The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#120 - Benjamin Townsend
Balancing on the knife edge between breakthrough performance and burnout, Benjamin Townsend takes us behind the scenes of his remarkable season traversing continents in pursuit of skyrunning glory. From the humid jungles of Malaysia to the technical Alps, his journey reveals the unseen challenges young athletes face when building a global racing career.
The conversation opens with Benjamin's qualification for the U23 Skyrunner World Series Final and his rollercoaster experiences competing internationally. After a devastating DNF in Spain where debilitating foot pain left him unable to continue, Benjamin rebounded spectacularly with his first U23 win at Japan's Weta Sky Race - a grueling 16-mile course with over 10,000 feet of vertical gain. The victory marked a pivotal moment, confirming he belongs among the sport's elite.
What makes this episode particularly valuable are Benjamin's candid reflections on the physical and logistical challenges of international competition. He details his specialized training approach - using a 40% incline treadmill to develop the power hiking skills Americans often lack compared to Europeans from skiing backgrounds. These insights reveal the technical demands of true skyrunning that casual fans might not appreciate.
Perhaps most compelling is Benjamin's vulnerability discussing the fatigue that eventually caught up with him. "I've been pretty much tired since July," he admits, acknowledging the lesson that saying yes to every opportunity has consequences. This hard-earned wisdom shapes his evolving approach to racing strategy and career longevity.
The episode peaks with Benjamin's breakthrough at Broken Arrow, where he slashed nearly 20 minutes from his previous time to finish in the top 20. This performance didn't just catch the attention of major brands - it fundamentally shifted his timeline for reaching the sport's pinnacle. "My why hasn't changed," he reflects, "but the when has... it feels a lot closer than before."
Whether you're an aspiring mountain athlete or simply fascinated by the mental and physical demands of elite endurance sports, Benjamin's journey offers a rare glimpse into the realities of building an international racing career from the ground up.
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Welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to welcome Benjamin Townsend, the young talent, back to the podcast. Benjamin joins us just off of a Euro trip where he raced both in Slovenia and did a trail team training camp. So far with a top 20 finish at the broken arrow sky race 23k, which was a golden trail series race amongst many others, including a bid to the u23 sky runner world series final, where benjamin will compete with other u23 athletes, uh, for the overall um, for the overall win. Um, yeah, it's pretty good stuff.
Speaker 1:It was exciting to catch up with benjamin, reassess his whys and where he's at in the sport, talk about what he's excited about right now to continue to pursue, what he likes to continue to race and what his plans are for 2026 and beyond. We talked about a lot of good stuff, like over racing, just how busy his schedule has been, a lot of back and forth and travel between the United States and Europe and Asia. He's been kind of all over the world this year. There's some good stuff, so I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's a great episode and really appreciative for Benjamin to come back on for a conversation. So, without further ado, benjamin Townsend, it's time. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Ladies and gentlemen, we are live Benjamin Townsend.
Speaker 1:welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, buddy?
Speaker 2:Doing good man. Happy to be back. Thanks for inviting me once again.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I love having you on man. It's always fun conversations like race previews and then talking about what you've been up to. Dude, you've had a busy season, man. You're traveling everywhere, doing the damn thing. I mean, you're over doing Sky Racing Series in Asia, and then you're back running Broken Arrow and then you're doing the Cirque Series. So it's been fun to follow along. How do you feel, bud? How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling pretty good. I'm definitely pretty tired. I think the travel back and forth felt really good until all of a sudden it didn't and it hit me all at once and really have been struggling to sort of manage that fatigue and try and train and race still which I think I've definitely learned that just because you're invited to all these things doesn't mean you have to do them all Okay.
Speaker 1:So you're in the process of then, you get invited to these things and you say, yes, it's hard to say it's hard to say no, dude, like it's really cool when someone reaches out and they're like, hey, come to my race, come do this, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to do that, and then you do, and then you get a bunch of them and yeah, I feel your pain, and then you got to say no or you don't say no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in my case, case I did not say no so, dude, how are you?
Speaker 1:so we got to catch up on a lot of things. First thing is I I'm wondering if we maybe talk sky runner and then we can kind of get into broken arrow, because you had such a lights out, broken arrow result this year. Um, I know that's changed a lot of things for you in in a very positive way, um, but let's, let's talk sky runner. You were invited to the sky runner world World Series Final this year. Is that correct For the U23?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So they accepted me again as an elite U23 athlete, and so I just had to participate in three races to get to the final, and so I did my part, and now I can go to the final in October in Spain.
Speaker 1:Okay, so final is in October in Spain. We'll talk about that and the stoke level for that. Let's talk about the races that you did, though I think it was. Was it two in Asia that you did, or one? I know one was in Spain, two in Asia. Let's talk about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started it out and um, the Colomoro sky race in Spain, uh, earlier in March, and I was so fit, going into that race feeling really good and excited, and ended up about eight or nine miles into the race having a really strange foot both feet issue, they both. Basically I couldn't put any flexion or pressure on either foot without just the most incredible amount of pain and so I ended up having to DNF out of that race. They had to carry me up the mountain, so that was kind of it kind of got all of my kinks out at that race. So I did that and then on the flight home got super sick, was sick for like a week and then I sort of felt like, okay, I got out all the negative parts of the season, so let's go see what we can do.
Speaker 2:And then early April into May or late April to May, I did a two week block in Asia. So I raced um in Malaysia, the Penang sky race for you 23, which was only a 10 K, uh, 10 K with 3000 feet, super technical, rooty jungle, 95 degrees, 90% humidity, just brutal race. And then that following week raced Weta Sky Race in Japan, which was another hefty hitter. It was about 16 miles with a little over 10,000 feet of vert and thankfully got the win for U23 there, which was my first sky running U23 win. Then I raced in Peru after Broken Arrow and that was sort of my sky running world series about this year.
Speaker 1:Oh man, dude, so all over the world You're everywhere, you're doing things. Let's talk Spain a little bit. I think it's important to talk about the low points so that way we can, like you know, really hype up the high points. What, what happened? Like I've had dude I it's funny you say that I've only had it happen to me in the winter, on like certain like icy or like really snowy stuff. And if I'm trying out new shoes, were you wearing a brand new pair of shoes? Because that's the only time I've had issues with my planters freaking out.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, it was new wear. They had about probably 40 miles on them before the race, so I was feeling confident in them. I think I still have no idea what happened. I think it was sort of a perfect storm of maybe my socks being a little bit too tight, along with the shoes also being tied a little too tight and then, who knows, changing elevation really fast. All kinds of things could have affected it, but it was such a weird pain. I was fully dehabilitated, I couldn't walk at all and it took about three days to recover from oh really I could walk normally.
Speaker 1:You were sore from that then. That's interesting dude, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's wild, yeah, and I haven't worn those shoes since and I've been okay. What is it? What were?
