The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#117 - Adam Loomis
When a Nordic Combined athlete transitions to mountain running, the results can be remarkable. Adam Loomis brings unique insights from his years as a national team ski jumper and cross-country skier to the challenging world of technical mountain races and ultramarathons. Having recently won the Telluride Mountain Run 40-mile race with a course record, Loomis opens up about how his specialized background has shaped his approach to trail running.
"Training for Nordic Combined, you're combining very, very different sports," Loomis explains, describing how balancing the power and technique of ski jumping with cross-country skiing's endurance demands created an ideal foundation for mountain running. This versatility shows in his impressive range – from placing top five at the technical Speed Goat 50K to taking podium positions at the 100-mile Run Rabbit Run.
The conversation explores life in Park City, where Loomis enjoys unparalleled mountain access while working at the Utah Olympic Park. He shares vivid details of racing experiences, including debilitating hamstring cramps during Speed Goat and the unique challenges of Run Rabbit Run ("way harder than it looks on paper"). Loomis offers thoughtful perspectives on the growing Salt Lake running scene and his friendly rivalry with fellow Wasatch runner Grant Barnett.
As the sport evolves, Loomis maintains a balanced view on professionalization while hoping the grassroots elements of trail running remain intact. His focus now turns to The Rut 50K and future international races like CCC, where his proficiency with poles (a skill transferred directly from Nordic skiing) should serve him well. For anyone fascinated by athletic versatility and the mental aspects of endurance sports, Loomis provides a compelling blueprint of how diverse athletic backgrounds create exceptional mountain runners.
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What's up everybody, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, james Lariello, and today I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode with none other than Adam Loomis, current resident of the Wasatch Park City guy. Adam was kind enough to come on the podcast about a week removed from his win at the Telluride Mountain Run 40 mile where he also set the course record. Really big fan of Adam's excited to have him on the podcast. He's an interesting character where he has just so much range in the sport. Not only does he like to race the really short stuff, but he also has a lot of range to be able to race the longer stuff. He's actually taken a podium at Run Rabbit Run as well as another top five finish this year at Speed Goat where he ran extremely respectable time. Really fun episode.
Speaker 1:We talked a lot about Adam's background. We got into Nordic combined where Adam kind of got into kind of his formative years, how he got into the skiing realm and just how it made him such a good trail runner today. And just after that we got into the rut where Adam will be racing in about a week. So talked a lot about the rut and what makes it such a special race and we talked a lot about where he wants the sport to go and where he sees himself in the sport in the future. It was a really fun conversation, big fan of Adam's and I'm looking forward to seeing what he's going to do with the rest of his 2025 season. So, without further ado.
Speaker 2:I hope you guys enjoy this one. None other than Adam Loomis. It's time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live, uh, steep stuff, kind of like that.
Speaker 1:For sure, man For sure. How was uh you just got back from I mean, I feel like we're the only two people that are not in Chamonix right now, so you just got back from the other Alps, the Colorado Alps. How was uh your time in Telluride?
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, you know, I was joking with, uh, my buddy Garrett, um, from Salt Lake, that uh turns out the Alps are just hiding in the San Juan's Um, so, um, you know, can't complain getting out there for a long weekend, but it was, it was pretty incredible. Um, yeah, I made it make kind of a point to take a little extra time and like five nights of camping. Um, and yeah, race Taylor red mountain runs 40, which is, uh, yeah, one of the better race experiences I've had. It was, it was good stuff.
Speaker 1:That's exciting to hear, man. I've heard a lot of really good things about those courses, like I've heard that that's one of the better like mountain races in the lower 48, which is good to hear. Hopefully they for sure keep that race going and keep it alive yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:I think everyone that does it is stoked um. Yeah, that the the ridge line up at over 13 000 to, uh, kelly ride peak is, like you know, they have search and rescue out there. The only thing that like, yeah, it's legit ridge running, scrambling um, the only thing that's compared, that I've done in a race setting was the minotaur world sky race, interesting, interesting, which is another fantastic race.
Speaker 1:That's one that should be. Uh, hopefully it's a little bum that got canceled for this year. Were you on the start list for it this year or no?
Speaker 2:no, I went last year and, uh, this year was doing twisted forks, which was, uh, that's right, finn's race pretty different, yeah, but local for sure, dude, did you get a chance to do?
Speaker 1:I think I was. I was lurking your strava when we booked this, uh, booked this podcast. I saw you did the. Um, was it the telluride via ferrata? Isn't that thing sick?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was fun. That was a good like mellower recovery day activity, um. But there's some moments where I was like glad I had brought my slings and, um, the views are stunning. Yeah, um, it's fun. Yeah, I've never done a via ferrata with gear. I've, you know, like scrambled through some in europe a bit. But epic, good, absolutely epic yeah, awesome man.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you had a good time. Congrats on the win. We'll we'll get into the race in a little, uh, little bit, because I do want to talk about some of that as well. Um, dude, when we get started or before we started, maybe give the audience like the five minute elevator pitch on, like your background, give me everything from like growing up in wisconsin to like nordic combined, and then we'll get into trail running cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think my background is a little more um, I don't want to say unique, everyone's unique but it takes a little bit of explaining because, yeah, starting with so, I grew up in Eau Claire, wisconsin, and was into Nordic skiing from a young age, in the cross country and the endurance stuff, and then, at 10, I decided to try ski jumping, which we had a local program. We have a local program, which I'm lucky, because there aren't there aren't programs in every town, um, and then, from that point on, for the next 15 years of my life, I would say, um, more and more, the most important thing to me was Nordic Combined, which is, uh, the distance ski jumping and, uh, cross country skiing, skate racing, um, and, yeah, that gave me the opportunities to make my way west. I ended up in Steamboat Springs for a few years at a development level and then moved to Park City in 2012, when I made the national team at 20, 19? No, I think I was 19 years old, so which, in some ways, yeah, a little bit of a late bloomer, um, but you know, persistent in the sport, and then I was a national team athlete, based out of here in park city for six years um, got to compete, you know, pretty much at the highest level world cups, world championships, uh, everything but the olympics, um, more or less, and um, yeah, it, it, uh, you know, obviously it was like a dream to get to be living the full-time athlete uh lifestyle and I I think the, you know, taught me a lot, sports teach you a lot, but it also like brought me into the mountain world and that kind of set me up for the life I live now.
