The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Jeff Cuno - Pre Pikes Peak Ascent Interview
The mental and physical crucible of Pike's Peak brings together over 2,500 runners annually to test themselves against what organizers aptly call "America's Ultimate Challenge." What drives athletes back to this mountain year after year? As one elite runner explains, "You're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die... it's an ultimate mental battle."
This conversation dives deep into the psychology of mountain racing, examining how athletes approach a challenge where the real competition isn't other runners but the mountain itself. "I don't care what racers show up," shares a veteran competitor. "This is a test against yourself. Everybody that's out here is doing it, everybody's testing themselves."
We explore the strategic elements that make Pike's Peak particularly demanding - from pacing the notorious "W's" section where "you can't gain much but can sure as hell lose a lot," to adapting nutrition strategies as altitude increases and digestive challenges mount. Elite runners share their training approaches, balancing structured workouts with time spent "running in the mountains, getting in the Alpine, seeing cool lakes and tagging some peaks."
The discussion reveals how these athletes think about race craft - the mental calculations, the physical adaptations to altitude, and the nutrition strategies that evolve from trailhead to summit. For anyone fascinated by endurance psychology or considering their own mountain challenge, this episode offers both practical wisdom and a window into what happens when body and mind are pushed to their limits against one of America's most iconic peaks.
Curious about what it takes to conquer your own mountains - literal or metaphorical? Listen now for insights that extend far beyond the trail.
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Going up. It's just you're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die. So, like they say, it's an ultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2:Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1:mental battle. Yeah, I don't care what racers show up, even if somebody shows up better than me. You know this is a test against yourself. Everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2:It's called America's Ultimate Challenge. Each year, over 2,500 runners flock to Manitou Springs to challenge themselves against the mountain known as Pike's Peak. This year, runners from 46 different states and eight foreign countries have come. They all start here and make their way towards the clouds. It's time, thank you.
Speaker 3:Ladies and gentlemen, we are live flew by quick man. I feel like we were just chatting. Like this is, this is nuts. Like here we are. We're both heavily bearded and, uh, a little bit older now gotta get the beard going before winter.
Speaker 4:Uh, winter comes, so so we're prepared.
Speaker 3:You know what man who knows? I mean, I haven't checked the weather for the pikes peak ascent and marathon, but I mean I heard the other day, didn't it? It did snow the other day. We're rolling the dice, dude. I don't know what we're doing here, but like it could be, I swear to God if they, even if it snows like we're going to the top. We have to. It can't not happen.
Speaker 4:Last year was. I still think last year we should have went to the top, but I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not, but I think we should have.
Speaker 3:You're not the only one who feels that way, Just about 99.9% of people. I, you know I made a mistake of like telling people I'm on the board now because I've had I've even had women reach out to me asking to create a um petition to move the race back to August. So, like, people feel very strongly about the uh, about the situation right now.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, how many, how many years has it been in september?
Speaker 3:like four or five I think this is the third or fourth, if I remember correctly, we're gonna move from what I understand I don't know if this is like, I don't know, maybe this could be. You've heard it first here we are definitely next year gonna move it back, I think, to the beginning of september, or or the first two weekends in september, if I remember correctly. So it might be moved back a week or two weeks. Um, and it was something to do with I don't know, something in manitou they were doing or they needed, they needed the trails for something I I honestly cannot remember. But, um, yeah, dude, I'm all for august. I think we need to go back to august. I mean, who cares about the thunderstorms? You know it's all right, we didn't. You know, lightning, a little bit of lightning adds a little parody. But if there's snow, you know we don't need anybody freezing to death on the mountain. It could be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it'd be awkward and like, even if it doesn't snow, it's cold. Like after you cool down, after you get to the top, it's cold. Man, oh, it's freezing up there it's terrible. Yeah, you're all sucked dry and withered away, so it's. It's a tough one for sure, oh man, man.
Speaker 3:So what about the ascent intrigued you this year? Was it more the like you just didn't want to do the marathon again? Or what are we doing here? What's?
Speaker 1:the.
Speaker 4:Man, I don't know. Okay, so I was a little rambunctious and I signed up for way too many races in September and obviously that descent is going to beat you up really bad. And obviously that descent is going to beat you up really bad. Um, so my thought was like, oh, if I, if I do the ascent, then I'll recover, you know, a lot faster and be able to do this 50k, uh down in new mexico the following weekend. Um, I'm kind of sad about it because, uh, like we've talked about in the past, like my downhill is just, uh, it's my bread and butter. So I'm kind of taking that away and kind of putting myself in an uncomfortable situation. But it's going to be fun, uh, regardless. So so, yeah, ultimately I went with the ascent because, uh, I wanted to do a couple other races and didn't want to be fully destroyed from that downhill.
