The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#122 - Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau
What does it take to race at a world-class level when running itself isn’t an option? We sit with Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau to trace a brutal knee injury—down to bone—and the long, confusing road back: tendon thickening, scar pain that burns like hot iron, false starts, and a fitness base built on a handbike, arms-only swims, and an elliptical. Meika is candid about uncertainty and the daily choice to believe that today could be the first day of the comeback. Then we go deep on what that mindset looks like on the start line, from a med-tent finish at Pikes Peak to a podium at the Rut VK, and how trail racing rewards whole-body fitness even when mileage is scarce.
We widen the lens to the life that makes the athlete. Meika's a tri-citizen (United States, France, Canada) who grew up in California splitting time between ocean and Sierra, now based in Boulder’s running community. He talks gardening, ocean kayak fishing with whales and dolphins, and the grounding joy of catching and cooking his own food. We cover Stanford, discovering pro trail running through Megan and David Roche, and why sub-ultra distances still feel like home while 50K races like OCC/CCC pull him toward longer adventures that feel like missions.
The future of the sport takes center stage: how sub-ultra is booming, why FKTs and personal mountain projects should live alongside race series, and the role of storytelling in building real fandom. Meika shares honest takes on sponsorship trends, Brooks’ investment in sub-ultra, anti-doping beyond race-day tests, world championships versus UTMB, and the calendar coordination needed for true head-to-heads. Through it all, he stays focused on longevity and authenticity—keeping the community feel while growing prize money, media, and opportunity.
If this conversation fires you up, tap follow, share it with a friend who needs a spark, and leave a quick rating and review to help more trail fans find the show. Then tell us: what should trail running fix first as it grows?
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello. And today I'm excited to welcome Mika Baldwin Rosio to the podcast. Super excited to have had Mika on for a conversation. I know Mika's been kind of we've been trying to put this together for a minute now, and it's been kind of just a bunch of um you know ups and downs and false starts with Mika really struggling with injury over the past year and a half to two years. So it's been it was really exciting to have Mika on to come over for a conversation and just chat all about you know his struggles and his ability to make it back. Um Mika just recently finished in the top ten of the Pikes Peak ascent as well as took a second place just behind um Cam Smith, who's having a killer season right now at the Rut VK. We talked a lot about Mika's uh just motivators. We talked a lot about his past growing up in California in the Bay Area, um, what gets him excited, as well as hobbies. We talked a lot about fishing um and who he is as a person outside of running. And then we talked about the mental game of running. Um Mika is just an incredibly inspiring human. Uh, for those of you who don't know the story, uh, dude got himself fit off of a handbike trying to get ready for a slew of races over the last two years, um, including the Broken Arrow uh VK in 2024, where he finished just behind Jim Walmsley and battled Christian Allen out for that third spot, um, as well as podium finishes at races like the Rudd VK just behind Cam Smith, who's having a banner season, um, as well as many others. So Mika is just one incredibly inspiring human. I hope you guys take a lot away uh from this episode. There's a lot of really good stuff in there. Um, like I said, we get into Mika's motivators, his whys, what interests him, um, and just where he wants the sport to go. So without further ado, uh, Mika Baldwin Ruzio. Ladies and gentlemen, sweet! Mika Bodin Rousseau. Close. Close enough, yes. Sorry that you could all right. How do you pronounce the last name? You could tell it for the audience so that way they can get it correct.
SPEAKER_01:Uh that would be Baudouin Rousseau.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, dude, I love it. I love it. I wish I had a French accent or like some semblance of it. I gotta tell you. So, welcome to the podcast, man. This is something I've been wanting to do for a long time. I know we had kind of put it off after last year on pikes, and I think this is as good a time ever to have you on the podcast. So I'm excited to have you, and thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thanks so much for having me on. And yeah, it it feels like this this has been a long time coming because we've been talking about it for a while, and then yeah, a bunch of stuff happened with the injury and everything. And so I'm glad to finally be on and get to chat with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Dude, it's kind of crazy. I feel like you've been kind of working through this knee injury for a long time, but have still been able to kind of throw in races and like put stuff on the calendar. Maybe, maybe talk a little bit about what you've been working through and kind of going through over the last two years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. So yeah, took a pretty bad fall in the broken arrow sky race back in 2024. And I was actually coming back from another much more minor injury going into that. So I didn't quite have the training black I wanted to. But yeah, just sliced my knee open like down to the bone. And initially we thought it was like, oh, just like classic shell running fall, like need a ton of stitches, but like, you know, things are gonna be bit like good again, like pretty soon after. And yeah, it was not that. Um, I think the the tendon attachment um and the quad tendon were also impacted in the fall. And so yeah, I've tried to come back. I think this would be my sixth time currently since that injury. Um and yeah, fingers crossed that this one's this one's the one that gets me back to where I want to be. But I've had a lot of yeah, mixed builds in that process where I, you know, am able to get back for a couple races and then things kind of go downhill from there. Um, and I'm happy to talk more about like the training and like the thought process behind that more too. But yeah, it's definitely been a roller coaster. And uh I will say I'm grateful to have gotten racism et al through a lot of this because um yeah, a lot of those races that I've done have like required very creative training methodologies.
SPEAKER_00:Let's talk about that. Let's get into it. I know we'll introduce you and go into your background later, but like I gotta I gotta ask about the handbike and and how you how you've been able to just accumulate fitness and even staying fit, given the fact that you've had limited usage of the knee.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. It's required a lot of creativity and a lot of mental grit, I would say. I mean, you think about like every like one of the most heinous forms of crash training that an athlete would have to do to stay in shape. And that's what I've been limited to with the nature of this injury. Like, I would love to be able to bike and like spend lots of time outdoors, but the reality of it is that like knee flexion and especially putting out power under um when the knee is flexed has been like one of the major limiting factors. And so I actually can't really bike. Um I I mean I'm getting there, but like in in in in the definitely in the most acute stage of the injury, I couldn't like bike at all. And so I was doing initially a lot of arm biking and arms only swimming. So I would do like up to I think my longest day, I did three hours of total uh arms only cardio. Um, I would usually like mix it up like like an hour of like arm biking and then an hour of arms only swimming, but I would do like occasionally like two and a half hour arm bikes or uh at one point I did like a three-hour arms only swim. Um and yeah, I mean that was like in the worst stage of it. I also did a good amount of like one-legged biking um to try like after the accident two to try to like keep my legs strong, even though I couldn't do anything with one of them. And then from there progressed to like at this stage right now, like elliptical is the main form of crashing where I get my my volume. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Can you I mean you can go into this as much as you'd like to? Just I think it's really important for to paint in a picture for the audience just mentally, what that must have gone through. Not just going getting injured, but also getting injured, having a lot of false starts to come back and then have to go back down into the pain cave and restart this process. How has that been mentally? It's it can't be easy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's the the hardest thing. I would say, like, yeah, the past year and a half has probably been one of the hardest or has required the most mental gymnastics um from me to just stay positive and stay in it. It's yeah, the uncertainty is definitely the worst part of it because I mean you you have all these stories of horrible injuries in sports, and you know, sometimes it's career-ending, sometimes people defy the odds and make these amazing comebacks. And you know, sometimes you look at those stories and it seems inevitable in hindsight that like, oh, if you never give up, like you're gonna get through it and you're gonna get back to where you were. But the reality of the reality of it is like in the moment when you're in it, when you're like in the thick of it with the uncertainty, like it really doesn't feel that way. And you you don't know if it's a month, two months, six months, a year, like you don't know how long it'll it'll be. But I think one of the things I've really anchored onto during that process is you know, the beautiful part of not knowing is that you could wake up the next day, and that could be the first day of an upward trajectory that gets to back you back to where you want to be. And so what I've constantly been doing throughout this process is just waking up every single day, believing that that day could be the first day of the comeback.