Speaker 1:they At the risk of losing the future sponsorship. What was it? It they at the at the risk of uh losing the future sponsorship? It was, it was the normal zhrak brute. So there, shout out to killian there oh god. I mean, dude, they're, at least they're. They're sexy looking shoes. They're cool as fuck, like I'm, oh, yeah, they're cool. So I've actually never worn the zhrags. They look dope though, but I don't know. Maybe, uh, yeah, not for, yeah, not for sky racing, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I I have no idea. I've run in them other times, but okay, so it was a really really weird and I was super bummed cause I was so fit Like I just felt like I could really smash that one out of the park.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and that was a competitive race too. Colin Morrow had I think everybody was in there. There was like, was it? Oh man, I get the name screwed up. Who's the Antonio guy that you know that runs for ASICs? That's really cool Antonio. Martinez yeah, that guy's so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's great, super cool. All right, let's talk about your Asia trip, though. That's what I want to get into, because that's where the meat and bones of the success came. How did it feel, obviously, to get your first U23 win, especially on such a big stage? I know we were all back here cheering for you. We're like, yeah, we got an American on the podium, let's go. How did that feel to you? I mean, that must have been not just a weight with it off your shoulders, but just showing that, okay, I can do this and I can do this at an international level.
Speaker 2:Do this at an international level. Yeah, it was definitely interesting. I think the weight off my shoulders was actually pretty big, because there's a point where you race, I'm kind of the person who always wants to win, no matter what. Even if I'm racing people who will totally beat me, I think I'm going to win and I want to win. And so I think I was definitely a little bit frustrated with how I just wasn't quite performing the way I wanted to leading up into this, and kind of last year wasn't as good as I wanted it.
Speaker 2:And then to just be able to really like put together a race, feeling good about my nutrition, not making any dumb mistakes you know know, the shoes were good, nutrition was good, everything just kind of went smoothly and then to actually like get the U23 win was just so. It was exactly a weight off my shoulders, like finally, I know kind of proving to myself that I can do this and that I'm really one of the best in my age group in the sport, and so it was really cool, especially at such a hard race. I think where Americans tend to struggle a little bit more is those super high vert races and really steep races, because those Europeans are so good at hiking and they have the schema background. So I was happy to do good at something that maybe isn't just an American fast course, you know, is true sky running.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, let's talk about the course itself and preparation for a race like this. Like, obviously you got to race in Japan just before. Like what were you doing in the lead up to or what? So I know obviously your dad is your coach in the lead up to, or what would. So I know obviously your dad is your coach. Uh, amazing world-class coach, jeremy Strom. Um, what did he have you doing that? Like prepared the legs for something like this? Like, were you doing a lot of power hiking? Like what did you mix it up in and how did you have the muscles kind of prepared for something?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in the off season I do a lot of. We have an incline trainer treadmill that goes up to 40%, um. So I'm in that pretty much all winter, just at that really awkward pace where you're everything in your body wants to run but you can hike and just forcing myself to hike for as long as I can go. Basically that was one of the big things to help my hiking improve, because I think a lot of Americans specifically struggle with hiking because we're so runner-based, I think.
Speaker 2:And then I was actually doing a lot of stuff on the incline, getting really steep repeats with hard downhills in between, and then we also sort of stack efforts, if that makes sense. So maybe Friday a really hard vertical and then Sunday sort of a good hard up down with really steep terrain and just sort of building up that base of beating your body up a little bit. And thankfully in Colorado Springs we do have a lot of steep trails where maybe you don't get quite the length of steep trails but you can definitely sort of replicate that up, down, up down, up, down, up down, yeah that's interesting, it's funny you say that.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of been something I've been thinking about a lot lately is I used to think of Colorado Springs as like the absolute perfect training ground, but I and people might get people, I might get eyes for this one, but like I, I don't think it is as much as I used to think.
Speaker 1:And the reason I say that is because, like, we don't have.
Speaker 1:We have a couple good dirt like dirt road climbs and stuff like that, but like nothing as like the one thing we're missing is a is a ski roads, like a ski resort type of roads, um, or ski resort climbs that are in that like 17 to 20% range that are, but it's runnable.
Speaker 1:You know that's not like super technical. So it's almost like that in between section that I've had this conversation with a bunch of people in the last week because I've been like projecting like certain climbs for like the off season and stuff like that that would like fit the profile of stuff I want to race next year and I'm like dude, we just we don't have this, we need this. So I know exactly what you're talking about. There's a few spots like, but you'd have to go up, down, up, down, up down, in order to, like, get the vertical relief that you need. It's almost like uh, define the exact specific type of climb to replicate like I don't know, maybe like a broken arrow or something like that. It's actually a little bit harder than people think, which is interesting it is.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of our climbs. Just they're good steep, but just not very long because a lot of the stuff that we're doing is in the foothills. We don't really get into the mountains that much just because they're not super accessible here. You have to run really far to get to them and there's not really a way to drive. Yeah, there are like a good amount of off-trail options, but then again it's very loose and you know one step forward, two steps back, so it's not your.
Speaker 1:You know grouse, grind and squamish or anything like that did ace take you back to the crystal park trails recently?
Speaker 2:yeah, dude, what the fuck? Yeah, I love it in there. That's, that's honestly. I was training a lot in there for weta. Oh, oh, really Okay.
Speaker 1:Interesting, interesting. So one of the things we'll get to I do want to talk about in this conversation is a lot of the stuff you've been doing with the trail team, but we'll get to that in a little bit. I want to finish up, skyrunner. Um, so obviously this is a huge opportunity for you to be able to go and compete in the final again. Um, what do you think Like is this, now that you're kind of like at a point in the sport where you're really have grown you've done a couple of years in this do you think you'll do it again next year? Is that something you'll continue to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm in a weird limbo spot right now because I'm not exactly sure how the U23 rules work. Next year I turned 23 at the end of the year, so for pretty much the whole year I'll be under 23, but I'm not sure exactly what the rule is. If I'm still classified as U23, I'll 100% do it because I know I'll be able to get support. If I'm not part of that, it will kind of depend.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'll be able to do the full series because they ask for four or five races, but I think I'll definitely stay in sky running because I do really love that style of running. So maybe next year looks like I do one or two sky races if I'm not U23. Unless I get some sort of partnership that can pay for all my travel. But I think it's really hard when you live in America to do the Skyrunning World Series because everything is really far and not super easy to get to, Like even the Canadian race. Yeah, minotaur, minotaur, it's really. There's not a good way to get there. You have to fly somewhere and then drive three hours pretty much no matter what, and so I think that just is really hard on your body.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this Is the reason you haven't gone to Minotaur the last few years because of Broken Arrow Like? Has it just been because of the same, similar, same weekends?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it has been. It has been the same weekend and broken arrow is really important to me, but also it hasn't been a part of the U 23. Oh, so they don't give me any support to go. I would have to do it on my own dime, basically Damn bastards which of? Course looks incredible. I was going to say, I was like what the hell it's so good?
Speaker 1:I had a, you know, a good buddy of mine, you know. I was like what the hell it's so good? I had a good buddy of mine, brad. Brad was supposed to go out to it this year and it got canceled. I was like, oh man, that sucks. Yeah, hopefully they don't cancel it next year.