Speaker 2:So, um, it's definitely something I wouldn't go back and and change things and um, also, like, I'm fortunate for that bringing I have, but also I'm happy to be here in the mountains. I don't know that I could be back to living in more of the flatlands.
Speaker 1:The Midwest.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, though, about the Midwest man, I mean Cam. Obviously he's a Midwest guy as well. I meet so many people from whether it's Wisconsin, illinois, minnesota, michigan, and those winters are just so brutal, like you just don't see the sun for so long. Um, I did a couple of winters in Michigan and I was like, oh my God, yeah, it was, it was, but you guys learn grit. I don't know what it is Like. Maybe it's the grittiness that you guys bring with you as, like, an additional trait. Um, and a lot of really solid like athletes in general come out of Midwest, which is kind of cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's interesting and, yeah, I think it gives you a little perspective and maybe a better understanding of how spoiled we are out West, and especially places like Park City, where it's uh, yeah, tends to be in the wintertime either sunny or snow and cold smoke. So we're pretty lucky.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. How do you like living in Park Like I know you're just like right outside of Park City, right? How do you? How do you like living in park like I know you're just like right outside of park city, right? How do you like being in that area? Like, obviously the wasatch is a dream, but that's kind of a. It's almost like I mean, it is a resort town in general, yeah, with a lot of money coming in and out of it. It's, it's, it's, it's an interesting place. I would imagine, like, what do you think about as far as like, living there?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I do live just outside of Park City, but I work here in Park City at the Utah Olympic Park, where I'm at now, as you can see from Kimball Junction in Park City.
Speaker 2:And yeah, park City is like as far as ski towns go, it's not like this necessarily small, charming town like Telluride, for example Although charming maybe isn't the right word either describe telluride right, like all ski towns have gotten exorbitant in terms of pricing and who lives there and all that. Um, I think the cool thing about park city is, you know, having the access to salt lake, um which you know it has an airport, obviously, and more jobs that, um, you don't have to whatever work remote for a tech company or whatever to to be able to live here. Um, and, yeah, the the access to to the mountains here, I mean the wasatch, is pretty incredible, um, and I feel super fortunate to be able to explore them. And then it's also, you can drive a few hours or four or five hours and, you know, get anywhere from the desert to the San Juans or the Tetons or you know it's the proximity is pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I gotta say you're right, man, the location is just, it's hard to beat. You are so close to the Tetons and, like you said, silverton, like the the San Juans are not that far either Like Colorado is pretty good access. And then you know, the Wasatch in its own right is world-class, not just the skiing, but like just the mountain running in general, like those climbs. I mean, it's very hard to get anything like that in Colorado. That's not like, it's just a very special place to be able to train and get fit, in my opinion, at a little bit of a lower altitude so you can get better adaptations, as opposed to being at what? 12, 13, 14, 000 feet in colorado, where you're moving just so much slower. So I think there's a lot of good stuff there. It's, it's.
Speaker 1:I was blown away. I stayed in park city. I went out last year for cirque series brighton and I stayed in park city, just over the pass, and I was like oh, wow, this is. I gotta come out to here more. This is amazing. Like this is, the access here is incredible. So, yeah, you live in an amazing place. Um, let's get into nordic combined. I, I, you're the, the one and only person I think I've ever spoken to that has done nordic combined, which is kind of neat. Usually, um, you know, I I've had a lot of nordic skiers with obviously you know like super diverse backgrounds. Uh, on the podcast, you know, obviously they get into trail running and, like yourself, do extremely well talk about nordic combined and kind of like how that background you think has made like helped you develop, um, your, the way you train and how helped you develop into such a good trail runner yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a super interesting sport because you're combining from um, like, uh, strengths and, um, physical demands. You're combining very, very different sports. Um, ski jumping is a technical sport that emphasizes power balance, mobility yeah, I guess power to weight ratio, really, because the ski jumpers trend quite light. And then, on the other side of things, cross-country skiing is an endurance sport that is more of a full body strength, and then it's got its own technique, um, which is basically totally different than ski jumping. Obviously, yeah, anyone could, could see as they, as they watch it.
Speaker 2:Um, so, training for it, um, you do, you have to pick and choose. Like, what do you want to focus on? Obviously you're training for both sports, but, um, you can't just train like a cross-country skier and then, like, show up and ski jump and expect to be able to to jump as well, because you're just gonna be tired, you're not gonna be fast switch enough if you're putting in the hours that you know a person like david norris, scott patterson, those mountain runners that are now successful, uh, or that were also cross country skaters, um, so I didn't train as high a volume, endurance hours as as those athletes were, and there's times where I'm like, oh man, that would have been nice, um, but we, uh, you know I had great coaches, um, that were kind of, at the time, pretty cutting edge with training theory. A lot of the stuff that you're seeing now is like, yeah, I was doing that in 2012. So, you know, one of the things is, if you, if you can't do as much volume, but we, we kept the intensities pretty high.
Speaker 2:I think that kept us pretty close, like the, the fastest skiers on our team and our our team tended to trend more towards fast skiing and just trying to get close enough in the jumping, which, um, you know, sometimes it can be tough skiing from the back, but it is fun, cause you have to ski up in the race because the pursuit style race, um and yeah. So, anyway, the fastest skiers were often not not that far off from some of the faster cross-country skiers in the us. Um, so I think I I think I was that's. I mean, one of the biggest things carrying into running is like I had this base of of training as well as, um, a lot of intention and purpose to the training that I've been able to continue with.