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I love that. That's a beautiful answer. And I appreciate you being candid. You know, it's I I can't imagine, especially, I mean, as athletes, we identify so much with running. I mean, you are someone that's done it for a very long time, if not a large chunk of your existence. So, one, I find it cool that you also have other hobbies and we'll talk about that as well. But two, I just love the mindset and your ability to kind of lock in and believe that your best days are still ahead of you because they absolutely are. One thing I do find really interesting too is dude, how are you able to get that fit and stuff, or at least like maintain your fitness to show up at like the Rut VK and still get second place and show up at Pike's Peak and still run in the top 10, given that you've had long layoffs in between? Like how, like, I I know you talked about like the hand crank and the bike and stuff like that, but how are you able to like understand like where your fitness is during that time? Like get confidence through some of these workouts and kind of understand, like, okay, like I I can show up at Pikes and still run a top 10 time, or I could show up at the rut and still give Cam uh, you know, who's had a great season, an amazing season, still be able to compete with him. Like, how have you been able to kind of keep tabs on fitness like that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's definitely that's a great question, and it's definitely challenging. I would say for me, like I love racing so much. Like trail running is my favorite thing in the world, and racing is my favorite part of trail running. And to me, just you know, getting to do getting to race, getting to do this, like that's the most important part. And so, you know, when I'm lining up on the start line of a race, like as long as I'm not taking any health risks, I'm not like uh necessarily afraid of like having a performance that could be embarrassing compared to what my top form would be if I was like fully healthy and and training normally. And so yeah, I think I just show up with the intent of giving a hundred percent of what I have to give on the day, no matter what. And you know, that turns out to to work pretty well sometimes, but there's also like definitely a lot of hard work that goes behind that. You know, I like even though I'm not running a lot of volume, um, you know, I'm still getting like about two hours or more of aerobic volume every single day training in creative ways. I'm doing like you know, hours and hours of PT and strength every week. I'm doing all the little things that I can to stay in shape and build fitness in ways that are like not necessarily running mileage related. And I'm still doing like very hard workouts. And I honestly that's one of the beautiful things about uh trail running is like it rewards fitness. You don't like obviously you need running specific fitness, but if you're fit, like you're probably gonna do all right. And yeah, that's one of the parts of the sport that I'm most grateful for, especially with this this injury process.
SPEAKER_00:That's so crazy, man. On the topic of the mental battle and your ability, one of the things I just admire so much about you, and I've got to see it now kind of twice in a row in back-to-pack pikes years, where dude, you could just find this like you could go into the well and just like live there. Like you've almost like, what was it last year? You like your SPO2 levels were like super low and you like passed out like two years in a row, isn't that right, or something like that? Yeah, the people at the in the pike speaking med tent know me quite well. Dude, talk, talk about like I mean, uh I've had it a couple times where I've gone so hard, like the vision started closing in, but I've never actually like been able to force myself to pass out, like going as hard as I possibly can. How were you able to do that? Like, I like it's just all the mental things like trying to tell you, like, hey, buddy, slow down, and you're just able to override that. Like, how are you how are you able to do that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something about pikes. I don't know if it's related to my physiology or but I've always struggled up there in the high country. Like, I mean, I've done it three years in a row now, and all three years I've ended up in the med tent after the the la the past two, and I mean this year in particular have definitely been the most dramatic. Like this year they had to hook me up to pure oxygen because I was just like, yeah, crazy low spO2 levels and like didn't really know where I was and like kind of like falling asleep. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I feel like I just love pushing myself and just yeah, giving everything I have no matter what. And so that's kind of always what anchors my racing mentality. And you know, with this year in particular, like something just felt wrong from the gun. Like I've never had that feeling in a race before, but like we were like half a mile on the race, and I was wondering if I should drop out because the effort level just felt way off what it should be. And I mean, I know I'm not in my best shape, but it there was just something else that was wrong that day. And what I kept coming back to in those early miles as I was like, you know, mentally trying to decide if it was a good idea to keep going, was that like, you know, I haven't been able to do this for almost a year, and so just the gratefulness of being able to race is huge. And so even if I'm not having the best day, like I'm gonna give absolutely everything I have and make the most of it. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude, your brain, like you need to be studied. You need a white paper written on you. It's so cool. Um where are we at now, if you don't mind being candid, like about where you're at with the injury? Are you do you think you're on the back end of it now? I mean, you're been able to throw in what three races now this season, um, or at least on this back end of September. Like, where are you at now with just the comeback?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. And I mean, all honesty, it's it's hard to say, you know. Like people like to say, like, oh, like he's back. And like, I like it's it's said with good intention, but there's almost a part of me that like cringes a little bit at that because you know, I definitely don't feel back, both with my training and where I'm at, like I'm still having some chronic pain, and there's like definitely some neurological symptoms with the knee that we're still trying to tease out. Like one of the really weird things with this injury is that I'll get this like very intense burning pain on the scar from the original accent. So it feels like somebody's pressing like hot iron against my skin. It's very, very intense. And that'll happen like during exercise, sometimes like randomly, like while sitting down, if like if clothing brushes against it. Um so there's that, and then there's also pain in the tendon. And yeah, it's been really hard to tease out like what uh pain I can ignore and what pain I need to pay attention to. Because as far as like MRIs and imaging goes, we've addressed most of the obvious things that are wrong with that area. I mean, I obviously have like still a good amount of scar tissue and like tendon thickening. And if you look at my patella under ultrasound, it looks like somebody took like a spoon to the top of it and just scooped out a piece. Um, but yeah, it's it so it's hard to say, but I am optimistic that we've you know we've fixed a lot of the obvious things and I'm hoping that you know what's left is more of like a chronic pain neurological thing that can be worked through. So I am like, you know, still eyeing some uh other races for the rest of of 2025 and definitely have hopes of competing more. And yeah, I'm just really hopeful that I can just keep progressing slowly but surely. And then like the most important thing is obviously just to have a full schedule in 2026.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I hope so, man. I'm I'm I'm rooting for you. Cheering for it. It'll be fun to have you back. Have you considered um like have you looked in like stem cells and stuff like that? I know that's a like a very common thing with a lot of professional athletes. Like you see fighters go and get stem cells down in like South America and like Tijuana and stuff like that. I don't even know if that's like you saw the wada, but like it's an idea. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, for sure. Like a couple people have mentioned that to me. And I think I mean, at least where I'm at right now, it's like I'm gonna see if this trajectory keeps going in a positive direction. And I think you know, if I run into more issues as I keep building things up, that might be something I'll consider for the end of this year before like hopefully being like fully good for 2026. Um, but I mean I've tried a lot of things. Like I've seen like eight different doctors for this, and I mean countless more PTs, Kairos, like bodyworker type people. And one of the hardest things has been that like like from a from a pain perspective and like an imaging perspective, like we haven't there, like there hasn't, I mean, there there are things that are wrong with my knee and with that area from the fall, but there's like you know, it would almost meet like from a mental perspective, it would always be more comforting if it was like, oh, like you fractured your patella, or like, oh, like there's like like you tore this like ligament or something, like we can fix that. And what like what a lot of what a lot of it has been is like okay, there's like a couple of these things that are like abnormal or like like different and like potentially wrong with that area as a result of the fall, but those things aren't necessarily pathological. Um like for example, I have like this popping in my knee every time I bend it past a certain point because of like the scar tissue and like the tendon thickening that resulted from the accident. And so that's like not necessarily like a it's not necessarily like that that's not necessarily causing the pain, but should it be something that like we uh try to fix? So there's been a lot of things like that where it's just like yeah, a lot of a lot of uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, almost a lot of like weird gray area. Like you said, like it's one thing if it's a torn tendon or a broken bone, those things can be fixed, but it's when there's a lot of different little things that you can kind of address and play with and you're not sure, it's just like it creates a lot of uncertainty. So I can understand that. That's uh yeah, dude. It's it's it's it's crazy that with all the medical technology we have these days, there's still some things that slip under the radar and it's kind of difficult to figure out.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. I mean, I think it's like a good reality check as in with with all things that we often we often get a false sense of security in thinking that we know more than we do. But there's so much still out there that needs to be discovered and learned. And I that's a a cool part of it too.
