The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Sub-Ultra Mountain Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Andie Cornish - Pre Pikes Peak Ascent Interview
The mountain looms ahead, a vertical challenge that tests not just physical endurance but mental fortitude. "It's just you're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die," says one elite runner, capturing perfectly why uphill racing has become such a compelling discipline within trail running.
We dive deep into the world of vertical challenges, exploring America's Ultimate Challenge at Pike's Peak, where over 2,500 runners from 46 different states and eight foreign countries gather annually to push their limits. The conversation takes us across continents as we compare the established European uphill racing scene with its growing American counterpart, examining what makes these pure tests of human endurance so addictive for those who attempt them.
From the grueling Bar Horn race in Switzerland with its staggering 10,500 feet of vertical gain to the community-focused Mount Ashland Hill Climb, we explore different race formats and what makes each unique. Elite runners share their strategies for conquering these monsters – from specialized nutrition approaches that favor liquid carbohydrates to equipment choices like modified road shoes that maximize efficiency on the climbs.
Perhaps most fascinating is the psychological component of uphill racing. The successful athlete must master the art of measured effort, knowing when to push and when to conserve, while constantly battling the inner voice that questions if they're going too hard or not hard enough. As one runner puts it, "You know this is a test against yourself... everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves."
Whether you're a seasoned mountain goat or curious about why anyone would willingly subject themselves to thousands of feet of continuous climbing, this conversation reveals the pure, primal satisfaction that comes from starting at the bottom and finishing at the top – testing your limits against gravity itself.
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Going up. It's just you're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die. So, like they say, it's an ultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2:Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1:mental battle. Yeah, I don't care what racers show up, even if somebody shows up better than me. You know this is a test against yourself. Everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2:It's called America's Ultimate Challenge. Each year, over 2,500 runners flock to Manitou Springs to challenge themselves against the mountain known as Pike's Peak. This year, runners from 46 different states and eight foreign countries have come.
Speaker 3:They all start here and make their way towards the clouds. It's time. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen. We are live and talk Pike's Peak and just see what's been going on. You just got back from the rut, right? How was the rut this past?
Speaker 4:week. Yeah, yeah, it was good. I kind of have been like really loading my schedule in with racing, as you probably saw, and so the rut was kind of a last minute throw in, kind of if it was going to feel good or not. Definitely didn't feel amazing, but it was. I love that race and that weekend like such a cool experience. Every time I'm there, um, and I just love getting to be part of it. You know it's like, aside from broken arrow, we don't have many big like running, I guess mammoth too, but I've never been to mammoth, um, but it was super fun either way, really good training, um, and I came out of it kind of being like you know, if this is my first like not great race of the season, then I'm very lucky to have had a good season. So it was good.
Speaker 3:I love it. I love it. Well, we're going to talk about all of your experiences, but one thing I do. I got a question for you about the right. Um, was it weird that they cut it short? Like for the vertical like, would you have rathered it gone up to whatever 4,000 feet or whatever up? To 3000, something Like I think so.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean in a normal year I mean it was. It's hard to tell because this year, like from the gun, I was like, okay, my body's a little tired, like I need to chill, but uh, every vk I've done in the us has gotten cut short this year because, um, broken air. I guess it was an ascent, so that was a bummer. Um, and I'm all for like, getting to summit, I love when you get to finish on the top of something and so definitely bummer. But I'll be back, I'll do it again, for sure.
Speaker 3:What did they do? Did they like you guys finished and then did they cause I, they didn't do a live stream this year, which was I was really bummed about, um, but like, did you guys just like stop like on, on, like the side, and then have to walk down?
Speaker 4:or yeah, oh you, essentially we had to descend like 800 feet down 28k two years ago, um, and same thing happened Like they were also working on the tram then and so I've never summited lone peak, which is crazy. But we basically descended where I descended that first year, which is like this stoop, like super steep, like rocky kind of dusty area, but it was fine, cause you know, I got to talk to people the whole time and met some people, um, but yeah, it was definitely crazy having to like descend 800 feet to the chairlift or like walk on like a flat cat track to get to the chairlift.
Speaker 3:Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, is it? Is it super far from Jackson or is it like just as a few hours right?
Speaker 4:No, it's like three hours three and a half to the base of big sky resort. Um, it's like four to Bozeman. I like to think that Jackson is kind of like the perfect epicenter, because it's like four hours from everything, every big mountain, you know, four hours from park city and salt Lake. Uh, from Bozeman, um, I guess it's not close to Colorado, but from all those other States it's close.