Speaker 2:And they didn't do much to help with athletes either. So if that was going to be one of your four as an elite and you went to that one and they canceled it, they didn't say okay, you only need three, they. You went to that one and they canceled it. They didn't say okay, only in 83. They're still expecting them to find another race to get to, which is kind of a bummer, because I know at least last year Golden Trail, when Tatra got canceled. They kind of had some leniency with that, but Skyrunning seemed pretty stiff on. We want four or five races, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it makes sense, and they also have a gazillion races too. So I guess four or five races, yeah, well, it makes sense, and they also have a gazillion races too. So I guess for the euros it's so much easier because there's literally a race every other week or every week. There's just something I always get what do you? Let me ask you this because, like you've raced a lot of the races, like, what do you? What do you think like do you not just the style of the race, but because there do you like it, because there's so many options. I mean, I don't know how it is for U23. It seems like there's much more limited options for U23, but when you're comparing it to, maybe, the Golden Trail Series, that's more of a track race. Do you just like the style better? What do you like better?
Speaker 2:about it. Um, I really enjoy the steep stuff and really technical Um, and I think it's also kind of what I'm good at. I think the golden trail is really cool, but also it just doesn't interest me that much. It's, it's too fast and it's not uh, I don't know. Sky running has a really cool community where it still feels sort of that bad egg trail vibe, but with performance, Whereas Golden Trail seems like full-on kind of road mentality, if that makes sense, where it's kind of be eaten and nobody's really. It's kind of very clean, which I don't love Much more cutthroat.
Speaker 1:Let me. Let me ask you this in so you've gotten, you've had an opportunity to spend a lot of time with the trail team athletes this year and a lot of them are, you know, uh, like in your age group, uh, and some a little younger what, what are they like saying, I mean, what are the young guns like coming up Like, do they want to do sky runner? Like saying, I mean, what are the young guns like coming up Like, do they want to do Skyrunner? Do they want to do golden trail? Like what's the, what's the thing that people want to go to? Like it's just a curious. It makes me curious because I, I just, like a lot of people, feel like we just need more North American races on the Skyrunner series, Like we need to make this happen. You know, I'd love to see more of a push if more American athletes were going, were to do it, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think it's interesting Cause I would say this year's crop of the trail team athletes is a little bit different than in the past. I think in the past it's been very golden trail type people. But just talking with a few of the people on the team, like a lot of them are really interested in that more sky running-esque kind of running, which is interesting.
Speaker 2:I think it's pretty kind of dependent on your background, I guess. So, for example, jarrett Gillingham and Sophie they are both like. Sophie grew up running a mountain marathon her whole life, so she really wants to get into sky running. And Jarrett just loves adventuring. He was, he went to school in Bellingham, washington, and was always up in those technical mountains and he wants to do it in the sky, you know. But then we have some people on the trail team who are even from uh, ohio, you know they're. They're. She was not interested in sky running at all. The golden trail is definitely more her alley gotcha. So it is kind of cool. I think when it first came out it was a lot more of the speedsters who only want to do golden trail, but right now it's a cool mix of mountain versus maybe road trail, hybrid and golden and ultras and that kind of thing, options.
Speaker 1:I like the idea that at least there's options like like, if we just had golden trail, I don't think it would just be, I don't think it would be very good for the sport. I'm glad there's something that exists like sky runner and circ series and these different like levels and different opportunities just besides Golden Trail, that kind of make up our sport. So there's options for people to do. Let me, let me, get into let's, let's, let's talk trail, the trail team. So you went to Squamish for their camp and you also went to Germany. You were selected to go race for Team USA and do the Germany camp as well. Let's talk Squamish first. How did that opportunity come about with Andy and how did that solidify? How did it go when you went out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Squamish camp was one that I wasn't planning on doing because it was sort of a little bit more I don't know what the word is they were kind of selective with who was going and they wanted to hold spots for certain people basically, and it was sponsored by Archeterics Camp and so I was actually planning on racing the Youth Skyrunning World Championships that same weekend and I don't want to say too much, but I was having a bit of trouble with the management of that Youth Skyrunning team for the USA and I really didn't feel excited or comfortable going. To be honest, it just didn't have a good vibe to me at all, just with who was running it and how it was being run and how things were being dealt with. And then, right at that same time, I was kind of having doubts. Andy said hey, we have a couple extra spots at this Canada camp if you'd like to go, and I was like, yes, please, I would love to go to Squamish. I've always wanted to go.
Speaker 2:It seems like a wonderful place and it was actually pretty much fully funded. So they covered flight, they covered our stay, we just had to pay for food. Essentially, which was amazing, we got to tour the Arcteryx grounds and sort of get an inside view of what they're working on and different product and which was just that's kind of my dream in the future is to be shoe and product development. So it was really cool to sort of see that behind the scenes, especially at the brand like Arcteryx who seems so forward thinking with their style of creating stuff. And then our Terex guys kind of showed us around the local trails, which were absolutely incredible. They do a lot more rock climbing as a part of their running. It's kind of intertwined when I feel here it's like you're either running or climbing or you're kind of a sky runner, which there's like five of us in America who sky run. So it was really cool to go do this true mountain-based camp and it was actually pretty cool because there was only six of us there.
Speaker 1:Wow, dude, that's amazing. Did they kick you guys out? Like what was the? Did you? So? Obviously you toured some of the arterics facilities. Did you get to meet Adam Campbell and Jesse McCauley and all them yeah, cool people. Um, what was the facilities? Like, what did you guys do? I saw like one day you did like a VK thing that was like a massive climb or something like that. I think you told maybe I don't know if I saw that or you told me about it. I can't remember, but anyway, like what was? Uh, what did you guys do when you were?
Speaker 2:there, yeah, so we all flew in um and that same day we drove and did and went to precision, cause they have a big little, they have a little place there. And for the people who hadn't already got sweat tests, got sweat tests done, sort of talked through how precision was started and why they're started. Are you a salty sweater For you? I'm not. I had 700 milligrams.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm almost double yours. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so apparently the guy who founded it was about 1800 milligrams of sodium per liter, holy shit.
Speaker 2:And he kept cramping up and cramping up and then he finally realized that he needs to create a product to stop this from happening. So it was pretty cool to sort of see Precision's background. They hooked us up with a bunch of gels and electrolytes and cool things like that, and then we headed over to the Arcteryx grounds, got to tour around a little bit, meet with Adam, and then we headed over to the Arcteryx grounds, got to tour around a little bit, meet with Adam and then Cam, who's their athlete manager, and then went over to the Grouse Grind, which is essentially like. They have a three of them, I think there's one in Whistler, one in Squamish and one in Vancouver. So we did the Vancouver one and it's about I think it was only a little over a mile with 2,000 feet or something. It's super steep.
Speaker 1:So is it better than our incline? It's less stairs.
Speaker 2:It's more trail, which was kind of nice. I would say. It's less steep, though, but Joe Gray actually just raced one of the grouse grinds I saw yeah this weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in Vancouver. I didn't know that was a race, I was like dude, yeah.