SPEAKER_00:It's true. That's very true. All right, let's let's shift focus a little bit. I want to learn more about you as the person. Um, one of the things I found interesting, I was listening to a podcast that the subhub did with you, and I didn't realize that you you technically are you're tri you're a tri-citizen, right? Like you're a citizen of the United States, France, and um, and Canada. How do you how what's your background? Like, are you originally like is your family French Canadian or how did how did that come about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question. And yeah, my family is so I was actually born in California in the US, but I mean my whole family is French Canadian and like aside from my parents, like everybody's in Quebec. And so I kind of got those uh nationalities uh through through them. And yeah, French is my my first language, it's what we we speak at home, and yeah, it's it's cool to you know have you know, I wish the family uh was a little bit closer because Quebec's kind of on the other side of the the continent, but you know, we always make a trip out there every year, and it's cool to spend time over there. It's so so green and beautiful and different from California and Colorado. So it's yeah, it's always fun spending time out there.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it's beautiful. Have you bonded all with teammate Remy Larue who lives in Quebec?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've we've chatted we've chatted a good bit. Um it's fun to be able to talk in French to some to somebody on the on the Brooks team. And uh yeah, definitely looking forward to spending more time with him. I think we might connect. I'm hoping to run Canadian Champs uh coming up in October. So uh hoping to share some miles with him in Quebec uh when I'm over there.
SPEAKER_00:That's a beautiful race. That's a great race that I know. I've had I've contacted and talked with them a few times. How do you pronounce it? Is it DeFi Dick I I always say DeFi decalur, but I I'm I'm such a yeah American. Like I don't know. How would you pronounce that?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, if you were to say it in French, it would be Defi des couleurs.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay. All right. That's yeah, I'm not, I gotta I gotta improve.
SPEAKER_01:Ah, you're good. You're crushing it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm trying, I'm trying. Actually, I yeah, there's a lot of new improvements. So you're living you're based out of Boulder now, is that correct?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I moved to Colorado last year, and yeah, I've been based out of Boulder since then. Uh it's just such a great place to train and live. I mean, you get altitude, like good, good trail access, and I mean, far and away, the the best part is just the running community. Like everybody here is just so hyped on the outdoors and and running and trail running. And so yeah, the community is incredible and it's just great to be a part of it. Dude, yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's cool. Have you uh not to shift gears too much because I wanted to talk to you about like hobbies. One of the things I really admired about you, um, I come from a background, a lot of fishing. I grew up in South Florida, um, and a lot of deep sea fishing and estuary fishing and just cool stuff that's awesome. So I saw you doing a lot of it. Have you bonded at all with uh Taylor? I know Taylor Stack is like an insane fly fisherman, like it's like super into it. Have you guys uh gotten out to fly fish at all?
SPEAKER_01:Not yet. We've been we've been meaning to and we we've talked about it several times. Um yeah, he like I feel like there's definitely like a super cool aspect of like combining running and fishing, where you just go to these beautiful alpine lakes and you know fish and then run back down. Um I actually haven't don't have much of a background in fly fishing. Uh kind of grow up growing up in California, yeah, did a ton of ocean fishing, ton of deep sea kayak fishing. Um, that's probably my favorite kind of fishing, it's just like going out in the kayak, like on the ocean, just like far from shore, and just like you just see and experience so much out there. Um, but I do also do a lot of like spin fishing, freshwater fishing, and yeah, learning to fly fish has definitely been on the bucket list for a while. So I'm hoping uh yeah, Taylor might be able to help me with that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I think that's yeah, it's cool. He introduced me to some of these, like there's a couple races out here in Colorado where you'll I think you're like measured or you get like a certain time boost based off of not just distance, but also like the size of the fish that you catch or the species or something like that. There's it's it's kind of interesting. Like, definitely something like if you're looking for like a like a different hobby out there, and this is for listeners too. Like, there's some actual races that involve fly fishing in Colorado and running, which is kind of different.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, the flyathlon seemed super cool.
SPEAKER_00:Fly athlon. So that's what it's called. It's fly athlon. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I think you have I think you have to fly fish. So that's that's another reason why I need to learn.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. Yeah, you can win the running part. It's the yeah, it's the fly fishing part. Let's talk a little a little bit more about the kayak. Some dude, I mean, some of your stories are were just incredible. I know for semi-recently you'd post a few posted a few uh of you just like ocean kayaking and stuff like that. Like talk about those experiences. Like, is there anything that sticks out to you that's like um I don't know, it's it's different from running in the sense where it it's a hobby, it's something else to do, but it almost like separates you and connects you a little bit more of nature. Whereas running, I feel like for all of us can be such a more of an intensive kind of thing. Um does it ground you more? Like, what is it about fishing that you that connects you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, for me, I think with like pretty much everything in my life, it's just about like adventure and like living a cool story and like chasing those experiences that like are cool stories. And that's just led to a lot of different outdoor hobbies and activities. And yeah, fishing has always been one of my favorite things like from a young kid. Like I ended up bonding with like when I was like five years old, I like bonded with this like old fisherman at the farmer's market, like total like old man of the sea, like personality, like long, long white beard, like Santa Claus looked like Santa Claus. And uh yeah, he took me out on his like boat a couple times fishing, and so yeah, it's just like always been for me just like a super fun way to engage with nature and like also put like food on the table that like comes from a a source that's sustainable and that like you know where it you know where it where it came from. Uh and there's something very rewarding about like going out and you know getting food for your family and then like cooking it. Um and yeah, like ocean kayak fishing has I feel like embodies like all of those qualities for me of like you know, it's always an adventure out there, you're always gonna see like tons of wildlife, like whales, dolphins, uh sea otters, sharks sometimes.
SPEAKER_00:Have you seen a great have you bumped in any great whites out there?
SPEAKER_01:I I've seen several over the years, actually. Yeah, that's cool. Um the biggest one I've seen was about 13 feet. That's genius.