Speaker 3:Do? Colorado is so far from everything. I so I drove out. I was on your neck of the woods, uh, for grand Targi. Uh, I went out this year and raced it and I was like, dude, this is so far, this is like a 12. I was like, nah, I was in the car, I think, for like nine hours or something like that.
Speaker 3:So it's not, yeah, it's not close from Colorado, but it's an amazing place. I'm not going to lie, I shouldn't say it on the day I drove home, like I went home saturday after the race and like I was going over the pass, I was like astonished by the amount of people, like some of like the trail parking lots. It was like yo, this is a lot of people, I mean.
Speaker 4:Granted, it was labor day weekend, but it was yeah, this is crazy you'd still think, though I don't know, late in the summer, you'd hope it wouldn't be crazy yeah but I think it's just starting to slow down in areas now, um, but even then, like there'll be days when it's rainy and I like go run up the resort and it's like the trails packed, so I'm like well really even at the resort damn yeah, I think it's just because there's like different times of the year.
Speaker 4:You know, like during the summer it's like when a lot of families can come in. Right now, this is when a lot of people who are like I want the, the quiet, and they come, but then it's like not that quiet.
Speaker 3:So is the snow. The snow should fly pretty soon for you guys, Right? It's like I know it snows a little bit earlier up there than it does down here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, it definitely has some of the tops of the Tetons. I've gotten a little bit of snow I, which is like good and bad. I've obviously super excited for ski season but I had just, with the way my season worked, I was in Europe for a good portion of that like dry period for the Tetons and so I had some. It wasn't super set, but like I really wanted to do the picnic this year and try to set that women, I wasn't like completely tied to it, but if it worked out, it worked out. But there's snow in the Grand right now and so I don't know, we'll see what happens. Like I'd still love to just go do like a fast, grand effort, but uh, it gets pretty icy up there and when it gets snowy and icy it's not as like, not as safe.
Speaker 3:I would think to do a faster effort and so if we get a mild October, maybe, but it's hard to say, I don't know. It's that's a tricky one. Um, all right, let's, let's get into it. Let's talk about Europe, your Euro trip, cause I know you've raced over in Slovenia, did you? You were at the trail team camp as well in Germany, right or no? Yeah, I was, so you did do both. Talk about that. Like what was the? What was it like going from this big trail team camp the week before and then going to race an uphill in Slovenia? Were you, were you tired going into this race?
Speaker 4:And like I luckily had a pretty like awesome Europe experience. Not that I haven't not had one of those before, but, um, you know, it was definitely a different year for me, going in and focusing mainly on uphill races, um and like uphill adventures, and so when I got to Europe, it's like the land for uphill people pretty much, and so it was hard to not go overboard. Um so, cause I did that first I guess backtracking I did that first race in Switzerland, um, the bar bar horn.
Speaker 3:What is it? Turtamontal or something like that.
Speaker 4:It starts in this town called Turtman probably not pronouncing it right, but um, uh. And so, starting there, which was a race, I had 10,500 feet of gain all uphill, um, and so, like, starting on that note, and then, quickly, I went into a week at Chamonix and so it was like I just was doing a lot of uphill and I actually ended up having my biggest week ever. Unintentionally, of like, I gained 32,000 feet of climbing one week and I was like, okay, and I was really lucky because my body, it seemed to have hold that, like it's held out. I like just started feeling a little bit tired, which is I'm very lucky for that and so. But so I wasn't originally going to go to um Sylvania, I was just kind of like, didn't really think about that, didn't really? You know, I didn't want to just go somewhere just for a small VK. I didn't quite realize it was like an uphill, you know, big effort, um, not that VKs are small, but just like time-wise and traveling. And so then I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the Germany camp, no matter what, um and no matter what.
Speaker 4:And then I saw Andy's email and he was like anyone want, you know, last call for the races and I was like, yeah, absolutely, like I would love to. I saw that it was this six mile, 4,000 feet of gain, and I was like this is perfect, this is what I've been doing. And so I went and it was. Yeah, it was such a cool experience to like A be with Americans again for the first time, like I hadn't been around any Americans, and like, which is great. I mean it's awesome, but still, it was cool to like be with all my friends and then travel together to this country that, like none of us have been to, and it was absolutely amazing, like. So I think everyone's been saying you know, slovenia is really underrated, it's going to get big, and I can see why, cause it was pretty spectacular, it was legit, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:Let me backtrack a little bit, cause I got. I got ahead of myself asking about the trail team stuff, but I do want to talk to you about your performance at the bar horn Second place, obviously. What was it like? Cause that was, you know that's a crazy race 10,000 feet of vertical, like how low do you start Like? Do you start like?
