The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#121 - Anton Krupicka
Ever wonder how a mountain runner's motivations evolve over decades in the sport? Anton Krupicka opens up about his remarkable journey from Nebraska ranch kid to ultrarunning legend in this captivating conversation recorded live at La Sportiva Boulder.
Anton shares the origin story of his running career, from his science scholarship at Colorado College to his early days working at Colorado Running Company and running with the legendary Matt Carpenter. He reflects candidly on how serendipity shaped his path—when a missed email about the Pikes Peak Marathon entry led him to run and win Leadville 100 at just 23 years old.
The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as Anton discusses the controversial Grand Teton FKT situation involving Michelino Sunseri. "For me, FKTs have always been about developing a relationship with a place and putting in the time to appreciate it," Anton explains, offering nuanced perspectives on the evolving ethics of mountain records in an increasingly regulated landscape.
Perhaps most revealing is Anton's reflection on how his motivations have transformed. "Ten years ago, I wanted to prove myself and be on top of the sport," he admits. "Now it's completely different—all my motivations are intrinsic." Currently recovering from an Achilles injury at 42, he shares surprising insights about finding his greatest fitness after 40 and his transition from competitive athlete to product developer with La Sportiva.
For aspiring mountain runners, Anton offers wisdom earned through decades of highs and lows: "Performance is necessary, but it's important to have a value structure you're committed to. Figure out who you are and remain true to yourself."
What makes this conversation special is Anton's willingness to look back with honesty and forward with curiosity. Have you found your motivations shifting as you've grown in your running journey? Listen now and join the conversation.
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Welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I'm so excited to bring you guys an episode with Anton Karpicka. This episode was part of a live podcast Tony and I did just last Thursday, september the 11th, at the Las Partiva Boulder store for a live podcast event and a group run. It was a super fun night and hope you guys enjoy this one. All kinds of really good stuff in there. I do want to give just a heads up.
Speaker 1:When we get to the audience questions, a few of them are kind of muted. They're a little bit low. So if you get to that point, just go ahead and crank up your volume so you can hear the audience question. I didn't want to voice over it because I wanted to keep the original person's question there and the original person's voice as well. So just crank that volume up and you'll listen intently and you'll be able to catch it. And Anton gives some really interesting answers to these questions, so definitely a part that you're not going to want to miss. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode. It was an absolute honor of mine. It was so excited to finally have Tony on the podcast. I'm hoping this is the first of many. So, without further ado, anton Kropichka Time. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live, tony. Welcome to the steep stuff podcast. How's it going, man?
Speaker 2:good, uh, thanks for having me, james. Um, yeah, I've, uh, I've listened to a few episodes and, yeah, appreciate what you're doing for the sport I appreciate the kindness, man.
Speaker 1:I uh, yeah, this is this one's kind of an honor, so it's exciting to finally have you on and have a chat and it's going to be a good night. So, all right, let's dive into it. Um, one of the things I want to get into right away that I was super stoked on. I know you have obviously had a little bit less running this summer, so you've been getting into one of the things you just did. What we kind of talked about offline was the the finger fanger on the bigger banger buttress. Maybe. Uh, cause we're. You know, ace and I are from Colorado Springs. You had lived in Colorado Springs at one point in time. Maybe let's talk about that route and kind of get into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess. I mean I've been a climber for well. I started climbing when I was going to school down in the Springs. Climber, for well, I started climbing when I was going to school down in the springs, uh, but what happened this summer was I got injured, um that. That particular route sorry, I haven't been running much, uh, but that particular route is uh. I've never climbed on pike's peak, even though I lived down there for seven or eight years. There's nothing particularly special about that zone, it's not like some lifetime tickler stroud, it's just uh. It was cool, like 20 years later, to come back and climb in a place where I started climbing. But I never climbed on pikes peak itself, uh, but that has been called the most classic five nine in the state, which is sort of a joke, because it's definitely not five nine.
Speaker 2:Um it's just sandbagged horribly, but uh, yeah, it was just a fun day out with a buddy um climbing an Alpine. Uh, I haven't been able to get in the Alpine much the last six weeks because of my Achilles tendon, so with the Pikes Peak toll road it was a very short approach, but still be above tree line and have a fun day out, yeah dude.
Speaker 1:I love it. So I wanted to use that as like a preface to kind of get into Colorado Springs, because it's one of the things I really like. Topic wise I wanted to talk to you about. You lived in Colorado Springs for eight years, both as an undergrad and then a little bit after you worked at Colorado Running Company. Can you talk about your time there a little bit and then specifically talk about your time at CRC RC?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So I went to school at Colorado college. Uh, I was fortunate. I grew up in Nebraska. I was fortunate enough to get a science scholarship there. Otherwise I probably would have ended up going to school in the Midwest Um, but I was very excited about that because I already knew about the incline club. Uh, matt Carpenter was already someone I'd been looking up to for a number of years in high school and I moved there to go to school but also to become a mountain runner. So the Pikes Peak region will always be where I became a mountain runner and hold a soft spot in my heart as a result.
Speaker 2:But then, post-college, I ran cross country and track in college very mediocre, uh. But then post-college I ran cross country and dragon college is very mediocre. No results to speak of, um. But post-college I ended up working at the Colorado running company. Um, then this has been in the two thousands. Um, it was just across the street from CC. Uh, on the other side of cash, the pudra, and uh, yeah, I only worked there. I don't know four months, know four months, five months, oh, I didn't realize aced in our audience, works there, so that's why I was like it's a special place for me it was from.