SPEAKER_00:That's bigger than the kayak, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like it is bigger than the kayak, yeah. Um, but like for the most part, they they just like you know, if you leave them alone, they they leave you alone. But yeah, lots of magical experiences out there. Like I've had like um like humpback whales come like like lunch feed just like a couple feet away from the kayak. Um, like they were like going after like this school of anchovies, and I was just like floating there. I was I was not fishing because I was just looking at the whales, but it's just like such a cool moment. Um, and with dolphins too, like, yeah. I mean, I feel like the California coastline is just blessed with just so much cool wildlife, and it's just always like you you feel like a very one with the ocean out there on a kayak. Like I would never want to go out there in like a motorboat. I mean, it would it would just be a different experience, but like with the kayak, you just feel like very close to the ocean, like every wave moves the boat in a meaningful way that you like sometimes have to adjust for with the rudder to not get capsized and whatnot. So yeah, it's just a very grounding uh experience.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting, dude. I gotta try it. I mean, I don't know. Back home, my dad's got a couple kayaks, and but I never go out with them. It's more, it's not the like the ocean kayak where you can like just use your feet, it's more so just like an actual like you gotta do the whole like canoe kayak thing.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um but yeah, like it's a little more complicated. But and the ocean is always a bit more rough there. Um yeah, so interesting. What um what was it like growing up in California for you? I mean, uh from your background, it seems like you had access both to the Sierra and the ocean. It's had to have like really shaped who you are as a person today.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think yeah, growing up in California was was such a a blessing, and you know, even though the the Bay Area isn't like, you know, your stereotypical mountain town where like a lot of uh trailrunners and mountain athletes come from, it just like afforded me the luxury of being able to do a lot of different outdoor hobbies. And so, and it's like pretty nice year-round, which is a plus because I I love gardening and uh yeah, growing my like I had this big garden back home where I would like grow a ton of fruits and veggies. Um, so that was another like fun thing that California was was awesome for. But yeah, I mean like there's great trowning in the Bay Area and the Sierras are right there, and like my family was super outdoorsy, and so we would you know go up to the Sierras like all the time growing up as a kid, and then a little bit like when I was in middle school, we act my family actually like got a small cabin up there, and so like starting then we would like literally be up there like every single weekend. Um and so yeah, it was just like an amazing way, like just so many different outdoor activities, like right at your fingertips. And you know, growing up, I you know, n didn't really spend any time on screens, you know, never never played video games. Like I didn't have a smartphone until college. And so like truly every single second of free time that I had, I would direct. Towards doing some something outdoors or learning something new. And yeah, just so many fond memories and incredible experiences from growing up there and having lots of time, lots of time to do stuff outdoors. And it, yeah, I do think it really shaped me into who I am today.
SPEAKER_00:So cool. Let's talk Stanford. What was it like going to? I mean, obviously, I don't want to say it was in your backyard, but like in the greater San Francisco area, Stanford's not far. Palo Alto is relatively close. What was the recruitment process like to go run there? Or did you walk on? Like, how did the process go to uh run at Stanford?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I was, I was, I was recruited to to go there. And funny enough, uh, when I was like, so I grew up playing soccer. And as a kid, my dream was always to go play soccer for Stanford and then professionally afterwards. Um, so Stanford was always like, I mean, it's obviously like a great school. Uh my dad also went there for grad school and local. So it was like always kind of like a school that I like was always on my radar as I was thinking about colleges. And yeah, was fortunate enough to have like a really great season, my senior cross-country uh season in high school. And so I was recruited to to run for them. And yeah, it was definitely like I uh yeah, the coaches that were there when I started I really, really liked. And so it was uh there was there was a later a later coaching change, but it was yeah, it was cool to be close to home and like still be able to do a lot of things that I was doing in in the high school, like in terms of like outdoors activities. And obviously the team was top-notch.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Cool that cool to train with a lot of other really good runners.
SPEAKER_00:Did you ever you're somewhat in the ballpark of age-wise of Garrett Corcoran? Did you guys ever race each other when he went in the pack 12?
SPEAKER_01:I don't think we ever raced each other. Funny enough though, I actually did visit do an official visit to Cal. Um, and so I did uh meet him and interact with him there. But we we may have overlapped one year. I think he may have been yeah, actually, yes, we did overlap. So my freshman year uh was his last year at Cal. And so we did race uh Pac-12s and uh nationals that year in cross country.
SPEAKER_00:What a small world. That's so crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I feel like and I feel like there's like more and more like NTAA people that are like transitioning to trails, which is cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but Dan Kurtz was in the mix during that time as well. Like I think he's a little bit, I think he's a little bit older. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we didn't we didn't overlap in college.
SPEAKER_00:No, okay, so there's there's a few, but it's just interesting. Yeah, how many folks for at that higher D1 level, like the you know, strong pac-12 and some of those bigger schools, yeah, really coming out and showing up on the trails now, which is is very entertaining. It's kind of interesting. Did you on that thread, like, were you aware that like trails could be like a thing around when by the time you were coming out? Or was it more so the trail team that kind of showed you that like this could be like a career?
SPEAKER_01:No, I so for me it was like from basically from day one of college, my dream was to run professionally on the trails uh post-collegiately. So it was actually kind of an interesting story because I so I mean, as I mentioned, like I you know didn't grow up on social media or like on my phone at all. So I didn't really have any connection to the running world in terms of like being able to discover the competitive side of trail running. But I spent my entire childhood like running on trails, like even like even long before I was a runner, like you know, I was just bombing these technical descents because it was fun. Um and when I started college, um, Megan Roche was doing her PhD research on the Stanford team. And so I met the Roches that way, and that was what kind of opened my eyes to like that you know, competitive troll learning actually did exist. And you know, from that that was kind of like an aha moment where I'd never really thought about running professionally before then. But as soon as I realized that running professionally on the trails was a potential career path, it was like, oh, this is like absolutely what I want to do. Like, this is the dream. And so, like throughout college, that was like all I was thinking about.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, dude. So shout out to Megan and David for uh they've brought so many new people and so many interesting characters into the sport. I like I love how much like recruitment and overlap that there's been. So that is a really cool that like you knew that this was the thing. It's funny, I meet so many people that are like, oh, you know, I was on YouTube and I saw a video of Anton running shirtless on the grand or on Long's Peak, and it's like that's got what people got, you know, what got them excited about the sport. Um, but it's interesting to you that like you got to meet one of the I mean, obviously David is an extremely crazy good athlete, so is Megan in her own right, but like it's two of the best coaches in the sport uh to be able to kind of like lure you in. Um so that's interesting. Like, so it never did it ever cross your mind to possibly like want to continue on to the track or in in some other way maybe like transition onto the roads, or it was just always trail.
