway, long story short, yeah, um, do you this was more of an altitude question. Being born at altitude, do you ever find, like, did you have a hard time at broken arrow, like when you went up there to race, or was it easy for you?
Speaker 2:so I was actually born in Atlanta in Georgia and I lived there till I was 10 and then moved to Summit for the start of sixth grade. So I have like, I think, like in my bones I'm like a humidity person, so I do like pretty well in the heat. Uh, I think the altitude does not come easy anymore, like once I moved away after college. Like I do not have this innate altitude mechanism that one wouldn't think, or maybe if I was born there. But yeah, if I go to altitude unless it's like why used to like, like, why used to be top out at 8500, I race fine there. I wake up, do the race, come home.
Speaker 2:But if you go like a few days before and like spend some time, like that's really when it kicks your ass because it like gives you a chance to have like a night's sleep and like you do a run and you don't feel great and you start overthinking everything. So racing altitude is for sure tough, being at sea level. Um, broken arrow. I was able to acclimate in colorado for a couple weeks, so it didn't. I mean I just got broken. Air was just hard, regardless of the altitude or not, but I was able to like not feel like the only culprit to broken arrows. Toughness was altitude, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was. It wasn't a specific broken arrow question, I was just out of pure curiosity, just because of living at sea level. I live in Colorado spring, so I'm at six, 6,500 feet. So I always ask the question to folks that live at sea level, like, do you prefer to live at sea level versus altitude? Because I think there's advantages to both. The power you can generate at sea level I'll never be able to generate anything near that type of power at high altitude, right, and there's different trade-offs, right. For instance, if I was to race a high altitude race, it's a little bit more of an advantage versus someone coming from sea level, so there's trade-offs with it.
Speaker 1:Uh, let's talk racing a little bit. I do want to get into Sunapee and I want to talk, to talk about broken arrow and then why East and then the rest of your season? Um, dude, sunapee, crazy race this year like super wild. You took a swing there and you also took a swing up broken arrow, Most wild. You took a swing there and you also took a swing up broken arrow. Most of the question I want to get into was that were you targeting originally the mountain classic and then pivoted to the short trail, or did you always have a plan to do both?
Speaker 2:no, not at all. I mean, the goal was just make was to make the um world team for classic and then do the 23k at broken arrow. And then do the 23k broken arrow. And then had to rewrite the whole itinerary and was like well I'm, I gotta take another shot at making the world team and I I don't think that I guess like this is where the altitude comes into play. I was like I don't think I have a chance in the vk so I didn't even do that, I just did the 46K and I also, like you know, I was like hopeful but I was like I don't train for that distance in that terrain, like in just my development as a runner. So I actually was like pretty happy with how it turned out, getting 14th place. I wasn't like holy shit, shit, I missed the team again. But uh, yeah, that's kind of like when the whole era of like I'm just gonna have fun, do what I want, kind of kicked off, was like I'm still going to broken era, I'm gonna give it a shot. Uh, two days later won the precision 100 meter dash when I claimed the fame Um, and then, yeah, I was able to do, I mean, even after Santa P.
Speaker 2:Like the next week is when I went to Colorado and like two days before I was on the phone with Cade and I was like yo, are you long running on Sunday? And he's like no, I'm racing GoPro. And I was like dude. So I changed my flight from New York to Denver like to be six hours earlier, landed Saturday at 2 pm, drove up to Silverthorne, spent the night and then got second at the 10K the next day and like beat some of the guys who made the team the week before and it was like I just needed centipede to be a week later.
Speaker 2:But uh, I was just doing my thing, like that's kind of when I run best, was like there was no pressure. I made the decision the day before to race and, yeah, things have gone really well since then and I mean I'm able to look back at it now and take a lot of learnings from it. And I'll look back in two years and be like suddenly it was just a blimp and you know, missing worlds is a bummer, but it's really. There's so many other great things I want to do out there and, um, yeah, spain will have to wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean dude, you're also so young, I mean you, you like literally 20,. 27 is right around the corner. You'll be competing for that spot. Yeah, yeah, um, all right, so this kind of changes. My question then so obviously, how does that? How does it shape the rest of your season, though? Like is there, is there anything particular like you've been really wanting to do, or are you just going to kind of wing it and see what happens?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean I do have like a lot of races lined up. So since, since Sunapee there was, I did the 10 K race, got second there, then went to Broken Arrow, um, did this a hundred meter dash, uh. Then got to go to Western States and just like spectate acg athletes, um. And then I came home after that, being gone for like a month from sun and p through western states, and I captured this like coveted fkt that's only a mile long in forest park and as like a regional civilian of the pnw, you will know what bpa road is, but it's one mile straight gravel uphill, 900 feet and it's the only fkt that like is not owned by a local.