Speaker 2:Let me see it was. Yeah, it was, so this would have been. I qualified for western states in 2008. The race didn't happen that year because of forest fires, but I was training in colorado springs and, uh, yeah, I worked at the crc from january until like june may or june, yeah and then I moved to leadville actually, so, yeah, five months yeah, very cool, very cool.
Speaker 1:All right, so colorado springs synonymous with mac carpenter? Was it a little weird for you, like I know this is like kind of a strange question, but like it's like a meet your heroes kind of moment, like when you go to colorado springs, you want to be a mountain runner at the highest level. Mac carpenter at the time is is the mountain runner at the highest level, probably the most famous one on the planet at that time. What was that like? Getting to meet him and just build a relationship with?
Speaker 2:him, huh, um, well it is. It is sort of the meet your heroes thing where, like, you have someone sort of this archetype in your mind and you project all these qualities onto them and then you meet them and they end up they're an individual and they are who they are had him like photos of him like pasted to my train logs when I was growing up in high school. You know, uh, and I ran with the incline club some and Matt and I never we never became close friends or anything, but definitely acquaintances definitely ran together. You know, plenty of times. I couldn't put a number on it, but I remember when I ran Leadville for the first time in 2006,. He was encouraging of me leading up to the race and then was congratulatory of me after the race. We were sending emails back and forth and I would go to Incline Club runs and the end of the season parties and stuff and I don't know.
Speaker 2:It was cool to have that validation from someone that I'd looked up to for so long. But then also you achieve something in the sport and you start to like grow past that, I guess. Um, so I've always really respected everything Matt's done in the sport, uh, I guess. One final little thing my introduction at La Sportiva. I wore Sportiva's in the 2006 Leadville, bought them myself, but then after that race, unbeknownst to me, matt gave the manager of the mountain running team at Sportiva at the time, buzz Burrell, like my contacts so Buzz could get in touch with me and, you know, offer me, I guess, a sponsorship, which was very, very minimal at the time. But yeah, so I mean that was a very nice thing to Matt to do, just like to make that connection so interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1:So there's this time in your life. It's really cause you and you told the stories a few times on podcast where you'd you'd applied for the Pikes Peak marathon. You technically, I guess you got in right. They just didn't get the email or something like that? Yeah, exactly yeah. That was the same year you ran Leadville and won the first time, right? Yes, Yep.
Speaker 1:That's what I think is like around the same weekend Like what do you? Do you ever think about that? Like like, would your life have gone? A different cause, that was also. Matt won that year too in the marathon.
Speaker 2:It won the marathon point, maybe even the next year. If I'd run pikes that year, if I'd run pikes that year, I I would have done poorly I'm not poorly, but it would have been mediocre. I maybe would have just like broken four hours or something. But you know, I wasn't going to beat matt, I just wasn't that kind of runner. Um, I don't think I ever became that kind of runner.
Speaker 2:Uh, pikes is a very runnable mountain and I've never, I've never broken 230 for the ascent. You know, I mean, that's always during training. I've never done the race, uh, but uh, yeah, I guess I haven't thought about that as like a sliding doors moment or anything. Um, it was cool though that, like I don't, I was not in the headspace to run 100 miles at that point yet in my life. I was only I just turned 23, uh, so it was good to have that sort of serendipity of like not realizing that I had an entry to the race to force me to do this other race.
Speaker 2:I mean, actually, one thing there was so the manager of the CRC at that time, john O'Neill, uh, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. He, he was the one. So I was running like 200 miles a week that summer just crazy, you know. Uh, and John was like dude, just do Leadville. Like're never going to be more fit for a 100-mile race than you are right now. I was in my early 20s. You just don't think that you can run that far, at least I didn't at that point. So it was good to have the push from somebody to. You know it's possible. Humans do it all the time.
Speaker 1:It's interesting when you applied to Pikes. The only reason I asked this question is because and I kind of think about, okay, like maybe cause it's short trail I mean technically it's a marathon Do you think you would have maybe ended up doing more long, like more short trail stuff? Did that ever interest you in that time in your life? Or it was always the longer stuff.
Speaker 2:The short trail stuff definitely interested me, uh, but I don't think I would have found much success at it. So I would have just gravitated to ultras pretty immediately. As a result. As it was, I jumped immediately to the a hundred mile distance, had immediate success, and so that just kind of became my game like right away. But I just think there would have just been like a season delay, basically Cause I mean I think yeah, I won Leadville marathon that year, which isn't nearly as competitive as pikes, but it was an almost a course record. So that was some positive reinforcement. But yeah, I don't think I would have, I don't think I would have like won pikes that year the way that I won leadville. So interesting.
Speaker 1:what are the things you and finna talked about? And I found this to be so fascinating because you kind of brushed on it, uh, in your conversation about matt carpenter and fila and kind of that era of the sport. Could you go a little bit more into that? Because, like I did some digging and tried to find much on the internet, I could not find anything like on Fila having this mountain running team and like Matt Carpenter and that like that era of the sport.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know much either. All of my source for that was literally Runner's World magazine. They used to have like a race section in the in the back and they would cover trail races and, uh, there was an article in there. I probably still have the magazine from the late 90s of uh matt doing a race in mexico on some volcanoes and I remember he was like wearing fila and that and he was wearing fila when he like won mount washington. Um, I don't know. I do know you know, later in the teens, the 2000s, skyrunning kind of had like a rejuvenation period and I got to meet the founders. He was a runner back then Mario Giacometti and Via Fila was just like the sponsor of the whole series. They were the ones who were like flying people to all these races.