Speaker 4:basically at sea level, and then go up, like where, like what's the bottom and what's the top? This is crazy Cause I was thinking about this the other day. I was like where, what elevation did we start? Because I don't, you know, switzerland can be kind of high, but I think if we started at like 2000 feet maybe, um, nothing crazy, uh.
Speaker 4:But then, yeah, it was actually another crazy day because there was weather at the top, and so the day before they were like we're not going to be summiting Um, which I was really bummed about, because not only was this like a cool race, but like a really cool feat, you know, to to summit Barharm, the, the tallest hikeable peak in the Alps, and um. And so I kind of went into that day being like all right, well, I'm going to go to where it stops, which is still like 9,000 feet. But then I was like, if I'm feeling good, I'm going to summit either way, like I just really want to get to the top of this Um, and so I was definitely pretty nervous, but I think, going into it, I just knew that, it being my biggest day ever running vert wise, no matter what, it would have just been like an awesome day, and so I think for me that works really well mentally, just having that, like you know, that pressure. Obviously I'm competitive, but also just like, go have fun, see what your body can do. And I honestly think like it was a crazy early start.
Speaker 4:I was just like half asleep and then when we started, I just realized my body felt pretty good, but there was just no real pressure at the beginning, which I really liked. It was, like, you know, I kind of just stuck with people and if someone moved ahead I'd be like all right, they're having a good like moment right now. Like, just keep doing what you can do. Um, and you know, after a few hours, all of a sudden you've gained like 9,000 feet, or I guess we ended at like 8,600 feet of climbing and, um, which was just so cool, like it was just super spectacular. It was a little bit cloudy, but honestly the weather was great. Um, and then when we got to the top, I was just like yeah, that was awesome.
Speaker 4:Obviously, I was really tired. Didn't quite realize as how tired I was until I like gathered this group of like Swiss boys who were just like I was like I think I'm going to go to the top and they're like sure, like we'll come with you, um, and so then we all went to the top, which was like one of the hardest things I've ever done. I truly like did not die until we were halfway up that pitch and I like call my mom, because they like kind of went ahead, because I was like go ahead, you guys got it. And I was like mom, I'm going to die out here. Like she was like stop being dramatic and like get to the top of that mountain and come back down.
Speaker 4:Of course, I mean like shorts, it's like snowing, I just but, um, we did it, which was awesome and still like just an awesome experience, and did it like relatively fast because I was just like booking it behind some Swiss boys, but it was super cool. Didn't get to see the view, but to know that I just climbed like 10,500 feet was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3:Dude, I don't think I've ever had a 10,000 foot day. I'm trying to think about this. I'm like, wow, that's nuts. Yeah, that's really great. How did the race unfold for you? I mean, obviously you got on the podium super like fantastic finish, were you? Were you in any battles? Well, like, how did that unfold? Or were you just kind of alone trying to catch one, and three was behind you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think beginning it was kind of we were all close together a little bit. But again I just tried to be like we have 10,000 feet of climbing ahead of us, Like there's not. I didn't really want to be race, Like I'm racing myself, obviously and I'm pushing myself, but I didn't want to be thinking about the other girls. So I guess in the beginning, like I would say, around we had climbed like 3000 feet. At this point we were kind of all in a little circle, Um, and that the first girl had kind of gone ahead, but she was in my vision. And then there was like the second and third girl I guess it was second and then me, there was like four of us who were kind of around each other and it was a little bit of a battle in there. I do remember at one point, like second and third kind of were around me and like she, like one girl, passed me and in my head I kept just saying, like you know you have time.
Speaker 4:Honestly, I went into the day being like I'm happy with the top five, Like just remember that you're doing something really big today. You've never done this before. Top five would be awesome. So I kind of just kept telling myself that and just put my head down and kept grinding, was having a good time and slowly, like just caught up with the two other girls who had passed me with first still like in my sights, which was awesome, and then there's kind of this like flat section I want to say flat, but like the flattest, like I guess, a mile of kind of rolling, which was a little bit of a bummer because at this point, like we've just been like cooking pretty hard up to this, and so my stomach started kind of hurting because you know the stomach thing that I have, it's like the flats can be painful sometimes when you're breathing that hard, when you're working that hard, and so I definitely had to slow down a bit on that part, which was a bummer Cause I feel like as a track runner, that can sometimes be like my, my skill, Um, but I could still see the first place girl.
