The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#115 - Michael Earnhart
Bronze medal Nordic skier Michael Earnhart opens up about the fascinating overlap between skiing and trail running, revealing why skiers consistently dominate mountain races despite minimal running-specific training. His journey from a young Alaskan runner to Olympic-level Nordic skier provides a unique window into the physiological and methodological advantages that transfer between sports.
The secret lies in the structured, periodized training approach that Nordic skiers follow religiously. While runners might log impressive mileage, skiers focus on heart rate zones, threshold training, and extensive time under tension that builds tremendous leg strength. "We just have these massive engines," Earnhardt explains, describing how their cardiovascular development allows them to power up mountains with relative ease. Their training involves 4-5 hour sessions on snow, creating adaptations that perfectly translate to steep mountain terrain.
Earnhart shares his experiences at iconic races like Mount Marathon and Cirque Series Alyaska, where he placed third behind professional mountain runners despite focusing primarily on his skiing career. The significance of these races extends beyond competition—Mount Marathon serves as his showcase to the Alaskan community that might not follow his international skiing accomplishments. His training at Alaska's glacier facility offers a glimpse into the specialized preparation that elite Nordic skiers undertake, skiing on snow even during summer months.
The conversation reveals fascinating insights about the future of both sports, with Earnhardt suggesting he might transition to professional trail running after his Nordic skiing career concludes. With his massive aerobic engine already built through years of skiing, he'd only need to develop more running-specific strength to compete at the highest levels. His journey represents the evolving intersection between endurance sports, where cross-pollination of training methodologies continues to raise the competitive bar.
Subscribe now to hear more conversations with elite athletes who are redefining what's possible in mountain endurance sports. Follow Michael on Instagram @m.earnhart to keep up with his skiing and running adventures through the Alaskan wilderness.
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What's up everybody? Welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode today with none other than Michael Earnhardt. This one's a little bit different. I'm super excited because Michael's first sport is not trail running.
Speaker 1:I struck a conversation with Michael about a month removed from his third place finish at Cirque series Alyaska. If you guys do know that name, you probably know him first and foremost as a Nordic skier. Michael was most notably known for his 2022 bronze medal finish at the men's relay in the junior world championships for Nordic skiing. So he competes for the U S Nordic skiing team. Guys kid is a absolute beast, total stud, someone I was excited to have on the podcast. We talked a lot about training. Most notably, I just peaked. It just piqued my curiosity because I wanted to learn more about how Nordic skiers train and it just about how, when, why that crosses over so well to the trail running world, why you've seen athletes such as Sam Hendry, sophia Lockley and so many others come into the scene and absolutely dominate. So great conversation, really appreciative for Michael and his ability to come on and talk about his training and what he's been up to and talk about. You know some of the races that he's done and what makes them so special. So, without further ado, hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1:None other than Michael Earnhardt, it's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live really solid finishes about marathon. You're kind of very, you know, pretty, very well known. Obviously you know, on the ski side as well as kind of the running side. Um, as well as Cirque series, I asked. I was like I've got to have this kid on the podcast. It'd be definitely worth a solid conversation. So I'm glad we were able to do this. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, you know, thanks for having me uh love to talk about racing and training.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure, yeah, dude. So as we get started, maybe give me, like the, give me the five minute elevator pitch. Talk about, kind of your main modalities of training and skiing, things like that. Uh, maybe talk about how you kind of got into the sport where you're from, things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, lifelong Alaskan, uh, anchorage, alaska, you know the big city basically up here Um, and originally got into skiing kind of in middle school because that's what all the fast runners were doing, um, and I was pretty into running at the time, uh, but then about my freshman year of high school I got pretty good at skiing and made junior nationals for the first time. It was competitive there, um, and that kind of started to change the direction of like which athletic was the top priority in in my life. Um, because then the following year I made my first international trip for skiing and that kind of sold me then, uh, because running just I mean I guess it's just a lot more competitive in the country and like, I was good in alaska, but good in alaska didn't always translate to kind of good in the nation and didn't really open up the same opportunities. You know, going to estonia as a sophomore in high school kind of makes you want to ski more than run, I guess. So, um, I still, like you know, I love running, for sure, and I love doing the trail races in the summer, um, but yeah, skiing is the number one priority and I basically structure everything around that.
Speaker 2:Um, and then running is a pretty good byproduct from that and so I can do pretty well in the summer running races, um, but I really don't like do anything too different to like from other skiers to prioritize those races or anything. It just um, it works out well with the way we train um. You know, we do a lot of roller skiing in the summer, a little bit of running, um, and then, like this summer, we got our glacier facility back, so we've gone up to the glacier and skied on snow a couple times this year and in the winter we run maybe 10 miles a week and it's like 30-minute jogs that are like 10 minutes per mile or slower. But yeah, it all works out, I guess. I mean it's good enough to get me on a podcast.