Speaker 2:But Matt wasn't the only Skyrunner. There were others, here in Colorado for sure. Uh, danielle Belenji was definitely one Uh, and she won Pikes Peak many times and an illustrious career as an endurance athlete. Uh, but I know that feel is putting a lot of money into it at that point and it was a global thing. It was international If there was races in, yeah, south America, uh, the Himalayas, uh, all over Europe, of course. So I don't know. It was just, it's an Italian company. Um, the Italians like mountain racing for sure. Uh, so it was probably a good fit.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. Did you ever get to see the shoe in the wild, like I always wondered, like what it looked like? Uh, no, no no, I always wanted one.
Speaker 2:but they just like weren't available. Yeah, interesting, all right.
Speaker 1:On the topic of shoes.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, no, I was just gonna say this is all like happening, kind of like right as the internet is becoming a thing, so it's just, there's just not a lot around. You know, this is like early to mid nineties, so yeah, back in the day.
Speaker 1:it's crazy Like the sport has gone through so many metamorphosis, like you've had, like some of these brands come in, like Fila, for instance right and they invest a ton and they have a shoe and they have these athletes going around the world, and then then it'd be still is in America just a very quiet, very grassroots thing, and it's kind of expanded and contracted over the years, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's, I don't know. It's funny Like trail running right now is definitely booming, um, but it's companies kind of go where the eyeballs and interest is.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah. So on the topic of shoes is what I wanted to get to was you told this story, this amazing story of Matt giving your email address basically to buzz, and that kind of got the partnership originally rolling with sportiva. Last march you announced a new long-term partnership with sportiva. Um, can you talk a little bit about as much as you want to get into it, but kind of like what that partnership entails and kind of like the nuts and bolts of some things yeah, it's funny, it's.
Speaker 2:It's been a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know, this is the first year of it, so you're just kind of like figuring out how things work or at least I I'm figuring out how things work. But I mean, I've been an athlete for sportiva for about a dozen years now and it's for me an opportunity to like transition from being an athlete to actually working more directly on both like marketing and athlete stuff and product design and development, which is probably what I'm most excited about, because I've always been a tinkerer with all kinds of gear, not just shoes, um, so that gets me really excited. But also just having, uh, a way to still be a part of the sport and a part of the industry and uh, I mean, it's really it's been my life for the past 20 years, so it's kind of the only skill set I possess anymore, but yeah, so it's something I'm really excited about. And now that it's kind of like more of the off season, summer being the high peak running season, yeah, things will pick up again more with going to trade shows and product development, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:You just got back from Chamonix. Was that kind of a similar thing? I know you've gone there many times, but where you're out there, is it more like a customer engagement but athlete engagement at that point, or is it actually I know in Cortina as well, it's more. That's more on the product side, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean I was in Europe twice this summer once, uh, for La Vereta at the end of June, and after that I actually went to headquarters in Val di Fiume and was had meetings with, uh, both the marketing teams and the product design teams, uh. But I mean, Shamini, the UTMB week has just become like the biggest industry event of the year, uh, globally, I would say. I mean, everyone in North America has to go over there too. And so I mean I was there in the athlete house, uh, I had an entry, uh for the hundred mile race, but got injured about the 1st of August so it wasn't able to race. Um, but yeah, I let a couple community runs, had a media night. Uh, it's just you're doing brand promotion and marketing basically. So, yeah, I would a couple community runs, had a media night. It's just you're doing brand promotion and marketing, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would imagine for you it's probably. It's fun when you're. It's not as fun when you're injured, right, you can't get out and do the things you want to do. Yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like the last week that I want to be in Chamonix. When I'm injured, it's because there's literally 12,000 runners and you know, 20,000 extra people in town. And uh, yeah, I don't know, you roll into the Valley and there's it's just one of the most stunning landscapes anywhere on the planet and it's like, well, I get to sit in the Valley and look at it.
Speaker 2:I can't actually like yeah yeah, I can't like go run in the mountains or anything, so, um, not not the most fun on that, but it's always. I always enjoy, uh, interacting with the Italian side of sportiva and the athletes internationally. There were quite a few international athletes there, um, and that's always a good time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So I've heard. I didn't actually see it. I looked for it and couldn't find it. You were on the live stream a little bit for uh Loverato, is that? Correct yeah, yeah, yeah, a few times what did you think of like commentary and stuff like that? Is that like something that now or uh, it's okay, I don't.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I have my opinions, but, like it's always, I'm not that great at talking, so but uh, mostly it was just like yeah, commentary on the race results. Uh, there's some stuff out on the course actually just sort of trying to give some color on what the athletes might be going through, that kind of thing. Uh, I don't know, it's fine, I'm happy to do it, but it's not like what gets me super excited.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm probably still in that mode where, like, I would actually rather be racing maybe Right, right.
Speaker 1:What's your take on that? Like I mean especially, and you can go as in deep in this as you want, but like media in the sport, like the media is, has exploded man like everybody wants to be on their podcast or have a conversation with you now. Is that, in a sport where it used to be so much more simple and now it's gotten a lot more complicated, like what's your, what's your feeling on that?
Speaker 2:oh, I think the sport itself is still super simple. I mean, media and the sport aren't the same thing. Talking in a microphone isn't the act of running. I think it's cool. I mean, I'm a big nerd, I love the sport. It's fun to talk about it, it's fun to have all, yeah, just this conversation around it. Especially, I mean I I remember I was growing up like the internet was just becoming a thing and I couldn't believe that there were websites to running and you know, you didn't have to like wait for the magazine to come to get race results and that kind of thing. So now for there to be commentary around every race is I don't know. It's yeah, it's exciting and I don't think it like complicates the sport at all.