Speaker 4:But at this point I was kind of like I'm really happy with how it's going. I don't want to like have to stop because I push and, you know, get sick or something, Um. So I kind of was just like all right, like I just have to wait to fuel again until we start climbing, Cause then my stomach won't hurt as much. And uh, so we got to that. Like you know, you have like a mile of like rolling and then all of a sudden you're gaining another, like 5,000 feet, and so I immediately was like, all right, we'll be good. You know, we got to that part, Um, and that last part was super hard. Everyone else had poles, I didn't. And I was like, oh, typical American, Like it'll be fine. I wish, I wish I had pulled so badly. My calves were in so much pain, but it was still really fun.
Speaker 3:So oh my gosh, so cool, so cool, was it? Uh like, was it the entire way pretty much runnable, or was there a lot of power?
Speaker 4:Beginning, I would say. But it's interesting, cause when you have a race that big, I've I learned from the Europeans that they, they do really lean into that power hiking or that slow, you know, like working into it, versus like blowing up in the beginning and dying, um, but I would say it was very runnable in the beginning and then the end is obviously just like straight up and some technical sections and, um, yeah, like some running sections, but I would say like at that point you're pretty tired and so the power hiking was more efficient.
Speaker 3:I like it. I like it. The reason I ask is because like I kind of draw like a comparison between that and like almost like a Pike's peak. Like it's a Pike's peak is you're probably not hiking until, I don't know, just above a frame or somewhere in the a frame range if you will, just because of how high up it is. Um, so I guess there's a lot of decent like crossover then, even though Pikes Peak is technically pretty fast until you start to hit the higher altitude stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so how? Um, I don't know what are you thinking, how do you feel going into this race? What's the stoke level?
Speaker 4:I'm excited. I mean I think I've done a lot of training that has led into this. Um, definitely, like, obviously there's some nerves, having been a little bit tired at the rut and just knowing the season I've put on my body, but I know, with all of the base that I have and just really focusing on recovery this week, I can kind of bounce back. I'm excited because I just feel like it's kind of a perfect combination of everything I've been doing and I think Pikes is, yeah, it'll be like my kind of second time up that high, which is crazy, but like Wyoming doesn't have any 14ers and um, and the only other one was Shasta. I skied this winter or spring. Um, but yeah, I'm really excited, like it's, I think it'll be super fun. I have a lot of friends that I've met throughout the year who are uphill athletes, who are going, and so it's been like this big accumulation of like watching all of us train and get to this one spot and get excited about it. Um, obviously I have nerves going into everything, but again trying to have that similar mindset of just like first time doing it, like my body is you know exactly where it needs to be, and just like having fun pushing it and really like focusing on what I can do and, um, I think it should be good.
Speaker 4:Have you looked at any splits at all? Or are you kind of just going to go off, feel, um, I have. I talked to some people who have done it, uh, and, like you know, I'm going to do a little bit more about this week. I try not to be too like thinking about it too much before, um, but I have looked at some splits and kind of like when the golden trail did it and when you know other people have done it, and so I kind of have a relative idea, but I definitely, as the days get closer, want to look a little bit more into that, especially for fueling and stuff. So, but, yeah, I know I did hear that it can be definitely fast in the beginning and then the end you kind of hit that like really high. And that's when people described it as like you power hike and then you run it like there's that rock, I'm going to run to that rock, that you power hike and then you run it Like there's that rock, I'm going to run to that rock and then which I?
Speaker 4:think will be awesome. I mean, yeah, it's, and that's what I love, Like that's what's been really fun for me, those death marches.
Speaker 3:So it's a yeah, it's, it's a good no-transcript.
Speaker 4:I learned from bar horn that starting slow was key. Like I just started, I was so chill, Like obviously you're working, but in no world do I want to be feeling like I'm dying because you have such a like. You have so much race left and you can really gain on people. Like people can be minutes ahead and just drop.
Speaker 3:So oh yeah, people, people die. Yeah, like there's a good story. As francesco poopy, the guys were telling me, like francesco poopy, in like 2023, like literally died on the side of the trail and like came back to life and like started catching people behind, like, uh, once he got above tree line, like there's, there's there's some stories of people like having really tough races and then resurrecting from the dead, so it can be yeah yeah, let's talk nutrition like what is.