Speaker 1:Dude, talk about that glacier facility. I can't remember if I was Googling you or if I was lurking your Instagram, but I saw a video of that glacier facility and that place is dope. Talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's pretty incredible because normally, you know, especially in the US, it feels like cross-country skiing is a really small sport that not many people care about. But you know, up here in Alaska the community is strong and I mean somehow we have this just incredible facility up on the glacier and kind of through a partnership with the government a little bit, um, you know, the land is leased from them and they've given us a lot of grants in order to build the facility. Um, but yeah, I mean it just makes a big difference to be able to train on snow in the summer, because in the winter, um, you know, we just don't train that much cause you're so busy racing. And so having these weeks in the summer where we can go up there and just ski four or five hours a day in a variety of conditions, like the skill building is huge. Because that's a big difference with skiing from other endurance sports is that there is a big technical aspect of it, you know, based on the snow conditions and then also skate versus classic, and yeah, there's just kind of a lot of nuance.
Speaker 2:So be able to just really get those k's on snow and just so much time, it makes a big difference and the facility, um, just got upgraded. It was out of commission the last like four or five years because of a. An earthquake kind of destroyed the old building but yeah, now we got a new one. So it's our first year kind of breaking that in and everything was shiny and yeah, it was really sweet how much time can you spend?
Speaker 1:because I saw they had like living quarters in there. Do you just like spend like weeks on end living up there or like how does that work?
Speaker 2:oh, we just do a week at a time, like kind of the way we train normally is like three weeks on, one week off kind of, and so we would do two weeks on in town kind of dry land training. Then we would do one week up on the and then we'd have a recovery week where we kind of step back. And you know, we still train a bit but we don't kind of like meet for practice as much. A lot more flexible, like you know, go fishing or something you know, get out and about kind of a mental reset.
Speaker 1:So interesting, all right, so I'm not going to hide it. I really want to get into. The first thing we got to talk about is training, just because I think one of the interesting things for me is you see, your Sam Hendry's of the world, david Norris, quite a few people you probably know come into the trail world and absolutely dominate. It is, and I think a lot of it has to do with the type of training you guys do. You might not run a ton, like you said, maybe 10 miles a week, something like that, but when you guys show up to race you always dominate and I think it's everything has to do with the way you guys train and how it's more hours based. Obviously there's a lot of intensity and threshold. Can you talk about why it transfers so well, like what? How do you stack your training and how does training like work for you in the ski world and why do you think that translates so well to trail running?
Speaker 2:Yeah, part of it, I think, is just like the trail running is a much um kind of slower sport compared to road running or track running like, which is a much more specific strength, like very, you know, speed based, and we don't do very much speed work at all, but we do a lot of kind of slower motions and a lot of time under tension in the legs, like I mean skiing is it uses your legs a ton right, so it does make us very strong on those uphills and then just builds a huge cardiovascular base. I mean, historically, cross-country skiers, you know, have always had some of the highest VO2 maxes, like going back to Bjorn Dali and such, and so we just have these massive engines and then you kind of have to just build a little bit of specific running strength. Um, I mean some people, especially the same injuries, sophia lock, we's like you're mentioning like they do a bit more running specific, and then it it's able to translate quite well and I mean, I don't know for sure, like I don't know any really, I don't know many like kind of pure trail running athletes, but my impression is certainly that trail running is kind of a much newer sport and like the kind of the periodized and more scientific training hasn't really hit the sport as much, and so I think you see a lot of people, um, kind of going out every day and just kind of going hard, like if they feel good, they go hard. You know, they don't have as structured of training and so it's really nice coming from the ski background. Like I mean, the training is incredibly structured.
Speaker 2:You have very clear, you know levels that you should be in on different days, and then that translates well than just having these different gears on race day, um, and I think that doesn't always happen in trail running but as a sport, I mean because the sport has really been taken off in the last couple decades. So I think that's kind of coming that way and it'll be interesting to see how, you know, skiers are still able to take the top spots as, like, people become more, um, trail specific athletes because also, like you know, kind of the more premier running sport is generally more track or marathons or something. So if you start taking some of those top athletes and maybe they want to go specifically for trail, that might change things a lot. I mean, who knows?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean the big two is really it's skiers and then steeplechasers. It seems like steeplechasers also do extremely well and that's obviously a different conversation. But you guys, for some reason it's very interesting to me the heart rate, heart, heart rate based training, do you do? You don't go off a field, do you? Is it all? Basically what zones I need to hit and basically training within those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it kind of becomes the same thing Like when you train off heart rate enough. You kind of just figure out what it feels like Um. So like a lot of days I don't wear a heart rate monitor because I just kind of know my body well enough, certainly for like level one type things. And then you know when you're trying to hit threshold it's like OK, is that? Am I clearing the lactate as I go or not? You know it's kind of so you can, definitely you can still go. I feel quite a bit, but it is like you're feeling for a zone and not just like I feel like I want to go faster. But it is like you're feeling for a zone and not just like I feel like I want to go faster. You know, sometimes you feel like you want to go faster but you're still going to stay on that slower track or whatever.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Interesting and so how does? All right. So you kind of alluded to, okay, mountain running in the summer. That's kind of how it fits into your calendar. It's just basically fitness building for you and all for a means to an end for skiing. But races like cirque series, aliasca, races like mount marathon are those, I would assume, because they're race-based. That's all just workout for you, would you treat? Do you treat? Is that how you treat it?
