The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Taylor Stack - Pre 2025 World Trail Championship Interview
Taylor Stack's remarkable transformation from promising college runner to Team USA representative has been nothing short of extraordinary. In this wide-ranging conversation, Stack opens up about his breakthrough European racing season where he finished as top American and 12th overall in the Golden Trail Series, plus secured a podium at the brutally technical Pitz Alpine Glacier race.
What makes Stack's journey particularly fascinating is his balanced approach to high-pressure competition. Rather than buckling under expectations, he emphasizes gratitude for these opportunities and focuses on embracing the experience—a mindset that has paradoxically enhanced his performances against the world's elite. His versatility across different course types—from cold, technical mountain races to scorching hot runnable routes—demonstrates a rare adaptability that's becoming his competitive signature.
The conversation delves into Team USA's unprecedented depth heading into World Championships, with Stack describing how a genuine team atmosphere has developed under the leadership of veteran Cam Levins. This camaraderie was evident when Stack, Levins, and Mason Coppi worked together throughout the Broken Arrow race, showcasing the collaborative dynamic that could prove decisive against European dominance at Worlds. Stack also shares insights about his training base in Salida, Colorado, where immediate access to the highest peaks in the state has prepared him perfectly for international mountain competition.
As Stack prepares to don the stars and stripes, there's tangible excitement about the mountain classic course at Worlds reportedly favoring American strengths with more runnable terrain. Could this be the year an American man finally breaks through for gold? With his rapid development and balanced perspective, Stack represents a new generation of American trail runners closing the gap with European competitors and redefining what's possible on the global stage.
Have you experienced the transformative power of finding the right team and mindset in your own athletic pursuits?
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Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com!
It's time. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen. We are live. Taylor Stack, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
Speaker 2:Doing really well. Yeah, Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, dude. It's good to catch up. I know we were kind of talking about this offline, but it's crazy, man, Since the last time you and I have spoken since like Broken Arrow time, like things have really changed for you. I mean, you've gone on this Euro trip and become like one of the most famous American trail racers right now. Uh, you know, 12th place series and all top American, as well as third place at pits Alpen glacier. How have things changed for you? I mean, it seems like you've kind of like developed in a very short period of time, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks man. Yeah, it's been a super awesome season. I'm I'm really happy with the results so far and, yeah, I think you know, having the opportunity to go race in Europe is that was like such a fun experience and that was kind of my first time really like seeing that level of international competition. I'm going to like really enjoy the opportunity to travel and, and you know, see the world and race against the best trail runners on earth. So, yeah, it's been super fun.
Speaker 1:Pretty crazy man. And here we are. We started with a pre-Sunapee conversation and now we're in a pre-worlds conversation. It's kind of crazy four or five months later, um, how are how are things feeling? Going into worlds, like what? How are the nerves? How is the excitement? Like you gotta be super stoked for this right. Going into worlds Like what? How are?
Speaker 2:the nerves. How is the excitement? Like you got to be super stoked for this right Definitely very excited. Um, you know the nerves. I feel like the nerves will definitely kick in once I get there and like see the course and everything, but for now I'm kind of just grateful. You know like it's more excitement and gratitude for the opportunity than nerves. And yeah, I mean I think the my mindset going into this trip is going to be just like you know, focus on getting the most out of the experience and like the opportunity to travel the world and like see a cool place and represent team usa and like really like don't let the race, anxiety or the performance you know, expectations get in the way of just enjoying that opportunity, because it's a really cool thing. And you know, if you would have told me a year ago that I would have this opportunity, you know I I don't know if I would even believe you. So I just want to definitely make the most of it.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's kind of weird Like we were chatting about a year ago a little bit, a little bit over that. Um, I didn't like, just before you ran um damn what the hell was the name of that race Imogene uh at an Airbnb in Estes park, like before you had like really popped onto the scene. It's kind of crazy how far you've come since then. Like you think about that and it's like a kind of a pinch me moment, like now you're wearing the stars and stripes and you're, uh, yeah, you've, you've come a long way, which is pretty, pretty frigging sick.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, I have no complaints. I'm super happy with how it's progressed. And you know, to make that team usa is definitely kind of the cherry on top of everything because that's like, for me, that's kind of like the ultimate pinnacle of achievement in running generally is to like be able to represent your country and wear that team usa kit. So, so cool so cool.