Speaker 1:It does no-transcript speed goat, because speed goat has changed a little bit, but like canyons or something like that, where now there is it's you know was a major and there's so much more around it and know it's, it's just got a lot of fanfare, which is interesting yeah, I mean it's just.
Speaker 2:I think it's the natural evolution of any sport that uh is on a growth trajectory to have more and more people interested in it and it's gonna, yeah, attract media then yeah all right, let's shift gears.
Speaker 1:I gotta ask you about the grant uh well, I just so. Michelino's a friend of mine, yeah, and I know you interviewed with him a little bit for the project that they were working on. Can you give some insight into some of that conversation, like as to what that was?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I guess it's what I have come to realize with the grand teton, basically through nicolino's uh, let's call it plight now is I have to or you have to like. For me, fkt's used to be this arena where you kind of like chose how to do it, how you, how you wanted to do it. You know, it was just like the style was up to you.
Speaker 2:But now, with something like the grand, uh, there's a governing body called the federal government that is uh saying that there are some, some rules that you have to follow here and that's fine. That's just. That's the way it is. It sucks for Michelino that he was the the one who's catching all the heat, uh, but I think it's really cool this summer that both Jasmine and Jane like went after the women's time on it and both were successful Using call it, the official trail the whole way. I think, uh, using a runner, nicolino as a man, just like setting an example with him, it's just a really unpleasant, it's just like a mean thing to do, basically Like it's the single one runner out is so wild.
Speaker 2:So I mean full disclosure. I've never actually taken the official trail. I've always taken the old climbers trail. Like, I've only ran the grand six, seven, eight times, something like that, um, but each time. So I don't even know what that switchback looks like, cause I've never taken it. Um, that will not be the case anymore. Um, because every rule is a rule, but those rules were not clear prior to Michelino's court case. Like it was everyone I knew was taking that trail. Um, it certainly wasn't closed in any official way. Uh, but yeah, now that should definitely be the case. Anyone somebody in the grand should be taken taking the extra zigzag, and, uh, certainly any record should be done that way.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that kind of leads into the next question that I was going to. It's like we have this old route, if you will, and then a new route. Do you think FKT went about the right way as far as setting like two designated routes?
Speaker 5:now.
Speaker 1:Like Andy's old route that's basically in the past and now it's. I mean I kind of want to say Michelino is the record holder. I think most people would agree with that, but it's contentious, I don't know no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Uh and fkt as I don't know a governing kind of like entity they can't sanction a route that is deemed illegal in court.
Speaker 1:right, right yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah that's uh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's interesting. It's one of the things you had said and I quit not to fully quote you, but it was along the lines of, like Michelino ran this thing like as far as your book and I think my book and I think most people's book, he did it. I think it was like his 44th summit. Yeah, you know, he slept in this like he really did like everything possible to like. What I'm trying to get at is he checked all the boxes as far as like being ready for it and being able to do it and like learned about the zone, did everything right. Can you point to any specific thing, like in your career, where you felt something very similar like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean for sure, last summer the LA freeway here in Boulder is the one that falls in that category. For me it's in my backyard, it's very much in my skill set of being, you know I did in 13 hours which when it came to racing, that was always kind of like my sweet spot, um, somewhere between a hundred K and 130 K, you know, which ends up being about 13 hours usually, um, as opposed to a hundred miles, which I don't know, I have a very mixed record on. But uh, yeah, here the Connell divide, the skyline behind boulder, it's a very complicated route. Uh, a lot of like running on tundra, but then a lot of third class, class three and four on talus boulders, uh, and then some fifth class um like actual exposed consequential scrambling. Uh, that requires rehearsal if you're gonna go fast. So uh, yeah, I mean I've never, you know, I've only done the whole thing in a single push once, but all the sections along the way many, many times over the past decade, and um last summer in particular, uh, I was spending a lot of time in the alpine and I was, I was very proud to like kind of put an exclamation point on my summer of alpine running with this like very I don't know concrete achievement that I could point to as like, oh, this was the culmination of a summer and like a decade's worth of effort up here, um. And I mean to get back to michelino, I think that's part of what's so been so frustrating about his case for me is, for me, that's what fkts have always been is developing a relationship with a place and putting in the time and effort and appreciation of getting to know a place, and michelino clearly did that on the grand teton.
Speaker 2:And when that gets reduced to this, I don't know. I don't think it's even a clickbaity headline. I think it's just a reductive headline of like runner cut switchback, it's just, it's just, it's not accurate. First off, of, like his relationship with that place, uh, and second, it's just I don't know it's offensive, it's, it's just like that's not his attitude towards the sport, uh, it's just so much more nuanced than that and it's really hard to convey that kind of nuance in a headline or even an article. So that's just media, though. I mean, it's just the way it is.
Speaker 1:I can ask you a zone question. So it's a regional, actually region question, because Jackson's different than Rocky Mountain National Park or Grand Teton National Park is different from Rocky Mountain. For, like the Longs record, you can just take any which way you want. More or less right so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, historically, I don't want to condone anything, but yeah, it's. I mean, I don't know, the Teton thing just has me like pretty gun shy about all that stuff. But yeah, historically, the speed record on Longs Peak has been what, to me, is the ideal, which is, like you have this geographic feature go from the trailhead to the summit back as fast as you can under your own power, by any means, and I think it's really cool that that ethic is still in place on Longs, or it seems to be. It seems like it was this summer still. Uh, but for sure the national park service has the power to like shut that down, I guess.