Speaker 2:as a workout, or like a hard intensity effort or no, I mean, I like, I'm for sure I'm doing the race because I want to race like, and I really enjoy, you know, especially mount marathon in front of all the people and stuff, and, like you know, I grew up loving running.
Speaker 2:It's definitely like we're we're doing the races to have fun and, you know, do the whole race um and everything, but it does, you know, it counts as a hard session for sure, like, well, um, that is. You know, we don't change the training much until you get to that week of the race, like we normally do two or three intensity sessions a week and one of those will be switched to be the race. Basically, you know, and it will be the level for the harder session will end up being just like a race effort on a mountain and it is unique in Alaska to the steeper races work a lot better for us skiers because you really you need even less of that specific running strength. Like you know, mountain marathon includes a lot of hiking and that is where, like, the skiing muscles really translate well. Like you know, mountain marathon includes a lot of hiking and that is where, like, the skiing muscles really translate well, like, you don't need to do much um actual footwork to get that kind of under your belt interesting.
Speaker 1:Do you spend a lot of time in the gym like, do you guys lift a ton?
Speaker 2:um, not a ton. I mean, we typically lift about two days a week, um, and that can kind of it's a pretty big variety like it is mostly kind of a more injury prevention type of lifting, although, um, we do like try to build some power for sure and do some heavier lifting and, um, yeah, I mean it kind of changes a bit throughout the year, but it, you know, it's not a big priority for us, you know, certainly not like a team sport, like a football team or something like that, but it is, um, it is in the training plan for sure, and we all hit it on a regular basis. So interesting.
Speaker 1:How do you like training with the team? Like you said when you mentioned, like you talk about we all and like a group is like a big group of guys and girls, like how big is this group and what's it like being on a team?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean I'm quite lucky to be here in alaska training with the apu team. It is, I mean, the best team in the country by the numbers Like we make up, you know, generally like half the US ski team and things like that, and it is, I mean I couldn't do it without a team. I don't know how people there are. You know there's people that train solo every session and I just don't get it.
Speaker 2:Personally, you know it is great to be able to have people to get out and, just, you know, get the hours in with, especially just all the easy sessions.
Speaker 2:Like I think intensity is one thing when you have a little more focused goal and you're kind of doing shorter times. But just you know the everyday, like you got to get out and go for a couple hours. Like that is really nice to have people to go with and talk to and kind of and then learn from too. Just you know, again, with the skiing, like it's a lot more of a technical sport. So being able to ski behind someone who's faster than you or they don't even have to be fast even but like skiing behind someone to kind of learn something from them, I think I mean working with a team is phenomenal and it keeps your goals a little more clear. You're like you go to training and you're like this is where I need to be. You know I need to be able to ski with this person this winter or whatever, so it's. I mean, it's great to have a team, for sure or whatever so it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's great to have a team, for sure. How does the competition season work for you guys, like what? Like obviously I would imagine it's based on around the season. It's all winter based, but like how many competitions, just because I feel like from skiing you can recover a little bit faster. Like how many competitions are you doing, uh, in in your season?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it can be a big range, but I would say we typically race 25 to 40 times a winter. Um 40s at the very high end, like someone doing the full world cup season would be more along the 40 lines um, and then someone that's staying more domestic uh might be more like 25, but and yeah, I mean you can race two or three times. Uh, most weekends or the racing blocks will normally be especially on the world cup. Um, the us is normally just kind of like a little bit less racing than world cup, but world cup will be um three weeks of three races every weekend and then like a week or two break and it'll be that kind of four times throughout the winter. Um, and yeah, you like it's definitely without the high impact of running. You know like you can race more for sure and skiing, but it's still. You know the fatigue adds up and you know you got to drop the training volume to reflect that. But yeah, a number of efforts throughout the year and yeah, how do you like that?
Speaker 1:How do you like as far as like traveling to race and do it Like, do you do you? Absolutely love this.
Speaker 2:I mean just like the actual traveling part, as is not that fun really, because you know you just kind of like travel to a hotel room or an Airbnb and sit around because you know you got to stay rested for the races.