Speaker 1:Interesting. You hit on something that I got to ask you, cause you said something about jumpers. Obviously, power weight ratio. You got to be pretty, pretty damn lean, Like I would imagine. But I know a lot of cross country skiers and like they're. They're lean guys, but they're also extremely muscular, Like they're. They're. They're a little bit beefier, bigger than if you will, you're maybe your average trail runner. How do you do you find, is the sizing then for the person like somewhere in the middle, like how, how? I guess it's maybe just a cross country skier, then that's not as muscular, Like how does that work? As far as size goes, I'm just very curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, as a little bit of history ski jumping. It did get to the point around the time when the Olympic Games were here in 2002 where athletes were so light that it was unhealthy and they came up with some rules. So your ski length, which is the longer your skis are, the more surface area you have um, in theory, the better you fly. Um. What they did is they said if your, if your bmi is too low, you need to be on shorter speeds. Um. So they started regulating that.
Speaker 2:But that that bmi chart basically created a kind of a benchmark and it's like you want to be close to that. And in ski jumping, it's like you want to be right on it's not a little below and skiing on shorter skis in order to combine, to be competitive at the world level, like you're probably got to be within a couple kilos of that minimal bmi before your ski length starts going down um, which is to say that like it creates a pretty uniform, see, I mean obviously everyone's got their unique bodies, not everyone just looks the same, but like height to weight ratio bmi, like it's a pretty small margin compared to other sports and um. So the emphasis is like in in the. The gym training is more on training for ski jumping and doing enough core strength and and roller skiing in the summertime to be strong in the upper body, but not trying to bulk up like a, a sprinter cross country skier. They're going to have definitely some more muscle, yeah.
Speaker 1:Those guys are much bigger.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. I, I, I, just I just had.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you knew who Michael Earnhardt is. Uh, he's a alaskan mountain runner.
Speaker 2:Actually he's an alaskan. Oh yeah, he's alaskan nordic skier who also runs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I should say uh, yeah, but he's, he's a bigger dude. I I was like actually surprised that. I was like, wow, like you ski. But I guess it makes sense because for his discipline for sprinting, like you got to be a bigger dude. So it's, it's so cool across the different disciplines, like just how the body adapts and how it works. So let me ask you this from, uh, just an aerobic standpoint and just a training like, do you carry, like, do you work with a coach now for trail running, or do you just kind of do your own thing and just adapt? Um, adapt a lot of your training, if you will aerobic stuff into your trail running.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't worked with a coach since 2018, when I retired from Nordic Combined Part of it. I mean, when I was done skiing, I didn't necessarily foresee that I would be taking trail running to as seriously as I do now. It was kind of just like like, oh, let's hop in some races. I did an ultra, I did circ races, um, which were pretty ideal, having like pretty highly tuned vo2 max sort of training, um. And yeah, since then, having the background like I said I had, I had great coaching, I had good understanding of training theory and it's also something that I'm super interested in. So I'm, you know, reading books, listening to podcasts, being pretty nerdy about it and staying on top of things, um, that said, like I'm not saying I know so much, I don't need to coach. It's more just like I haven't found that that's something I want, I think at this point.
Speaker 2:I've been doing it so long that I like to be able to make calls as I go and like this week I'm coming off an eight hour race Didn't rest a ton after, but recovery has been pretty good and I'm like, yeah, I might do a workout tomorrow, but I don't need to. It's totally like I'll make that call and I'll, I'll be happy with it. Um, I've also yeah, I was just talking about this um in telerize with someone. I'm like I think I would be kind of a coach's nightmare because, um, my, my lifestyle, my work is just it's not. It's not super consistent and easy to be like we're just going to do this, this, this. There's a lot of fluidity, which is fine. It keeps it fun.
Speaker 1:Well, it's fine and it keeps it fun, and I also think that there's a lot of. You meet a lot of athletes with coaches, and this is nothing against coaching. I think coaching for the right person works perfectly, but I think there's a lot of rigidity in some degree and it also depends on the athlete. If it's an athlete with someone with your background that already has such an established base and understands heart rate zones and things like that, I don't think it's very hard to adapt that at all into trail running and then make some tweaks here and there depending on on how the body feels Right. I think like that makes that type of training theory makes a lot of sense. Where I think people need coaching is more so, maybe, whether it's accountability and then, or if you're an untrained athlete trying to um, you know, figure things out, or someone that may be trained, maybe trying to figure different things out. So, yeah, I think it's. It's just depends on on the person, but I see how it's very easy to cross over on certain things and it's like, um, it just makes sense, so very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, dude, one of the things I found really interesting about you and your background is the range. Like, you can run 100 mile races you just ran a 40 mile race this week but you like, in 2019, you had a great finish at mount marathon. A couple years, or last year, you just had a top five finish at minotaur. Like, is it just, do you pick races off of, like, what interests you? Do you pick races off of what sponsors want? Like, how do you go about, like, picking, picking races that you want to do?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would definitely say I do what what interests me, um, especially this year.
Speaker 2:And yeah, last year doing the minotaur, um, since I got into mountain running, like I said, I started with the cirque series um, as well as I did the whirl um that year, and so I was like pretty quickly like, oh, yeah, I, not only do I like this, but I seem to have a knack for moving through technical training, and then I did, but I've also found like, oh, I trend towards liking, or it seemed for a while like the longer I went, the better it was, and that was kind of reinforced with the first hundred going super well. I was like, sweet, like every year I'm just going to strive for 100 as kind of the main focus of the year and lead up to that, and then the next couple of years, like I did not finish 100, at least a race, until from 21 to last year, 24. And I think that gave me some humility, like, yeah, hundreds aren't just going to be easy. But also this year, this year, I was like, yeah, I just I picked races that were were interesting to me, um, and it's always been something that I respect in runners that, um, that shows some range and um try to try to do that a little bit myself I think it's really cool.
Speaker 1:I the only reason I ask is it's something I've been on for a while now I've been thinking about is, like man, it really tells a lot about the athlete if they can run 100 miles but they can also run a really fast 5k or they can run a circ series race really well and finish in the top 10 or 15. Um, yeah, I think there's there's a very telling thing. You know to have that type of range and just you know nothing against like particular specialists, because I think there's a space for that as well. But I think it's really neat, the very telling thing of, like how you've developed your body to be able to withstand you know, like stuff like that which is kind of cool. Um, let's talk I. I kind of ask you about, like run rabbit.