Speaker 1:Um, let's get into the nitty-gritty on the team, like we're sending an absolute squad. I know you've got to hang out with a bunch of the guys, not just obviously at Sunapee during the selection process, but also, um, at a team camp that uh cam kind of everybody put together, just about a month, month and a half removed. Um, can you talk a little bit about that experience and just how fun that team building was?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was super. It was great that we got together and did that. We got to run some 14 years kind of around. I'm located in slider right now, so it was just kind of my backyard where we were. We met up and stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's a super awesome group. I really love those guys and the girls team have gotten to know kind of all of them throughout the year because at Broken Arrow, cam and Mason and I all raced and so it's kind of a nice little like reunion tune up thing for what's to come. But yeah, it's been super fun and you know, it does kind of feel like a team atmosphere, you know, having the opportunity to hang out with those guys and you know Anna and Courtney and Sydney and and people on the girls team. I've done a lot of traveling with them this year as well, so I'm super stoked to get back together and hang out in Spain and I think, yeah, I think we have a pretty awesome team for the mountain teams and you know, I think guys like Mason and Cam and David like they haven't been doing the global golden trail series kind of circuit this year as much but like I think people are sleeping on them, they're going to. They're going to surprise some people in that race because they're rushers.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're sending a squat dude. Um, can you, can you talk a little bit about? I know Mason and cam have told me about this and I'd love to hear from you, like your point of view as well. Um, I know, on the start line of the broken era, 23 K, like Kim kind of pulled you guys aside and you know kind of like said like this is our, this is this is where team USA, this is where it starts, this is where we get to show out a little bit. Maybe talk about, like how that dynamic played out in the race, um, and how you guys kind of worked together finishing what six, seven to the eighth or something like that, like you were all together.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, it was awesome. I mean us three me and Cam and Mason we were pretty much working together the entire race, cause there was like that kind of lead pack of LZ and Phil Mon, patrick Christian and then Lucas Earl and they were kind of immediately detached from us and then it was pretty much us three. You know we were working with Andy Wacker there kind of towards the beginning, but then we kind of established ourselves as the chase pack and throughout the entire climb it was just us leapfrogging and working together and it felt really cool because it was like, oh, this is the team right here and like here we are mixing it up in the top 10 in a golden trail race. You know, it just gave me a lot of confidence that I think we're going to have some heavy hitters and really show up on the world, so it's going to be fun, wow, um talk about.
Speaker 1:I want to get into one of the things that really has impressed me a lot and I haven't really asked this question too many times. I'm just so curious, like it seems like cam has really taken on like a um, like a team captain kind of vibe, like a leadership kind of perspective, and I really like that. It seems like he's brought kind of that that over from schemo um and has just like taken on this leadership role. Would you agree with that? And like kind of how has that um helped shape maybe the dynamic of the team and conversations that you guys have had thus far?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I definitely get that vibe too. I think you know he kind of spearheaded organizing that whole like team camp meetup thing and everything. So that was definitely like a kind of a leadership, kind of captain type role that he was assuming on that. And I think it makes sense because he definitely, as far as I'm aware, he has the most experience kind of being on Team usa for running and for schemo, because he's made, you know, multiple teams over the years. I believe mason did make a team.
Speaker 2:Yep, I can check my yeah check my a few years ago okay, yeah, um, but yeah, I think cam kind of he's been through it before and he, like um, has interacted a lot with kind of the mentors and the leadership on the USATF side of things, and so I think it kind of he naturally fell into that kind of leadership position and then he's also just taking it upon himself to like really do a lot of outreach and kind of bring us together and organize that type of stuff. So it's been super fun. I think it's great to kind of feel more cohesive as a team and hang out kind of outside of just a racing context too.