SPEAKER_01:It was pretty much always trails for me. You know, I think like if I'd been offered a like a pro-road contract coming out of college, I think I I probably would have accepted. But trail running and mountain running is really what I find what is most meaningful to me because it it it kind of revolves around all the things that I would be doing anyway and that I love most and that I'm most passionate about. Track is like I don't know, uh that's much much less appealing to me. Um, both by the nature of it, and I'm also like I'm also not that good at it. Um, I just don't have that much leg speed. So like I've never closed faster than a 63 in anything longer than a mile. So it was always very frustrating for me in like a lot of these NAA, like 10k races, for example, where it's like you just have this big pack of guys that's going around the track for you know 24 laps, and then it all comes down to who can kick the fastest on the last lap. And I've just never had that leg speed. You know, I feel like I could keep going, but I can't turn over past a certain point. And so that was kind of the appeal, another part of the appeal of like these longer races that are more about how long you can suffer for two hours.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. You're an interesting person to me because you come from such a high caliber background, you know, cross-country track and field, obviously, a strong D1 pedigree where it's so performance-based. And obviously, you race a ton of subulture races, which are extremely performance-based as well. But you also strike me with this, there's this dichotomy of you of like also loving adventure and just loving spending time in the mountains. Um does that bring any interest in like potential FKTs in the future? Is there anything like any like up-down mountain classic, like something like the grand or something that is like very interesting to you from Peak perspective, uh, that also has a ton of adventure that maybe calls to you?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. I I can go on about this for a long time. I have probably like a multi-page document of these like mountain projects and FKTs that I just want to go after at some point. I think, you know, I I think if I hadn't um gotten injured at the end of my first trail season, you would have definitely seen me doing a lot of that in 2024. You know, I think, I mean, the grant like the grand that you just brought up, like I pitched that to Brooks like within like a month of signing that it was something that I wanted to do. Um, you know, Mount Shasta was like my first, like I when I climbed it from the north side back in 2019 or 2020 or something, that was like my first like really big mountain. And like from that day, like I'm not gonna absolutely want to go for the the FKT on that at some point. And there's just like so many other ones that I can just keep going on. But yeah, it's definitely something that I want to make time for in my schedule in future years, so that my year just isn't solely about racing, it's also about this adventure aspect and you know doing these really cool things in the mountains.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's interesting, right? Like you've seen, you know, in years past, like Michelino with the grand, right? Then you see Nadir kind of chasing Killian's record on the Matterhorn. I just find it really interesting because it's not something we see a ton of on our sub Ultra scene where athletes are kind of mixing it up in both. The high caliber FKT scene, like that form of expression, if you will, as well as maybe racing on the the Cirque series or the Golden Trail series or these more competitive racing series. You don't see a lot of athletes doing a ton of both. More so it's an athlete going and doing just the series, like for instance, like Remy LaRue, your teammate. I think he raced like 26 times already this season. It's crazy. Yeah, he's got to be super tired. But like it's I think, and you tell me this. Do you think a world exists where you can kind of have both uh in the future of the sport, where you can have this dichotomy of being able to express yourself by doing you know really cool ridge link ups and FKTs, things that you know are a little more expressive than just a race, for instance, like but also be able to race. Can you can you is do you think that a world exists where you can do both as a professional?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And I think like for me personally, at least, like that is the ideal world. I think those projects are the kind of things that keep you energized and keep you just really jazzed about the sport and running and performing in the mountains, especially when they have like personal significance. You know, I think that's probably one of the things that uh leads to a lot of longevity in the sport, from a mental standpoint at least, is being able to pursue your own projects. And I think, yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, one of the reasons uh, you know, maybe we haven't seen as much of that in the past is I think there's definitely you know more financial incentive with how contracts are structured to you know go to these high-performing races and and do well. So I think it it comes down to like the athlete kind of making the conscious decision to pursue those things and to like you know, maybe put a little bit of pressure on the brand to support those things. But I think the sport is absolutely going in that direction. I mean, I think you know, outdoor storytelling has always been something that I've been fascinated by and that I think is like super cool and that I think is like definitely growing a lot. And I think the sport is heading in a direction where I think there's gonna be a little bit more space for that and there's gonna be more interest for that, especially as the you know, the technology to film these feats uh keeps getting better. You know, I think, yeah, those those are the stories that are gonna inspire day-to-day people more than you know, watching this race.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I couldn't agree more. I think that's how I also think that's how we attract new few people into the sport. I think it's how you sell shoes. I think there's there's just a lot of I think it's a win-win from a brand's perspective of storytelling to be able to, you know, talk about both. But it it would be cool to see. I don't know if cool is the right word. I think it would be exciting to see as the sport grows and develops and as we professionalize more as a sport to have that dichotomy to be able to do both. Um let me pivot really quick. I want to talk to you about Brooks because you're a member of the Brooks team. I have to say, if there's any team that deserves our flowers, especially over this year, it's just been the amount of subulture athletes and the amount of investment that they've put into our sport, um, especially on the American side this year, that it's been so visible with athletes like Sidney Peterson, Taylor Stack, Courtney Coppinger, yourself, and just plenty others I haven't even mentioned, but it's just been so cool to see like the team explode and really come onto the scene this year. Can you talk a little bit about what it's like being on a team and or being on that team and just what it's like running for that brand?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Brooks is like definitely has a special place in my heart. I think, you know, there's they're one of those brands where they they make good shoes, but they're also a great company and they really treat their athletes well. And I think they're also one of the brands that has definitely invested most in the subultra space, which I mean, I think the subultra space is gonna grow a lot over the next couple of years. Um is gonna see a lot more uh you know, high calibrants, double-A people entering the space and a lot more like fandom from people that maybe typically follow track and road. But yeah, it's just been so cool to see the team grow and to have this like yeah, really strong team community. Like the Brooks team is just the best. Like, we're just like all so supportive of each other and really, really great team culture. And Brooks definitely puts a lot of effort into that with like the like getting team camps organized for us so we can spend time with each other. And yeah, uh Brooks is Brooks is a great brand.
SPEAKER_00:So cool. What's the new shoe you guys dropped? I haven't got a chance to see it in the wild yet, but I've seen Remy in it a few times. I've seen Dan run in it. What's what's it called?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so we have the the Cascadia Elite that is gonna come out in 2026, and yeah, that's gonna be Brooks' carbon-plated trail shoe. Which uh yeah, I've definitely I've definitely enjoyed the runs that I've done in it so far. Very cool, very cool.