Speaker 3:How has your nutrition strategy kind of changed, as you've been? I mean, it's all been uphill races this year right, so it's almost you know fueling is very important because of how much you're burning, especially with all uphill. Have you adjusted your fueling strategy for stuff like that?
Speaker 4:Or, yeah, I think that in the past and why a lot of this stomach stuff happened. As I mentioned before, it was just my not like, it's just inability to fuel properly. It's really challenging coming from being a track athlete where they really teach you nothing, but I've quickly learned that like liquid carbs and fuel mixes like that are the A the easiest on the stomach but also just the best way you can get carbs in. You know, you can like really pack those mixes in and like sip on a bottle and have 90 grams of carbs right there. And I'm really thirsty.
Speaker 4:When I run, I'm not really hungry and so I have like loved doing that. I'll always bring some. I have my untapped maple, my nutrition sponsor. I'll bring those and those are awesome. But a lot of the times I'll have like their drink mix or just like some high carb drink mix that, um, you know is works with the stomach. But I just feel like it's the only like I actually kind of crave it during the races and it's just easy to like sip something and then have a ton of carbs in your system versus like gels and goos are just the hardest things in the world for me to eat when I'm running.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not fun.
Speaker 4:I've tried, like there's some people who can do it, but I will. I don't know if I'll ever be that person. I used to do like the Morton gels and I just it just was not awesome for me.
Speaker 3:I just started messing with precision. I guess I like the precision taste better than the Martins. It's like a texture thing.
Speaker 4:No, I agree, and I think precision might be a little cheaper. I don't know. It's all about like that hydro gel component, obviously, and like what protects the stomach the most. But yeah, I've heard great things about precision too, so yeah, oh, good stuff there.
Speaker 3:One thing I didn't get a chance to talk to you about I think you did it. It was either right it must've been right after we had our last conversation was winning the Mount Ashland hill climb. Talk to me about that race, cause that's like a legendary race.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was super awesome, honestly, like such a great way to open the season, especially because it was just such a community oriented race but so competitive still, but still just like I really you know after having raced golden trail a lot, and these like really high profile race, high profile but like very focused on the elites. I just forgot how much I missed. Like what made trail running trail running is the community, um, and everyone was so open and welcoming and I was definitely nervous because, again, that was like I my first uphill, like a long uphill race, um, and it it's very runnable. I would say I pretty much ran the whole time, which was a whole different sort of pain because I'd never done that before and that is totally different. Um, like it's uphill grade where it's like two flat test power hike but you could run it and that like really killed me a little bit, but it was a really awesome experience to start with, um, yeah, and it was.
Speaker 4:You know, I was largely alone pretty much that whole race and then at the very end I kind of like thought I had this gap. That was good, I was starting to bonk a little bit and then at the very end there's like you hit the mountain and then you basically have a thousand feet of climbing and the girl, like the second place girl, was right behind me and I was just like at this point I kind of had a moment where I was like, well, this is it. You know, I'm so tired and so I kind of just like put my head down and was like, well, if she passes, she passes. I think we had like 50 feet left of climbing. We were I just like stayed on her, that's all I did, and I just like had this final surge that she just didn't have. Um, and she was like afterwards talking to me about it, she's like where'd that come from? I was like I'm a track runner. I'm a track runner. I just I pushed as hard as I could and won, which was really awesome.
Speaker 4:Um, but just such an incredible race. I mean the the race director's son is one of the most insane runners. I mean I forget how old he is, maybe like 10, 11, and at like halfway through the race, this kid comes by the most beautiful form I've ever seen, passes me and I'm like, oh, he must be like one of the walkers who started early and it's just like a kid who's just like running, you know. No, he like got like third, I don't know insane, so, um, but it was a really cool big community of people who are also really into ski mountaineering, um, just because they live around the volcanoes and stuff, and so I met a lot of really cool people. And, uh, I met a woman who we've been in touch since she's going to be racing pikes too, and so that was a really really awesome race.
Speaker 3:So cool so cool. Is it? Does it start in like town and then like go up to the, basically go up to I guess their, their local, like ski mountain?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So it starts like and it's like really cute little nature area, kind of like right on the outskirts of town. You basically start in this park and then you run maybe like half a mile on asphalt and then you turn and you're pretty much on dirt road the whole way and they also start the bikers like 10 minutes before us. You know, the whole race is like bikers versus runners. So it's pretty cool because the whole time, even being alone, I had people cheering for me, cheering for people. It was pretty cool and like there'd be some moments where I'd be really tired, but then I'd see the bikers just grinding and I was like, well, at least that's not me right now.