Speaker 1:Like you went there, you dropped out one year. One year you also got second place. Like you've had some done pretty well there. You, I know you spent some time and lived there. Is it? Was it more choosing that race for homecoming for you, or was it the prize purse Because the prize purse is pretty damn good, like what? What about it would incentivize and got you excited about that race?
Speaker 2:I think it was a bit of both. I, yeah, it was actually quite the odyssey to get to that finish line. Um, I was signed up in 2020. Um, and they were one of the races that was going to happen during covid until a month out, um, and then they finally pulled the plug, um, and at that point it was 100% just like, yeah, that's a cool race in a town I used to live at, um, in mountains that I'm familiar with, but certainly haven't I haven't been on all the trails at that point, or, um, seen it from that perspective. Um, and then, um, yeah, then I was like, okay, let's do the bear, let's stay local for the next year. Um, and that was actually signed up again in 2022.
Speaker 2:After the bear went well, I think I was starting to think like, oh, yeah, like, not only does run rabbit appeal to me because it is kind of a home race, but the prize money, yeah, that's sorry to ignore that for sure. Um, and yeah, that year, a month out, I was feeling like I was in great shape. I was four or five days out from doing a good 50 mile tune up, riding my mountain bike a little bit, and crashed and um, so that ended that attempt to run rabbit, um, and then the next year I was again like this is what I want to focus on and I was dealing with, uh, patellar tendonitis throughout the whole summer. Um, it really flared up at broken arrow, which I went out. I had kind of a rough experience, but, anyways, dealt with that, had a short build, thought I was ready, put myself up there and then like yeah, things kind of went to hell damn dude, um what a journey so far it for sure.
Speaker 2:So then in 2024, I actually was like I need a break, like I'm gonna focus on something else, um, and I think that same weekend I was signing for the rut which I'm doing this year, but then in july, like things were trending well, I'd done gorge hushers, you know, 200k races. That went well. I was like I think I should go back to run rabbit, um, and I'm glad I did amazing, amazing dude.
Speaker 1:Well, and what a I don't know like one of the things I really like about run rabbit not that I'll I have ever, ever have any intention of running 100 miles I just find it very nice to have like a really sizable prize person. It incentivizes the athletes to go there, like I think that's really cool. Um, I think it's one of the rarer things in the sports, because there's not a ton of races with prize money like that. I think it's it definitely. Um, I think they're paving the way in the sport plus, like this cool ways to like, for I think it's like teams. They do like a team-based thing as well.
Speaker 1:Um, for other ways to make money, which I think is amazing yeah, they even threw in the the gondola cream.
Speaker 2:Um, so the first. You know, in like two miles you're at the top of the gondola 22, 2,200 feet up the mountain, which is an outrageous start to sort of 100. And then, to make things even more hot, they threw in a $1,000 preem for the first one there. Men and women. That finishes the race.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. Did you get any of those extra incentives being on the podium that year?
Speaker 2:No, I did not. I I really wanted to have a good result more than I wanted to go for that cream, um. And then, uh, my, my teammate didn't have a. I think she didn't finish the race, which I can't um throw any shade, because I was in that boat the year before it's tough.
Speaker 1:It's a tough one. It seems like it's a tough one to get right for some reason, like not that it's that crazy high altitude or anything like that, but for something about that race. Maybe it's because the run ability you tell me, like what do you think it's so hard to figure out about that race?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's way harder than it looks on paper. Like it's like 17 000 feet of gain, which for a mountain hundred is like I mean that's lost in the states and the states is like a flat rate um, but it's, you know, starts at 1 pm. Now for the um, for the, the hairs, the elites that are chasing prize money. So if you're fast, you're spending more time or about the same amount of time in the dark as you are in the daylight, and you start typically with some heat, like yeah, the temps can be pretty hot still and it's like super front loaded with the vertical, and then you run downhill after being up high for like 30 miles. It gets wild how long you descend for. And then, like right around that time is when it gets dark.
Speaker 2:If you're towards the front um, and after we run in the loop around um, the emerald mountain, which is down by the uh, skiing and snowboard, it's kind of centered there um, then you climb back up in the night and then you're you're at elevation for like at like 10 000 feet for the last 20 or so miles. So yeah, it's not not the kind of elevation we're talking in in colorado, but like it's pretty significant. You're just grinding through the night and like all this stuff that's like should be super runnable becomes a lot harder, um. So yeah, it definitely gets people. It's surprising how tough it is interesting.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think the thing is too. I guess american races too usually start obviously early in the morning and if you're running you know you go into the night. But usually a pretty people are pretty pooped by the time they get into the night. So a lot of the I guess middle, even some of the elites like pretty pooped by the time you get into the night. So a lot of the I guess middle, even some of the elites, like pretty pooped by the time you get through there. So it's like maybe it's the bulk of the race being at night and not being able to train your stomach as well and like I guess that's kind of weird on your you know, depending on what you're eating, like that's that probably screws you up as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's I have no intention of that that's not.
Speaker 1:it doesn't sound very fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will say doing the bear and finishing at like 1am, I think it was. Yeah, I don't even know if it was maybe between 1230 and 1 or something. I was like that's a half a night, that's a lot easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. I'll take that any day. Dude, you just had an amazing result Top five at Speed Goat. Third time running this year, you ran 5.22, which is a very stout time on that course. How was your experience this year? Do you have a? I mean, it seemed like on paper you had a great race. It seemed like you got to run a bit with Grant Barnett We'll get into him in a little bit, but yeah, how was it for you? It seemed like a great result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was my third time doing it and it is one of the harder ultras I've done. I mean, every ultra, whatever race you finish last, is the hardest race you've ever done. Right, but but there's something about speed go, you know, it's super competitive and it's just like you're just on the gas the whole time. There's no like taking in the flowers, chilling, um, and I knew that going in and was like, yeah, I still want to do this race. It's why would I pass this up in my backyard? And I think it's the most competitive trail race in utah maybe. Yeah, I think it's more competitive than a cirque series even. Um, and yeah, with this year's fields, uh, it was. It was an interesting year because we didn't have, like David, or we had Michelino, but he wasn't coming in in his best shape, so we didn't have someone that were like, oh, they're going to run five hours, no chance. But we had 15 guys probably that thought they could top five, yeah, so I actually made splits for 520 and thought this is a 18 minute improvement on a little bit different course. That maybe is a little faster from 2021. And I hope I'm better runner than I was then. Um, and yeah, overall it. It's hard to not yeah, I should. I'm happy with that time. Um, it was definitely like, definitely, like damn, that didn't get on the podium, like that's kind of ridiculous. But um, that's just the level and I had.