SPEAKER_00:No, I appreciate you being candid about it. It's it's interesting to me, um, just like the investment and just the amount like in a sport where I feel like we can have both, it seems like I see a lot of brands, and this is okay, like there's nothing wrong with it, but I just see a lot of brands with a very heavy ultra focus. And I just think there's so much, so much to be told, such a good story to be talked about when it comes to these VKs, the mountain classics, even up to the marathon and and the golden trail series races. Like, there's a lot of discussion to be had there, a lot of stories to be told, and it's cool to see a brand like and more, hopefully more brands start to invest that way and support more of the athletes in the space. Um, especially because you know, it's like we have so much depth, and I don't want to say it's more depth than ultra, it's it's just a different sport, it's a different conversation. It's just that I've found more and more athletes to be unsponsored on the sub ultra end. Whereas I feel like if someone cranks one out of the park on the ultra end, it's very easy for them, easier. I've seen them get contracts quicker. Whereas on the subultra side, I see people get contracts not as fast. It takes a lot longer. Have you noticed that? Like, what's your take on that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think you know, the roots of trail running are ultra races. And so I think a lot of brands are still stuck in that old way of thinking of oh, trail running is is ultra running. And if we want to have trail running athletes, like they should be doing ultras. But yeah, I mean, I think the landscape is definitely changing. And yeah, I think I I agree with you. I do think it is I think historically it's been a lot harder for athletes to get sponsored in the subultra space. I think that is about to change, and I think it uh may soon maybe be easier. Um just with like uh Golden Trail series just really pushing for more media coverage in that space. Uh I think maybe one of the reasons you know it could be easier to get sponsored in ultra running is because you you just can't race as much. Yeah. And so when you're towing the line of these big races, like there's inevitably gonna be a couple of the best people in the world that aren't there because they're focusing on another race that might be like three months away, but you know, they can't do 200 mile or 200 milers like back to back like that, or they choose not to to try to really focus on the other one. Whereas most subulture races, like most golden trail races, like you're gonna have almost everybody lining up and going for it at each one of those races. So it's harder to have like a seemingly breakout performance in that space when everybody is doing all the races. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's a really good way to put it. That's a great perspective. I yeah, it's it's I don't know. It's uh it's really cool. And you hit on something that I really appreciate too, is you said something in regards to the fandom, growing the fandom. The fandom of the sport has got to grow. I mean, that's like kind of one of my missions with this podcast is to continue to develop and like get people excited about our our sport, you know, as it continues to grow and develop. What do you think we can do, not just as athletes, but as people in the sport with a voice? Like, how how does the how does the fandom continue to grow? Like, what what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01:I think it also comes down to telling good stories. You know, I think that's what people are interested in these days, or just in general, um, is people you know what attracts people is real stories of real people accomplishing like really cool things. And I think Golden Trail has done a good job at that. Very good. Um, with trying to bring in a like kind of having these like characters um in the Golden Trail series that they that they follow on that like people can like be more in tri like it's almost like a reality TV show, and sometimes I think I do think they push it too far. Um and they definitely like try to pit people against each other, but I do think that you know they're onto something there where you know people are what people are attracted to is these like cool stories, and yeah, I mean media coverage too of so well choices is just very exciting if you can get like photographers to film like some of the technical descent portions. And I this is I'm going a little bit on a tangent here, but I think one of the other really cool aspects of trail racing compared to like track or road is that you have like the races. If there was a way to like film continuously, I think the races would be a lot more exciting because it's not like when you're off the back in a track race or a road race, like it's pretty much over. Like the people that are pushing the pace up front are gonna keep pushing the pace up front, and people are just gonna progressively drop off. But in a trail race, you have these constant fluxes as the terrain changes, where somebody's a better climber, somebody's a better descender, somebody's a better technical descender, somebody's a better steep climber versus like a runnable section. And so, you know, you can have these constant place changes throughout the race. You can have people making up, you know, one or two minutes of time on a descent or on a climb. And so I think it just makes it a lot more exciting to watch. And I think that aspect of racing needs to be highlighted more, in my opinion. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:In in the you know what? I think it's the showing the stories of how it's unfolding during the race. Like, for instance, it could be as short as a VK or as long as something in the Golden Trail that does a really good job about that. But I also think, too, there's a lot to be told about the athlete stories. Like, I find it so bizarre that like you find how you have someone in the sport like Joe Gray, who's been in the sport forever, right? Has won more things than anyone else. And yeah, the dude's got like, I don't know, 15,000 followers, but like you look at someone like Killian who's got like almost a million followers or over something like that. And it's just like, well, the stories were told through Solomon TV really well for someone like Killian to build this aura and this mythos of who this human was and is and what he continues to do. Whereas I almost feel like there was less storytelling on someone like Joe. So people don't really know as much about him as they should. And so with that, like I just think that there's so much opportunity there to talk about the stories of these folks and you know what goes into these performances on race day and then what it looks like on race day. If you if even if you have a bad day or if you have a good day, you know, there's there's just a lot there to be told. And I think Ultra just does such a damn good job of capturing that. And that's something we need to roll into the sport. And uh, I think it's almost an easier sell on the subulture side because the races are shorter, that it's something easier to talk about. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think one of the other interesting things with Killian too is I think you know, the the things he does outside of races, I think you know, I think that's what adds to his um, you know, his like legendary status among people that aren't even necessarily runners, yeah, is all these adventures that he plans out and is super passionate about that he does between races. And I think yeah, that's that's the reason that he has kind of risen to the point that he has in terms of like social media followers and whatnot. People like stories and adventures.
SPEAKER_00:And I think he's in a kind of class in a lot of ways where he's challenged the norms where you know people go to Ultra and stay in Ultra. People go in sub Ultra and a lot of times stay in sub Ultra. Where Killian has so much range that it doesn't even matter. He changed, he he challenged and then he goes and does something like Everest twice, you know, and it's like okay, like there is whatever people preconceived as a specific norm or try to fit this athlete in a box, you can't really do that with him because he's does just about everything, which is I find super interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, and that's like one of the parts aspects of him that I admire most, is that like, you know, I'm sure he had a lot of difficult discussions with brands in terms of doing the things that he was passionate about and the things that he wanted to do versus what they wanted him to do. And so, yeah, I think that's another like like I tip my hat to him for that.
SPEAKER_00:He's an interesting character. I I gotta ask you, I I've been asking this everybody lately, as far as like the play, like people that have voices in the sport or where they want it to go. So I gotta ask you, like, as the sport continues to professionalize, and you're very young in the sport, like you've got your your best days are still ahead of you, and you're just only gonna get better and continue to develop. So, like, where do you want to see the sport go? Like, do you think it's gonna be an Olympic sport? Do you think it's not? Like, what what do you want to see out of it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think it would be really cool for it to become an Olympic sport and to just get more people excited about it. And like, as an athlete, like who doesn't want to compete on the Olympic stage in their sport? Like, that would be so cool. I do think, though, there's a lot of things that need to be adjusted as the sport grows, you know, as there's more professionalization, as there's more prize money, as there's more media exposure, uh, you know, I do think we're gonna need better uh doping controls within the sport. And I do think, you know, I think uh it the sport is definitely gonna change, not necessarily in a bad way, but I think as a community, we're gonna have to make conscious choices and constant conscious decisions to keep the aspects of it that we like value most. I mean, one of the one of the coolest things about troning is just like showing up to a race and you know, everybody is just you like I feel like it's like a community gathering, like you just know so many people and yeah, it's the best. And like that aspect might might change to a certain extent where we might see races get bigger and bigger and resemble more more roadrunning races. But I think like race directors and athletes and people can you know make conscious choices to keep the parts of it that we value most. So I do think it's possible for it to grow and like stay authentic and and fun. And yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think there's room for both. Yeah. I mean, I talk to a lot of people about this because you know, you hear a lot that's like a very common uh discussion with monopolization and race monopolization and things like that. I mean, I think it's very possible that we can live in a world where you can have, you know, the little mom and pop race that doesn't even have uh, you know, they just put numbers on the bibs, there's no timing chips, they're just writing the times down. I feel like that can exist, but also at the same time, we can have our UTMBs and world champs and mountain running championships and things like that. I think I think we can do both. The one thing that I find interesting is just like the anti-doping conversation, which has been brought up a lot. And it's like we're at this weird intersection in the sport where we're getting more money, more eyes, there's obvious professionalization, but the drug testing only seems to be out you know, at the races. And it's like, okay, well, even then. Yeah, and even then it's three, if you're lucky, it's three people deep. It's yeah, it's and it's it's a common conversation. So it's like, I don't know. It's interesting to me. It's funny, this is like a super sideways tangent, but I was just listening to a really good podcast with this guy, Mark Kerr. He used to be a fighter, and he was a UFC fighter back in the day. And like he was part of this sport during a time where like everybody was on steroids, everybody was on TRT, but the they looked back at that like world of their sport. Now, obviously, obviously everybody's clean, there's doping controls, it's a completely different sport, but they looked back at that time and were like, okay, that was the time that it was in. And I see cycling do that a lot too, where they look back at the Lance days where there was considerable doping and they went through this whole metamorphosis of sport, and they're like, okay, that was the time that it was in. I just hope that we don't look back at our sport one day and are like, okay, like it was kind of the wild west. We evolved from it, but like that was the time that it was in. Like, I hope that we can like get good control and like actually get like some sort of out-of-season like testing pool or something, some better thing than we have now, you know. That way we don't have to look back at the sport and be like, oh, it was a rough, rough time, you know.