Speaker 2:You would love it. It's actually really sweet. It's kind of a mix of trail and stairs, um, but just beautiful sort of introduction kind of then went into squamish next day did the chief, which is a famous mountain there, sort of squamish is canada's yosemite, so they're huge climbing town, giant stone walls, and so we ran and ran, climbed sort of the, to the top of the chief, which is their most famous climbing wall, sort of their l cap, if you will, um, which was just so cool. I just love that mix of I mean sky running, you know, I just love that mix of I mean sky running, you know, I just love it. I think it adds such a cool element and it sort of slows you down and puts you more in the moment rather than just running through the mountains with your eyes closed, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:What was that big day you guys did? That was like, is that the chief? Where you guys were like all hooked up with gear and like you had like a full-on um, like kind of rigs and everything yeah, so that was the next day.
Speaker 2:Um, we did what the mountain called sky pilot, um, and they rented us all ice axes and helmets and all the things we needed and we we took a gondola up, ran and then had to go up kind of scale, this snow face which is why our S-axis were needed. You just sort of kind of zigzag across, make your own little path and then actually got to do a little bit of rock climbing up to the top and then just we didn't need ropes but to sort of practice the skill of it, test it out, we did rappel down, which was really fun Shoot.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:It was so cool. We got to go out. One of their athletes accompanied us on that trip. It was just so cool because it was only 10 miles or something, but we were out there for maybe five hours, you know, which is just a totally different system and different life than a lot of what we're doing out here, where everything is runnable you know, it's true, we don't spend as much time as you'd like you would have.
Speaker 1:I mean for five hours, dude, that's a. It's like a 40 mile run out here. Like it's like, it's true, we don't spend as much time as you'd like you would have. I mean for five hours, dude, that's a, it's like a 40 mile run out here.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, it's like that's crazy. Definitely.
Speaker 1:What um like? What'd you take away, like the from these experiences? Like has it been great for you, for you know skill development. Like what? What did it like? What have you taken away from it?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say it definitely helps with networking, Um, and not just for brands or, you know, trying to move yourself up in the sport, but also just with friends and people your age kind of trying to do the same thing as you, which is sort of cool. So, again, like I'm meeting the Arc'teryx athlete manager, which is a company I would absolutely love to be a part of, and at the same time I'm meeting other people my age in the country who are doing trail running and now I have a place to stay in Flagstaff, you know, or they have a place to stay in the spring, you know, or they have a place to stay in the spring. So it's really cool because it really brings together this community and makes it a little smaller, which I think is cool. And I really like what Andy's done because I think it really puts young trail runners on the forefront, where in the past I think brands have really only focused on the. Now you know they want, okay, who won Western States this year, that's who we want and that's all they care about, Whereas I think Andy's saying, hey, look, you can get somebody at 21, 20 years old and have them from their sub ultra days all the way to.
Speaker 2:Maybe they win Western States in 10 years. And then you have this really cool partnership and you helped develop that athlete. So I really like how he's done that. He's sort of acting like a college recruiter, but for trails, you know, he's not just. I think a lot of the brands are kind of lazy and they don't really recruit. They wait for people to come to them and if they're not world champion already, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:And even if you are, it all depends Do you fit their marketing scheme. And I mean, this is not shitting on brands, brands are brands.
Speaker 2:Right, it is what it is. But that said, it's not like we're making shit up, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:But that said, I mean it's not like we're making shit up, like it is what it is Like.
Speaker 1:If you don't fit into the marketing campaign or what they want to do with their marketing campaign or whatever, then you're SOL.
Speaker 1:I mean, some of the best athletes in the sport, like Brian Becker it's taken him I don't even know if he's found a sponsor yet and he's better than I'll ever be, better than most people will ever be, and like there's just so many athletes like that that if, um, you know, brands were to open their mind a little bit more, um, to partnerships, I think it would change.
Speaker 1:And that's what I really appreciate about what andy's been able to do, like he's really grown outside of it. You know, the other thing I like too, man is, you know, for instance, like there's the trail team elite, but at the same time, like he opens the team up as well to like yourself, to Rena, like athletes that didn't go through the application process or didn't go through the whole process back earlier in the year, and there's, and he just presents those opportunities to you guys to be able to do the same things, to get the same opportunities, um, and I just really appreciate that it's not just like a closed system, it's it's it a lot of folks which is great. So definitely.
Speaker 2:There's the trail team elite, which is their um, post-collegiate specifically. So all those kids are just coming out of college wanting to get into the next stage of their running um, and then they have the trail team club, which is essentially categorized as the best unsponsored trail runners in our country, and then there's just trail team associates like there's so many people that are neither of those categories that are on these trips and are invited to do all these cool things. And then there's trail team boulder.
Speaker 2:So it's really cool how it sort of broadens out and you know, and it's really cool, how it just sort of webs. You know, andy finds the people he knows of and then they all say, hey, I actually know someone who'd be really good for this. And then that brings another person in and now it's a hundred people where it was just maybe 20 to begin with. It's amazing, like I said it, what he's created is?
Speaker 1:it's just maybe 20 to begin with. It's amazing. Like I said, what he's created is just. I mean, we talk about this every podcast but it's like just what he's done for the sport. Not only does he create his own competition, because he just continues to pipe people into the sport, but it's just grown so much and I'm glad I feel like this year more than any other year, it just like you've really seen the compound effects with what he's been doing, with just the camps. Let's talk about Germany First of all. You were selected to go represent Team USA or represent the United States in Germany. Talk about that experience and then talk about the trail team camp that you guys did out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was actually supposed to be kind of two separate things. It was actually supposed to be kind of two separate things. So there was planning on having the camp in Germany just to get some Europe exposure. And then they were talking with the World Mount Running Association trying to find what race we could get a Team USA to and would work out, and then it happened to be the World Mount Running Cup final. It was like the weekend right after that Germany camp. So they ended up kind of stacking them. So the races were in Slovenia and it was two days. The first day was not a VK but a vertical. It was like 10K vertical and then the next day was classic up-down course, about I can't remember exactly how far it was, maybe 10K with 2,000 feet, so pretty fast. But it was really.
Speaker 2:Honestly, my whole goal, my entire life has been to represent the United States. It's always meant the world to me. I'm a huge patriot of my country, I love being from here and I love being able to represent it, and so I thought it was absolutely a wonderful opportunity that he gave kind of people who weren't on the world team this year but will be at some point. You know, let's get these people out and race in Europe and kind of give them that Cause maybe you suck and you learn. Oh wow, these were hard for me in Europe. So now when I'm actually on a world team, I know how to, you know, adjust these things and figure it out. So it was really cool to sort of get that exposure and learning experience.
Speaker 2:Um, and it was kind of it was interesting. For sure it was definitely the opposite kind of races that I've been training for this whole year. They were lightning fast. Um, you know, we had the whole run together Kenya team there and I mean it was just basically Africa versus the world in those races and they were out fast. So it was really interesting to sort of spin the legs a little bit faster than I'm normally used to.
Speaker 1:And when you see how that feels sorry to interrupt you when you've raced broken arrow or even this race. How close to the line have you stood near Patrick and Phil Amon? Because I raced them at what was it? It was like Cirque Brighton last year and that gun went off and I was like holy shit, they are so fast. It's stupid how good they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not fun to race them. Yeah, broken, broken arrow, I actually went out with philemon for about a mile, just to sort of see what that pace felt like, and it didn't feel good, did it?