Speaker 2:So you don't like I've been to a lot of places but I feel like I haven't really seen them that much, you know, when you're there for a race trip. But it is quite cool to kind of race all sorts of different places and just in general, I think it's really nice to race that many times. Um like, if you have a bad race it's like all right, like I get to wait two weeks and then you know I can do better. Maybe it's just you have a bad race on Friday and then you can have a good race on Saturday. You know there's a a lot of opportunities, which is nice I feel. You know it's tough with running. Like I do three or four running races a summer and so it's easy to be pretty disappointed about the entire summer of running because I wasn't good on my three days, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's yeah, I get that. I get that. Dude, what is the goal for you? Is it to, like, make an olympic team, like what? Like how do you count these goals? Like, how does it work for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, mean I try to look more at the smaller goals normally of just kind of like trying to get better every day, cause I think it's a little daunting to just look at the big goal. But I mean certainly, like I just want to be the best skier I can be and I hope that means I make the Olympics and that I do well at the Olympics, you know, or do well on the world cup, like I mean I I just get on the start line and I I want to beat everyone, kind of. You know, it's just just about being competitive and we'll see how far that takes me how does that process work?
Speaker 1:because I I understand schemo pretty well. I have a lot of friends on the schemo team trying to make, I guess, bidding, going through the world cup process, bidding and then fighting against canada to try to get, I guess, from the schemo situation. How does it work for nordic? Is it a similar process where it's North American based and then it'll either be Canada, usa or Mexico? How does it work for the USA to get in or, I guess, go to the Olympics and stuff like that on Nordic skiing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you just look at the paperwork it's kind of a complicated qualifying process. But the the shorts version of the story is you want to ski world cup and do well on the world cup and that'll get you to the olympics um. And it's tough, you know, because it's not, you know, it's not a very big team, right, you can only start like four people per race um and then the total team has has to be under seven or eight people um for each gender. So it's not, I mean, there's not a ton of spots. So basically in the World Cup on a normal day, you get seven or eight starts. So basically the Olympic team will come from the World Cup.
Speaker 2:So then the goal is to basically qualify for the World Cup, which you qualify for that either from, you know, previous world cup races or if you're on the domestic side of things like I'm starting this year domestically um, if you're the overall kind of tour leader from the the domestic circuit um, from one of the periods, then you get the world cup starts for the next period.
Speaker 2:So basically the goal, you know, right now for me is to beat all the other people who are going to be racing uh the north america circuit um in december and be the overall kind of leader there so that I can go to the world cup and give myself a chance, um. Otherwise, there's there are like kind of some stipulations for qualifying from the us if the team is not filled from the world cup. But uh, we're at a point for our nation, like, where we're competitive enough that probably the whole team will filled from the world cup. But uh, we're at a point for our nation, like, where we're competitive enough that probably the whole team will come from the world cup. Um, but yeah, the actual like the kind of details of how that qualifying work is a little messy. But you know, long story short, gotta make the world cup and do well over there interesting yo, how do we?
Speaker 1:how do, how do us americans stack up against the euros, are we oh?
Speaker 2:we're getting a lot better. Um, certainly like, and it kind of comes in waves, like our women's team is pretty, is quite strong right now, for sure. I mean you know Jesse Diggins won the overall world cup last year, um, and we've got some other great skiers on the team and then our men's team like we're really kind of it's a new generation coming through. That's really kind of stepping things up from the previous generation. Like you know, gus Schumacher just is our incredible athlete, who won his first world cup, not this past season but the year before and then this last year you know top 10 multiple times got on the podium and you know Ben Ogden kind of same story starting to get all those top tens and podiums and like, yeah, we got a lot more guys that are getting that are like kind of every race top 30 and then sometimes doing you know top 15s, because it used to be like when I was in high school it was kind of more like it was a good day for the men when someone was in the top 30, just one person.
Speaker 2:But now I mean we've got you know at least three people kind of every day in the top 30, just one person. But now I mean we've got, you know, at least three people kind of every day in the top 30. So, yeah, we're getting a lot better, but it is a lot of those. You know, the Norwegians especially, are just absolutely dominating the men's field right now. But I mean, you know, as people like Gus and Ben and JC have shown, like we are totally capable of being up there, so it's I think this generation coming through now is going to be quite special, because I mean, we're talking about, uh, like gus, ben and jc are 25 years old, so we got a lot more years of them and they're already this good.
Speaker 1:So wow, that's so interesting, dude. At what point in time did you realize like you could make a go at this like career wise, like did you decide, while you were kind of finishing high school, that you're like man I, I want to do this professionally, or yeah, I'm not sure when that exactly came.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it probably came the year after high school. Like you know, originally in high school I was, like you know, skiing's cool, it's taking me to a couple cool places, but, um, I was definitely thinking I was just going to use it to kind of ski in college somewhere, you know like it, you know, I don't know it could it would be fun to ski on an NCAA team and get some scholarship whatever. Like that was kind of the plan originally. But then, um, I think just kind of I think watching this generation of guys like start doing better on the international stage kind of changed it for me a bit, because I think that was part of it.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't, like, you know, when thinking the ceiling was like 35th place on the world cup or something that didn't really inspire me to want to like compete at the highest level. But now seeing that like there's, you know I, we have people that can get top tens and top fives and all that, I'm like, okay, you know, then I want to give it a shot and see if I can be one of those people. Like it seems much more possible now. So, yeah, I think kind of after high school when I started watching these guys really take off on the World Cup. It was when I decided wait a second, like I'm pretty good, like I want to really actually give this a shot.