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean those are good points. And like I'd also definitely hope that we can, you know, learn from those historical examples and do the right thing in as as we kind of approach that point in our sport where it becomes something that we need to be concerned about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let's talk uh career. As a young gun in the sport and someone that's had like you know a lot of success so far, like how do how do you view your time in sport? Do you look at it as like a career? Like I want to do this for 10, 15, 20 years, like, or do you look at it now from like a day-to-day perspective, like every day's a gift? Like how how do you kind of like conceptualize it?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I think there's different ways to look at it. I think, you know, I definitely look at it as a career. Like throning is my favorite thing in the world, and I definitely, you know, hope to be able to do it and do it at a high level and compete at all the best races um with the best people in the world for as long as I can, you know, hopefully another 10, 15, maybe 20 years, uh, maybe longer than that. You know, hopefully there's uh a you know more of a masters uh division like there is in some track you like USATF stuff at that point, and I can just keep keep competing as an old man.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Um but I mean there's definitely also I think you have to like you have to have that vision, but you also have to have just the day-to-day, like just the day-to-day gratefulness of like you don't want to ever be caught up in thinking too much about the future like every day is indeed like a gift, and like to be able to do it and to live that dream is just like you know, that's amazing. Like it's just it's I mean, the dream is just living every day at a time, and so you have to like focus on that more than the long-term vision, and the long-term vision will will happen if you do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, on the topic of races, you've done you've raised series and all, you've raised some of the most competitive races on the planet. Is there anything that specifically calls you still? Or is it you've do you feel like, okay, now that I've raced this, I just want to get back to it and give my best at it, or is there one specific race that's like I have to get here?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a it's a great question. I think I definitely would like to race OCC or CCC at some point. I mean, I yeah, the the 50k distance has definitely been calling to me for for some time. I mean, I ran my first one at the end of my 2023, which was my first like competitive trail season. And it's just such a cool experience. Like I love Sub Ultra, but and but there's something about like you know going out there for a long race and even planning for a long race, like you just like you just like lay out all your gels and your drink mix, and you have these like spreadsheets with like where you're gonna do it. Just feel like it's just like it just feels like such a cool adventure, you know. It feels like you're going on like a Mars mission or something. Um so I definitely want to do more of that and you know keep obviously keep doing subulture stuff, but I am I am intrigued at dipping my toes in some. Longer stuff long term. And yeah, I mean, I feel like right now at least, like uh UTMB is kind of a Super Bowl of the sport. And so doing something like OCC or CCC at some point would be super cool.
SPEAKER_00:So cool. On the topic of UTMB races, I noticed last year you had thrown down at ETC, and I was super blown away by how competitive it was last year and this year. I know your teammates Dan and Remy mixed it up this year in the top 10. You got fourth last year or 2024. Yo, did that race stick out to you at all? Like it seemed like this year it got more buzz than it normally has. And I'm wondering if like maybe UTMB is gonna possibly like make a final out of that for like maybe more of the like the 20k or 15k category.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I definitely hope that they like grow that race. I mean, funny enough, last year when I ran, so last year I qualified for OCC by finishing second in Thailand, which was the um Asia Pacific major, and I like fully intended to run it, but then with you know with the injury in June, I mean there was the question of whether I was even going to be able to race in Europe at all in August. And so I ended up dropping down in distance to do ETC. Like not really, I didn't really have any like super high expectations for it. But yeah, it was like super hype and fun. And I, you know, definitely hope that UTMB invests more into it and kind of grows it so that we see more of the top athletes going there to run it. Uh, I think that would be super cool.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was cool. I mean, a lot I I use that as a huge like research point for uh like I was just blown away for the for World's Mountain Classic. Like quite a few athletes that race DTC just internationally, particularly in Europe and Spain and Italy, like also threw down and did really well DTC. And I was just like, wow, like the depth there is absolutely insane this year. So yeah, it would be cool to see them like invest in it and grow that race and just like make it a final for you know the 15, 20k or I guess the 20k distance or for whatever, um, or like a true world mountain classic final, like on an annual basis, which would be dope.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I mean I think I mean you UTMB is like I think it would be in their interest to do that. So yeah, yeah. Hopefully I hope they do.
SPEAKER_00:It'd be cool if the Pelletti's. Hey, if you're listening, by all means. Uh one more race I want to get to that you had done this year was the Rut uh VK. That was kind of was that your I would say that was your first one back before Pikes. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01:It was, yeah. And it was actually my first finish line in 51 weeks.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. That's clear.
SPEAKER_01:So because I tried to come back and race UTMB Thailand again at the end of last year, but um yeah, as soon as we started like I made it like 20 miles, but as soon as we started going down the steep downhills, it the knees started hurting, and so I had to to drop out to not like risk any like major long-term things. Uh, but yeah, super fun to be back at the the rut this year. I feel like it's I feel like it's a race that just like gets overlooked a little bit. Yeah, you know, it's like it's in Montana. Um, you know, there's maybe less, maybe a little bit less attention on it, but it's like such a fun event and race, and the you know, the race directors and the people there are just like so stoked on it and do just such a good job. I got a free mullet over there. Oh, I like it too.
SPEAKER_00:Did you get the tattoo yet?
SPEAKER_01:I did not get the tattoo, no. But I did get a free mullet.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. That's so cool. Well, you had a great finish there. You got on the podium. It's interesting, man. That that race kind of calls to me in the sense where I didn't realize this. It's the second biggest race in the United States. Like from uh trail race, I should say. Um, outs outside of Broken Arrow. But I didn't realize that either. It's because of I to me, I guess it's just because of like where it lands on the weekends wise. Like everybody's competing for prime time because people are either just getting back from UTMB or in that kind of world, or they could be in Europe, or there's other things that pop up on the calendar. So the way it's situated in the calendar makes it kind of complex to get there. And it it just uh it is such a cool race. I don't know. I'm I'm enamored by just like what they put on out there, it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, totally. Yeah, it is yeah, that September month is definitely tough in terms of there's like just so much going on, and like Golden Trail used to have like their North America World Series races in September as well. And so I was like pretty bummed about that like my first year because I was like, ah, like I really wanted to go check out the rut because I've heard like such good things. But yeah, I mean I part of me do like does wish that there was a little bit more like coordination and collaboration between like race directors to try to like have races, like big races not land on the same weekends so that like athletes can like truly go head to head at and do like a lot of these like really cool events. But I mean it it is just part of the sport, like it is kind of a wild west and like anybody can start like a competitive race series and in trail running and call it like the World Series or the or the whatever it is. Um so I think it's just I it's a part of the sport that just kind of makes me laugh and is like yeah, I think it's it's it's good, yeah. It adds to the character of the sport. And if anything, like sometimes it's nice that you can't do everything in a year because then you can switch it up more and have different experiences from season to season and year to year. But yeah, Red is a great race. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:I gotta ask you this. As someone who I would have, if you were obviously in a healthy year, I would have pegged you as an easy favorite for either the vertical or the mountain classic team, whichever cheat whatever thing you would have chosen to have raced, I would have expected you to have done well. Um is that something that's on your radar in the future for maybe 2027, is trying to get on a team USA?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, definitely. I mean, it was a huge goal this year. Like I had a procedure on my knee in March, and I mean I literally just put everything into getting back for the broken arrow VK in June. Like I initially was also gonna try to do the classic, and actually it was also gonna try to run the short the short trail. Um and then I I wasn't gonna do all three at worlds, but I I just kind of wanted I was probably gonna do two at worlds, I just kind of wanted to do those races because they're they're awesome. But yeah, I mean obviously things didn't work out and I had to get like a follow-up procedure done. But yeah, worlds is so cool and it's been amazing to watch everybody crush it over there this past week. So definitely something that my 2027 is gonna be focused on.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, this is a crazy question, but you could compete for USA, Canada, or France. Like that's kind of cool. Like, is there if you I mean this is a hyper crazy hypothetical. I mean, obviously, France I know is like super picky with the way they do their selections, and it's like kind of like a longer, significantly longer process where I feel like in US team USA you could just earn your spot, but Canada also might be, you know, if you there's you got options for 2027, man.