Speaker 3:Totally understood, man. How, um I mean dude, you've run so fast on this course, like what's your fastest ascent time? It's like 2, 2, 11, 2, 17, what is it?
Speaker 4:my ascent time. Yeah, no, it's not that fast. I'm in that 230, so I'd like to. Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to crack 230 this go around, but uh, we'll see. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 3:See how I feel so you just did a high altitude race. How did you feel? Uh, I mean, obviously like devil and divide, especially for 50k, is that's a long time above 10,000 feet. How did you? How'd you feel during that? Um?
Speaker 4:I didn't taper that much for it because I knew that you know, pikes was a little bit um two weeks after. So I kind of wanted to like prolong that and I went into it like slightly tired. Um I was feeling. I was feeling pretty dang good, um, maybe about five miles. In the first five miles it took me a little bit to get, uh, warmed up. It kind of starts on like a like a forest road and that's not and I'm not like the biggest fan of that.
Speaker 4:You know, I love, love me some single track for sure, um. But I was feeling good, I was feeling really good, um, coming through like 13, 14, 15 miles, um. But I had changed something up to which you know, like we all know, you're not supposed to do things new and racing. Yeah, I had done uh about 75 grams of carbs per hour in training and I was like, ah, what the hell I'll do, I'll push it and I'll go a hundred grams per hour, um, for devil, on a divide, cause I was just, you know, 50 K, I wanted to make sure that in that last 10 miles I kind of had a little extra juice in the, in the body, to keep me going.
Speaker 4:But body, uh, stomach kind of revolted on that and I had lost uh two of my bottles. Uh, nice, uh, projectile vomit out out at tree, out at tree line at like 18 miles and then kind of, from that point on, it was just, uh, just get me to the finish line. So it was like if you were to uh storybook, uh, ultra, I think that was. Uh, you look in a dictionary that my race was definitely that. Oh my.
Speaker 3:God dude, all right, All right. So we learned a little bit about the, uh, the high carb. You know, listen, man, it can't be worse than me. I dude, I got two and a half miles into a cirque race and cramped. I don't think anyone's ever done that other than me. All right, so you know, it's, it's, it's, uh. It's just one of those days to figure shit out and hope for the best yeah, yeah, it's just you live and learn.
Speaker 4:but that course, dude, is so epic, like you're spending so much time above tree line and running like sweet ridges and um, it was like, yeah, I was super bummed and I felt like crap, kind of like does last 12 miles. But I mean, it was just, it's so epic. I would highly recommend it for sure.
Speaker 3:I've heard really good things about the course. Nick to Sarin uh, the 22 K on the podium there. I've heard like amazing things about both races. Um, what are you like? What'd you think? Did you get to talk to Zach Miller at all? Was he? Was he on the course with you guys?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, um, I talked to him at the finish line a little bit. Um, super cool guy. Uh, I think he signed up like kind of last minute so I was like, oh, it's going to be kind of cool to uh to see what he can do on that. I know he's probably uh tired from training as well, from training for uh world champs coming up. But uh, yeah, man, there's like a little out and back kind of around like halfway and I was like kind of close to him, maybe like two, two, three minutes behind him, and he looked just in true zach miller fashion I think he just looked like he was hammering and I think no matter the distance he looks like he's hammering. So, um, it was cool to kind of see him in action and uh, yeah, be a be a fan for for a second, be on the same course with the guy. So, yeah, it was cool that's cool, man, that's cool.
Speaker 3:I love it all right back to pikes. I gotta ask you, man, like what, what keeps you coming back? What about this course? Is it something you just haven't like? I mean, last year, obviously, we had the shortened course, so that keeps you hungry to go do something, whether it be the center or marathon. But like, is it the quest to go under 230? Like, what has you intrigued about this race?
Speaker 4:that's a really good question. I don't know. I just feel like this will be my third time racing it. Um, I've done, uh, bartrell mountain race twice and I've only gone to the top once, because last year it was shortened, obviously, and the first year that I did it was that Golden Trail year in 2022. Then I went to the top that year and it just, I don't know, I just didn't feel like I executed like I could have.