Speaker 3:It's also fun to catch the bikers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, but it did make me kind of want to do it Like I was like I kind of wish they did a year where it was like one day is the bike, one day is the run, and then try to see, like have that overall category of course. But uh, yeah, it was just like there were so many people out there, um, and they all just love it. You know, anywhere you go in town, people were just like, oh, why are you here? And I'd be like, oh, the Ashland Hill clan Like, oh, my gosh, like love that race. So I uh have been telling everyone about it. I'm like that's one to do for sure.
Speaker 3:Interesting. I got to ask you this Cause you've had such an interesting dichotomy this year of you'll get like the whole spread of American races on the uphill scene and then you've done quite a few now, like including a WRMA final race. That's like a European. What do you like better? Like the European scene, cause it's different versus the American scene. Like what, what? What do you enjoy more? I know this is a hard question, but what do you enjoy more and like what do you think we can adopt from the Europeans that we can bring into the American scene for more uphill racing?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I think I just love it. Yeah, it's, they're very different, um. I think what's really fun about the European races right now is that it's just there's so many um, and they just have it really dialed down, but you're not necessarily like every us race. I feel like like you're kind of not that it's a bad thing, but racing the same people, or like it's like there's not a lot of you're not like meeting a ton of new people because it's like there's only so many American races, whereas in the, you know, switzerland, I like showed up knowing nobody and I'm obviously a bit of an extrovert, like love to talk, and so I just end up meeting all these people and they're just so excited to have Americans there because we just don't. You know we have these very set few races we'll go to or we prioritize, which is, you know, there's nothing bad about UTMB, but there's so many other cool races in Europe that I feel like get overlooked.
Speaker 4:And obviously I think a big part of what the US could do is bringing more uphill races that aren't just VKs. You know like we only have VKs, which is awesome, but there's like plenty of air. You know, the rendezvous hill climb is just now getting bigger. It's just like bringing in, you know, some of the pros and um, it's such a cool race exactly, and people love it and it's like that grind. It's really what trail running is about. It's the ultimate test of just grinding the whole time. Um, and there's so many places in the US where races like that could exist. Someone was telling me this woman I met at Ashland that there's this run in Palm Springs. I think that goes to the top of some peak and it's like 7,000 feet, san Jacinto, maybe Something like that.
Speaker 4:And there's a trend that'll take you back down. There's so much access to it. I think we have the access to it. I just think because it's like trail running is so much newer in the US, we're really like kind of just getting into that like sub ultra scene almost, and like we're not quite adding onto the uphill scene yet, and you can totally see that as like we don't use poles but all of the smart Europeans do, and I can see why now because, oh my gosh, they help so much.
Speaker 4:I got to use one in a training run and I was like checks out, like if I lived in Europe I would also be, you know, using poles all the time. Yeah, but I think there's a lot of ways that you can have more racing, like more big race races in the U? S, or like they don't have to be big. But you know, we just like put all our attention on these, like certain ones, and I think that Europe has a really awesome way of just having so many that allow runners to really find their niche and be good at certain things and not just like I'm a sub ultra runner Cause really.
Speaker 3:What does that mean? Yeah, so much range. You know, are you? Are you a VK guy or? Gal Are you a mountain classic athlete or you know, and then really, then there's everything up into the marathon and it's like there's a that's a lot of subultra. So yeah. I don't know, it's, it's um. I think there's definitely a space for it in the United States. I think we just need to.
Speaker 3:so like Colorado is a tough spot to have one, unless you were to do it Like, for instance, like telluride, I throw this out this idea out on the podcast all the time and no one's taken me up on it yet, so I might just do it's. It's like telluride is the perfect place for cause you can get, cause it goes up to the tram and you can start at the base, and I think it's like 4,000 something feet of climbing and like four or five miles, Like that's perfect. Um, so there's so many different spots, and then Jackson with rendezvous. Um, you know, have you ever thought about doing Mount Washington? Cause that would be, that would be your alley.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would have loved to this year, but obviously it's like a whole process of getting in it's hard. Yeah, I think that I will try to do get in this next year or like event, just start like trying the process of getting in. Um, uh, because I do again love the east, like I have such a background with the east and it'd be really cool to go back and get to do races there and it's kind of such an iconic race. Um, I this year was going to try to the race to the top of Mount Mansfield, you know, to the top of Vermont. A little bit smaller race but like, again, that's that's my you know college days right there, uh, but I was in Europe for the uphill finals for that, and so I'll have to do that one again. Uh, maybe next year.