Speaker 2:Uh, I was a little bummed about kind of like things were trending up after um, after the mineral aid station, when I I broke out my poles, which I debated whether I'd bring them.
Speaker 2:I brought them and like moved my way, I guess, past grant um, and was not too far behind anthony um, and then ripping down to the cirque traverse, on that descent I had some just stream cramps on both hamstrings and was literally on the side of the trail like screaming because I was just like it was debilitating, damn dude.
Speaker 2:Um, that's when eric went by me on his way to just he was on a mission, um, but actually it went away, and then I like ran some of the cirque with him, um, but I guess what bummed me out the most was just not feeling like my normal confident self descending um for the last ascent, like through that alice field, the top. I would normally be like this is my jam and I was like every step I'm like when are those cramps? Um, and I, and, yeah, maybe I would have been able to catch up to anthony a few minutes ahead if I had, you know, been really feeling it. But, um, overall can't complain, and I felt like that experience did give me a little fire, um, to bring that telly ride I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it too, and what I mean not to mention, you can always go back next year, give it another go I just it's hard for me to comprehend just the level of like muscular strength that you have to have, not just in the posterior chain but just your quads in general. Like how much strength work are you doing in front of like before a race like this just to make sure you can take like that level of up down?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I've been doing strength most of the year, one to two days a week really since that patellar tendonitis in 22. Of course, when I was an organ-mind athlete, we were doing quite a bit of strength and plyometric training and then I kind of took a break. I was like I don't need this, I'm just going to play in the mountains. Then you get hurt. And then you realize you got to come back um and I'm fortunate with my work, to be in actually like one of the most incredible facilities we.
Speaker 2:We partner with the us ski team and use their, their training center, um, and then. So usually I'm in there coaching. I'm able to either stay and work out out, or we have a master's group of adults that I tend to work out with them and kind of it's like a coach athlete role in there. So I think that has been pretty key to staying healthy and staying strong enough. And then now it's like when I'm in a heavy racing block I tend to that's kind of the first thing that goes. But I'll pick it back up. So interesting.
Speaker 1:I gotta ask you the grandpa net question, because you guys used to be teammates on dina fit and then like, yeah, you're both on the wasatch you, you're competitors but you also run together. Like what's that dynamic? Like like he's a, he's a wild boy. I really like grant.
Speaker 2:He's an interesting character yeah it, yeah, it's been super fun. Yeah, like you said, initially we were teammates with Dina Fit. I think at that point I was already skiing with him a bit and I would say we skied together more than ran when I first knew him. And then, yeah, it's tough because there's just so many running races that we don't always always link up, um, but in, in skiing I was definitely stronger, like I. Just he has a little less of a skiing background, so, um, I tend to be at least quicker on this sense of not the time to stop. But then the first time I raced him was at Broken Arrow and he was fifth that day. He had a great day and I had one of my worst days in any trail race so I got abolished but I was like, okay, guess, I'm not just guess, yeah, but it was also like he got fifth. I think like that, that gave me some perspective of like, yeah, if I had had the right day I probably could have been in that mix at the time.
Speaker 2:And yeah, this year it's been super fun. Um, I guess our little, our little rivalry probably goes back to last fall. He took my dc peaks 50 miler course record that I'd set the year before and that's a newer, not necessarily a race you expect to have like a bunch of top dogs, and it was kind of a race I did that. I was like that course record might stick around for a bit and it only lasted for a year, um, but I was like sweet grant thrashed it. He ran seven minutes faster than me, I think, um, so I was happy with that.
Speaker 2:And then this year, yeah, twisted forks and speed goes especially twisted forks. We ran like more than half the race together, just like shoulder to shoulder, heel to toe. Um, it was super fun. Speed goes a little more back and forth, um, but we still shared way more miles together at speed go. And, um, yeah, I did with anyone else, probably combined. Um, it's kind of reassuring to be running with someone that you're like, yeah, this is probably the right pace because we're sticking together and like, uh, you hear kind of commentators talk about somebody working together and sometimes it's like, dude, it's running, there's no drafting Right, but I think, yeah, there is something to be said for if you're right with the right person, um, there's some some benefit for for sure yeah, what?
Speaker 1:what is that? I mean you guys are friends. I see I always love competing against friends because it's it's friendly. Yeah, it's it's, it's just friendly. Like you know, if I beat you, which we joke about around, about it, if you beat me, it's still a joke, like it's fun. Um, how is that rule, that part of the relationship developed because you guys have been, you know, pretty close and in a few races. Now, like how is that? How's that part?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I think it's just made us better friends, um, which is great, like I think it's a testament to to grant to both of us, just like, yeah, being stoked for each other. Um, his girlfriend said after speak out you're the only person that's allowed to be grant um, and twisted forks like, and the moment of separation that happened when he started throwing up in front of my brother and his girlfriend who was filming, and like a week later he's like yo, dude, is there a video that? Can you send that to me? Of course I made the youtuber. I would, yeah, exactly, I guess he's got to do that, but I wouldn't have asked for that. I would have been like do that?
Speaker 1:that was, I don't want to see that, but so how, um, I I gotta talk to you about the salt lake running scene. I feel like between, just like the, the level has just grown immensely in the last few years, I'd say, since you know Finn started single track, that's obviously blown up. You've got, you know, garrett there, you've obviously got um Caleb, uh, there's just, and now Michelino is kind of there and not there sometimes. What is that like? I mean, there's, it seems like there's always people to run with, but what, what's been your takeaway from just the scene explosion in the last few years yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2:Um, I remember last year being out on a run when I was like really thinking about it, and it was carrot who's run a four minute mile, it was caleb, who's now a western states champion. Tyler green just moved to town western states podiums, you know like total legend. Um, and I'm like, yeah, this is just like a wednesday run in park in salt lake. Like this is wild and it's super cool to have those people to train with. Um, I've always ran with caleb a bit. Um, when you know when we can we try to get together every couple weeks and um, there's, yeah, there's always people to run with. Most of them are in salt lake, so I gotta maybe work a little more to get looped in and but I'm always happy to meet up in the canyons or whatever.