Speaker 1:Um, so yeah, weird, I just find it so like it makes me scratch my head.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a lot of historical trails but. I mean there's a historical trail on the grand teton too, so I don't know it's uh, I mean you're taking this old power line, cut that, um, like is maintained, like rangers like clear deadfall off of it. Um, and then jim's grove, which is a trail like not many people know about but like there's signs for it and it's way more direct, and then you are like cutting across kind of talus and tundra above tree line, but um, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean, and to one final thought on that, like jenny lake and grantee town national park, anyone can just go walk around like off trail and like no one cares.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know, if that's true. I mean there's, there's always like zones where it's like I stay on the trail here, like you know, shouldn't be trampling wildflowers and stuff, but that's I mean if we're really going to get in. That's what's so frustrating about the old climbers trail on the grand is. It was a trail. Yeah, yeah, you weren't just like trampling through like groves of, you know, meadows of wildflowers. So I don't know, but that's the way it is Interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a weird time, weird time, um, all right, so I want to get into some of the things, like we kind of brush on it a little bit earlier in the beginning of the conversation. Obviously, you've been dealing with through some injury and it's gotten you on the bike and it's gotten you climbing a bunch outside of, um, uh, where we're talking, the route on pikes that we were talking about earlier. What else can you point to this summer that you've been kind of excited about?
Speaker 2:oh man, this is a terrible question because this is like what I'm like, like trying to not think about for the past month.
Speaker 2:I, I don't know that's. The thing is like, summer is always this season where I feel like this is where you do things, is where you get things done, and the high Alpine is open in a very like light and fast and minimal style. Obviously you can go up there in the winter, but it's a totally different world, um. So, yeah, I don't feel proud of anything this summer. I had two really good months of running where I was getting I got really fit again.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, at the end of July I felt like I was as fit as I was last year, which I look back on and think is kind of being like the most fit I've ever been, uh, but then my Achilles flared up and haven't run a step, yeah, for the past month and a half now. Um, at least not have any real kind of running, uh. So, yeah, it's just been rehabbing the Achilles and trying to stay sane, with some cycling and some climbing, uh. But no, the last couple of years I've been like all in on running again, like I like my season last year I was really happy with and it's kind of re stoked, kind of like my, my, my fire for competitive running and being able to like pursue some projects that had been on the back burner for a long time because of injury and not not just injury, but because I've kind of felt like I didn't have the fitness anymore. And last year, like showed me and this year, honestly, before I got hurt that now it's still there, if I can just like stay healthy.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, being fit and understanding, like, okay, now that I'm over 40, and you know, still having this level of fitness and continuing to grow and develop, like has that redefined? Like aging for you? Like, do you look at completely differently?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, a little bit, like I said when I so I turned 40 a couple years ago and I remember I was running on longs and I got within like a couple minutes of my best at that time, my best time and I was like, oh, that's pretty good. And I was like cool. And then, like the next year, in 2020, or that was my 43 and 23. And I was like I ran at the same time as I did the year before and I was like, oh, this is just like where I'm at now and like, if I'm not slowing down, like that's the same as improving past age 40. But uh, yeah, last year, when I was like definitely my most fit for running the mountains, yeah, I think that it's just. I have, you know, 30 years of base, basically, and so it's not that all accumulates still. So it's not that all accumulates still. And I think that you know the longer stuff where you don't need power, it's yeah, there's still. I still have a few more years, for sure.
Speaker 1:Interesting? Yeah, it's. I mean, there's quite a few athletes too that I've shown. I mean, dude, marco Loma was winning.
Speaker 2:UTMB in his 60s. Yeah, I mean honestly, like Ludo Pomeroy right now is completely doing this crazy stuff. I mean, two years in a row winning hard rock and being top 10 at utmb is nuts so and he's 50 now, so yeah on on that.
Speaker 1:What do you think is especially? Knowing the hard rock course and having run utmb like what do you think is like a better, like a bigger achievement give? Have knowing both of those, ah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's up to the individual.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's up to the individual.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's any way to objectively call either a bigger achievement. Um, I personally like the hard rock course more. Um, it's in colorado. It's way more remote. Uh, more vert. Uh, I think it's better in almost every way. Um, utmb is uh cool because it is the pinnacle event in the sport and I think it's important for a sport to have that kind of event and uh and it's exciting.
Speaker 1:So they're just two very different races with UTMB on that topic and obviously you just got back from sham. You were on the start list this year. What is it like unfinished business? Do you have like left with that race? Like what? What still gets you stoked on that?
Speaker 2:Man, I was just getting around the mountain in a way that I can be proud of. Uh, you know, I finished it once. I started it twice and neither of those starts were anywhere close to like my potential. Um, the first year was until I dropped out with injury, but yeah, I was, I was fit and going well. And the second year was, like you know, once I lost my stomach, which whenever you lose your stomach, it's a lack of fitness, you're going too hard, basically, which was the case for me that year. Um, it was just trying to get to the finish line, which I did, but hours slower than I would have liked. So, yeah, For you?
Speaker 1:was it more personally? I want to finish this race. I want to, I want to do well here, or did the other? Did the thought ever cross your mind? I'd love to be the first American man to get it done.
Speaker 2:Oh that at that point in time I wasn't thinking at all about being the first, I just wanted to win the race just because it was a race, than never, at least at that. You know, this would have been 2013, 2014. It just didn't seem like that, just wasn't. I don't really carry those like kind of like nationalist attitudes I don't I don't think it matters I like it's like we're all humans, we're all runners. Whoever wins wins. I don't like, I don't care what country they came from, you know so interesting, yeah, I don't we made what country they came from.