Speaker 4:I felt a little like lethargic and it just I think it's a really hard course and very niche course to nail and like actually get it dialed in. So I think that is the most intriguing thing to me is like going back and seeing if I can I mean, you're never going to feel good from start to finish but like cross the finish line knowing that like, oh man, like that was the best I had, you know, Um, so that, um, I know that I have regardless of uphill, downhill, um, whatever it is, I know that I have, you know, a skillset that I can do a lot better on it than what my time shows. So that's just kind of something that eats at me too. A little bit is like going in and having a kick-ass race and and showing that I can climb well, you know um, and not just rely on the downhill a little bit. So yeah, man, a few things. It's also like such a historical race. You know, legends have ran that race, it's true.
Speaker 3:Badass All the legends, man, I, I, it's interesting to me, legends have ran that race. It's true, badass All the legends, man, it's interesting to me. I'm going to get the gears turning in your head for a second, just because this is a weird year. Joe's not back, joe's going to Worlds. I think that's common knowledge now and it seems like I mean, we've got a pretty sad elite field, lot of dudes with with not a ton of experience, and like you're a very experienced dude in this field, does that change the calculus in your mind? Like, maybe, like you know, are you looking? What I'm trying to ask you is is it more you versus you looking for a time, or is it you're going to go race to win or try to win, or at least try to get on the podium, cause there's an opportunity this year?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good point. Um, no matter, I guess, what the race is, kind of no matter who shows up, like you always want to go there to win. Um, obviously, expectations change. Um, you know, a lot of the races these days include some of like obviously America's best, the world's best mountain runners, trail runners, um, so kind of coming at it with like a a level head and realizing kind of where you're at um, but still having that that desire and that drive to win is always going to be there. Um, that being said, you know, like you said the time, um, it's such a nasty race that like, like I said uh earlier that like I just want to execute. So there is that that feeling going in. I think, if I have a good day, like, no doubt I can battle for that top five on that that podium.
Speaker 4:I don't know about um winning, you know, but there's some. Last time I checked there were some pretty fast uh dudes, especially some really good climbers. Um, but yeah, always have that mindset of of going to a race to win. I think that if you're, if you're telling yourself you know, or if you're going to a race and you're telling yourself like, uh, I'm not going to win and these things. You're just setting yourself up for failure regardless. So you're just setting yourself up for failure regardless. So you know, dream big, shoot big. You know if you fail, so what? But uh, always, always, go to the race and and have that mindset that you're going to perform your best and and you're going to be battling those dudes.
Speaker 3:Dude. I love to hear it. I love the approach. Let's talk a little bit about BTMR, where you got on the podium, you got second place. You're a former champion of this race as well. You got to throw down with john um, as is I don't know if you pronounce his name as ease or as is I should, I, should I feel like I should have asked him this anyway what, uh, what'd you take away from that one?
Speaker 3:obviously, john's is just in a crazy class of his. I mean, he was in like broken arrow fitness like at that point. Um, so what? Were you in no man's land? Or like, where were you as far as the race went?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Jonathan, as is, as he's is next level he's, he's a badass. What I learned from that race is that you can't gain much in the W's but you can sure as hell lose a lot. I think that you know bar. Um, I think that you know bar, so I've done a second time, I've done bar and you know it's that, that section after the w's and it kind of like our after no name creek, I guess I should say, and it flattens out. I think being able to have legs there is kind of um crucial and I don't know man, it's just like I said, even bar is like such a hard race to nail, um, with that climb and everything, um, but yeah, like I said, uh, being patient in the w's man is like gonna be kind of my approach. Going into pikes and I and I learned that from bar is like it's better to feel good after that than to feel good during that. Um, yeah, so that's going to be my approach.
Speaker 4:As for like race craft and things like that, John was pretty much gone, Um, but uh, me and uh Ben were kind of going back and forth um a little bit. He kind of went out hot and then, um, I was able to catch him. I was feeling really good on the W's and then, uh, I caught him and then from there I kind of hit a wall and he kind of just marched away from me a little bit and then, you know, once again I relied on my downhill and just hammered and I was getting kind of splits from the other runners coming up the mountain. You know it was like one minute and then it was like I don't know 40 seconds and it was like 20 seconds and then people were like he's right there, you can get him. So that that had motivated me.