Speaker 2:Um, I think it's an interesting perspective, um, that sometimes you know, whatever world you're in, like you find these little niches, niches, and it is tough to like maintain a normal perspective because, like, whatever, like I'll come back from a trip and like, after this one, my co-workers knew about my race and they're all like you're amazing, like, oh, you know, super nice, and but then it's like there's always, there's always people doing, you know, one-upping you, you always see higher level. Like you said, right now, everyone's over in chamonix. Um, it seems that way, right, like the perspective is just wild when I'm like, oh, it's weird that I'm not in chamonix right now, um, which is like not a normal perspective to have.
Speaker 1:So try to keep, try to keep that in check at times now that you've run speed go a few times this year in particular, are you going to use that I? I mean, how is it's not a? Is it a major? It's not a major right, do you? You don't get an auto bid into OCC, do you for that?
Speaker 2:So it's a World Series event, it's not a major. The way that works is if you're on the podium, you're auto into that distance right then and there at the award ceremony, and so that was a reason to be kind of bummed about. Fourth, that was the hope, the goal this year, but then they released the utmb index right, based on their algorithm of your time over historical times, everyone else's index, and that was plenty high, um, to get an auto spot. Sweet. So grant myself and um six. Well, all those auto spots to OCC. My plan is to bump that up in distance to CCC and finally make it over there, nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Dude, I feel like you would do really well at a race like CCC. I feel like that would fit you, especially with all the a hundred mile distance range that you have, just the range in general, being able to be really good across different distances and kind of go up to that Like I think. Think you'd be.
Speaker 2:you'd have some success there for sure yeah, thanks, I think I think 100k is a pretty good distance, um, it's definitely, it's definitely plenty long to where, like, fatigue resistance is one of the more important things and I think that's one of my strengths, um, and but it's, yeah, at some point I want to do utmb, but it's like maybe a little more controllable in 100K than 100 miles. It's just like a whole other element where maybe I don't want to race in France the first time at 100 miles and, yeah, certainly this summer I've been excited about breaking out the poles and doing some steep climbs, which I know there's a little bit of a debate with CCC of whether you need poles or not, but, um, for sure I would, I would use them there and, like, I think there's plenty of steep climbing.
Speaker 1:I think too, with your background from a Nordic skiing perspective, like you guys can for some reason, can just use them somewhat Well, not even for some reason, but just in general. You guys can use them so much better than an average, even a normal elite athlete. It's got to help you. Whether it's Sinclair or Scott Patterson I usually see all those guys usually break out the polls at some point.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah. It's just an extension of the body it feels like, it's easy, it's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's talk about the rut. You're going back to the rut this year. Are you running the 50k or 20k 50? Yes nice, that's a dude. The rut is so hard like that's such a rough course. Um seems to be your jam, though obviously tmr was a good kind of dry run for that same, with speed go. What's the excitement level to go back in a few weeks and go race? Yeah, so this is.
Speaker 2:This is my first rep, oh it's um.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I thought you yeah, so I was well, I was on the entry list last year.
Speaker 2:That's why and then I changed my mind and this year I waited until about july to reach out and they were fortunate enough to let me in. Um, I mean, I've heard such good things about the weekend. Like it sounds like, you know, it's kind of speed go desk, but like little more, quite a bit more kind of local Montana flair, which I think is great. And yeah, it sounds like it's some pretty technical stuff. Certainly a lot of time on Rock and Alice and Scree, which not everyone loves, but I tend to have a good time with that. So, yeah, again, it's been like a bucket list race but I'm like probably shouldn't wait any longer, I should probably get there now.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think the 50k is definitely a little more my distance, like, yeah, as much as I appreciate the comments about range and I like to have some versatility, I think like against guys like jackson, cole and cam, like, uh, I don't think I have enough specificity in my training towards that couple hour racing to where the 28 K is where I want to put myself. So you know, obviously it's easy to enjoy what you are better at and trend towards that.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. I mean I got to give Jackson Cole's credit. I finally got a chance to race him at Cirque series Killington this year and I was astonished series killington this year. And I was astonished jackson's nasty he's so good. Yeah, if you win the 50k, are you gonna get a tattoo?
Speaker 2:you're gonna get the. I kind of feel like if you win a race and you get a tattoo, I don't know if that's like a little more questionable than if you just like do the race and get a tattoo. That seems like it's kind of like wearing your race shirt right after you win the race, like you know. You know, give it some time, but a tattoo you have it for life. So I don't know if I would do that.
Speaker 2:It's up to think about, for sure yeah I actually got out for a run with jackson cole. He was in salt lake and I was joking with him that we could bet each other. If the winner, the other person, wins, the other person has to get a tattoo. All right, which would be funny. But I also was joking because I was like you're probably gonna win, so I, I don't know that. I'm like signing myself up for this oh man, yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it's like that's. I mean, it's not an ugly tattoo, it's just some antlers. So it's like you can hide it, you know. You can like keep it. Keep it somewhere where nobody's gonna see it. You know but it, you know. You can like keep it, keep it somewhere where nobody's going to see it. You know, but it is, it's with you for a while, unless you get it removed.
Speaker 2:But it's a lot to think about, but I think if I had like some just wild experience, yeah, maybe that would be right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no fair enough, fair enough, let's talk Dina fit. I you've been with Dina fit for a little bit. What has that partnership been like for you? Are you more on? Are you a combined athlete, more on the run versus ski on both? Like, how does that work for for you guys? Because I know dina fit is a ski company as well yeah, they're definitely especially in the us.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean globally too, but they're they're more of a ski company and, yeah, leading the fast and light and schema world um, forever.