Speaker 1:it's fast, it's really hard uh, so what did you like? What was your takeaway from the opportunity? Like, what did you think? Uh, obviously you probably learned a ton getting to race, those style of races. It's a completely different ball game, completely different vibe. But just the weekend of being there, um, like what did you take away from it? Like, was it a super amazing experience? Like, were you excited about your result? Were you bummed about your result? Like mixed feelings. Like obviously everything in your age bracket Now, everything you do is a learning experience. So it's like, what are your takeaways from stuff like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my first race um didn't quite go how I wanted it to, but it was okay. I felt like it was fine. You know, um, I think I just I think I had a little bit too big of a week in the Germany camp to be honest, little bit too big of a week in the Germany camp, to be honest, than I would have liked before a race weekend. So I think I was a little bit more tired than I wanted to be. So I kind of struggled that first day. Second day I came in really wanting to make up for that and honestly, the second day went even worse.
Speaker 2:I just didn't have the legs felt terrible, but it was really interesting, I don't know. It's really interesting to see how hard it is to go back and forth. I think you do it once and you're like, oh, that was easy, I can do that, but once you do it a bunch of times throughout the year really does add up on you, and so I think I've definitely learned for the future that I'm not going to jump back and forth. I'm going to do maybe a month block, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So stay out there and do it yeah yeah, exactly yeah, and I think that would make a massive difference in performance. I think another thing is just learning to be really adaptable, you know, because I think some people are a little bit too systematic and when you go overseas, your whole system is gone. You know there's no food that you're used to, there's no restaurant Like everywhere in Europe is closed at like 8 pm or earlier, so you can't go to a grocery store when you get somewhere at 10. You know everything's closed, so there's just kind of little things. We arrived, we traveled the day before the race from Germany to Slovenia, so we traveled Friday, got there at about 8 pm and nothing was open, so we pretty much all had Saturday morning, had our high carb drink mix for breakfast and whatever snacks we had lying around, so none of us had a true good breakfast, you know. And so I think those are really good learning opportunities to sort of capitalize on and not make the same mistakes again.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I feel your pain. Man, I was going through this this morning. I just booked a race on the 20th uh, we were talking about that before but I booked the cheap hotel, trying to be trying to be cheap. Dude, no coffee maker, and you I was laughing about this because you get you get kind of stuck in your ways. But like dude, you don't have coffee, what are you gonna do without coffee? This is terrible. I gotta have coffee. And then it's like, oh, they don't have coffee, what are you going to do?
Speaker 1:without coffee. This is terrible, I gotta have coffee. And then it's like, oh, they don't have a mini fridge. Like fuck, what am I going to do for food? Like I gotta, I wanna cook. I don't want to eat shit all week, you know. And it's like you think about those little things and it's like, yeah, I mean I'm less adaptable because I feel like I'm, you know, a curmudgeon and I'm old, but like you young guys, it's easier to be adaptable, I feel on that yeah definitely.
Speaker 2:It's one of the things that is definitely hard yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like dude, I drove out the Targi two weekends ago. I brought my espresso machine with me. Yeah, I swear to god, like you, do what you have to do listen, man, I'm stuck in my ways.
Speaker 1:I like to have you know, I like my, my. You know your conveniences. It is what it is, um, but yeah, all right. So that's interesting. I didn't know you did the block of training like you guys did your camp before slovenia I thought the slovenia was first. Then you stayed out there and then went to Germany and did the, uh, did the camp. So you had a whole big kind of a week exploring Germany under your legs. Then, uh, before a race that I had not really done before.
Speaker 2:So we flew in maybe Monday or in Germany Tuesday through Friday and then raced Saturday and Sunday in Slovenia, and it wasn't super easy travel. You could either take a flight for like 300 bucks or take the train. So we took the train, me and Abby and Oakley took the train, me and abby and oakley took the train and that was about a 10 hour journey. So that's not easy the day before a race. That's terrible, yeah. So it was just kind of it was either that or we flew with everybody else and got there at 10 pm and so it was just kind of this weird limbo like I don't know, I definitely would not do a training camp right before a race like that again. And it wasn't their intention either, I must add. They had planned the Germany camp for a year and just in the last couple of months the WMRA came out and said hey, you guys should come to this race.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 2:Ended up being yeah, and if the opportunity presents itself, you can't.
Speaker 1:You can't say no, um, what? What is it like in the camp with these guys Like, is it cause these are all extremely talented athletes Everybody like is there? Does everybody push hard on these runs? Are they taking it easy? Like, is anybody showing off? Like, what's what's the deal there? Like, are you guys all keeping it pretty chill? Or is it like, especially with guys like, is it become a like? I don't know, do you guys push like? What's that? What's that all about?
Speaker 2:it's funny because I think at least in germany, specifically the first day, we maybe pushed a little bit. Um, the guys did, and then me and jared. After that we're like okay, that's it. We're going easy the rest of the week. So I think it's pretty cool. We generally keep it pretty chill and together for the most part. Obviously there's times where you let your ego get the best of you and you sort of half-step each other, but I would say for the most part it's a really healthy group where we're not ego and we kind of enjoy just hanging out together and running.
Speaker 1:It's cool, cool, very cool man. All right, so let's go back. One thing I wanted to, I glossed over and I didn't get into was broken arrow. I feel like that was one of outside of. Skyrunner was an amazing performance years. This year at the 23 K you took a top 20 finish. Um, I feel like this one was just like really special for you. Another like weight off your shoulder kind of moment, like maybe you describe it and talk about how the race unfolded for you, your finish and kind of what that did for you yeah, so broken arrow has always been.
Speaker 2:it was like my first pretty much real mountain race I ever did um. So right out of high school I finished my track season and two weeks later I ran the Broken Arrow 23K a few years ago. So it's always kind of been a really good way of measuring my improvement and just such a cool race and a cool environment and feeling. So it's always mattered a lot to me to perform there in a cool environment and feeling so. It's always mattered a lot to me to perform there. And last year I really had a disappointing performance. It was like I felt like I ran okay and I did terrible, which is kind of the worst combination. You know, when you do bad and you felt bad, it's one thing, but when you feel pretty good and you do bad, it's like you have no answers.
Speaker 1:You're like oh shit, what did I do?
Speaker 2:Right, so this year I really came into it almost needing to do good, because just to again, like I said earlier, prove to myself that I can do it and that I am a big dog in the sport, or whatever you want to say and sort of just went into this race with zero expectations, no race plan, just said I'm just going to let myself race, no matter who's next to me doesn't matter, I'm just going to run it as hard as I can and see how it goes. As hard as I can and see how it goes. And it ended up just going really really good. Like I felt good. I was mentally in the right place. Physically I felt strong enough to run really well. I was even at a point where, like I ran pretty much as hard as I could to the top and then had the legs to push the downhill and really hammer it. Like I was running as hard as I could to the top and then had the legs to push the downhill and really hammer it. I was running as hard as I can.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a fitness problem, it was kind of a racing problem, which was really amazing, and I didn't really know how good I was doing. I guess, like I knew I was up there and I could see guys that I normally don't see, but I didn't know kind of where my time would be or what position I was. And when I came through the finish and it was like right at two hours, I just couldn't even believe it, because when I was a kid when I came to this race, two hours was top 10. And that was like the fast guy, like two hours was sixth or seventh place back then. Yeah, and so that was sort of always the line for me at Broken Arrow was I need to get to two hours, and last year and two 18 or something, and this year and two hours and 50 seconds.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you took almost 20 minutes off your time. Dude, that's bananas. All right, so for any no, no, I'm just like making a point of this, like for any person listening to this. They think you can't improve like, and especially going from like. You're already good and then you were able to do that Like. That's amazing, dude.