Speaker 3:I'll do it, or some future I'll do it. You would be Joe Gray's favorite athlete. I'm going to tell you that's like his jam, he like loves, he talked, he said, brought up the race to the top of.
Speaker 4:Vermont. One time I'm like what are you talking about? I didn't even know that was a race. No, he's been an awesome person. Just, I mean, I haven't even officially, maybe I've met him like once when he was here. Our paths have not crossed, but he has been such like a mentor he doesn't even know it, but because he is one of the only us athletes who really was like I'm an uphill athlete and like not just a VK athlete. That's very different than like an uphill long distance, you know, and he's good at both, obviously.
Speaker 4:But um, and so a lot of these races that I've found in a lot of like how they've gotten popularity is they? You know, their claim to fame is like Joe has raced, so he's raced it clearly like I should do it. Um, but this year has made me really interested in kind of. You know, I haven't been doing like I had a maybe a goal of being like putting out all this content of being like here the most famous or like the the must do uphill races, which during the season got really crazy. It's hard to keep up.
Speaker 4:But um, I think it would be cool to like work with Joe and some of the other uphill athletes and like really kind of formulate some sort of content or like book or something that's like a circuit, about how uphill running is, you know, up and coming in the U S and it's. It's such a cool thing and there are a lot of uphill only athletes I've met who really just do the uphills, whether that's for injury or whatever, but no one really talks about it in the U S. They're kind of just like where's the next 28 K, which is great, but um, it's not feasible all the time to be consistently racing 28 Ks every weekend, like sometimes you can't do the downhill, you know.
Speaker 3:It's true. You know what have you um? Have you met Rena yet? Rena Schwartz know what?
Speaker 4:oh man, have you um, have you met reena yet? Reena schwartz? No, but she is on the trail team, I and she, um also here also which. So I don't know how our paths haven't crossed yet, but they will soon, I'm sure lived in vermont.
Speaker 3:There's like, yeah, there's like it's from vermont, I think. I think she's a bit.
Speaker 4:yeah, I think she might be a bit older than me, but, um, I am heading out east in a little bit to potentially do uh, well, well, I think I'm going to do it the uphill Canadian champs. Yeah, so maybe when I'm there I'll reach out to her because she looks like someone I would love to like get to know and train with. Or, you know, um, someday trail team will meet, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, no, she's. Uh, I think she's going to be at Pikes too.
Speaker 4:Oh sweet, okay, okay, then that's where we'll meet. Might get to meet her there yeah yeah, um, super cool, super cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I love that I have I'm seeing more athletes talking about the uphill stuff, just because I think we we either need some sort of circuit or series I almost forgot about loon, too. Loon's another good one like loon mountain race, which is super cool. But yeah, we could use like a, like an uphill series or something like that across the us. I think athletes would get super excited over that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and like I don't know we have. We're at such a point right now where we have the ability. You know, it's like trail running is getting big and there's a lot of, you know, support around it and so people are, you know, I think a lot of companies too are like how can we jump in on this? And I'm like, okay, well, there's already like a golden trail series, there's already a sky running series. Like you know, if a brand really wants to do something cool with it, you know, make more of like an uphill series and not just everyone always goes. Oh, so VKs, and I'm like, actually I've raced like one VK. It's actually like you know a lot more than that which VKs are so hard in their own way, um, and I love them, but I'm definitely more trained right now with the base. I have to do these like big uphill, like three hour, two hour races, Um, and they can, they can exist. We have lots of mountains and you know the West, so you're going to be so fit for ski season already.
Speaker 4:Like like with all the.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God.
Speaker 4:It'll be cool to see Cause. Normally I feel like I come into ski season being like oh, I don't know, and like I have a lot of base which is cool, excited for that.
Speaker 3:Do you have any big objectives you want to do, like during ski season, like ski the grand or do something like that?
Speaker 4:I mean the grand is always up there. It's not necessarily like something I haven't done because of any sort of reasoning, and just timing, like whether you know it's you always. I kind of just always want to, like, I want to do it on the right weekend and not just force it because I have to do it this year, but I have a feeling this is going to be the year for that. Um. Yeah, I don't know, I really got to sit down.