Speaker 4:Um, I wish that I could have been with him a little bit more on the uphill. Uh, just cause it's just like I keep writing the same old story with myself, Like, oh, he's not going to be good on the climb, but he's going to hammer the downhill, and I just like I want to kind of change that story a little bit and be able to do both. Um, but it was a good mental, um mental battle, like kind of with myself and kind of with some of the other runners. That was like you know, like don't give up, Like you can always keep hunting and keep digging and get it done. So I think, uh, I learned a lot from that experience, Um, but yeah, yeah, Bar's a bar's a fun race and yeah, it's a good uh, it's a good little rust buster for uh pikes. In a sense, that's a tricky one.
Speaker 3:I gotta ask you this You're your coach, your brilliant mind in the sport. I've asked you millions of questions this in this off season to get get ideas and stuff like that. What have you done to make any changes in your climbing to to try and get that extra I don't know, one to 2%, if you could pull that out of yourself.
Speaker 4:So in the past I kind of um, in terms of training for this this year's pikes, I didn't uh come at it with like such a specific approach Like I kind of would with other races this summer. I just uh, you know, had a little bit of like life changes um earlier this summer and I just felt like I I just needed to go like run and have fun. So I spent a lot of time just running in the mountains and um spending a lot of time above tree line Um in these past couple of weeks, though, I did um incorporate a little bit more um pure, just uphill uh threshold effort efforts, kind of like aerobic threshold efforts. Um in the past, where I noticed that I improved the most was was like those 45 to like 60 minute like aerobic tempos um on like similar terrain that I would do um for the race. Uh, like I said, I didn't do too many of those this summer. Um, along with that just being paired with like like some shorter intervals like track or flat stuff, uh, just to keep the leg turnover Cause for me personally.
Speaker 4:Um, and I noticed with like some athletes that I coach, that if we're just doing a vert all the time, like what happens when we run vert we go slower, which kind of creates slow legs, right.
Speaker 4:So, like, always touching on that speed, always touching on that turnover, uh generally helps.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, like when I've, when I've climbed the best um, which I think 2024, um, I was in really good um climbing shape, I think, and I was just alternating man, I was alternating like 60 minute up to like 75 minute uphill tempos and then I would do um track sessions like around like 5k to 10k pace, um, and I would kind of alternate those like on like a 10 day cycle and every, and it really seemed to work, um, work well. But, like I said, this summer, I just I wanted to be kind of more of a, a soul runner and go out and, uh, just go run in the mountains, get in the Alpine and um see some cool lakes and tag some cool peaks. So, um, we'll see how, how it pans out. I think, above tree line this year I'll I'll probably be pretty strong, hopefully, um, I think I'll be able to do some hunting up there and and uh, yeah, have a good showing, hopefully, dude, I love, I love to hear it, man.
Speaker 3:It's interesting the reason I bring it up. It's just interesting to me, like. So I'd say one of the guys to beat in this race besides yourself is going to be brian whitfield. Here is going to be in the mix. You have raced them very close in the past, like just at this past year in june at um, what was it the pep, not pepe's, uh? At the adidas? Um, what was it the 20k for the adidas terex race? Uh, or gopro games sorry, that would escape me there um, I don't know. It's just interesting because you guys have all kind of bunched up and been pretty close together in the past. So it's going to be fun to see how this race kind of plays out with all of you in the mix.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and I think both of those guys are amazing uh climbers like here in a as a as an amazing climber. Um, brian's just good at whatever he does, so, uh, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. Uh, like I said, I think my strong suit's going to be above tree line and my strength and uh mentality will probably take over there. Um, no doubt they're going to walk away from me on the W's, but I've accepted that and uh know that I'll. I'll see them. Yeah, it's early. I'll see them later on the climb, so let's go.
Speaker 3:It's a long race. It could be a long race. It could be a long race, like. I think people forget that. It's like, yeah, yeah, you might feel good for the first 2 000 feet and I know you kind of said like once you get to no name and you got to have legs for that because you got to run what high seven minute, yeah, it's probably somewhere in that range. When you hit, you know, when you get off of no name and it starts to flatten out a little bit, which is very difficult to do, I don't think people realize like how fast some of the you know the front guys are going at that point. But yeah, the w's, you could really really fuck yourself. It could be a really bad day out yeah, yeah what is your favorite part of the course?
Speaker 3:oh, favorite part of the course.