Speaker 1:You should be so proud of yourself for that, you know like if someone's like thinking about oh, I need to find five minutes on a course or four minutes or whatever. Like dude you found almost 20 minutes my. God yeah.
Speaker 2:Over a minute per mile faster. That's crazy, yeah. And so, yeah, it was honestly just one of those moments and I even talked to my coach dad before the race or even kind of before the season, just said you know, I need something. I don't care if I have one good race this year and I suck the rest, I just want like something to go off of, to know how good I can be. And then Broken Arrow was exactly that Like it was just such an amazing race and opportunity and like to run that much you know 20 minutes nearly faster than the year before, it's just stupid. So it was, it was honestly. I like there's no words to describe how good of a feeling it was for me.
Speaker 1:Did you write down all your stuff? Like are you guys like cause, like that's the thing, like everything from nutrition to hydration, like do you write down exactly what you did so you can rep, like continue to replicate, or yeah, yeah, so I I know exactly like the fueling plan on that and hydration.
Speaker 2:But what's crazy is I was really not um super strict with myself that week and the week before um before we had that trail team camp in Grand Lake and I'd had a bigger week. It was low intensity but maybe 60 mile week, which is on the bigger side for me. I don't really do high mileage. And then I raced the VK on Friday and then that probably was a 10 or 11 mile day for me, because I ran up and then ran down and then Joe asked me to cool down and obviously as a huge fan, I was like I can't say no.
Speaker 1:Joe asked you to cool down. You cool down.
Speaker 2:You cool down. So I went and did three or four miles with him, so it was probably like a 10-ish mile day two days before the race, which I would never do normally. Normally, I'm pretty on the softer side, so to feel maybe not perfect, and then do that. I was just, oh man, so cool.
Speaker 1:How did things change for you? A little bit, you don't have to go super deep into your dad gave me some inside baseball when I saw him the other day. Obviously some brands approached you and you had some conversations like has that, how has that like changed your why and your approach to the sport? And all the different things like is that obviously like put you on cloud nine? Like how has that kind of changed confidence as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, it definitely made my confidence really high um, I think almost too high because I got a little greedy with racing, if that makes sense. I was like I just want to race every week now and just keep these performances on and on, and on, you know, and then I really just I think I overdid it a little bit because I didn't get a chance to. I never really performed quite that good since, I think, because I got a little greedy and was just like I need another performance like that. You know, trying to get that high again. Yeah, but in terms of brands, it really did launch my name onto the market a little bit, which was really cool to see.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know what I'm allowed to say or not to say. I'm not really having any super serious conversations yet. Obviously the silly season hasn't fully started yet, but I've been. It was just so cool. I finished the race and Ben Blankenship from Mount DeCoste comes up to me and is like hey, man, great job today. And then later Esther from North face kind of gives me a nod you know.
Speaker 2:So it was just cool to not only like give myself the proof, but sort of see other people recognize it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, dude, I love it. We'll keep it at that. I don't want to go too far inside baseball, but we'll talk more offline. So, alright, with all the success and with everything that's changed a little bit, have your whys changed? Are you still the same, benjamin, from the beginning of the season or are you a little bit different? Is your why still your why?
Speaker 2:I would say yes to some extent. I would say the why has not changed, but the when has. Okay, if that makes sense. I think my why is, first and foremost, to be able to do my job, to be running and that just sounds like a dream, it doesn't even sound real almost but beyond that is to reach the top sport, become the best. Um, and I think that hasn't changed, but it feels a lot closer than it did before. So before it was maybe, yeah, you know, wait for my prime, late twenties kind of thing. But I think it's moved forward. Maybe a few years, five years, maybe, yeah, wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:I love seeing dude. I just love the success story. It's like you keep trying. I know how hard you work, you know, and like you keep pushing and pushing, and pushing, like we do. We've had plenty of conversations when I was injured back in like late spring. We'd bump into each other on the trails all the time. I feel like on every week, chat with you, um, but just like I don't know. It's been cool to see your progression and you just like continue to like try and continue to break through, break through, break through, and it's starting to happen, which is kind of kind of freaking cool like witness. Um, so you said 2026, you're obviously Skyrunner. There's that dilemma a little bit with 23 versus you 23. What else do you think you're going to try and get into for next year? Like how to? How have things like changed? But obviously you go back to broken arrow. Is there any other races you want to do, like golden trail and stuff like that?
Speaker 2:I think next year it's sort of not fully kind of there's a few things in the air. Um, broken arrow, I think I kind of always want to do, unless minotaur kind of works out. Um, I want to do mount marathon next year. Um, I really want to.
Speaker 2:I think we're talking about maybe jumping into a UTMB 50K and trying to qualify for OCC and then a few Sky Races, and I think next year the goal is going to be to be a lot more intentional and not just say yes to every single race, if that makes sense. So maybe I'm racing this race and that's my goal. And if I do any races between now and then it's as a buildup into that race. It's not just oh yeah, I want to race that and I want to race that and I want to race that. So I think one thing that isn't super talked about in our sport is that there is a million different things you can do and as you get more progressive into the sport and more competitive, it is maybe smart to sort of control that and actually have some intention with performing at certain races.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think you're so young man, like that's the thing is, like you're going to have a million years to do all these different things. So you have, you'll have, you have plenty of time to do it. You're not old Like me. You got plenty of time, um, but in all seriousness, like you, like you know, getting into Mount marathon or doing a UTMB race, like it's not, like you'll have plenty of time to do all of these things and you know, so you'll be able to get to it, which is good.
Speaker 1:And the other thing too, I don't think people understand or realize. It's like dude, it's freaking hard. Like you can only peak for what? Two or three races a year, if you're lucky, like if that. So everything else is just based off of fitness and trying to do like good work, but you're never actually peaking. Peaking for every race like you wouldn't be able to do. You just have to stay at a relatively high fitness level, which is is hard man.
Speaker 1:You get to the end of the season and you're cooked, and I just see that happening to a lot of people now. Like I know you said to me and this is fine, like we can talk about on the podcast, like this this year. You're going to sit out from pikes because you know you're prioritizing other priorities and I think that's really smart and I think it's a very grown up decision to you know pick and choose the battles because you know something like a. You know world Skyrunner series do you? 23 final, I think, is a lot more important for your career and you know, when it comes to you know your trajectory and everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah, thank you. I think it is something that's interesting. For sure. I uh, I don't know why I'm kind of somebody who has to learn from doing it Like I. I don't know why I just have to somebody who has to learn from doing it. I don't know why I just have to go through it to learn it rather than actually just thinking it through if that makes sense. But, yeah, definitely not an easy decision. Pikes Peak is my favorite race. I've been pretty much tired since july, like I haven't felt quite right since july. I've just felt smoked. Um, so you've been traveling a lot dude traveling and racing every weekend and not ever letting myself like listening to my body and taking a break. So I think I'm gonna really pay attention on taking this time to relax a little bit and then really focus on that U23 Skyrunning final, because it is a lot more. It's better for visibility and a lot more aligned with, kind of where I've put my niche, like you said.