SPEAKER_01:I I do I do have options, yeah. And I represented the US at the 2019 World Cross Country Championships, and so but that was like over four years ago. So if I wanted to, I could uh switch. Um yeah, I have options. We'll see. I think like I like I would most likely like yeah, France is it would be kind of tough just getting to the qualifiers and like doing the selection process. Canada would definitely be uh an option, I think. Um yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, hey, yeah, you got more options than most people, so it's not not a bad thing. Um I gotta ask you this. Any takeaways from World's Weekend? Was there anything that stuck out to you that you thought was really cool or interesting? Any performances? I don't know. I I had a lot of fun covering it and just you know, kind of just keeping an eye on what was going on. I I thought it was kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I feel like the US like really showed up in like all the distances because that was you know super cool to watch like a bunch of my teammates and friends just go out and absolutely crush it. And yeah, it's I think it definitely I think every world championship just keeps getting more competitive, and I think it's exciting for the future of the sport and makes me definitely makes me excited for future worlds. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think with each one as it grows, it continues to get more popular and pop. I think Jim kind of like made it very apparent this year. He's like, I'm not really sure like what this means in the sense because like we already have a Super Bowl, but this could also be the Super Bowl. So I hope that like by the time 2027 rolls around, like we might we might have that a little bit more figured out as to like what the actual Super Bowl is in theory.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. I do think, yeah, I do think worlds has room to grow. Like, I think if you look at some of the results of some of the big UTMB races and you look at like the world's short trail and long trail, you know, I think you could make the argument that UTMB, like some of those UTMB races were more competitive and more deep. Part of that could be that you know, some people, you know, I I I know some people did UTMB and then didn't race as well as they wanted to at Worlds. Um, obviously, like that makes sense. Like you ran a really long race like about a month ago. Um, so I do, yeah, I think there is room for worlds to I I think brands need to like put more of an emphasis on it for their athletes of like when when it's a worlds year, like this is something that is like important and super cool and that we want you to do. And so I think that will be a big part of worlds becoming bigger in the future. And I think yeah, it would, it would, I think they would need to like coordinate with UTMB to it's it's interesting too because like worlds was at a different time of year back in 2023. You know, it was at the start of the summer, which you know, for better or for worse, um, in terms of schedules, um, yeah, there's a lot of things that can be worked out there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, and then you know what's good is 2027, it'll be in November. So at least that'll I think that'll make things a little bit easier for folks. I don't know, maybe people show up more tired or less tired. It just depends on like where it falls. But I think November is a good enough time to get healthy and you know, and uh after the UTMB like braces. I think one big thing, and I'll leave it on a final note after this, is like it's just like we need more brands to it, just needs to be in more contracts. Like, I think that's the big thing is the brands need to recognize it. Obviously, that's really hard because you know, mostly everybody's wearing Nike if you're on the US team. If you are, you know, like it's hard, you know. Obviously, you can wear your shoes, but we gotta figure that out. That way the brands can get behind it and support the athletes individually, and there could be more bonuses and stuff like that for it. You don't need to comment on that one, though. We can keep that between us. Um, but yeah. So, dude, I gotta say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is an amazing conversation. Uh, I'm wishing you the best of luck on your continued return to the sport and uh to competition. And uh, I can't wait to see what you're gonna do in the in the next few months, man. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. And yeah, it's so good to finally be on and having this this discussion with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can't wait for round two, man. Appreciate you. Hell yeah. Yeah. What an awesome episode. I really want to thank Mika so much for coming on the podcast and just being candid and being open and telling his story and talking about, you know, it's always fun to talk to athletes, not just about running, but about the things that you know they like to do outside of running. So I'm really appreciative of the fishing stuff and you know, just you know, him being candid and talking about himself, which was uh I really appreciate. Guys, the best way you can support Mika is to give him a follow on Instagram. Um, you can find him at the handle as well as in the show notes. That's gonna be at Mountain underscore man underscore Mika. That's Mountain underscore man underscore M-E-I-K. Give him a follow. You can also just type in Mikal M-E-I-K-A-E-L uh Boldwin B E A U D O I N hyphen uh Russo R O U S S E A U. Uh I did my best there to get my French pronunciation down. Um I need to take some French classes. I'm doing my best, guys. I'm sorry. Um yeah. So, guys, like I said, best way to support Mika is to give him a follow and uh let him know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure he would really appreciate your words of encouragement. I mean, you want to talk about someone that's just so mentally strong and to be able to battle back um after having so many false starts coming back from injury, and you want to talk about someone with so much potential and so much talent. Um, you know, this guy puts together a healthy season and he's gonna be one of the best in the world. Uh so it's pretty cool that we um, you know, we could follow someone like that and just how great he could possibly be in our sport. So definitely want to give him some support. Uh last but not least, if you guys enjoyed this episode, if you've been enjoying the podcast, uh please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcasts. Um, like I said, five-star rating or give us a review. I'd love to know what you guys like about the podcast and what you don't like. Um it would really mean a lead, yeah, it would really mean a lot to me. The feedback is really important so we can make some changes into the future. Always find some good things to make some changes on and uh yeah, go forward. Last but very not least, um, if you guys enjoyed this episode, want to support the podcast further, you can support us by going to ultimatirection.com, our brand partner, and uh check out what they have. Uh, the leading company in Hydration Solutions at the moment. Check Ultimate Direction out. They just dropped a new six-liter race vest as well as a 12-liter um ultra vest. Beautiful aesthetic colorways. They've got some great belts out there, the comfort belt as well as their race belt in a lot of different sizes and different colors, which is kind of cool. And they just dropped a new quiver for your polls, uh, which is uh pretty compatible with most vests out on the market. So definitely give those a check out. And if you do purchase anything, use code Steep StuffPod. That's one word, Steep Stuff Pod, and then I'll get you 25% off your cart. So, guys, really appreciate it. Tuning in, lots of good podcasts down the way, lots of good conversations. Um, we've got Kyle Richardson coming on later this week to talk about his uh some of his link ups that he's been doing on the bike in the Northeast, uh, amongst many other things, as well as David Hedges, who's gonna be coming on pretty soon to talk about his Nolans 14 record. So, guys, really appreciate it. Thanks so much for tuning in.