Speaker 1:Let's talk professionalization. Like how dialed are you guys Like? Is it like you watch everything you eat? Are you super careful about diet? Do you guys do the sports psych thing? Cause I see a lot of trail runners in the professional space that are like work with dietitians. Do you know they're working with, uh, mental coaches?
Speaker 2:They're doing the whole, the whole game. Do you guys do that too? Like whatiencies in our diet? Basically A lot of people, it's vitamin D and iron and those standard things and things like that, but not I mean other than that there's no dieting, like I mean it is just so hard to eat enough food to continue to fuel our bodies. That it's like I mean a lot of us just go through tons of sweets and cookies and ice cream, whatever. Like I mean it just takes so many carbs to keep the body going. You know it's not. We're definitely we're not concerned about like calories or hitting weight, because I mean, to be quite honest, it's just really hard to gain weight. I mean I I never think about what I eat. I eat like you know, you kind of look at it and think, oh, this is a horrible diet maybe, um, but I just continue to stay like really skinny basically, um, so definitely, like diet is not really a concern and other than just making sure you eat enough, because it is so hard to stay um, healthy year round if you're not eating enough. And you know you gotta especially in skiing, you need a little more power, you gotta be stronger, you gotta be a little bigger.
Speaker 2:Uh, but then sports psych, for sure, a lot of people use sports psych um, especially through the us ski team. They have a couple um uh, sports psych and you know some people go out of the team if they want, but yeah, that's definitely a big part. Um, I would say on the us ski team, like probably 90 of people use a sports psych, you know. Beyond that, I think it's very few people maybe use it just because it's not um, it's maybe not as normalized yet, I guess, and the resources aren't as obvious like on the us ski team. They're very clear, like here's our sports psych, like please contact them, whereas I think if you're just on a college team or a club team, like you know, apu doesn't have a sports psych on hand. So that would mean you got to go through your own insurance and look for you know someone in town or whatever. Um, but yeah, I think everyone's very open to it and a lot of people do it for sure.
Speaker 1:I think there's something to it and the reason I bring that up is because I've been listening to listen to a couple podcasts lately. But like these are different types of athletes that use them and just to get that like extra little mental unlock, I was like huh, you know, if you have like anxiety on a race day or just something, I feel like everybody obviously goes to a start line nervous, like if you're not nervous on the start line like you know, I feel like everybody is. But just to get that like one or maybe even half to 1% of like, just, I don't know, just getting that unlock might like helps a ton, I don't know. So something I've been thinking about a lot lately. It's interesting stuff, yeah for sure. Let me ask you this week.
Speaker 2:Where are you? Are you competing again, running wise? That the this more for any like kind of big mountain races. Um, I had looked at previously kind of going down to the lower 48 for a cirque series race um did we love one that uh, linked up with a uh.
Speaker 2:Uh, we have a camp in october down in park city, but nothing was. The timing didn't quite work out, so I'm just sticking with this for now. Um, and it's like those running races are kind of they're fun, but with the downhills it is pretty hard on the body, like the recovery window is pretty long. So this time of year it's kind of like, uh, it's time to really start focusing on skiing, maybe. Um, so I don't normally do more than four running races in a summer. That's kind of the magic number, and two of those are uphill only.
Speaker 1:So interesting dude. Let's let's talk about marathon. I feel like this has got to be a special race for you. You've done this a bunch as high as fourth place and this past year you were 12th at Mount marathon. Like you're so consistent at this race, what does it mean to you? Like, how special of a race is Mount marathon for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Mount marathon is funny because because it is, it kind of doesn't matter what I do in skiing. A little bit like people around town they know about Mount Marathon, they don't know about, you know, some random ski result from the other side of the country or the World Cup or something like that. Like that is just that's the biggest race in Alaska. I mean that's the best way to put it. You know, everyone kind of sees it. So it's definitely that's kind of the best opportunity for me to showcase what I've been doing with my life, kind of in terms of, like, fitness and all that um, and so it's just, yeah, it's fun to go down there and like you see so many friends that you haven't seen in years or whatever that or that you only see down there.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's just a really big community, um, and, like I said, like it's it's a pretty unique race with how steep it is, so it works well with the skiing. So it's always been popular in Alaska, obviously, but then it's been getting a lot more popular across the nation. You see more and more competitive runners come up for it and really increase the depth of the field, which is really cool to see, because a lot of the mountain races are not the most competitive. They they're just like not super deep fields. But yeah, getting these like really deep fields is really cool and like to actually kind of see how you stack up against people outside of alaska as well is quite fun, um. So yeah, I mean it's one of my favorite events, you know, to spend july 4th down in Seward and just have a good fun time.