Speaker 1:you know Interesting. Yeah, we made it like they made a pretty big deal about it, when you know, obviously when Jim did it. So that's why I got to ask.
Speaker 2:But you know it's almost a decade later. It's true, it was a decade later. What was that? 23 when he won? Yeah, yeah, so it had been a decade. And yeah, like we keep getting beat up on, I guess, yeah, it becomes a thing, but at that point it was still americans hadn't been going over for as long, I guess. So yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:I gotta ask you a question, like I ask everybody that's on the podcast. It's like a very common one, like related to your why, like your why, you've evolved and changed so much, as the sport has evolved and changed so much as well, and I almost feel like and you would probably agree with this like you're a completely different athlete now than when you first started. How has your why changed for yourself?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's completely different. Uh, you know, 10 or 15 years ago it was. I've always had the intrinsic motivation for running, but I was also very motivated by external factors, like. But I was also very motivated by external factors, like, like, I was like wanted to prove myself, I wanted to beat people, I wanted to like be on the top of the sport, and now it's like that doesn't matter to me. I'm 42. Like, the sport is moved beyond me. Uh, so all of my motivations are intrinsic and that comes down to. I mean, really, what we were talking about with FKT is like deepening a relationship with a place and with the community around those places, and that's what motivates me the most. Like all my buddies here in Boulder are like will get me the most psyched, like getting out in the Flatirons, getting out in Eldo, up in the Alpine, like that's where I draw my motivation now, I guess. Uh, so it's just yeah, it's like flipped, it's like purely intrinsic.
Speaker 1:Now, I know you get this question a lot and I know you don't like to spray but like, is there anything that like really calls to you right now?
Speaker 2:like there's all kinds of things. Um, I mean this summer I wanted to, uh, I was looking at the Elks traverse, uh, you know, outside of Aspen, and then the world in Utah where both those were like the two things on my list I wanted to do Um, it's just Alpine link ups, bridge traverses, that stuff, like it's merely excited.
Speaker 1:Obviously everyone's a big fan of former blog and now sub stack right in the wind. I gotta ask you this when did the name come from?
Speaker 2:Oh, um, yeah, so my dad, he, so I grew up on a ranch in Nebraska, 640 acres, and that was called right in the wind ranch, because my dad called it that, but it's like LLC or whatever. Um, and that came from this, uh, came from this, uh. Lao Tzu quote uh, on the Dao De Ching. Uh, it has to do with um, I can't, I can't recite the quote to you, but basically it's just not knowing whether, like, the wind is pushing you or you're like being, uh, you know, like floating on the wind kind of thing. So it's just sort of this like being one with the elements and the world around you and, uh, you know, that's kind of the whole point knowing your surroundings, being integrated with them and being comfortable with it.
Speaker 1:I guess knowing your surroundings being integrated with them and being comfortable with it, I guess. So, yeah, wow, I love it. You did, um, obviously you did a lot of write-ups, and one of the write-ups that you did was on kind of the Western journey that you did a few years ago. Do you think you'll do something else in the winds at any time?
Speaker 2:In the winds. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Cause you did Gannett's.
Speaker 2:That's why I kind of where my brain yeah, yeah, um, yeah, for sure, there's definitely some climbing I want to do there. Uh, down in the circle of the towers is kind of the main climbing zone, but there's other stuff deeper in the range as well. Um, yeah, but it's just a matter of like lining up a partner getting up there. Uh, there's other, there's other like bike to climb trips to be done up there as well, but yeah, it's. It's. It's tough to like find someone who can take two, three, four weeks off and, uh, you know, commit half their summer to riding their bike around Wyoming and uh, climbing mountains, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a cool spot. It's beautiful, the Windsor, I don't know that for some reason, like I just got back last week and a half ago, I ran a drove past the winds coming back from Tart, grand Targhee, from that race, and I was like damn, like this is an amazing range, it's so big so enormous and it's deep. Like you said, it's so far to get back there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a, it's not, um, it's remote and all the the mountains are like far back from the trailheads. You know, it's like 10, 12, 15 miles just to get to the mountains from the trailhead. So it pays to be a runner, um, I mean people who go climbing up there. They'll often hire pack mules, um, and just set up base camp for you know, a few days or a week, uh, at the base of a wall, because once you'd make the effort to get in there, like you want to be in there for a while such a cool range.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm gonna switch, switch again for the last question and then we'll bring it to the audience. What are the things that really stuck with me and you've been quoted on this talking about? I think finn said it was around expression in the sport and how there's just not as much expression anymore as the sport is professionalized so much. And then there's still this like there's some characters out there that still are around that have this expression and really captivate people and by just doing whatever they want to do, like. What's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Um, I guess my thing is that it's, I think, like peak performance is super inspiring, like I spent a chunk of my life pursuing that Uh. But, uh, I think you can do it. It doesn't have to be at the uh sacrifice of having any kind of like personality. Um, I don't know it's. I'm not interested in a sport that requires, or that uh, or that is like wanting to reduce a human to like a computer algorithm. It's just not. I don't think that's what life's about.
Speaker 2:Um, optimization doesn't really interest me. Uh, having having a meaningful experience out there is interesting to me, and being able to like relate that and convey it Uh, and I think there are plenty of people who are able to do that Um. But I think that sometimes people get a little wrapped up in all the nitty gritty when, like, the sport isn't that complicated and that's what attracted me to it in the first place, and I think that's what attracted a lot of people to it in the first place is kind of how, uh, oh, it's, it's simple and it also um also really strips away all the bullshit. I think it's maybe worth remembering that it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:All right, let's open it up to the audience. Audience questions.