Speaker 1:No, I totally agree with you. When is the Skyrunner final? Is it end of October or beginning? Yeah, october 26th. Nice, I see you get a nice long rest afterwards, dude. You get a good little couple month break and then get back to it and yeah, good for you, man. Nice, long, nice long rest. Um, yeah, man. So I'm trying to think of, like, where we picked off on like some of the some of the conversation, like before we get going, like, has your views changed on anything? Like are you still wanting the Olympics you know the sport to be in the Olympics? Do you still cause you're young enough now, like I was just talking to Ruby Lindquist earlier and it was like, oh, dude, you're young enough that, like, if this becomes an Olympic sport, you'll probably be around to see it. Like I'll be out of the sport long, long, long, uh, before like it becomes an Olympic sport, but you, my friend, might see that happen in your career. Do you still want that to happen? What do you want to see about the trajectory of the sport now?
Speaker 2:It's interesting because me and Andy actually had this conversation. We did a random spontaneous VK double and we were taking the lift down and we were talking about. I asked him what he thought because I thought he would know most importantly about out of anyone. And what he said really changed my mind, cause I've always thought I I want trail in the Olympics because I think at least there should be some form of off-road running in the Olympics, at least if it's cross-country.
Speaker 2:And he brought up an interesting point that for trail to be in the Olympics it will probably end up being some simple down version sort of what happened with Schemo Yep, you know where there are two-hour Schemo races and in the Olympics it's going to be like six minutes or something. And so I think the way that he described that made it sound less interesting to me. I think if, for example, golden Trail could prove to them that the flower thing works, I think that actually might be a nice, good way to do it. But I do worry that it might end up being some really, really short, simplified version, maybe like a Pepe's Face Off kind of thing, which would be really cool, although maybe doesn't include me because I don't think that's my where I'm in you know, right, right, it's a different discipline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like if you're a vertical schema racer like Cam, for instance, cam Smith, it is so amazing. And Cam Smith, he impresses me so much because his best discipline is probably the vertical, but yet he's still probably going to make the Olympics if the U? S makes it, because he's so good at everything that he's made himself like that kind of guy, whereas, like a lot of people are specialists. Man, you know, and if you're not a good client not if you're not a good climber you could be a great climber. But if you're not like disciplined, like joe gray, like as a, like joe gray's jam is climbing um, or like christian allen you know somebody like that then yeah, the odds of making it are damn near impossible.
Speaker 1:You you know, yeah, Especially for how many spots like.
Speaker 2:Right, especially Canada, and I don't think sorry.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say Canada would. If Alex Ricard's still in the picture, canada would spank our ass, dude. So what were you saying? Sorry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it doesn't obviously that sound like it doesn't have to be me in it for the Olympics to be in trail. You know, I think that made it sound like it a little bit like I don't want trail in the Olympics unless I'm a part of it, um, but I'm just, I just worry that it maybe won't um, represent trail in a good way and then it won't even be worth it. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, I totally agree with you. I'm in the same spot, man. I think I've skewed more 60, 40,. I'm in the same spot, man. I think I've skewed more 60-40, like 60-no, 40-yes, In recent times I used to be very vehemently against it because I think of it as in dollars and cents.
Speaker 1:Right, Most Olympians, 99% of Olympians, don't make money from the Olympics other than, yes, you'll get some sponsorships here and there, but a lot of them are school teachers and completely normal people and you don't make any money off the TV rights. You don't make this, you don't make that. And I just always like that never sat right with me, Like I was like all right, well, if we're going to have, you know, the sport be blasted all over television, like the athletes who already don't have long careers, in my opinion should, should make something. They should get something for all their hard work and discipline and everything they put into it. So I've always been like kind of split on it. But that said, with the Olympics it also attracts more non-endemic sponsors, which also filters money into the sport that funds a lot of things.
Speaker 1:I still think we're so far away from it because we don't even have an out of season testing pool, Like it's still the Wild West anyway. So it's going to be like you're you'll probably be, I don't know. So it's going to be like you're you'll probably be, I don't know. You might be, like really old in the sport by the time it even becomes a thing Like I don't see 20, like in the 2030s, like it could be much longer than that. What do I know? You know it'd be interesting. It's crazy, though. What do you think, like now that you've kind of competed in Europe a bunch and you've competed in Asia, you've competed all over the world at this point, and you're so young, what do you see of the sport? It seems like in America it's gotten so much more competitive. Do you see that take as a worldwide thing as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it is interesting. I would say Europe is always just stupid competitive because they have a lot more mountain sports and a lot of those guys will do trail races for fun. So you have a lot more random, really good skiers who will just jump into a trail race and whoop everyone's ass, and no one's ever heard of them to be sponsored or be a pro runner. They just do it for fun, to stay in shape for skiing, where I think America doesn't quite have that yet, but it also really depends on the place Like Japan has a crazy good running crowd and I think it is mostly road but trails is definitely growing there pretty quick.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, though, because although America is growing so much, it's still it doesn't even compare to Europe racing. I think the just the fans alone are so massive, but the depth it is crazy to see, especially kind of relating to the trail team in America. Like when you look at our list of people, like our world team this year, the classic and the vertical are like maybe half or three quarters trail team. Uh yeah, I don't know what the word is.
Speaker 1:Alumni, associated alumni yeah, Christian, I mean Anna Gibson, gibson, I mean you look at most of them, uh, sydney, peterson, taylor, stack, there's quite a few that are, have an affiliation or have had an affiliation with, uh, you know, with that team, which is kind of crazy. Um, what do you think? You think we're gonna, you think we're gonna meddle at worlds? Like I think we're sending a squad and just from like everybody I've spoken to, like mason seems a little tired, but I think if he gets some rest he'll be in good shape, he'll be ready to go. Cam, I think, is very smart in his peaking, like you could see, from alta to a basin, that progression already. Like I think cam will be in insane shape by the time like it comes. Like I think he'll peak for it.
Speaker 1:Um, and then on the women's side too, courtney just threw herself another race this weekend, got second at a basin, and I think that's a good indicator of like this. This is going to be a team, at least for the mountain classic. Like I think that's the team I'm closest to as far as like people I'm friends with, but it seems like that's the team that, and maybe maybe short trail too, maybe the like, maybe they medal as well, but I could see the mountain classic on, especially on the women's side, like uh, and then I would be disappointed if the men's side did not get a medal too, because like killers, dude, we're sending, we're sending killers.
Speaker 2:It's crazy yeah yeah, I think our women's classic team is incredible and our men's short trail is kind of our two best team and jim's doing along.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, it's true I think adam's on that team too, so it'll be jim adam. Who else was picked up on that team? Oh no, seth is on the marathon team too, like short trail. So like dude you gotta think about, like that's michelino seth, like we're sending, basically for the short trail team, all former broken arrow, 46k winners uh so seth has won michelino's one, ryan becker's third, david sinclair, who's a god amongst men like he's, you know, it's that yeah I?