Speaker 1:I think it's really important, man, like I mean and I've alluded to this in other episodes too Like obviously we're sending a squad. Obviously like this is probably when you're starting to look at UTMB indexes, interest scores and stuff like that Like this is the deepest team that we've, both on the men's and women's side, on as far as, like, short trail, mountain, classic, vertical. Like we're sending squads, the Euro should be scared. But anyway, I just like thinking about this and like conceptualizing the depth of this. To these teams, I think it's really important to have the cohesiveness and having the understanding and being able to work together as a team and just knowing one another really well. Like I think if there's not as much of that team dynamic and you don't know each other as much, like it's just a little bit different of a vibe, whereas when you get to know each other, I think it's just makes it so much more special. I don't know, maybe you, maybe you agree with that, maybe not, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I come from a college running background where I'm on a cross country team and we train together every single day and travel to all of our races together and wear the same uniform, and that environment definitely changes when you kind of get into the post-collegiate scene and the trail scene where everyone's kind of like their own entity trail scene, where everyone's kind of like their own entity.
Speaker 2:And so if you don't like go out of your way to try and, like you know, do these team building events, like it can feel like everyone's just kind of, you know, on their own or like an individual and then you just get thrown together. Um, but I do think that you know, having that team atmosphere, you know, really kind of brings everyone up and makes you know like we're going to be running kind of as a unit and like having trained together and race together multiple times this year and, like you know, it kind of like gives us a sense of like, okay, you know, like cams up there pushing the climbs, I know that I can run with him and you know like that gives me motivation, like I've been there before, we've pushed climbs together before. You know that's going to uplift me. But yeah, I I think it's great. I love the team atmosphere and like that's kind of one of the things that sometimes feels like it can be missing from the post collegiate scene, um, but it's really fun to try and like bring, bring us together.
Speaker 1:So cool, so cool. Um, I got to ask you about your build. Um, did you base out of Fort Collins or did you base out of Salida for this one?
Speaker 2:I moved from Fort Collins at the end of July so I was there for the first part of the summer and then I moved back over to Salida, um, right before going on that Europe trip in early August. And then I've been in Salada since then so nice. And I've caught the late part of the summer where things start to get hot on the front range, moved up into the high elevation in the mountains. So that's been really nice. I've been enjoying it out here. So cool, very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think there's. I mean, there's something to be said about both places. Obviously, I think both provide good training grounds, but there's something about that valley and just the ability to kind of get into multiple ranges in the summer and and also have the valley to be able to train on the flats, and stuff like that. I think there's some good variety for you out there. That just makes it really special.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, I really love it out here. I mean, like the mountain access is is pretty unbeatable. We've got the highest peaks in Colorado just like right in the backyard and, like you were saying, multiple ranges, and then there's also stuff down in the valley, you know, flatter stuff or kind of like more mellow trails right in town in Salida too. So that's nice to have. But you're right, there are advantages to being, you know, on the front range or like kind of Fort Collins, boulder, colorado Springs, like there's more people to train with, I think. So it does get a little bit lonely out here sometimes, but like we just talked about, you know people come out and we have these team camps and like I've got friends in Gunnison that I run with and like some people come through Salida every once in a while. So yeah, I'm definitely enjoying it Super cool.
Speaker 1:You know man I'm so curious about. So we'll talk about the series and all performance and the puts up in glacier. But I'm just curious to hear from you, like how much have you grown from that? Like, did that give you a ton of confidence being able to like race really well at basically the most competitive outside of worlds it's probably the most competitive trail race on the planet Like, what kind of confidence do you have like walking away from that?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's definitely a confidence booster. I think you know both of those races. They're both golden trails, sears and all is obviously, I think, more competitive just because it's such a high status rate race and like everyone's there. Um, but yeah, I think I, you know, I heard from a lot of people that like sometimes your first big international trip like it can like throw you off physically, mentally, with the time changes in the travel and you're in this new place where no one's speaking English and it just like is a lot.