Speaker 2:And jim walmsley had it oh okay, from like two years ago, from when he like popped in to meet with the Hoka team here, and I've attempted it a few times now and I've been like way off and like just been racking my brain Like how, like how did he run 820 on this thing? And I was like did he use pulls? And it's just a Strava segment and so like Strava segments are like plus or minus 10 seconds and yada, yada. But so I showed up from Western like the next day it was like 90 degrees out. I went out there at noon but I was coming off like this altitude high, so I was like I only got a short window to like execute on this and I just ran it as if I was running a sub four mile and broke it by like 20 seconds or no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 20 seconds. Um, he ran eight, 10, actually I ran seven, 50. And it was like I was like delirious at the top, like stumbling around. Um, so that was like I enjoy FKTs and like not everything lines up for a race. But, uh, that was like I enjoy FKTs and like not everything lines up for a race, but that was like a big goal of mine.
Speaker 1:What's the gap on that Is that like in the threes?
Speaker 2:I don't actually know. I don't think it's that sexy of a gap. I feel like Strava gaps kind of screw you, to be honest, sometimes.
Speaker 2:Like they're not as impressive as you would think. Like you rarely see people with like four low gaps yeah, never in the races. But it's like you're. You're running a four low effort in a trail race a lot of the time. Anyways, I agree, I agree. So that was fun. Um, four days later I want to road 5k on July 4th, um, and then. And then the last thing was why East? I think Um, so why East? And then this weekend I'm running the USATF 50 K trail championships in Marin County. So the, the headlands race and yeah, again it's. It's my third 50 K this year, which is like not like I wouldn't characterize that as my distance, but again, I'm just doing what excites me right now and it just I love that area. It's like so beautiful and, um, I'm not going to europe until next week and I didn't do the sierra's and all thing this year and I was like, let's, let's go to the 50k champs.
Speaker 1:all right, I like it, dude let's, uh, I gotta ask you this like what, what about it? Is it because, like I said, you raced broken arrow, you raced this uh and then you raced, uh, what was it gorgeous? 50k as well. What? What about this distance? Has you intrigued, like, is it more figuring out more of a puzzle? As far as the nutrition goes, as far as the distance, like trying to nail that, like, what about it? Has your uh is wracking your brain?
Speaker 2:yeah. So the original one, the 50k, in april this year I was coming off like this new, like experiment with higher volume, with just more run volume, and so it was just a good opportunity to like put that to the test. Um, so I was doing like my highest mileage weeks ever in january, february, march, so I went into that race, like just coming off a volume build, and the idea was to do that. I did a half marathon two weeks later and then, um, like hindsight it might have been like all a little bit too much within that that month, coming off the volume build, and I never really got to adapt to the, to the volume, but who knows? Um, but it's, it's a fun distance Like.
Speaker 2:I think there's a chance or there's an opportunity to kind of like enjoy running when you're in it, like it's not so pedal to the metal from the gun and that's kind of nice you know to, to just like be in a race but to like have a conversation. Um, it's a little bit weird too, because I'm so used to like being like redlining from the get-go. Um, so that's something that I have to learn and be more patient with. Um, broken arrow was was insane and a lot of that was just to make the world team and then for this race, just the timing's right and um, I love doing the like us championship races. I just think, like I guess that's like the track runner in me, like to me everyone should do all the usatf like championship races, like there's different ways to grow the sport and I think like showing up to like our only federation's championship is one way, um, and it should be pretty competitive too oh yeah, I think cole campbell's gonna be there.
Speaker 1:He's a reigning champ. I think there's gonna be dudes. Dudes are showing up, so it should be a good one yeah I know I've peeked at the entry list a couple times.
Speaker 2:Um, I think like the best guys are either in europe right now running occ or heading to worlds or whatever. But you know it'll be good it's gonna be a good one.
Speaker 1:No doubt, no doubt. Yeah, dude, I, I, um, I'm very curious to see, like as an as an elite athlete in the sport, as someone that's really coming to the sport in the last three years and has seen it probably change drastically in those in that time, like, where do you want to see the sport go? Like, what do you want to see out of the sport?