Speaker 5:Just curious as to the arc of your experience, almost like as a kid growing up on a, on a ranch of that size, and was it pressure on you to stay in that business? And how did you kind of escape to colorado college? Yeah, and you sort of come home yeah, I mean my parents.
Speaker 2:My mom was a high school teacher. Uh, my dad worked for like a renewable energy non-profit, so we were never uh operating it as a ranch, uh leasing it to neighbors, um for cattle grazing and some hay meadows, but um, so there was never a pressure to like work there on the land. But there is a pressure currently in my life, just because my dad's, like you know, he's in his late 70s to like still hold on to that land in some way and I certainly have a deep connection to it. But my parents very much emphasized education, so going away to college was always good, non-negotiable, that was going to happen, um, but like the running thing, that was just completely me. I found it on my own, basically through like the presidential physical fitness test, and uh, it was when I was growing up. We would always take trips out west here. Like I think we came to rocky mountain national park when I was like eight or nine years old for the first time and uh, those like hiking and camping trips every summer were like what got me interested in the mountains and and then, you know, just combined, that just was easy to combine with being a runner too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, what's your favorite 14er? Ah, longs, by a long shot too. It's not even close. Um, yeah, because it's, uh, it's like the most, it offers the most like opportunities, just for like, for the full breadth of mountain activity. You know most 14ers are hikes or runs, you know they're class one, maybe class two. Trails and longs is like it's mandatory class three and there's all kinds of fifth class and in the wintertime it's a climb by any route, even the keyhole. Um, so, yeah, it's a challenging mountain and it's the one that's like in the backyard. So, yeah, I feel really fortunate that it's in the backyard, because it'd be the one that I'd be most interested in if I was living somewhere else in Colorado too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I can ask you this what about the needle?
Speaker 2:Oh, cresto needle. Yeah, I love that mountain. Yeah, that's a great one. Um, that one's really cool because Ellenwood ledges is a technical route that takes you directly to the summit. There aren't many like even on even the diamond on longs. You're like 200 feet below the summit. When you top out the diamond and the crest on needle, it's like you pop out a five, seven pitch and you're like standing on the summit. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, such a stunning peak too yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2:The songras are really cool range because they're so linear, um a lot of vertical relief, like 6 000 feet from the valley floor. Um really interesting rock type that conglomerate.
Speaker 4:But uh, yeah, yep um, how did you uh dial in your line on the la freeway, did you uh? And also a little second part to it did you use like gps technology to uh help you along the way when you got? We'll follow you with the altitude uh, no, so I didn't.
Speaker 2:I I didn't use GPS during the FKT, but definitely while scouting because, uh, you know, plenty of people in the community here have been up on the freeway, so there's a number of GPX tracks out there and, uh, just a couple of little spots, trying to remember where, specifically, uh, from like Algonquin to Paiute, I remember I think I was even using like like sky's track maybe, uh, or kyle's um, just seeing like where they went there. But it's funny because before I'd scouted all that stuff, before I ever even had a gpx watch or smartphone. So it was like, but you're just like kind of confirming afterwards. And then, uh, but when I actually was during the effort, I just knew it and like looking down at like either like a breadcrumb on your watch or even like you know some kind of mapping app on your phone, it's way slow, it's not efficient. So, yeah, I just knew it well enough at that point that I knew where I was going.
Speaker 4:But, yeah, so mostly repetition and spending many, a lot of time up there yep, you don't want to like just go after peak optimization of like humans, like, like algorithms, right? How have you been incorporating all the advances for like the new findings with like nutrition and like all these types of adaptations, and like manage that while also having fun?
Speaker 2:man, I just, I just haven't been incorporating that stuff. Uh, the last couple years I've been trying to like eat more while running, even during. I mean this is something that I mean research now would show like I was doing it wrong, basically, but when I was younger it was. There was definitely like this kind of like stupid point of pride almost of like not eating well on long term, like I would do a four or five hour run and have maybe one or two gels. You know which is like what do you even like you're not feeling that at all, like it's nothing, um, but uh, yeah, the last couple of years I've definitely been like trying to fuel long runs more and and like this summer, um, you know, if I was like going up long speak, I would take one or two gels on that out and where.
Speaker 2:In the past I would never think about that, but the idea there is just you know what everyone says about it Like the more you fuel during the run, like you're going to recover better, hopefully not get injured as much. So I don't know. I have been thinking about getting a sweat test for figuring out like electrolytes supplementation during races and longer efforts, because I mean a year ago I did a 100-mile race and it's just sort of inexplicably like and this has happened in a lot of hundred mile races like kind of fall apart around 80 miles and for like no good reason, and uh, I wonder if that has something to do with electrolytes.
Speaker 3:So yeah, sure If you could go back and tell your younger self to do one thing differently. What would it be?
Speaker 2:Oh, I would have. I would have become serious about rock climbing earlier, but also probably I mean feeling on, on on long runs probably would have been a good thing to be doing. You know, I've been injured a lot my whole life and, like I was just saying, like I would not eat very much for years and years, you know. So I don't know, it would have been interesting to see, like you know, if I was eating 300 calories an hour instead of 100 calories an hour on a long run, if I could have stayed healthy. But yeah, uh, we'll go over here first and then come back yeah.