Speaker 2:Um, and so to be able to just like go and like still have really good performances on my first experience with that definitely gives me a lot of confidence that I can, you know, still run well and compete at my best level, you know, at the world stage and after international travel and stuff. And I think a lot of it comes from just having the mindset of like you know this is a trip to go race and like I care about performance, but I'm also just like trying to enjoy the experience of like having this opportunity to travel the world to do this and I think, having that, you know, putting it into that perspective and, and you know, trying to just enjoy the experience in that way puts me in a really good mental space where it's like, yeah, the performance matters, but like, like, the bigger picture is that, like this is just a cool experience, and having that peace of mind, I think, translates to a good performance too.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I got to ask you about range. One of the things that's really impressed me about you is that it doesn't really matter what course it is. It puts up in Glacier seemed like a pretty ridiculous course and you perform well on that. You also perform at Series and All You've had great races at Broken Arrow. You have immense range. Is that just come from just being? Do you think just Is it one of those things where fitness just it doesn't really matter. If you're bad at something, fitness is the most important aspect of it. Or have you worked on little aspects to be better on little technical pieces and things like that? Where do you fall on that spectrum like better on little technical pieces and things like that?
Speaker 2:Like, where do you fall on that spectrum? It's a good question. Yeah, well, thank you. I, it was interesting doing that like pits Alpine, which was like cold, rainy, muddy and like like stormy, like snow on the high peaks and lightning and stuff and it, and then like a week later, sears and all was like 90 degrees at the start and super hot and dry. So it got like completely different ends of the spectrum there with conditions and had you know like strong performances at both. So that feels good to be able to. You know like translate, you know like, yeah, like put it together in any kind of conditions that show up, because in trail running, you know like you have to be ready for all those different types of conditions and all different types of courses and stuff, um, but yeah, I don't know, I I think that, like you, you mentioned fitness kind of dominating everything, and I think it, like what you lack in in like skill on that particular course can definitely be made up for with fitness, um, but I do think that, like you, to compete at the highest level on a given day or on a given course, like you do have to be able to like um execute in the like nuance.
Speaker 2:There was like a little bit of fast flat, um. So it was an interesting mix of like fast, flat, so you had to have some leg speed to be hanging. But then there was like the crazy steep 40 grade like super technical, super wet. So like you kind of had to have a little bit of everything and you also had to be okay with like getting wet and uncomfortable and cold and muddy. Um. So to me that was like real trail running right there, you know, and sierra zanella, um. So to me that was like real trail running right there, you know, and sierra zanella is obviously you know it's like super intense climb but it's almost. You know, a lot of that race is is not very technical, like not very steep too. Like the first part is super steep, but like you have to kind of have like conventional running endurance and like speed on kind of flatter stuff as well. So I think both of those races kind of tested every aspect. Um, you have to have a little bit of everything to be involved.
Speaker 1:So how did you deal with the heat at series and all? I've heard everybody complain about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pretty hot. I think I was fairly heat adapted because I was doing most of my training was in Fort Collins leading up to it and I would like run in the middle of the day and it was like 90 degrees and stuff. But I did take some like ice and put it on my neck kind of during the warm up and stuff like that to try and stay cool before the start and all the aid stations had like sponges you could grab and ring over you and like water. So I was constantly like putting water on myself and cooling down and it definitely was hot, especially kind of towards the beginning stages, but I felt like those cooling strategies definitely helped. Um, and it didn't. The heat wasn't like the major issue for me, it was more just the brutality of the course and fast pace at the start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What did you? What did you? Um, how about this? Like, how did it? Obviously you have this preconceived idea of what you think this is going to be right, even if you preview the course, you have this preconceived idea of how it's going to play out on race day. You can visualize, you can do all these things, but it's obviously different when you actually get there and race it. Um, I didn't. Did it meet your expectations, or was it like, did it blow your mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like talking to everyone, kind of leading up to it, people who have done it or people who like know about it. Everyone like emphasizes how like brutally competitive it is and how like fast it goes out at the start and like, oh, you're going to be in 50th place and completely buried, and like, and it's super steep and like. All of that is pretty true. So I was mentally prepared for that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:I think one thing that maybe like I wasn't as prepared for is like a lot of people say like oh, yeah, it starts off with a double VK and then it just it gets flat for a while and then you go downhill but like, yeah, the first part is very steep, but this like the flat part is really not even that flat.