Speaker 2:well. Well, I'll answer this with like. I mean, there's different facets I can answer this with, but I'll look at it from the like monetization standpoint which, like my opinion, is like a pro runner, I guess can matter from some perspectives and not from others. But, as I was saying earlier with, we're privileged as trail runners to not have everything boiled down to making a world team, because some of the best runners never even try making a world team, whereas if you were a track runner and you were like, yeah, I'm not going to show up to us champs, then no one would sign you. But in trail it's like almost incentivized to not run us champs. It's like it's kind of like upside down in a way. However, I think that's beautiful and, um, like it's nice to. It's hard to articulate what I'm thinking, but it's nice to not have the like, the pressure to do all those things. Um, but I think that comes at a sacrifice of like really growing the sport to this like pinnacle, like Olympic dream type thing, and so they're talking about like beginning Olympics in like 2032 and like that's awesome. But I think the reasons why a lot of us run trail is so we don't have to worry about the Olympic dreamic dream. It's like that creates this, like this line of like, whether your career was a success or failure, if you made the olympics and we know, if they do it in 2032, it's going to be probably a sub-ultra race. So, like someone, any of like the goats will never be an olympian, and then they'll be judged if they were an olympian or not. And it's just like I don't know. Uh, so I I think there's like the cool factor of of growing the sport and and it leaning into like people are making more money and stuff, but there's this, this sweet spot of that it is really free right now. I mean, I can compare it to like in skateboarding too. There's kind of this like contest culture versus just just you know street skating culture and some of the best skaters in the world aren't contest skaters, meaning like they don't sign up to you know skate in the detour or the X games, but they shred. And there's kind of the same thing in trail running, where it's like some of the best people out there like aren't signing up for hard rock, but like they may get the fkt on the appalachian trail or something right, right, um, and they'll roll their eyes if we become an olympic sport. So, yeah, I mean, I guess if the question is like do it like getting paid too, that's a whole nother question, james, on like how that works.
Speaker 2:I think I mean I'm extremely grateful to get support from Nike. Um, I don't think and this like could be a hot take that I don't think it's a brand's responsibility, like a brand that started as a company to make shoes or apparel, to like pay athletes. Like that was never a part of, like the founding mission of any company. It was like, okay, we're going to start so that we can pay the athletes and like, yes, we do, we wear their gear and promote them, but without having a league like that's like funded by investors and like the world and not just people buying the shoes. I think it's. I think it's really hard to like to ask and to expect like we all get paid more and we're not getting paid enough when, like, there isn't an nfl, nba, nhl, mlb for for running dude.
Speaker 1:That's a really good take.
Speaker 1:And the only reason I say that is because I've always been like I I I mean historically on this podcast like I'm very pro, pro athlete, like I want athletes to make money and and because I just feel like athletes don't have a long life cycle in the sport and a lot of them come out of college and it's like, okay, you'll go through, you'll do the trail thing, and then people fall off and and that's it.
Speaker 1:Like it's, the people go do something else, right, you know, whatever they either went to college for or whatever, right, and I've always been such a proponent of like, whatever, which way you make it, make your money, make, hopefully athletes do well, and then, when it's over, that way you can have, like you'll see, you're seeing bigger contracts now with ultra and uh, like, for instance, with tara dower contracts like that, that's that said. On the contrary to that, I find that a really interesting like conversation, like do you think there's a space for that? Because, like for like an nfl, an nhl, a ufc, whatever in our sport, so that way athletes could could make more or have something like that. I know it's kind of a crazy take, I just have never thought about it that way yeah, I mean, or diamond league, so that's definitely possible.
Speaker 2:Like to do I think it's not something that could happen in like five years, cause the people who are in the sport now are so about the freedom and flexibility and requiring a co-located space for athletes is so tough because, like you're going to get Courtney, who lives in Leadville, to like train in park city or Boulder, it's like no, she wants to live in Leadville, uh, and like I don't think there's a dollar figure. I mean there probably is, but I mean with how it is like I don't run to make money. If I wanted to make money I wouldn't choose running Like no one's in it for the money, whereas like, if you're good at football, you go to the NFL. It's like, yeah, you're passionate, but like you're also like I'm gonna stick in it for the bag, you know, and it's like no one can do that. In running, no one's like I'm just in it for the money, it's like no one's busting their ass running 100 miles a week for the contract they get to do. So I guess what I'm saying is like the I'm okay.