Speaker 4:I don't know, I like that, oh, except for they changed it a little bit. Um, I really like that section. Like right after it flattens out and then you get like, as you're going up to bar and those timbers and stuff, like I don't know, kind of nerding out a little bit, but like those that biome at like 10,000 feet.
Speaker 3:Are you talking about the switchbacks?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Dude, I hate those.
Speaker 4:And they added, they added so many more stairs, or like I noticed that in bar and I was like, oh man, so that's, that's such a new challenging thing. Like, uh, all the the log stairs that they put in, yeah, and like, when your legs are a little little tired, those are, those are high up you gotta jump, dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how do you think I feel I'm a minute dude? I gotta really jump, yeah gotta work on the plyos.
Speaker 4:I gotta do something.
Speaker 3:Dude, yeah, no I agree I would do. There was cursing whoever put those in, man, because you gotta really figure out either way to go around. You gotta go over. It's not. Yeah, it's not, it's not ideal. Um, it's funny. You say that you like those switchbacks to above bar, like that's my least favorite part of the entire, like race or the course, if you will, because that's like I feel like that's the make it or break it aspect, like if you're not running that section especially on the ascent, like if you are, if you're hiking, it's over man, like that's where you're gonna get swallowed up especially
Speaker 4:because you're not even at tree line yet yeah, yeah, and it's like that weird, like random, like percent grade, where you can't hike it but you have to run it. But when you run it it hurts, so it's just like I don don't know. It's a. It's a, it's a tough section, so hopefully it will be able to hammer it and get into a good spot, starting there.
Speaker 3:What is? Uh, and you know you can go, you can be as candid about this as you want, but like has since last week you were kind of playing with the nutrition strategy. Have you adjusted that back down? Like what do you think? Cause, like, a hundred grams of carbs is that's a nice, nice chunk of carbs, but it's. It's interesting in a race like this, cause the weather's always changing, the altitude is constantly changing. You know your body is changing as you ascend the mountain. I almost feel like if you really wanted to get in the weeds about it, like you could almost have a different strategy for different sections in a lot of ways, no-transcript gels in that second half.
Speaker 4:I think another thing too is like, uh, like sodium intake is a is a big one. I've been kind of playing with that, especially like spending so much time, uh, high altitude this summer like kind of learning how much salt I need, uh to not feel like complete ass. You know um, obviously at higher altitudes we we need a little bit more salt. So I think, kind of prepping for that too as we get a little higher, or kind of um like doing some, some like I don't know what the word I'm trying to find is like uh, precautionary things, like early on um to prepare yourself for later, especially you know if, if food isn't going down or gels aren't going down as easy, um just making sure that you're taking care of yourself soon, just like we kind of talked about about the W's um being being smart with your energy early on so that later on, uh you can bank that and make sure that that you're there to play yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I love it. Did you do? Have you done a sweat test yet I?
Speaker 2:have not, I have not.
Speaker 3:I gotta say, man, I was thoroughly impressed with the sweat test.
Speaker 2:Is it cool, highly recommend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's a little expensive, but like I was like huh, I mean, I always kind of assumed I was a salty sweater, but I didn't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's crazy, once you take in the right amount of milligrams of sodium or a little bit more, you feel really good, it's great science man.
Speaker 4:Uh, tell me about this mount taylor 50k you're running at the end of september, dude. Mount taylor 50k is the pride of new mexico. Oh man, uh, it's a hard one. It's a hard one for sure, it's 50. It's a little shy of 50k. It's like 29 miles or like miles. Got a little over 6,000 feet of climbing and you're, you're above 9,000, 10,000 feet, like the whole time. And then the summit of Mount Taylor itself is like 11, 3 or 11, 5 or something like that. It's a tough course, if you like. If you look at it by the numbers, it doesn't seem crazy, but when you look at the course profile it's, it's very difficult. A lot of that 6,000 comes in the last 10 miles.
Speaker 4:You have a two major climbs, one of the first one being you go up to the summit of Mount Taylor. It's like, if I remember correctly, like maybe three or four miles, and you basically just go straight up the side of the mountain and tag the peak and then you drop straight down into this hole it's called water canyon, and then you're gonna climb your butt back out and then, uh, like a couple mile descent down to the finish. So it's a it's a strength runner's course, for sure. It's not uh crazy fast or anything like that, uh, but kind of having those climbing legs and being strong and kind of gritting it out in those last 10 miles is important. Um, I like to do that. You know, I got a lot of uh, a lot of friends and stuff back in New Mexico, so I'm excited to go back down there and hang out and race a 50 K with uh, with my friends, and maybe drink a couple of beers after. We'll see. And yeah, it's going to be a good time. Man, it's a.