Speaker 2:Um, I got connected with them in like 2020 um, through a good buddy of mine, logan great, honest, that worked there at the time for a little bit, um, and they have been a perfect fit in the sense of, yeah, covering both sports and uh, providing equipment on both sides and and some sport on both sides, um, schema equipment is certainly not cheap, um, so that's been, that's been awesome to work with those guys, and I work with the north american team, um, and have developed, you know, a good relationship with them and, um, enjoy that support for sure. They're definitely not a huge Um, and I think, yeah, we'll see, like, if that they can continue to work into the market more with, you know, mountain running certainly, trail running is growing. It's whether mountain running kind of more of the extreme side is as much a little bit hard to say, but I mean, like in Salt Lake ski run, ski moco um now has Skyrun right, which is like Salt Lake's mountain running shop, so cool.
Speaker 1:There's certainly a good fit there yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's an amazing fit. I it's. Yeah. You know, I think dina fits good and their shoe technology has gotten. I feel like it's improved drastically in the last few years, like even their ultra 100s are dope now, like they've their shoes pretty, pretty solid yeah, they actually have a new.
Speaker 2:I have a pair of next year's ultra 100 which have quite a bit better foam. Um, I was surprised not to see hanas running in those at western states, um, but he was in the ultra dna, which is a shoe I've raced in quite a bit which again has a super critical foam and it's a really good, like typical trail ultra shoe. Um, it's not quite up for like speed goat or the rut, where you you want something a little more profile, low profile, which they make that as well. They make plenty of shoes for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's a cool company it's interesting, man, this week you get to see so much coming out of the chamonix valley with different brands dropping different shoes and stuff and it's always cool to see, uh, you know, a lot of the new technology kind of coming around the corner. Like you know, hoka, with you know 15 new freaking shoes and all these brands. It's kind of crazy, sure, with the sport changing. Like what do you? I? You don't seem like a crazy outspoken person on the sport, so I'm curious to see, like what you know kind of get your perspective on it. Like, are you, do you want to see this sport go to the olympics? Like what do you? What do you want to see out of the sport the next five years as an athlete in it?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, I think I'm excited about the growth, the professionalization, um, yeah, it makes it interesting. I I can understand the perspective of like maybe being hesitant or reminiscing on the old days, and I appreciate both sides. Like, I like to go to races that are, you know, like Broken Arrow, that are this big festival and they're like a lot, they're fun for sure. And then it's also fun to go to tell your ride where, like, they've got a single speaker for the mc and, like you know, things are more low-key, um, and I don't think we're ever going to lose that side of the sport. So I'm not too concerned about like, oh, utmb is going to take over the entire world, like, that's just not going to happen. Um, so I'm optimistic. I don't think the Olympics is what we need.
Speaker 2:Personally, I think the analogy to mountain biking has been brought up quite a bit and I think it would be kind of like that where it's like this loop format yeah, I mean, if they could keep it to that, like a golden trail race with three different loops like, oh, that could be cool. But I mean, if you think about a cross-country mountain bike race, it's like one loop times 10, that's. That's not, that's not trail running. Uh yeah, I just don't think we need it. I think we're seeing a lot of money relatively in coming in and there's people are able to make a living at the very top of the sport, um. So I don't see like that. We need to have the Olympics, um. The other thing is the Olympics can kind of create this like codependency um, where if you lose it, then there's all these issues. So I would almost say we're better off like never getting down that path. But who knows, I certainly don't have any control over that matter.
Speaker 1:I agree with you. I think there's I've been asking a lot of athletes this on the podcast, just because out of pure curiosity to see what people think and I think I always land on one thing that nobody brings up. It's that Olympic athletes in general don't make any money from anything. It's basically your name and likeness out there on TV rights and TV deals, but it's like you're not seeing any of the money from that. Maybe if you win, if you medal right, maybe you get a sponsorship right. It's kind of hard.
Speaker 1:So all that money that's wrapped up in sponsorships and things like that and TV deals, very rarely do the athletes see a lot of it, unless it's attracting different types of sponsorships in different ways. So that's where I struggle. I want athletes because you guys don't. The career is not very long in this sport, so I want athletes to make as much money as they possibly can, if they can, because a lot of people don't have backups right. Yeah, some people do, some people don't, it depends, but yeah, I think that's my big thing is like, if we do become an olympic sport, I also don't see it being like.
Speaker 1:I see it almost being like rock climbing or cycling or now that schema is involved, like I see it being a small subsect of the sport, like a different discipline whereas like for cycling for instance, like the sort of tdf is like still the biggest part of that sport and like a lot of the grand stages are like still the biggest part of cycling. Yeah, and I see like our utmb then would probably still be the biggest part of I would hope that our worlds would be the biggest, bigger parts of the sport, as opposed to the olympics for us.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's interesting yeah, yeah, I totally agree with all that. And, um, yeah, it's just a very diverse sport, so hard to pin it down into one one category.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, it's the dirt bag. I also believe the dirt bag stuff has got to survive. Like the little show up and there's just people writing down the times and there's not even timing mats. Like there's there's absolutely a place for that in the sport. Like that would be sad if we lost that. So, um, where do you see yourself? Like what do you? What are your goals for the rest of the sport? Like what do you? What do you still have left? I mean, you've done so much, you've been on the podium of some gigantic races, you've accomplished a ton. Like what else do you set forth to do in the sport? Like what do you want to?
Speaker 2:do? Um, yeah, I mean, I guess the first thing is I hope to be able to do it for a very long time. It's hard to say how long I'll be able to stay or improve on my level, because I coming into it relatively late, at like 26, and then kind of getting more into it, not really until I was like 28, 9. I feel like I'm still improving every year, at least in certain elements of the sport, if not overall, um, which has been cool, and I realized that, like now, that's not going to last forever or maybe too many more years. Um, I think in the immediate time frame I'm like, yeah, this is sort of my prime, I should take advantage of it. Um, so I do want to shift this focus, not shift it, but at least take some opportunities to race internationally the next few years. A bit, um, and then I don't know, I like to just kind of keep exploring and being able to find new levels, and you know that can be both like on the result sheet as well as like.