Speaker 2:I think the sport is like we're privileged in the sense that, yes, we may not get paid a lot, like on average, but what we do get paid with is freedom, because, like I'm saying, if I might, if my knee hurts, I don't have to text anyone, whereas if you're in the NFL and your knee hurts, someone's showing up at your door carting you out to go watch practice and go watch film, whereas, like, we don't have to do that. There's, I mean, depending on your contract, like there's some race obligations, but it's it's pretty aligned with what you want to do, and so there's a really high value on that. And that's important to me right now, cause, like if someone was like like hey, here's a bunch of money, but like you have to live in this spot, you have to be away from your family, you have to train with this team, go to these races, wear this uniform, I'm like that sounds like the ncaa. Yeah, I didn't race well in that shit.
Speaker 1:So I'm good man. So freedom and the flexibility, I like it, I like it. No, I think you're right and I also think the sport needs the. The soul of that would kill the soul of the sport. I really do think some of the professionalization, professionalization of it kills the soul of the sport. Because the soul of the sport, like I think of, like you know, you remind me of, is like David Laney, early days of Nike Trail, like hanging out in his like little his van in the North Cascades, like I don't know why, but that's you. You remind me of that a little bit, but like that's what I think of when I think of the soul of the sport in some ways, like you know, and then he shows up to UTMB or whatever race and he races it and he has a great performance and then he goes back to training.
Speaker 2:It's like it's very free. Yeah, I mean there's some, there's some amazing people that in my life that have big visions for the sport that I align with and I'm like supportive of it, but I don't really know where it's going to go and wherever it does go, which is, you know, I can contribute to that vision, like I'm going to be there, um, hopefully still competing, um, for the next number of years, um, but I think there's enough like that soul, like the people who have the power to steer it, have that soul, and so I don't think it's going to get lost in translation with it's going to get lost in translation with whatever direction that that it goes Like, even if it does go to the Olympics, I think it'll be done in the right way, where it doesn't feel like we're checking a box or just putting in the Olympics to add another sport. I think that'll be. There'll be some, some beauty, some beauty in it, hopefully.
Speaker 1:The final question I have for you I ask a lot of pretty much most athletes this how does it, especially with you? You're an interesting one because you have your best performances when you have the pressure off a little bit. How do? How do you shape goals? Or how do you shape goals and how will you? How do you look at like a career in this, like in the longterm?
Speaker 2:Uh, that's a deep one man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you've been really good at these, so I'm like I'm just, I'm just, I haven't thought about it with like that filter on it per se.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, I'll say that I mean, and maybe this I'm being really honest and maybe some people think this and don't always say it but like my own legacy is important, like whether it's just me, like looking back at it, or like my parents or my partner, but like being able to look back when I'm retired and be like I fully sent it, like a have no regrets and like was genuinely happy during those times that I was sending it, like then I can fully rest in peace and so, like as a competitor, as a runner, there's always this like I want more that's happening, and so I kind of ride that line of like I want to go after more and and be like very goal oriented. But I've learned that you also have to like stop and look at the view and do that like more often than you think. Because if you're so tunnel visioned and you get to the end and it doesn't work out, then you're like what was the point of being tunnel visioned? Like if you at least looked at the view once and didn't work out, then you can be like I had one view and so I've gone the route of forecasting a little bit too much in the future and thinking like here's all the things I want to achieve in the next two years, and like forgetting all those little moments and if that goal doesn't work out, then it's like you can't redo those things. So I my I don't really have a three to five year plan in like in in those like very concrete, like written ways, um, but I am constantly evaluating, like just kind of, where I want to go in like that direction and like always like doing a micro pivot.
Speaker 2:Like on an espresso grinder you can like pivot it one degree to make it more coarse or more fine. It's like I'm always pivoting, like do I want it more fine or more coarse? And like the way I want that that shot to pull, you know. So, yeah, I mean I can sit here and be like I'm gonna do this in five years and I'm gonna be world champion, um, and of course I have those thoughts as a runner. It's like when you're like doing something sweet, you're like oh, oh, I'm, I'm going to win this these next five things. But yeah, I'm, I'm very content, like living in the present and doing things like making banana bread when you don't have AC in your house and it's 95 degrees outside.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, I appreciate for being candid. For being candid, man, I I I did throw you some deep ones. You know, kate told me. Kate prepared me a little bit. I talked to kate back in like june and he, he told me just like how good of a person you were and like just a very introspective, genuine human, and I was like all right, I'm gonna throw him some, I'm gonna throw him some, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get him thinking a little bit. So so this was, this was a good one. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Thanks for doing your research, man, and I'm glad we got to connect and, um yeah, man, what's, what's? Next for you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to a Cirque series grand target in two weeks, so I'm going back out to the Guy. Should be a fun one, hopefully have a race. It's a little bit closer to my potential there. And then, uh, I'm going up to your neck of the woods. In September I'll go do Cirque series crystals.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll be there dude, are you going to race? Oh, dude, we're going to hang out. All right, sweet, that's going to be a fun one. Um, first Cirque series race. It should be a good one. Um, and yeah, it's the only two I've got on my schedule right now. I'd like to put something a little bit longer on there, but I was thinking about the rut. But I don't really want to go run that 28 K. This is brutal.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that one's gnarly. I did that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a tough race. So, yeah, we'll say um so much for coming on the podcast. Honestly, like I was already a fan, I'm such a fan now really appreciate it and, uh, looking forward to spending some time with you in the future.