Speaker 2:Like you still gain 2 000 feet of elevation in that middle section and so it's kind of like, oh, I was like ready to open it up and run on flat here, but I like feel like I'm still getting my ass kicked by this like second climb after already blowing your legs out on the double vk at the start and then also the downhill. Like there were some more technical spots than I was expecting. Like people don't really emphasize the technicality of it, but it's like you have to be ready for that, I think. Um, but yeah, super fun. I mean, it's like so brutal. I think the the course and the vert, mixed with like the heat and the crazy level of competition and how aggressively the race goes out, just makes it like one of the hardest races that you think will go back. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:That's what I like to hear. All right, all right, very cool.
Speaker 2:Having knowledge of the course and the vibe and just like having one out of the way, like I. Looking at people who've run it one time and then another time like it, they almost always do way better on subsequent races. I think, just like having gone through the experience once, like for whatever reason, like you're just better prepared to perform better subsequent times very cool.
Speaker 1:I mean, listen, man, I'm rooting for you. Hopefully we get you could be the first american to finally win this thing since like 1980 something. Yeah, american men, for some reason, man, we get. We have a hard time at this race, so it's good to see, it's good to see someone doing good, which is exciting. Um, all right, let's shift gears. I want to talk, um, I want to talk worlds. Man, I got to ask you, just with the squad that we're sending, I mean it's a very I mean we talked about this like the, the people that are going over UTMB indexes. It's a very deep field or a very deep group that the Americans are sending. What would it mean to you to come home with a medal, like would it mean a ton?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's like that's the dream. You know, like the first dream is just making it and toeing the line and wearing the team usa kit. But now that that's a done deal. Well, I think the next dream is to like, yeah, you know, like we're not just here to show up and jog a victory lap, we're here to actually try to execute and, you know, shoot for that medal. So that would be, yeah, mean, that would be like the extra dream to achieve, whether it's this year or, you know, sometime down the road. I think that's kind of the next big idea.
Speaker 1:Very cool, have you? I know you work with a coach. Have you guys tweaked anything in training or have you kept it mostly kind of the same for what you've been doing for this specific build?
Speaker 2:Pretty mostly the same. I think there's like definitely some periodization involved with kind of like how the season progresses and like um this, you know, recent phase has been more um speed oriented, I think you know like doing more targeted track workouts to just like really you know I have a really solid base have been putting in really consistent volumes since like January, um. So I think right now it's about, you know, like the hay is kind of in the barn and now it's about just kind of sharpening everything so that you know you're ready to just be like fresh and ready to go and sharp on the day. So cool.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I was talking to Remy LaRue yesterday, um, who's also running the mountain classic, and he gave me he's your teammate, coincidentally Um, he gave me some beta on the course that I didn't realize until, um, he had said something. It's that. I guess there there's another famous is either famous race or something or other that was on that course. So it's not as rugged as, let's say, the short trail or the long trail. It's a little bit more buffed out, a little bit faster. It's just. It's a kind of a different flow to it, if you will, um, compared to some of the other courses. So I think that that bodes pretty well for the runnable climbs which the American the Americans in general tend to be better at. I don't know if you would agree with that, or?