Speaker 5:So obviously you've been in the sport a long time and things have changed a lot, I imagine, in your time in the sport. As somebody personally who's looking to take on a career similar to what you've been able to take on maybe not on the same level, maybe, who knows what sort of advice would you give to younger generations looking to get involved in the sport on a professional level?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you have to. I think performance is necessary. I think performance is necessary. I think you have to uh have results when a few races, uh, because that gives you some credibility in the sport. But along the way, I think it's important to have a value structure that you're committed to. And that's hard to do, like it's. It's hard as a human to know, like, what is important to you. It requires self-reflection and uh, and thinking about it a lot, and you know, drawing from a lot of different sources and synthesizing all that. But basically it's like, do what you can, like figure out who you are and like, do what you can to like remain true to yourself.
Speaker 2:Uh, there's a few things I did in my career that were not that Um, and it seems like it always ended up being a bad idea then and uh, I don't. I mean, that's just part of growing up, um, so, yeah, don't uh. Yeah, it sounds cliche, but like you have to find your own path. Like it doesn't always pay to like look and see, like, oh, that person did that and like, but everyone's different, everyone has a different, uh you know way of being in the world and it's, I think it's most important to um try and figure out what that is for you and then like stick with that, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Yellow shirt.
Speaker 3:Yeah Uh, kind of a nebulous question, I guess, but um, I feel like boulder specifically has this weird concentration of people who are like top one percent of the world at scrambling and running shoes like yeah, yeah a lot of people in boulder are, like you know, like kind of like, maybe like top out of pretty mid grades, like 511 or so, but they'll sure, like five, seven, like non-resole, you know, yeah, um, obviously a lot of that is due to, like you know, flyers being in the backyard, I think, like elder being so close, but is that something that's like unique to boulder or something that you've seen in like a lot of other places, or it's just like, yeah, I feel like I've run in a lot of different places and I haven't really seen that type of like hybrid badly happen anywhere else.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of it has to do with the Flatirons. It's a really unique geologic I mean call it an anomaly where you have highly featured stone less than vertical, like literally, you know, within a mile of downtown. That's just. I mean, I haven't been everywhere in the world but like the only other place that I can think of that has that kind of a feature is the West Labs in Mount Olympus, in the Wasatch Range in Utah, and that's one feature and here we have kind of like a whole range of it.
Speaker 2:Um, it's man, it makes me sad to think that there's like maybe pressure around that because it is, it's super dangerous, like the consequences are death, like it's it's free, solar and it's not just scrambling and and that's a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I think it is like any in any place, the prevailing culture like kind of like it can seem like that is like something gets normalized. That's that definitely has happened here in Boulder, just because of the geographic feature. Um, I don't, I don't think it's normal I've been as guilty of that as anyone of uh, like popularizing and normalizing that um, but I don't think that that should necessarily be the case. Like I don't think there should people should feel pressure to, like, you know, do anything other than the second flat iron, or I mean. Or like doing it in running shoes at all, you know like go up there with I mean a rope and a harness, you know. Or shoes in a all, you know like go up there with I mean a rope and a harness, you know. Or shoes and a chalk bag, you know like it's uh, that's fine, like got to feel comfortable, yeah, but yeah, good question.
Speaker 1:Anybody else?
Speaker 2:All right, all right Good.
Speaker 1:Anton, thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate it, guys. Round of applause for anton. Thank you. What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode.
Speaker 1:I want to thank tony so much for coming on the podcast. Um wish I had I could have talked to him for hours. Uh, you know, hopefully we do this again. We'll be able to get more time with one another. This one was on a little bit constrained timeframe just because we were filming this at the Las Partidas Boulder store, so we didn't want to keep everyone there all night, so it was kind of a constricted time. So, that said, I want to thank everyone who made this possible. First off, tony for showing up and doing this. Second of all, I do want to thank the folks at Las Partiva North America, as well as the Las Partiva Boulder store, for helping to make this possible. Um meant an absolute ton. Um guys, you can support everyone.
Speaker 1:First off and foremost, um a lot of the most of the video if not all of the video for this podcast was provided by Ace Brown. You can find him and give him a follow on Instagram at Ace Brown creative. Um're extremely talented in many different ways, not just a runner, also as a creative Ace Brown. Give them a follow. Also, if you don't already follow La Sportiva North America, follow them on Instagram, as well as the La Sportiva Boulder store. Definitely follow them. Gives you an update on everything that's going on as far as the La Sportiva Boulder community. Gives you a post on group runs, sales, factory sales, all those different things, which is pretty dope. Finally, last but not least, you can give Tony a follow, as I'm sure you probably already do. Follow him. You can find him at Anton Kropichka on Instagram. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode or if you have been loving the stuff we've been putting out with the Steep Stuff podcast, the best way you can support me and the podcast is to give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you get your podcasts. That would mean the world to me until we can continue to keep putting on these amazing episodes and telling the stories of these incredible athletes.
Speaker 1:You guys hop on ultimate directioncom and are in the market for a new vest or belt. Um, you can check out some of their uh, new stuff that we've got. They've actually just dropped. Um, the new race vest, as well as new ultra vest, as well as the quiver comes in a six liter and a 12 liter. Uh, check that out. Use code steep stuff pod for 25% off your cart. Um, guys, this is Pike's peak week. This is what. Uh, this is the episode I decided to drop on the Monday for Pike's peak week. We've got a lot coming down the pipeline this week and then we also have a lot coming down the pipeline next week for worlds. Um, so you're going to be hearing way too much of my voice, and it's probably my voice is probably gonna be gone by the end of this. But all good, um, I hope you enjoyed it, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in, thank you for your support and have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much, thank you.