Speaker 2:So thanks, James I'll. I'll see you in a little over a month at crystal.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, buddy. Take care. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a great episode.
Speaker 1:Uh really want to thank Liam so much for coming on the podcast for a chat. Uh really appreciate him being so candid. We talked about a lot of really good stuff. Like you know, with professional athletes and especially you know some of the tip of the spear runners it's always fun to chat about things you know that you don't think about. In. You know, maybe trail running as professionals, right, we you know there's some of those questions around legacy and career and all these things. As the sport becomes more professionalized, it's such a strange thing to think about. But that's where we're at in the sport. So I really want to thank Liam for being candid and open and just talking about the way he views his career and what he thinks about you know the sport in general and what he wants from it. Um, guys, you could follow him on Instagram and you absolutely should. He's a great follow. You could find him at Liam runs. Uh, give him a follow, shoot him a DM, let him know what you thought about the episode. Send him some words of encouragement as he takes on the rest of his schedule in 2025 and what he plans for 2026. Yeah, send him a DM. All good stuff there.
Speaker 1:Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or YouTube and not just a five-star rating and review. If you like this podcast and if you think we bring you value, talk about it. You know, write a review in Apple. That would mean the world to me Kind of light on reviews. I would appreciate some more Good, bad or ugly. Just throw some reviews in there. I want to know what you guys are thinking. If you even like this damn thing, you know I want to continue to tell some great stories for some of these amazing athletes and it would mean the world to hear from you guys on the good, the bad, the bad and the ugly and what you think. So, yeah, that's all I got. I have a special announcement that I'm going to be dropping pretty soon. We're going to be doing a live podcast with Las Partiva at the Las Partiva group around September 11th with a special guest of honor. I'm going to put that out pretty soon so you guys will hear about who that is. And last but not least, most importantly, I want to thank Ultimate Direction UD for sponsoring this podcast and being an amazing brand partner.
Speaker 1:If you guys haven't already, if you're in the market for a belt or a vest or any type of hydration solution, pop on over to ultimate directioncom. Use code steep stuff pod. That's one word steep stuff pod at checkout for 25% off your cart. Yeah, that's all I got for you guys Really appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks so much, people. What's going on? It is summer guys, super exciting adventures in the mountains, summer races Um, you know, it's about that time to start thinking about your gear. You know, I, uh, I want to say our brand partner, ultimate directions, got you guys covered. Pop on over to ultimate directioncom.
Speaker 1:Check out a whole quiver of a quiver and, uh, new vests and belts that have just dropped. Um. Pop on over to check out the new race and ultra vests race vests in a six liter, the ultra vest and a 12 and beautiful new aesthetic colorways Um, definitely dynamic and stretchy, cool new materials Um, and definitely something that can, uh, definitely buff out your, uh, your kit for 2025. On top of that, we did just drop a brand new pole quiver that's compatible for all of these vests. Um, definitely something you're going to want to add.
Speaker 1:And if you're not a vest person, pop on over to the belt section. You can check out the utility belt and the comfort belt. The utility belt is a little bit more of an ultra belt more storage capacity, a little bit thicker, um and ability to hold poles. The comfort belt's a little bit smaller Think sub ultra or workout maybe oriented belt that's going to hold your gels and your phone. Um, still super durable, but just a little bit tinier for those, uh, smaller adventures or maybe shorter races like a Cirque series race or something like that in the mountains. So pop on over to ultimate directioncom. They have you covered for all your hydration solutions. Use code steep stuff pod for 25% off. Again, that's steep stuff pod one word for 25% off. Ultimate directions got you covered and if you have any questions, shoot me a DM, let me know. I'd be happy to answer any product related questions for you guys. So thanks so much. Check out ultimate direction. Thank you, I'm out.