Speaker 1:That's what's funny, dude. That's one of the ways I knew your name was from the Mount Marathon live stream, them talking about you. So when I saw you win, or sorry, get on the podium of Cirque Series Alyaska, I was like damn, I know that name from somewhere. Sure as shit, that's what it was from was the uh, you know, mount marathon live stream, which is cool. Uh, dude, are you just gonna keep coming back till you get on the podium or win, like what's the? What's the plan for this one?
Speaker 2:I mean, you're so damn close like it's gotta happen one of these years yeah, I know, I mean it's definitely um, I mean I'll probably keep doing it just about every year. I don't really see why I would stop ever. Um, it's hard to imagine a world where that happens. And it definitely I feel a little bit stronger on races with some downhill. I think that's part of the reason Cirque went well. I was sixth to the top but then third at the bottom, so mountain marathon doesn't quite have as long of a downhill Cirque, but it definitely still helps me. I can move up some spots normally there. So yeah, I mean I keep hoping things go right.
Speaker 2:This year just didn't seem to be in my best shape because I definitely had much better uphills in Bird Ridge and Cirque. But that's just kind of how it goes sometimes. I mean the year that I was fourth there was a lot colder and muddy and I think kind of those conditions maybe worked a little better for me. But yeah, I think this year I could have um ran a little more, um, a couple of sessions I could have switched from roller skiing to running and that might've helped, or a little more uh, kind of hiking specific things. But yeah, I mean it's kind of you know, it's fine margins with sport right like you can. If you're off by two percent, that kind of that makes a big difference on race day. So I don't know, but it's still so fun. Like I'm not really that upset about being 12th, you know I'd love to be. I wouldn't care, it's all good yeah it's still dope as shit.
Speaker 1:dude, it's still awesome. Uh, let's talk aliaska, because that's another. What an amazing course I I was supposed to go up this year and I had a small injury so didn't want it making the trip and I was really bummed. So next year I'll be going there to race. That is gotta be one of that's probably top five, maybe top three best courses in North America in in in its entirety, like so iconic, so beautiful. Um, how did that race go for you? Cause it's obviously pretty cool, like to get on a podium next to Noah Williams, who's going to compete at Worlds, and then Jackson Cole is one of the best mountain runners on the planet, who's also going to compete at Worlds. Was that a little weird or was that normal? How did that competition roll for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it was kind of weird going into it because I was a little disappointed with 12th at Mountain Marathon. I was kind of like I, I guess I kind of, you know, messed up the training this year, maybe not in the best shape, and then I signed up for Cirque but I was kind of feeling like, oh, why did I sign up? Like you know, this isn't going to go well. I'm not in that you know good place, for it's such a cool idea to run up, um, these ski resorts. You know, like I mean, because it's like that, that's alieska, you know that's a resort we've all been skiing since we were, since we were kids, you know, in elementary school, and yeah, so it's pretty iconic to go up that and it's just a crazy course. Like I'm kind of surprised they actually have a race on it. To be honest, going up center ridge is so steep and technical and, uh, you know they have like 700 runners out there like trying to climb up this thing, which seems just ridiculous to me. But I mean people seem to love it. Um, and I know there's like some big backups kind of later back in the mid pack, like people kind of get uh bunched up there.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean I just uh, just, uh, tried to run as much as I could in the first part of it. It's, you know, going up the cat tracks and the bike trails are a lot flatter, so tried to keep their running uh mode going until I got to center ridge was real steep and got more into a hike. Um, and when I got to center ridge which is about halfway time wise maybe, and I was still, I think I was in fifth or sixth at the time and could see third place I felt like, hey, I might have a pretty good race today. Um, and I got to the top and kind of looked at my watch and I was about a minute off of third place and that's when I knew I could get third place, because I feel pretty good about my downhills normally. Um, so yeah, running across the ridge started making up ground pretty quick and yeah, it's a fun course like you get.
Speaker 2:You see so many different types of terrain, especially on that downhill I mean it is a really long downhill but good variety, especially this year like there's some glissading on a great snow patch, which is really nice actually. Um, and then you get kind of lower down into some loamy trails, which are probably my favorite part, and then you finish on that. Just horrible two minutes of cat track, um, actually like running down. That just does not feel good. But you know, by then thankfully I was kind of in my position and no one was too close to me, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, amazing, amazing result and just so cool. I got to ask you this man like with skiing and seeing so much success in like from skiers that transition into trail running, is there a chance like you like at some point in time in your career, like transition to to trail running like or mountain running, because you could be extremely successful at it? I mean sofia, there's so many yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's kind of always been my thought a bit um, was that I'd go all in on skiing for a while and then, whenever I'm done with that which I really I mean I don't know if that means one year, 10 years, whatever but whenever I'm done with skiing that I would switch to running, because it isn't um, you know, don't need the fast twitch like skiing has, you know, down to a two and a half minute race. So I need a lot more fast twitch for that. But then I can just build a motor for, you know, a decade or two and then switch over to running and get some of that specific strength, and I feel like it can still work out quite well. So I definitely, I think, when I'm done with skiing I won't be done with professional athletics yet, you know, I'll definitely try out some trail running for a while, um, and maybe, you know, maybe golden trail world series or kind of whatever. Whatever the option is at the point that I'm done with skiing, which I really don't know when that will be. So interesting.