Speaker 4:I've been so busy with all these other running things that, um, and as I speak to these new brands and companies, I really want to see you know, this is kind of the signing period, but I want to, yeah, I'd love to see what they think and like what these people I'm talking to want me to do, or like kind of get some guidance in that regard, because skiing without having the competition side of it, I've found it's like so much more broad. You know it's like what? What do you do, um? But I would love to do yeah, I have some, you know there's there's always some some big ones that I'm looking at, um, and then also I think I would love to dabble a little bit in the free ride side this year, um, and do some of those free ride comps, just because I think that can be really helpful to like for skiing in general, and just why not, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. Um, all right, back to one more thing on pikes. What's what's going to be the ratios? Like, what do you think you're going to wear on race day?
Speaker 4:you know, I've really been. I've been wearing those, uh, the silence, those arcteryx ones, which have been really awesome. Um, I've, like loved using those. They've been great for the uphill, they are super comfortable. I did get my hands on a pair of the um, the new on super shoe at trail con which are like really, really comfortable. Um, so, considering that, but they're you know, I they're not as technical I would say. I think some people use them on more technical terrain but, um, but it's also all uphill, so it's not, it could be a really nice shoot for that. Um, so I kind of got to think about that. This week I'm going to bring both and and decide.
Speaker 3:But I would go kush and pop whatever's got the best pop because I have friends that wear like road shoes for the ascent and like oh yeah yeah, it's not very, it's not technical, like there's not. I don't think there's even none. There's not one. I don't think there is any technical sections.
Speaker 4:The most technical spots I think are on the w's like in the first 2 000 feet okay everything else is like a road, so it's, it's sweet yeah, perfect, then I I kind of was leaning towards the on ones, just because they are like super nice for that.
Speaker 3:So I had a buddy shout out to george foster legend. He's a used to be a hoka eu athlete. I think I forget who he runs for now, but he ran the ascent last year and he wore I don't know if you've ever seen the like the hoka super road shoes this yellows, yeah and he had them like shaved down with like a v-brim and he had like a v-brim outsole like put on them yeah, like they have, like no stability whatsoever, but just so much cushion and so much pop for the ascent that I was like, oh man, like that's a, that's a nifty uphill show.
Speaker 3:I was like you could get away with that, so yeah good to know when are you uh headed out to color?
Speaker 4:Um, I'm actually. I think we're heading out tomorrow. My, my family decided they want to come, uh, because we have some family who lives in Colorado too, and so we're going to kind of go see them. And my dad's a big biker, so he really wants to bike pikes like the day before, whenever he's allowed.
Speaker 3:um, or after that.
Speaker 4:Uh, and so he, of course, was like I'm coming out, but they don't get to often come to a lot of my races when they're in europe and um, or even in the west. You know, they just they work a lot, they're busy, um, and so I think we're going to try to really split up the drive, because it is like nine or ten hours for us, and so splitting it up in like fives, um, like starting tomorrow afternoon, going the next day, giving a day, kind of making a little bit of a trip out of it, which will be nice, um, cause, again, I'm not often in Colorado.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a smart idea, like the last time I went up there, like I just did the nice straight nine hours straight, like right after, and it's, it's a drain, like it's a long drive.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it definitely will be like the way back. We're definitely going to. Well, sunday I guess we'll be driving. Um, maybe we'll start Saturday, who knows, but I'm definitely lucky that my parents are coming because make them drive yeah, I hate driving and because I'm the athlete like I'm racing, I'm just going to sit in the back, you know, chill. Yeah, if they need it, I'll chip in. But there's two of them, um, and my dogs are coming, like my childhood dogs, so it'll just be us in the back, chilling.
Speaker 3:I love it. That's awesome. I'm glad that something we're trying to do with Pikes Peak is more family, more fans. We want everybody there, that's the big thing for what we want to do, so it's exciting to hear that we'll have family there.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, it looks like the passes sold out. I mean they couldn't even get one to the very top either, like my mom was on it, and so she's like, wow, there's going to be so many people. I was like, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:It's a cool race, man Like it's uh, yeah it's definitely. Yeah, we're going to have a lot of people I'll be out there with, with uh on I don't know about Saturday, but Sunday with bring sick people like yelling at people. Let's go. Awesome, awesome, love it, yeah, awesome. Well, andy, wish you the best of luck. I hope you have an amazing race. Uh, I hope you have an awesome experience at pike's peak.
Speaker 3:I'm super excited that you're racing it this year and uh, yeah, I can't wait to hear what you think about it and I hope you have an amazing day out there thank you, yeah, have a good one.
Speaker 4:It's good to see you again you too.
Speaker 3:you too thanks, thanks, thank you.