Speaker 2:I think that one of the most interesting things about the sport is having those days where you're like you're deep into the race and you're like, kind of like, I kind of get an out of body experience sometimes where I'm like, wow, how am I still doing this right now, like, however many hours in, and like I'm just trucking along and that doesn't happen every time but like that, that's such a cool place to be at, where you get to kind of see a new limit to what your body can do. Um, so that that keeps me fired up, would you say. That's your why, yeah, I think. I think that probably is my biggest. Why is like challenging myself to find, find new limits, um, continue to push that and um. That's why, yeah, racing is great, because it it motivates you to keep, keep striving towards that is there any athletes you see who inspires you in the sport right now?
Speaker 2:oh, man, I mean it's, it's a. There's a lot of athletes that inspire me, for sure. Um, yeah, like here, seeing seeing caleb win western states this year, that was like it wasn't shocking but it was still mind-blowing, right. Um, to see him in front of killian who's he's an inspiration to everyone. Um, but he's been very dedicated to the sport and just had this progression. Um, but that's cool to see to see. Like I said, back to the like, seeing people that we think of as local runners bring it to the world level. Um, that's been super cool. Um, obviously, yeah, it's utmb week. I've been. I haven't got through the results yet, so, no, no, uh, don't tell me anything on occ, but I've been watching some of the live stream all right, I'm not gonna say anything, I would hop on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would watch. I would watch the last five minutes of. Well, the women's race was dominant, but I would watch the last five minutes of the men's race, and that's's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 2:It's kind of well I'm. As I was chipping away at emails, I was kind of working my way from from early on, um, but yeah, I mean it's like there were two Nordic skiers in in the podium at multiple, like Sophia Lockley's in there, sam Hendry like the commentators are like who's this dude? I mean they know who he is, but he hasn't raced in a while. He's going to med school. And then David Norris just popped into the picture and third and um, that's as far as I made it so far.
Speaker 2:So, um, I think, yeah, that's why it's hard for me to say, like, what one person inspires you, because it's like, more and more I keep seeing these people that I'm like, I've raced with, I've hung out with, that are just like all of a sudden up at the very top of an elite field and that's that's yeah, that's pretty it. It makes the sport so interesting to know the characters like actually, no, it's not like a football team where you're like, oh, I think I know this person. You literally hang out with some of these people that are in the mix it's weird, right it's.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, it's almost like yeah I don't want to say imposter syndrome, because that's not the right word it's surreal like our sports kind of it has been so tiny and now it's getting significantly bigger, and you do.
Speaker 1:You know these people and it's weird, right, like I don't know, like I, uh, yeah, and like, yeah, it's very strange, I don't know, it's uh, that's the best way I can describe it. Um, last question, chris. Well, I already asked you like, who inspires you in sport? Who inspires you outside of sport? Like what? Where do you get? Like, is it friends, family, like what? What drives that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think I mean building on that and as well as in sport, but like, from a different perspective, I've always been really inspired by people who manage to be like successful athletes but then are also like have families, have these incredible careers, balance all these things and are just like giving so much to the community. Um, you know, I think of jared campbell here. Uh, luke, nelson and pocatella, um, the durays, who are both, you know, er docs and like they all have families, they all give back, like luke. I don't know how luke does it. He's a professional athlete, he's a pa, he's instructing wilderness medicine, he's putting on a race.
Speaker 1:Um, I have a big race too. Like not a big race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's, that's somebody. Yeah, luke, that's like that's high on my list of. I'm like that's so incredible that he's able to do all that um, and like it's such a more meaningful contribution than just being fast, like that's great and that does inspire some people. I get inspired by people just racing fast, but um, to have that full, full breath um is, I think, pretty cool and, yeah, something to strive for. No.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, I think it's a beautiful place to end it. I just don't know how people do it. Man Like Luke with all that stuff, like he's a husband, he's a father, like dude, and then on top of that, to do 9 million things and still like find time to do like your own thing as a sport, like yeah, I admire people like that because I can't quite figure it out, so I don't know. It's always cool. Adam, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, man. I hope this is the first of many and wish you the best of luck in a few weeks at the rut. And yeah, man, we'll be in touch.
Speaker 2:Right on. Thanks, that was a fun time. Thanks, man yeah.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh, man, thanks for tuning into this episode. Want to thank Adam so much for joining us Um, really great conversation and absolutely wishing him the best of luck as he takes on the rut next week and as he finishes up his 2025 season. Guys, you can uh find Adam on Instagram, you can give him a follow and you're going to find him at ski Loomis. That's S K I L O O M I S. That's one word, and it's going to be linked in the show notes for you guys to give him a follow. Um, he's got some sweet photos, both of him on podiums and him running some pretty, uh ridiculous ridges, um, and uh just playing in the mountains. It's all good stuff there.
Speaker 1:So, guys, before we get going, hop on social media, hop on wherever you get your podcasts, whether it be Spotify, apple or YouTube. Please give us a five-star rating and review and if you enjoyed this episode, please give it a share. We'd love to get this out to the world and we can continue to tell the stories of these amazing athletes and preview some of the coolest races on the planet. So also, last but not least, if you are in the market for a new vest or a new belt or any type of hydration solution. Ultimate direction, our partner, has you covered. Use code steep stuff pod. That's right, steep stuff pod one word on your cart for 25 off your purchase. And yeah, they dropped all kinds of good new stuff recently a brand new pole quiver, as well as a new race and ultra vest pretty dynamic and some beautiful colorways, some definitely worth checking out. So hop on over to ultimate directioncom. Use code steep stuff pod. In one word Very, very, very.
Speaker 1:Last but not least, if you guys happen to be on the front range in Colorado, next week, september the 11th, on Thursday at 530 PM we are going to be at the Laspertiva Boulder store, not just for a group run, but we're going to be doing a live podcast with the legend himself, mr Anton Karpicka. If you guys happen to be on the front range and are interested in looking for something to do on Thursday night, go grab dinner in Boulder, get yourself a group run and pop on over to the Las Partiva Boulder store for a live recording. You can pop into the show notes as well to RSVP. I'm going to embed a little link in there for the Eventbrite for you guys to RSVP. If you don't do that, just pop in. Not a big deal. I would love to see you guys all out there to support, really looking forward to interviewing one of my heroes in the sport. No-transcript.