Speaker 1:So you know about golden trail then.
Speaker 2:So you know the sport, okay, interesting yeah, I mean I know about it because of sophia, to be honest, I mean that she certainly put it on my radar.
Speaker 1:Cool man. No, I'm listening. The reason I bring it up is because, like, obviously you have the talent level to be able to compete with some of the best in the sport. So you're already there. So you never know, dude, there could be a serious future for you. Is there any races that you've seen? I know a lot of Alaskans go down to the rut in Montana. Scott Patterson's had success there, denali Strabel's had success there. Is there any courses, in particular in the lower 48, that stick out for you that you'd be interested in doing?
Speaker 2:courses in particular in the lower 48 that stick out for you, that you'd be interested in doing? Uh, nothing in particular, I feel like, because normally when I see pictures or videos of the races in lower 48, they look really hard to me in terms of being hot, dry and at altitude, and those are some of my least favorite things, for sure, but a race that stands out like um, but the golden trail world series a couple years ago had a pretty technical one in Norway and I remember the footage of that one being like kind of foggy and rainy and that seems a lot more up my alley. Um, I think I'm definitely better in kind of colder conditions. Um, you know, I mean, everyone gets hot, I guess, but I, I don't know, I haven't had a good mountain marathon when it's sunny. I have a good ones when it rains.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, I'm trying to do something technical. Um, yeah, technical and a little wet and hopefully not at altitude. But I don't know, I'm always trying to get better at altitude because we have a lot of races at altitude for skiing as well. So maybe, maybe those thoughts will change, but right now I definitely. I look at the rut and I I don't know how well I would do it something like that right now They'd have to snow.
Speaker 1:I mean, last year it snowed, so it could be. I don't know, it's a trade-off snow or altitude, I feel it. Do you guys do like altitude camps before races at altitude, or like what do you do to prep for that?
Speaker 2:We'll just try to go down like more than, or at least five days ahead of altitude, for sure if it's just with the club team, um, but then the us ski team, like you know, quite often championships, like olympics, are at altitude um, and so they'll generally do like a two-week altitude camp kind of pre-championship, um, that's definitely thought about a lot, and like, we always do a fall altitude camp in park city, um, and then the glacier facility is actually at 5 700 feet, so that's a bit of an altitude camp, although it's only one week long. So it's not, um, not the most significant maybe, but it's still good to kind of practice that um, adoption feeling, um, so, yeah, like it's definitely something we think about, um, but we I don't really know of anyone in the ski community that does any like sleeping, uh, in an altitude chamber. You know, not quite on the Grant Fisher plan yet, but who knows, maybe it's coming to the sport.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. You know it's also a trade off man. I talked to a lot of athletes about this where I almost feel like you benefit being at sea level from not just a recovery perspective but your power generation versus being at high altitude. This is why, like it always makes me scratch my head. Like there's athletes like Cam Smith who's a schema athlete and hopefully going to be an Olympian this year and he lives at like 9,000 feet. I'm like how the hell do you generate that much power, you know for schema and things like that and living that high? And I know, like Noah Williams is another one who you raced at um Eliasca. He lives at 10,000 feet at Leadville and I just always think about the trade-offs, whereas, like you can just generate so much power at sea level versus high altitude that I feel like I don't know it's almost an advantage to be at sea level versus altitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely don't regret like living full time at sea level and especially in skiing, like generating that power is quite important. Um, you know, with our sprint races can be down to two and a half minutes and you know part of that is downhill, like. So there is really true, like all-out power generation that needs to happen. And you know, in trail running that's not really the case that you, you don't need quite as much kind of peak power. So you know, maybe that sport is a little more, um, you know, does a little better with kind of living at altitude and training at altitude full-time especially. You know, you kind of got to look at the distribution of races too, I guess, just like whatever races you're trying to hit, like where those are going to be at, um, because you know it can kind of change a lot from sport to sport or year to year, like where championships are. So, yeah, I mean there's advantages to both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting all right, let's get off sport. I gotta talk to you about alaska, dude. Well, how do you like, do you love living there? I just the grizzly bears freak me out like you got polar bears way up north. Everything wants to kill you, it seems like. How is it like growing up in an area or a state that's just so wild and so unique?