Speaker 3:I would recommend it to uh, to anybody who likes a mountainous, 50 K, that's for sure. Oh man All right, so for listeners and myself.
Speaker 3:I gotta put that on the list, dude, I like I like to hear it. Um, yeah, I'm starting to get 50 K curious. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm sorry to get like longer, anything longer than 10 K curious. We'll say, um, have you? Do you feel like spending this summer in Colorado has made you like better with altitude? I know last year you were down in New Mexico living at a little bit lower altitude, so you think this is, uh, just like a net positive for you, altitude wise.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, I've kind of aside from when I lived in new mexico. I kind of always lived at altitude, um, and then moving down to albuquerque, you know, I was living at like 5 000 feet. I think it's funny because, like, like track and road runners are like doing altitude camp and it's like five like that low altitude for trail runners, um. But yeah, moving back up here, uh, where I live now, is like at 8 300 feet, oh, wow, um, so it took me. I thought that I was going to, it wasn't going to affect me that much, um, but like, the first two weeks that I was here and was was training, I noticed like a little bit of elevated heart rate and things like that. So I don't know, it's hard to say if it's, if it's benefited me, because every racing or every race I've done has kind of been at even higher altitude.
Speaker 4:Um, I do feel like I'm more prepared, like I said, like I spent a lot of time above tree line. So I'm excited to see, see how that plays out. But yeah, I think, just overall, um, probably a little bit fitter um, in the mountains, uh, I think there's different types of fitness and different things that you can be good at, but I think uh doing some big mountains. I think I'm pretty fit right now. So, uh, and I think the altitude definitely, definitely played a factor for sure. So, yeah, I'm grateful to uh grateful to live where I live now and uh be at the altitude that I'm at and have access to to go do those things. So, uh, you kind of take it for granted when you live down in the desert a little bit, so it's uh have it out the back door.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree it's fun following your Strava. You, uh, you put good stuff up. Um last thing I know it's probably hard to think about this, especially with two races on the horizon already. Are you starting to think about 2026 at all? Like any, uh anything on your that you really want to do? I know you and I text back and forth and every now and then you'd be like, oh dude, I really want to do this. So is there anything that like you're like I have to do, like I have to make this happen?
Speaker 4:Yes, uh, I'm always thinking about the future, Like racing is what like motivates me and drives me. So it's like oh, I should do this, I should do this.
Speaker 3:Um, gets me in trouble, obviously, like I have tons of rates in september um, but like, yeah, you and I were texting and you said the rut, and I think I think that just has to happen. Yeah, I can see that dude, you're such especially like technical descending, like that's your jam homie, like I think that that has to happen.
Speaker 4:So you and me next year we'll be at the rut. Okay, um, early season, I don't know. Like, uh, I knew someone who did a telluride mountain run and that it's. It looks so badass, but it's super close to the rut and I think, like recovery kind of, would be a little iffy, especially if you wanted to be in a shape for the rut. Um, I don't know, I think I'm gonna do gopro games again, man, because it's just like such a burner it's competitive yeah, all the freaking dogs are there.
Speaker 4:Um, it's a lot of fun, the environment's a lot of fun, I don't know. And then I was also kind of toying with the fact like I had so much fun this summer that like maybe I don't race that much next year, like aside from like maybe one or two really big ones and and then maybe chase some fun FKTs or just go run around in the mountains and have fun, kind of like what I did this summer. But uh, and then there's always, uh, my favorite race of all time up and over. Can't say no to that. That's a good one, dude.
Speaker 3:That's a good one. I still that race. I still have not gone out to it's on the list it. Uh, I, you know it's funny, like jenny and christy, like all of them, always go race it and I'm like man yeah like one of these years, I gotta make it happen. Um, yeah, yeah, it's good. Thank you, I think you would like it. I think so too. It's like a series race just a little. Uh, actually similar altitude, similar everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it would be dope.
Speaker 3:Well, dude, wish you the best of luck. It's always fun having these chats and catching up. We'll continue this going. But yeah, man, congratulations on everything so far this season. I'm wishing you the best of luck and we'll be in touch bro.
Speaker 4:Thanks, man, appreciate it All, right, jeff? Yeah, man, thank you, we'll see you next time.