Speaker 2:For sure. I think you know it seems like Americans in particular tend to have kind of a track and cross country background A lot of the time. There are exceptions, obviously, but I think you know the culture, the running culture that we have in the States is definitely more geared towards kind of like flat, fast, you know, road track, cross-country backgrounds. That um courses that are, you know, have more runnable terrain, less technical, um, I think probably play to our advantage, or at least my advantage, I would think you know, relative to some of the other guys.
Speaker 2:Like I know a lot of the europeans kind of get into the sport coming from more of like a mountaineering background or like stuff like that, um, because they don't quite have the same like high school cross country and track into college kind of like collegiate track and cross country pipeline that we do so like they get into it from more of like a technical, mountain, rugged standpoint, um. But yeah, I've also heard that about the, the classic course that you know like there's a little bit of flat and then some steep climbs and downhills but it seems kind of smoother and more runnable and and tailored towards someone who has a little bit more leg speed, I think so. I think that bodes well for someone like me with my running background for sure, and, you know, like Mason Kofi, kind of similar thing, and he's run fast on the roads too. So, yeah, it could work out pretty well for us, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, man, it's good stuff. It's so obviously the um mountain classics the last day, um, are you going to be hanging out like cheering, cheering other teams on? Are you going to be laying low, like what's, what's your game plan for this? Like it's almost like weird. It's like you want to capture that energy but almost like not get, not overdo it, obviously in the days before the race, like how do you, how do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, I mean I'm, I definitely want to be cheering, especially. I mean I'm, I definitely want to be cheering, especially, you know my girlfriend Sydney Peterson's running the vertical and you know Christian and everyone you know like I've got friends doing all the races and so I'm probably going to be out there cheering, ideally, um, but at the same time definitely want to conserve my energy, um, but I think it can be done. I don't want to just sit in the hotel the whole time, definitely want to get the most out of the experience and watch the races and get stoked and inspired for my race on the last day. I it is kind of a bummer, though I I'm jealous of the people who race the first day, cause they just get it done and then they're just partying the rest of the time.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, just how it crumbles. So yeah, it'll be great.
Speaker 1:Save the hardest for last right, Always fun. I guess that's the task, right? Let me ask you this Are you hanging out in Europe then until the Golden Trail World Series final?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah, it's like two weekends apart, so it doesn't really make sense to come back and do all that international travel. So, yeah, I'm going to hang out to come back and do all that international travel. So, yeah, I'm going to hang out. My parents are coming out to Spain to watch world, so hang out with them for a few days after and then fly over to Italy and hang out for the golden trail final.
Speaker 1:So nice little European vacation man Jealous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty, it's been a good summer. We hit Austria, switzerland, now we hit Spain, italy. So doing it all, doing it all, yeah, now we hit spain, italy.
Speaker 1:So doing it all, doing it all, yeah, what's uh? I know this is always a hard question. Um, obviously everyone kind of thinks ahead. What's next after golden trail? Are you gonna take some, take it down, take some downtime in the winter and off season, or do you still have? Uh, is there anything that like kind of piques your interest on the schedule?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the plan right now is to do a UTMB 50K late November, try to qualify for OCC next year. Obviously, you know, we'll see how cooked my body is after Golden Trail, but that's the plan. And then, yeah, I think you know, just listen to the body and definitely I like to take a little break at the end of the season, I think you know, um, but it would also be nice to kind of keep it rolling somewhat and maybe try to run something on the roads in the winters and like kind of use that fitness. Um, but we'll see kind of up in the air. I'm really just focusing on what's in front of me right now and and kind of make those calls as they come.
Speaker 1:Nice. I think it's a smart way to do it. For sure, Taylor, wish you the best of luck, man. I hope it's an amazing day for you. Um, I hope you guys I hope you guys kill it Definitely going to be cheering you guys on and, uh, wishing you the best of luck and safe travels out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, of course We'll see you next time, thank you.