Speaker 2:I mean it's, it's awesome, like, obviously I'm hooked. You know I ended up not leaving the state for school and I don't think I'm going to leave the state beyond this other than you know, maybe in grad school and go down temporarily, but this, you know, it's always home. I'm going to live here forever, for sure. And yeah, I mean I guess there's things in the woods that are dangerous, for sure, but you don't really hear about like, uh, many kids or anything like kind of getting mauled by bears, anything like there's maybe one bear mauling a year across the state, maybe on average, um, but you don't. I guess you know you never heard of it being like your friend in high school or something. It was.
Speaker 2:Normally it's a pretty rare situation maybe, um, but you, you know you come close to moose and you come close to black bears all the time, grizzly bears. You don't see that often their population density is a lot lower, especially like around anchorage, um, so I, you know you just get used to it. I guess, like you all grow up with your own dangerous, you know, because I mean when I go out east in the summer, like I get just deathly afraid of ticks like those so scary to me, you can't see them. You know I can see a bear or moose or whatever. I can't see a tick really, um, you know. Or like snakes, like so many people are scared of snakes, I mean I don't really want to see snakes. So, yeah, you just get used to all those dangers, I feel like, because, yeah to us, like I mean we see moose so regularly.
Speaker 1:It's just they're just moose, you know yeah, yeah, the moose don't bother me as much. It's funny. I I live in colorado and I I do. I ran up on a black bear at like on a lunch run the other day. I got really fucking close to it.
Speaker 1:That was like the end dude um, but like he was interested in me, he was big bear, it was like 200 pounds, but I just couldn't imagine running up on a grizzly like that. That's that's a little too big for me, like that's too too big and too close. Do you ever like see them in the anchorage area or no, they're just like not. There's not that many of them you do see them for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, this summer's actually been a pretty bad summer for grizzly bears. Um, like, killed a couple moose on some local trails and, uh, mauled one person, I think, but they, um, they weren't in life threatening. Um, I ran into a mama with a couple cubs but, like, honestly, like I don't see, like I don't run into grizzly bears, like out running every year.
Speaker 2:Like it's you know, maybe every other year I'll have one incident and it is, you know, incredibly scary when you do, but it's pretty like rare that it happens and normally, you know, you stick you just back away, away, make yourself big, kind of let the bear know you're there and like you'll be alright. Because really I've only had two Scary encounters with grizzly bears in my whole life, running up here probably, yeah, I think just two with grizzly bears and, like you know, we've been charged by moose a couple times. Like I'd say moose are honestly more of a concern because you see him so often, you get um, you just get too used to him and then when they suddenly decide to not be friendly, it kind of can be an issue, um, but yeah, I mean like, yeah, obviously grizzly bears have incredible power, destructive power if they want Um, but normally they're, normally just don't see him. I guess I don't know, you just get used to it.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting, so cool. I don't know. I just love it. It's always fun to talk to Alaskans, just because, like I don't know, I feel like Colorado has just become. We just have too many people here, so you don't really see as many animals on the trails. It's just so different, it's so unique. You got to be just more cognizant of the woods, which is kind of cool. I don't know. The Wild West is a sweet place, man, pretty cool place to live.
Speaker 2:It definitely depends on the trails that you're on around Anchorage, because there's some where you're like you're going to be fine, you're always going to be fine. But you got to kind of be cognizant of, like, what time of year it is and like are the salmon running up this stream? Like, because then maybe you don't want to run the trail that goes next to you know, eagle River or something Like. Some places, like Eagle River Nature Center, will close one of their trails that the salmon are spawning on and bears are eating, you know. So you just got to kind of be aware of where you are and how popular the trail is interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, man, I think we're at. We're pretty close to about 40 45 minutes now. I think we got everything. Dude, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is a great conversation. Um, wishing you the best of luck as you continue your journey and, uh, so I hope we get you. Uh, hopefully we can convert you to the trails full time soon. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:Be prepared to give me a decade. We'll see.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. Fair enough, um, dude, like I said, so talented. Uh, hopefully we can get you more, at least more Stork series races. Hopefully we uh look at you out for a few of those next year and, yeah, we'll definitely be in touch, appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, michael, take care man. What'd you guys think? Uh, thanks so much to michael for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Kid is an absolute stud, has a crazy future. Um, doesn't matter what sport he does, he seems to be good at it. So if, uh, if, we pull him over to the running side, the kid's going to be a world beater. No doubt about it. Uh, guys, the best way you could support michael is by giving him a follow on instagram. You can follow. You can find him in mearnhart. That's mearnhart. Give him a follow on Instagram. You can find him at mearnhart. That's M-D-O-T-E-A-R-N-H-A-R-T. Give him a follow. Let him know what you thought about the episode. Obviously, he posts some good stuff on there of the different types of training that he's doing. Yeah, definitely, give him a follow and let him know what you thought.
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