Speaker 2:uh, he's still racing, it, isn't he, or no?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I have no idea. Uh, there's a few people floating around in there that I don't know are gonna take the tickets but like are gonna be like locked in because, you gotta remember, eli had a rough race at ccc, so yeah, I don't know, and I think taber's on that team too. So it's hard to say. You know, I would expect them to be there, but as far as like, what it matters to them or like you know, some people are really locked in and it seems like a lot are. Uh, vertical team too, dude, but christian and joe, yeah, yeah, that's killer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see what happens there, but I think, um, you know, if they show up, oh, dude taylor stack as well. Man on that, on that up down team like dirty, just dirty dog david norris david norris yeah, yeah, got a.
Speaker 2:We got a killer team going. I think it's crazy Cause I feel it used to be a lot not easy, but easier to make teams, and this year it was just so deep?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was killer's row. Absolutely. Are you gonna? So? This was actually a question I forgot to ask you earlier in the podcast, are you so? Next year, obviously it will be us mountain running championship, probably either in the Northeast or probably at a Cirque series race. It seems like it'll be one of those two. It'll probably be announced soon rather than later after worlds, but following year will be a selection year. You'll be what? 25 at that point. So you'll be right in your prime Like are you going to go? Are you probably going to go for it? Try to get yourself a spot on the team, yeah probably short trail would be my best chance.
Speaker 2:I think the classic is a little fast um faster than I like and I think that 46k 50k distance just sounds really nice. So gonna experiment with it at a utmb race next year, see how that distance feels, and then should be pretty solid for a solid 50k the year after. Set yourself up for it, yeah, dude, and then it should be pretty solid for a solid 50K the year after, set yourself up for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, and it's going to be in South Africa too, which is a little, that's bananas.
Speaker 2:Kind of gnarly yeah probably super techie terrain.
Speaker 1:There's like cobras. They got cobras down there. They got all kinds of shit on that course.
Speaker 2:It's very exposed there too, so I think it'll probably be a hotter time.
Speaker 1:Yeah too, so I think it'll probably be a hotter, hotter time. Yeah, yeah, interesting, I don't know. I always feel like worlds should be in a mountain terrain, like in, like the alps of some kind or something like that you know, but it's too bad. We'll never get one because of our wilderness situation, which I get it. We got to protect our wilderness, but still it would be kind of dope if we had something cool like that, you know, yeah yeah, I think america needs to figure that out.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think they will because nobody in the government cares, but I think they should uh figure out similar racing opportunities and events, especially like I feel like trail running is so good because I think it's one sport that it's left better than it's uh was found, you know what I mean where? Yeah, maybe if you get a crazy mountain bike race, it might not look so good afterwards.
Speaker 1:It's true ruts, ruts up everything, ruts all our trails and stuff. Yeah, I was cursing the mountain bikers recently. She's like, between the rain we've been getting in the springs and the mountain bikers, I'm like, dude, our trails are in rough shape, yeah well, not good, not good, but I don't even know.
Speaker 2:I've even been around in months so where was I recently?
Speaker 1:I think I don't know? It was like last sat, friday, it was friday. I was running around like by my house, like red rocks, open space, and I was like man, these trails are chewed up, dude, even dude, even. I did a ride the other day I think it was like maybe it was sunday um, on, just like on high drive and high drives all washed out in a lot of sections. Yeah, that was from the rain. Yeah, the brain has been. I mean, it's good, we don't, you know fires are bad and we don't want that, but like, still, yeah, it's been doing some damage to our trails, like we're just not equipped for this level of rain, I guess I wonder if it'll be a snowy year.
Speaker 1:I hope not I always laugh because, like I know, everybody like wants there to be a ton of snow. I'm like dude, we don't hold enough snowpack anyway to ski. And it's like what the fuck are we gonna ski?
Speaker 2:you know, so it's like ice I'd rather, exactly.
Speaker 1:I'd rather just be like all right, low snow year, so that way I'm gonna get a ton of hate for that, but I'd rather it be a low snow year so I could run around, at least you know, year round.
Speaker 2:No, I'll stay. I'll stay on with you on that one. That's right, I'll take the hate as well.
Speaker 1:Dry trails yeah, it's too bad. We need to. Like I said, I kind of hinted on this earlier we need. I don't know if anybody wants to put in a bid for a ski resort somewhere in Colorado Springs. It'd be dope.
Speaker 2:There used to be one at the Broadmoor.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I know you could see like the lines of it and stuff like that, but it's all private property, man, that's. Another problem is, like you know, strava with the heat maps, like most secrets aren't so secret, and like you try to do stuff and then you get kicked out.
Speaker 2:And I've had quite a issues of like trying to find like really big climbs. Like you're not supposed to be here, buddy, get out a lot of it is owned, yeah you gotta have sneaky ways to get in, or a friend named ace, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, he took me back on that crystal. I shouldn't, I can't, shouldn't put this on the podcast. But like in crystal park, and I was like, dude, are we allowed to be back here? He's like, yeah, they don't care, they're fine, you just run it around crystal park. And I'm like, well, all right, like this is kind of neat, maybe I'll come back here and play around oh, it's so much fun.
Speaker 2:It's my favorite place to drink, oh man.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm gonna go on strava after this and look on the maps again. All right, buddy, I think we got to everything. Dude, wish you the best of luck. Get some sleep, get some rest, get recovered for, uh, october and uh hope you're gonna absolutely crush it. And and yeah, man, it's been. This was always a fun one. I love our, our quarterly, semi-quarterly chats, so appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thanks so much for having me man. I appreciate it Absolutely, buddy.
Speaker 1:Good. I want to thank Benjamin so much for coming on the podcast Great conversation and wishing him the best of luck as he takes on and prepares for the U23 Skyrunner World Series final. Some really cool racing there and I think there's just very technically engaging courses really interested in the Skyrunner Series. Guys, if you're interested in learning more about Benjamin, you can find him on Instagram. The best way is to find him at benjamintsend. Give him a follow. You can find him at benjamintsend. I Nt send um. Give him a follow. Let him know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure he would appreciate, uh, some words of encouragement and, um, some kind words from the listener base. Uh, guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you consume your podcasts. That mean the absolute world, uh, to me, and that's how I can continue to tell these stories of these athletes. It helps our discoverability. It's all good stuff with the ratings and the reviews. It's all good there.
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Speaker 1:I highly suggest checking it out. I think it's already very affordably priced. But use code Steep Stuff Pod. It's going to get you an additional 25% off. I think that should hook you guys up. So, guys, I really appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. Anton episode is going to be dropping in the next few days, just waiting on some photos and stuff to kind of put up. I hope you guys enjoy that one. If you did miss out, you'll be able to catch it on YouTube, spotify and Apple. And yeah, we've got all kinds of good stuff coming down the pipeline next week for Pike's Peak and the following week we are going to be putting out a bunch of stuff for the World Mountain Running Championship, which will be some fun discussion points as well. So thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you guys. Thank you.
